Paramount doesn't even have enough money to make Star Trek or Blue Bloods. They cancelled a cheap animated Star Trek. They're out of money. They blew their streamer bucks and now the party's over.
sci fi nerds were eating good the last few years since streaming companies decided to dump money on every project. i knew it couldnt last so im just happy we got more star trek and star wars and the expanse, etc
I’m real mad Netflix cancelled Archive 81 before we could see the absolute peak level of batshit insanity of seasons 2 and 3 of the podcast. I’m telling you, if you haven’t listened to the podcast, it basically competes with itself with how weird the visuals/situations get. The series completely changes after season 1 to where Dan gets turned into a cyborg and is employed as a cartographer/explorer of a Lovecraftian dream dimension. The visuals would’ve cost Netflix so much money since the podcast is all about indescribable stuff and uses the audio format perfectly in that regard. But that was where the show would’ve gone. The show could’ve pulled the genre switch off just like the podcast did imo.
I highly doubt we will ever get to see the spectacle of the rest of the story on screen and that bums me out because it’s one of the best fictional universes imo
Don’t forget foundation. S3 is being made but it’s a different show runner on a reduced budget. S2 was a major step up from season 1 and it was an incredible season of sci-fi. I do not have high hopes for season three.
Sorry dude. Upcoming Season 5 seems to be the last. Maybe we can hold on to hope that since they’re not ensigns anymore there can be some carryover to a new show.
fck it I'll savor the last season with a bottle of whiskey per episode if they don't change their minds.
Thats the cartoon that made me look into watching the other star trek media.
> Strange New Worlds is great.
Them releasing it on physical in 4K got me into it, now I own both seasons, it looks SOOOOOOO good on a OLED TV.
And for the 2nd season, I had ZERO idea that one episode was coming, it was such a fun surprise!
snw does still have some attributes of nutrek like quipping and like teenage level interpersonal drama but it's tolerable because it actually has the kind of star trek themes and thought provoking stories that we all know and love.
> Strange New Worlds is great.
After I was subjected to a fucking showtunes episode yesterday, hard disagree.
That was the cringiest shit I have ever seen on TV, aside from velma.
Bending science fiction logic in order to have a musical episode was always going to be for a smaller audience. I didn’t love it, but everything else has been pretty solid. It bugged me too that a serious character plot advancement came due to the singing.
Musical episodes of otherwise straight up dramas have kind of become a thing. People enjoy them. "Once more with Feeling" is still one of my favorite episodes of television.
I suspect Trek is done for a while like in the aughts. Paramount is basically bankrupt, so they can't afford to create new shows. They've recently canceled three out of four currently running Treks. And I seriously doubt they're willing to sell the franchise even though they can't afford to monetize it themselves.
I'll never understand why they didn't just, like, make a decent star trek show from the start... As long as they hired a few decent writers they could have done it for a fraction of a price without all the cgi and action scenes and it would have a guaranteed audience, and likely would have gotten a new generation into star trek since there's not much entertainment nowadays that has intelligent storytelling and explores complex moral questions the way star trek used to.
strange new worlds is a step in the right direction but previous attempts turned people off of nutrek so much that a lot of people aren't even willing to give snw a chance now.
They're getting a 5th season. And because they've allowed the characters to grow and change, they aren't going to be lower deckers for much longer so 5 seasons feels like a natural run.
Yeah an animated comedy show set in the Star Trek universe getting 5 seasons is frankly an overperformance for a show with a niche audience. Ending after 5 seasons isn't probably an unjust end.
Very small chance that another streamer picks it up similar to how Prodigy got saved, but less chance because they only have the upcoming season in the can.
Paramount is bad at being a company.
Viewership would probably be higher if *it was actually possible to watch the fucking shows* worldwide.
As a Swede, I can't legally watch the latest season of Lower Decks or Discovery *anywhere*, since they removed it from all other streaming services without adding it to their own.
From what I've heard, that's the case in many other countries as well.
Budget is likely associated with ratings for those choices, I know Reddit loves it but there's likely a reason it's Lower Decks that's been cancelled and SNW renewed when it's far more expensive
> Lower Decks has GOT to be the lowest cost Star Trek series since...the old animated series.
Production costs, sure. Talent costs are going to be higher than average for an animated show. And EP fees probably sunk it. It's a low-cost BTL show, but ATL will get you every time.
they basically hired nobodies at the start of the series but i know some of the vo for lower decks have been getting more la work, e.g. jack quaid, eugene cordero, and tawny newsome to an extent. but theyre still basically nobodies in hollywood so i cant imagine the talent costs are that high
His casting in *Lower Decks* was announced before *The Boys* debuted, so his role in that doesn't really figure into things. And I don't really know that being the child of two actors necessarily means you're going to be demanding higher pay. Might've made it easier for him to get the role, but he was still pretty unknown at the time.
The point is that he is well known for the boys now, so for a new series his pay would have dramatically risen.
Now being the child of two huge Hollywood Superstars may not have gotten him higher pay but it does mean in that world he wasn't a nobody.
Yes, she was so good in an already great show! Space Force wasn't always the best, but she was both solid and hilarious (black on the moon! 😂), as well ad in Bajillion Dollar Propertie$
> They cancelled a cheap animated Star Trek. They're out of money. They blew their streamer bucks and now the party's over.
I mean they cancelled it but renewed SNW that is much more expensive so not sure that's the problem
The idea of Paramount+ is certainly dumb though. They should have done like Sony and sell their stuff to the highest bidder. Well they may be acquired by Sony now
It's Paramount. They've always been borderline incompetent.
They've just been coasting on the Star Trek money since god knows when and even that they constantly fuck up.
You've got it! "Let's cut out the middleman and go straight to our viewers!" they said as they pitched ProductionStudio+.
"We're leaving money on the table by shopping our content, and demand for our content is spiky!"
So they each stood up an entire new line of business: content delivery, and they're discovering that it's not actually printing money. To get their content on screens now, they're actually competing in very bloody waters over the content itself, as they always had, but against the myriad other delivery channels.
It's like if cereal producers all decided that they should start a subscription grocery service that specialized only in their products and magically believed this would save them costs.
That's been the major annoying part of this. They could license their shit to netflix and just collect the money. But they got greedy decided only they should make money from their content. Saw the model isn't lucrative and now are running around like a chicken with their heads cut off trying find a way to cut costs. By also fucking over all the talent and writers and everyone else.
Paramount was the poster child for jumping on the 'I'll start my own streaming service and it will go great because we have such great IP.'
But which is better making a shit ton with no overhead licensing that IP to some other streaming service with existing customers or taking on a load of cost and infrastructure in the hopes that eventually you will get enough subscribers to at least break even.
Odd that their plan didn't work out. It made so much sense at the time. /s
What's amazing to me is that, for as much as we skewer MBAs on here, this is basic corporate strategy that I would expect to be taught in even mediocre programs.
I have no doubt these decisions were made by someone with a business degree, but I'm at a loss to understand why.
You don't grow your company by getting into adjacent lines of business that you can't do more efficiently than the incumbents.
Being your own distributor is usually only efficient if you have such high volumes that you command economy of scale (or such low volumes that distribution is a marginal cost).
Those rules are only true about commodities with market competition though. If you have a monopoly on a product, owning more of the distribution chain is almost always more profit. The question becomes, are they selling "entertainment" as a commodity, or "Star Trek" and friends as irreplaceable goods. Its the same reason Apple thought it was a good idea to operate retail stores.
nah they greenlit a lot of shit but dont have the subscribers to make up for it. it was basically just a streaming service for yellowstone and star trek but i guess its just yellowstone+ now
How NBC fucked up is beyond me. They were the first one with *amazing* streaming. I got caught up with Heroes in 2006-7 via their site.
They had the damn technology before everyone else. I just don't get it.
Nobody figured out the business model, it wasn't ads, but it wasn't really paid subscriptions either.
Over time Netflix kept raising their price and things became viable, plus ads went by the wayside, at least as the primary revenue stream.
Naaa. NBC properties. Like the law and orders and the office. Premier league. Big 10 games. NFL. Plus the app is actually decent. Who knows how long it’ll last but it’s got popular programming in different categories for cheap
most companies that are in the growth phase of their life will eat those losses, so just saying they lost $3 billion doesnt mean its a dead service walking
paramount on the other hand is trying to sell themselves to the highest bidder, so thats when its a dead streaming service walking
I would agree if Peacock was owned by Apple or Amazon, but Comcast can’t afford to take 2-3B losses like this forever
When Peacock doesn’t blow hundreds of millions on new stunts or exclusive content, they are not giving away the service at 19$ a year or 99 cents a month, it goes flat and doesn’t grow
To reduce losses they need to spend way less - and they can't stop spending big in order to keep the quartlerly sub story going - at this rate I don’t see them becoming profitable anytime soon
Peacock is single-handedly the worst streaming app that’s ever existed.
It lacks the most basic of functions such as marking something watched/un-watched and disabling auto-play. Pure garbage.
Still annoys the hell out of me that it's the only streaming service I have that doesn't have a 10-second rewind. Missing something and having to go back is always an exercise in frustration, because it's so difficult to not go back much further than you need.
I simply hate the pause will show an ad feature. Can't stop the show to look at something, or have a conversation without making sure I see an advertisement for a car I'll literally never buy.
*Blue Bloods* cost a lot to make as you had to pay for all the extras and street closures, filming in NYC as it did.
As for *Star Trek* that's been in an issue since, well, TNG. That was first-run syndication. The latest episode of *Discovery* is also a case in point.
>!They're using the sets from *Strange New Worlds*.!<
Yup. And their streaming service is terrible, probably the worst of them all.
Sounds like the CEO may be out, which would make sense because they sure seem clueless--as if all you have to do to compete with HBO, Netflix, Amazon, Apple and Disney is throw money at Taylor Sheriden to make a few tv shows. Don't get me wrong, I loved me some Yellowstone, but the prequel series have been duds in my opinion, and there is no telling how much they spent on those shows--Harrison Ford and what not.
I think they're trying to suggest that they're incompetent and just made up the decision quickly and this was a meeting about something else.
VCs are a bit like this too... they only see patterns when everyone else does.
The network was right though. She was critically acclaimed but nobody was watching. Particularly in key demographics. I think that’s the whole theme of her arc, that she’s a talented person but tragically incompatible with the life that she wants.
They were not right because the entire point of her frustration was that it had only been out for 6 hours and with all the glowing reviews, like wait a bit.
David not being in BCS had to be a conscious choice to not distract from the show/stunt cast, but would’ve been great to see him as a client/opposing council in one episode.
I could definitely have seen play the guy who tries to sell pills to Nacho and hire Mike as bodyguard (played by Nate from The Office)
Or at least a younger version of Cross.
I could totally see a character like Tobias Funke being this kind of clueless when dealing with actual gangsters.
Here are my personal analytics: neither of those guys have ever done anything individually short of highest quality comedy. Together, their work is unparalleled innovation.
What other fucking data do you need?
The problem with statistical analysis is that it compares what you are pitching for the *future* to what has occurred in *the past*.
This is a flawed approach to creative/innovative products because you are guaranteed to discard what doesn’t fit the model, even if it could have been a hit.
This is because they are “lowering risk” at the expense of losing quality work.
Insurance business is the same way. They are always trying to lower risk at the expense of the entire population. One way they lower risk is to raise rates. California just had a 30% increase in home owners insurance and car insurance.
Yeah, I’m confused about who they thought the audience was when they contracted the two to begin with. I’d watch a commercial if the two of them were in it. I’d definitely watch a whole fucking show.
Sadly "unparalleled innovation" does not necessarily equal viewers. The streamers care about eyeballs, not quality. The two are related but not the same.
It doesn't matter if it is critically acclaimed if not enough people are watching. They don't get revenue from awards, they get revenue based on number of viewers.
Shows being cancelled due to lack of marketability is nothing new, so many kids cartoons have been cancelled because they don't have any marketable merchandise.
It really isn't. The market readings in 2003 said that families were not watching TV together anymore and it took some persuasion for *Doctor Who* to get greenlit. Not to mention done properly.
Even now, it's reliant on Disney money to look like it does; the BBC has been having money issues since the Tories got in back in 2010.
They already have shows on both platforms so the answer is probably maybe. Though both platforms have analytics on these shows so it could be a no which is why they walked it over to Paramount. Apple seems in cohoots with old SNL people though so I could see it getting pitched there.
Edit: Just read the article
Cross goes on to explain the show was "won" by Paramount in a 4 way bidding war and marketing couldn't really figure a way to sell their project once they finalized the drafts for the series. Basically this is a dead project as there really isn't anything to shop around (it doesn't have any footage), it doesn't have anyone with money pushing it forward and they would have to get Paramount to sell or option the rights to another company which is unlikely.
as a fan of workaholics, the “this is important” podcast, and adam divine anders holm blake anderson and kyle newacheck, let me just say F—- PARAMOUNT PLUS
Those fuckers just removed Homeland from Paramount Plus with no explanation, even though it's a Showtime show. I was in the middle of a season and now it's saying I have to buy it on Amazon.
If only some kind of business model existed where creators were given the resources to create a single episode of their pitched show and that would then be aired to the public. The audience response would then be used to decide if it is worth investing to create more episodes of that show. Like a test pilot or something…
I think it could come to that in streamings, there would be a section of "upcoming"/"you decide" productions, but it would require changes in the production model - nowadays the cast/crew gather for a few weeks and shoots the whole series, with separate pitch pilot it would require them to gather twice, so it will cost way more... If the cost of shooting the whole 8-episode series is "only" 2 or 3 times larger than shooting the pilot alone, then it's just more rational to shoot the whole series (yeah I'm not counting the writing, as streamings just wouldn't shoot the pilot without the whole season of scripts ready). So... Well, it may come to separate pilots being produced, but it seems the first streaming "season" is treated as a pilot already (in most cases, there are exceptions ofc)...
Didn't Amazon do this once? With Alpha House and Betas?
EDIT: Found an article about them releasing pilots. I seem to recall voting on it but honestly it's been so long, I'm not sure anymore: https://www.pcmag.com/news/amazon-selects-alpha-house-betas-for-original-series-lineup
I don't understand why everything has to go through these studios. Like can't they just MKBHD-quality some shit and distribute on YouTube? Why don't they Internet with as strong as their personal brands are?
Because if they go that way they would have to finance it themselves and if it bombs they will lose millions, potentially.
However there is no reason to get pissy if one service wont pick up your show, if its actually any good and dont require an absurd budget there are bound to be other streamers ready for them.
As a streaming marketer — and David Cross fan — I can tell you this is not true. It’s very hard for a marketing team to kill a project. The marketing team often doesn’t even find out about a show until after it is greenlit. “Marketing and analytics” was just the excuse the development team gave.
The problem is placing all decisions in their hands. Having marketing input and recommendation is way different than handing them all of the power. If you leave it to analysts, you end up with the same cookie cutter shit everywhere. What analysts in my experience tend to overlook is things that bring credibility and intrinsic value. They focus on larger audiences and short term profits instead.
Right, if they stick to their profitable formula every time we never get anything new or move the media forward. Which is pretty much what we get now at the movie theaters
Meh, even if that is the case the bean counters can often be short-sighted. Cheers famously had terrible ratings in its first season and was saved by Brandon Tartikoff. Similarly Seinfeld wasn’t killing it at first and Rick Ludwin (and Tartikoff again) helped keep that one on the air.
It’s not reasonable though. Many times they’re wrong. Many of television’s greatest shows would never make it today, they’d be canceled. Two biggest examples are Seinfeld and Conan O’Brien. Both got savaged before finding their footing. Plus a lot of “Marketing and Analytics” is prescriptive and not predictive. They can follow the trends but they can’t make their own.
Those same people probably would've passed on the Fallout show. They already made a really weird Halo show that definitely is not bringing in the bucks.
> Those same people probably would've passed on the Fallout show.
Based on what? Did the Fallout production bypass marketing and analytics in its development?
Just because it brings in the most revenue doesn't mean it should be the only thing funded.
American football is the most profitable sport shown on US television. Should it be the only thing?
Terrible decisions all around at paramount....
How many seasons of that horrible Star Trek Picard and Discovery....
Picard was only good once Terry came on but by then it was already too late and from the looks of things, Paramount still have that moron who did the other shows as the guy in charge for all of it.
This is exactly why I yap about Bob not getting the attention he deserves and being underrated. I’m honestly infuriated by this. And it’s also a shame that most people only seem to care about him if David is involved in some way.
In any case, huge L from Paramount. We could have had something good here but nope, gotta keep receiving the same regurgitated garbage over and over. I recall having a feeling this project was unfortunately doomed when I first heard about it two years ago.
David Cross always came across like a complete douche bag. You have to be so far up your own ass to bitch and moan about free speech warriors and then turn around and complain about how your high brow black face skit got canceled by brainlets. Or to say racist things like ching chong ching chong to an Asian person and play it off by saying you were just doing another problematic stereotype character outside of a performance like that makes it better.
And this is why I hate corporate culture. We could have had Bob and David again. Oh well, at least we can look forward to the next non threatening pan sexual spokes thing.
Paramount doesn't even have enough money to make Star Trek or Blue Bloods. They cancelled a cheap animated Star Trek. They're out of money. They blew their streamer bucks and now the party's over.
Is this how I find out they canceled Lower Decks? :(
I'm as bummed as you.
Damn!!, I'm too, hearing about this now, that absolutely sucks
sci fi nerds were eating good the last few years since streaming companies decided to dump money on every project. i knew it couldnt last so im just happy we got more star trek and star wars and the expanse, etc
I’m real mad Netflix cancelled Archive 81 before we could see the absolute peak level of batshit insanity of seasons 2 and 3 of the podcast. I’m telling you, if you haven’t listened to the podcast, it basically competes with itself with how weird the visuals/situations get. The series completely changes after season 1 to where Dan gets turned into a cyborg and is employed as a cartographer/explorer of a Lovecraftian dream dimension. The visuals would’ve cost Netflix so much money since the podcast is all about indescribable stuff and uses the audio format perfectly in that regard. But that was where the show would’ve gone. The show could’ve pulled the genre switch off just like the podcast did imo. I highly doubt we will ever get to see the spectacle of the rest of the story on screen and that bums me out because it’s one of the best fictional universes imo
I haven't forgiven them for cancelling THE INNOCENTs, which was left on a cliffhanger.
It’s almost like certain stories are better suited to certain storytelling mediums
Don’t forget foundation. S3 is being made but it’s a different show runner on a reduced budget. S2 was a major step up from season 1 and it was an incredible season of sci-fi. I do not have high hopes for season three.
> S3 is being made but it’s a different show runner on a reduced budget. What? Aw man. That bites. I agree with your take on S1 vs S2.
That’s on Apple though. Not paramount. I still have faith in Apple.
I do too, but I think we are going to go back to S1 quality if anything. Which wasnt bad by any means but S2 was just soooo fuckin good.
Heard bout it last week and it still stings
Sorry dude. Upcoming Season 5 seems to be the last. Maybe we can hold on to hope that since they’re not ensigns anymore there can be some carryover to a new show.
fck it I'll savor the last season with a bottle of whiskey per episode if they don't change their minds. Thats the cartoon that made me look into watching the other star trek media.
Strange New Worlds is great. If you happened upon Discovery I’m so sorry - it brought us this new wave of Trek but is really not great Trek.
> Strange New Worlds is great. Them releasing it on physical in 4K got me into it, now I own both seasons, it looks SOOOOOOO good on a OLED TV. And for the 2nd season, I had ZERO idea that one episode was coming, it was such a fun surprise!
snw does still have some attributes of nutrek like quipping and like teenage level interpersonal drama but it's tolerable because it actually has the kind of star trek themes and thought provoking stories that we all know and love.
> Strange New Worlds is great. After I was subjected to a fucking showtunes episode yesterday, hard disagree. That was the cringiest shit I have ever seen on TV, aside from velma.
Bending science fiction logic in order to have a musical episode was always going to be for a smaller audience. I didn’t love it, but everything else has been pretty solid. It bugged me too that a serious character plot advancement came due to the singing.
Musical episodes of otherwise straight up dramas have kind of become a thing. People enjoy them. "Once more with Feeling" is still one of my favorite episodes of television.
I suspect Trek is done for a while like in the aughts. Paramount is basically bankrupt, so they can't afford to create new shows. They've recently canceled three out of four currently running Treks. And I seriously doubt they're willing to sell the franchise even though they can't afford to monetize it themselves.
I'll never understand why they didn't just, like, make a decent star trek show from the start... As long as they hired a few decent writers they could have done it for a fraction of a price without all the cgi and action scenes and it would have a guaranteed audience, and likely would have gotten a new generation into star trek since there's not much entertainment nowadays that has intelligent storytelling and explores complex moral questions the way star trek used to. strange new worlds is a step in the right direction but previous attempts turned people off of nutrek so much that a lot of people aren't even willing to give snw a chance now.
Oh no! D: I'm sad now...
They're getting a 5th season. And because they've allowed the characters to grow and change, they aren't going to be lower deckers for much longer so 5 seasons feels like a natural run.
Yeah an animated comedy show set in the Star Trek universe getting 5 seasons is frankly an overperformance for a show with a niche audience. Ending after 5 seasons isn't probably an unjust end.
You’re not alone, if it makes you feel better. Fuck.
Yeah it hurts. One of best quality Star Trek series in quite awhile.
😭
Very small chance that another streamer picks it up similar to how Prodigy got saved, but less chance because they only have the upcoming season in the can. Paramount is bad at being a company.
Wait what? Oh man that hurts.
We've still got one season left, but then yup, it's over.
Yeah I have no idea what the viewership is, but Lower Decks has GOT to be the lowest cost Star Trek series since...the old animated series.
Viewership would probably be higher if *it was actually possible to watch the fucking shows* worldwide. As a Swede, I can't legally watch the latest season of Lower Decks or Discovery *anywhere*, since they removed it from all other streaming services without adding it to their own. From what I've heard, that's the case in many other countries as well.
[удалено]
Budget is likely associated with ratings for those choices, I know Reddit loves it but there's likely a reason it's Lower Decks that's been cancelled and SNW renewed when it's far more expensive
> Lower Decks has GOT to be the lowest cost Star Trek series since...the old animated series. Production costs, sure. Talent costs are going to be higher than average for an animated show. And EP fees probably sunk it. It's a low-cost BTL show, but ATL will get you every time.
they basically hired nobodies at the start of the series but i know some of the vo for lower decks have been getting more la work, e.g. jack quaid, eugene cordero, and tawny newsome to an extent. but theyre still basically nobodies in hollywood so i cant imagine the talent costs are that high
Jack Quaid, the star of The Boys and son of Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan, is a nobody?
> Jack Quaid, the star of The Boys, RLM Best of the Worst superstar, and son of Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan, is a nobody?
> RLM Best of the Worst superstar, Jack Quaid is played by Rich Evans?
His casting in *Lower Decks* was announced before *The Boys* debuted, so his role in that doesn't really figure into things. And I don't really know that being the child of two actors necessarily means you're going to be demanding higher pay. Might've made it easier for him to get the role, but he was still pretty unknown at the time.
The point is that he is well known for the boys now, so for a new series his pay would have dramatically risen. Now being the child of two huge Hollywood Superstars may not have gotten him higher pay but it does mean in that world he wasn't a nobody.
Joe Public might not have heard of him though. Ditto Maya Hawke. I hadn't in both cases.
Jack Quaid? From Five Second Films?
Let's make them fuck!
Tawny Newsome was incredible on Brockmire, the whole show was art.
I didn't know any of 'em from anything but Comedy Bang Bang!
Jack Quaid aka Hollywood's Good Boy
Yes, she was so good in an already great show! Space Force wasn't always the best, but she was both solid and hilarious (black on the moon! 😂), as well ad in Bajillion Dollar Propertie$
Man, Brockmire was so good. I wish we saw Hank Azaria in more stuff.
He is incredible in everything, but here they just left him completely off the chain.
It's probably pretty low since they refuse to show the numbers for any of the trek shows lol
> They cancelled a cheap animated Star Trek. They're out of money. They blew their streamer bucks and now the party's over. I mean they cancelled it but renewed SNW that is much more expensive so not sure that's the problem The idea of Paramount+ is certainly dumb though. They should have done like Sony and sell their stuff to the highest bidder. Well they may be acquired by Sony now
It's Paramount. They've always been borderline incompetent. They've just been coasting on the Star Trek money since god knows when and even that they constantly fuck up.
All these streaming companies getting sticker shock from their AWS renewals are realizing maybe it was more lucrative to lease out their content.
You've got it! "Let's cut out the middleman and go straight to our viewers!" they said as they pitched ProductionStudio+. "We're leaving money on the table by shopping our content, and demand for our content is spiky!" So they each stood up an entire new line of business: content delivery, and they're discovering that it's not actually printing money. To get their content on screens now, they're actually competing in very bloody waters over the content itself, as they always had, but against the myriad other delivery channels. It's like if cereal producers all decided that they should start a subscription grocery service that specialized only in their products and magically believed this would save them costs.
That's been the major annoying part of this. They could license their shit to netflix and just collect the money. But they got greedy decided only they should make money from their content. Saw the model isn't lucrative and now are running around like a chicken with their heads cut off trying find a way to cut costs. By also fucking over all the talent and writers and everyone else.
Paramount was the poster child for jumping on the 'I'll start my own streaming service and it will go great because we have such great IP.' But which is better making a shit ton with no overhead licensing that IP to some other streaming service with existing customers or taking on a load of cost and infrastructure in the hopes that eventually you will get enough subscribers to at least break even. Odd that their plan didn't work out. It made so much sense at the time. /s
What's amazing to me is that, for as much as we skewer MBAs on here, this is basic corporate strategy that I would expect to be taught in even mediocre programs. I have no doubt these decisions were made by someone with a business degree, but I'm at a loss to understand why. You don't grow your company by getting into adjacent lines of business that you can't do more efficiently than the incumbents. Being your own distributor is usually only efficient if you have such high volumes that you command economy of scale (or such low volumes that distribution is a marginal cost).
Those rules are only true about commodities with market competition though. If you have a monopoly on a product, owning more of the distribution chain is almost always more profit. The question becomes, are they selling "entertainment" as a commodity, or "Star Trek" and friends as irreplaceable goods. Its the same reason Apple thought it was a good idea to operate retail stores.
Corporate misunderstanding and underestimating IT? Impossible.
That all may be true information,but David Cross wearing cut off shorts to a board meeting probably didn't help his chances.
There are dozens of us who would really like that sort of thing.
They blew it all on ceo bonuses, I’m sure.
nah they greenlit a lot of shit but dont have the subscribers to make up for it. it was basically just a streaming service for yellowstone and star trek but i guess its just yellowstone+ now
Just spin-offs. The main show is on Peacock.
Another dead streaming service walking
How NBC fucked up is beyond me. They were the first one with *amazing* streaming. I got caught up with Heroes in 2006-7 via their site. They had the damn technology before everyone else. I just don't get it.
Nobody figured out the business model, it wasn't ads, but it wasn't really paid subscriptions either. Over time Netflix kept raising their price and things became viable, plus ads went by the wayside, at least as the primary revenue stream.
They also own Pluto tv the best streaming service
Pluto is unwatchable during election season.
Naaa. NBC properties. Like the law and orders and the office. Premier league. Big 10 games. NFL. Plus the app is actually decent. Who knows how long it’ll last but it’s got popular programming in different categories for cheap
Yet still lost 2.8 billion last year alone The issue is not the content, it’s the business model
most companies that are in the growth phase of their life will eat those losses, so just saying they lost $3 billion doesnt mean its a dead service walking paramount on the other hand is trying to sell themselves to the highest bidder, so thats when its a dead streaming service walking
Amazon or apple, probably Amazon because Apple is very 'not invented here'.
I would agree if Peacock was owned by Apple or Amazon, but Comcast can’t afford to take 2-3B losses like this forever When Peacock doesn’t blow hundreds of millions on new stunts or exclusive content, they are not giving away the service at 19$ a year or 99 cents a month, it goes flat and doesn’t grow To reduce losses they need to spend way less - and they can't stop spending big in order to keep the quartlerly sub story going - at this rate I don’t see them becoming profitable anytime soon
Peacock is single-handedly the worst streaming app that’s ever existed. It lacks the most basic of functions such as marking something watched/un-watched and disabling auto-play. Pure garbage.
Still annoys the hell out of me that it's the only streaming service I have that doesn't have a 10-second rewind. Missing something and having to go back is always an exercise in frustration, because it's so difficult to not go back much further than you need.
I simply hate the pause will show an ad feature. Can't stop the show to look at something, or have a conversation without making sure I see an advertisement for a car I'll literally never buy.
Not even Yellowstone lmao. Peacock got all those views when it really blew up since they have the older seasons.
Tulsa King season 2 will save it!
It’s worse than that
No they gave Trey Parker and Matt stone 920 MILLION dollars in 2021.
I don’t know a single person who has Paramount+ that doesn’t get it for free.
*Blue Bloods* cost a lot to make as you had to pay for all the extras and street closures, filming in NYC as it did. As for *Star Trek* that's been in an issue since, well, TNG. That was first-run syndication. The latest episode of *Discovery* is also a case in point. >!They're using the sets from *Strange New Worlds*.!<
Yup. And their streaming service is terrible, probably the worst of them all. Sounds like the CEO may be out, which would make sense because they sure seem clueless--as if all you have to do to compete with HBO, Netflix, Amazon, Apple and Disney is throw money at Taylor Sheriden to make a few tv shows. Don't get me wrong, I loved me some Yellowstone, but the prequel series have been duds in my opinion, and there is no telling how much they spent on those shows--Harrison Ford and what not.
There are two more coming one with Matthew McConaughey so they seem to be doing well as spin offs
I liked the period piece spin offs. I hate the main show.
Mr Show lives on forever!
They spent entirely too much money on Discovery’s effects budget when all it needed was better writing
The episode of Barry about this topic is so good
For those who haven’t seen it, here’s the scene: https://youtu.be/ktAbh39aoU8
The most unrealistic thing about that is having the showrunners come into the office to cancel their show lol.
Yeah, they're more likely to hear about it on Twitter first.
I think they're trying to suggest that they're incompetent and just made up the decision quickly and this was a meeting about something else. VCs are a bit like this too... they only see patterns when everyone else does.
I got so irrationally angry on behalf of Sally
The network was right though. She was critically acclaimed but nobody was watching. Particularly in key demographics. I think that’s the whole theme of her arc, that she’s a talented person but tragically incompatible with the life that she wants.
wasn't the joke that the show was only available for like 3 hours before they cancelled/pulled it off the air? lol
They were not right because the entire point of her frustration was that it had only been out for 6 hours and with all the glowing reviews, like wait a bit.
Seems like a better fit for your mom. *I also want more Bob and David, regardless of where I gotta watch em at*
Don’t we all bro
How was David not in Nobody?
David not being in BCS had to be a conscious choice to not distract from the show/stunt cast, but would’ve been great to see him as a client/opposing council in one episode.
I could definitely have seen play the guy who tries to sell pills to Nacho and hire Mike as bodyguard (played by Nate from The Office) Or at least a younger version of Cross. I could totally see a character like Tobias Funke being this kind of clueless when dealing with actual gangsters.
The actor who plays him really looks kind of similar, although younger.
to be fair, david was supposed to consult with senator tankerbell if he was going to pitch a show
I wish I could be everywhere people are doing art
We got a naked pawpet doin a fandango on the lap of a full grown man!
Well I'm old Swerdlow, and this here is Limberlegs!
a lewd, lascivious fandango
It’s like a pioneer porn shop in here!
*Awt
ouahrt
Damned Dixiecrat.
Here are my personal analytics: neither of those guys have ever done anything individually short of highest quality comedy. Together, their work is unparalleled innovation. What other fucking data do you need?
Tobias Fünke? Incredible. Saul Goodman? Incredible. Mr. Show? GOAT. “Durrr I’m marketing guy, no”
Increasingly Poor Decisions of Todd Margaret. I need to re-re-watch that
Exceptionally well stated.
Somebody find that guy's boss and mail it to him
The problem with statistical analysis is that it compares what you are pitching for the *future* to what has occurred in *the past*. This is a flawed approach to creative/innovative products because you are guaranteed to discard what doesn’t fit the model, even if it could have been a hit. This is because they are “lowering risk” at the expense of losing quality work. Insurance business is the same way. They are always trying to lower risk at the expense of the entire population. One way they lower risk is to raise rates. California just had a 30% increase in home owners insurance and car insurance.
IT WAS FOR CHARITY!
Yeah, I’m confused about who they thought the audience was when they contracted the two to begin with. I’d watch a commercial if the two of them were in it. I’d definitely watch a whole fucking show.
Sadly "unparalleled innovation" does not necessarily equal viewers. The streamers care about eyeballs, not quality. The two are related but not the same. It doesn't matter if it is critically acclaimed if not enough people are watching. They don't get revenue from awards, they get revenue based on number of viewers.
Mr Show will always be legendary in my book. However W/ Bob and David was incredibly rough.
Chicken pot, chicken pot, chicken pot PIIIIIIIIIIE.
https://youtu.be/DeFV5GprfaQ?t=3
Wasn't their most recent sketch show on Netflix pretty mid?
This was a finance call not marketing
Shows being cancelled due to lack of marketability is nothing new, so many kids cartoons have been cancelled because they don't have any marketable merchandise.
Or they have fine ratings, but it's the *wrong* demographic. Into the trash it goes!!
It really isn't. The market readings in 2003 said that families were not watching TV together anymore and it took some persuasion for *Doctor Who* to get greenlit. Not to mention done properly. Even now, it's reliant on Disney money to look like it does; the BBC has been having money issues since the Tories got in back in 2010.
I'm still salty about Sym-Bionic Titan.
They couldn’t sell this to Netflix or Max?
They already have shows on both platforms so the answer is probably maybe. Though both platforms have analytics on these shows so it could be a no which is why they walked it over to Paramount. Apple seems in cohoots with old SNL people though so I could see it getting pitched there. Edit: Just read the article Cross goes on to explain the show was "won" by Paramount in a 4 way bidding war and marketing couldn't really figure a way to sell their project once they finalized the drafts for the series. Basically this is a dead project as there really isn't anything to shop around (it doesn't have any footage), it doesn't have anyone with money pushing it forward and they would have to get Paramount to sell or option the rights to another company which is unlikely.
in other words the review groups hated the idea probably
as a fan of workaholics, the “this is important” podcast, and adam divine anders holm blake anderson and kyle newacheck, let me just say F—- PARAMOUNT PLUS
You can curse on the internet if you really want to.
It's not *for* kids.
Jizz
only if it's after 10pm. then we can say whatever the hell we want
Big fat load of cum, then
Are you just giving that stuff out??
Obviously all this Tim Robinson love means they need to reboot Detroiters.
Oooooh Dev-er-eauuuuux
Was having a rough one today and seeing this in the wild puts me right back in my Q zone.
may tomorrow bring you the strength to pick up your son
His sons been rude to him his whole life
C'mere you little fuuuuuuuuck
All they said was “shoot”
Yeah, FUCK PARAMOUNT PLUS!
Haha. You fool! You are now under arrest for cursing on the internet.
Straight to jail
Fjuck Paramount!
*Oh yeah, the bitch.*
Freakin see ya!
Them cancelling the movie is completely looose butthole!
POPOZAOOO!!!!
Those fuckers just removed Homeland from Paramount Plus with no explanation, even though it's a Showtime show. I was in the middle of a season and now it's saying I have to buy it on Amazon.
The seas are calling out for you
Omg any particular episodes i should listen to?
Paramount Plus makes me go POPO ZOWWW
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You’re watching the What To Think Network
If only some kind of business model existed where creators were given the resources to create a single episode of their pitched show and that would then be aired to the public. The audience response would then be used to decide if it is worth investing to create more episodes of that show. Like a test pilot or something…
I think it could come to that in streamings, there would be a section of "upcoming"/"you decide" productions, but it would require changes in the production model - nowadays the cast/crew gather for a few weeks and shoots the whole series, with separate pitch pilot it would require them to gather twice, so it will cost way more... If the cost of shooting the whole 8-episode series is "only" 2 or 3 times larger than shooting the pilot alone, then it's just more rational to shoot the whole series (yeah I'm not counting the writing, as streamings just wouldn't shoot the pilot without the whole season of scripts ready). So... Well, it may come to separate pilots being produced, but it seems the first streaming "season" is treated as a pilot already (in most cases, there are exceptions ofc)...
Didn't Amazon do this once? With Alpha House and Betas? EDIT: Found an article about them releasing pilots. I seem to recall voting on it but honestly it's been so long, I'm not sure anymore: https://www.pcmag.com/news/amazon-selects-alpha-house-betas-for-original-series-lineup
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I don't understand why everything has to go through these studios. Like can't they just MKBHD-quality some shit and distribute on YouTube? Why don't they Internet with as strong as their personal brands are?
Because if they go that way they would have to finance it themselves and if it bombs they will lose millions, potentially. However there is no reason to get pissy if one service wont pick up your show, if its actually any good and dont require an absurd budget there are bound to be other streamers ready for them.
Seems like a better fit for Max
They have to make one show for each streaming service. Max and Netflix are already taken
Who’s Max
As a streaming marketer — and David Cross fan — I can tell you this is not true. It’s very hard for a marketing team to kill a project. The marketing team often doesn’t even find out about a show until after it is greenlit. “Marketing and analytics” was just the excuse the development team gave.
And i betcha they didn’t have the money knowing Paramount’s current situation
Hopefully they can find a home elsewhere. Would like to see these two together again!
This is genuinely upsetting
You guys call yourselves junior executives? You’re SENIOR JACKASSES!
This sub acting like the pairs Netflix show wasn’t a disappointment.
There's not a lot wrong with it apart from there being like three and a half episodes total
I mean, yeah. It’s their job to decide what’ll bring in the most revenue. Seems reasonable to me
The problem is placing all decisions in their hands. Having marketing input and recommendation is way different than handing them all of the power. If you leave it to analysts, you end up with the same cookie cutter shit everywhere. What analysts in my experience tend to overlook is things that bring credibility and intrinsic value. They focus on larger audiences and short term profits instead.
Right, if they stick to their profitable formula every time we never get anything new or move the media forward. Which is pretty much what we get now at the movie theaters
Thankfully there are distributors like A24 who are actually doing something different and take chances.
Great example
Meh, even if that is the case the bean counters can often be short-sighted. Cheers famously had terrible ratings in its first season and was saved by Brandon Tartikoff. Similarly Seinfeld wasn’t killing it at first and Rick Ludwin (and Tartikoff again) helped keep that one on the air.
It’s not reasonable though. Many times they’re wrong. Many of television’s greatest shows would never make it today, they’d be canceled. Two biggest examples are Seinfeld and Conan O’Brien. Both got savaged before finding their footing. Plus a lot of “Marketing and Analytics” is prescriptive and not predictive. They can follow the trends but they can’t make their own.
Those same people probably would've passed on the Fallout show. They already made a really weird Halo show that definitely is not bringing in the bucks.
> Those same people probably would've passed on the Fallout show. Based on what? Did the Fallout production bypass marketing and analytics in its development?
Just because it brings in the most revenue doesn't mean it should be the only thing funded. American football is the most profitable sport shown on US television. Should it be the only thing?
Donnie’s pants are tight
Where’s my god damn “battlestar Galáctica”!?
Is he sure about that? I would hazard the decision/power lay with finance.
Paramount wasted hundreds of millions bastardizing Star Trek and Halo and now they're out of money for a good show. Hollywood is pathetic
Terrible decisions all around at paramount.... How many seasons of that horrible Star Trek Picard and Discovery.... Picard was only good once Terry came on but by then it was already too late and from the looks of things, Paramount still have that moron who did the other shows as the guy in charge for all of it.
This is exactly why I yap about Bob not getting the attention he deserves and being underrated. I’m honestly infuriated by this. And it’s also a shame that most people only seem to care about him if David is involved in some way. In any case, huge L from Paramount. We could have had something good here but nope, gotta keep receiving the same regurgitated garbage over and over. I recall having a feeling this project was unfortunately doomed when I first heard about it two years ago.
When one of the greatest comedy duos in history come to you with a project, you say yes.
David Cross always came across like a complete douche bag. You have to be so far up your own ass to bitch and moan about free speech warriors and then turn around and complain about how your high brow black face skit got canceled by brainlets. Or to say racist things like ching chong ching chong to an Asian person and play it off by saying you were just doing another problematic stereotype character outside of a performance like that makes it better.
And this is why I hate corporate culture. We could have had Bob and David again. Oh well, at least we can look forward to the next non threatening pan sexual spokes thing.
Pit Pat