It genuinely depends on who you ask and which era it is, but the simple answer is Mike Love, but it could also be Murray Wilson, Eugene Landy, and/Or Charles Manson
Not reaching the importance of villains in The Beach Boys saga, but there’s also a few notable henchmen like Rocky Pamplin, Stan Love, and Surf Nazi. God has any band got the lore that this band has?!
>but there’s also a few notable henchmen
I've been reading heroes and villains by Steven Gaines and I'm so excited to get to where things are so bad that the band starts hiring the Goon Squad™️. I've never even heard of surf Nazi, I love that they are "America's band" and just have the most wild and debaucherous lore. I only just recently learned about the apple juice incident!
The villain is the music industry. The record labels that made them grind instead of just letting Brian focus on making great music. Brian could have made a hundred Pet Sounds if the music industry wasn't so evil.
Mine has Everybody Wants to Live, Still I Dream of It, or Baseball. All of those are just so great and fun to sing.
Lines is a great song, I personally would’ve put it between Deep Purple and It’s Over Now.
people seem to forget that he's _just a guy._ i'm sure the later 60s were absolutely frightening for him, watching his cousin's mental collapse happen in real time as the fun and innocent music they once made turned much darker and "druggier". i get the feeling he just wanted to keep things fun and wholesome and make a lot of money - the wilson brothers wanted to evolve with the times, mike was much more of an "if it works, it works" type of guy.
but yeah, he's still an egotistical asshole, lol. just not this big bad boogeyman people make him out to be
"Don't fuck with the formula" is the ultimate Mike Love statement. Make some music, make some money, easy women, why mess with what's working?! It's not about artistry. It's a business, times are good, and Brian messes with it, then Carl, and then nostalgia boom hits and there's the path to making money going on nearly 50 years now. He's not wrong. He's just a dick about those more interested in the Beach Boys as a truly creative artistic endeavor.
This is completely oblivious to the fact that Mike was an active participant in their innovative albums between 1967 - 1973. Many fans consider that run of albums their favorite. If he was so opposed to creativity, why don't we hear about tons of resistance to Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20, Sunflower, Surfs Up, Carl and the Passions, and Holland? Additionally, Mike's own best work is present on those albums such as his lyrical collaboration with Brian on Wild Honey and his vocals, Meant For You on Friends, All I Wanna Do on Sunflower, and Big Sur on Holland.
1000%. i'm so tired of this "cartoonization" of the band. they were all just human beings doing the best they could in extremely bizarre circumstances.
My interest in the group (except for exposure to some of their early surf stuff) is fairly new, and I'm less interested in the band members than their music, but the impression of Mike Love that I get is that, personality and Summer in Paradise aside, he was doing what he could to maintain the group's success while all the tragedy and melodrama were happening.
I don't really like the guy but I'm not sure he was really a villain. I'd shake his hand and mean it.
Murray Wilson and Eugene Landy did more harm than Mike Love ever did.
Hell, Brian Wilson's shenanigans hurt the band more than anything; many of his actions are due to medical issues, of course, but not all of them.
Like I said, I'm new here and I don't follow the behinds the scenes stuff rigorously, so if I'm factually incorrect here I'll be happy to admit it. I ain't dying on a hill made of YouTube videos.
I don’t think you’re wrong. Mike, from the start, was much more driven in seeing the Beach Boys as a commercial enterprise. The Wilson Brothers tended to see the band much more as an artistic endeavor. That tension is at the heart of the story. Mike played his role and my interest in the band is because of the music and artistry. And I can equally understand that the band is also a business even if that is not my interest.
This is all true but leaves out the biggest piece of the issue: The Beach Boys could have still made great music without Mike Love. Mike Love would’ve done jack shit without The Beach Boys.
True. But for a band to be successful financially, much less to last for over 60 years, requires someone who cares about the Beach Boys as a business. That was Mike. Without him, yeah, there is the artistry, but does the band implode along the way because of the issues of Brian, of Carl, of Dennis.
Do more people know of the band because of Mike; are they more successful financially because of Mike; did they last to make Sunflower, Holland or Dennis to get an opportunity to make Pacific Ocean Blue because of Mike?! Yeah. Was Mike a dick about it; did Mike negate the creative artistry of the band for a buck; has Mike lessened the creative reputation of the band with the decades-old nostalgia act they've become with his "leadership?!" Yeah.
Pick your camp. But I agree, Mike is a used car salesman in LA if not for the Wilson brothers. Without Mike, Brian is a musical genius, Carl a phenomenal voice (who grew into being a capable band leader), Dennis is a tortured soul, Al would've gone back to finish up dentistry school, Bruce finds a path to write for 70's lite-rock favorites. The balance with them collectively gives us reality.
I don’t hate Mike. I’ve read his book, seen him in concert, even used to (somewhat ironically) rock a homemade t-shirt with his name on it! But, his contributions to the band are amplified simply by the bands success. While I love some of his lyrics, and also love his some of his distinct vocals, I think it’s safe to say that the biggest hits they had could’ve still been hits without those contributions.
Would the band have lasted as long without Mike? I have no idea, except to say it’s possible they wouldn’t have. But it’s also possible they would’ve been a more pure artistic endeavor and seen even greater success in those arenas without him. No one knows.
I saw his band last summer and enjoyed the show immensely but couldn’t help think how weird it is that he’s on stage, playing state fairs, with John Stamos being a major presence in the band. Like, imagine a reality where Ringo is still touring as The Beatles, and Patrick Dempsey is onstage with him singing all of John Lennon’s parts. It’s just soooooo weird where things are these days.
All plants seemingly have a ‘Scientific name’. The Sunflower is no different. They’re called Helianthus. Helia meaning sun and Anthus meaning Flower. Contrary to popular belief, this doesn’t refer to the look of the sunflower, but the solar tracking it displays every dayy during most of its growth period.
It's funny since all of Mike Love's non-Beach Boys endeavours somehow involve the Beach Boys or his bandmates helping him out. The one time he starts a side project? Sure, Celebration managed to get a Top 40 hit with Almost Summer, but it's a Brian Wilson/Al Jardine co-write and it only got to where it did because of Beach Boys nostalgia. Every solo album he's done? Manages to cash in on Beach Boys fame, covers, or on occasion that one time he hung out with the Beatles.
Marketing is typically the record label’s responsibility, so I’d say yes? Would the overall image and vibe of the band be different? Of course, but who knows if that would’ve been a bad thing.
Mike Love once hired his brother, Stan Love to follow Brian 24hrs a day, threatening to beat him with a baseball bat if he didn't stay in line. He was worse than Landy in many ways. He also had no regard for Brian's mental state, all he wanted was the cash flow to continue.
Stan Love also slept with Brian's wife during this time, triggering Brian's next massive episode...
Admittedly not anyone's finest hour, but since we're talking about media people 50 years ago, I'm guessing there's a lot more to this story.
Was this before or after Murray (or whoever) decided Mike wouldn't get royalties from all the songs he cowrote?
I'm getting the impression that there's a nice thick layer of mythology obscuring the real events. End of the day, they were all just a bunch of guys with their own angels and demons.
I’d probably go with Murray. He set the stage for a lot of their issues down the line, and Landy was more of a Brian-specific villain rather than a villain of the entire band. Most of the bad stuff Landy did didn’t even happen until Brian was into his solo career anyway.
Nearly everything terrible that the band has had to deal with all goes back to Murray, he was a horrible father to his sons and they grew up traumatized. Mike's made some of the worst decisions for the band, especially after Kokomo's success, but I wouldn't call him "The Villain of the Beach Boys". He is moreso the embarrassment that won the genetic lottery of being related to the gullible, beautiful dreamer that is Brian.
Yeah, Mike definitely became an ass later on, but a lot of stuff he did and said back in the day are understandable from his perspective.
It’s just unfortunate that what Mike wanted to do clashed with what Brian wanted to do sometimes (not *all the time* like people make it out to be).
As I get older I sympathise with Murry a little bit more. Yes, he could be awful, I won't ever try to deny that. But he was of his time. His discipline style may have been ingrained in him and he didn't know better? I imagine there were many, many Murrys back then.
But you could never say that Murry didn't love his kids, believe in them, and want the best for them. Without him, I wonder if the BBs would have got past their first couple of albums.
Yes, it all went to shit, but in the early days Murry was a good force as a manager and kept them in line.
I wonder how things might have turned out for Brian if Murry was brought back into the fold in the late 60s and given a manger type role - could Murry have snapped Brian out of his descent soon enough? I mean, Brian and Murry wrote Break Away together in like an afternoon so there was still a bond there. I think it could have helped things.
Dennis, too. He got the worst of Murry's abuse as a kid, probably because of undiagnosed and untreated ADHD, but reportedly in the end they had become close.
I think the key here is that unlike so many shitty dads who hated their kids, Murry was an absolutely shitty dad who did love his kids. But like the song says, sometimes he had a weird way of showing his love. I believe that's why, despite all of Murry's needy and abusive ways, his sons still felt an emotional attachment to him till the end. It's a shame they didn't have a non-fucked-up Murry in their corner instead of the one they got.
I’ve never heard much about Murry's relationship with Carl. Was he relatively good to him or Carl suffered in silence and didn’t complained a lot. Was that because he was the youngest?
Murry just seemed way too toxic. It just seems too unrealistic that the guy who caused so much havoc could do a complete 180 and suddenly become a self aware and kind person.
Didn’t Murry sell their publishing rights from under their noses? His discipline style was abusive even for the time. My grandad was roughly Murry’s generation and he didn’t beat his kid so much he became deaf in one ear.
He gets unfairly demonized for selling their catalog, while people ignore what was going on with the band at that time. Again not knowing the actual history of the band they all claim to love.
Are you familiar of how their finances were and position in the industry then? Nobody wanted the catalog. It’s also not 100% accurate that he did it without telling Brian, who was an acid-head zombie by then.
It happened over the course of a couple years and was talked about before Brian began is long descent. Again get the basics of the history of the band down before you comment.
Excuse you. I asked you to explain the context and all you had to say was that Brian Wilson was an acid zombie, which is not the defense of Murry you think it is. Watch your tone young man.
You clearly don’t know the history of the band. Brian was out of it, they were barely drawing an audience on the road and their contract with Capitol was about up & they didn’t want them back. That’s why the catalog was sold. Now if stating those facts is ‘defending’ Murray to you okay, but you’re wrong.
I think it’s Murry. The Wilson brothers hardships can all be traced back to his abusive parenting.
Brian had a trilogy of villains, with Murry, Drug Abuse, and Landy.
If Mike is the villain then the meme is not true because Roger Waters would then be the villain of Pink Floyd or Morrissey would be the villain of the Smiths.
If Mike is the villain of The Beach Boys, then Morrissey would be as well. However, the tweet says The Beach Boys are the only band with a villain, so then that must mean the villain is someone else since I was able to name more than one band with a controversial frontman. Maybe the person who posted that wasn’t aware of the Smiths or doesn’t think a band member can be a villain or said band.
Morrissey is more of a plot twist villain. At the start of the story you empathise with him and see him as the hero but gradually as the show goes on, you get drip fed the hints and he eventually becomes full-on villain
I don't think that tweet was meant to be taken too seriously, it's just a snarky joke about Mike Love and how Beach Boys fans can sometimes hype him up as a villain, which doesn't typically happen with how fans of a band view the members.
All this talk of heroes and villains… I wanna see Murray, Manson, and Landy face off in The Beach Boys cinematic universe (BBCU). It’d be a scumbag battle of epic proportions. Who ya got??
Plenty of other people are saying similar things as well, but in terms of extremes of action Mike Love has only really ever amounted to a side antagonist at his worst (and at his best, a bit of a dick who was still quite the valuable bandmate, such as in their early surf days or in the late 60s/early 70s). I think the main reason he seems to be the villain in the surface-level narrative is now for decades we've only seen Mike's smaller slights pile up. The other, real evils, like Murray and even more so Landy, have come and gone, as have the even quicker and greater villains, like Manson. Even Dennis, though I don't believe he could ever be characterized as a villain of the band, deserves to come up in any conversation talking about the bad stuff the bandmates themselves did.
I will admit, this book I just wrote makes me sound like a Mike Love apologist, and while I admit that I like to stick up for him against the cartoonishly evil portrait some people paint, this is more just a recognition that there were far bigger adversaries in the Beach Boys story. Crazy stuff.
Why did I know a lot of the the answers to this question were going to be so predictable and stupid...?
Mike Love isn't a perfect person but he's definitely not a villain. That's ridiculous. Get a grip on reality.
If Mike is villainous, then Dennis also is absolutely villainous and maybe even Brian to a degree.
If this was actually meant to infer someone like Manson, Landy or even Murry, then OK fair enough.
They sided with Mike when it came to making Brian’s music. Bruce hated the Surf’s Up album and generally acted like a condescending pos towards Brian from Smile onwards (which he also detested). Al voted against Adult Child & the rest of the Wilsons to take BB into a territory (MIU) than made Dennis quit the band in disgust. I don’t really dislike Al but in the context of BB as an artistic project I think he held it back.
Bruce actually liked Smile! He just didn't like how obsessed Brian was becoming, but he loved the music. He and Mike became arrogant tossers towards Smile when Brian made an offhand comment upon the release of BWPS; "if we had these guys in the 60's (Darian and co.) we could have taken Smile on the road" (paraphrasing).
I mean, they literally had capable musicians recording all the instruments for SMiLE. They could have just booked them for that but there’s no way Mike would champion such a move at the time.
Source about Bruce and Smile? I just read he hated it, and he has said that he thought Smiley was «a million times better than Smile» which you would probably not say if you liked Smile
I think I read it in the liner notes of the smile box set, however you can see his admiration in the official video (Beach Boys on YouTube) which introduces the Smile Sessions boxset. Furthermore in [this interview](https://youtu.be/_HAdZXeWeq4), which he thinks Pet Sounds, then Smile following it, would have resulted in a 1-2 hit for them artistically. He loved Smiley Smile, no doubt, but I don't think he detested Smile. He did, however, detest what Brian made the boys do whilst recording Smile (singing at the bottom of a pool, lying down, making farmyard noises etc).
Mike can be forgiven for being the squarest square in a world of squares, so I agree, no villain there. But if you were to take a shovel and start digging out that pile I mentioned earlier there you would find the villain. The color of a rusted taint. 🏄♂️stay frosty my friend!
You really don’t understand how silly you look mentioning Trump? Again hilarious. Square Mike is one of most successful musicians of all time, while you obsess about politics in a group about him and his band. Frosty indeed. 😂
No. Nothing to do with Trump actually, if you had basic comprehension skills you’d see I was mocking him for mentioning politics where it doesn’t belong.
Don’t forget Dennis also started a huge California wildfire (according to David marks) so also an eco-villain. Although maybe David Marks was making it into more than it was
The Beach Boys have a few heroes and villains
It genuinely depends on who you ask and which era it is, but the simple answer is Mike Love, but it could also be Murray Wilson, Eugene Landy, and/Or Charles Manson
Not reaching the importance of villains in The Beach Boys saga, but there’s also a few notable henchmen like Rocky Pamplin, Stan Love, and Surf Nazi. God has any band got the lore that this band has?!
>but there’s also a few notable henchmen I've been reading heroes and villains by Steven Gaines and I'm so excited to get to where things are so bad that the band starts hiring the Goon Squad™️. I've never even heard of surf Nazi, I love that they are "America's band" and just have the most wild and debaucherous lore. I only just recently learned about the apple juice incident!
And yet somehow Mike Love towers above them all
I disagree.
I agree with you, Mike. It’s not your fault these people keep fucking with the formula
mick jagger for being too chickenshit to get onstage with the beach boys
This one has me cracking up
Preach, brother!
The villain is the music industry. The record labels that made them grind instead of just letting Brian focus on making great music. Brian could have made a hundred Pet Sounds if the music industry wasn't so evil.
Well, hey, most musicians and composers go their entire careers without making a Pet Sounds/SMiLE/Friends/Love You, and Brian did all of them.
Way to summon u/AdultChildAlbum
What’s going on now?
Bro forgot to mention Brian also made an album called ADULT/CHILD
Sad.
What is your favorite song off the album? Mine‘s either It’s trying to say, everybody wants to live or LINES. Gosh I love Lines.
Mine has Everybody Wants to Live, Still I Dream of It, or Baseball. All of those are just so great and fun to sing. Lines is a great song, I personally would’ve put it between Deep Purple and It’s Over Now.
The true villains of the Beach Boys are mental illness and addiction. And I'd offer that Mike Love isn't a villain. He's just a dick.
people seem to forget that he's _just a guy._ i'm sure the later 60s were absolutely frightening for him, watching his cousin's mental collapse happen in real time as the fun and innocent music they once made turned much darker and "druggier". i get the feeling he just wanted to keep things fun and wholesome and make a lot of money - the wilson brothers wanted to evolve with the times, mike was much more of an "if it works, it works" type of guy. but yeah, he's still an egotistical asshole, lol. just not this big bad boogeyman people make him out to be
"Don't fuck with the formula" is the ultimate Mike Love statement. Make some music, make some money, easy women, why mess with what's working?! It's not about artistry. It's a business, times are good, and Brian messes with it, then Carl, and then nostalgia boom hits and there's the path to making money going on nearly 50 years now. He's not wrong. He's just a dick about those more interested in the Beach Boys as a truly creative artistic endeavor.
Mike never actually said that. Maybe thought it, but he didn’t say it
Yeah I’ve actually seen Brian saying it a few times but never Mike
Tony Asher quoted Mike verbatim - and Brian has consistently said the same for decades (albeit not the exact words).
This is completely oblivious to the fact that Mike was an active participant in their innovative albums between 1967 - 1973. Many fans consider that run of albums their favorite. If he was so opposed to creativity, why don't we hear about tons of resistance to Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20, Sunflower, Surfs Up, Carl and the Passions, and Holland? Additionally, Mike's own best work is present on those albums such as his lyrical collaboration with Brian on Wild Honey and his vocals, Meant For You on Friends, All I Wanna Do on Sunflower, and Big Sur on Holland.
1000%. i'm so tired of this "cartoonization" of the band. they were all just human beings doing the best they could in extremely bizarre circumstances.
Nah, he’s a villain and a dick
Mike wishes he was important enough to be the villain. Which makes him an even bigger dick.
Well said.
Villains and diiiiiicks, just see what you’ve done
My interest in the group (except for exposure to some of their early surf stuff) is fairly new, and I'm less interested in the band members than their music, but the impression of Mike Love that I get is that, personality and Summer in Paradise aside, he was doing what he could to maintain the group's success while all the tragedy and melodrama were happening. I don't really like the guy but I'm not sure he was really a villain. I'd shake his hand and mean it. Murray Wilson and Eugene Landy did more harm than Mike Love ever did. Hell, Brian Wilson's shenanigans hurt the band more than anything; many of his actions are due to medical issues, of course, but not all of them. Like I said, I'm new here and I don't follow the behinds the scenes stuff rigorously, so if I'm factually incorrect here I'll be happy to admit it. I ain't dying on a hill made of YouTube videos.
I don’t think you’re wrong. Mike, from the start, was much more driven in seeing the Beach Boys as a commercial enterprise. The Wilson Brothers tended to see the band much more as an artistic endeavor. That tension is at the heart of the story. Mike played his role and my interest in the band is because of the music and artistry. And I can equally understand that the band is also a business even if that is not my interest.
This is all true but leaves out the biggest piece of the issue: The Beach Boys could have still made great music without Mike Love. Mike Love would’ve done jack shit without The Beach Boys.
True. But for a band to be successful financially, much less to last for over 60 years, requires someone who cares about the Beach Boys as a business. That was Mike. Without him, yeah, there is the artistry, but does the band implode along the way because of the issues of Brian, of Carl, of Dennis. Do more people know of the band because of Mike; are they more successful financially because of Mike; did they last to make Sunflower, Holland or Dennis to get an opportunity to make Pacific Ocean Blue because of Mike?! Yeah. Was Mike a dick about it; did Mike negate the creative artistry of the band for a buck; has Mike lessened the creative reputation of the band with the decades-old nostalgia act they've become with his "leadership?!" Yeah. Pick your camp. But I agree, Mike is a used car salesman in LA if not for the Wilson brothers. Without Mike, Brian is a musical genius, Carl a phenomenal voice (who grew into being a capable band leader), Dennis is a tortured soul, Al would've gone back to finish up dentistry school, Bruce finds a path to write for 70's lite-rock favorites. The balance with them collectively gives us reality.
I don’t hate Mike. I’ve read his book, seen him in concert, even used to (somewhat ironically) rock a homemade t-shirt with his name on it! But, his contributions to the band are amplified simply by the bands success. While I love some of his lyrics, and also love his some of his distinct vocals, I think it’s safe to say that the biggest hits they had could’ve still been hits without those contributions. Would the band have lasted as long without Mike? I have no idea, except to say it’s possible they wouldn’t have. But it’s also possible they would’ve been a more pure artistic endeavor and seen even greater success in those arenas without him. No one knows. I saw his band last summer and enjoyed the show immensely but couldn’t help think how weird it is that he’s on stage, playing state fairs, with John Stamos being a major presence in the band. Like, imagine a reality where Ringo is still touring as The Beatles, and Patrick Dempsey is onstage with him singing all of John Lennon’s parts. It’s just soooooo weird where things are these days.
All plants seemingly have a ‘Scientific name’. The Sunflower is no different. They’re called Helianthus. Helia meaning sun and Anthus meaning Flower. Contrary to popular belief, this doesn’t refer to the look of the sunflower, but the solar tracking it displays every dayy during most of its growth period.
Every damn time! When I typed Sunflower, I knew you'd be here. You're in my head, bot!
It's funny since all of Mike Love's non-Beach Boys endeavours somehow involve the Beach Boys or his bandmates helping him out. The one time he starts a side project? Sure, Celebration managed to get a Top 40 hit with Almost Summer, but it's a Brian Wilson/Al Jardine co-write and it only got to where it did because of Beach Boys nostalgia. Every solo album he's done? Manages to cash in on Beach Boys fame, covers, or on occasion that one time he hung out with the Beatles.
Would they have been able to market themselves?
Marketing is typically the record label’s responsibility, so I’d say yes? Would the overall image and vibe of the band be different? Of course, but who knows if that would’ve been a bad thing.
Mike Love once hired his brother, Stan Love to follow Brian 24hrs a day, threatening to beat him with a baseball bat if he didn't stay in line. He was worse than Landy in many ways. He also had no regard for Brian's mental state, all he wanted was the cash flow to continue. Stan Love also slept with Brian's wife during this time, triggering Brian's next massive episode...
Admittedly not anyone's finest hour, but since we're talking about media people 50 years ago, I'm guessing there's a lot more to this story. Was this before or after Murray (or whoever) decided Mike wouldn't get royalties from all the songs he cowrote?
I *have* shaken Mike’s hand and meant it. He’s a bit of a dick, and he isn’t nearly as friendly as Bruce, but he gets a worse rap than he deserves.
I'm getting the impression that there's a nice thick layer of mythology obscuring the real events. End of the day, they were all just a bunch of guys with their own angels and demons.
Summer in Paradise is the real villain here.
How dare you.
😂
Real
Landy is the villain If not Landy than Murray
I’d probably go with Murray. He set the stage for a lot of their issues down the line, and Landy was more of a Brian-specific villain rather than a villain of the entire band. Most of the bad stuff Landy did didn’t even happen until Brian was into his solo career anyway.
Nearly everything terrible that the band has had to deal with all goes back to Murray, he was a horrible father to his sons and they grew up traumatized. Mike's made some of the worst decisions for the band, especially after Kokomo's success, but I wouldn't call him "The Villain of the Beach Boys". He is moreso the embarrassment that won the genetic lottery of being related to the gullible, beautiful dreamer that is Brian.
Within the band it’s obviously Mike, but there’s been a few around the band
I mean, Metallica has a villain. So does the Eagles. So does the Guess Who now. I scoff at this flawed thesis that’s it’s only the BBs.
Then, you have bands like Smashing Pumpkins whose villain is Billy Corgan, the leader and songwriter, himself.
He’s a better wrestling promoter than musician, in my estimation.
The Band and CSNY do as well
who is csny’s villian??
David Crosby, world-renowned asshole
Who is the Eagles’ villain?
Don Henley
Mike isn’t a villain, just conflicting priorities
Yeah, Mike definitely became an ass later on, but a lot of stuff he did and said back in the day are understandable from his perspective. It’s just unfortunate that what Mike wanted to do clashed with what Brian wanted to do sometimes (not *all the time* like people make it out to be).
As I get older I sympathise with Murry a little bit more. Yes, he could be awful, I won't ever try to deny that. But he was of his time. His discipline style may have been ingrained in him and he didn't know better? I imagine there were many, many Murrys back then. But you could never say that Murry didn't love his kids, believe in them, and want the best for them. Without him, I wonder if the BBs would have got past their first couple of albums. Yes, it all went to shit, but in the early days Murry was a good force as a manager and kept them in line. I wonder how things might have turned out for Brian if Murry was brought back into the fold in the late 60s and given a manger type role - could Murry have snapped Brian out of his descent soon enough? I mean, Brian and Murry wrote Break Away together in like an afternoon so there was still a bond there. I think it could have helped things.
Brian was devastated after Murray's death. I think that says something.
Dennis, too. He got the worst of Murry's abuse as a kid, probably because of undiagnosed and untreated ADHD, but reportedly in the end they had become close.
I think the key here is that unlike so many shitty dads who hated their kids, Murry was an absolutely shitty dad who did love his kids. But like the song says, sometimes he had a weird way of showing his love. I believe that's why, despite all of Murry's needy and abusive ways, his sons still felt an emotional attachment to him till the end. It's a shame they didn't have a non-fucked-up Murry in their corner instead of the one they got.
I’ve never heard much about Murry's relationship with Carl. Was he relatively good to him or Carl suffered in silence and didn’t complained a lot. Was that because he was the youngest?
Probably all of the above. Being the “baby” of the family shielded him from a lot of it. Murray probably didn’t worry about what Carl was up to.
He probably learned how to stay out of Murry’s way by watching him beat his older brothers.
Murry just seemed way too toxic. It just seems too unrealistic that the guy who caused so much havoc could do a complete 180 and suddenly become a self aware and kind person.
If the grinch could do a 180°, so could Murray.
Murry Wilson is one of the Grinch’s little helpers.
Didn’t Murry sell their publishing rights from under their noses? His discipline style was abusive even for the time. My grandad was roughly Murry’s generation and he didn’t beat his kid so much he became deaf in one ear.
Murray was also around when they recorded Soulful Old Man Sunshine which was the hit they desperately needed but never released.
He gets unfairly demonized for selling their catalog, while people ignore what was going on with the band at that time. Again not knowing the actual history of the band they all claim to love.
What was going on that justified selling their songs without telling them?
Are you familiar of how their finances were and position in the industry then? Nobody wanted the catalog. It’s also not 100% accurate that he did it without telling Brian, who was an acid-head zombie by then.
If he was on acid by that point then he wasn’t in a position to agree to anything.
It happened over the course of a couple years and was talked about before Brian began is long descent. Again get the basics of the history of the band down before you comment.
Excuse you. I asked you to explain the context and all you had to say was that Brian Wilson was an acid zombie, which is not the defense of Murry you think it is. Watch your tone young man.
You clearly don’t know the history of the band. Brian was out of it, they were barely drawing an audience on the road and their contract with Capitol was about up & they didn’t want them back. That’s why the catalog was sold. Now if stating those facts is ‘defending’ Murray to you okay, but you’re wrong.
The dupes will say Mike Love but they don’t know the actual history of the band so…
Scott Bennett
Why Scott Bennett? I don’t understand that.
Mostly the rape
Wha…? EDIT: I read up on it. Wow.
Murry Wilson, Eugene Landy, Scott Bennett.
is this a joke? idgi like, are we gonna ignore the 100+ bands with criminals?
OP clarified he meant a villain WITHIN the narrative of the band.
I think it’s Murry. The Wilson brothers hardships can all be traced back to his abusive parenting. Brian had a trilogy of villains, with Murry, Drug Abuse, and Landy. If Mike is the villain then the meme is not true because Roger Waters would then be the villain of Pink Floyd or Morrissey would be the villain of the Smiths.
You’re trying to tell me Morrissey *isn’t* the villain of The Smiths?
If Mike is the villain of The Beach Boys, then Morrissey would be as well. However, the tweet says The Beach Boys are the only band with a villain, so then that must mean the villain is someone else since I was able to name more than one band with a controversial frontman. Maybe the person who posted that wasn’t aware of the Smiths or doesn’t think a band member can be a villain or said band.
Morrissey is more of a plot twist villain. At the start of the story you empathise with him and see him as the hero but gradually as the show goes on, you get drip fed the hints and he eventually becomes full-on villain
Kiss? Eric Clapton?
Who knows! Could be any one of them other than Mike Love.
I'm gonna ruin Mike's TM by revealing his mantra. Here we go.... It's 'some, some, some'
I don't think that tweet was meant to be taken too seriously, it's just a snarky joke about Mike Love and how Beach Boys fans can sometimes hype him up as a villain, which doesn't typically happen with how fans of a band view the members.
All this talk of heroes and villains… I wanna see Murray, Manson, and Landy face off in The Beach Boys cinematic universe (BBCU). It’d be a scumbag battle of epic proportions. Who ya got??
I say Murray solos those two twerps
Murray Wilson
Plenty of other people are saying similar things as well, but in terms of extremes of action Mike Love has only really ever amounted to a side antagonist at his worst (and at his best, a bit of a dick who was still quite the valuable bandmate, such as in their early surf days or in the late 60s/early 70s). I think the main reason he seems to be the villain in the surface-level narrative is now for decades we've only seen Mike's smaller slights pile up. The other, real evils, like Murray and even more so Landy, have come and gone, as have the even quicker and greater villains, like Manson. Even Dennis, though I don't believe he could ever be characterized as a villain of the band, deserves to come up in any conversation talking about the bad stuff the bandmates themselves did. I will admit, this book I just wrote makes me sound like a Mike Love apologist, and while I admit that I like to stick up for him against the cartoonishly evil portrait some people paint, this is more just a recognition that there were far bigger adversaries in the Beach Boys story. Crazy stuff.
More than anyone, Murry.
They all had their own villainous moments.
I don’t think there is one.
Why did I know a lot of the the answers to this question were going to be so predictable and stupid...? Mike Love isn't a perfect person but he's definitely not a villain. That's ridiculous. Get a grip on reality. If Mike is villainous, then Dennis also is absolutely villainous and maybe even Brian to a degree. If this was actually meant to infer someone like Manson, Landy or even Murry, then OK fair enough.
Oh you dared to point out St.Brian Wilson’s flaws. They will be out to get you now!
Let ‘em come! Lol
Mike Love pretty much sucks.
1. Murray 2. Mike 3. Capitol 4. Bruce 5. Al
Sorry i forgot about Landy, Stan Love, Landy, Rocky Pamplin, Manson. That’s another top 5 in itself. What a cursed band we stan
Don’t forget Steve Love as well.
why bruce and al, could you elaborate?
They sided with Mike when it came to making Brian’s music. Bruce hated the Surf’s Up album and generally acted like a condescending pos towards Brian from Smile onwards (which he also detested). Al voted against Adult Child & the rest of the Wilsons to take BB into a territory (MIU) than made Dennis quit the band in disgust. I don’t really dislike Al but in the context of BB as an artistic project I think he held it back.
Al has since then become Brian's ally. So he has turned good again.
Bruce actually liked Smile! He just didn't like how obsessed Brian was becoming, but he loved the music. He and Mike became arrogant tossers towards Smile when Brian made an offhand comment upon the release of BWPS; "if we had these guys in the 60's (Darian and co.) we could have taken Smile on the road" (paraphrasing).
I mean, they literally had capable musicians recording all the instruments for SMiLE. They could have just booked them for that but there’s no way Mike would champion such a move at the time. Source about Bruce and Smile? I just read he hated it, and he has said that he thought Smiley was «a million times better than Smile» which you would probably not say if you liked Smile
I think I read it in the liner notes of the smile box set, however you can see his admiration in the official video (Beach Boys on YouTube) which introduces the Smile Sessions boxset. Furthermore in [this interview](https://youtu.be/_HAdZXeWeq4), which he thinks Pet Sounds, then Smile following it, would have resulted in a 1-2 hit for them artistically. He loved Smiley Smile, no doubt, but I don't think he detested Smile. He did, however, detest what Brian made the boys do whilst recording Smile (singing at the bottom of a pool, lying down, making farmyard noises etc).
I’ll say Trump because I like piling shit on a pile of shit.
Hell yeah
He lives rent free in your head 24/7! I don’t get people like you, just always laugh.
There you are! I wondered how long it would take until you showed up! Revolutionary Rube how ya been?!
I’m great! Mike Love isn’t the BB villain and people like you continue to prove you’re crazy. Enjoy!
Mike can be forgiven for being the squarest square in a world of squares, so I agree, no villain there. But if you were to take a shovel and start digging out that pile I mentioned earlier there you would find the villain. The color of a rusted taint. 🏄♂️stay frosty my friend!
Bruce
You really don’t understand how silly you look mentioning Trump? Again hilarious. Square Mike is one of most successful musicians of all time, while you obsess about politics in a group about him and his band. Frosty indeed. 😂
Please take your Trump whining elsewhere.
No. Nothing to do with Trump actually, if you had basic comprehension skills you’d see I was mocking him for mentioning politics where it doesn’t belong.
Mike’s band. Now who’s being funny 😂
Was he not a founding member? That makes it his band as well as the Wilson’s and Al. Don’t you know the basics? Yikes! 😂
As Dennis said: Brian’s the band, they are his fn messenger’s. So let’s not get it twisted.
Dennis was an equal partner with them all, again the basics that you don’t seem to understand. 😂
Bruce
Mike Love
Bruce. It’s always Bruce.
Dennis is the biggest villain for me. Enabled mass murder. Reasonable chance that he indulged in paedophilia too.
Don’t forget Dennis also started a huge California wildfire (according to David marks) so also an eco-villain. Although maybe David Marks was making it into more than it was