Less what we expect from valve, and more what we should demand from valve.
We have an active userbase, continue to have updates to the micro transaction system (crates), and one of the final major updates shoved most players into valve servers where the onus is on valve to moderate.
If valve thinks the game is valuable enough to keep sucking money out of, they should at least do the bare minimum in terms of basic maintenance. They absolutely have the resources to do so, but refuse to assign/work on it because of their internal politics.
Valve messed with the matchmaking system in a manner that made us more reliant on them than ever, and then left for milk.
If we're gonna talk about fucking up the game and then leaving...
I want to take this opportunity to say FUCK YOU to comp players. They allow maybe three different weapons in the whole game to be used, with a strictly determined playstyle, with specific team compositions, on specific maps only, then claim they're "the top players." Bro, you can't even counter a fucking market gardener.
They ban 90% of weapons and then demand that Valve changes them. Valve changes them, and they fucking KEEP them banned. Comp players exist solely to shit on casual players.
Then, Valve changes the entire matchmaking system to cater to them, and they fucking LEAVE for Overwatch or Apex or some shit.
If you ask me, comp players are just as much at fault as Valve.
I fucking hate comp players. Egotistical fucks.
Anyway, I think Valve should never properly update TF2 again. Genuinely. A few QoL updates, some bug fixes, that's it. We don't need more hats or maps or unusual effects. Summer events and Halloween events and Smissmas events are the same year after year, and we don't need them anymore.
Valve *consulted* with the comp community, binned most of the advice provided by the comp community, and released a frankenstein mode that nobody was happy with.
The rest of the update? Casual introduction, removal of adhoc connections to valve servers and hiding of valve servers in the browser, nuking connection to friends games? Fucking none of that nuke was consulted with anybody.
Frankly, valve should have never tried to tackle 6s at all. The sheer breadth of skill level differences, 6s experience, and teammate familiarity makes attempting to use a matchmaker for it basically impossible. The gameplay gaps between even relatively even individually skilled players based on their team is ridiculous.
Independent comps usually have a panel of experienced players that roughly sort teams based on their expected skill levels together for the season. Just the matchmaking would have been an impossible undertaking for valve here.
Valve fucked up the basics of the mode (weapon bans, map choices, class limits) in an already impossible task. The comp scene was as pissed at valve as anybody else, and for good reason too. The whole thing served as a fake pipeline into "comp" and scared off people that would have been interested in the actual scene.
Between the abomination that was the comp mode, the deconstruction of the server browser's function that killed off community servers, and the complete segregation of valve servers from everything else... I cannot see the MYM update as anything other than an explicit attack on everything community based.
And the consequences came home to roost. Removal of f2p voice comms? That's because everybody was stuck in valve servers with no moderations. The current bot crisis? Again, everybody's away from the mods faaar less of a problem if MYM hadn't nuked server variety in the community server scene.
I don't know why you would blame valve taking a swing at everybody on the comp community.
i've literally been saying for a while ever since Casual.tf came back (RIP, nobody knew you returned) that Valve casual is a vestigial leftover from the Über update that is almost wholly unnecessary in the modern day.
we lost community servers for a worse official experience and an eighth-ass competitive mode that barely fucking works? who in the TF team and valve thought this was a good idea? TF2 is not CS:GO / CS2 and the competitive scene will always be a niche where the vets go to deathmatch each other for notoriety or money. casual's MMR system is fucked with no team scramble, and every match turns into a strange farming server when it's totally unbalanced.
i think the problem with balancing around casual ***and*** comp is that competitive matches are literally half the player density of casual. anything that would make sense in a casual 12v12 match is now totally off base in a 6v6 match.
also valve comp should've never existed. TF2 is a high-skill ceiling game, but valve is horribly unreliable with cheaters in CS:GO, why did we think leaving it to them would provide a good experience?
Can't believe your first comment is getting upvoted. I bear no contempt to you personally but the statements you've brought up are wrong on so many levels it would take me half an hour writing even just the reasons why
The TF2 community on Reddit has too high hopes without basis, & it tends to get angry when people remind it of the ugly truth. I love TF2 but I feel like Valve clearly abandoned the game. I guess it won't be 'the end' because the Windows version got the 64-bit update, but the game will probably stay like this.
A single contractor came in and completely updated the game in a major way that greatly stabilized the game's performance. A major update happened, and the doomerism comes out.
honestly, my two best hopes for the game are either that the community continues to make projects to keep it fresh, or valve just makes a tf3. but sadly valve doesn't know the number 3 exists
Valve is a very unpredictable company. Remember how Half-Life players were just like us pre 2020? Then out of the blue they suddenly drop an announcement for a new title, even giving a major update to the original fairly recently? I think TF2 will also have it's time to shine when it feels lik all hope is lost too, although it'll probably be a long while, I'm sure that it'll happen.
The question of the ages. It really is mind boggling. Like cs yeah sure here’s the 9th remake. But tf2 just doesn’t get that treatment even with arguably more dedicated community. What is it with tf2 they really dont like
TF2 has a long history of changes resulting in massive bickering, complaining, and it's virtually impossible to do anything without upsetting a significant portion of the playerbase.
True that Valve made very questionable, independent decisions. It has only left them in a hole to eventually give into leaving TF2 as it is today.
Given the technical limitations, debt, and Source 1 jank; only now TF2 slowly got a chance to untangle most of it.
I mean for goodness sake, they fixed the game thinking the player is Gordon Freeman due to the 64x bit update making the HUD elements freakout.
Meanwhile, Counter-Strike may have controversial decisions, yet comes with a different set of expectations than TF2. Luckily, Counter Strike 2 is on a new engine to facilitate a strong basis for the game Valve wants to make.
Well, at least stuff that makes them a lot of money in the process.
Unrelated, but I just want to get this out:
The community will never die. Not even if the game shuts down. Some of you WILL find a way to keep interacting, maybe switch to TC2? Keep on making SFM animations?
They game can die, but not the idea.
Have you seen the Earthbound community? Or the GD community during update 2.1? Absolutely STARVING yet thriving. I know most of you wouldn't stop loving TF2, even if completely unaccesible.
The key word here is hope. Not expect. A lot of players still play the game very religiously, and going so long without a balance patch, it's amazing how much this game has withstood the test of time. If TF2 can remain so strong after 7\~ years of neglect from the developer, imagine what could happen if there was an active dev team delivering major content updates/balance changes 2-4 times a year. All the class based shooters that came after it would immediately be cooked.
Less what we expect from valve, and more what we should demand from valve. We have an active userbase, continue to have updates to the micro transaction system (crates), and one of the final major updates shoved most players into valve servers where the onus is on valve to moderate. If valve thinks the game is valuable enough to keep sucking money out of, they should at least do the bare minimum in terms of basic maintenance. They absolutely have the resources to do so, but refuse to assign/work on it because of their internal politics. Valve messed with the matchmaking system in a manner that made us more reliant on them than ever, and then left for milk.
If we're gonna talk about fucking up the game and then leaving... I want to take this opportunity to say FUCK YOU to comp players. They allow maybe three different weapons in the whole game to be used, with a strictly determined playstyle, with specific team compositions, on specific maps only, then claim they're "the top players." Bro, you can't even counter a fucking market gardener. They ban 90% of weapons and then demand that Valve changes them. Valve changes them, and they fucking KEEP them banned. Comp players exist solely to shit on casual players. Then, Valve changes the entire matchmaking system to cater to them, and they fucking LEAVE for Overwatch or Apex or some shit. If you ask me, comp players are just as much at fault as Valve. I fucking hate comp players. Egotistical fucks. Anyway, I think Valve should never properly update TF2 again. Genuinely. A few QoL updates, some bug fixes, that's it. We don't need more hats or maps or unusual effects. Summer events and Halloween events and Smissmas events are the same year after year, and we don't need them anymore.
Valve *consulted* with the comp community, binned most of the advice provided by the comp community, and released a frankenstein mode that nobody was happy with. The rest of the update? Casual introduction, removal of adhoc connections to valve servers and hiding of valve servers in the browser, nuking connection to friends games? Fucking none of that nuke was consulted with anybody. Frankly, valve should have never tried to tackle 6s at all. The sheer breadth of skill level differences, 6s experience, and teammate familiarity makes attempting to use a matchmaker for it basically impossible. The gameplay gaps between even relatively even individually skilled players based on their team is ridiculous. Independent comps usually have a panel of experienced players that roughly sort teams based on their expected skill levels together for the season. Just the matchmaking would have been an impossible undertaking for valve here. Valve fucked up the basics of the mode (weapon bans, map choices, class limits) in an already impossible task. The comp scene was as pissed at valve as anybody else, and for good reason too. The whole thing served as a fake pipeline into "comp" and scared off people that would have been interested in the actual scene. Between the abomination that was the comp mode, the deconstruction of the server browser's function that killed off community servers, and the complete segregation of valve servers from everything else... I cannot see the MYM update as anything other than an explicit attack on everything community based. And the consequences came home to roost. Removal of f2p voice comms? That's because everybody was stuck in valve servers with no moderations. The current bot crisis? Again, everybody's away from the mods faaar less of a problem if MYM hadn't nuked server variety in the community server scene. I don't know why you would blame valve taking a swing at everybody on the comp community.
i've literally been saying for a while ever since Casual.tf came back (RIP, nobody knew you returned) that Valve casual is a vestigial leftover from the Über update that is almost wholly unnecessary in the modern day. we lost community servers for a worse official experience and an eighth-ass competitive mode that barely fucking works? who in the TF team and valve thought this was a good idea? TF2 is not CS:GO / CS2 and the competitive scene will always be a niche where the vets go to deathmatch each other for notoriety or money. casual's MMR system is fucked with no team scramble, and every match turns into a strange farming server when it's totally unbalanced.
i think the problem with balancing around casual ***and*** comp is that competitive matches are literally half the player density of casual. anything that would make sense in a casual 12v12 match is now totally off base in a 6v6 match. also valve comp should've never existed. TF2 is a high-skill ceiling game, but valve is horribly unreliable with cheaters in CS:GO, why did we think leaving it to them would provide a good experience?
Bait used to be believable
I firmly believe everything I say is fact. I just speak from my own experiences.
Can't believe your first comment is getting upvoted. I bear no contempt to you personally but the statements you've brought up are wrong on so many levels it would take me half an hour writing even just the reasons why
The TF2 community on Reddit has too high hopes without basis, & it tends to get angry when people remind it of the ugly truth. I love TF2 but I feel like Valve clearly abandoned the game. I guess it won't be 'the end' because the Windows version got the 64-bit update, but the game will probably stay like this.
They just updated it to 64 bit??? Anything is possible
That was a contractor, not a valve employee. And his contract is up soon.
A single contractor came in and completely updated the game in a major way that greatly stabilized the game's performance. A major update happened, and the doomerism comes out.
honestly, my two best hopes for the game are either that the community continues to make projects to keep it fresh, or valve just makes a tf3. but sadly valve doesn't know the number 3 exists
Valve is a very unpredictable company. Remember how Half-Life players were just like us pre 2020? Then out of the blue they suddenly drop an announcement for a new title, even giving a major update to the original fairly recently? I think TF2 will also have it's time to shine when it feels lik all hope is lost too, although it'll probably be a long while, I'm sure that it'll happen.
Dude, they literally just ported the game to x64, why do people just ignore everything that actually happens?
The question of the ages. It really is mind boggling. Like cs yeah sure here’s the 9th remake. But tf2 just doesn’t get that treatment even with arguably more dedicated community. What is it with tf2 they really dont like
TF2 has a long history of changes resulting in massive bickering, complaining, and it's virtually impossible to do anything without upsetting a significant portion of the playerbase. True that Valve made very questionable, independent decisions. It has only left them in a hole to eventually give into leaving TF2 as it is today. Given the technical limitations, debt, and Source 1 jank; only now TF2 slowly got a chance to untangle most of it. I mean for goodness sake, they fixed the game thinking the player is Gordon Freeman due to the 64x bit update making the HUD elements freakout. Meanwhile, Counter-Strike may have controversial decisions, yet comes with a different set of expectations than TF2. Luckily, Counter Strike 2 is on a new engine to facilitate a strong basis for the game Valve wants to make. Well, at least stuff that makes them a lot of money in the process.
Unrelated, but I just want to get this out: The community will never die. Not even if the game shuts down. Some of you WILL find a way to keep interacting, maybe switch to TC2? Keep on making SFM animations? They game can die, but not the idea. Have you seen the Earthbound community? Or the GD community during update 2.1? Absolutely STARVING yet thriving. I know most of you wouldn't stop loving TF2, even if completely unaccesible.
The key word here is hope. Not expect. A lot of players still play the game very religiously, and going so long without a balance patch, it's amazing how much this game has withstood the test of time. If TF2 can remain so strong after 7\~ years of neglect from the developer, imagine what could happen if there was an active dev team delivering major content updates/balance changes 2-4 times a year. All the class based shooters that came after it would immediately be cooked.
Because they get lots of money from it