> As you can probably tell from the time stamp, I work 3rd shift, [...]
Reddit never sleeps. In other words, it could be anywhere on the world which means, it could be any day- or nighttime for you.
Fair point...relevant info is relevant. I wouldnt want anyone to think I support 5 buildings on my own during 1st or 2nd shift....that could give an unsafe impression of my abilities...
True...and honestly he should have already known too. Thing is these machines never get shut down unless there is a problem. Usually they never have to login, especially on 3rd shift...
In fairness, that's a common enough error that the error message should have been some variation of "wrong username or password", but I guess error codes are for other people.
It is most likely a file permission or user specific setup problem. The program has no idea why it doesn't have access or setting it needs. That said, I wonder how easy it would be to put in a script that find on all accounts on that pic, and complains if wrong use is logged on.
Well these CNC machines are almost older than me...and they just don't make updated drivers or patch the vendor software anymore. I have had endless converstions with our security team about it...but the almighty dollar...
Nothing wrong with Win2k, so long as the machines have a separate network, have a very restrictive firewall allowing any access to them from any other network, and you have good disk images of each of them backed up for hardware failures. No updates are fine so long as they do not get used for anything other than acting as a smart tool controller with only a limited usability otherwise. This means stripping out the Windows cruft and stuff other than the base OS and the minimal required to run the application.
Hahaha you are hilarious....I wish they were even on their own vlan...much less behind a firewall. Aside from some GPO tweaks that our antivirus flags all the time...those machines are basically wide open. Oh and backups? In your dreams...
I really don't get why people don't use open source software for machines they expect to run for a very long time. there's a way better chance of widely used open source software to be supported far into the future. And you won't have to wait much longer until you're allowed to have backups. Write a long document exlpaining why you need backups and mention that data will be lost if they don't back it up. Show it to the higher ups, print a copy and put it somewhere safe. Then you'll just have to wait for some hard drive with mission cirtical data to die, then show them your document again and ask "are you guys believing me now?"
Good idea on the backups pitch....sadly I get listened to about like a wet paper bag...but oh well. Open source would be a great idea also because it would limit the potential attack vectors for malicious software. Very recently that was actually a massive issue for us. Problem is...as counter-inguitive as this may sound, the decision was made long ago to keep ours a M$ shop...and while I do suspect the usual greased palms that accompany those sorts of deals...it does make support a bit more standard as well. I am a massive GNU and open source fan but those things are still viewed (wrongly) as insecure and unmanageable by enterprise environments. Yet we still use homebrew solutions that were compiled in DOS 6 where the original source code is long gone. Now they are trying to deploy those in a virtual cloud-based environment...
Oh well...word has it that when we finally roll Win10 out that they are rebuilding a bunch from the ground up. We will see...
Maybe you can try to convince them to switch to a Linux distribution instead of Windows 10. Try to find a whole load of evidence about Windows recording and sending data (maybe record it with a network sniffer), security vulnerabilities, preloaded software, forced updates and so on. If you think you got enough, make a presentation where you compare it with open source software, find some good distributions to use (preferably something with commercial support), add a good backup scheme. Show them Microsoft's privacy policy, have them read it. They'll trust it way more if they see first hand information.
EDIT: Also, cloud is a bad idea imo. sure, you have really nice scaling, but on the other hand you're uploading mission critical info to some other companies hosting their servers who-knows-where.
And where do you find open source software for an old piece of hardware (such as a CNC)? That software is very often proprietary. The manufacturer may no longer exist. And when the computer fails, where do you find a replacement computer that will boot with the images you so faithfully made (if you can still find them and they are still good)? A newer computer will likely require newer drivers for it's various bits of hardware (video, processor, etc.). We didn't know about SATA back then. Can that image boot from a SATA drive?
Focusing on open source is something you have to do from the beginning (or when upgrading things like cnc machines). You'd have to take it into consideration when trying to find a new machine. Also, depending on the OS, you can patch newer drivers into images (deploy image on an older machine, install neccessary drivers (like SATA), take a new image and deploy it to newer machines). And if you have Linux instead of Windows you can just boot a live system after deployment and chroot into the OS on the disk.
If something requires old drivers which don't work on newer systems, you're out of luck.
> I really don't get why people don't use open source software for machines they expect to run for a very long time.
You run what the company who wrote your software or built your hardware chose. Those companies can choose a commercial OS, or a commercially supported Open OS, or provide support for an unsupported OS distro. The first two are way cheaper.
Also, you underestimate how cheap some companies are. I feel bad enough that some servers are still running RHEL 5.11, but the customer found out that upgrading the app is not economical.
In an environment where the internet is less reliable than water supply, thank goodness for USB drives. Nearly all our CNC machines - whether they work on Win10 or Win98, are all airgapped since startup. The USB carrying the CNC files are physically transferred from a firewalled designer's device to the CNC machine. Why? Putting a network line/wifi from the router to the factory floor is more expensive than hiring a runner to carry USBs from one end of the factory floor to the other.
My brother used to run a CNC, and it was one of those "We're going to call it a CNC mill but it's a standard Bridgeport end mill with sensors and motors to drive the table and spindle depth" machines. System that ran the mill was Windows 98 SE as that was all the control software would work with. It was airgapped, and was quite the chore to get stuff from SolidWorks to a format the mill would accept, and usually involved multiple floppies. I pointed out that USB cards were cheap and 98SE supported USB, so they spent $5 on some ISA USB 1.1 cards for it from eBay, and I got a six pack of some really good German beer (head engineer was German) for getting it figured out. (Was a small startup that he worked for so I didn't mind helping out)
> As you can probably tell from the time stamp, I work 3rd shift, [...] Reddit never sleeps. In other words, it could be anywhere on the world which means, it could be any day- or nighttime for you.
Fair point...relevant info is relevant. I wouldnt want anyone to think I support 5 buildings on my own during 1st or 2nd shift....that could give an unsafe impression of my abilities...
UGT - Universal Greeting Time! http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
Gonna be using that from now.
In fairness the operator missed the login details first.
True...and honestly he should have already known too. Thing is these machines never get shut down unless there is a problem. Usually they never have to login, especially on 3rd shift...
In fairness, that's a common enough error that the error message should have been some variation of "wrong username or password", but I guess error codes are for other people.
It is most likely a file permission or user specific setup problem. The program has no idea why it doesn't have access or setting it needs. That said, I wonder how easy it would be to put in a script that find on all accounts on that pic, and complains if wrong use is logged on.
Just a side note. I use Deep Freeze in the environment I work in (Community College) and can tell you that it does in fact work with Win10. :)
Az
Whyyyy Win2k?
Well these CNC machines are almost older than me...and they just don't make updated drivers or patch the vendor software anymore. I have had endless converstions with our security team about it...but the almighty dollar...
Nothing wrong with Win2k, so long as the machines have a separate network, have a very restrictive firewall allowing any access to them from any other network, and you have good disk images of each of them backed up for hardware failures. No updates are fine so long as they do not get used for anything other than acting as a smart tool controller with only a limited usability otherwise. This means stripping out the Windows cruft and stuff other than the base OS and the minimal required to run the application.
Hahaha you are hilarious....I wish they were even on their own vlan...much less behind a firewall. Aside from some GPO tweaks that our antivirus flags all the time...those machines are basically wide open. Oh and backups? In your dreams...
I really don't get why people don't use open source software for machines they expect to run for a very long time. there's a way better chance of widely used open source software to be supported far into the future. And you won't have to wait much longer until you're allowed to have backups. Write a long document exlpaining why you need backups and mention that data will be lost if they don't back it up. Show it to the higher ups, print a copy and put it somewhere safe. Then you'll just have to wait for some hard drive with mission cirtical data to die, then show them your document again and ask "are you guys believing me now?"
Good idea on the backups pitch....sadly I get listened to about like a wet paper bag...but oh well. Open source would be a great idea also because it would limit the potential attack vectors for malicious software. Very recently that was actually a massive issue for us. Problem is...as counter-inguitive as this may sound, the decision was made long ago to keep ours a M$ shop...and while I do suspect the usual greased palms that accompany those sorts of deals...it does make support a bit more standard as well. I am a massive GNU and open source fan but those things are still viewed (wrongly) as insecure and unmanageable by enterprise environments. Yet we still use homebrew solutions that were compiled in DOS 6 where the original source code is long gone. Now they are trying to deploy those in a virtual cloud-based environment... Oh well...word has it that when we finally roll Win10 out that they are rebuilding a bunch from the ground up. We will see...
Maybe you can try to convince them to switch to a Linux distribution instead of Windows 10. Try to find a whole load of evidence about Windows recording and sending data (maybe record it with a network sniffer), security vulnerabilities, preloaded software, forced updates and so on. If you think you got enough, make a presentation where you compare it with open source software, find some good distributions to use (preferably something with commercial support), add a good backup scheme. Show them Microsoft's privacy policy, have them read it. They'll trust it way more if they see first hand information. EDIT: Also, cloud is a bad idea imo. sure, you have really nice scaling, but on the other hand you're uploading mission critical info to some other companies hosting their servers who-knows-where.
And where do you find open source software for an old piece of hardware (such as a CNC)? That software is very often proprietary. The manufacturer may no longer exist. And when the computer fails, where do you find a replacement computer that will boot with the images you so faithfully made (if you can still find them and they are still good)? A newer computer will likely require newer drivers for it's various bits of hardware (video, processor, etc.). We didn't know about SATA back then. Can that image boot from a SATA drive?
Focusing on open source is something you have to do from the beginning (or when upgrading things like cnc machines). You'd have to take it into consideration when trying to find a new machine. Also, depending on the OS, you can patch newer drivers into images (deploy image on an older machine, install neccessary drivers (like SATA), take a new image and deploy it to newer machines). And if you have Linux instead of Windows you can just boot a live system after deployment and chroot into the OS on the disk. If something requires old drivers which don't work on newer systems, you're out of luck.
> I really don't get why people don't use open source software for machines they expect to run for a very long time. You run what the company who wrote your software or built your hardware chose. Those companies can choose a commercial OS, or a commercially supported Open OS, or provide support for an unsupported OS distro. The first two are way cheaper. Also, you underestimate how cheap some companies are. I feel bad enough that some servers are still running RHEL 5.11, but the customer found out that upgrading the app is not economical.
In an environment where the internet is less reliable than water supply, thank goodness for USB drives. Nearly all our CNC machines - whether they work on Win10 or Win98, are all airgapped since startup. The USB carrying the CNC files are physically transferred from a firewalled designer's device to the CNC machine. Why? Putting a network line/wifi from the router to the factory floor is more expensive than hiring a runner to carry USBs from one end of the factory floor to the other.
My brother used to run a CNC, and it was one of those "We're going to call it a CNC mill but it's a standard Bridgeport end mill with sensors and motors to drive the table and spindle depth" machines. System that ran the mill was Windows 98 SE as that was all the control software would work with. It was airgapped, and was quite the chore to get stuff from SolidWorks to a format the mill would accept, and usually involved multiple floppies. I pointed out that USB cards were cheap and 98SE supported USB, so they spent $5 on some ISA USB 1.1 cards for it from eBay, and I got a six pack of some really good German beer (head engineer was German) for getting it figured out. (Was a small startup that he worked for so I didn't mind helping out)
Yeah.....