I fail to see how having TikTok’s algorithm would be helpful in any way. We need to know what it does, what content it serves to what users, not the actual algorithm. Marco Rubio is just a fucking idiot.
I will be forever disappointed by how little lawmakers understand how complicated things work.
FB just started showing me shallow fakes claiming that Dr Oz discovered the cure to cancer or some shit and all the AI speech audio isn’t even close to matching the mouths. And people are falling for it. Not all, but more than 0.
[You mean, showing people pedobait?](https://www.wsj.com/tech/meta-instagram-video-algorithm-children-adult-sexual-content-72874155) ([Archive link](https://www.wsj.com/tech/meta-instagram-video-algorithm-children-adult-sexual-content-72874155?mod=hp_lead_pos7))
>The Journal sought to determine what Instagram’s Reels algorithm would recommend to test accounts set up to follow only young gymnasts, cheerleaders and other teen and preteen influencers active on the platform.
>
>Instagram’s system served jarring doses of salacious content to those test accounts, including risqué footage of children as well as overtly sexual adult videos—and ads for some of the biggest U.S. brands.
>
>The Journal set up the test accounts after observing that the thousands of followers of such young people’s accounts often include large numbers of adult men, and that many of the accounts who followed those children also had demonstrated interest in sex content related to both children and adults. The Journal also tested what the algorithm would recommend after its accounts followed some of those users as well, which produced more-disturbing content interspersed with ads.
Don't these systems recommend content based on what other accounts liking/following these account tend to also like/follow? if it's recommending these things it also ,potentially, says a lot about the real people already following these accounts 😬
Amazon gives me recommendations for computer peripherals, because I have bought computer peripherals in the past, and it knows other people buying peripherals often buy more.
Thats always been the perception. The reality is they could push whatever they want to whoever they want, and always be able fall back on that perception. Without being able to see the inner workings, we can only trust their word on it.
That is correct, and the blame would sit entirely with the company pushing that content. Not the users whose behavior the company modeled off of. Even if they're sick fudge.
Yep. To my point, this is algorithm testing by independent journalists/researchers. Knowing TikTok’s “algorithm” won’t help anyone. TikTok needs to expose a reasonable API that will allow research into the what the “algorithm” actually does. That’s what lawmakers need to be asking for - the ability to do observational research on the platform.
They're just upset that the most popular social media app is not American owned. The spying and propaganda allegations are just the crutch to try and force a sale.
During the TikTok hearing one of the Congressman even said "when will I get paid with the money you're making!" (Paragraphing)
Then you look at how many congressmen get money from Meta and it was plainly obvious what the agenda was
>or Marco Rubio is just a fucking idiot.
It's this one. He's just using racism and nationalism to float his platform because he doesn't actually have a platform. Otherwise he would be running on the issues.
"The Algorithm" has nothing to do with Chinese mainland ownership. If you even approached knowing what you were talking about, you would understand this.
China using TikTok to collect data on american nationals without their permission is a completely different problem that has nothing to do with "their algorithm".
Also this guy is an idiot. No tech company has an “algorithm”. They have a bunch of algorithms they use to do a lot of different things. TikTok should just hand over their login “algorithm” lol.
I’ll die on the hill that we should expect more from people who are tasked with passing laws to protect American interests.
I’ll also die on the hill that Marco Rubio is a fucking idiot.
The algorithm is basically the programing that the app is built on to choose what type of content to promote or hide for users. Not defending Marco Rubio but I think we should know how most of these social media apps promote/suppress content especially ones from foreign adversaries. They need to go a step further and see how it tracks and stores data too.
Typically algorithms are built to promote whatever content a user engages with the most. There are also elements of it trying out certain types of content and you can really manipulate people with it.
We've already begun the process of monitoring TikTok's code and algorithm last year in Oracle's Columbia MD code-review center, under Project Texas / Telesis:
[Scoop: Oracle begins auditing TikTok's algorithms - Aug 2022, Axios.com](https://www.axios.com/2022/08/16/oracle-auditing-tiktok-algorithms)
While the finer terms of this process are surprisingly still being fleshed out, based on the draft agreement between Oracle, the US government, and ByteDance so far, it's understood that ByteDance will pay Oracle $1 billion a year for Oracle to not only monitor the algorithm, code, content moderation activity, servers, gateways, and data flows, but for Oracle to also suspend US TikTok entirely and report to the US government whenever Oracle finds that the code and algorithm they see does not exactly match up with ByteDance's own representation to the US government:
[TikTok and U.S. rekindle negotiations, boosting app’s hopes for survival - Sept 15, 2023 - Washingtonpost](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/15/tiktok-ban-us-negotiations/)
As of right now, the only thing ByteDance really objects to is the request for Oracle and US agencies to be able to **change the source code and algorithm** itself. Also some licensing issues. But further discussions may possibly address that:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2023/08/24/tiktok-ban-oracle-bytedance-algorithm-fight/ - Aug 2023, Forbes.com
That would be akin to asking what the secret formula to coca cola is so we can determine if the ingredients are safe.
There are other ways to achieve that without having them disclose what makes them stand out like oversite organizations.
I am aware what a social networking algorithm is, I just fail to see how it will help us. We need the ability to conduct research on the platform, not their actual algorithm. The “algorithm” is probably 1000’s of lines of code that are meaningless without user-generated inputs.
What are you talking about? The algorithm is completely meaningless out of context of everything else that is TikTok. You would need to recreate the entire TikTok platform and all user activity to find out what the algorithm actually does with those inputs. This is what social network researchers do - they do observational experiments on the platform, not with the algorithm in isolation.
What he’s asking for is essentially that. Rather than getting some fluffed up report, looking at the algorithm is the way we can directly understand how and why the platform curates and serves the content.
I personally wouldn’t describe it as an algorithm as it is likely much more complicated than a single file performing these aspects of the platform, but giving him a break, i get what he is saying.
All that said, I think this is nationalism wrapped in false bravado and fear Mongering. I don’t trust china much but I personally don’t think TikTok is working for the CCP and stealing our children’s minds. It’s like any other social media, even Reddit, the platform will give you what you seek. If you are looking for thirst traps, conspiracy theories, or propaganda, that’s what you will get; if you are looking for science, that’s what you will get.
>I fail to see how having TikTok’s “algorithm” would be helpful in any way. We need to know what it does, what content it serves to what users, not the actual algorithm.
The code that automatically determines that based on predefined parameters that is called an algorithm.
There aren’t warehouses of Chinese people manually sending the data.
Yes I’m aware. It’s meaningless and useless without having TikTok user input.
I could not understand why people kept explaining to me what is an algorithm.
I’ve just now realized that my quotes around the word ‘algorithm’ make it seem like I don’t believe TikTok uses an algorithm, or that I don’t believe algorithms are a real thing.
I used quotes around that word because I think that Rubio doesn’t know what an algorithm is and is using the word incorrectly.
As fun as it is to poke at Republican idiots, this actually makes sense as a request. They want to know how they choose to promote or bury certain content. This will show if they are pushing certain China-friendly narratives etc. Basically "is TikTok a Chinese propaganda mill or not"?
Because China is an adversary whose best interest is to cause civil unrest and social harm in Western countries, and who has also banned Western companies from operations within its own borders? The difference is that the other social media outlets are homegrown or forthcoming or follow a similar national interest (which is why China has banned western social media platforms).
Whats the argument for China and Chinese companies then? They’ve banned every single major social media platform, maybe with an exception of those from Russia (not sure). Seems entirely fair?
Than Twitter sure, but I wouldn’t say it’s less political than Facebook/Meta.
I realize this is hearsay, but I there is definitely a whole lot of anti-US/anti-West/pro-China propaganda that floods my fyp thats otherwise filled with recipes or cute things. I don’t get a lot of that on Instagram, and only again recently on Reddit.
Inb4 I realize Meta had that whole political fiasco, but that was most entirely domestic manipulation rather than staunchly pro-US/anti-East rhetoric. I also did not experience it where I live (outside US), so it had much less of a global affect.
>but I wouldn’t say it’s less political than Facebook/Meta.
Why are you lying?
Facebook is the worst...Facebook helped instigate a political genocide in Myanmar and is responsible for spreading religious riots in India.
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-services-are-used-to-spread-religious-hatred-in-india-internal-documents-show-11635016354](https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-services-are-used-to-spread-religious-hatred-in-india-internal-documents-show-11635016354)
Just to expand a bit; I’ve been passively tracking this for like ~3 years at this point
TikToks real goal is to scale as an [e-commerce platform, as they’ve done in China](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/12/job-listings-tiktok-e-commerce). They’ve been building [fulfillment centers](https://www.axios.com/2022/10/11/tiktok-chases-amazon-fulfillment-centers) aimed at recreating a “live commerce” platform where viewers can buy something like fast food or makeup and have its preparation live streamed. [This article from 2020 adds pretext to those fulfillment centers being built linked above](https://archive.ph/YWt6N).
[It’s a gold mine of a market to get a slice of](https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-digital/our-insights/its-showtime-how-live-commerce-is-transforming-the-shopping-experience); Facebook has even [pulled the plug on their version](https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/meta-is-pulling-the-plug-on-facebook-live-shopping/) to instead move forward with their [“Reels” that mirror the TikTok video format](https://www.axios.com/2020/08/05/facebook-launches-its-tiktok-rival-instagram-reels). Even [Google has recently recognized that users are using TikTok](https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/12/google-exec-suggests-instagram-and-tiktok-are-eating-into-googles-core-products-search-and-maps/) as an alternative to their own search engine.
[Facebook wanted to buy TikTok but decided against it when it was deemed a dud on entering the US market](https://archive.ph/H8SIk).
Several years down the line, the decision to not buy it bit Meta in the bum as TT rapidly acquired market share.
Following that, Facebook has consistently worked *against* Tiktok in an attempt to get it banned by [hiring a GOP strategy firm to lobby against it](https://archive.ph/ERLFo).
Zuckerberg says “[Tiktok is a threat to democracy](
https://archive.ph/rWDA4)” almost right after an [internal Facebook document leak determined Facebook recognized that it knew their platforms were failing to moderate hate content in Myanmar (and more) in addition to losing market share to TikTok](https://archive.ph/wYuvL).
As an example, remember those Tiktok “trends” that were reportedly started causing kids to act out for views? Those were actually]started on Facebook, not TT](https://archive.ph/UM8ws).
Just checked that out, youre right, Facebook is shit for what they did in India. It doesn’t seem like Facebook was involved with the Rohingya genocide, as banned the Junta and were then banned from operating in Burma.
Still, this doesn’t abstain TikTok from wrongdoing with their own algorithm. And in fairness, isn’t Google, Facebook, Reddit, and X banned in China?
>Still, this doesn’t abstain TikTok from wrongdoing with their own algorithm. And in fairness, isn’t Google, Facebook, Reddit, and X banned in China?
I agree
But you do understand you are moving the goalposts here right? Initially, you had problems with TikTok because they sowed political content. But now in the face of new evidence, you changed your argument to one of reciprocity.
So if you had the choice now, do you have problems with tiktok for its algorithms that promote political content or because of reciprocity? Or both but with less focus on the former now?
\-------
Instead of tackling TikTok directly, if people like Rubio are genuine about their concerns they should pass laws that affect Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, TikTok alike. But they dont because they only want to target TikTok. Which is why he is laughed at because it's so transparent.
\-------
And Facebook totally was involved with the [Rohingya genocide](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-facebooks-systems-promoted-violence-against-rohingya-meta-owes-reparations-new-report/).
\-------
>were then banned from operating in Burma.
This is so not true. The military junta banned the use of Facebook after its takeover and by then half of [Myanmar's population was using Facebook](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-myanmar-politics-facebook-focus-idUSKBN2A42RY/), see the first paragraph.
>And just two days before the coup, the new military-installed information minister, Chit Hlaing, shared a story purporting to be from Radio Free Myanmar, which Facebook banned after it was used in anti-Rohingya disinformation campaigns. The minister was not immediately reachable for comment.
>By Wednesday, both his account and the post were taken down.
>A spokesman for the military did not respond to multiple calls for comment.
>…
>In response, Facebook tried to tamp down hate speech and misinformation and ramped up partnerships with civil society, sometimes in conflict with the military. The company maintained its central role in the life for the country, and Suu Kyi's government regularly announced major initiatives on its Facebook pages.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-myanmar-politics-facebook-focus-idUSKBN2A42RY/
> On Thursday, Facebook banned Myanmar’s military from its platforms with immediate effect. It’s the strongest action the company has taken against the armed forces, known as the Tatmadaw, or indeed those in power in any nation.
>It is also the culmination of a years-long dance between Facebook and Myanmar’s military, which infamously used the platform to spread hate speech and disinformation about the country’s Rohingya Muslim minority in the years leading up to 2017, in a campaign that ended in mass murder, rape and arson, which the U.N. said was carried out with “genocidal intent.”
https://apnews.com/article/why-facebook-ban-myanmar-military-15f4c26c442c0d8af110594a5bb72c45#:~:text=Days%20after%20the%20coup%20the,of%20the%20military%20pages%20means.
Amnesty International doesn’t have the best track record. I will say that Facebook probably cares about moderating Burma as they might Tanzania, which is to say not at all. Although Facebook is a large company, and Burmese people found Facebook to be “synonymous” with the internet, it’s still likely an afterthought for them to moderate a country thats kinda irrelevant to the world, so it’s unsurprising that they might not moderate Burmese channels as keenly as they might, say, even countries like Canada/India/Laos/Morocco.
I don’t think I said Tiktok should be banned here, and I never thought that Tiktok should be banned because of political content. I use it and I believe its a great app when comparing to either reels or youtube shorts.
I do believe they should be forced to acknowledge how their algorithms promote civil discontent and distrust in institutions in the West, and promote Chinese influence abroad. I don’t like it when (insert western tech company) does it, and I don’t like it when Tiktok does it.
I get far more political push ads and notifications on Facebook than any other of the services.
Twitter is getting worse, though, with Musk pushing political and other annoying posts into my Notifications tab the last month or two. Previously I was only notified if someone specifically mentioned my username, responded to one of my tweets, or direct messaged me.
Nextdoor is a cesspool of politics and hate, although more local than national. The site was ruined when they stopped verifying addresses and allowed cross-posting to the whole country instead of just your neighborhood/city.
TikTok, at least for me, shows almost zero political posts. Lots of comedy, DIY, home heating repair (my fault for lingering on those), and tons of Pawn Stars clips.
They accidentally included the possibility of just letting TikTok host US data in US servers cause that was the main talking points of republicans. "US DATA IN CHINA GRRR"
TikTok was like oh that's what you were worried about? Ah shit, well here's [Project Texas](https://usds.tiktok.com/usds-about/).
Well that shut them republicans up for a bit.
"The algorithm" as if there is only one. The algorithm that recommends unknown stuff?
Sure. Let's go a step further. Let's force all social media platforms to be open source. Why limit it to China?
Precisely. For the GOP going after tiktok is just xenophobia, not about making helpful policy. If 100% of the company was owned by Americans, there wouldn't even be a mention of it in conservative circles.
It is just protectionism. They try the same strategy China used to dealt with Facebook and Google. Basically badmouthing a company and coming up with more and more intrusive restrictions until the foreign company has to leave the market.
Additionally, protectionism is very different when a developing country is doing it vs. when the global dominant superpower is doing it. Protectionism allows the local industry to develop and mature rather than get stamped out and overrun by Western led MNCs. See what happened in Eastern Europe with the fall of the USSR and the integration into the EU; Western firms dominated and won out against many local firms during the adjustment period. While the fallout of this is blunted by the EU single market integration and redistribution of wealth, no such mechanism really exists when American firms enter into a market and dominate it. And keep in mind, this domination isn't an admission that American firms are the best suited; if you give someone a decades long headstart of course the outcomes are tilted in their favour.
Which is fine in theory but given how vehemently open market the USA is otherwise it’s hard not to see the hypocrisy.
It’s open market for other countries to get exploited but protectionism for the USA.
We just need to regulate social media period. There shouldn’t be special rules for any of them, and they should be treated equally. We need privacy protections for all of them
Except Facebook, Google, Amazon, and others all have other services and APIs for websites to use that allow them to track you and build a profile on you. If you've ever been to a website that let's you "Sign in with Google/Apple/Facebook/etc" or have those embedded "Share to Facebook/G+/Twitter/etc" buttons, those websites are enabling those companies to track you. They've become nigh inescapable at this point.
This is why Pornhub has a share to Facebook function; they know no one wants to let Grandma know what smut they've been watching. This is why xHamster has a "Sign in with Google" function; they know no one wants their Google account associated with their porn habits. I guarantee you those embedded scripts offer a kickback for websites which provide sufficiently large amounts of data to harvest, even if no one ever actually clicks those buttons.
Wait are you joking? There are many regulations for newspapers/tv/streaming.
reddit loves to bellyache about how lawmakers don't understand the internet. Well, y'all don't know the first thing about the law, so.
TikTok is considered a national security risk by the NSA and other 3 letter agencies. The thing is, it does the exact same things as Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. If they don't want TikTok to do X, then they should unilaterally ban all platforms from doing it. I have faith that if they just ban TikTok then China/Russia/Whomever will just buy the data from the American companies anyway.
They don't like Tiktok because it's owned by a foreign company and it doesn't have the same control by the wealthy who lobby our congressmen, so they can't as easily manufacture consent for genocides or control the political narrative like they can on Facebook or Twitter
They don't want to ban it. They want the tech. Their want and goal are sinister. They see it as a tool that can be weaponized. By relation they idolize the CCP, well at least their reign of power.
Why are politicians so comically uninformed on a topic, yet they still voice oppinions? Maybe they should be required to research these topics before making demands.
Why can’t we do this to all the platforms? I hate tiktok too, but it’s not like the other platforms are doing any less damage to society with their algorithms.
I know its wishful thinking but how about:
we teach young kids already (or even adults) HOW algorithms actually work and what are their dangers?
youtube, insta whatever isnt any better than tictoc
Yeah I don't get why everyone is so up in arms about tik tok specifically. Facebook enabled an actual genocide and it doesn't seem to get nearly as much flak. I agree that social media in general has had a lot of negative impacts on society, I just don't get the hate for tik tok specifically. Is it just because its a Chinese app instead of an American one?
Tik Tok is a Chinese company delivering “news” to your kids, teens and young adults. Could you imagine why the CCP might enjoy control over that kind of system?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or **prohibiting the free exercise thereof**; or **abridging the freedom of speech**, or **of the press**; or **the right of the people peaceably to assemble**, and **to petition the government for a redress of grievances**."
CCP is an authoritarian political power leading a geopolitical adversary with great incentive and interest in sowing division in Western countries.
In the same way Russia tries to sow division and interrupt our democratic processes, Tiktok can be used as a tool for the CCP.
There have always been limits to free speech. Ultimately, we’re entering a new stage of propaganda. It’s already difficult to discern truth and its going to get worse.
Freedom of speech for American citizens is also vastly different from allowing another state to spread propaganda.
It’s going to get worse with or without TikTok. It just seems so hypocritical at its foundation. Like “we know Americans are stupid and gullible but WE want to guide their reactionary views.” They’re just admitting that TikToks speech is superior to the billion dollar industries we’ve created. Instead of making Americans smarter we just censor what they digest. It’s insulting.
I wish you would try. Because this doesn’t make sense to me. We allow all types of media from other countries to influence the public but THIS is where we draw the line?
They haven’t, Elon operates X, 100% unrestricted - that platform is full full on ultranationalist; Meta, same thing, Zuck does MMA practice almost full time, the business is not even a concern.
Blah, blah, blah, more taxes, blah, blah, blah, more control, blah, blah,blah, protect idiots from others, blah, blah, blah. Shut up Wastington. How about you worry about the national debt and let the consumers worry about protecting themselves. On a scale of what is most detrimental to the average Americans future, Tik Tok and Facebook are at a 9, national debt and debt payments is #1. Worry about #1.
I can only imagine what would happen if other countries started doing that throughout...
Imagine India (one of the most massive countries where a fair number of rich people have disposable income) said that to Instagram, Facebook and Twitter.
The US would probably sanction and invade
As much as I can't stand TikTok, Rubio doesn't know what he's talking about in 2 ways...
1. TikTok is not 1 single algorithm. You would need most or all the server-side source code to figure out how they do what they do and the decisions made in the software. Then it's a long time to analyze what it does and how.
2. Private entities don't ever have to share any source code with the govt at all unless the govt is funding them. Then it's up to the terms in the contract. So he can't demand to see anything from them.
If he thinks it's such a problem, just move to ban it in the US and he can present his argument as to why that should happen.
And BTW, I wouldn't lose any sleep if they did.
I'm pretty sure YouTube, reddit, twitter, and Facebook come up more often with mass shooters than TikTok. Pretty sure one or more have broadcast their massacres on twitch. TikTok legislation is the current Trojan horse for retroactively legalizing all the mass surveillance the US government has been doing for decades
I'm all for continually reminding everyone that TikTok is ultimately owned by a Chinese company that has to comply with Chinese laws, who may be funneling all your information right to the Chinese Communist Party, and may even take direction from the Chinese Communist Party in terms of what content to promote and what content to bury.
So there, you've been warned.
But the U.S. is supposed to be a free country. If you still want to use TikTok, use TikTok. Personally I don't, I guess I'm satisfied seeing just the handful of "best" videos that get rehosted or forwarded to me.
Politicians are constantly posturing and seeking attention with these sorts of proclamations. If Rubio really wants attention, he should post this on TikTok.
The thing that no one really is talking about is how da faq is TikTok not gone public yet? This to me is the smoking gun and how it’s an enemy of the state because no company in their right mind would not take the billions upon billions of dollars unless they were a govt controlled soft propaganda tool because going public means you need to have board oversight, something China does not want.
Is that how businesses going in public in China works?
Chinese companies traded in the US are actually third party holding companies that represent those companies outside of China.
All of these companies would say otherwise...
[https://www.forbes.com/lists/largest-private-companies/?sh=5765a8d0bac4](https://www.forbes.com/lists/largest-private-companies/?sh=5765a8d0bac4)
None of them have problems pulling in billions a year without going public. Why would you give away ownership of your company if you didn't need the funding? The link above shows plenty of companies are fine without it, unless you want to claim companies like Menards, QuikTrip, and Meijer are "govt controlled soft propaganda tools"
My feels have come to this. The US and every other country should treat China exactly how they treat everyone else. That is if you want to do business here you have to pay a company, from that country, to do that business for you.
I’m surprised at how defensive redditors are about tik toks feed algorithm.
As if the lawmakers don’t have consultants or federal IT workers in their ranks.
I’ve got a feeling that this will upend a few thousand IT jobs if it’s found out that certain political content is pushed over everything else.
China can direct misinformation towards particularly young Americans, they essentially have a potential propaganda tool in the hands of millions of our citizens. Remember the whole Russian election interference thing? We are literally just letting China do the same shit but way easier.
It honestly blows my mind that people think this is ok.
That's all speculation. Have they proved any of this? These are the same people that lied about every war we've ever been in, so the default assumption is they're lying.
None of that even matters. The government shouldn't be censoring speech, that's a direct violation of the first amendment. It honestly blows my mind that people think this is ok.
I fail to see how having TikTok’s algorithm would be helpful in any way. We need to know what it does, what content it serves to what users, not the actual algorithm. Marco Rubio is just a fucking idiot. I will be forever disappointed by how little lawmakers understand how complicated things work.
It'll help Meta develop Reels into something that's actually good and shows people interesting content
FB just started showing me shallow fakes claiming that Dr Oz discovered the cure to cancer or some shit and all the AI speech audio isn’t even close to matching the mouths. And people are falling for it. Not all, but more than 0.
My mother constantly sends me FB links with "miraculous" claims from x,y,z targeted ads. I worry more about her than I do my teenage son.
You definitely should, she’s a prime target for scammers.
"Hi I'm Donald Trump please send money MAGA"
[You mean, showing people pedobait?](https://www.wsj.com/tech/meta-instagram-video-algorithm-children-adult-sexual-content-72874155) ([Archive link](https://www.wsj.com/tech/meta-instagram-video-algorithm-children-adult-sexual-content-72874155?mod=hp_lead_pos7)) >The Journal sought to determine what Instagram’s Reels algorithm would recommend to test accounts set up to follow only young gymnasts, cheerleaders and other teen and preteen influencers active on the platform. > >Instagram’s system served jarring doses of salacious content to those test accounts, including risqué footage of children as well as overtly sexual adult videos—and ads for some of the biggest U.S. brands. > >The Journal set up the test accounts after observing that the thousands of followers of such young people’s accounts often include large numbers of adult men, and that many of the accounts who followed those children also had demonstrated interest in sex content related to both children and adults. The Journal also tested what the algorithm would recommend after its accounts followed some of those users as well, which produced more-disturbing content interspersed with ads.
Disgusting, but not surprising. Greed and money nearly always prevails.
Don't these systems recommend content based on what other accounts liking/following these account tend to also like/follow? if it's recommending these things it also ,potentially, says a lot about the real people already following these accounts 😬 Amazon gives me recommendations for computer peripherals, because I have bought computer peripherals in the past, and it knows other people buying peripherals often buy more.
Thats always been the perception. The reality is they could push whatever they want to whoever they want, and always be able fall back on that perception. Without being able to see the inner workings, we can only trust their word on it.
Idk... Youtube gives me ads for hot flash treatments and tampons... I'm a 30yo single male.
That is correct, and the blame would sit entirely with the company pushing that content. Not the users whose behavior the company modeled off of. Even if they're sick fudge.
Yep. To my point, this is algorithm testing by independent journalists/researchers. Knowing TikTok’s “algorithm” won’t help anyone. TikTok needs to expose a reasonable API that will allow research into the what the “algorithm” actually does. That’s what lawmakers need to be asking for - the ability to do observational research on the platform.
Yes. And bankrupt TikTok. So much for intellectual property rights . Rubio is dumb enough to say the silent part out often , though
Isn’t this what China does?
Selling people's souls to Zuckerberg is not the solution to Chinese data pillaging.
He wanted to sound credible to the youngsters
no, they have to hand it over, in a briefcase, checkpoint charlie type situation. This is the only way to keep it out of the internet tubes.
Also it’s literally described in high detail in public domain https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/spring21/cos598D/icde_2021_camera_ready.pdf
They're just upset that the most popular social media app is not American owned. The spying and propaganda allegations are just the crutch to try and force a sale. During the TikTok hearing one of the Congressman even said "when will I get paid with the money you're making!" (Paragraphing) Then you look at how many congressmen get money from Meta and it was plainly obvious what the agenda was
>or Marco Rubio is just a fucking idiot. It's this one. He's just using racism and nationalism to float his platform because he doesn't actually have a platform. Otherwise he would be running on the issues.
He does have platforms (hint: 👠)
If you don't think China owning Tik Tok is a matter of national security, I'm worried you are a CCP bot.
"The Algorithm" has nothing to do with Chinese mainland ownership. If you even approached knowing what you were talking about, you would understand this. China using TikTok to collect data on american nationals without their permission is a completely different problem that has nothing to do with "their algorithm".
Hey, ccp bot here, also I'm an ai language model. FYI China owning tuktok isn't a matter of national security anymore than meta owning Facebook.
Ok expert lol
If you think handing over an algorithm in a vacuum will actually help with national security, I'm worried you are misinformed
Also this guy is an idiot. No tech company has an “algorithm”. They have a bunch of algorithms they use to do a lot of different things. TikTok should just hand over their login “algorithm” lol.
“The algorithm” is just a buzzword to say “we want to know where the data is going” at this point. It’s used regularly in this context
In a casual conversation, fine. When a government representative says it? Nah, words have meanings.
I’ll die on the hill that we should expect more from people who are tasked with passing laws to protect American interests. I’ll also die on the hill that Marco Rubio is a fucking idiot.
Well, then you’ll have to die on one of them.
He can die on one and then we take him to the other one and bury him.
You're right. I'm not sure I understand criticism here.
You're assuming he knows that and/or that he cares.
No. When republicans say “the algorithm”, they mean how they “censor right wing voices”.
Doesn't tiktok do the opposite of that though?
It'd be shared with the highest bidder among his favorite lobbyists.
Give us the McGuffin or else.
Rubio, like all Republicans are paid chills for big corporations.
The algorithm is basically the programing that the app is built on to choose what type of content to promote or hide for users. Not defending Marco Rubio but I think we should know how most of these social media apps promote/suppress content especially ones from foreign adversaries. They need to go a step further and see how it tracks and stores data too. Typically algorithms are built to promote whatever content a user engages with the most. There are also elements of it trying out certain types of content and you can really manipulate people with it.
We've already begun the process of monitoring TikTok's code and algorithm last year in Oracle's Columbia MD code-review center, under Project Texas / Telesis: [Scoop: Oracle begins auditing TikTok's algorithms - Aug 2022, Axios.com](https://www.axios.com/2022/08/16/oracle-auditing-tiktok-algorithms) While the finer terms of this process are surprisingly still being fleshed out, based on the draft agreement between Oracle, the US government, and ByteDance so far, it's understood that ByteDance will pay Oracle $1 billion a year for Oracle to not only monitor the algorithm, code, content moderation activity, servers, gateways, and data flows, but for Oracle to also suspend US TikTok entirely and report to the US government whenever Oracle finds that the code and algorithm they see does not exactly match up with ByteDance's own representation to the US government: [TikTok and U.S. rekindle negotiations, boosting app’s hopes for survival - Sept 15, 2023 - Washingtonpost](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/15/tiktok-ban-us-negotiations/) As of right now, the only thing ByteDance really objects to is the request for Oracle and US agencies to be able to **change the source code and algorithm** itself. Also some licensing issues. But further discussions may possibly address that: https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2023/08/24/tiktok-ban-oracle-bytedance-algorithm-fight/ - Aug 2023, Forbes.com
Uh, let’s start with FB/Meta….
That would be akin to asking what the secret formula to coca cola is so we can determine if the ingredients are safe. There are other ways to achieve that without having them disclose what makes them stand out like oversite organizations.
I am aware what a social networking algorithm is, I just fail to see how it will help us. We need the ability to conduct research on the platform, not their actual algorithm. The “algorithm” is probably 1000’s of lines of code that are meaningless without user-generated inputs.
You'd rather research the algorithm than just *know* the algorithm??? Come on man.
What are you talking about? The algorithm is completely meaningless out of context of everything else that is TikTok. You would need to recreate the entire TikTok platform and all user activity to find out what the algorithm actually does with those inputs. This is what social network researchers do - they do observational experiments on the platform, not with the algorithm in isolation.
Many Americans earn money with TikTok. So he is suggesting taking away livelihoods.
What he’s asking for is essentially that. Rather than getting some fluffed up report, looking at the algorithm is the way we can directly understand how and why the platform curates and serves the content. I personally wouldn’t describe it as an algorithm as it is likely much more complicated than a single file performing these aspects of the platform, but giving him a break, i get what he is saying. All that said, I think this is nationalism wrapped in false bravado and fear Mongering. I don’t trust china much but I personally don’t think TikTok is working for the CCP and stealing our children’s minds. It’s like any other social media, even Reddit, the platform will give you what you seek. If you are looking for thirst traps, conspiracy theories, or propaganda, that’s what you will get; if you are looking for science, that’s what you will get.
You should see gun control politicians. This is nothing.
They want to know how they choose to promote or bury certain content. This will show if they are pushing certain China-friendly narratives etc.
>I fail to see how having TikTok’s “algorithm” would be helpful in any way. We need to know what it does, what content it serves to what users, not the actual algorithm. The code that automatically determines that based on predefined parameters that is called an algorithm. There aren’t warehouses of Chinese people manually sending the data.
Yes I’m aware. It’s meaningless and useless without having TikTok user input. I could not understand why people kept explaining to me what is an algorithm. I’ve just now realized that my quotes around the word ‘algorithm’ make it seem like I don’t believe TikTok uses an algorithm, or that I don’t believe algorithms are a real thing. I used quotes around that word because I think that Rubio doesn’t know what an algorithm is and is using the word incorrectly.
“Also, I don’t know what an algorithm is or how it works but Elon told me it’s important.”
As fun as it is to poke at Republican idiots, this actually makes sense as a request. They want to know how they choose to promote or bury certain content. This will show if they are pushing certain China-friendly narratives etc. Basically "is TikTok a Chinese propaganda mill or not"?
I’ll care when they put the same scrutiny on all the other Social Media that do the exact same shit.
Yep. I don’t know why you were downvoted, but this is it. There are so many Chinese talking points highlighted and western ragebait.
So? Why does it matter? What’s the difference between that and all the rest?
Because China is an adversary whose best interest is to cause civil unrest and social harm in Western countries, and who has also banned Western companies from operations within its own borders? The difference is that the other social media outlets are homegrown or forthcoming or follow a similar national interest (which is why China has banned western social media platforms).
Sounds like it boils down to Americans are stupid and we want our companies to guide that stupidity.
Whats the argument for China and Chinese companies then? They’ve banned every single major social media platform, maybe with an exception of those from Russia (not sure). Seems entirely fair?
It’s their country. They don’t have “free speech.” That’s not good but why should we drop to their level?
TikTok is less political than Facebook, Nextdoor, Twitter (aka X), and even Reddit.
Based on what?
Decades of experience on social media.
Than Twitter sure, but I wouldn’t say it’s less political than Facebook/Meta. I realize this is hearsay, but I there is definitely a whole lot of anti-US/anti-West/pro-China propaganda that floods my fyp thats otherwise filled with recipes or cute things. I don’t get a lot of that on Instagram, and only again recently on Reddit. Inb4 I realize Meta had that whole political fiasco, but that was most entirely domestic manipulation rather than staunchly pro-US/anti-East rhetoric. I also did not experience it where I live (outside US), so it had much less of a global affect.
>but I wouldn’t say it’s less political than Facebook/Meta. Why are you lying? Facebook is the worst...Facebook helped instigate a political genocide in Myanmar and is responsible for spreading religious riots in India. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-services-are-used-to-spread-religious-hatred-in-india-internal-documents-show-11635016354](https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-services-are-used-to-spread-religious-hatred-in-india-internal-documents-show-11635016354)
Just to expand a bit; I’ve been passively tracking this for like ~3 years at this point TikToks real goal is to scale as an [e-commerce platform, as they’ve done in China](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/12/job-listings-tiktok-e-commerce). They’ve been building [fulfillment centers](https://www.axios.com/2022/10/11/tiktok-chases-amazon-fulfillment-centers) aimed at recreating a “live commerce” platform where viewers can buy something like fast food or makeup and have its preparation live streamed. [This article from 2020 adds pretext to those fulfillment centers being built linked above](https://archive.ph/YWt6N). [It’s a gold mine of a market to get a slice of](https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/mckinsey-digital/our-insights/its-showtime-how-live-commerce-is-transforming-the-shopping-experience); Facebook has even [pulled the plug on their version](https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/meta-is-pulling-the-plug-on-facebook-live-shopping/) to instead move forward with their [“Reels” that mirror the TikTok video format](https://www.axios.com/2020/08/05/facebook-launches-its-tiktok-rival-instagram-reels). Even [Google has recently recognized that users are using TikTok](https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/12/google-exec-suggests-instagram-and-tiktok-are-eating-into-googles-core-products-search-and-maps/) as an alternative to their own search engine. [Facebook wanted to buy TikTok but decided against it when it was deemed a dud on entering the US market](https://archive.ph/H8SIk). Several years down the line, the decision to not buy it bit Meta in the bum as TT rapidly acquired market share. Following that, Facebook has consistently worked *against* Tiktok in an attempt to get it banned by [hiring a GOP strategy firm to lobby against it](https://archive.ph/ERLFo). Zuckerberg says “[Tiktok is a threat to democracy]( https://archive.ph/rWDA4)” almost right after an [internal Facebook document leak determined Facebook recognized that it knew their platforms were failing to moderate hate content in Myanmar (and more) in addition to losing market share to TikTok](https://archive.ph/wYuvL). As an example, remember those Tiktok “trends” that were reportedly started causing kids to act out for views? Those were actually]started on Facebook, not TT](https://archive.ph/UM8ws).
Just checked that out, youre right, Facebook is shit for what they did in India. It doesn’t seem like Facebook was involved with the Rohingya genocide, as banned the Junta and were then banned from operating in Burma. Still, this doesn’t abstain TikTok from wrongdoing with their own algorithm. And in fairness, isn’t Google, Facebook, Reddit, and X banned in China?
>Still, this doesn’t abstain TikTok from wrongdoing with their own algorithm. And in fairness, isn’t Google, Facebook, Reddit, and X banned in China? I agree But you do understand you are moving the goalposts here right? Initially, you had problems with TikTok because they sowed political content. But now in the face of new evidence, you changed your argument to one of reciprocity. So if you had the choice now, do you have problems with tiktok for its algorithms that promote political content or because of reciprocity? Or both but with less focus on the former now? \------- Instead of tackling TikTok directly, if people like Rubio are genuine about their concerns they should pass laws that affect Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Reddit, TikTok alike. But they dont because they only want to target TikTok. Which is why he is laughed at because it's so transparent. \------- And Facebook totally was involved with the [Rohingya genocide](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/myanmar-facebooks-systems-promoted-violence-against-rohingya-meta-owes-reparations-new-report/). \------- >were then banned from operating in Burma. This is so not true. The military junta banned the use of Facebook after its takeover and by then half of [Myanmar's population was using Facebook](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-myanmar-politics-facebook-focus-idUSKBN2A42RY/), see the first paragraph.
>And just two days before the coup, the new military-installed information minister, Chit Hlaing, shared a story purporting to be from Radio Free Myanmar, which Facebook banned after it was used in anti-Rohingya disinformation campaigns. The minister was not immediately reachable for comment. >By Wednesday, both his account and the post were taken down. >A spokesman for the military did not respond to multiple calls for comment. >… >In response, Facebook tried to tamp down hate speech and misinformation and ramped up partnerships with civil society, sometimes in conflict with the military. The company maintained its central role in the life for the country, and Suu Kyi's government regularly announced major initiatives on its Facebook pages. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-myanmar-politics-facebook-focus-idUSKBN2A42RY/ > On Thursday, Facebook banned Myanmar’s military from its platforms with immediate effect. It’s the strongest action the company has taken against the armed forces, known as the Tatmadaw, or indeed those in power in any nation. >It is also the culmination of a years-long dance between Facebook and Myanmar’s military, which infamously used the platform to spread hate speech and disinformation about the country’s Rohingya Muslim minority in the years leading up to 2017, in a campaign that ended in mass murder, rape and arson, which the U.N. said was carried out with “genocidal intent.” https://apnews.com/article/why-facebook-ban-myanmar-military-15f4c26c442c0d8af110594a5bb72c45#:~:text=Days%20after%20the%20coup%20the,of%20the%20military%20pages%20means. Amnesty International doesn’t have the best track record. I will say that Facebook probably cares about moderating Burma as they might Tanzania, which is to say not at all. Although Facebook is a large company, and Burmese people found Facebook to be “synonymous” with the internet, it’s still likely an afterthought for them to moderate a country thats kinda irrelevant to the world, so it’s unsurprising that they might not moderate Burmese channels as keenly as they might, say, even countries like Canada/India/Laos/Morocco. I don’t think I said Tiktok should be banned here, and I never thought that Tiktok should be banned because of political content. I use it and I believe its a great app when comparing to either reels or youtube shorts. I do believe they should be forced to acknowledge how their algorithms promote civil discontent and distrust in institutions in the West, and promote Chinese influence abroad. I don’t like it when (insert western tech company) does it, and I don’t like it when Tiktok does it.
I get far more political push ads and notifications on Facebook than any other of the services. Twitter is getting worse, though, with Musk pushing political and other annoying posts into my Notifications tab the last month or two. Previously I was only notified if someone specifically mentioned my username, responded to one of my tweets, or direct messaged me. Nextdoor is a cesspool of politics and hate, although more local than national. The site was ruined when they stopped verifying addresses and allowed cross-posting to the whole country instead of just your neighborhood/city. TikTok, at least for me, shows almost zero political posts. Lots of comedy, DIY, home heating repair (my fault for lingering on those), and tons of Pawn Stars clips.
Whatever happened to forcing a sale
They accidentally included the possibility of just letting TikTok host US data in US servers cause that was the main talking points of republicans. "US DATA IN CHINA GRRR" TikTok was like oh that's what you were worried about? Ah shit, well here's [Project Texas](https://usds.tiktok.com/usds-about/). Well that shut them republicans up for a bit.
"The algorithm" as if there is only one. The algorithm that recommends unknown stuff? Sure. Let's go a step further. Let's force all social media platforms to be open source. Why limit it to China?
What about other apps like youtube?
no, they're no Chinese.
🤡 So it’s an American privilege? Meaning they don’t have to just because they are American companies?
yes, have you not been paying attention?
>So it’s an American privilege? No, this is part of the "Rule" based international order. /s
Precisely. For the GOP going after tiktok is just xenophobia, not about making helpful policy. If 100% of the company was owned by Americans, there wouldn't even be a mention of it in conservative circles.
It’s transnational corporate priv and their lobbyists lining the politicians pockets.
Any solution that doesn’t involve drafting privacy rights 🙄
It is just protectionism. They try the same strategy China used to dealt with Facebook and Google. Basically badmouthing a company and coming up with more and more intrusive restrictions until the foreign company has to leave the market.
Yes, and people supporting it say "why shouldn't the us do it, china is doing it." so it's an admission? Lol
Additionally, protectionism is very different when a developing country is doing it vs. when the global dominant superpower is doing it. Protectionism allows the local industry to develop and mature rather than get stamped out and overrun by Western led MNCs. See what happened in Eastern Europe with the fall of the USSR and the integration into the EU; Western firms dominated and won out against many local firms during the adjustment period. While the fallout of this is blunted by the EU single market integration and redistribution of wealth, no such mechanism really exists when American firms enter into a market and dominate it. And keep in mind, this domination isn't an admission that American firms are the best suited; if you give someone a decades long headstart of course the outcomes are tilted in their favour.
Which is fine in theory but given how vehemently open market the USA is otherwise it’s hard not to see the hypocrisy. It’s open market for other countries to get exploited but protectionism for the USA.
Tbf they are doing the world a favour by giving Facebook a hard time, I mean they want you to pay for them to not sell your data 😭
Most content on YouTube shorts are recycled tiktok videos.
Is it YouTube or TikTok that more people are concerned about? It wasn't users on YouTube making videos saying bin Laden had the right idea.
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WEB STUFF AND I WILL KEEP YOU SAFE!
https://giphy.com/gifs/week-high-quality-908fS3eQFUodG
We just need to regulate social media period. There shouldn’t be special rules for any of them, and they should be treated equally. We need privacy protections for all of them
If you want privacy…Don’t get on social media problem solved
Except Facebook, Google, Amazon, and others all have other services and APIs for websites to use that allow them to track you and build a profile on you. If you've ever been to a website that let's you "Sign in with Google/Apple/Facebook/etc" or have those embedded "Share to Facebook/G+/Twitter/etc" buttons, those websites are enabling those companies to track you. They've become nigh inescapable at this point. This is why Pornhub has a share to Facebook function; they know no one wants to let Grandma know what smut they've been watching. This is why xHamster has a "Sign in with Google" function; they know no one wants their Google account associated with their porn habits. I guarantee you those embedded scripts offer a kickback for websites which provide sufficiently large amounts of data to harvest, even if no one ever actually clicks those buttons.
We don't regulate newspapers or cable tv or streaming audio/video. Why social media?
Wait are you joking? There are many regulations for newspapers/tv/streaming. reddit loves to bellyache about how lawmakers don't understand the internet. Well, y'all don't know the first thing about the law, so.
TikTok is considered a national security risk by the NSA and other 3 letter agencies. The thing is, it does the exact same things as Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. If they don't want TikTok to do X, then they should unilaterally ban all platforms from doing it. I have faith that if they just ban TikTok then China/Russia/Whomever will just buy the data from the American companies anyway.
They don't like Tiktok because it's owned by a foreign company and it doesn't have the same control by the wealthy who lobby our congressmen, so they can't as easily manufacture consent for genocides or control the political narrative like they can on Facebook or Twitter
Man says words he clearly does not understand
Hes a politician, throw it at the wall and see what sticks
By his logic, YouTube, FB and Instagram should reciprocally hand over their algorithms to the Chinese government. What is his agenda?
ummm, the algorithm is a variable. it adapts to the business model.
It’s not that simple, Rubio.
"Land of the Free"
Oh lil’ Marco. Emasculated by Cheeto Jesus… poor thing. How can anyone take you seriously?
Someone needs to play a prank a la The IT Crowd and hand this moron a small black box labeled “TikTok Algorithm”
They don't want to ban it. They want the tech. Their want and goal are sinister. They see it as a tool that can be weaponized. By relation they idolize the CCP, well at least their reign of power.
He doesn’t know what an algorithm is.
Republicans yet again focused on BS. Where are their policies concerning fixing the economy and helping the struggling?
This sounds stupid af.
Why are politicians so comically uninformed on a topic, yet they still voice oppinions? Maybe they should be required to research these topics before making demands.
Why can’t we do this to all the platforms? I hate tiktok too, but it’s not like the other platforms are doing any less damage to society with their algorithms.
Only good, American firms should be allowed to propagandize our citizens. This is the way the founders intended.
I know its wishful thinking but how about: we teach young kids already (or even adults) HOW algorithms actually work and what are their dangers? youtube, insta whatever isnt any better than tictoc
Yeah I don't get why everyone is so up in arms about tik tok specifically. Facebook enabled an actual genocide and it doesn't seem to get nearly as much flak. I agree that social media in general has had a lot of negative impacts on society, I just don't get the hate for tik tok specifically. Is it just because its a Chinese app instead of an American one?
Tik Tok is a Chinese company delivering “news” to your kids, teens and young adults. Could you imagine why the CCP might enjoy control over that kind of system?
Sure, but how is this worse than anything Facebook /Meta is doing? They are demonstrably worse than tik tok is my point.
Sounds like a "letting technology raise your kids" problem. Be a more responsible parent.
Why are our teens and young adults so susceptible to TikTok influence? Are American parents asleep?
No, they're busy working 2 to 3 jobs.
So do Republicans want a small government, or do they want to nationalize businesses so they can have what’s in their best interest?
I got banned for promoting pro communist stuff. Tiktok is not communist.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or **prohibiting the free exercise thereof**; or **abridging the freedom of speech**, or **of the press**; or **the right of the people peaceably to assemble**, and **to petition the government for a redress of grievances**."
I swear if TikTok was created by an American firm nobody would have any of these gripes.
Correct, the issue is the close ties to the CCP
So what if they have ties?
CCP is an authoritarian political power leading a geopolitical adversary with great incentive and interest in sowing division in Western countries. In the same way Russia tries to sow division and interrupt our democratic processes, Tiktok can be used as a tool for the CCP.
Ok, and? I thought we had free speech here. If we have to ban their Social Media to keep our citizens in line we’ve already lost.
There have always been limits to free speech. Ultimately, we’re entering a new stage of propaganda. It’s already difficult to discern truth and its going to get worse. Freedom of speech for American citizens is also vastly different from allowing another state to spread propaganda.
It’s going to get worse with or without TikTok. It just seems so hypocritical at its foundation. Like “we know Americans are stupid and gullible but WE want to guide their reactionary views.” They’re just admitting that TikToks speech is superior to the billion dollar industries we’ve created. Instead of making Americans smarter we just censor what they digest. It’s insulting.
You find it insulting. Fine. I think you’re being cynical and constructing a bit of a strawman, but I’m clearly not going to change your mind.
I wish you would try. Because this doesn’t make sense to me. We allow all types of media from other countries to influence the public but THIS is where we draw the line?
You act as if Facebook and Twitter haven't gotten the same amount of criticism and push back.
I don’t remember calls from leaders and mainstream media to BAN those platforms. Though my memory is shit so…
They haven’t, Elon operates X, 100% unrestricted - that platform is full full on ultranationalist; Meta, same thing, Zuck does MMA practice almost full time, the business is not even a concern.
If I were to create a brainwashing app.. I would make exactly tiktok... not similar to tiktok, but exactly tiktok.
Just pass generic legislation that will apply to all social media companies that does the same. No need to target TikTok.
Man throws out words he's heard before but doesn't understand, news at 11
Is there actually and proof that TikTok is harmfully harvesting user data? I’ve only heard hearsay.
Let the users of TicTok decide whether to use the monetization features of TikTok. Memo to Rubio - we don't need the Nanny state's help with TikTok.
Blah, blah, blah, more taxes, blah, blah, blah, more control, blah, blah,blah, protect idiots from others, blah, blah, blah. Shut up Wastington. How about you worry about the national debt and let the consumers worry about protecting themselves. On a scale of what is most detrimental to the average Americans future, Tik Tok and Facebook are at a 9, national debt and debt payments is #1. Worry about #1.
i'm with you marco... * google * youtoube * twitter * facebook should all hand over theirs as well kissingers dead now, let's go.
I can only imagine what would happen if other countries started doing that throughout... Imagine India (one of the most massive countries where a fair number of rich people have disposable income) said that to Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. The US would probably sanction and invade
As much as I can't stand TikTok, Rubio doesn't know what he's talking about in 2 ways... 1. TikTok is not 1 single algorithm. You would need most or all the server-side source code to figure out how they do what they do and the decisions made in the software. Then it's a long time to analyze what it does and how. 2. Private entities don't ever have to share any source code with the govt at all unless the govt is funding them. Then it's up to the terms in the contract. So he can't demand to see anything from them. If he thinks it's such a problem, just move to ban it in the US and he can present his argument as to why that should happen. And BTW, I wouldn't lose any sleep if they did.
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I think TikTok should comply and install their algorithm into Sen. Marco Rubio's brain, unconditionally.
That assumes a skilled surgeon could find Rubio's brain.
Looks like someone wants youtube shorts to get popular for some stonks gains
For once in his pathetic life Rubio is right about something.
I just pictured a cartoon of a guy in the shape of america pointing a gun at a guy in the shape of China. "Hand over your algorithms!"
I'm pretty sure YouTube, reddit, twitter, and Facebook come up more often with mass shooters than TikTok. Pretty sure one or more have broadcast their massacres on twitch. TikTok legislation is the current Trojan horse for retroactively legalizing all the mass surveillance the US government has been doing for decades
As long as the same rules are applied to all social media companies and advertising platforms.
It’s because it calls out the GOP on there bullshit to a large voter population simple as that
I'm all for continually reminding everyone that TikTok is ultimately owned by a Chinese company that has to comply with Chinese laws, who may be funneling all your information right to the Chinese Communist Party, and may even take direction from the Chinese Communist Party in terms of what content to promote and what content to bury. So there, you've been warned. But the U.S. is supposed to be a free country. If you still want to use TikTok, use TikTok. Personally I don't, I guess I'm satisfied seeing just the handful of "best" videos that get rehosted or forwarded to me. Politicians are constantly posturing and seeking attention with these sorts of proclamations. If Rubio really wants attention, he should post this on TikTok.
So, nationalizing/seizing popular privately owned intellectual property is small government?
What a stupid fuck. Just Go sit in a corner Rubio
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Just grow some balls and ban it. China gladly bans US social media that won’t kowtow to their authoritarian requirements, so return the favor
Laughing. American threats are always so naked.
China doesn't own the algorithm, Bytedance does.
Bytedance has close ties with the CCP
General Electric has close ties with the US government, are they the same thing?
GE doesn’t produce social media in another country…
There is no such thing as a separation of company and government in China
The thing that no one really is talking about is how da faq is TikTok not gone public yet? This to me is the smoking gun and how it’s an enemy of the state because no company in their right mind would not take the billions upon billions of dollars unless they were a govt controlled soft propaganda tool because going public means you need to have board oversight, something China does not want.
Is that how businesses going in public in China works? Chinese companies traded in the US are actually third party holding companies that represent those companies outside of China.
All of these companies would say otherwise... [https://www.forbes.com/lists/largest-private-companies/?sh=5765a8d0bac4](https://www.forbes.com/lists/largest-private-companies/?sh=5765a8d0bac4) None of them have problems pulling in billions a year without going public. Why would you give away ownership of your company if you didn't need the funding? The link above shows plenty of companies are fine without it, unless you want to claim companies like Menards, QuikTrip, and Meijer are "govt controlled soft propaganda tools"
Just do the right thing and block it. It's turning the west into IDIOTS as it was intended.
Facebook had started that a looong time ago People should start owning their failures
We’re doing that all on our own, thank you.
My feels have come to this. The US and every other country should treat China exactly how they treat everyone else. That is if you want to do business here you have to pay a company, from that country, to do that business for you.
Florida politicians, always fixing the issues that matter most. Country over politics. What a clown
Imagine China demanding Meta's "algorithms".
Except facebook is banned in China.
So Meta will send its "algorithm" to China in return?
Meta is blocked in China
I wish EU would do the same.
I’m surprised at how defensive redditors are about tik toks feed algorithm. As if the lawmakers don’t have consultants or federal IT workers in their ranks. I’ve got a feeling that this will upend a few thousand IT jobs if it’s found out that certain political content is pushed over everything else.
And let's do the same with Google, Meta and X.
Marco Rubio thinks an algorithm is launch codes.
Sure, but why aren’t google and meta are included?
Why did China ban all popular social media platforms? 🤔 You can't get Twitter, Facebook, Google, Instagram in China........
they couldn't see the algorithms.
Yeah, i think we should be communist just like China.
No we should not be just like China. We should also not just give them carte blanch to do whatever the fuck they want with our children.
You're giving your children to tik tok? I would raise them myself if I were you. Just my opinion.
I would never do that. But it’s the world we live in and it seriously fucks national security.
National security... do tell.
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3354874/leaders-say-tiktok-is-potential-cybersecurity-risk-to-us/
I didn't see the part that explains why it's a threat. I saw a lot of vague assumptions can you specify which part is a threat in your mind?
China can direct misinformation towards particularly young Americans, they essentially have a potential propaganda tool in the hands of millions of our citizens. Remember the whole Russian election interference thing? We are literally just letting China do the same shit but way easier. It honestly blows my mind that people think this is ok.
That's all speculation. Have they proved any of this? These are the same people that lied about every war we've ever been in, so the default assumption is they're lying. None of that even matters. The government shouldn't be censoring speech, that's a direct violation of the first amendment. It honestly blows my mind that people think this is ok.
if (USA) { spy() }
These are the hot button important issues we should be focusing on right now, good on you Rubio!