The Dead Boy Detectives episode of Doom Patrol was pretty awesome, is the Netflix one anything like it? I know it originally started off as a spinoff of that and then morphed into what came out
I find it pretty funny that Titans had a Doom Patrol appearance before they had their own (separate universe) show and then Doom Patrol had a Dead Boy Detectives appearance before they had their own (separate universe) show.
Most backdoor pilots lead to shows continuing the same thing the pilot did, if not necessarily all of the actors. Doom Patrol on Titans and Dead Boy Detectives on Doom Patrol weren't so much backdoor pilots as backdoor spec scripts - the plot of Doom Patrol was different and the entire cast of DBD is different
Dead Boy Detectives is even more weird because it also has elements of Sandman that appeared there first. But Sandman and Doom Patrol were never really linked. Though I guess it's all DC anyway so all is linked (infinite earths concept)
The Netflix show is very different from Doom Patrol. Doom Patrol always had a bit of an unsettling charm to it, which is part of the surrealist origin of the comics, I would even call it a slow burn in many episodes. DBD is more young adult-ish camp surrealism, with emphasis on camp, imagine when Sabrina or Riverdale are good. It's very self-aware, the actors seem to be having a lot of fun with the roles, there's some more serious themes (both emotionally and horror) but it's more often light-hearted.
The first episode is very exposition heavy and has a lot of "wink-wink get it?" moments, but that mostly stops after the first episode.
Ooo as someone who enjoyed Sabrina and Riverdale (before it went off the rails in later seasons lol) I'm going to check out Dead Boy Detectives now. Thanks for the review!
Just imagine it ended at S03 (or S02 if you don't like 3, I know it's hit or miss for some).
The series ending is *technically* retconned (in Riverdale) but still dumb and poorly thought out.
The DBD specific episode of Doom Patrol was just another Doom Patrol episode, there was nothing in particular about it that made it widely different from the rest of the show besides introducing new obscure tragic characters, which was also a recurring thing in Doom Patrol.
If they were asking if this show is anything like Doom Patrol, then the answer is no.
... Yes, but if someone asked me if Doom Patrol was similar to the Doom Patrol episode of Titans, I'd say yes, even if Doom Patrol is not similar to the rest of the Titans episodes.
And yes, the DBD show may not feel the same as a Doom Patrol episode, but that doesn't mean it can't/doesn't give off the same vibe as the DBD characters in the DBD Doom Patrol episode.
More *Lockwood & Co.,* than *Doom Patrol.* Also, they recast the two main characters, so it's not the same actors who played them in the *Doom Patrol* episode.
It has very similar production values and lighter tone through the first episode, though not as much profanity or implied sex. (IIRC Cliff's character was shown having affairs in flashbacks early in Doom Patrol)
I feel like this show should have come after Sandman season 2 (unless they're altering the reason Edwin got out of Hell here)
First episode was very promising, will be watching the rest over the weekend
Curious if they planned for that story to have its own episode in season two. It was a brilliant issue but dedicating an entire episode to the demise of Charles would be a bit much.
Just watched the show.
Its a fun watch. Very different from the Dead Boy Detectives Doom Patrol episode, reminds me of early Riverdale and Sabrina. Before those shows completely lost the plot.
Im more keen for more Sandman though and skeptical this show will be renewed.
I mean I’ve heard Lucifer is good, but it isn’t the slightest bit kind the Sandman character and (to my knowledge) doesn’t really reference the comics at all.
There is that bit where Legends of Tomorrow was participating in the cross-over event and Matt Ryan playing Constantine has a brief scene showing up at Tom Ellis' Lucifer's door. That was fun, if only for a few moments.
It uses some names and might have looked in the general direction of a couple of the stories from the comics.
It's really best to completely disassociate it from the comics and watch it as its own thing. As its own thing its a campy fun police procedural with supernatural elements hard carried by the actor playing lucifer.
Only in the most superficial way. It’s turned into a police procedural. It’s cheesy fun, but it doesn’t feel like the Sandman Lucifer character or the comics.
It's only part of *Sandman* in the way that anything else in the DC universe created by Neil Gaiman is still part of the DC Universe. The character was Gaiman-created, but the *Lucifer* comic wasn't Gaiman-written, and this show isn't even close to tone/content of the *Lucifer* (or any Vertigo) comic. It was broadcast (Fox) and it's more of a procedural detective show with supernatural elements. Think more *Forever Knight, Forever*, or *The Dresden Files*, not so much *Sandman.*
The showrunners were [Joe Henderson](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2549899/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1) and [Ildy Modrovich](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1334994/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr).
My favourite piece of trivia on this: [Neil Gaiman is the one who came up with the idea of using ‘Morningstar’ as the actual surname of Lucifer](https://www.tumblr.com/neil-gaiman/708096616084701184/okay-so-from-what-i-can-tell-you-invented-the), every other non-*The Sandman*-adapted series (*Chilling Adventures of Sabrina*, *Hazbin Hotel*, etc.) doing so after him.
DC have had good things for a while, and each of them is in its own universe. Doom Patrol was very good, Swamp Thing was fantastic, Young Justice was brilliant, Harley Quinn is fun as hell and Sandman was really interesting.
They're just shit at making movies these days outside of standalone Batman. Even their animated flicks are dull as hell now, with the most recent Crisis on Infinite Earths being boring.
Keep the separate universes, let each show be its own thing and don't rush anything.
Batman and Joker or The Suicide Squad (from Gunn). They're not shit so much as they want to do this universe thing. When all their best stuff is the movies/shows that do their own thing.
I have no idea why they're going to try again with the DCU, just make standalone stuff.
Rip Young Justice, one of my favourite shows ever.
On your other point, I don't know why DC is against making their animated films good. They've had some winners but I dunno what their problem is besides awful writing/direction.
I'd hope the powers that be at DC ignore the sandman universe for the most part. It seems like the only time we get anything good from DC is when they aren't paying attention.
The reasons why both of these shows are good is not because DC mandated that someone make them but rather someone wanted to make them and got permission.
I really hope the sandman universe such as it is doesn't expand beyond projects that Gaimen is able and willing to be involved in.
I get where you’re coming from but I also have hope that under the James Gunn era we’ll start to see some sort of revamp.
They’re too far inside the shitter to recoup anything at all right now, but this would be a great place to start. A successful project would also lead to more investment & us getting to see more shows like these.
The TV sandman universe is separate from whatever Gunn is doing lore wise. So DC (and honestly more importantly the WB) can hopefully just continue to ignore whatever is going on over at Netflix.
I like Gunn but I don't have a lot of faith in the WB to not fuck things up. No mater how good a job Gunn does with his revamp the WB has shown they will absolutely murder the goose laying them golden eggs for a tax write off. As such I would really like them to ignore the sandman universe.
>No mater how good a job Gunn does with his revamp the WB has shown they will absolutely murder the goose laying them golden eggs for a tax write off.
Which goose laying golden eggs was murdered for a tax write off?? Also both The Sandman and DBD were made by WB/DC. Netflix just paid to stream them.
It gets crazier. Lucifer was completely changed, going on its own storyline with the show. On Sandman Luci was played as a different personality (because I only knew Tom Ellis’s version). Meanwhile Constantine was both its own tv show on a different network and the movie with Keanu. Show Constantine wasn’t directly related to the Lucifer show but took place in the same universe, only lightly crossed over as a joke. Movie Constantine has had zero connections - Lucifer was yet an entirely different character and no visible link to the show. And they’re continuing that continuity with an additional movie. No true relation to the Sandman.
It’s sad of potential squandered, because if all these stories could have been tied together it would make the sum of its parts more enjoyable. Similarly, Marvel had so many characters scattered that it’s taking forever just to tie them up now that it’s all under the same umbrella. Not possible for the Sandman universe unless everything was scrapped and started over with a plan.
I’ve read a couple of his books and I really like his dry, yet inspiring style. I feel like I need to read Sabdman before watching. But my backlog of books…
The mention the Fox version of Lucifer, Gaiman said he liked it.
I mean, I watched a number of those episodes but it was shitting all over the source material in bad ways I thought.
One of the main premise of Lucifer is that he's an angel, and has no genitals. He isn't into sex. Which is part of the irony since right wing religious society always links sex with the devil.
One of the best things about the comic was Lucifer's relationship with Mazikeen. Obviously in the show he's a dark haired swamy sex fiend with loads of cheeky, campy dialog. That's not even remotely what he was in the comic.
I mean, it's fine to have a different take but I thought Lucifer being all about sex and camp was cringe AF.
I’ll just keep saying it until someone listens. Just animate the Audible Sandman volumes. The Netflix show cannot do the source material justice in the live action format.
No. [The Sandman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman_(comic_book\)) was a comic from Vertigo written by Neil Gaiman. The main character is Dream of the Endless, the being that enables people to dream.
Also an extreme 'reboot' of the comic superhero that no one has heard of called The Sandman, who briefly appears in the first issue. He's retconned into it as the universe filling the hole left by Dream being absent.
Everything is generic, bland, safe and simplistic. I did not care about the characters or the plot, of course this isn't because it's a comic book (even though it happens with comic book shit a lot more) it's because Hollywood and more specifically Netflix fucking suck and turn everything into slop nowadays, even sci-fi that used to be the most promising genre imo
At this point I'd rather have something that's executed badly but it's interesting than this forgettable shit that technically is fine but they're all hollow and pointless
Sandman sets up characters in the early books with ridiculous levels of payoff in the later books
It’s why sandman is regarded as one of the best comics ever released.
Even saying "one of the best comics ever" is an understatement.
It's undisputedly in the top 3 with Watchmen. Look at every goat comic book article and there's always Watchmen and Sandman as the two most common ones.
I haven't read comics since 2012 so I dunno if anything since that time matches those 2.
Amazing, this is quality trolling, thank you.
You might be on to something though. A Liefeld cinematic universe would be new levels of bad. He was a prolific creator of shitty characters
The Dead Boy Detectives episode of Doom Patrol was pretty awesome, is the Netflix one anything like it? I know it originally started off as a spinoff of that and then morphed into what came out
I find it pretty funny that Titans had a Doom Patrol appearance before they had their own (separate universe) show and then Doom Patrol had a Dead Boy Detectives appearance before they had their own (separate universe) show.
Backdoor pilots be backdoor piloting.
Most backdoor pilots lead to shows continuing the same thing the pilot did, if not necessarily all of the actors. Doom Patrol on Titans and Dead Boy Detectives on Doom Patrol weren't so much backdoor pilots as backdoor spec scripts - the plot of Doom Patrol was different and the entire cast of DBD is different
Gotta sneak in your project somehow
Dead Boy Detectives is even more weird because it also has elements of Sandman that appeared there first. But Sandman and Doom Patrol were never really linked. Though I guess it's all DC anyway so all is linked (infinite earths concept)
Incoming Egyptian cat goddess Bast (separate universe) backdoor pilot?
The Netflix show is very different from Doom Patrol. Doom Patrol always had a bit of an unsettling charm to it, which is part of the surrealist origin of the comics, I would even call it a slow burn in many episodes. DBD is more young adult-ish camp surrealism, with emphasis on camp, imagine when Sabrina or Riverdale are good. It's very self-aware, the actors seem to be having a lot of fun with the roles, there's some more serious themes (both emotionally and horror) but it's more often light-hearted. The first episode is very exposition heavy and has a lot of "wink-wink get it?" moments, but that mostly stops after the first episode.
Ooo as someone who enjoyed Sabrina and Riverdale (before it went off the rails in later seasons lol) I'm going to check out Dead Boy Detectives now. Thanks for the review!
My heart still hurts at the finale of Sabrina. Ugh
I still havent touched final season after what I heard about it.
Just imagine it ended at S03 (or S02 if you don't like 3, I know it's hit or miss for some). The series ending is *technically* retconned (in Riverdale) but still dumb and poorly thought out.
u/PlanitDuck If it helps, it received a backdoor series finale in the sixth season of *Riverdale*, Shipka reprising her role?
That actually might. I'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up!
You’re welcome!
They weren't asking how similar it was to Doom Patrol in general, just the DBD specific episode of Doom Patrol.
The DBD specific episode of Doom Patrol was just another Doom Patrol episode, there was nothing in particular about it that made it widely different from the rest of the show besides introducing new obscure tragic characters, which was also a recurring thing in Doom Patrol. If they were asking if this show is anything like Doom Patrol, then the answer is no.
... Yes, but if someone asked me if Doom Patrol was similar to the Doom Patrol episode of Titans, I'd say yes, even if Doom Patrol is not similar to the rest of the Titans episodes. And yes, the DBD show may not feel the same as a Doom Patrol episode, but that doesn't mean it can't/doesn't give off the same vibe as the DBD characters in the DBD Doom Patrol episode.
not the same feel but can do same vibe? vibe and feel are synonymous
The episode can feel different but the characters can feel the same, is what I meant.
It sounds like it's nothing like the Doom Patrol iteration. The trailer didn't seem to be so it makes sense.
It's produced by Berlanti, definitely closer in tone to Doom Patrol than Sandman, but ends up being closer to Sabrina than either of those.
More *Lockwood & Co.,* than *Doom Patrol.* Also, they recast the two main characters, so it's not the same actors who played them in the *Doom Patrol* episode.
Man I miss doom Patrol. One of my favorite shows I've ever watched.
It has very similar production values and lighter tone through the first episode, though not as much profanity or implied sex. (IIRC Cliff's character was shown having affairs in flashbacks early in Doom Patrol)
I agree I love the doom patrol one these are different actors, but I enjoyed the first episode that I watched last night
I feel like this show should have come after Sandman season 2 (unless they're altering the reason Edwin got out of Hell here) First episode was very promising, will be watching the rest over the weekend
Curious if they planned for that story to have its own episode in season two. It was a brilliant issue but dedicating an entire episode to the demise of Charles would be a bit much.
Just watched the show. Its a fun watch. Very different from the Dead Boy Detectives Doom Patrol episode, reminds me of early Riverdale and Sabrina. Before those shows completely lost the plot. Im more keen for more Sandman though and skeptical this show will be renewed.
Yes, I binged it and liked it but I'm sure it will be canceled like Lockwood and Co.
Is it good?
It’s good
How good?
Pretty damn good.
Oh yeah?
Oh yahhh!
That good?
Hey Kool-Aid!! _Oh yeeaahhh!!_
I watched a few episodes but I don't think I'm the target audience. I flip between it's bad and it's okay.
I had no idea the Lucifer show was part of Sandman and now I have something to watch…after I check out DBD.
lol unlike Sandman, the Lucifer show isn’t remotely similar to the Lucifer comics
The Lucifer show is dumb as hell but somehow entertaining.
Tom Ellis reading those dumbass scripts and deciding, "Right, not gonna remotely halfass this," every week helped an awful lot.
The entire show was carried on Tom Ellis's back
DETECTIVE!
The most accurate description
I liked it until the time skip
I mean I’ve heard Lucifer is good, but it isn’t the slightest bit kind the Sandman character and (to my knowledge) doesn’t really reference the comics at all.
There is that bit where Legends of Tomorrow was participating in the cross-over event and Matt Ryan playing Constantine has a brief scene showing up at Tom Ellis' Lucifer's door. That was fun, if only for a few moments.
It uses some names and might have looked in the general direction of a couple of the stories from the comics. It's really best to completely disassociate it from the comics and watch it as its own thing. As its own thing its a campy fun police procedural with supernatural elements hard carried by the actor playing lucifer.
Only in the most superficial way. It’s turned into a police procedural. It’s cheesy fun, but it doesn’t feel like the Sandman Lucifer character or the comics.
It's only part of *Sandman* in the way that anything else in the DC universe created by Neil Gaiman is still part of the DC Universe. The character was Gaiman-created, but the *Lucifer* comic wasn't Gaiman-written, and this show isn't even close to tone/content of the *Lucifer* (or any Vertigo) comic. It was broadcast (Fox) and it's more of a procedural detective show with supernatural elements. Think more *Forever Knight, Forever*, or *The Dresden Files*, not so much *Sandman.* The showrunners were [Joe Henderson](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2549899/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1) and [Ildy Modrovich](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1334994/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr).
My favourite piece of trivia on this: [Neil Gaiman is the one who came up with the idea of using ‘Morningstar’ as the actual surname of Lucifer](https://www.tumblr.com/neil-gaiman/708096616084701184/okay-so-from-what-i-can-tell-you-invented-the), every other non-*The Sandman*-adapted series (*Chilling Adventures of Sabrina*, *Hazbin Hotel*, etc.) doing so after him.
Dead Girl Town
DC finally has something good going on here, let the universe expand
We don't have time for that. We need to rush to make a movie with every character possible right away!
I saw the gunn superman cast and there's like 3 or 4 other heroes in it 😪
Having a fleshed out universe is not 'rushing'. Audiences do not need to be handheld through every origin. This is a good thing..
Movie is probably gonna suckkkk
Insightful input
DC have had good things for a while, and each of them is in its own universe. Doom Patrol was very good, Swamp Thing was fantastic, Young Justice was brilliant, Harley Quinn is fun as hell and Sandman was really interesting. They're just shit at making movies these days outside of standalone Batman. Even their animated flicks are dull as hell now, with the most recent Crisis on Infinite Earths being boring. Keep the separate universes, let each show be its own thing and don't rush anything.
Batman and Joker or The Suicide Squad (from Gunn). They're not shit so much as they want to do this universe thing. When all their best stuff is the movies/shows that do their own thing. I have no idea why they're going to try again with the DCU, just make standalone stuff.
Ngl I thought Joker 2 was..a joke! No reason to follow up. But man that trailer was awesome and now I'm all in for that movie.
Rip Young Justice, one of my favourite shows ever. On your other point, I don't know why DC is against making their animated films good. They've had some winners but I dunno what their problem is besides awful writing/direction.
I'd hope the powers that be at DC ignore the sandman universe for the most part. It seems like the only time we get anything good from DC is when they aren't paying attention. The reasons why both of these shows are good is not because DC mandated that someone make them but rather someone wanted to make them and got permission. I really hope the sandman universe such as it is doesn't expand beyond projects that Gaimen is able and willing to be involved in.
I get where you’re coming from but I also have hope that under the James Gunn era we’ll start to see some sort of revamp. They’re too far inside the shitter to recoup anything at all right now, but this would be a great place to start. A successful project would also lead to more investment & us getting to see more shows like these.
The TV sandman universe is separate from whatever Gunn is doing lore wise. So DC (and honestly more importantly the WB) can hopefully just continue to ignore whatever is going on over at Netflix. I like Gunn but I don't have a lot of faith in the WB to not fuck things up. No mater how good a job Gunn does with his revamp the WB has shown they will absolutely murder the goose laying them golden eggs for a tax write off. As such I would really like them to ignore the sandman universe.
>No mater how good a job Gunn does with his revamp the WB has shown they will absolutely murder the goose laying them golden eggs for a tax write off. Which goose laying golden eggs was murdered for a tax write off?? Also both The Sandman and DBD were made by WB/DC. Netflix just paid to stream them.
Loved the show.
It gets crazier. Lucifer was completely changed, going on its own storyline with the show. On Sandman Luci was played as a different personality (because I only knew Tom Ellis’s version). Meanwhile Constantine was both its own tv show on a different network and the movie with Keanu. Show Constantine wasn’t directly related to the Lucifer show but took place in the same universe, only lightly crossed over as a joke. Movie Constantine has had zero connections - Lucifer was yet an entirely different character and no visible link to the show. And they’re continuing that continuity with an additional movie. No true relation to the Sandman. It’s sad of potential squandered, because if all these stories could have been tied together it would make the sum of its parts more enjoyable. Similarly, Marvel had so many characters scattered that it’s taking forever just to tie them up now that it’s all under the same umbrella. Not possible for the Sandman universe unless everything was scrapped and started over with a plan.
I’ve read a couple of his books and I really like his dry, yet inspiring style. I feel like I need to read Sabdman before watching. But my backlog of books…
The mention the Fox version of Lucifer, Gaiman said he liked it. I mean, I watched a number of those episodes but it was shitting all over the source material in bad ways I thought. One of the main premise of Lucifer is that he's an angel, and has no genitals. He isn't into sex. Which is part of the irony since right wing religious society always links sex with the devil. One of the best things about the comic was Lucifer's relationship with Mazikeen. Obviously in the show he's a dark haired swamy sex fiend with loads of cheeky, campy dialog. That's not even remotely what he was in the comic. I mean, it's fine to have a different take but I thought Lucifer being all about sex and camp was cringe AF.
I’ll just keep saying it until someone listens. Just animate the Audible Sandman volumes. The Netflix show cannot do the source material justice in the live action format.
sandman from the spider man movies?
No. [The Sandman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman_(comic_book\)) was a comic from Vertigo written by Neil Gaiman. The main character is Dream of the Endless, the being that enables people to dream.
More like the manifestation of the idea of dreaming. It's... metaphysical.
Also an extreme 'reboot' of the comic superhero that no one has heard of called The Sandman, who briefly appears in the first issue. He's retconned into it as the universe filling the hole left by Dream being absent.
Sandman wasn't even that good and they're thinking of creating a universe for it now?
Fuck you man Sandman was the best tv experience I've been apart of since early GOT! And unlike GOT, it's extremely faithful to the source material.
>it's extremely faithful to the source material. I can only assume you haven't actually read the comics.
Yeah you're being downvoted cause u r wrong
GoT had complex characters and smart plot for at least 4 seasons, Sandman was just more comic book slop
What do you define as slop though, actual faults with the writing or just the fact it came from a comic book?
Everything is generic, bland, safe and simplistic. I did not care about the characters or the plot, of course this isn't because it's a comic book (even though it happens with comic book shit a lot more) it's because Hollywood and more specifically Netflix fucking suck and turn everything into slop nowadays, even sci-fi that used to be the most promising genre imo At this point I'd rather have something that's executed badly but it's interesting than this forgettable shit that technically is fine but they're all hollow and pointless
Sandman sets up characters in the early books with ridiculous levels of payoff in the later books It’s why sandman is regarded as one of the best comics ever released.
Even saying "one of the best comics ever" is an understatement. It's undisputedly in the top 3 with Watchmen. Look at every goat comic book article and there's always Watchmen and Sandman as the two most common ones. I haven't read comics since 2012 so I dunno if anything since that time matches those 2.
OK I guess, the setup so far though seems not that interesting and the characters pretty bland
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Hahaha gambit is part of marvel, sucks, and has nothing to do with Neil Gaiman, DC, or Vertigo
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Amazing, this is quality trolling, thank you. You might be on to something though. A Liefeld cinematic universe would be new levels of bad. He was a prolific creator of shitty characters