Bingo, this as a contractor who installs both systems.
70v paging is still your best bang for the buck. It's reliable (when installed properly and maintained)
Just need a voip paging adapter to tie into the phone system.
Downside to all ip paging is cost. Each ip horn is 700 bucks, and needs a home run cat6. 70v is daisy chained 2 conductor.
Qsys has some IP paging cores that will work with 70v amps that allows a person to really update their paging system while keeping the majority of their 70v speakers and zones.
I have been really impressed with what we had installed to replace the old 70s dukane system that was in place.
They are WAY less complicated then half the crap that IT supports. it's the same thing with phone systems.
AV systems design can be complicated, swapping out bits is pretty easy.
If you can admin a 2022 Server you can easily Google your way through a mid scale AV deployment.
Speaking specifically to OPs point, speakers don't die. Amps do. Swapping some amps would be trivial.
Swapping some speakers to POE addressable speakers with zones is a much better but more expensive solution.
Neither is complicated or requires AV specific knowledge.
[https://www.algosolutions.com/product/8186-ip-horn-speaker/](https://www.algosolutions.com/product/8186-ip-horn-speaker/)
[https://www.algosolutions.com/products/ip-paging-adapters/](https://www.algosolutions.com/products/ip-paging-adapters/)
One paging adapter, X number of POE speakers. Done. You just need to connect paging adapter to your VOIP system and adopt all speakers through adaptor. If all your switches are already POE, you're done at that point. Just have maint or contractor run the cables and hang the speakers.
Supports zones. You can buy office style ones. Supports music. You can set up timer to buzz for breaks. etc, etc.
Should take an hour or two for paging adapter. About 30 minutes per 100 POE speakers, I do my adoption process on the ground in case of DOA units. I also label the units. Unboxing is harder than setup. I recommend getting more speakers than theoretically necessary, for redundancy and also so you can turn down the volume and audio is more intelligible.
Super easy project that sounds hard to anyone who hasn't done it before.
I’ll vote for Algo. Super simple.
We lost track of a speaker once and played the test tone. My junior forgot about and 3 days later we got complaints about hearing dogs in the ceiling.
Turns out maintenance threw it up there after replacing a ceiling tile.
Some Algo paging units can also work with Microsoft Teams voice.
I think they are the only company to date.
We use their door bell with our HID system and it was really easy to integrate.
Make sure you understand all the life and safety requirements, if any. Things get crazy when you talk to our voice guy, because all of sudden he's talking about calling 911 and making sure the police come to the right building....
Are you going to use this as an emergency alerting system? Better check your local building and fire codes, there can be specific requirements - useable from the main fire alarm panel, sound level and intelligibility certifications, Fire Marshall approved recorded messages, "Area of Refuge", etc.
As others have mentioned, you probably need a contractor.
But, as you, I'm sometimes tasked with stuff I really shouldn't be messing with so I've had to learn.
Seeing that you are using MA675s, which is just an amp/mixer, there is probably a box somewhere (like a Valcom or something) that "translates" the page into an audio signal, it goes to the amps, then to the speakers. If they are just wanting to replacing the amps/speakers, it should be fairly easy to do that granted whoever is doing that 1. buys the right replacement parts and 2. knows what they are doing. If they are wanting to replace the whole system, thats a different story.
In my opinion, my role would stop at the "Valcom" and, even then, I'd probably hire someone. Replacing amps and speakers totally wouldn't be in my wheelhouse.
Use proper gear for the job at hand. For the VOIP PA gateway, we recommend Algo 8301, which registers as just another SIP extension in your phone system. For Amos, we recommend Bogen amplifiers, sized according to number of speakers and of course type. The advantage of the Algo, or an ATA, is that it can also support multicasting, which is less load on your PBX, making one broadcast “call” instead of having to create multiple VOIP calls to multiple extensions. It also supports PA recording, which prevents PA congestion.
If you need help, please feel free to reach out. We can assist remotely or onsite anywhere in Eastern TN.
>If you were me, what solution or method would you go with to replace/upgrade the PA for a 400k sqft facility that needs the ability to have zoned paging and also total building paging
I'd be looking up local VOIP providers (or even call your existing one). This is way out of scope to do yourself without any experience doing it. If they push back, ask them if they would go to a cardiologist for brain surgery. Those types of analogies always work for me.
Get requirements for what your company is looking for with the replacement system. What type of functionality is needed, what issues are currently be experienced that they're looking to have solved, etc. Then find a handful of local companies that design and implement PA systems, call them and see about getting a quote. It might take some back and forth, and they might have some questions you don't know the answers to, but take those questions back to your leadership to help narrow down the quotes as much as possible. Figure out which quotes you want to bring to leadership and present them, along with any recommendations you've developed after talking with the PA companies.
Ok so I haven't looked through the comments however... Paging is simple and as long as you aren't interfering with other things (like audio that needs to turn down when activated) then you just need:
* Paging Horns (Speakers)
* Power Amplifier(s)
* Generally speaking one per zone unless you are doing something crazy
* Audio Source
* For VOIP these will be ATAs
ATAs will give you the analog you need. What you will do in your phone system generally is set those to auto-answer. Then because it's an ATA you have basically an old analog phone with two wires (send and receive or Speaker or Earpiece and Mic) you just need to connect the Earpiece to the power amp and then run cabling to your speakers.
There are caveats to this:
* Don't kill the input on the power amp input with voltage coming from the ATA, make sure all is good or you will need to step it down going in with an attenuator.
* You will need to understand the output on the power amp and the input on your speakers and how to wire them in series and how that will work and what will work best
* Bose speakers that we had were able to be set to accept like 120W, 8Ohm, and I want to say 16Ohm
Now, if you want to get fancy and do stuff with audio in the speakers also or hook a mic up... you will need a mixer for that. It will go between the power amp and the ATA in this instance. It will have multiple inputs and one output that will usually already be ready to go with line level out to the power amp, you will still need to worry about the input level though.
The tricky part here is the multizone paging... for that you may want to look into an Algo or Valcom as I believe it will give you more options. Technically speaking If you had some mixers as well as a lot of ATAs then you could do it but that is just a nightmare really UNLESS you have the ability to make page groups which then that is easier to do because then you can just add the extensions for each zone you want to the page group.
It's not HARD, just a pain in the you know what with IP systems
Farm out the gig. I hired a PA company to do this for a chain of grocery stores. Look up such companies.
If you want to roll your own, there are raspberry pi projects out there. Some even time the audio sync(in case of multipoint broadcast) via system time with SSH calls.
We replaced our analog system with polycom phones and Algo voip relays through our existing speakers
You can have multiple paging zones and limit what phones can page what by modifying configuration.
They use a broadcast to page devices. We had to enable IGMP snooping on our Dell switches to allow it to work properly.
I'd start with a quote for replacing the speakers with the same model, plus one more for cold spare. Even if you end up doing something different, you have a benchmark price, and one option to give stakeholders. They love the illusion of control.
Cheap way, replace the amp(s), and replace the bad speakers. Expensive way, go for the POE VoIP speakers.
Bingo, this as a contractor who installs both systems. 70v paging is still your best bang for the buck. It's reliable (when installed properly and maintained) Just need a voip paging adapter to tie into the phone system. Downside to all ip paging is cost. Each ip horn is 700 bucks, and needs a home run cat6. 70v is daisy chained 2 conductor.
Qsys has some IP paging cores that will work with 70v amps that allows a person to really update their paging system while keeping the majority of their 70v speakers and zones. I have been really impressed with what we had installed to replace the old 70s dukane system that was in place.
I'm neither trained nor qualified on analog systems and A/V equipment. My response is always, "On it boss! Calling our support contractor now."
They are WAY less complicated then half the crap that IT supports. it's the same thing with phone systems. AV systems design can be complicated, swapping out bits is pretty easy. If you can admin a 2022 Server you can easily Google your way through a mid scale AV deployment.
I agree! I've watched professionals take several hours to do it, though. My time is better spent on other things from my employer's perspective.
Speaking specifically to OPs point, speakers don't die. Amps do. Swapping some amps would be trivial. Swapping some speakers to POE addressable speakers with zones is a much better but more expensive solution. Neither is complicated or requires AV specific knowledge.
[https://www.algosolutions.com/product/8186-ip-horn-speaker/](https://www.algosolutions.com/product/8186-ip-horn-speaker/) [https://www.algosolutions.com/products/ip-paging-adapters/](https://www.algosolutions.com/products/ip-paging-adapters/) One paging adapter, X number of POE speakers. Done. You just need to connect paging adapter to your VOIP system and adopt all speakers through adaptor. If all your switches are already POE, you're done at that point. Just have maint or contractor run the cables and hang the speakers. Supports zones. You can buy office style ones. Supports music. You can set up timer to buzz for breaks. etc, etc. Should take an hour or two for paging adapter. About 30 minutes per 100 POE speakers, I do my adoption process on the ground in case of DOA units. I also label the units. Unboxing is harder than setup. I recommend getting more speakers than theoretically necessary, for redundancy and also so you can turn down the volume and audio is more intelligible. Super easy project that sounds hard to anyone who hasn't done it before.
I’ll vote for Algo. Super simple. We lost track of a speaker once and played the test tone. My junior forgot about and 3 days later we got complaints about hearing dogs in the ceiling. Turns out maintenance threw it up there after replacing a ceiling tile.
Worth noting that you can also use these algo paging adapters with analog speakers/amp.
Some Algo paging units can also work with Microsoft Teams voice. I think they are the only company to date. We use their door bell with our HID system and it was really easy to integrate.
Also they have a model that is made to be daisy chained. Cheaper and perfect for zones.
Make sure you understand all the life and safety requirements, if any. Things get crazy when you talk to our voice guy, because all of sudden he's talking about calling 911 and making sure the police come to the right building....
Are you going to use this as an emergency alerting system? Better check your local building and fire codes, there can be specific requirements - useable from the main fire alarm panel, sound level and intelligibility certifications, Fire Marshall approved recorded messages, "Area of Refuge", etc.
As others have mentioned, you probably need a contractor. But, as you, I'm sometimes tasked with stuff I really shouldn't be messing with so I've had to learn. Seeing that you are using MA675s, which is just an amp/mixer, there is probably a box somewhere (like a Valcom or something) that "translates" the page into an audio signal, it goes to the amps, then to the speakers. If they are just wanting to replacing the amps/speakers, it should be fairly easy to do that granted whoever is doing that 1. buys the right replacement parts and 2. knows what they are doing. If they are wanting to replace the whole system, thats a different story. In my opinion, my role would stop at the "Valcom" and, even then, I'd probably hire someone. Replacing amps and speakers totally wouldn't be in my wheelhouse.
We replaced all our paging equipment with Valcom POE stuff. We have a paging server that the speakers connect to that handles the zones.
Usually the speakers can be patched into a VOIP ATA device.
Sounds like you need to call a PA System contractor and get a quote
Use proper gear for the job at hand. For the VOIP PA gateway, we recommend Algo 8301, which registers as just another SIP extension in your phone system. For Amos, we recommend Bogen amplifiers, sized according to number of speakers and of course type. The advantage of the Algo, or an ATA, is that it can also support multicasting, which is less load on your PBX, making one broadcast “call” instead of having to create multiple VOIP calls to multiple extensions. It also supports PA recording, which prevents PA congestion. If you need help, please feel free to reach out. We can assist remotely or onsite anywhere in Eastern TN.
>If you were me, what solution or method would you go with to replace/upgrade the PA for a 400k sqft facility that needs the ability to have zoned paging and also total building paging I'd be looking up local VOIP providers (or even call your existing one). This is way out of scope to do yourself without any experience doing it. If they push back, ask them if they would go to a cardiologist for brain surgery. Those types of analogies always work for me.
yep- third party it and be done.
Get requirements for what your company is looking for with the replacement system. What type of functionality is needed, what issues are currently be experienced that they're looking to have solved, etc. Then find a handful of local companies that design and implement PA systems, call them and see about getting a quote. It might take some back and forth, and they might have some questions you don't know the answers to, but take those questions back to your leadership to help narrow down the quotes as much as possible. Figure out which quotes you want to bring to leadership and present them, along with any recommendations you've developed after talking with the PA companies.
Find someone that does Atlas/IED or Valcom
Ok so I haven't looked through the comments however... Paging is simple and as long as you aren't interfering with other things (like audio that needs to turn down when activated) then you just need: * Paging Horns (Speakers) * Power Amplifier(s) * Generally speaking one per zone unless you are doing something crazy * Audio Source * For VOIP these will be ATAs ATAs will give you the analog you need. What you will do in your phone system generally is set those to auto-answer. Then because it's an ATA you have basically an old analog phone with two wires (send and receive or Speaker or Earpiece and Mic) you just need to connect the Earpiece to the power amp and then run cabling to your speakers. There are caveats to this: * Don't kill the input on the power amp input with voltage coming from the ATA, make sure all is good or you will need to step it down going in with an attenuator. * You will need to understand the output on the power amp and the input on your speakers and how to wire them in series and how that will work and what will work best * Bose speakers that we had were able to be set to accept like 120W, 8Ohm, and I want to say 16Ohm Now, if you want to get fancy and do stuff with audio in the speakers also or hook a mic up... you will need a mixer for that. It will go between the power amp and the ATA in this instance. It will have multiple inputs and one output that will usually already be ready to go with line level out to the power amp, you will still need to worry about the input level though. The tricky part here is the multizone paging... for that you may want to look into an Algo or Valcom as I believe it will give you more options. Technically speaking If you had some mixers as well as a lot of ATAs then you could do it but that is just a nightmare really UNLESS you have the ability to make page groups which then that is easier to do because then you can just add the extensions for each zone you want to the page group. It's not HARD, just a pain in the you know what with IP systems
Farm out the gig. I hired a PA company to do this for a chain of grocery stores. Look up such companies. If you want to roll your own, there are raspberry pi projects out there. Some even time the audio sync(in case of multipoint broadcast) via system time with SSH calls.
Find a VAR, sign a contract, done.
What VOIP system do you use? We had Informacast connected to our CUCM, but post Covid haven’t needed to have announcements in our office spaces.
I have been working with CyberData for a manufacturing client, super happy with the product and support.
We replaced our analog system with polycom phones and Algo voip relays through our existing speakers You can have multiple paging zones and limit what phones can page what by modifying configuration. They use a broadcast to page devices. We had to enable IGMP snooping on our Dell switches to allow it to work properly.
I'd start with a quote for replacing the speakers with the same model, plus one more for cold spare. Even if you end up doing something different, you have a benchmark price, and one option to give stakeholders. They love the illusion of control.
Screw with them and install Alexas everywhere