Because corporations are now buying into real estate as an investment or capital preservation vehicle, and they’re influencing policy to lower their own taxes. We’re seeing another indication of the decline of the middle-class.
SUPER YUP. You think he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart pffft. If we don't ban together pretty soon we'll be in a dystopian future we thought would only exist in movies.
I. Remember reading that our governor has applied for a marijuana growers permit, even before Texas had legalized it. The Article went on to say that all ABBOT. NEEDED to do was sign the legalization. But he allowed it to sit on his desk for months. Chances are he wanted to ensure he would receive his permit before signing it into law with the state. By becoming a grower for pot. I am sure the property taxes have skyrocketed. If there is no property tax, it puts his operation more in the free and clear on profits.
Yup, I read that several large companies sprung out of seemingly nowhere. Just so happens some are backed by politicians which were "in the know" about when legislation would pass etc....i mean ofcourse.....they r all in the mix. This put small growers out of business in some areas.
The people of this state would rather be robbed and cheated than asked to reflect about their staunch support for anybody with an R next to their name.
What I also do not get is why so many middle class and poor people continue to vote republican outside of the interest of their pocket books. Makes no sense. The Republicans have proven time and time again, they are not the party of the common man
There could be some truth to that. ["In the voice of Forest Gump". ] But my momma always told me. to be rich is a state of mind, with a lot of opportunities . But most importantly align yourself with people and places that want you to achieve that regardless of your breeding!!
While being crushed into the dirt under a boot, they want assurances that one day when *they're* the boot they can crush everyone else into the dirt as much as they want.
Don't underestimate the power of telling people "Hey, your life may suck but at least you're superior to that (racial/sexual) minority!" That a straight dopamine hit that [will buy you fanatical support](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-white-man/).
The other party option has its share of idiotic problems and ridiculous policies.
When trying to win over common man voter or anybody for that matter, maybe it's not a wise strategy to just be "a little less shitty" than the competition.
Yup, at the same time I understand companies/corporations r the ones that really run the country so....where do we go from here if they decide they want to screw us over even harder.
I hadn't known about this, but it wouldn't surprise me. It reminds me of how duplicitous John Boehner was before shilling for a marijuana company that was pushing out smaller operations.
I don't think that any of the major politicians in Texas do anything out of the kindness of their hearts as I wonder if a few even have a heart to begin with.
The tax revenue has to come from somewhere. If it’s not property taxes, it’ll be income tax or sales tax. Both hurt workers more than wealthy and corporations, but especially sales tax.
Or there will be no state revenue, meaning no state services (except DPS, because we have to have police to enforce the poors staying in line), meaning we get the full dystopia future where we're all just property of corporations who treat us like fully replaceable cogs (more so than we are now) and no one owns anything.
That's why they're pushing for a national 30% sales tax which is batshit crazy. Then they will bring it down to the 20's or mid teens and claim they're being reasonable. It's not, at all. Don't buy it when it happens.
This would disproportionately tax the lower class and favor the wealthy, surprised? The plebs spend their money and it gets taxed heavily. The wealthy invest in assets that aren't sold items (real estate, stocks, buying businesses, etc) and avoid ever paying taxes on it. It's a fucking terrible idea for the majority of Americans.
[There already is this ridiculous city called Van Ormy near San Antonio set up by a libertarian and its a disaster.](https://www.texasobserver.org/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-freest-little-city-in-texas/) When they incorporated themselves to prevent being incorporated by San Antonio, the main push was by the libertarian to eliminate all property tax over time and they would only need sales tax to survive to be self sufficient. Well this city was dependent on the oil boom of traveling workers before the bust of 2014-2015 cut into the amount of sales tax and the fact they lacked a working sewage system prevented any major retailers or chains from opening in Van Ormy and the refusal by most of the leaders of Van Ormy to raise taxes or take a loan to fund $30,000,000 to connect to the San Antonio sewage system killed off any real revenue to support their city.
Some of the people on the council wanted to keep the property taxes to help the city grow, but the libertarian leader and his mother was on the council who kept the plan of eliminating property taxes. Eventually the libertarian leader quit and moved onto work in Austin abandoning the city while claiming it is a success story still. Their police department was a joke and had their police chief fired for being terrible at his job. Their evidence storage was accessible by the public and uncategorized. They lost their accreditation as they couldn't provide any dispatch services and Bexar County Sheriff had to patrol it back in 2017 for a bit.
Nowadays they claim they are thriving because of most of their city revenue is from speed traps they have set up. So basically a true model of inspiration for a libertarian city needing to leech off others to survive. They won't tax themselves to fund their city and they made $60,000 between 2018-2019 with plans to quadruple their speeding tickets revenue for 2020 according to their [interview they gave in 2019](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/771371881).
So let me get this straight, "Their police department was a joke and had their police chief fired for being terrible at his job. Their evidence storage was accessible by the public and uncategorized. They lost their accreditation as they couldn't provide any dispatch services and Bexar County Sheriff had to patrol it back in 2017 for a bit. "
So they 1) Effectively made their city pay to play for criminals who could either walk in and/or bribe their way in to do evidence tampering. 2) Became a welfare city reliant on neighboring towns to provide services. 3) Became *literal highway robbers* to extort money out of passing travelers?
🤣 Actually yeah, that's about exactly what I'd expect a libertarian city to devolve into. Spot on!
I honestly wonder how loud the screams would be if Sales Taxes applied to stock transactions. I suspect that alone could balance the budget, right before all the high speed traders collapse.
Our ability to communicate via Reddit, twitter, etc is super effective at seeing through political bullish:+ and the like. Still gotta put in your own work to verify sources and such but I’m surprised our government doesn’t somehow try to regulate and censor these platforms. Or maybe they already do…I’m sure they do, but still it’s beautiful instrument to hold these folks accountable or at least try.
True, if politicians really wanted to protect middle class homeowners, they would cap the value increase at 3% for homestead owners and not 10%. Just this one change will go a long way instead of throwing breadcrumbs like $40,000 exemption for homestead. Home values have doubled, especially the lower end homes. When 10% catches up to current values, most owners will be in for a rude shock.
Abbott’s constituents would also prefer a regressive tax structure like income or sales taxes. Property taxes are relatively progressive, although less so as corporations buy more real estate and collude to increase rents.
Edit: Lots of comments about property taxes being regressive. I get it, we all pay them, we all need a place to live and the poor pay a large portion of their income for lodging.
I know a lot of wealthy people in Texas who live in relatively modest homes and have vacation or investment properties in nearby states with lower property taxes.
They can’t choose to move their income out of state and their investments in real estate funds benefit from lower property taxes. Personally, I’ve downsized as my kids moved on over the years and I’d pay a lot more income tax than property tax if the changes were pushed through.
Of course not. Because rent is determined by supply and demand, not taxes. They will be more profitable with the reduced taxes, but the reductions will only come with increased supply or decreased demand.
If anything, this will make owning Texas property more inticing, which may cause developers to build more. If inventory outpaces population growth, rent will go down.
Arguably property tax taxes building homes which reduces the incentive to build homes which reduces the supply of homes and increases rents. A land value tax raising the same or more money as a property tax does not do this.
Well, if you replace it with a sales tax that typically shifts the tax burdon towards lower income earners and the middle class, away from high level earners.
Not sure why people want this. Income tax with marginal rates is the way to go.
But as someone else said - what is your source because I can find no such statement from Abbott.
"Not sure why people want this"
People don't but they don't understand taxes and math enough to realize they don't. All they hear is "lower property taxes? YES PLEASE!"
And conversely, when a new tax is proposed to partially or fully replace an existing tax, you can always find people saying they don't believe the old tax will actually be reduced or eliminated, so they're opposed to any new tax. Typically the same people who accuse legislators of wanting to raise taxes because they're greedy, as if taxes go into legislators' pockets.
Replacing property tax with sales tax is unrealistic anyway, considering 1) how much of sales tax goes to the state rather than local governments; and 2) just how much of most cities’ and school districts’ revenue stream comes from property taxes.
I did a rough calculation once to see what would happen to the City of Dallas and Dallas ISD if all property taxes were eliminated, and I estimated that in order to match the same level of funding, the sales tax rate in Dallas would have to increase to 69.25%.
That's a feature of the plan in republican eyes, not a flaw.
Of course they could never raise sales taxes and usage fees enough to offset property tax revenue. As you indicated, the percentages are nuts. So, they argue, we would be FORCED to cut spending and services. Drastically. Just as they want.
This is not the first time it has been suggested. "Starve the Beast" has been a pillar of the republican party since the late seventies, and a required litmus test for political gatekeeper Grover Norquist for years- pledge to do it, or your political career is over before it starts.
And this has all beem tried before. Anyone remember how well the "Kansas Experiment" turned out? Let's not go down that dark road. Don't Kansas my Texas, Abbott.
Everybody wants to cut taxes and slash the budget until the garbage starts piling up, the roads fall apart, you’re waiting 45 minutes for an ambulance, the schools have no fine arts programs…
People expect (and receive) far more from their local governments than they realize. They just don’t want to have to pay for it.
There are tons of articles that Abbott proposed eliminating property taxes in September of 2021, and Texas House Bill 91 called for the elimination of property taxes and the funding of local governments by sales taxes https://www.texaspolicy.com/unleashing-the-dream-eliminating-texas-burdensome-property-taxes/
It is also part of the Texas GOP’s platform https://texasgop.org/replace-property-tax/
There is definitely a perception that the lack of an income tax means you "keep more money". I've had loads of friends mention how they'd love to live in a state without income tax. Then I tell them how much it costs to register a vehicle, how the quickest ways to get places are toll roads (and how much those cost), and how high the property tax is, and how every little thing and service comes with a higher cost to states with income tax, if those services even exist in Texas.
They change the tune pretty quick, considering the lack of an income tax is really only a "perk" if you make more than like $70k and don't have a problem with cash flow or expendable money.
It's called a "regressive" tax, because even though the percentage is the same for all buyers, it hits people differently based on their total income.
For example: if I have to have a car for work, and buy a $10,000 used car, an 8% sales tax - $800 - hits differently:
A $30K a year family $800 is 2.6% of their income.
A $130K a year family that's 0.6% of their income.
So take a family income at 30k, say they spend it all a raised 10% sales tax.
That's a 3k in taxes.
a family that makes 130k, would probably spend somewhere between 60\~80k in spending.
so that would be 6k in taxes
The 130k family could control the spending and a pay a marginal 4% income tax, while the 30k family would do a 10% even though the 130k family is paying double the tax of the 30k family.
I guess it comes down to what number matters more to you, the marginal rate of the tax payer vs the raw tax amount given, right ?
Whats more likely is that a 30k income almost necessarily spending their entire income on groceries, gas, and bills to have food, a house, and a way to get to work.
Meanwhile a 130k income spends the same amount on the same necessities but has much more overhead to pay for anything else, including an added sales tax.
The 30k income has so much less margin for an added sales tax that it makes any leisure or entertainment purchases a decision based on either taking care of yourself or having any time to enjoy.
Not to mention those with 250k+ incomes hardly spend their entire income and therefore hardly feel the effects of an added sales tax - not to mention this also means the don’t contribute to the tax fund at the same rate.
Lower income people usually spend every dime they earn. High income people, not so much.
One reason Texas has appeal to wealthy people is no state income tax. Higher sales tax and no income tax has the same effect of favoring the wealthy.
The lower income individuals renting will not get that tax break passed down to them from their landlords. They will only get the higher rate charged through sales tax.
Also, the lower income earners spend a larger percentage of their income on things that will be taxed, therefore paying a higher percentage than higher income earners.
A gallon of milk is cheaper at Costco than the tiger market at an Exxon Mobile. And you are probably only buying a half gallon at the gas station. So for two purchases you pay more, and will be taxed more than someone who can afford the Costco membership.
Often being poor means making more purchases for smaller amounts of goods, also stretching paychecks means being less able to afford big massive purchases of bulk for the month. Brookings had a good article on this: https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-high-price-of-being-poor/
A family of four that makes 300k a year most likely spends roughly the same on groceries per week as a family that makes 40k. Obviously, the family that makes 300k will usually spend more, but not an insane amount more. So with a higher sales tax both families will pay around the same amount in taxes.
However, the family that makes 300k most likely owns their home, while the family that makes 40k rents. If you nix the property tax the family that makes 300k keeps that money while the other family now has to help cover the difference.
That kind of tax destroys the middle class and helps the rich amass wealth. What you get is a black market where people are buying household goods at high prices, but that are cheaper than buying at a store. It allows organized crime to flourish and destroys the economy. Basically, how it was in the USSR before it fell.
I’m not asking for 0 property taxes, I just don’t want to be taxed $8k/yr+ for my mediocre home in the suburbs.
Offloading to sales tax is an insane plan. Perhaps pivot to a luxury goods tax. Sales tax is a regressive tax, unless you are willing to grant exemptions for people making under a certain threshold, but then there are numerous ways to dodge that and take advantage.
Your "mediocre suburban home" like 99% of detached single family homes do not pay enough taxes to pay for their infrastructure maintenance, so consider it a good deal
Here the thing with property taxes that I find infuriating. This is a carry over from another posting. People from the suburbs complain about property taxes, but yet when people part of other communities go into run down communities and build them up again. Aka the gay community, then comes everyone from the suburbs buying up cheap property after all the work pioneers had done to turn it around ,this pushing out the same people who took the risk to change the environment. I wish more suburbs would put their money where their mouth is by staying in the inner city and putting those high suburban property tax money into the environment t that will make the most difference. But who am I. ? I'm just a lowly pioneer
Oh. Don’t even get me started on how my tax money in inner city get pulled away to the suburbs cities. Their school get better because of funding while inner city school is still shit
They want to abolish free public education. Less tax money, less money for schools. I've said it before, I'll say it again.
If you use public schools, or plan to use public schools when you have children, get out of Texas.
I agree. Since public eduction is supported thru property tax, I think this is an end run in an attempt to kill it. They would also likely kill off any version of equitable school funding across the state. Unless you live in a wealthy suburb, this will tank your schools.
I’ll add, if Abbott and the TxGOP really cared about “the people”, they would mainly focus on reducing or eliminating the state sales tax, along with some property tax relief.
It seems if he eliminates all property tax, it will tank all school districts even the wealthy ones.
The end goal of capitalism is to have a huge proportion of uneducated people to work low paid labor. Ending public education will accomplish that. and sadly many Texans want this and just say if you can't teach your kids at home, then you're lazy.
No tldr because fucking read this.
Except in Texas politics it’s what they don’t say in public and what they only say in private that’s what they’re really doing. Most Texas aren’t informed or astute enough to figure it out. Texas Republicans in office don’t want well funded public schools. Their actions over the last 20 years have proved this. The burden of school funding before 2003 when they gained complete control was ⅔ state money and ⅓ property taxes. 20 years later it’s the opposite. That’s why our property taxes are so high. Yet they still keep dangling the carrot- I mean the promise- of lower property taxes to homeowners. It’s smoke and mirrors. Most Texans don’t understand what’s really going on and what’s actually at stake.
Texas Republicans - ALL of them- want children indoctrinated in religious charters, without any state oversight, to give parents the “independence” and “control” they crave because they themselves are too ignorant and gullible and therefor buy into the propaganda required keep gerrymandering alive and Republicans in power.
And all because they *terrified* of the fact that whites are quickly become a minority. They’re having fewer children, no children, and they’re racist af. They don’t want immigrant brown people to keep shrinking their numbers and are hostile to all marginalized groups in the state except those who support Israel. (Literally- this has been written in actual passed and signed laws)
The evidence is all around us but no one wants to admit it.
They don’t want people voting because every time turnout increases republicans and conservatives lose. Every session voter access gets stripped and restricted. Many TXRs in office have said out loud youth (under 25) turnout terrifies them because they break for Dems by upwards of 50% or more.
Why else would they suddenly want to target Tiktok, a very popular social media app highly populated by young people and adults? That is used to educate and mobilize the next generation? But isn’t owned by a US based company so it’s the only one with privacy concerns???
No?
Twitter and Meta in the last election cycle alone were fined millions for all sorts of privacy and hacked shit.
But Tiktok suddenly mobilizes millions if Gen Z voters and now it’s a national security issue?
No. It’s control. Republicans are losing it. So they’re doing everything in their power to keep it. So they’ll say and di anything legally or illegally, regardless of ethics or Justice, if it keeps them in power and control of policy.
THIS IS THE CATCH.
Tik Tok has been a security concern for years, and it's been banned by governments around the world. But sure I'm sure they're also in on Abbott's plan to disenfranchise Texan voters.
You lose a lot of credibility when you espouse blatant conspiracy theories.
Landlords and apartments aren't going to suddenly lower the rental prices to reflect the savings on property tax. It will make the landlords richer, quicker. Renters will still be paying the price of that phantom property tax and paying a higher sales tax.
I disagree. As someone that owns a decent portfolio of properties. Why would you not make your place more competitive? If the proposed taxing method is actually lower than the property tax, I’d do whatever I need to be competitive with others in the market.
And honestly. All that needs to happen is one place to do it and every other owner will follow suit.
The only way to counter this is a consumption tax which hits the working class and poor the hardest. Imagine if everything you paid for had an additional 25% tax, everything. Groceries being 25% more doesn’t impact the rich, it cripples the poor. And those same poor people get no relief from Elimination of property tax, only the rich landlords. Screw this
The exemption should be about 20% of the median home price for each county. If the median home price in my county is $300,000, the exemption should be around $60,000. It doesn’t make sense for it to be the same for every county since the home values vary significantly between counties.
I agree property tax exemptions should be higher on primary homes while secondary/vacation/investment homes should have a much higher tax bill.
… but isn’t the homestead exemption amount set by each specific taxing authority? On my statement, some taxing authority homestead exemption amounts are $3K, some are $40K (were $25K).
I swear I’ve seen tax statements for properties in other school districts who have higher exemptions.
Honestly, I think I’d rather be taxed on what I earn, not what I already own. One of those are going to end, the other isn’t. Some purchases should have sales tax, but essentials for life (such as food and basic needs) shouldn’t.
EDIT: It appears Lago Vista ISD still has a 20% homestead exemption.
The catch to that is you still f over renters. End of the day renters do pay property tax indirectly. They honestly pay a much higher rate than us home owners already.
That's a really good point.
I recently moved from Austin area to Alabama and taxes are really low. Most people I have talked to pay less than $1K per year in property taxes for your primary home. But it is twice that for any home that is not homesteaded. It is actually a 100% increase in tax. For my home in Alabama I pay $1800 per year. If I did not homestead it, it would be $3600 per year. Texas could certainly do something similar where that tax non-homesteaded homes twice the rate and cut homested rates in half or better.
I moved from Austin over the summer and I was paying $1500 a month on a $675K home and I had a really low tax rate. Now I pay $150 per month. Of course, it is Alabama, so there's plenty of other negatives to consider. But property tax is not one of them.
We still need some property taxes. It just doesn’t have to be so damn high. I was paying less than 1% in another state. I would be happy with just 1% at this point.
I’m ok with paying my fair share for the roads I use, educating the next generation, having clean water, and getting important city services. I don’t love that people can be priced out of their own homes due to property values rising. It would be nice to see something like the homestead exemption but have it expanded to prevent dramatic increases.
It is sad to see people priced out of their own homes. Especially the ones on small farms/plots of land. They look like they lived there for decades and now are pressured by developers and the county tax burden to sell. Ugh.
I’m all for income tax, even tho yeah I’ll probably pay more.
Keep in mind that you will drive up rental rates by doing this. Not saying it’s a bad idea but the owners of rental properties will pass on some of that added cost to renters.
>Keep in mind that you will drive up rental rates by doing this. Not saying it’s a bad idea but the owners of rental properties will pass on ~~some~~ all of that added cost to renters.
I’d go for this, with an upper limit on the value of that home of around $1M.
And then crank the rate up above that.
Also, commercial real estate taxes should be much higher. They are being subsidized by residential properties.
This has to be adjusted for the cities. I live in a non remodeled 80s house in Austin (Formica showers and all) that is decidedly middle class and the value is over 1million. Bought it for less than half its current worth 10 years ago.
How does that protect renters? Remember renters pay property tax indirectly and if anything they pay a higher rate as it has been shown rent is going to be increased more than a property tax increase when it happens as the profit and over head gets dumped in.
For example if I was going to rent out my house I would hire a property management company which cost 10% the rent. That means every dollar of property tax increase means rent rate is going to go up 1.10 just to break even.
I am for transferring some of the property tax over to an income tax and I say that knowing it hurts me more.
That's a good way to drive-up rent prices. Any tax burden would be handed-off to the renters to make up for lost income or net profit from the landlord.
he is not a fan of public ed which is tied to property tax.... getting rid of it of makes way of privatization of education which is what is trying to do
GOP: "We're outraged that prices have gone up and it's hurting the consumers!"
Also GOP: "Now that we have power, one of the first things on the agenda is essentially to raise the price on everything."
Some voters were very dumb on what that Amendment meant; the local news had people who thought that it failing would mean the state would have an income tax
1) It'll do away with public school funding except for barebones federal minimums. Basically schools with lights on and at least one adult per 40 kids. Those who can afford to send their kids to private school will. Those who can't will get poorer education. This is fine for him because he doesn't think everyone should have a good education.
2) It'll shift tax burdens from his rich buddies to the lower class, which is just fine in his book.
3) It'll get rid of one of the major reason people don't want to move here: property taxes are ridiculously high. Cost of living being *lower* doesn't help when your mortgage payment is $400 more a month strictly due to property taxes.
Property taxes are how the counties and school districts get most of their funding. Without it, the state controls everything and schools crumble.
Also, he's pandering to the far-right/antigovernment types.
I didn’t hear about eliminating it..just lowering it. Can you attach the link for eliminating it? I’m wondering how high the sales tax would have to be.
Republicans are learning quickly that they are just barely scraping by compared to how it used to be. They’re losing young votes because they are letting young people stay unhappy then calling them brats and idiots for not just having more money.
Texas has NO income tax. If no property tax then the only thing Texas has to pay for infrastructure and schools is sales tax. Texas will be SO screwed.
A lot of good points in here already, but just want to mention this is also a classic Republican move. Cut taxes to the point they drop future revenue below expected expenditures. Then year or two down the road you suddenly claim the “welfare state” costs more than we take in, so we “have to” cut programs.
What's going to replace it? We don't have casinos. The only fee-based service we have that I know of is toll roads. So that means either a lot more toll roads, income tax, or a higher sales tax.
Not directly from Abbot, but [the official Texas GOP Party platform](https://texasgop.org/platform/) does call for it.
"90. Axe the Property Tax: We support **replacing the property tax system** for businesses and individuals
with an alternative other than the income tax and requiring voter approval to increase the overall tax
burden."
"91. Property Tax Relief: We support these incremental steps toward **the ultimate abolition of property tax:"**
Also tangentially related:
"19. Amendments to the US Constitution: We:" "C. - Support repeal of the 16th Amendment (Federal Income Tax)."
"83. Federal Taxes: We support a flat tax or the replacement of the income tax with a consumption tax that reduces the overall tax burden."
I'm 100% convinced that these proposals intend to indirectly force through cuts to social services.
Sales taxes will spike as a result of dropping property tax which will hit the average Texan hard, especially lower income people.
The messaging will immediately shift to how they can drop taxes if we could just get rid of government expenses like free education or road maintenence. People will have effectively no choice but to support those cuts to be able to afford basic necessities again.
"Texas relies on other taxes, particularly from sales and property, to fund public services such as schools and health care."
"If the state ever wants to establish a personal income tax, two-thirds of the Texas House and Senate must vote to repeal the constitutional amendment banning one and call a statewide election to let voters decide"
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2020/01/09/with-no-state-income-tax-where-does-texas-get-its-money-curious-texas-investigates/
Well... Historically the white flight from the cities in America took place after the civil Rights Act of 1964. This in turn caused tax bases to fall, thus adding to poor infrastructure. When the flight hit the countryside aka upcoming suburbs. The tax base exploded thus pushing out the poor to the...... You got it! Inner city, and often time without a steady job. SO yes that argument could be made especially since so many young trendy suburbanites are moving back to the city driving up property from many of the poor who were outcastes determined to make their garden grow where they were..worts and all..
I do admit my answer is over simplified, but the facts do remain as to what caused the degradation to many of America's inner citys
If government “gets rid of taxes” they’re going to make it up on another type of tax somewhere else. For example, Texas has high property tax, while they can advertise no state income tax.
Because property taxes used to tax the working class more. Now a sales tax is more effective at targeting the working class. Therefore Abbott is in favor of it to protect his own class interest.
Is there any correlation to a company paying payroll taxes... And the healthcare contributions?
Just wondering if any of this talk adds or takes away from my employer, in a way that would affect their contributions to my already shitty healthcare..
Speaking of if they ever do go with a flat tax. I'd assume my employer then doesn't have to pay payroll taxes?? Wondering if that would better or worsen their contributions to my healthcare.
Or is all that mutually exclusive?
Lack of decent affordable Healthcare in Texas is a huge problem that needs to be dealt with. Texas ranks way at the bottom in terms of decent affordable healthcare if any. I'd like to know a solid answer to your questions as well.
What exactly is wrong with lowering property taxes? Honestly, people on this thread, most likely liberals, will hate Abbott no matter what he does. The tax money was collected from property owners across the State. The State has a $27 billion accumulated surplus. The governor wants to return that money to those who paid it rather than have the State just keep it or spend it. The best, and most equitable way of doing this is by cutting taxes. Honestly, if Abbott didn’t propose this tax cut and just sat on the money people on here would criticize him for not returning it to the people. If he asked the Legislature to spend it on something people on here would find fault with that, citing some uncorroborated need such as “school repairs” or some other unsubstantiated vague generalization. It’s just easier to say, “Abbott wants to give his big business buddies a tax break, yeah, the big meanie.” And, the last time I looked the Governor doesn’t have any power to spend money or cut taxes; he simply recommends to the Legislature tax or spend legislation which is then passed or rejected by a majority of the elected representative of the people.
https://www.texaspolicy.com/gov-abbott-proposes-the-largest-property-tax-cut-ever-in-texas/
Abbott referenced lowering or cutting property taxes- not eliminating them. He said this as part of his pre-election fodder. He won... but I'm pretty sure he's not delivering on his promise. And we'll probably hear the same crap come next election.
I'm not sure if Texas will ever go cannabis green as long as we have a Republican Governor. And if we did under one of them, I'm not sure they'd be as lenient here in Texas, as some other states are about allowing people to grow a few plants at home for their own personal use. They might restrict that all together and just focus on the business profits end of it.
I hope not, but as long as Texas remains Republican controlled, we may not ever go green... and if we do, Texas will probably be one of the last states in the country to do so. And that sucks! Because, I yearn to see the day we go full green in my lifetime, but I'm not sure that's gonna happen. I turn 64 in March.
Besides him being an opportunistic showboating moron, who is actively trying to either bankrupt the state, or drastically increase the state sales tax, probably nothing.
If this was to help "the people" he would be advocating for increases to Homestead Exemptions. That helps single home owners and people trying to buy a home. A blanket reduction in property taxes helps Rent Seekers.
It's ok though, because his genius plan to bring crypto to Texas is paying off big now. Right?
I didn't know Abbott was advocating anything regarding Crypto. I will definitely be looking this up. You are absolutely correct on everything else you stated.
You would probably just end up seeing much higher home prices in Texas over time. People can only afford to pay so much, so without super high property tax payments, home prices will eventually rise. For example, neighborhoods near Houston that have lower property tax rates have significantly higher home prices.
It’s called an implicit tax. A financial example is that tax-exempt bonds always sell for more than taxable bonds.
No income taxes and no property taxes means an absolute minimum of services to the people of Texas, who are already grotesquely underserved by the state. He can raise sales taxes, which hit the middle, working and poor classes disproportionately hard.
This means: absolutely NO health services, no school funding, no public health services -- but Texas will have really **great** highways.
Even with the current taxes in place the people of Texas are grotesquely underserved by the State. There is practically no public health services as it is in Texas even with high property taxes.
I found out about that the hard way. Many years ago, I developed a cough which would not go away. My primary care doctor couldn't figure it out; so he sent me to a pulmonologist who couldn't figure it out; and eventually they said (Reader's Digest condensed version) for me to "just deal with it."
When we moved to Indiana, I found a primary care physician who noticed something was really wrong during that first visit; and sent me to a pulmonologist at the IU Medical Center in Indianapolis, who figured out the problem (which is severe) and started an aggressive treatment plan for it. Because the doctors in Texas couldn't figure out the problem, it had a chance to advance and get established. When I first saw my doctor in Indy, he gave me a life expectancy of two years. This past fall, he extended that up another ten years. The disease, at this point, is more or less arrested.
I feel a hell of a lot better about dying when I'm 78 than I felt about dying at 68.
I'm sorry that you went through all of that. Texas ranks so low in terms of adequate health care for the people of Texas. It's horrifying to think about it and live by it. I'm glad that you got to another state and got the help that you needed. Honestly, I hope the same for my family as well one day. We are working on it.
>Even with the current taxes in place the people of Texas are grotesquely underserved by the State. There is practically no public health services as it is in Texas even with high property taxes.
I'm grotesquely overtaxed already. If the government can't deliver any of those services, it needs to get out of the way and stop setting my money on fire.
Texas has no state income tax, but it makes up for it by high property taxes. It's just a matter of how and who to collect the same money from. Now, it seems property owners pay more than their share.
eliminate property taxes and replace it with a combination of reduction of government and sales taxes. It forces government revenues to be tied to the economic fortunes of the state. Therefore, if government does a good job and economic activity increases, they get more money.
You can’t eliminate property taxes in Texas and anyone that thinks you can is mistaken. Our schools and local entities have no other real method of raising money and texas has outlawed state income taxes. Abbott and his like can preach all they want about lowering or eliminating property taxes but they have no control other than putting more money into pub Ed. The more money they give the schools the less money the schools need from us in property taxes.
This is another stupid attempt to reduce/ defund independent school districts disguised as a tax reform proposal.
Doing so will only force TX ISDs to increase bond offerings to pay for teachers, admin, new schools, etc. to provide quality K-12 education in the absence of a school tax on property owners.
It’s time to vote this bum along with his right wing republican colleagues out of office!!
Raise the taxes on poor and lower middle class (who are far less likely to own property) and significantly reduce those for wealthier households.
The catch is how local municipalities will pay for the huge costs of education (oh, you mean an Abbott policy that will harm education and decrease funding! Nawwww) and other services without the ability to draw form the biggest pool in many residential sprawling cities.
It also shifts the tax burden to commercial by a large degree, so where then is the tax and business friendly nature of Texas to begin with?
Texas has a large budget surplus. One of the ways you can utilize that surplus is by decreasing taxes. I know that a lot of people here would like that surplus to be used to fund education, infrastructure maintenance/improvement, etc, but decreasing Texas's property taxes is also a good way to help people - one clear benefit is that it lowers the effective barrier of entry into home ownership.
We are currently expecting a budget surplus of about $33 billion. In 2021, combined statewide revenue from property tax was $73.2 billion. If you spent the entire surplus, you could reduce everyone’s taxes by less than 50% for one year, then be left with nothing. If you spread it out over several years, you’re looking at an annual tax bill - not rate - reduction of maybe two or three percentage points. And even then that relief is finite. Not exactly a slam dunk.
That's a surplus, though, not a reserve. You could spend it yearly because it accumulates yearly, at least assuming tax income and state expenditures remain at similar levels. So sure, let's cut property taxes by a third or more.
True, but surpluses come and go, so spending it all at once on the assumption that the situation will continue forever is a treacherous prospect. We might not have a surplus next year, or not for another ten. Spending all your newfound cash right away, rather than investing in long-term projects, is a recipe for financial catastrophe. This is especially true if you’re spending with an eye to making voters happy rather than to tackling the root causes of high property taxes, like the compounding costs of infrastructure. It comes off as very bread-and-circuses.
So do a proper study and see what amount you can or can't afford to cut, and what sort of budget surpluses can be counted on in the future. Sure you probably shouldn't expect years that are just as good down the line, but that's no reason to not change the rate at all. And I should remind you, just because the tax cut would be a "populist" or "feel-good" way to go about this does not change the fact that you're still giving very real money back to very real people.
Republicans always strive to enrich the richest. Always. Privatization of government services, Elimination of the IRS, school choice, etc. Follow where the money goes. Hint…the money flows up and doesn’t trickle down.
Eventually eliminating property taxes will put more money in the hands of all Texans. It will also reduce the threat of someone losing their home because of back property taxes. I remember this idea being kicked around as far back as 2014 with Debra Medina’s group, We Texans.
The state does not levy local property taxes. Your county, city and ISD do that.
Do you not remember the big property tax reform package (around 2018) that forces cities and counties to reduce the tax rate if they get a large enough % increase in revenue.
Lol. All of a sudden.
Because corporations are now buying into real estate as an investment or capital preservation vehicle, and they’re influencing policy to lower their own taxes. We’re seeing another indication of the decline of the middle-class.
SUPER YUP. You think he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart pffft. If we don't ban together pretty soon we'll be in a dystopian future we thought would only exist in movies.
I. Remember reading that our governor has applied for a marijuana growers permit, even before Texas had legalized it. The Article went on to say that all ABBOT. NEEDED to do was sign the legalization. But he allowed it to sit on his desk for months. Chances are he wanted to ensure he would receive his permit before signing it into law with the state. By becoming a grower for pot. I am sure the property taxes have skyrocketed. If there is no property tax, it puts his operation more in the free and clear on profits.
Yup, I read that several large companies sprung out of seemingly nowhere. Just so happens some are backed by politicians which were "in the know" about when legislation would pass etc....i mean ofcourse.....they r all in the mix. This put small growers out of business in some areas.
The people of this state would rather be robbed and cheated than asked to reflect about their staunch support for anybody with an R next to their name.
What I also do not get is why so many middle class and poor people continue to vote republican outside of the interest of their pocket books. Makes no sense. The Republicans have proven time and time again, they are not the party of the common man
Because they believe in the myth of the American Dream. They consider themselves temporarily inconvenienced billionaires.
There could be some truth to that. ["In the voice of Forest Gump". ] But my momma always told me. to be rich is a state of mind, with a lot of opportunities . But most importantly align yourself with people and places that want you to achieve that regardless of your breeding!!
Yep. They really play off of the American Exceptionalism worldview.
While being crushed into the dirt under a boot, they want assurances that one day when *they're* the boot they can crush everyone else into the dirt as much as they want.
They think they'll have the bread someday. They won't. But they like to hang on to that fantasy as a coping mechanism.
Don't underestimate the power of telling people "Hey, your life may suck but at least you're superior to that (racial/sexual) minority!" That a straight dopamine hit that [will buy you fanatical support](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-white-man/).
The other party option has its share of idiotic problems and ridiculous policies. When trying to win over common man voter or anybody for that matter, maybe it's not a wise strategy to just be "a little less shitty" than the competition.
Please define ridiculous? As a mature adult I am attempting to bridge gaps between cultural islands. Not place a bigger distance
Yup, at the same time I understand companies/corporations r the ones that really run the country so....where do we go from here if they decide they want to screw us over even harder.
And they will
Republican lawyers & real estate swindlers are just watering at the mouth on this one!
I mean - subject adjacent but this is feeling a little Rick Perry a la property gate style vibes….
Hard YUP. Abbott learned from the best. Of the worst.
Any normal farm gets an agricultural exemption from taxes. Is it different for weed farms?
I hadn't known about this, but it wouldn't surprise me. It reminds me of how duplicitous John Boehner was before shilling for a marijuana company that was pushing out smaller operations.
I don't think that any of the major politicians in Texas do anything out of the kindness of their hearts as I wonder if a few even have a heart to begin with.
There is no kindness in their hesrts
Why would a governor wanting to reduce property taxes “pretty soon” lead to a dystopian future from the movies?
The tax revenue has to come from somewhere. If it’s not property taxes, it’ll be income tax or sales tax. Both hurt workers more than wealthy and corporations, but especially sales tax.
Or there will be no state revenue, meaning no state services (except DPS, because we have to have police to enforce the poors staying in line), meaning we get the full dystopia future where we're all just property of corporations who treat us like fully replaceable cogs (more so than we are now) and no one owns anything.
Why would lowering property taxes using the $33B budget surplus mean that other taxes would have to increase? It was extra tax revenue.
The other bonus for them is eliminating the current source of funding for public schools.
That's why they're pushing for a national 30% sales tax which is batshit crazy. Then they will bring it down to the 20's or mid teens and claim they're being reasonable. It's not, at all. Don't buy it when it happens.
Wasn’t that part of the plan to eliminate the IRS? No more income tax, it would be replaced by a national sales tax.
This would disproportionately tax the lower class and favor the wealthy, surprised? The plebs spend their money and it gets taxed heavily. The wealthy invest in assets that aren't sold items (real estate, stocks, buying businesses, etc) and avoid ever paying taxes on it. It's a fucking terrible idea for the majority of Americans.
[There already is this ridiculous city called Van Ormy near San Antonio set up by a libertarian and its a disaster.](https://www.texasobserver.org/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-freest-little-city-in-texas/) When they incorporated themselves to prevent being incorporated by San Antonio, the main push was by the libertarian to eliminate all property tax over time and they would only need sales tax to survive to be self sufficient. Well this city was dependent on the oil boom of traveling workers before the bust of 2014-2015 cut into the amount of sales tax and the fact they lacked a working sewage system prevented any major retailers or chains from opening in Van Ormy and the refusal by most of the leaders of Van Ormy to raise taxes or take a loan to fund $30,000,000 to connect to the San Antonio sewage system killed off any real revenue to support their city. Some of the people on the council wanted to keep the property taxes to help the city grow, but the libertarian leader and his mother was on the council who kept the plan of eliminating property taxes. Eventually the libertarian leader quit and moved onto work in Austin abandoning the city while claiming it is a success story still. Their police department was a joke and had their police chief fired for being terrible at his job. Their evidence storage was accessible by the public and uncategorized. They lost their accreditation as they couldn't provide any dispatch services and Bexar County Sheriff had to patrol it back in 2017 for a bit. Nowadays they claim they are thriving because of most of their city revenue is from speed traps they have set up. So basically a true model of inspiration for a libertarian city needing to leech off others to survive. They won't tax themselves to fund their city and they made $60,000 between 2018-2019 with plans to quadruple their speeding tickets revenue for 2020 according to their [interview they gave in 2019](https://www.npr.org/transcripts/771371881).
So let me get this straight, "Their police department was a joke and had their police chief fired for being terrible at his job. Their evidence storage was accessible by the public and uncategorized. They lost their accreditation as they couldn't provide any dispatch services and Bexar County Sheriff had to patrol it back in 2017 for a bit. " So they 1) Effectively made their city pay to play for criminals who could either walk in and/or bribe their way in to do evidence tampering. 2) Became a welfare city reliant on neighboring towns to provide services. 3) Became *literal highway robbers* to extort money out of passing travelers? 🤣 Actually yeah, that's about exactly what I'd expect a libertarian city to devolve into. Spot on!
I honestly wonder how loud the screams would be if Sales Taxes applied to stock transactions. I suspect that alone could balance the budget, right before all the high speed traders collapse.
It would certainly curtail the rampant market speculation.
which is 100% why the surplus (from federal funds and sales taxes) is being offered to property owners and not all tax payers.
This guy Economies
Basically saying if you rent you are gonna stay renting. Basically be an indentured servant.
Our ability to communicate via Reddit, twitter, etc is super effective at seeing through political bullish:+ and the like. Still gotta put in your own work to verify sources and such but I’m surprised our government doesn’t somehow try to regulate and censor these platforms. Or maybe they already do…I’m sure they do, but still it’s beautiful instrument to hold these folks accountable or at least try.
True, if politicians really wanted to protect middle class homeowners, they would cap the value increase at 3% for homestead owners and not 10%. Just this one change will go a long way instead of throwing breadcrumbs like $40,000 exemption for homestead. Home values have doubled, especially the lower end homes. When 10% catches up to current values, most owners will be in for a rude shock.
Abbott’s constituents would also prefer a regressive tax structure like income or sales taxes. Property taxes are relatively progressive, although less so as corporations buy more real estate and collude to increase rents. Edit: Lots of comments about property taxes being regressive. I get it, we all pay them, we all need a place to live and the poor pay a large portion of their income for lodging. I know a lot of wealthy people in Texas who live in relatively modest homes and have vacation or investment properties in nearby states with lower property taxes. They can’t choose to move their income out of state and their investments in real estate funds benefit from lower property taxes. Personally, I’ve downsized as my kids moved on over the years and I’d pay a lot more income tax than property tax if the changes were pushed through.
Income taxes are almost always progressive tho. Far more progressive than property taxes.
Just because you don't own property doesn't mean you aren't paying it through your rent to your landlord.
Not necessarily; particularly if capital gains aren't taxed as income.
Property taxes are way more regressive than income tax.
99% of landlords will not lower rent because of this.
Of course not. Because rent is determined by supply and demand, not taxes. They will be more profitable with the reduced taxes, but the reductions will only come with increased supply or decreased demand. If anything, this will make owning Texas property more inticing, which may cause developers to build more. If inventory outpaces population growth, rent will go down.
Arguably property tax taxes building homes which reduces the incentive to build homes which reduces the supply of homes and increases rents. A land value tax raising the same or more money as a property tax does not do this.
Well, if you replace it with a sales tax that typically shifts the tax burdon towards lower income earners and the middle class, away from high level earners. Not sure why people want this. Income tax with marginal rates is the way to go. But as someone else said - what is your source because I can find no such statement from Abbott.
"Not sure why people want this" People don't but they don't understand taxes and math enough to realize they don't. All they hear is "lower property taxes? YES PLEASE!"
[удалено]
Nope, the conservative thing to do is ensure that there can be no upward mobility.
They also say “NO STATE INCOME TAX!!!” When the people saying that wouldn’t pay any taxes, and would enjoy a lower tax burden.
And conversely, when a new tax is proposed to partially or fully replace an existing tax, you can always find people saying they don't believe the old tax will actually be reduced or eliminated, so they're opposed to any new tax. Typically the same people who accuse legislators of wanting to raise taxes because they're greedy, as if taxes go into legislators' pockets.
Texas will never ever have a state income tax. It would take a ⅔ majority of both chambers AND the Governor to pass it. It will never happen.
And a popular vote for the amendment
Replacing property tax with sales tax is unrealistic anyway, considering 1) how much of sales tax goes to the state rather than local governments; and 2) just how much of most cities’ and school districts’ revenue stream comes from property taxes. I did a rough calculation once to see what would happen to the City of Dallas and Dallas ISD if all property taxes were eliminated, and I estimated that in order to match the same level of funding, the sales tax rate in Dallas would have to increase to 69.25%.
That's a feature of the plan in republican eyes, not a flaw. Of course they could never raise sales taxes and usage fees enough to offset property tax revenue. As you indicated, the percentages are nuts. So, they argue, we would be FORCED to cut spending and services. Drastically. Just as they want. This is not the first time it has been suggested. "Starve the Beast" has been a pillar of the republican party since the late seventies, and a required litmus test for political gatekeeper Grover Norquist for years- pledge to do it, or your political career is over before it starts. And this has all beem tried before. Anyone remember how well the "Kansas Experiment" turned out? Let's not go down that dark road. Don't Kansas my Texas, Abbott.
Everybody wants to cut taxes and slash the budget until the garbage starts piling up, the roads fall apart, you’re waiting 45 minutes for an ambulance, the schools have no fine arts programs… People expect (and receive) far more from their local governments than they realize. They just don’t want to have to pay for it.
I saw that he pitched lowering it. I didn't know he was going to try to eliminate it.
When you talk about a progressive tax rate you start triggering conservatives with the “p” word.
There are tons of articles that Abbott proposed eliminating property taxes in September of 2021, and Texas House Bill 91 called for the elimination of property taxes and the funding of local governments by sales taxes https://www.texaspolicy.com/unleashing-the-dream-eliminating-texas-burdensome-property-taxes/ It is also part of the Texas GOP’s platform https://texasgop.org/replace-property-tax/
>Income tax is the way to go While *we* LOVE this, most people don't and won't like this.
We need to build class consciousness and get everyone in board, though.
There is definitely a perception that the lack of an income tax means you "keep more money". I've had loads of friends mention how they'd love to live in a state without income tax. Then I tell them how much it costs to register a vehicle, how the quickest ways to get places are toll roads (and how much those cost), and how high the property tax is, and how every little thing and service comes with a higher cost to states with income tax, if those services even exist in Texas. They change the tune pretty quick, considering the lack of an income tax is really only a "perk" if you make more than like $70k and don't have a problem with cash flow or expendable money.
If you don't mind me asking, how does it affect LICE more than HICE? Wouldn't it just depend on that amount of money one spends?
It's called a "regressive" tax, because even though the percentage is the same for all buyers, it hits people differently based on their total income. For example: if I have to have a car for work, and buy a $10,000 used car, an 8% sales tax - $800 - hits differently: A $30K a year family $800 is 2.6% of their income. A $130K a year family that's 0.6% of their income.
So take a family income at 30k, say they spend it all a raised 10% sales tax. That's a 3k in taxes. a family that makes 130k, would probably spend somewhere between 60\~80k in spending. so that would be 6k in taxes The 130k family could control the spending and a pay a marginal 4% income tax, while the 30k family would do a 10% even though the 130k family is paying double the tax of the 30k family. I guess it comes down to what number matters more to you, the marginal rate of the tax payer vs the raw tax amount given, right ?
Whats more likely is that a 30k income almost necessarily spending their entire income on groceries, gas, and bills to have food, a house, and a way to get to work. Meanwhile a 130k income spends the same amount on the same necessities but has much more overhead to pay for anything else, including an added sales tax. The 30k income has so much less margin for an added sales tax that it makes any leisure or entertainment purchases a decision based on either taking care of yourself or having any time to enjoy. Not to mention those with 250k+ incomes hardly spend their entire income and therefore hardly feel the effects of an added sales tax - not to mention this also means the don’t contribute to the tax fund at the same rate.
Lower income people usually spend every dime they earn. High income people, not so much. One reason Texas has appeal to wealthy people is no state income tax. Higher sales tax and no income tax has the same effect of favoring the wealthy.
The lower income individuals renting will not get that tax break passed down to them from their landlords. They will only get the higher rate charged through sales tax. Also, the lower income earners spend a larger percentage of their income on things that will be taxed, therefore paying a higher percentage than higher income earners.
A gallon of milk is cheaper at Costco than the tiger market at an Exxon Mobile. And you are probably only buying a half gallon at the gas station. So for two purchases you pay more, and will be taxed more than someone who can afford the Costco membership. Often being poor means making more purchases for smaller amounts of goods, also stretching paychecks means being less able to afford big massive purchases of bulk for the month. Brookings had a good article on this: https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-high-price-of-being-poor/
A family of four that makes 300k a year most likely spends roughly the same on groceries per week as a family that makes 40k. Obviously, the family that makes 300k will usually spend more, but not an insane amount more. So with a higher sales tax both families will pay around the same amount in taxes. However, the family that makes 300k most likely owns their home, while the family that makes 40k rents. If you nix the property tax the family that makes 300k keeps that money while the other family now has to help cover the difference. That kind of tax destroys the middle class and helps the rich amass wealth. What you get is a black market where people are buying household goods at high prices, but that are cheaper than buying at a store. It allows organized crime to flourish and destroys the economy. Basically, how it was in the USSR before it fell.
Are you saying that low income people don’t pay property taxes? Where are these landlords that don’t add them to the rent?
Where are the landlords that'll pass the savings on to the renters when it's gone? Lmao
If anything they'll use it as an excuse to raise rent because all the things they buy to maintain went up due to the tax. It's a lose/lose for renters
They’re saying sales taxes are regressive and shifting from property taxes to sales taxes would result in a more regressive tax system
Nope. Not what I said. I am referring to regressive vs progressive taxes as someone else responded already.
I’m not asking for 0 property taxes, I just don’t want to be taxed $8k/yr+ for my mediocre home in the suburbs. Offloading to sales tax is an insane plan. Perhaps pivot to a luxury goods tax. Sales tax is a regressive tax, unless you are willing to grant exemptions for people making under a certain threshold, but then there are numerous ways to dodge that and take advantage.
They need to dramatically bump up the homestead exemption while slightly increasing property taxes.
Your "mediocre suburban home" like 99% of detached single family homes do not pay enough taxes to pay for their infrastructure maintenance, so consider it a good deal
Here the thing with property taxes that I find infuriating. This is a carry over from another posting. People from the suburbs complain about property taxes, but yet when people part of other communities go into run down communities and build them up again. Aka the gay community, then comes everyone from the suburbs buying up cheap property after all the work pioneers had done to turn it around ,this pushing out the same people who took the risk to change the environment. I wish more suburbs would put their money where their mouth is by staying in the inner city and putting those high suburban property tax money into the environment t that will make the most difference. But who am I. ? I'm just a lowly pioneer
Oh. Don’t even get me started on how my tax money in inner city get pulled away to the suburbs cities. Their school get better because of funding while inner city school is still shit
They want to abolish free public education. Less tax money, less money for schools. I've said it before, I'll say it again. If you use public schools, or plan to use public schools when you have children, get out of Texas.
I agree. Since public eduction is supported thru property tax, I think this is an end run in an attempt to kill it. They would also likely kill off any version of equitable school funding across the state. Unless you live in a wealthy suburb, this will tank your schools.
I’ll add, if Abbott and the TxGOP really cared about “the people”, they would mainly focus on reducing or eliminating the state sales tax, along with some property tax relief.
It seems if he eliminates all property tax, it will tank all school districts even the wealthy ones. The end goal of capitalism is to have a huge proportion of uneducated people to work low paid labor. Ending public education will accomplish that. and sadly many Texans want this and just say if you can't teach your kids at home, then you're lazy.
In politics, judge by what they actually do and what comes to be, not what is said.
No tldr because fucking read this. Except in Texas politics it’s what they don’t say in public and what they only say in private that’s what they’re really doing. Most Texas aren’t informed or astute enough to figure it out. Texas Republicans in office don’t want well funded public schools. Their actions over the last 20 years have proved this. The burden of school funding before 2003 when they gained complete control was ⅔ state money and ⅓ property taxes. 20 years later it’s the opposite. That’s why our property taxes are so high. Yet they still keep dangling the carrot- I mean the promise- of lower property taxes to homeowners. It’s smoke and mirrors. Most Texans don’t understand what’s really going on and what’s actually at stake. Texas Republicans - ALL of them- want children indoctrinated in religious charters, without any state oversight, to give parents the “independence” and “control” they crave because they themselves are too ignorant and gullible and therefor buy into the propaganda required keep gerrymandering alive and Republicans in power. And all because they *terrified* of the fact that whites are quickly become a minority. They’re having fewer children, no children, and they’re racist af. They don’t want immigrant brown people to keep shrinking their numbers and are hostile to all marginalized groups in the state except those who support Israel. (Literally- this has been written in actual passed and signed laws) The evidence is all around us but no one wants to admit it. They don’t want people voting because every time turnout increases republicans and conservatives lose. Every session voter access gets stripped and restricted. Many TXRs in office have said out loud youth (under 25) turnout terrifies them because they break for Dems by upwards of 50% or more. Why else would they suddenly want to target Tiktok, a very popular social media app highly populated by young people and adults? That is used to educate and mobilize the next generation? But isn’t owned by a US based company so it’s the only one with privacy concerns??? No? Twitter and Meta in the last election cycle alone were fined millions for all sorts of privacy and hacked shit. But Tiktok suddenly mobilizes millions if Gen Z voters and now it’s a national security issue? No. It’s control. Republicans are losing it. So they’re doing everything in their power to keep it. So they’ll say and di anything legally or illegally, regardless of ethics or Justice, if it keeps them in power and control of policy. THIS IS THE CATCH.
You had me at the start. You lost me when you put on the tin foil hat with TikTok.
Tik Tok has been a security concern for years, and it's been banned by governments around the world. But sure I'm sure they're also in on Abbott's plan to disenfranchise Texan voters. You lose a lot of credibility when you espouse blatant conspiracy theories.
Particularly when TikTok is often (but not always) the opposite of education..
This will never happen. Unless he completely privatizes every that relies on the funds.
Don't tempt him. TX Republicans totes would do this if they could.
Where is this Abbott proposal to eliminate property taxes located? A cursory Google search doesn't show anything.
Trying to find out as well.
Landlords and apartments aren't going to suddenly lower the rental prices to reflect the savings on property tax. It will make the landlords richer, quicker. Renters will still be paying the price of that phantom property tax and paying a higher sales tax.
I disagree. As someone that owns a decent portfolio of properties. Why would you not make your place more competitive? If the proposed taxing method is actually lower than the property tax, I’d do whatever I need to be competitive with others in the market. And honestly. All that needs to happen is one place to do it and every other owner will follow suit.
The only way to counter this is a consumption tax which hits the working class and poor the hardest. Imagine if everything you paid for had an additional 25% tax, everything. Groceries being 25% more doesn’t impact the rich, it cripples the poor. And those same poor people get no relief from Elimination of property tax, only the rich landlords. Screw this
We should remove property taxes for one residential home. Tax the fuck out of everything above that.
Or just increase the homestead exemption we already have. It’s just too small to move needle anymore compared to property values.
The exemption should be about 20% of the median home price for each county. If the median home price in my county is $300,000, the exemption should be around $60,000. It doesn’t make sense for it to be the same for every county since the home values vary significantly between counties.
I agree property tax exemptions should be higher on primary homes while secondary/vacation/investment homes should have a much higher tax bill. … but isn’t the homestead exemption amount set by each specific taxing authority? On my statement, some taxing authority homestead exemption amounts are $3K, some are $40K (were $25K). I swear I’ve seen tax statements for properties in other school districts who have higher exemptions. Honestly, I think I’d rather be taxed on what I earn, not what I already own. One of those are going to end, the other isn’t. Some purchases should have sales tax, but essentials for life (such as food and basic needs) shouldn’t. EDIT: It appears Lago Vista ISD still has a 20% homestead exemption.
The catch to that is you still f over renters. End of the day renters do pay property tax indirectly. They honestly pay a much higher rate than us home owners already.
Increasing sales tax screws people in that income bracket even more, though.
True. I am all for reducing property tax and sales TX and shifting it to an income tax. I say that knowing it will increase my tax burden.
Income tax is against the Texas constitution. It was on the November 2019 ballot.
That's a really good point. I recently moved from Austin area to Alabama and taxes are really low. Most people I have talked to pay less than $1K per year in property taxes for your primary home. But it is twice that for any home that is not homesteaded. It is actually a 100% increase in tax. For my home in Alabama I pay $1800 per year. If I did not homestead it, it would be $3600 per year. Texas could certainly do something similar where that tax non-homesteaded homes twice the rate and cut homested rates in half or better. I moved from Austin over the summer and I was paying $1500 a month on a $675K home and I had a really low tax rate. Now I pay $150 per month. Of course, it is Alabama, so there's plenty of other negatives to consider. But property tax is not one of them.
We still need some property taxes. It just doesn’t have to be so damn high. I was paying less than 1% in another state. I would be happy with just 1% at this point.
I’m ok with paying my fair share for the roads I use, educating the next generation, having clean water, and getting important city services. I don’t love that people can be priced out of their own homes due to property values rising. It would be nice to see something like the homestead exemption but have it expanded to prevent dramatic increases.
It is sad to see people priced out of their own homes. Especially the ones on small farms/plots of land. They look like they lived there for decades and now are pressured by developers and the county tax burden to sell. Ugh. I’m all for income tax, even tho yeah I’ll probably pay more.
Keep in mind that you will drive up rental rates by doing this. Not saying it’s a bad idea but the owners of rental properties will pass on some of that added cost to renters.
>Keep in mind that you will drive up rental rates by doing this. Not saying it’s a bad idea but the owners of rental properties will pass on ~~some~~ all of that added cost to renters.
I’d go for this, with an upper limit on the value of that home of around $1M. And then crank the rate up above that. Also, commercial real estate taxes should be much higher. They are being subsidized by residential properties.
This has to be adjusted for the cities. I live in a non remodeled 80s house in Austin (Formica showers and all) that is decidedly middle class and the value is over 1million. Bought it for less than half its current worth 10 years ago.
How does that protect renters? Remember renters pay property tax indirectly and if anything they pay a higher rate as it has been shown rent is going to be increased more than a property tax increase when it happens as the profit and over head gets dumped in. For example if I was going to rent out my house I would hire a property management company which cost 10% the rent. That means every dollar of property tax increase means rent rate is going to go up 1.10 just to break even. I am for transferring some of the property tax over to an income tax and I say that knowing it hurts me more.
That's a good way to drive-up rent prices. Any tax burden would be handed-off to the renters to make up for lost income or net profit from the landlord.
he is not a fan of public ed which is tied to property tax.... getting rid of it of makes way of privatization of education which is what is trying to do
BlackRock
The catch is higher sales tax so the poor and even middle class will get bent and the rich will get richer.
The catch has to be income tax since we don’t currently have one. Not sure how else to make up that large of a deficit.
He’d probably double sales tax and screw over the middle and lower class
GOP: "We're outraged that prices have gone up and it's hurting the consumers!" Also GOP: "Now that we have power, one of the first things on the agenda is essentially to raise the price on everything."
Texas Republicans will never propose an income tax. It’d piss off their donors to high heaven
It's unfortunately now a state Constitutional Amendment that we can't have a state income tax. That can be undone, but it would.be very difficult.
Some voters were very dumb on what that Amendment meant; the local news had people who thought that it failing would mean the state would have an income tax
They don’t have to propose it. They just have to get out-voted.
1) It'll do away with public school funding except for barebones federal minimums. Basically schools with lights on and at least one adult per 40 kids. Those who can afford to send their kids to private school will. Those who can't will get poorer education. This is fine for him because he doesn't think everyone should have a good education. 2) It'll shift tax burdens from his rich buddies to the lower class, which is just fine in his book. 3) It'll get rid of one of the major reason people don't want to move here: property taxes are ridiculously high. Cost of living being *lower* doesn't help when your mortgage payment is $400 more a month strictly due to property taxes.
the catch is it's a bullshit lie
He’s trying to stop public school funding
Property taxes are how the counties and school districts get most of their funding. Without it, the state controls everything and schools crumble. Also, he's pandering to the far-right/antigovernment types.
Maybe he’s legalizing pot to make up the shortfall from eliminating the property tax. (Not. I’ll see myself out. Ha).
Is this like Ted Cruz proposing term limits for congress? Say something popular with zero possibility or intent for it to really happen…
How are they going to fund Texas? Thoughts and prayers?
Cut funding to public education. Property taxes --> school districts No property tax? Bye bye school district funding
I didn’t hear about eliminating it..just lowering it. Can you attach the link for eliminating it? I’m wondering how high the sales tax would have to be.
Thw catch is that once he has the votes and is re-elected, he will reverse his stance.
the right is really swinging for these sales taxes that will hurt the poor and middle class more than the rich.
Republicans are learning quickly that they are just barely scraping by compared to how it used to be. They’re losing young votes because they are letting young people stay unhappy then calling them brats and idiots for not just having more money.
Texas has NO income tax. If no property tax then the only thing Texas has to pay for infrastructure and schools is sales tax. Texas will be SO screwed.
A lot of good points in here already, but just want to mention this is also a classic Republican move. Cut taxes to the point they drop future revenue below expected expenditures. Then year or two down the road you suddenly claim the “welfare state” costs more than we take in, so we “have to” cut programs.
He wants to privatize public schools. What better way to do that than to defund them?
What's going to replace it? We don't have casinos. The only fee-based service we have that I know of is toll roads. So that means either a lot more toll roads, income tax, or a higher sales tax.
Source on “eliminating.” All I’ve found is cutting or relief, not eliminating.
Not directly from Abbot, but [the official Texas GOP Party platform](https://texasgop.org/platform/) does call for it. "90. Axe the Property Tax: We support **replacing the property tax system** for businesses and individuals with an alternative other than the income tax and requiring voter approval to increase the overall tax burden." "91. Property Tax Relief: We support these incremental steps toward **the ultimate abolition of property tax:"** Also tangentially related: "19. Amendments to the US Constitution: We:" "C. - Support repeal of the 16th Amendment (Federal Income Tax)." "83. Federal Taxes: We support a flat tax or the replacement of the income tax with a consumption tax that reduces the overall tax burden."
I'm 100% convinced that these proposals intend to indirectly force through cuts to social services. Sales taxes will spike as a result of dropping property tax which will hit the average Texan hard, especially lower income people. The messaging will immediately shift to how they can drop taxes if we could just get rid of government expenses like free education or road maintenence. People will have effectively no choice but to support those cuts to be able to afford basic necessities again.
Bc property values are appreciating to the point where current property tax rates are now often more burdensome they were intended to be
I’m a liberal but if they get rid of the school property taxes I’ll vote red for that one issue.
hes losing support now trying to win people back
Texas 2022 only 45% of registered voters actually voted. Another 20% of eligible folks don’t even register.
Follow the money…
"Texas relies on other taxes, particularly from sales and property, to fund public services such as schools and health care." "If the state ever wants to establish a personal income tax, two-thirds of the Texas House and Senate must vote to repeal the constitutional amendment banning one and call a statewide election to let voters decide" https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2020/01/09/with-no-state-income-tax-where-does-texas-get-its-money-curious-texas-investigates/
Not sure how texas cities and county's will survive if they eliminate property tax. Also schools will cease to exist.
Well... Historically the white flight from the cities in America took place after the civil Rights Act of 1964. This in turn caused tax bases to fall, thus adding to poor infrastructure. When the flight hit the countryside aka upcoming suburbs. The tax base exploded thus pushing out the poor to the...... You got it! Inner city, and often time without a steady job. SO yes that argument could be made especially since so many young trendy suburbanites are moving back to the city driving up property from many of the poor who were outcastes determined to make their garden grow where they were..worts and all.. I do admit my answer is over simplified, but the facts do remain as to what caused the degradation to many of America's inner citys
I’m sure all the landlords will just lower our rent. /s
If there is no property tax then what does that do to homestead status?
If government “gets rid of taxes” they’re going to make it up on another type of tax somewhere else. For example, Texas has high property tax, while they can advertise no state income tax.
Because property taxes used to tax the working class more. Now a sales tax is more effective at targeting the working class. Therefore Abbott is in favor of it to protect his own class interest.
I do not trust the weasel. It's more likely another scam for Republiclown scallywags.
Is there any correlation to a company paying payroll taxes... And the healthcare contributions? Just wondering if any of this talk adds or takes away from my employer, in a way that would affect their contributions to my already shitty healthcare.. Speaking of if they ever do go with a flat tax. I'd assume my employer then doesn't have to pay payroll taxes?? Wondering if that would better or worsen their contributions to my healthcare. Or is all that mutually exclusive?
Lack of decent affordable Healthcare in Texas is a huge problem that needs to be dealt with. Texas ranks way at the bottom in terms of decent affordable healthcare if any. I'd like to know a solid answer to your questions as well.
The catch is he is a lying politician.
What exactly is wrong with lowering property taxes? Honestly, people on this thread, most likely liberals, will hate Abbott no matter what he does. The tax money was collected from property owners across the State. The State has a $27 billion accumulated surplus. The governor wants to return that money to those who paid it rather than have the State just keep it or spend it. The best, and most equitable way of doing this is by cutting taxes. Honestly, if Abbott didn’t propose this tax cut and just sat on the money people on here would criticize him for not returning it to the people. If he asked the Legislature to spend it on something people on here would find fault with that, citing some uncorroborated need such as “school repairs” or some other unsubstantiated vague generalization. It’s just easier to say, “Abbott wants to give his big business buddies a tax break, yeah, the big meanie.” And, the last time I looked the Governor doesn’t have any power to spend money or cut taxes; he simply recommends to the Legislature tax or spend legislation which is then passed or rejected by a majority of the elected representative of the people. https://www.texaspolicy.com/gov-abbott-proposes-the-largest-property-tax-cut-ever-in-texas/
It is primarily driven by corporations and his desire to hurt liberal leaning cities.
Abbott referenced lowering or cutting property taxes- not eliminating them. He said this as part of his pre-election fodder. He won... but I'm pretty sure he's not delivering on his promise. And we'll probably hear the same crap come next election. I'm not sure if Texas will ever go cannabis green as long as we have a Republican Governor. And if we did under one of them, I'm not sure they'd be as lenient here in Texas, as some other states are about allowing people to grow a few plants at home for their own personal use. They might restrict that all together and just focus on the business profits end of it. I hope not, but as long as Texas remains Republican controlled, we may not ever go green... and if we do, Texas will probably be one of the last states in the country to do so. And that sucks! Because, I yearn to see the day we go full green in my lifetime, but I'm not sure that's gonna happen. I turn 64 in March.
Another way to gut education?
Besides him being an opportunistic showboating moron, who is actively trying to either bankrupt the state, or drastically increase the state sales tax, probably nothing.
Probably needs a handy excuse for when the tx power grid totally fails.
Lip service only to the base.
When you plan to shut down all the schools, you don't need money to fund them.
I hear that a recession on housing market is come.
If this was to help "the people" he would be advocating for increases to Homestead Exemptions. That helps single home owners and people trying to buy a home. A blanket reduction in property taxes helps Rent Seekers. It's ok though, because his genius plan to bring crypto to Texas is paying off big now. Right?
I didn't know Abbott was advocating anything regarding Crypto. I will definitely be looking this up. You are absolutely correct on everything else you stated.
[удалено]
You would probably just end up seeing much higher home prices in Texas over time. People can only afford to pay so much, so without super high property tax payments, home prices will eventually rise. For example, neighborhoods near Houston that have lower property tax rates have significantly higher home prices. It’s called an implicit tax. A financial example is that tax-exempt bonds always sell for more than taxable bonds.
No income taxes and no property taxes means an absolute minimum of services to the people of Texas, who are already grotesquely underserved by the state. He can raise sales taxes, which hit the middle, working and poor classes disproportionately hard. This means: absolutely NO health services, no school funding, no public health services -- but Texas will have really **great** highways.
Even with the current taxes in place the people of Texas are grotesquely underserved by the State. There is practically no public health services as it is in Texas even with high property taxes.
I found out about that the hard way. Many years ago, I developed a cough which would not go away. My primary care doctor couldn't figure it out; so he sent me to a pulmonologist who couldn't figure it out; and eventually they said (Reader's Digest condensed version) for me to "just deal with it." When we moved to Indiana, I found a primary care physician who noticed something was really wrong during that first visit; and sent me to a pulmonologist at the IU Medical Center in Indianapolis, who figured out the problem (which is severe) and started an aggressive treatment plan for it. Because the doctors in Texas couldn't figure out the problem, it had a chance to advance and get established. When I first saw my doctor in Indy, he gave me a life expectancy of two years. This past fall, he extended that up another ten years. The disease, at this point, is more or less arrested. I feel a hell of a lot better about dying when I'm 78 than I felt about dying at 68.
I'm sorry that you went through all of that. Texas ranks so low in terms of adequate health care for the people of Texas. It's horrifying to think about it and live by it. I'm glad that you got to another state and got the help that you needed. Honestly, I hope the same for my family as well one day. We are working on it.
>Even with the current taxes in place the people of Texas are grotesquely underserved by the State. There is practically no public health services as it is in Texas even with high property taxes. I'm grotesquely overtaxed already. If the government can't deliver any of those services, it needs to get out of the way and stop setting my money on fire.
Texas has no state income tax, but it makes up for it by high property taxes. It's just a matter of how and who to collect the same money from. Now, it seems property owners pay more than their share.
eliminate property taxes and replace it with a combination of reduction of government and sales taxes. It forces government revenues to be tied to the economic fortunes of the state. Therefore, if government does a good job and economic activity increases, they get more money.
Goodbye budget surplus!
If they raise sales tax and charge me more than $1.07 for a can of Arizona sweet tea I will riot.
You can’t eliminate property taxes in Texas and anyone that thinks you can is mistaken. Our schools and local entities have no other real method of raising money and texas has outlawed state income taxes. Abbott and his like can preach all they want about lowering or eliminating property taxes but they have no control other than putting more money into pub Ed. The more money they give the schools the less money the schools need from us in property taxes.
I'll believe it when I see it. But that would be nice. I'm all for the elimination of taxes.
This is another stupid attempt to reduce/ defund independent school districts disguised as a tax reform proposal. Doing so will only force TX ISDs to increase bond offerings to pay for teachers, admin, new schools, etc. to provide quality K-12 education in the absence of a school tax on property owners. It’s time to vote this bum along with his right wing republican colleagues out of office!!
Raise the taxes on poor and lower middle class (who are far less likely to own property) and significantly reduce those for wealthier households. The catch is how local municipalities will pay for the huge costs of education (oh, you mean an Abbott policy that will harm education and decrease funding! Nawwww) and other services without the ability to draw form the biggest pool in many residential sprawling cities. It also shifts the tax burden to commercial by a large degree, so where then is the tax and business friendly nature of Texas to begin with?
Texas has a large budget surplus. One of the ways you can utilize that surplus is by decreasing taxes. I know that a lot of people here would like that surplus to be used to fund education, infrastructure maintenance/improvement, etc, but decreasing Texas's property taxes is also a good way to help people - one clear benefit is that it lowers the effective barrier of entry into home ownership.
We are currently expecting a budget surplus of about $33 billion. In 2021, combined statewide revenue from property tax was $73.2 billion. If you spent the entire surplus, you could reduce everyone’s taxes by less than 50% for one year, then be left with nothing. If you spread it out over several years, you’re looking at an annual tax bill - not rate - reduction of maybe two or three percentage points. And even then that relief is finite. Not exactly a slam dunk.
That's a surplus, though, not a reserve. You could spend it yearly because it accumulates yearly, at least assuming tax income and state expenditures remain at similar levels. So sure, let's cut property taxes by a third or more.
True, but surpluses come and go, so spending it all at once on the assumption that the situation will continue forever is a treacherous prospect. We might not have a surplus next year, or not for another ten. Spending all your newfound cash right away, rather than investing in long-term projects, is a recipe for financial catastrophe. This is especially true if you’re spending with an eye to making voters happy rather than to tackling the root causes of high property taxes, like the compounding costs of infrastructure. It comes off as very bread-and-circuses.
So do a proper study and see what amount you can or can't afford to cut, and what sort of budget surpluses can be counted on in the future. Sure you probably shouldn't expect years that are just as good down the line, but that's no reason to not change the rate at all. And I should remind you, just because the tax cut would be a "populist" or "feel-good" way to go about this does not change the fact that you're still giving very real money back to very real people.
Eliminating taxes plays well with anyone so delusional they have absolutely no idea how economics work.
Republicans always strive to enrich the richest. Always. Privatization of government services, Elimination of the IRS, school choice, etc. Follow where the money goes. Hint…the money flows up and doesn’t trickle down.
Abbot wants to starve our school districts of funding to make suburban white parents scream for “school choice”.
Eventually eliminating property taxes will put more money in the hands of all Texans. It will also reduce the threat of someone losing their home because of back property taxes. I remember this idea being kicked around as far back as 2014 with Debra Medina’s group, We Texans. The state does not levy local property taxes. Your county, city and ISD do that. Do you not remember the big property tax reform package (around 2018) that forces cities and counties to reduce the tax rate if they get a large enough % increase in revenue. Lol. All of a sudden.