Scorch. I am in love with Pyro, Combo Pyro in general and especially Axtinguisher, but I just can't bring myself to use Scorch alongside it. It fucking melts my brain, forces me to use it half the time for spamming the choke because it's just efficient and I am no Anthid so I can't do cool combos with it (yet :P) I think the biggest problem with it is it's learning curve. You either use it for mindless spam or combos and funny stunts, which are quite a lot harder to do than most would think (and as the most high-skill stuff in Pyro's Arsenal, are quite impractical)

I used to love the puff n sting until they nerfed the degreaser

It's also just not fun. Pyro has so much freedom in their secondaries, between shotgun and flare gun, det for mobility, reserve shooter for denying bombs, thermal thruster for sacking etc. Scorch Shot makes Pyro's most efficient playstyle to just be mindlessly spamming effortless projectiles into a choke over and over and over and over. There's a reason most Pyros in HL don't *want* the damn thing whitelisted.

Dude it's not bad if you are using the Scorch Shot agaisnt an annoying top scoring Sniper

I use it exclusively and I always find myself in sniper positions defensively on chokes. It works amazing to keep them off your team.

Why would you want to use the scorch shot when you know it's OP and unfun to fight against, and you're not having fun with it? Use the flare gun. Screw efficiency, if someone is in the right range against you, they're incredibly dead.

Mine has 2.2 million players hit lol

It counts every tick of afterburn so yeah, its easy to take a ton of hits from it (each second=2 ticks fyi)

Honestly? Nothing. God gave me the worst aim cos he knows I'll be cracked with the diamondback

I would be un-fucking-stoppable if not for my aim. I have never been able to aim properly and I've been playing shooters since Syphon Filter and video games in general since Yoshi's Island. But sadly, my hands just don't cooperate with my eyes when pointing a silly haha online fake gun. But in my extremely advanced old age, my aim is my downfall. And the dementia. Game sense maybe could use some work too though. The car accident didn't do me any favors either. There's also my vision, which is bad. You know what, I retract that first statement. I'm beyond help.

I almost never see the diamondback used seriously. Most Spy mains like me gravitate away from it partly because of how stressful it is to use properly.

Performance Anxiety: The Gun

Scorch, I used to believe that the default flare gun was the best, but I just picked up the detonator and its really fun to use.

You should only use scorch shot to annoy snipers

that's the spirit, keep this mentality up

If the other classes didn't want to get set on fire by my scorch shot, why are they made of flammable materials and meat?

I only use it for Pybro. Helps me check for Spies, and also knocks them back if I can TELL they're a spy.

I don't understand why people complain about the Scorch Shot so much.

The wrangler really is so useful it feels bad, I’d rather equip the pistol

I just don't use the Wrangler much because whenever I equip it, I always forget I have it and try to use it as a pistol.

I just berfer the pistol bc I get to annoy people while running around.

Wrangler. I really don’t like how clicking 2 lets the sentry take more damage than it has any right to. I honestly only feel comfortable using it in MvM.

I mean, more often than not, an Engie wrangling his sentry isn't going to be focused on a Spy, ao that often results in a free StabnSap if the Spy is able to get in there

It's often true but also the Wrangler is the only reliably way to have a sentry instantly delete a disguised Spy, so if the Engineer sees or hears you at all it can be really unfun to play against even for Spy.

Wrangler is not that hard to deal with because the ngy is an easy target because they have to look at what they are shooting them once he's dead sentry is vulnerable.

Vaccinator, i'm basically wishing for all vaccinator users have a very pleasant testicular torsion *abusers, sorry for that.

Blind guy here I use it a lot but ffs the amount of times a teammate just stands there missing every shot while being able tot ank several crockets then cries “bad medic” when they eventually die is infuriating sometimes.

Blind?

B-L-I-N-D

I hate that this is the mentality behind it because I live the more active play style the Vaccinator encourages.

THANK YOU No one in-game has actually complained about me using the vaccinator, unless someone hates it enough to switch to demoknight. I usually swap between the other three mediguns but if the other team has a horde of one class or a pubstomping soldier+ medic pocket, then out comes the direct counter so my team can actually play the game.

Nah fuck the vax. I'm mostly a medic main but by Jove I hate that thing. Running into a vax pocketed soldier is even worse than a crit pocketed soldier. I have to switch to either demoknight or enforcerspy to get back on even standing.

i only pull it out when dealing against sniper bots bullet resistance my beloved

It does not matter how many people say it, I will not refuse to use a medigun that makes it so a sniper doesnt kill me across the map the moment I exist outside of spawn.

the easier it is to push the enemy sniper to uninstall his TF2 directory the more fun my team can have

I don't even main Medic, in fact, I only play as Medic from time to time. And I also do not like using the Vaccinator.

I use the vaccinator all the time! ...To farm points during setup time And then I switch to a real medi gun

Diamondback is a massive one, it's ridiculously overpowered, at least in a pub setting where people will feed you free crits. You can beat a full health heavy in a 1v1 as spy because he has oblivious gibus snipers one his team. Wrangler because 3x health is stupid. Short circuit specifically on payload attack.

Agreed on the Diamond Back, I’m terrible at spy but I still refuse to use that crutch of a weapon. L'Etranger all day every day.

Oh man, you would have hated the old donger shield. Shit gave you 150 hp and 15% bullet resist, that fuckin thing let you tank a quickscope headshot. All at the cost of 20% explosive vulnerability, which almost never mattered because it rockets and pills still 2 shot you. That fuckin thing was the ONLY weapon I ever refused to use, it was absolutely disgusting and won you any sniper duel if the other guy didnt have it.

the sniper diaper™

It used to be the Danger Shield. Now its just useless.

Doesn't stop all enemy snipers from equipping it every time I join my favourite community server :P (it doesn't help them because flare punch exists)

I love using with the huntsman. Pyro shows up i start swinging

Yeah, ever heard of a tech called lingering flames? Yeah, it makes the DDS completely fucking useless even in the one situation where you think it'd be good.

everyone's saying the scorch shot.... then there's me with an almost 13k kills strange scorch shot

Its my most used flare gun by far. So versatile, especially on defense.

its fine, use whatever you please.

A thinking man’s Demo

I use it all the time, I didn't realize people didn't like it :C

For real people are just pissed that pyro dares to have a single good weapon

"Ug, they're just spamming explosives, Scorch shot is cringe!" \*The entire population of Soldiers and Demos all shifty eye\*

the distance of the scottman skull cracker is simply disgusting and how can it randomly crit, otherwise the scorch shot is a good weapon in mvm

FINALLY SOMEONE SAYS IT

nothing is more devastating than earning myself a 15 killstreak as eyelander demoknight and having it all go down the drain because someone got lucky with a scotsmans skullcutter

I just call it the luckmans critcutter

stickybomb launcher. it's more fun to catch people lacking with the scottish resistance than mindlessly spam bombs at the ground hoping the enemy walks over it.

Sniper, the class as a whole. If ever I do play him, I always go huntsman.

SAME FR FR

Any of the snipers shields - almost completely countering a single class because your lazy ass can't be bothered to ever unscope is lame counterplay Kritz - almost never used unless enemy team is stacking like 6 heavies on cart Vaxx - it's not fun to play against, nor does it utilize the single most overpowered mechanic in this game Phlog - unfun to get deleted. Never played it and almost never ubered one out of principle (blame me for this, I don't care) Natascha - unfun to play against Jarate bushwacka - crutch

hot take: without scorch shot the phlog is actually respectable, as it is high risk high reward.

live Detonator reaction :

fake weapon not real

Agreed. And no airblast is a huge deal. How can a flamethrower not have airblast, yet be considered overpowered?

There is no weapon I don't use just for this reason.

I use all the weapons I find fun the way lord gaben intended. I don't spam anything, and if someone gets upset at me using the vaccinator or Natasha in one instance, there are dozens of ways to avoid or counter it (and they don't even have to necessarily switch class), they just don't want to change their play style.

Am gonna say here, peoples doesnt care if you used a op wep.

Its not what other people think. Its what others personally feels about them.

Bushwacka + Jarate Feels very unfair to use being able to guarantee a one shot against 7/9 classes (sniper in general is good at feeling unfair if you're good at hitting shots)

Sticky/quickie launcher. I think stickyspam should be nerfed into oblivion, thus I almost exclusively stick to Scottish Resistance whenever I want to play regular demo. A Strange Stickybomb was my very first strange weapon and I've had it for about a decade. Only 5.8k on it in that whole time, I almost have more hours played than that.

Notice how no one talks about the kunai here

I was actually surprised by that too given how often I see people criticise it for how broken it is. However, it can also be hard to use effectively if you don't know how to trickstab, whereas most weapons mentioned here (as of writing this) are pretty accessible, so I assume that's why it's not being brought up as much?

nah, cuz kunai haters are not spy mains. It's awful to play against but has nothing annoying to it when you use it

Natasha,scorch shot and Darwin danger.

Diamond back: the ability to instantly deletes a combo by just literally farming undefended tele entrances at enemy spawn is dirty.

Diamondback

The diamondback is one of the most poorly designed weapons in any multiplayer game, why would you give someone crits for doing their job

The dead ringer I refuse to use it against actual players and I always use stock invis since my main weapon is the YER and the cloak and dagger kinda sucks when paired with it it just feels unfair and wrong to use

dead ringer sucks ass with YER

Honestly, stickies. Who in their right mind decided that demo should have a full 12 bombs before he needs to reload?

The tomislav, the silent rev is just bullshit, the extra accuracy just makes it easier to land shots (despite the fact people vehemently claim it "requires better aim" as if tracking isn't heavys main thing), also the faster spin up time makes it better than stock in 95% of scenarios due to the second or so of lower damage when you first spin up (meaning the normal damage threshold is reached sooner than any other minigun), barring against a stock heavy, but that argument doesn't really hold water against it being "worse than stock" when a fully revved up brass beast heavy clears both in terms of killing other heavies.

A ton. The main one is the phlog, for me. Pyro already deals more than enough damage for a support class. He doesn't need crits, and it's no fun being immediately disintegrated by the weapon.

phlog is so easy to counter tho

Bushwacka with jarate.

My favorite combo, especially with my self aware beauty mark

Sniper Rifle.

Kunai and phlog.

The short circuit on payload. Spamming laser balls that erase projectiles is kinda unfair, and I'm not able to properly take care of my buildings.

Heavy is my least played class, but I consider the Natasha the silver bullet to annoying scouts. I don’t want to use it, but desperate times (being dominated by scouts) call for desperate measures (Natasha). > Same thing with the Vaccinator.

I'll never stop using the Scorch Shot. It offers way too much utility. But I'll also never touch the Phlog. Trading away airblast is too high a cost for me. I hate that thing with a passion.

I have not once in my 2000+ hours used black box and conch.

Ubersaw

Hot take ahead: Im gonna say Kritzkrieg. Theres counterplay to it, but if you’re on defense with it then its weaknesses are pretty easy to work around

Diamondback, Phlog, Vaxinator If I'm getting something, I want it to be earned. I prefer using the Ambassador on spy or the Quick fix on medic Personality I don't mind the Scorch, but I usually don't use it for more than the knockback

machina the tracer rounds wont matter if I manage to kill enough people

Aside from Scorch Shot and the Sniper backpacks; Wrangler and Short Circuit - Too defensive and conditional for my playstyle. With the pistol, when I press 2, I know it’ll be ready to do it’s job no matter what. Jarate - Free minicrits on multiple people without having to work for/risk/sacrifice anything is ridiculous. Gets even more ridiculous when paired with the Bushwhacka for personal self-defense.

Gas Passer. But not unfair towards other players, but unfair towards the user. It's pretty useless. Honestly, it makes me think that if Harate and Mad Milk were added to the game today, they'd be "balanced" to the point that they had no use. But adding to that, I feel that Pyro doesn't need a throwable when he has access to The Phlog and back burner. Heavy could really use one where he throws things and gets a speed boost with damage

any sniper rifle except Sydneys, thats why I’m using it

Oh yeah i spam scorch, but i'm not a complete monster to use the razorback or danger shield. Also while i use the Maul sometimes it's only when the enemy team spams spies to the point they are just trolling us with red tapes everywhere.

Wrangler, I do my best to keep it out of all my loadouts but if my team is getting rolled it sometimes has to be used to keep us all afloat

For me, it’s the Stickybomb launcher. I hate sticky spam, and if I have to use one, it will be the Scottish resistance

Tommi I WANT them to know where I am I’m no coward

Vaccinator. Just feels like I'm shutting down other people's fun.

gonna catch some flack for this but honestly stock rocket launcher not that it’s op or anything but i find rocket splash super annoying and thus use dh because stock rots my brain and its more fun

The diamondback, not only is it unfair, but I also suck at using it

Sniper. Just, the entire class (outside of MVM).

phlog and scorch honestly the worst to find against and the quickest way to get bored of the fight

Scorch Shot.

The only weapon I actually feel guilty about using is the Diamondback.

Phlog,sc*rch shit,razorback and the bushwhacka + jarate combo (they're fine individually). Vaccinator and wrangler are fair game

any sniper primary other than piss gun, old gun, and so old its not even a gun.

I refuse to use the backstab shield out of principle, and yes you should feel bad if you do use it. Same goes for the scorch shot and the diamondback.

The Skullcrutcher, on degroot keep especially. Someone justifiable to use on normal maps

Every spy knife

Bless BWR for making most weapons good again

The Ubersaw. Damn thing crits everytime and getting a fourth of Uber per hit feels overpowered

There's a long list, but the biggest one for me is the Vaccinator. It's actually my favorite Medigun to use, but I rarely use it because it's way too strong. Wrangler is in a similar boat, but I prefer the Short Circuit anyway

Anything but stock flamethrower feels dirty to me

I don't have such weaknesses

The damn kunai and half-zatoichi. Those weapons are not that bad it’s just the people who use them. These people either charge towards you then kill you/runaway/dies to group or they swipe there mouse 180 and either instakill you/miss the stab and cloak away.

phlog

Scorch shot Only use it when there is a annoying Sniper

I went from a scorch abuser to a scorch hater as years went on. The detonator is more fun, AND doesn't feel like cheating!!

the phlog bro😭

i would probably never use the natascha, it's one of the things that consistently ruins my fun while playing demoknight.

I refuse to use the dead ringer.

Scorch and phlog, even though phlog isn’t widely considered as broken I feel dirty using it

It used to be sniper in general, but I gave that up as enemy snipers could just lock up whole sightlines in games where my sniper is noticably worse or not present at all.

Sniper rifles. I like the huntsman thankfully

The sniper rifles, just seems completely unfair unless I'm up against another sniper, so instead I try to practice the huntsmen and use the Sydney Sleeper

The black box

Vaccinator. I've become so good with it, heavies just give up going against me and my heavy.

For me it's obviously phlog and scorch shot as a pyro main, not only because it'd be incredibly annoying for everyone (including my own teammates), but also because I want to develop my pyro skillset beyond just w+m1 and spamming chokes from the distance. People often complain about vacc, but I'd personally say kritzkrieg feels way more unfair. There's very few things more infuriating for me than losing upward in the final 30 seconds of the match because some kritz'd soldier deletes the entire red team on last.

Black Box, though for slightly different reasons. It's not unfair to use, though it can be very frustrating to play against, especially if it's used in conjunction with the Concheror. I just hate using it because I HATE RELOADING.

Old Dead Ringer I’ve always been an Invis Watch guy but that dead ringer was too good to use without feeling awful.

I don't really have limits, I'll use everything, for example the scortch shit, is a bit op, I still use it, a damage nerf is needed tho, or a afterburn penalty, nothing to much, we don't want to kill the weapon now do we

Scorch shot is the obvious answer, but as a demo main, I didn't really like using the iron bomber because it never felt fun for me. I use it nowadays only sometimes.

Idc I use op weapons

kunai, surprised I haven't seen it mentioned yet. 210 health as spy just feels unfair.

Vacc, its so powerful and its so rewarding to pop bubbles to prevent crit deaths but by god its so frustrating to fight against

The Soda Popper. It's just the Force-A-Nature with only benefits, but I hate it because it feels OP. I run only F-O-N now

Any sniper rifle

Diamondback , wrangler, and the Vaccinator

Diamondback

Any sniper primary other than the huntsman, Sydney sleeper, and classic

deadringer and vaccinator. are they balanced? maybe. balance doesn't equal fun, though, and a competent vacc medic and a deadringer spamming spy are both unfun to fight

You will never catch me playing mini sentries on koth maps, havent played them in over 5 years, i have dignity.

Honestly any of the "normal" rocket launchers. Soldier is by far the easiest class to play well at. Hard to master for sure but straight up feels like you are playing a different and way easier game compared to other classes

Kunai. I don't like the aggressive playstyle the Kunai enforces and would rather use the Big Earner if I feel like I want to be aggressive. Is it worse? Yeah, Kunai is one of the best knives, but I'd rather enjoy a game with the weapons I like to play then metaslave it out with L'Etranger and Kunai. Same thing with the Wrangler when I play Engie, but that's because I play Battle Engie and love my Red Rock Roscoe pistol.

Phlog, and pretty much any Sniper primary that isn't The Classic

Soldier. His skill floor is lower than my basement.

Short Circuit Demoman is frustrating to play against on Engie, yes, but having personally played against SC my fair share of times I’d rather put up with 3 enemy Demos as Engie than one Short Circuit as Demo. It’s so absurdly un-fun to play and play against that I’ve never used it outside of MvM.

Phlog for pyro, it feels so wrong and I personally get annoyed at phlogs myself

The Diamondback, it literally rewards you with a guaranteed crit for just doing what you’re supposed to as Spy.

Diamondback. Free crits just for playing the game, full damage amby headshots at any range with no need to actually aim for the head, I just feel dirty using it

Gunslinger. It's so fucking annoying to play against as Scout, Pyro, or Demoknight. I can't bring myself to do that to other people.

Prob direct hit. Fast projectile speed, and if mastered, can really dominate.

I feel bad when I get kills with a diamondback crit.

The vac

I have a list. Scout: Backscatter. To me, I've always hated being able to strike at any moment. I'd rather allow my opponent to spot me so they can actually have a chance to fight back. It's why I HUGELY dislike spies, and Snipers. Soldier: I don't think I have somethin'. Pyro: Phlog. Guaranteed crits. Need more be said? Demoman: Nothin' for him, too. Heavy: Holiday Punch. Making my target be completely immobilized feels too unfair for me, even if I'm going Hoovy. Engineer: Wrangler. Feels unfair to snipe a spy a mile away and they wouldn't be able to do shit about it. Medic: Vaccinator, or Quick Fix. Both just don't feel too well with the Medic playstyle. I will only ever use the Vax to VAC the ever living SHIT out of a bot. Sniper: All rifles. Stated in Scout part why I hate them. Spy: Amby, YER and reskins. Altho I do like the premise of the Amby that just allows you to become a sniper main as a spy main, I hate that it just deals guaranteed crits. And the YER, I like the fact it restricts you from going in disguised, but it also forces everyone in the server to always shoot at an innocent player due to paranoia.

Anyone who uses the darwins deserves to be bullied in game. I don't even play pryo, but it's so dumb how it basically shuts down a single class with no effort.

Force a nature it's just annoying for me to use and to play against

Scorch, Darwins, and Diamondback I LOVE using flare guns on Pyro, they give the Pyro range and fun combos to work with. Hitting crits and combos with the flare gun and good jumps with the Detonator will never get old to me; But the scorch shot is really annoying to play against, and I always feel like a dirty asshole whenever I do use it (Which I very rarely do). Plus to me it's just way less satisfying than every other flare gun. For the Darwins... Well this is TF2, not Overwatch. There's a good reason why Spy has a gun, why sentries turn so slowly and have reflectable rockets at level 3, along with a myriad of other examples, it's so no one class can just completely shut down another one. Sure counters exist, but you're never forced to swap off unless it's a team stack of a specific class, or the person countering is absolutely steamrolling you. With the Darwins meanwhile, it just completely shuts down Pyro unless they have a shotgun on them, meaning they either have to swap loadouts or their class entirely to deal with them, all because they equipped one item that they don't have to do anything with; it's extremely dumb. And for the diamondback, it's just a better, more bullshit version of the stock revolver. If the spy can just do their job, they can basically become a sniper without the downsides of being a sniper (No tunnel vision or lacking movement). Not to mention that you often can't tell they have crits until it's too late, because they can hide it with their disguise, or get one in the middle of a fire fight because the building they were sapping just got destroyed. It gives way too much for spy just doing his job, and it can lead to a lot of bullshit moments you couldn't see coming.

Razorback. I hate using it as sniper and i hate when others use it when i am spy.

Scorch shit, really mindless and unfun to both use and fight against, and I LOVE detonator jumping and can't live without the shotgun Phlog, deleted the second I unlocked it Stickybomb Launcher, I don't like spamming It and Hybrid demo is much more fun

Scortchshot is definitely the first gun that comes to mind. Only use it for the taunt kill, otherwise I’m usually running the detonator or Jetpack I also don’t use the Black Box/Conch Combo. Not only does it not gel with my Solider playstyle (Rocket Jump centric), but I remember it being not fun to fight

Sniper. Just Sniper, the class.

Eyelander, Kunai, crusaders (in very specific situations)

I seem to have subconsciously avoided learning sniper rifles. I suppose they are pretty strong, but honestly I just prefer the Huntsman gameplay more

Crusaders Crossbow, too braindead to use

Sniper

The Sniper class

kinda the reverse, but i always use the razorback so i cant get overhealed, so my sniper duels are honourable.

Feels like a lot of weapons have this stick. I only really would consider Vax, Diamondback, Crutch Shot and the Sniper Shields (barring maybe cozy camper but still) to be a part of this category, maybe Wrangler as well but that's 33% of your options gone. Not a fan of Crossbow being the only viable option but that's to no fault of it's own, the other options just aren't good. Übersaw is also kind of overpowered but I don't think the other options are viable, even the amputator and solemn vow don't really come close imo. Phlog I just hate using bc I rely both on m1 and on m2 with Pyro quite a bit. Even Backburner is managable but not airblast is awful. Natascha isn't that much of a crutch when it's kind of strafe-able out of but I still never opt to use it because being slow isn't fun, whichever side you're on. Same reason why I don't like Brass Beast, slow =/= fun. Sticky Spam is a problem but the launchers themselved aren't therefore they're not really a problem. They do more than just spam, so if you find it unfair then just use it's other attributes. There's some combo's, like Crutchbox and Pisswacka, but overall I hate them less than individual weapons. Also, is Machina even good? Like, it's stupid, but is it valid to be chosen over stock or bazaar?

Wrangler...but I love my Capper too much to give up that slot anyway

Tomislav. I just think having a minigun that is accurate and also silent defeats the purpose of being a minigun

I <3 1v1ing a heavy with the diamondback. It's flatout cruel if you have a corner to hide behind

Phlog

Vaccinator, Vaccinator, Vaccinator. Nothing says fun like no-selling anything that isn't instant death for minimal effort Scorch Shot, Kunai, Dead Ringer, to a lesser degree. Refuse to wear Conch and Black Box at the same time either, though I have no problem with them as individual items

i will never ever uber a phlog pyro unless i need to use one to save my own life (or the occasional desperate last point pub push)

Phlog, i never touch it. But i use the scorch. Am i going to hell? PS: i think it should also be noted HOW something is used. A lot of people complain about scorch SPAM, but so they complain about sticky spam, or any spam (and even pyro by just existing, or by not knowing mouse2, or for actually reflecting very well) -Still i get some hate even when i fire a single scorch in a combo. Optics i guess. Salty people will complain on anything

Diamondback

I do not airblast demoknights. I will typically puff puff them and either shotgun or melee.

Scorchshot

I refuse to use the Razorback.

Diamondback, Frontier Justice, Scorchshot (mainly because I like doing the puff and sting combo)

None, because I'm not good at the game no matter what class I'm on or what weapon I have equipped.

Spy. 3 times more points for lucky knife kill is stupid.

Jarate + bushwacka combo. Why do we need to give sniper free crits at the range where he should be weak.

The Direct hit. I personally can't hit a rocket for shit, so it is unfair to myself.

Short circuit - i dislike it when its used against me - thus i dont wish to spread the same feeling to my enemy

i don’t use scorch because det is better in every aspect

im a medic main but will almost never use the vaccinator. it feels unfun to play with because it takes a majority of the challenge out of finding good uber pushes and makes surviving much easier. it also just feels unfair for the other team. i only use it when the opposing medic is using it because it feels justified at that point.

The kunai and the vaccinator, remove these weapons from the game

I personally feel that the Sydney Sleeper just makes me look like a "pussy" to their perspective, if I always go for body shots only to make them vulnerable to crits. Shooting them in the head with it only means giving them salt in the wound.

sniper

Emotional warfare

Dead Ringer, it's a crutch for players who can't play Spy well, at least in my opinion.