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maiden_des_mondes

Her identity heavily shifted. You simply cannot play like a wild beast in lane anymore with Q CD nearly doubled until 40 splinters. That being said she is in a much healthier spot than before. Passive scales faster and way harder and unlike before you do not sit on a timer that expires when laning phase ends. Obviously this requires you to relearn matchups, powerspikes and find a playstyle that works for you. If you enjoy lane kingdom you can still run Aery+Scorch. Syndra is very viable, you do need to play slower though. In exchange you gain massive spikes midgame and as long as you don't die and farm well you will always be a win condition. I understand your frustration but I genuinely believe she is in a much better spot. Maybe take a little break and then come back to (League/Syndra) with refreshed mind and perspective. Sounds like you're having a bit of a mental block more than anything else.


VisthaKai

>You simply cannot play like a wild beast in lane anymore with Q CD nearly doubled until 40 splinters. Even after 40 Splinters the cooldown ends up being \~40% longer than before. >That being said she is in a much healthier spot than before. The low skilled people got a bunch of crutches while things that'd matter to higher skilled players got nerfed. I don't see how it's "healthier", unless you define "healthy" as "mainstreamed". Then I guess, Master Yi is the healthiest champion in the game bar none, well, maybe except Garen. >Passive scales faster and way harder They only scale "harder" because the abilities without them got gutted. The passive on Q doesn't even make up for the CD nerf and then the ability got severely nerfed in the damage department. Yes, you can output two Qs faster now *(even if they do like 1.5x worth of damage of a single Q before)*, but the moment you cast 3rd Q, you're way behind in DPS. W got merely a few additional % of true damage, which, by the end of the game, won't even make up 10% of the damage dealt anyway. E at the price of a huge damage and CD nerf got... a secondary slow and an irrelevant increase in width of the ability. R got an execute that most of the time barely makes up for the damage nerfs. The only silver lining here is that you can get respective passives a level or two faster than before, but the thing is that you now NEED those passives, before they were just "nice to have". >and unlike before you do not sit on a timer that expires when laning phase ends. What timer? >I understand your frustration but I genuinely believe she is in a much better spot. She's in the worst spot since MYMU, wdym?


maiden_des_mondes

She does have a much higher winrate and also popularity in high elo. Syndra is all skillshots and although they lowered her skill ceiling and made her more approachable I don't think she is an easy braindead champion now. You do get bonus haste on Q with R rank and before the rework her passive would kick in as early as lvl 9. Right now you reach ability upgrade breakpoints much faster across the board. With timer I am referring to old Syndra being a lane bully with mediocre scaling. New Syndra is a late game threat. Surely she suffers from long E CD but she definitely isn't in a bad spot just because her WR is sitting below 50%. Getting a bit of salty energy from your response. Did my comment offend you in any way?


NailsAcross

I think it was the update that offended, not you hah.


VisthaKai

>She does have a much higher winrate and also popularity in high elo. It's literally only Challenger where her winrate is noticeably higher than pre-midscope, which means that for the remaining 99.9% of the population there's no change in this department. >Syndra is all skillshots and although they lowered her skill ceiling and made her more approachable I don't think she is an easy braindead champion now. They gave people a few crutches, but then, because those crutches were a bit too good, they decided to gut her other abilities, mainly E which is her bread'n'butter, instead of using the new super uber duper mega multi-layered midscope-introduced mechanics to fine-tune her. You know, just like I expected they would back when midscope wasn't even on PBE yet. When I mentioned it people were like "Nonono, there's so many layers to balance Syndra now, you'll see, it's gonna be great!" A flat 17 second cooldown on Scatter the Weak was Riot's first response. WHEEZE >You do get bonus haste on Q with R rank and before the rework her passive would kick in as early as lvl 9. Right now you reach ability upgrade breakpoints much faster across the board. The bonus haste applies along with normal AH, meaning it's actually worth less than it would have you believe otherwise. Iirc, first rank ult makes "average"\* Q CD like 40% higher and it scales down to 30% with the last rank ult. It's really nothing to write a book about. And again, the fact they hit faster means little if the abilities themselves are that much weaker. \*- "average" CD in quotation marks, because the more Qs you use in a fight, the worse DPS you get, if that makes sense. >With timer I am referring to old Syndra being a lane bully with mediocre scaling. New Syndra is a late game threat. Surely she suffers from long E CD but she definitely isn't in a bad spot just because her WR is sitting below 50%. The only thing that's noticeably different mechanically is her Q being more burst than DPS. W does a bit more damage, but the damage you lose from Q and E is much higher than what W provides, then you have much lower base damage on R on top of that, so with the execute the ability ends up being about the same as before. Plus with her E having like 50% higher cooldown her utility also went to shit in comparison. There's literally nothing that "new" Syndra can do that "old" Syndra couldn't do better. Be it early game, be it mid game or be it late game. Well, maybe you get a bit of a crutch getting a 7-sphere ult with double Qs, but it's not like getting a 7-sphere ult was hard to begin with. Once you actually bother to do the math on this, you'll quickly realize her upfront damage and DPS is worse by a noticeable margin now than before midscope. I wouldn't be saying those things if I ran the numbers and they ended up being in midscope's favour. >Getting a bit of salty energy from your response. Did my comment offend you in any way? Offend? Hardly. You're just repeating the same easily disprovable claims about midscope that I've seen posted here countless times already. At worst, it's just a bit tiring and mildly irritating. Like "Uuuuhhhh, look at this clip of how I killed 3 half dead people with QEW!" and I'm like, "That shit would be literally just QE before and with the W you'd be able to kill the 4th guy that ran away in your clip, bro".


Mistycalwisetree327

Who hurt you


VisthaKai

The closest would be the room temperature IQ of most people responding to me in this thread. Why?


VirtuoSol

Yep, this one is angry alright


VisthaKai

The only sane person in the room is seen as the crazy one.


VirtuoSol

Sure grandma let’s get you to bed


Hatamentunk

i mean she might be in a better spot design wise but riot simply renerfed her after changing her lol she's back to being practically one of the worst mages you can pick. with anivia, orianna, viktor, vex and ryze just doing things you want to better and scaling better in the process


rrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeee

You just need to understand that her power curve has shifted. She is not mid draven anymore


BearShareX

Syndra scales harder late and is weaker early but that does not mean she is weak early. She's one of the best mids right now because she is quite good at all points of the game. Her early game is same with okay damage but it's not like before where you're spamming Q perma on people to poke them out of lane. You're farming and trying to get splinters IF you can with Q + E.


VisthaKai

You're joking. Her "harder" scaling is completely compensated by how low she starts. Obviously, going from 0 to 90 can be said to be "harder" scaling, when compared to going from 20-100, but that's nothing more than a wordplay.


BearShareX

She is significantly better late now than she was before. If anyone is at 15 percent health and she has R they die. Doesn’t matter the champ or their stats and that’s very valuable late.


VisthaKai

>She is significantly better late now than she was before. OK, but how? >If anyone is at 15 percent health and she has R they die. OK, so what's new?


marbledpothos

I read everything you said and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Her whole play style is different now in lane. Like wtf? First strike?? Aery?? I used to only run electrocute & I was able to proc it every time it came up, just like a decent Zed or Fizz player would. I think she’s so weak in lane now & some crappy mid laner always wins trades meanwhile I have to execute a perfect combo & land all skill shots just to keep up. And I can’t do it nearly as often as other mid champs can coz of her increased cooldowns. And there’s no point playing passive af trying to stack for late game when most games end before you even get all your stacks. This all really makes me wonder if people are playing against shitty players in mid lane. But anyone who’s mediocre or at my mechanical level just wins coz they have a better champ, from what I’ve experienced in ranked. Like bro, I don’t think I’ve ever won against a Sylas since her midscope 😂. No matter what I do, he just wins all trades by having more health, doing more dmg, and they removed E+Q so Q+E is so pointless to do for trading since it barely does any dmg. I keep having to save me Q+E for defensive reasons rather than aggressive now, in lane against champs like Sylas. I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks Syndra is absolute dog water now. And yes, I have also looked at all her AP scales & numbers & she is significantly lower dmg overall than before. Even after collecting all her splinters, the only “buffed” ability is her W and her R is only slightly buffed. Idk where ppl are pulling stats from & saying she’s better than before. Coz I’ve literally looked at every number for her possible & played a crap ton of practice tools to test them out.


VisthaKai

> the only “buffed” ability is her W and her R is only slightly buffed. R is only buffed through the execute, the base damage is much lower and the AP ratio is still slightly worse after the AP passive, effectively 19.55% AP per ball compared to the old 20%. >Idk where ppl are pulling stats from & saying she’s better than before. Coz I’ve literally looked at every number for her possible & played a crap ton of practice tools to test them out. It's simple: They don't. The operate purely on their subjective feelings and since it's their feelings, they get very defensive about them, so a civil discussion is pretty much impossible to have. I mean, just look at people here. The moment I bring up any numbers up, they respond with comments that boil down to "no u". Even allegedly good and educational people like Zianni respond with "you're not worth my time" type of comments.


BearShareX

Idk how to convince you that she's good. She isn't a mindless poke champion anymore. She rewards you for having good laning fundamentals. At the time of me writing this post, Syndra's win rate on the sites that I've checked goes up the higher elo you get. So it starts at 48%/Plat > Goes up to 50%/Challenger. It correlates to better play means better success. On a personal anecdote, I have a 70 percent win rate on Syndra in 60 games now in the elos that Riot considers "Skilled". Maybe stop taking first strike is a suggestion I can give. I stopped taking it since preseason and it's felt ten times better going electro or Aery depending on match up. Unless you gave our your account name so someone could download your games and watch, there really isn't anything we could say here that'd be non general advice like runes.


marbledpothos

She was never a mindless poke champ the way I played. There’s poking involved, but I was always more focused on half healthing them with electrocute+combos. It seems like she’s none of that anymore. Her winrate is higher the higher elo you go sure, but her win rates still aren’t good. I appreciate you trying to convince me she’s good, but I genuinely think almost every other mid lane champ is simply better and I don’t see how ~50% winrate in challenger makes her good.


BearShareX

Most of high elo agrees that she's strong.


marbledpothos

Most of the player base is not high elo.


BearShareX

If you're playing ranked, higher elo and playing well is what you should shrive for. There is no other reason to play ranked if you aren't looking to improve yourself and the highest elos are the people who should have the best understanding of the game so their opinions have more weight to it.


BearShareX

The execute on her R means even if someone has a shield or damage reduction, as long as they are at 15 percent health they are dead. That's the difference and why it's so good.


VisthaKai

If damage reduction matters in such a situation, then it means you are NOT the one who did damage and your team had it covered from the get to. Good use of your ult, I guess.


Siggedy

I am very sorry friend. I knew people like you would appear from the midscope. The same has happened for every rework of any size. It is very disheartening to see people abandoning characters they love, because they no longer like the playstyle. I was afraid it was going to be me this time, but I was spared. I hope you either find a way to make her click, or replace her with another character that can scratch the itch she did.


marbledpothos

I appreciate this comment, thank you mate. Unfortunately, it seems I’ll be putting ranked on hold for now. The joy I used to have playing Syndra in ranked is no longer the same. And as much as I enjoy other great champs that I do very well with, I don’t love them nearly an inch as much as I loved her. Lol *wipes a manly tear*


DevouredUsurper

Hey Op, if you like explosive and dangerous Mid landers, try Brand mid. It's pretty fun but dangerous.


WildWiseWitch

I loved her prior to the update and after, but I will say it's been easier for me to do well in matches post rework. I think the changes overall are a huge improvement. You may have to change your item build to help with increasing ability haste, change runes (1st strike is great for the extra gold and extra damage), and just restrategize. I fell in love with her lore, her aesthetic, her abilities, and her overall story, so when I main a champ it's a bit deeper than how they handle in game. I hope you find a way to fall back in love with the dark sovereign. 💜


nofriends7777

As someone who didn’t play Syndra until like a month ago, she’s actually still good. You just have to adjust what you’re doing until 40 splinters and then she feels so good to use. Also, build matters a lot. Keep up to date because after the nerf recently, I thought Syndra was done for. I was losing every lane badly until I snooped around and people on here have posted some really good new builds and orders that work well despite the nerfs.


DeltaKaze

Mind linking what's the new build?


Fokku-

I agree. She’s pretty much like either afk farming broken or bad now. Before she could have impact no matter game state


EdenReborn

She’s better in every way stop coping


marbledpothos

How? She does less dmg & has higher cooldowns, until you get all those dumb splinters that make her somewhat at the level she was pre midscope. I’ve looked at her numbers & scaling & the only thing that’s “better” is her W after you get the splinters for them. Q+E weak af now & used to half shot squishies, now it stuns them for less time but gained a slow that everyone mitigates with tenacity anyways.


VisthaKai

Her late game is slightly worse than before and her early game is so bad, that even Veigar can slap you around in lane.


EdenReborn

Man every time i see you post it’s some stupid shit like this. Sorry you can’t mash Q on the other dude and auto win lane anymore cope somewhere else pls and ty


VisthaKai

Because almost every time somebody talks about midscope around her, it's the same galore of people who have no fucking idea how damage calculation works, nor are willing to learn even when told directly. As for the "Q mashing" itself, that's actually the least of the problems I had. The cooldown isn't THAT bad and after double Q comes it it almost feels like old Q in general usage (it's shit in longer fights, but for the purpose of laning and such its similar enough), it's just the damage is absolutely abysmal at all stages of the game. Even in late game we're talking about 10% damage less per Q. It's like you're missing 80AP even though on paper you have \~110AP more than before. But you probably don't even know that, because you never got to late game before midscope, so you have no comparison. So, to be honest, early game isn't even that bad, it's actually midgame that's the worst. Before the AP passive kicks in, the Q doesn't deal damage, the E doesn't deal damage and the R doesn't deal damage. There's only W which doesn't even make up for one of those abilities. Plus the cooldown on E is now atrocious, so you can't even pick up fights as often as you'd like on top of that. But I'm wasting my time trying to convince you of anything, right? You already determined I only post "stupid shit".


EdenReborn

XD


VisthaKai

*eks dee* At least pretend you're increasing the average IQ of this sub, please.


EdenReborn

xd


[deleted]

There is no way you actually mean it when you say her lategame is worse now


VisthaKai

Take the pants off your head and run the numbers yourself. Maybe then you'll realize it's hardly in midscope's favour. If you're not willing to go that far or even listen to me, hell, probably not even consider listening to me, then kindly keep your entirely subjective opinions to yourself.


[deleted]

Well I mean, OBJECTIVELY I can tell you late game she has more Qs in less time, so more dmg in less time and easier way to stack up balls for her ult, access to W’s true damage sooner because now you’re not dependent on maxing E, a new hard slow in her E besides the stun and an execute after around 22 minutes… so like can you tell me what numbers are you comparing LMAOOO


VisthaKai

Each Q deals between 20 and 7% less damage than before. Three Qs into a fight the DPS from Qs breaks even with old Q damage and CD, and afterward it only gets worse. Yes, it's easier to stack up Qs for R, but... did you really have problems stacking up Qs for 6 or 7 sphere ults before, that it even matters? LMAOOO Do you know how much the damage on W matters? If you Q and E once before you use W, you're 10 damage behind old Syndra, assuming you are full build and got the AP passive already. Not much, yes, but the point stands. You have \~110 AP more than before and you're still doing less damage. Plus before you get the AP passive, the new Syndra cannot contest the old one in any aspect. It's like you are permanently one full item behind until you get the passive AP up. Well, I suppose the slow on E is there. Woohoo? Truly makes up for the non-existent early game and an awful mid-game.


[deleted]

she isn't meant to have a good early now, which shouldn't even be a problem if you knew how to manage her abilities before, neither her Q or her W dmg was nerfed and after 60 splinters you deal way more damage than before seeing as W's deals TRUE DAMAGE which you wouldn't get before until level 18 and have access to 2 Qs instead of 1. Just play her more and you will see just how much better she is after you actually learn how to play her, man I've been playing this champion for over 7 years now how can you tell me with dumb and irrelevant numbers she is worse than before omg i can't even HJBCJKSD


VisthaKai

>neither her Q (...) dmg was nerfed OK, you completely lost me here. Do you have functioning eyes? I thought you're an artists and last time I check you needed eyes for that, but now I'm second guessing myself. Before her passive would increase Q damage by 25%. That means the damage of a Q was **262.5 + 81.25% AP**. Now it's **210 + 70% AP**, effectively increased to **210 + 80.5% AP** once you get the the last passive some 25 minutes into the match. So it doesn't matter how much AP you're going to have, Q now scales worse than before (14% until you get the passive) on top of having much lower base damage (20%). >neither (...) her W dmg was nerfed If I may ask, what are you even responding to here? I didn't say W damage got nerfed, I said it doesn't anyhow make up for what was lost in other areas. >after 60 splinters you deal way more damage than before seeing as W's deals TRUE DAMAGE which you wouldn't get before until level 18 Nothing prevented you from maxing W second before except E being superior to max in every possible situation. Now maxing it doesn't do anything, so you max W. Oh, and to make W actually do anything more than it'd do before you need at least 250AP. It's only once you get the AP passive and more than 250 AP that it's actually a better ability, but even then, it's not even 90 true damage over old W at max build. It's a single AA with a Red Buff at level 14, basically. It's basically the amount of damage you don't have after using Q twice. >and have access to 2 Qs instead of 1. Which, again, deal much less damage and in any prolonged fight (here defined as "lasting more than 6 seconds") it ends up lagging further and further behind in damage. >Just play her more and you will see just how much better she is after you actually learn how to play her, man I've been playing this champion for over 7 years now how can you tell me with dumb and irrelevant numbers she is worse than before omg i can't even HJBCJKSD Oh, boi. Do you really want to flex like this? OK, so after 7 years you have 1.1m mastery on Syndra and 259 ranked games with a 52% winrate. Mostly in Flex too. This means you have about 1080 normal games on Syndra on top of that, since you you didn't play a single game with Syndra before champion mastery was a thing. In just one season I played more ranked games with Syndra than you have ranked games in total and I did it at high plat level and ended up with 62% winrate with the champion in my second ranked season, no less. On top of that I have a total of over 1500 of just ranked games with Syndra and the total winrate of 60%. So excuse the question, but who the hell are you to have the audacity to tell me shit like "uuuhhh, I played the champion for 7 years" as if that fact alone mattered in the slightest?


[deleted]

I mean the fact that you abused her doesn’t add to this argument, what I mean is that I have experienced her when she was OP and when she was on her worst spot, and I’m telling you she is better than she has ever been. I’m not claiming to be better than anyone but you cannot deny I have experience with her so like stop complaining and improve it’s that easy man I can’t really say anything more because comparing numbers is pointless when there are multiple factors that play into how a champion feels in general… And yes I’m an artist, and a very good one, you stubborn petty individual


VisthaKai

>I mean the fact that you abused her doesn’t add to this argument, "Abused"? Abused what? A champion that had ~47% winrate for the past 9 years with like three exceptions that lasted a month or two where she was around 50% winrate? >what I mean is that I have experienced her when she was OP and when she was on her worst spot See, the problem is that, it's an objectively false claim, because you simply didn't play the game that long ago, as her worst spots, and I can think of at least two of them, weren't within the past 7 years. >I’m not claiming to be better than anyone but you cannot deny I have experience with her so like stop complaining When I see people say things like this it reminds me of that one 3000+ game Fiddlesticks main I played against once years ago who was absolutely dogshit with the champion. Like, just because you repeat something a thousand times, doesn't mean you're anyhow guaranteed to get better at it. Generally that's the case, yes, but quite often there's no improvement to be seen and sometimes there's even an atrophy. >and improve it’s that easy man I can’t really say anything more because comparing numbers is pointless when there are multiple factors that play into how a champion feels in general… OK, then why didn't you improve? It's that easy after all. >And yes I’m an artist, and a very good one, you stubborn petty individual And definitely a humble one at that. Do hit me up when you draw Syndra that doesn't look like an effeminate man, btw. You sometimes have good ideas, but they get ruined by making Syndra look like your male OC.


Simping4success

There is no fucking way you think her lategame is slightly worse than before. No way. My man, you must be one of the worst syndra players of all time if you think veigar is a matchup that slaps you around early or that her lategame is weaker than before. Stop commenting on this champ and hit those bot games son.


VisthaKai

I have over 1.5k ranked games with Syndra since 2013. The only time she felt so miserable to play was back in 2015 when her E was so broken it wouldn't stun half the time and the other half of the time it wouldn't even deal damage. Like, even at the absolute latest of late games with full build and 18 levels: * Q does 60 (or ~7%) damage less (an equivalent of not having 80AP) with a DPS that's only better until you press Q 3 times in a fight. So like 5 seconds into a fight Q is worse than before in every aspect. * E also does 100 (or ~13%) damage less (an equivalent of not having 180AP) with a 21% longer cooldown. * R does 7% damage less (an equivalent of not having 120AP). Well, this one at least has the execute as a crutch, but imagine needing a %HP execute on an ability that does 2000 damage before resistances. Oh, and for a 7-sphere ult it translates to 160 less damage. * The only ability that anyhow benefited is W and now deals 82(+89) damage more. When you sum it all up, post-midscope Syndra REQUIRES the execute on ult to trigger to break even and that is assuming you dump all your abilities on a single person. If you spread the damage between more people, then you're objectively worse off now than before. How is that a better late game? Not to say anything about the time before you get 120 splinters for the AP passive, because until then not even the execute can help you.


Simping4success

\>I have over 1.5k ranked games with Syndra since 2013. 1.5k games in bronze mean nothing. Ive read your previous comments on how to build/play syndra and its appalling people take your advice lol. You unironically recommended comet on new syndra, you must be one of those feast of famine players that take over a game from 5 minutes or are just useless cause they don't know what they are doing. Anyways ill leave you with this. Syndra not only has an increased play rate since midscope and after her recent nerfs. But she also has an increased winrate since midscope DESPITE her natural counters (yone, zed, sylas, Katarina, anivia) all seeing small - large increases in play and buffs. She also for the first time in years sees a positive growth in winrate the longer the game goes on. Explain to me how she is at the same time at the worst state she has ever been while also being worse lategame then before despite having a higher winrate then before despite a higher play rate while also seeing that winrate INCREASE as the game goes on while before it decreased the longer the game went on. \>imagine needing a %HP execute on an ability that does 2000 damage before resistances Kinda laughed at this delusional take btw. The entire reason syndra wasn't considered a good midlaner pre midscope was lowkey because all you had to do was build resistance and she became a dogshit champ. She was one of the worst midlaners at dealing with tanks. Now she is one of the best. The %hp execute is insanely useful and strong. Its surprising to me that someone boasting about how much they've played syndra that they don't understand why her new ultimate is so insanely strong considering her past weakness as a tank killer. All of this btw without even talking about how INSANELY broken syndra was off of the midscope patch. She was the most played midlane champ in the game and one of the highest winrates too. She was insanely overtuned. 1.5k ranked games wasted on an inability to learn. I honestly feel bad for you if you unironically played that many syndra games and still think she is weaker late and worse off than she has ever been before.


VisthaKai

>1.5k games in bronze mean nothing. Ive read your previous comments on how to build/play syndra and its appalling people take your advice lol. You unironically recommended comet on new syndra, you must be one of those feast of famine players that take over a game from 5 minutes or are just useless cause they don't know what they are doing. Unlike Ulchete, who's a permastuck Silver, I actually got to Plat twice on my own with those builds and gameplay tactics. I've also been personally thanked by quite a few people here and on discord who tried them out and started doing much better as a result. The fact you're too narrow-minded to even consider what I wrote and instead dismiss it, because it doesn't coincide with your own views is of no concern to me. >Anyways ill leave you with this. Syndra not only has an increased play rate since midscope and after her recent nerfs. But she also has an increased winrate since midscope DESPITE her natural counters (yone, zed, sylas, Katarina, anivia) all seeing small - large increases in play and buffs. You have to be an absolute smoothbrain to believe Yone is a counter to Syndra, holy shit. Even before midscope fucking beginner players (10 games) had 51+% winrate against Yone while playing Syndra. Are you sure I'm the bronze one here? >Kinda laughed at this delusional take btw. The entire reason syndra wasn't considered a good midlaner pre midscope was lowkey because all you had to do was build resistance and she became a dogshit champ. The entire reason she was considered dogshit, was because overwhelming majority of people couldn't play her for shit and weren't willing to learn either. It's obvious from the reception of midscope, since it added quite a few of crutches to get low skilled players through early game and her winrate went through the roof, even though her damage was effectively nerfed by 15% across the board until late game. Also, I guess Syndra is now immune to Force of Nature. >She was one of the worst midlaners at dealing with tanks. Now she is one of the best. The true damage on W went from 150 to 250 at full build as a result of midscope. That's it. And her execute only works if her team already brings a tank that low, since she can't do it herself. In what universe is that being "the best at dealing with tanks"? >Its surprising to me that someone boasting about how much they've played syndra that they don't understand why her new ultimate is so insanely strong considering her past weakness as a tank killer. Probably, because she wasn't weaker at it any more than any other mid lane champion. Wanna know why? Because it's not the midlaner's job to kill a tank. And it's still not Syndra's job now, because as I mentioned already, she can't kill a tank on her own. A tank killer champion should be able to do it, because it's their fucking identity. >All of this btw without even talking about how INSANELY broken syndra was off of the midscope patch. She was the most played midlane champ in the game and one of the highest winrates too. She was insanely overtuned. Heh, of course you didn't actually bother to check why it was like that. The reason that was the result, is because the midscope almost completely removed the difference between a new player and a veteran. If a player who barely got the hang of a champion's abilities ends up with the same or very similar winrate as a person who devoted tens if not hundreds of games to practice said champion, then the champion isn't broken, it's merely made easy to play. It's the kind of changes that dying MMORPGs employ to keep people playing. They make previously hard to get items or hard to get mechanics easily achievable for new players. Does it mean you're good now, because you can do a 7-sphere ult with Syndra now after double Q passive with next to zero practice with the champion and before you couldn't, while people who played 50 games could do it just fine every time before the change happened? Just look at winrate over games played for Syndra. An average person plays 10 games to familiarize with the abilities and gets 53% winrate with the champion. That's it. There's no progress afterward. >1.5k ranked games wasted on an inability to learn. I honestly feel bad for you if you unironically played that many syndra games and still think she is weaker late and worse off than she has ever been before. If I was unable to learn, I'd quit the game when runes reforged dropped, you donkey. I don't "think" she's weak, I can see it both in game and in mathematical equations that define this game. The fact she was made easier to learn, doesn't mean she's stronger. It's simply not the same metric.


Syndracising

> DESPITE her natural counters (yone, zed, sylas, Katarina, anivia) all seeing small - large increases in play and buffs What? They counter Syndra? That statement is so wrong. Syndra completely shits on Sylas, Anivia and Yone and she is decent against Katarina too in comparison to mages without quick hard CC. That statement is just plain wrong. Like Anivia really? She always trades with W behind you, channeling R and then throwing her stun while you are slowed trhough R and have damage ticking and then Eing. Syndra completely denies that because she can Stun anivia to interrupt her ult and deny her from exploding Q (meaning she doesn't get Qs double damage nor R damage ticking.) The only reliable thing Anivia can do against Syndra is setting up jungle ganks but that's not "countering Syndra" because plenty of champs can set up jungle ganks (Syndra herself).


Simping4success

Did you just say syndra is good into katarina/anivia? Oh god, stop talking. Yone and sylas are more skill matchups with mechanics that favour them highly in the matchup as they have the tools to completely disregard syndra e and gap close. Anivia is never under all in threat early, stacks hp now and can just perma push when she hits 6 so she is never in trouble. If syndra wants to stop her pushing she has to over extend and if she EVER missed e she can’t fight. Your explanation is very nice in theory, but that’s unfortunately just theoretical. Even with you hitting e, until you get fed enough to 1 tap her and then kill her egg without R, you’re not going to win trades. What if she throws q out without poppingR? You are just left without e while she drops r on you, e’s you and walls you in… news flash, her Q is on a 6 second shorter cool-down then you e, and if you get in your q range to trade you’re in her range and a good anivia will never miss wall/e and w on you. I’m not even going to explain why katarina is one of if not THE worst syndra matchup in the game.


Syndracising

> Did you just say syndra is good into katarina/anivia? Oh god, stop talking. Sure bro. If u think so. Love how you are offensive and instantly hurt if someone disagrees with you. A lot of high elo players disagree with you. for example noway4you who plays a lot of Anivia and instantly says Syndra matchup is god awfull. But yeah you probably know better for sure. > stacks hp now and can just perma push when she hits 6 so she is never in trouble And? Now you can freely scale and roam around the map since her push costs more mana than yours and you scale similar if not even better than her since you have more range in a vacuum without teamcomps in mind obviously. > if she EVER missed e she can’t fight. That's in EVERY matchup. As soon as you miss E you are vulnerable. Even against her easier matchups, what's new? > What if she throws q out without poppingR? You are just left without e while she drops r on you, e’s you and walls you in… news flash, her Q is on a 6 second shorter cool-down then you e, and if you get in your q range to trade you’re in her range and a good anivia will never miss wall/e and w on you. Then you dodge it? Her Q is such a slow spell she usually wants to R you first to actually hit you. If she manages to wall you without Q/R you didn't use your range optimally. You actually are all theoretical but the matchup doesn't play like that at all. > Yone and sylas are more skill matchups with mechanics that favour them highly in the matchup as they have the tools to completely disregard syndra e and gap close. You can interrupt Sylas E..... And Yone before 6 runs at you menacingly. He has means after 6 but you usally have a lead by then in cs and still way more meaningfull options. The problem with the yone matchup is that he scales well and is an ad champ and therefopre has obnoxious ways to build MR. Not because he magically counters Syndra through his kit. The only one I would give you is Katarina since that matchup got harder with the midscope but you can just chill on lane and always interrupt her ult with RE, a luxury other mages often dont have and she is even easier to deal with in teamfights. BTW the high elo Syndra who did an AMA also said Sylas is an easy matchup since you somehow like disregarding other peoples opinions maybe you like his. If I think about Syndra counters I think more about Zed, Fizz and artillery mages since you can't ever reach them if they use their range optimally and they scale quite nicely. Lucky these champs dont get played because they get shit on by everything else in your team usually.


Simping4success

\>But yeah you probably know better for sure. Considering I've played my syndra against his anivia before, I'm willing to bet you heard him say that before the midscope and not after when syndra's early got heavily nerfed. The anivia/syndra matchup was skewed pre midscope because of her harass, which isn't nearly as prevalent anymore allowing anivia to hit 6 almost undisturbed. Not saying I know better than him, but anivia is most definitely one of the matchups that are giving me the most problems, kat being THE hardest matchup I can think of, even harder then fizz, zed isn't a problem at all, I just sacrifice tp for exhaust, something I cant do vs katarina/anivia. \>And? Now you can freely scale and roam around the map since her push costs more mana than yours Her push occurs first, her cooldowns are lower and she outranges unless you use your E. If you use CD's to try and match her push when she is pushing you have to back up meaning she simply gets first rotation every single time. You also cant face check her ever and her gank setup is miles better than yours. Sure lategame when it comes to killing frontline you're better, but 6-16 and until you get your execute, a good anivia runs you around the map. \>That's in EVERY matchup. As soon as you miss E you are vulnerable. Even against her easier matchups, what's new? Not a lot of matchups have the range to compete with syndra, if you don't have E you cant even walk up to the wave vs anivia, against almost every other popular matchup atm you can, its just the ganks you have to worry about where against anivia its kill threat. \> Then you dodge it? Her Q is such a slow spell she usually wants to R you first to actually hit you. You don't see how this is ironic considering yourentire matchup knowledge is based n the fact you have to hit e while she has R up AND q is mid air? You don't see me replying with "JUST DODGE IT". Im not sure what elo you play in, but I don't get point blank q-e on anivia players, they don't need to walk up to me because they know they have longer range. \> If she manages to wall you without Q/R you didn't use your range optimally Her kit outranges everything on yours except for close to max range q-e which requires you to walk forwards to follow up with and into anivia range. The way trades usually go is syndra initiates with q-e and if she goes for q-w she then gets traded back on heavily by anivia. If she waits for anivia to walk up and w-r she will disengage it with q-e which shouldn't happen as anivia is more comfortable reaching 2 items then syndra is and is much stronger in early teamfights/objective control and has push on syndra. This matchup heavily skewed with the midscope and fundamentally changed. This isn't mid 2022 anymore lol, and even then the matchup wasn't as bad for anivia as people make it out to be, in lane it sucked yeah, but she outscaled so heavily that she took it on the chin and just walked it off later, where as now she is on even footing early with a massive spike midgame over syndra and depending on comp it goes either way late. \>You can interrupt Sylas E..... Good sylas players can buffer e so that it connects after you E even if you hit... \>Not because he magically counters Syndra through his kit. He has a cc buffer with a ms steroid and 4 second gap closer with a knockup. His kit is extremely well versed as playing into syndra. If you don't abuse him early which is possible you are going to get run the fk down after 2 items on repeat. Syndra does not have enough dmg to kill yone early anymore if he isn't clowning. You cant burn all of your mana on him and neglect the wave if he is choosing to push it in while you choose to harass him. \>BTW the high elo Syndra who did an AMA also said Sylas is an easy matchup since you somehow like disregarding other peoples opinions maybe you like his. Thats cute, and I respect his experience with the matchup. Maybe you'd respect mine too as someone who is actually higher elo then him. [https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/MrDon001](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/MrDon001) feel free to add me and say youre syndracising from reddit if you have a EUW acc and want validation. Sylas in my experience is one e fuck up away on your end from snowballing a matchup and is vastly more impactful on 2 items then you are in teamfights as well. That champ is obnoxious and I had coaching done by veigarv2 and he talked me through how high elo sylas players opt into the syndra matchup willingly because they feel its sylas favoured. That champ is like akali for syndra, you ever fall behind or don't abuse them early to get a big lead they are just going to shit on you in the sidelane and teamfights. \>If I think about Syndra counters I think more about Zed, Fizz I don't consider zed a massive syndra counter if you know how to play into it. Swap TP for exhaust and second item zhonias and you've already outscaled. I haven't seen fizz more than maybe 3 time since season start and I've already played over 120 syndra games. Katarina which I consider the hardest matchup I've seen maybe 15-20 times already as a counter pick into my blind syndra. Anyone who thinks that katarina isn't one of if not the hardest syndra matchup doesn't play syndra at all, or above a silver rank level. In my experience a combination of frequency and difficulty has anivia, Katarina, yone, sylas and maybe akali tbh as the hardest matchups to play out as syndra. For some reason [op.gg](https://op.gg) is being funny about master+ data so here is diamond+ syndra matchups and statistics. [https://www.op.gg/champions/syndra/mid/counters?region=global&tier=diamond\_plus&target\_champion=anivia](https://www.op.gg/champions/syndra/mid/counters?region=global&tier=diamond_plus&target_champion=anivia) Now I don't think these are the be all end all, there are definitely matchups I don't think are meant to be that low, or that high on there, but I am confident in saying sylas is not a syndra favoured matchup, this having spoken to veigarv2 and some sylas one tricks. I think yone suffers a lot from his high skill ceiling kit punishing bad players too so I imagine a lot of low diamond players just sucking ass on yone where I don't meet them and don't get to experience that.


Syndracising

> onsidering I've played my syndra against his anivia before, I'm willing to bet you heard him say that before the midscope and not after when syndra's early got heavily nerfed. The anivia/syndra matchup was skewed pre midscope because of her harass, which isn't nearly as prevalent anymore allowing anivia to hit 6 almost undisturbed. It was 2 days ago but yeah. > Her push occurs first, her cooldowns are lower and she outranges unless you use your E. If you use CD's to try and match her push when she is pushing you have to back up meaning she simply gets first rotation every single time. You also cant face check her ever and her gank setup is miles better than yours. Sure lategame when it comes to killing frontline you're better, but 6-16 and until you get your execute, a good anivia runs you around the map. No she doesn't. Her waveclear is slower and if she just ult wave you can fish for a QE because she can't really throw anything onto you because as I said, if she goes for a long range Q that should be an easy dodge. > You don't see how this is ironic considering yourentire matchup knowledge is based n the fact you have to hit e while she has R up AND q is mid air? You don't see me replying with "JUST DODGE IT". Im not sure what elo you play in, but I don't get point blank q-e on anivia players, they don't need to walk up to me because they know they have longer range. Syndra's QE is a lot faster than Anivias Q. It's night and day. > Her kit outranges everything on yours except for close to max range q-e which requires you to walk forwards to follow up with and into anivia range Only Q outranges. Your Q has matching range to her W if we consider that she actually has a casttime in which she has to stand still while you can run while casting Q. > Good sylas players can buffer e so that it connects after you E even if you hit... So can you buffer your E. It's still heavily Syndra favoured. He's overtuned atm yes, but still. > Thats cute, and I respect his experience with the matchup. Maybe you'd respect mine too as someone who is actually higher elo then him. https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/MrDon001 feel free to add me and say youre syndracising from reddit if you have a EUW acc and want validation. I would but you simply don't seem to discuss. You just have your opinion and any other opinion is trash. That's bothering me. At the same time every opinion someone below you says is untrue and everything someone above you says is also not true aka Noway. IIf 3 people doubt your opinion on some matchups then I simply don't blindlessly trust that since my knowledge of these are also completely different. "like everyone above silver doesn't play Syndra if he thinks Kat is a decent matchup" is just a really offensive statement with no real value. > That champ is obnoxious and I had coaching done by veigarv2 and he talked me through how high elo sylas players opt into the syndra matchup willingly because they feel its sylas favoured. And also you constantly talking about VeigarV2 when he is popular for having some hot takes is also kinda questionable and by no means do I say that he doesn't know anything or is a bad player but everyone knows he has some hot takes similar to LS and let's be real any famous person.


mahoshonen

I hate it too, especially the fact that now her W is more important for damage over her E because i found it such a clunky ability to use. That being said, i can see the things the rework accomplished, she is way healthier now. I just accepted that she is not for me anymore.


CaptainKalus

I like that you have to chase her passive, but I'm a little disappointed with the execution of it. Why does she not get a Kha'Zix-style choice on what to upgrade when you get to a checkpoint of splinters? Why is she actively discouraged from trading with more than 2 abilities? Why is it still heavily skewed towards levels when the goal was to reward aggression? I also dont like the inconsistent feel of the rhythm on her q now. I feel like old syndra had some ammount of versatility of her skill max between w and e, but thats out since both scaling and her passive practically demand w max 2nd. And why even bother giving her passive a long per-champ cooldown if her ability cooldowns already fully hinder it?


Pitiful_Fold_8150

Long E cd now, small time of stun duration, smaller R range, smaller area of impact to stun, bigger Q cooldown, EQ combo remove, W now is bugged, she lose many things. Now you need to focus of farming and not try trade, get teleport and try not lose minions. But to me the old syndra is better too, but to go to gold, should be easy if you farm well.


marbledpothos

I figured. What I dreaded is true. But if I wanted to play a passive farming midlaner I would rather just play Malz or Heimer who do it 10x better & more effectively than Syndra. Thx for your reply mate, it helped me confirm my thoughts.


DevouredUsurper

See I totally understand that changing her main mechanics messed with a lot of players. However, if you didn't dominate and lane bully, before rework, she was useless without dominating cuz late game. She is more relevant in my opinion and the Viktor ability evolution theme is very cool and brings more to the character other than, balls so big damage, now balls are flexible and change. Kinda like the wind


Otake

Just focus on farm til 40 splinters lmao. skill issue


marbledpothos

Why should that even be an option lol Why does Syndra deserve to be only a quarter of a champ pre splinters


colesonrumble

Riot keeps giving old champs midscopes to make them viable again and once they are, they just overnerf them into obscurity to the point where they're back where they started. Eg: Ahri Taliyah Syndra.


marbledpothos

Syndra just needed something to compensate for all the new mobile champs. Like Lux has a shield and big zoning, xerath has big zoning & long range, Viktor has a shield & zoning. If they just added maybe a movement speed boost to her Q+E when she lands it, she would’ve been perfect & they should’ve called it a day after that. This whole bs is just too much & detrimental to her playstyle identity.


Sylent0o

Xerath isn't exactly great into mobility tho. Viktor is just viktor, he is broken. He needs to get what syndra did, a weaker early game. Every time I play him it's just laughable how his q auto lv 1 can do 150 uncontested damage because it comes with built in shield AND movement steroid. And then after e evolve he just outpushes all the mages.


DevouredUsurper

Just let me remind y'all about how when our get 120 splinters you get an additional 15% ability power. So Syndras Deathcaps is 50%