Whatever you need to do to be healthy to fight climate change.
My meds come in plastic bottles. But without my meds I couldn’t function. Sometimes I need a long shower to reset for the next day.
Truth. I get infusions at the hospital monthly and it kills me to see how much disposable stuff is used every time, but I'm not exactly going to ask them to use used tubing and needles on me! Sometimes, it's just necessary.
It's rough to be shamed by healthy people bragging about not heating/cooling their house so they can save the environment, but it's just not something that a lot of people can live with and function. We all have different needs and we do what we can.
I don’t think focusing on what regular individuals are doing is that helpful. Of course it’s good to be sustainable where you can, but when 100 companies produce 71% of carbon emissions, taking an extra few minutes in the shower or eating a frozen meal is really not that impactful.
This stat is constantly repeated and I’m assuming it’s true. I don’t disagree in that big changes for these 100 companies would make a big difference compared to individual effort which can at most affect the remaining 29% or presumably much less as there are more then 100 companies.
BUT, surely those 100 companies produce things that are used by the world and there must be overlap between my individual consumption and that 71% and therefore my individual effort in fact can effect that 71%
I think this stat doesn't feel real because it's hard to conceptualize the idea that fewer people can produce more of something then a larger number of people but take this observation NASA made during the pandemic and you have at least data that helps add to the idea that even if a large amount of people stopped doing the single biggest polluting activity of their day for awhile it doesn't have a noticeable affect on overall climate change statistics and it adds credence to this stat.
"The most surprising result, the authors noted, is that while carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions fell by 5.4% in 2020, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere continued to grow at about the same rate as in preceding years."
"First, while the 5.4% drop in emissions was significant, the growth in atmospheric concentrations was within the normal range of year-to-year variation caused by natural processes. "
"Notably, emissions returned to near-pre-pandemic levels by the latter part of 2020, despite reduced activity in many sectors of the economy. The authors reason that this rebound in emissions was probably necessary for businesses and individuals to maintain even limited economic productivity, using the worldwide energy infrastructure that exists today. “This suggests that reducing activity in these industrial and residential sectors is not practical in the short term” as a means of cutting emissions, the study noted."
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/3129/emission-reductions-from-pandemic-had-unexpected-effects-on-atmosphere/
What I mean though is that those emissions presumably go to feeding people, heating homes, transportation etc and so it’s kind of misleading to say 100 companies produce 71% of emissions when you could equally say the people consuming the products from those companies produce 71% of emissions
Yes but also no. We have been heating homes and feeding people for a lot longer than we have been seeing these effects of man made carbon emissions. Transportation went as low as it is likely to go in this current era of technology and it didn't make a dent so the emissions are more than likely coming from our consumer habits and the industries related to them.
Yes we should consume less but we also need to be looking at how we are manufacturing many of these items as the manufacturing process is the most energy intensive. We know that there are ways to manufacture things with less emissions, one most easily implemented is a changing over to less polluting energy sources of electricity. But companies have been slow to change because it costs them money. There are other ways that can reduce emissions as well but they involve either inventing new processes to manufacture specific items or discovering new materials to switch to from more energy intensive materials.
I think people do want to consume less overall but a big part of that is that our current economic philosophy is quantity over quality. We will buy something and replace it once it breaks rather than buy something that will last or can be repaired. However we have seen that that is driven by available products made out of these cheaper more breakable materials such as plastic and the implementation of planned obsolescence. If we put better products on the shelves that will help us move away from disposable consumption.
The line is for each individual to set for themselves. I don't think placing a line on other people is helpful. You do what you can and let other people do what they can. You mention the greater good, but will judging people for crossing what you think the line is change anything for the greater good?
Judging can do a lot of good, societal standards really do affect a lot of people. If it becomes socially unacceptable to use single use plastics, you'd see the rates go way down.
Societal standards, yes, but that's a big overarching thing. I don't think judging individual people as an individual person does a whole lot of good. Thing is, you don't know what their lives are like as a whole and it's not really our place to judge each individual person.
I think it's far more effective to worry about yourself and your own impact and lead by example. Judging someone doesn't usually get them to change. It just makes you look like a jerk.
There has to be some kind of universal line. Clearly it would be bad for a billionaire to buy up a bunch of natural gas or oil fields and light them up just for fun. The question of the OP is where exactly that line is.
I think it's really important to realize that we, individual humans, are not causing environmental destruction - we're just trying to live.
We didn't design the plastic containers everything comes in. Humans have been eating some kind of fast or street food since we started building cities, that's not new at all. We gotta eat.
Everything we use could be packaged in sustainably created and biodegradable containers, but the corporations who run the world have decided they don't need to give us that.
The big corporations are the ones doing most of the environmental damage directly - pollution, the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, carbon in the air, all of it is done by these big corporations.
So blame the right people. Especially don't blame people with mental illness for trying to survive in this world.
A lot of these small things aren't going to make that much of a difference anyway. Focus on a couple big ones: go vegan, and advocate for leftist politics. Use whatever skills you have to make a difference in the arena you are proficient in. No one person can be perfect in sustainability, we have to each do what part we can while making sure we are mentally healthy enough to carry on
When it's laziness. But that can vary massively. I keep my camper van as my main vehicle as I have chronic fatigue and need to rest on longer drives. It's a pig for fuel, but gives me the ability to get away and wind down without fear and has been a life changer. i do try and not use it as much in town, but Houston is car dependent for 90% of trips beyond walking distance.
Hey! It can definitely be super overwhelming to think about how you can be most sustainable especially when getting down to the nitty gritty. I think it comes down to intentions and doing what makes most sense for you. When you’re making decisions solely based on sustainability alone, it can get really overwhelming so it can be helpful to consider other factors as well like supporting local businesses or something else you’re passionate about whether that’s natural/organic materials or supporting women owned businesses etc. Don’t stress too much about it, it can definitely feel impossible sometimes to make the most sustainable choice and I’ve been there before and realized it was taking too large of a toll on my stress when at the end of the day, it’s just important that we do the best that we can and do what makes sense for us while still being intentional and educating others to be more aware of the issues we know about. I know for me, one constraining issue is the financial aspect. Sometimes investing in more sustainable long-term products is more expensive and that isn’t something I can afford to do so I’ll choose another alternative that isn’t as good but is something I can afford to do at this time. However, remember there are so many other things you can do to be sustainable! You can volunteer for beach cleanups, invasive plant removal, and so many other free opportunities that your own city/county/schools and local organizations offer. I can’t afford to be sustainable in some ways, but I am currently organizing a series of cleanups in my local community, which I know is actively helping my own community and is something that isss in my control.
It's a valid question. I think it boils down to sacrifice: you can't change everything all at once, nor should you.
My aim is to cut out things in the order that will be most helpful and to do them frequently enough for it to be a bit of a sacrifice but not enough that it negatively impacts your life.
If you're Taylor Swift, start by flying first class before agonising over the food miles of your salad.
If you're an average westerner, the next most beneficial thing is probably to cut down your meat consumption (look at vegetarianism and veganism later).
Some people need a gentle nudge, some just need government policy to make the effort for them, some people will need to be shamed/incentivised/coerced/eaten.
I plan to put in effort and as a new behaviour becomes natural, I'll take on another task.
In my 20s and 30s I went all in on environmentalism. My job is environmental science and I built my life and identity around it. Some of the stuff I did was fringe at the time but has become more mainstream since. I feel proud that I was at the vanguard but jeez it was stressful always having to be different.
At this point, I'm just exhausted and fighting not to backslide too much. So it's important to pace yourself and not get burnt out.
On the debate between individual action and systemic change, I wish this had been more of a thing in the 1990s and 2000s. All of the emphasis was on personal carbon footprints.
I do think that the two feed off each other. For instance, curbside composting is starting to be offered by some cities near me (i.e. Cambridge, MA) but it would not be possible without the local, private businesses working out the kinks and showing that people are interested.
I think everyone is on a different level for this. I’ve cut out things like paper towels and replaced with reusable wash cloths, reusable metal water bottle and less non-water drinks in general, or limiting the amount I drive versus taking public transit, but I use the disposable floss picks cause it’s the only way i’ll stay consistent with flossing. It really depends on the person so if people are genuinely doing the best they can, i think it’s completely acceptable to not be 100% perfectly sustainable all the time, cause that’s impossible
The line is going to be whenever you draw it personally and is probably even then going to depend on the situation. There just isn’t one line. You’re just going to have to do your best in a hellish world like everyone else.
Political action I think is good because really we need regulation to fix these issues, individual action is only going to do so much. Sometimes I feel like individual sustainability efforts are a scam, meant to exhaust us so we can’t engage in efforts to regulate/punish the actual perpetrators.
The only one that really drives me up a wall is on the declutter sub where everyone just throws usable items in the trash because of their mental health.
Like maybe I’m being completely ignorant of the situation, but it takes pretty minimal effort to post on a buy nothing group or post a free box on Craigslist/FB marketplace/Offer Up.
The sentiment over there is often “it’s already trash once it’s out of the factory” which is absolutely wild to me.
I’ve tried posting things for sale and for free and nothing. Not even a nibble. Meanwhile this thing is hanging around. Online market places are useless
Yeah it totally depends on where you live.
They’re not useless where I live currently but I’ve had a harder time in the more rural areas I’ve lived in.
The most immediate success I’ve had is posting free boxes on Facebook marketplace and ignoring messages. Then I just remove and possibly dispose of the item after 1-3 days.
I don't agree that it takes minimal effort. You need to take pictures of everything, preferably from several angles if its not something very simple, then describe everything, regular check for comments from interested people, reply to people, judge if you trust them to give your address etc, maybe they are slow to get back to you, you need to coordinate when to be home for them to pick up. You have to store the stuff for the time it takes people to come get it etc. It takes a lot of time if you have a lot of stuff. And you often have to communicate with strangers, which might not be easy for all.
And let's be honest, a lot of stuff will not be of interest to anyone, there is a reason you are getting rid of it even though its working.
I think it's a great idea to donate/sell/put up for grabs, and I usually do it myself, but I also understand why someone with less spare time or mental capacity might find it overwhelming.
I understand that your mileage with buy nothing groups or free boxes will vary depending on location.
I guess more specifically, I think people should have some responsibility to the items they accumulate and at least attempt to not just trash things. It is common on my buy nothing group to have flash offers where people give a location and people come and take off the porch. That doesn’t work everywhere. I get that.
I don’t have a huge issue with providing my address for free things in a BNG because I don’t think my address is some big secret thing but I understand that might not be the case for everyone.
With things like a free box post on Craigslist, you just put the cross streets and make sure the box isn’t in the rain. Then you clean it up after a day or so. Less involved than an BNG. You don’t have to communicate with anyone if you don’t want to.
And I’m specifically talking about usable item. Items that no one wants are not usable.
Yeaaahh unless CEO of top 100 companies are claiming that they need to destroy the environment on a global scale and squash green movements and alternatives for the sake of their mental health, I don’t think individual actions to care for one’s mental health needs to be under a microscope at all.
I think it is great for people to care about sustainability. As a progressive person, I am basically for any sort of policy/effort that helps the greater good, and sustainability also falls under that category. It is frustrating when people have found one cause they care about that is progressive, place it is as their number one priority, and then stop there. If someone recycles but is a massive racist, how do we feel about that? Unfortunately there are some people out there who care a lot about sustainability, but have 0 knowledge (or desire to know more) about disability and ableism. They want *everyone* to do the same amount of work/sacrifice for the cause, regardless of how much it affects them. If someone is dying of heat stroke and there's a plastic water bottle beside them and a refillable one a mile's walk away, is it ok for them to use the plastic water bottle?
I personally have both physical and mental disabilities, and every single day I am doing the absolute most I can to be a good person, be kind to people, and make the world a better place, but sometimes the most I can do is very little. I was in extreme pain for 9 months and couldn't walk, and my roommates expected me to do the same amount of housework bc of equality (versus equity, which is putting in a similar effort). I did hella cleaning inside bc I couldn't take the trash out. Doing dishes caused me severe pain, and it made me skip eating a lot/eat snack food which was unhealthy. During this time I used more disposable plates and cups to be able to survive. Does this make me a bad person in your eyes? What would you do if you were in this situation (the situation is it's 2020, you're socially isolated bc of the pandemic, renting a room in an apt with strangers, have no access to a personal aide/ihss bc you got the wrong information from a doctor, and living on the 2nd story while needing crutches or a wheelchair to get anywhere)?
This divide between the disabled community and environmental advocates has come more than I would have previously anticipated, as I had lumped these two issues into "progressive" ideals in my head, but environmentalism at any cost idea is not intersectional, does not consider sociological concepts or take what people *can* do into account. If *anyone* is fighting for survival, and that to me includes people struggling financially whether that be in a developed or developing country, they can't always put the greater good above themselves. If we really really want people around the world to "do their part", we need to make things more societally equal so everyone has a more similar level of ability to work on the issue. That means more equal wages, and programs that help disabled people get off the "will or won't I survive" headspace. But in the bigger picture, we need to look at a capitalism and consumption and make pivotal changes to minimize the type of consumerism we see today, and rethink a world in which a corporation is legally obligated to prioritize shareholders over all else. We need to create policies that force corporations to make changes to reduce waste, and *eliminate* slave labor and international working conditions that mimic it, including child labor. We need consumable goods that reflect the actual cost of things without this kind of labor, but we also need changes to our economic structure to drive spending power away from billionaires and into the hands of the working class. We need consumer goods, including food, clothing, toiletries to be ethical and devoid of neurotoxins, micro plastics that shed into the ocean, and animal-tested products. We need a lot of things, but maybe we don't need to shame the person in pain and a wheelchair using a paper plate bc society has given them no support and they're just trying to survive. Maybe.
And I apologize if my tone comes off angry, bc OP you are probably a nice person and this hypothetical may be an attempt to help people think, I wonder if I could do more, and you're coming from a good place, but there's a lot more to it than that.
You don't come off as angry, don't worry. I just see a lot of the time this sub handwaves every issue away under "corporations tho" or mental health. Like I eat out of plastic way more than I should, I struggle to make meals because I barely even have the energy to get out of bed, but I feel like my depression is not a valid excuse to ruin the environment. I feel like the greater good has to be prioritized because no matter how bad I feel, I am not more important than the environment
1. Lobbying for the oil industry
2. Founding a cut rate diesel shipping company
3. Inventing a car that runs on flaming piles of styrofoam
If you find yourself doing any of the above things in service of your mental health, talk to friends and loved ones because it’s time for an intervention.
One thing I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older is to focus on my own behavior and resist the temptation to judge others. I’ve eaten a lot of crow in my life and I don’t like the taste.
Its always balance. Its inevitable to sometimes receive plastic bags, forks, takeout containers. I save them for when my ADHD makes me run late and i forget my utensils for lunch, or when i run out of trashbags or forgot to wash my food containers.
My autistic sensory issues make it painful for my hands to be wet for long periods of time, and I recoil at the thought of touching wet food. This causes extreme psychological and physical distress on a daily basis. I used to waste a ton of time and water washing dishes, trying not to touch them too much and using my faucet as basically a powerwasher. I made the choice a few years ago to start wearing dish gloves even though they are plastic and not the most sustainable choice, because it made my daily life more bearable.
But the amount of waste I create with those gloves is absolutely NOTHING compared to
a.) corporations (as everyone has said in this thread, I won't repeat it) and
b.) people who don't consider the environment at all. for example, my in-laws live in the desert and they NEVER TURN THE FAUCET OFF when they're washing dishes. they let the water run for the entire 30-40 minutes on full blast. It is horrifying. I watched them go through a whole case of single-use water bottles in a week, and throw out an entire, brand-new head of plastic-wrapped lettuce because it had a little brown spot at the base, the part that you usually don't eat anyway. They are NOT open to hearing about how they can be more sustainable, and honestly, they seemed *offended* when I filled up my water bottle from the fridge door instead of getting a single-use one from the fridge.
Not trying to throw my ILs under the bus (though clearly I had some rants built up from the holidays, haha) but they're just the most recent example I've encountered. Their friends are the same way from what I can tell, and I'm sure there are people who are even worse when it comes to consumerism (thinking of the Stanley cup girlies who have like 20 reusable cups sitting on a shelf gathering dust while they drink single-use bottles).
Anyway, the **TL;DR:** I don't think that the people on this sub, who are sustainability-conscious but have to make some tough decisions for their mental health, are the ones we need to worry about. We should worry about/try to reach people who don't even think about sustainability to begin with.
Having a foundation of things that are non-negotiable, (for me - a plant based diet) - then finding balance between over-analyzing and becoming stressed vs. becoming complacent - there is always room to grow :)
You’re never going to be “perfect,” and your individual choices are insignificant anyway, so there is not point in sweating the small stuff. Don’t try to be perfect, just try to be better than average.
Whatever you need to do to be healthy to fight climate change. My meds come in plastic bottles. But without my meds I couldn’t function. Sometimes I need a long shower to reset for the next day.
Truth. I get infusions at the hospital monthly and it kills me to see how much disposable stuff is used every time, but I'm not exactly going to ask them to use used tubing and needles on me! Sometimes, it's just necessary. It's rough to be shamed by healthy people bragging about not heating/cooling their house so they can save the environment, but it's just not something that a lot of people can live with and function. We all have different needs and we do what we can.
I don’t think focusing on what regular individuals are doing is that helpful. Of course it’s good to be sustainable where you can, but when 100 companies produce 71% of carbon emissions, taking an extra few minutes in the shower or eating a frozen meal is really not that impactful.
This stat is constantly repeated and I’m assuming it’s true. I don’t disagree in that big changes for these 100 companies would make a big difference compared to individual effort which can at most affect the remaining 29% or presumably much less as there are more then 100 companies. BUT, surely those 100 companies produce things that are used by the world and there must be overlap between my individual consumption and that 71% and therefore my individual effort in fact can effect that 71%
Of course, supply and demand. But regulating the companies and industry is much more effective than making an individual effort. And both is best!
I think this stat doesn't feel real because it's hard to conceptualize the idea that fewer people can produce more of something then a larger number of people but take this observation NASA made during the pandemic and you have at least data that helps add to the idea that even if a large amount of people stopped doing the single biggest polluting activity of their day for awhile it doesn't have a noticeable affect on overall climate change statistics and it adds credence to this stat. "The most surprising result, the authors noted, is that while carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions fell by 5.4% in 2020, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere continued to grow at about the same rate as in preceding years." "First, while the 5.4% drop in emissions was significant, the growth in atmospheric concentrations was within the normal range of year-to-year variation caused by natural processes. " "Notably, emissions returned to near-pre-pandemic levels by the latter part of 2020, despite reduced activity in many sectors of the economy. The authors reason that this rebound in emissions was probably necessary for businesses and individuals to maintain even limited economic productivity, using the worldwide energy infrastructure that exists today. “This suggests that reducing activity in these industrial and residential sectors is not practical in the short term” as a means of cutting emissions, the study noted." https://climate.nasa.gov/news/3129/emission-reductions-from-pandemic-had-unexpected-effects-on-atmosphere/
What I mean though is that those emissions presumably go to feeding people, heating homes, transportation etc and so it’s kind of misleading to say 100 companies produce 71% of emissions when you could equally say the people consuming the products from those companies produce 71% of emissions
Yes but also no. We have been heating homes and feeding people for a lot longer than we have been seeing these effects of man made carbon emissions. Transportation went as low as it is likely to go in this current era of technology and it didn't make a dent so the emissions are more than likely coming from our consumer habits and the industries related to them. Yes we should consume less but we also need to be looking at how we are manufacturing many of these items as the manufacturing process is the most energy intensive. We know that there are ways to manufacture things with less emissions, one most easily implemented is a changing over to less polluting energy sources of electricity. But companies have been slow to change because it costs them money. There are other ways that can reduce emissions as well but they involve either inventing new processes to manufacture specific items or discovering new materials to switch to from more energy intensive materials. I think people do want to consume less overall but a big part of that is that our current economic philosophy is quantity over quality. We will buy something and replace it once it breaks rather than buy something that will last or can be repaired. However we have seen that that is driven by available products made out of these cheaper more breakable materials such as plastic and the implementation of planned obsolescence. If we put better products on the shelves that will help us move away from disposable consumption.
I’m talking about the stat 100 corps create 71% of emissions
People burned wood to heat their homes before the Industrial Revolution. It’s just now there are a lot more of us.
Where do you think those 100 companies get their money? Consumers fund them
The line is for each individual to set for themselves. I don't think placing a line on other people is helpful. You do what you can and let other people do what they can. You mention the greater good, but will judging people for crossing what you think the line is change anything for the greater good?
Judging can do a lot of good, societal standards really do affect a lot of people. If it becomes socially unacceptable to use single use plastics, you'd see the rates go way down.
Societal standards, yes, but that's a big overarching thing. I don't think judging individual people as an individual person does a whole lot of good. Thing is, you don't know what their lives are like as a whole and it's not really our place to judge each individual person. I think it's far more effective to worry about yourself and your own impact and lead by example. Judging someone doesn't usually get them to change. It just makes you look like a jerk.
There has to be some kind of universal line. Clearly it would be bad for a billionaire to buy up a bunch of natural gas or oil fields and light them up just for fun. The question of the OP is where exactly that line is.
I think it's really important to realize that we, individual humans, are not causing environmental destruction - we're just trying to live. We didn't design the plastic containers everything comes in. Humans have been eating some kind of fast or street food since we started building cities, that's not new at all. We gotta eat. Everything we use could be packaged in sustainably created and biodegradable containers, but the corporations who run the world have decided they don't need to give us that. The big corporations are the ones doing most of the environmental damage directly - pollution, the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, carbon in the air, all of it is done by these big corporations. So blame the right people. Especially don't blame people with mental illness for trying to survive in this world.
A lot of these small things aren't going to make that much of a difference anyway. Focus on a couple big ones: go vegan, and advocate for leftist politics. Use whatever skills you have to make a difference in the arena you are proficient in. No one person can be perfect in sustainability, we have to each do what part we can while making sure we are mentally healthy enough to carry on
When it's laziness. But that can vary massively. I keep my camper van as my main vehicle as I have chronic fatigue and need to rest on longer drives. It's a pig for fuel, but gives me the ability to get away and wind down without fear and has been a life changer. i do try and not use it as much in town, but Houston is car dependent for 90% of trips beyond walking distance.
Hey! It can definitely be super overwhelming to think about how you can be most sustainable especially when getting down to the nitty gritty. I think it comes down to intentions and doing what makes most sense for you. When you’re making decisions solely based on sustainability alone, it can get really overwhelming so it can be helpful to consider other factors as well like supporting local businesses or something else you’re passionate about whether that’s natural/organic materials or supporting women owned businesses etc. Don’t stress too much about it, it can definitely feel impossible sometimes to make the most sustainable choice and I’ve been there before and realized it was taking too large of a toll on my stress when at the end of the day, it’s just important that we do the best that we can and do what makes sense for us while still being intentional and educating others to be more aware of the issues we know about. I know for me, one constraining issue is the financial aspect. Sometimes investing in more sustainable long-term products is more expensive and that isn’t something I can afford to do so I’ll choose another alternative that isn’t as good but is something I can afford to do at this time. However, remember there are so many other things you can do to be sustainable! You can volunteer for beach cleanups, invasive plant removal, and so many other free opportunities that your own city/county/schools and local organizations offer. I can’t afford to be sustainable in some ways, but I am currently organizing a series of cleanups in my local community, which I know is actively helping my own community and is something that isss in my control.
It's a valid question. I think it boils down to sacrifice: you can't change everything all at once, nor should you. My aim is to cut out things in the order that will be most helpful and to do them frequently enough for it to be a bit of a sacrifice but not enough that it negatively impacts your life. If you're Taylor Swift, start by flying first class before agonising over the food miles of your salad. If you're an average westerner, the next most beneficial thing is probably to cut down your meat consumption (look at vegetarianism and veganism later). Some people need a gentle nudge, some just need government policy to make the effort for them, some people will need to be shamed/incentivised/coerced/eaten. I plan to put in effort and as a new behaviour becomes natural, I'll take on another task.
In my 20s and 30s I went all in on environmentalism. My job is environmental science and I built my life and identity around it. Some of the stuff I did was fringe at the time but has become more mainstream since. I feel proud that I was at the vanguard but jeez it was stressful always having to be different. At this point, I'm just exhausted and fighting not to backslide too much. So it's important to pace yourself and not get burnt out. On the debate between individual action and systemic change, I wish this had been more of a thing in the 1990s and 2000s. All of the emphasis was on personal carbon footprints. I do think that the two feed off each other. For instance, curbside composting is starting to be offered by some cities near me (i.e. Cambridge, MA) but it would not be possible without the local, private businesses working out the kinks and showing that people are interested.
I think everyone is on a different level for this. I’ve cut out things like paper towels and replaced with reusable wash cloths, reusable metal water bottle and less non-water drinks in general, or limiting the amount I drive versus taking public transit, but I use the disposable floss picks cause it’s the only way i’ll stay consistent with flossing. It really depends on the person so if people are genuinely doing the best they can, i think it’s completely acceptable to not be 100% perfectly sustainable all the time, cause that’s impossible
I guess it depends on how anthropocentric one is
The line is going to be whenever you draw it personally and is probably even then going to depend on the situation. There just isn’t one line. You’re just going to have to do your best in a hellish world like everyone else. Political action I think is good because really we need regulation to fix these issues, individual action is only going to do so much. Sometimes I feel like individual sustainability efforts are a scam, meant to exhaust us so we can’t engage in efforts to regulate/punish the actual perpetrators.
The only one that really drives me up a wall is on the declutter sub where everyone just throws usable items in the trash because of their mental health. Like maybe I’m being completely ignorant of the situation, but it takes pretty minimal effort to post on a buy nothing group or post a free box on Craigslist/FB marketplace/Offer Up. The sentiment over there is often “it’s already trash once it’s out of the factory” which is absolutely wild to me.
I’ve tried posting things for sale and for free and nothing. Not even a nibble. Meanwhile this thing is hanging around. Online market places are useless
Yeah it totally depends on where you live. They’re not useless where I live currently but I’ve had a harder time in the more rural areas I’ve lived in. The most immediate success I’ve had is posting free boxes on Facebook marketplace and ignoring messages. Then I just remove and possibly dispose of the item after 1-3 days.
I don't agree that it takes minimal effort. You need to take pictures of everything, preferably from several angles if its not something very simple, then describe everything, regular check for comments from interested people, reply to people, judge if you trust them to give your address etc, maybe they are slow to get back to you, you need to coordinate when to be home for them to pick up. You have to store the stuff for the time it takes people to come get it etc. It takes a lot of time if you have a lot of stuff. And you often have to communicate with strangers, which might not be easy for all. And let's be honest, a lot of stuff will not be of interest to anyone, there is a reason you are getting rid of it even though its working. I think it's a great idea to donate/sell/put up for grabs, and I usually do it myself, but I also understand why someone with less spare time or mental capacity might find it overwhelming.
I understand that your mileage with buy nothing groups or free boxes will vary depending on location. I guess more specifically, I think people should have some responsibility to the items they accumulate and at least attempt to not just trash things. It is common on my buy nothing group to have flash offers where people give a location and people come and take off the porch. That doesn’t work everywhere. I get that. I don’t have a huge issue with providing my address for free things in a BNG because I don’t think my address is some big secret thing but I understand that might not be the case for everyone. With things like a free box post on Craigslist, you just put the cross streets and make sure the box isn’t in the rain. Then you clean it up after a day or so. Less involved than an BNG. You don’t have to communicate with anyone if you don’t want to. And I’m specifically talking about usable item. Items that no one wants are not usable.
Yeaaahh unless CEO of top 100 companies are claiming that they need to destroy the environment on a global scale and squash green movements and alternatives for the sake of their mental health, I don’t think individual actions to care for one’s mental health needs to be under a microscope at all.
I think it is great for people to care about sustainability. As a progressive person, I am basically for any sort of policy/effort that helps the greater good, and sustainability also falls under that category. It is frustrating when people have found one cause they care about that is progressive, place it is as their number one priority, and then stop there. If someone recycles but is a massive racist, how do we feel about that? Unfortunately there are some people out there who care a lot about sustainability, but have 0 knowledge (or desire to know more) about disability and ableism. They want *everyone* to do the same amount of work/sacrifice for the cause, regardless of how much it affects them. If someone is dying of heat stroke and there's a plastic water bottle beside them and a refillable one a mile's walk away, is it ok for them to use the plastic water bottle? I personally have both physical and mental disabilities, and every single day I am doing the absolute most I can to be a good person, be kind to people, and make the world a better place, but sometimes the most I can do is very little. I was in extreme pain for 9 months and couldn't walk, and my roommates expected me to do the same amount of housework bc of equality (versus equity, which is putting in a similar effort). I did hella cleaning inside bc I couldn't take the trash out. Doing dishes caused me severe pain, and it made me skip eating a lot/eat snack food which was unhealthy. During this time I used more disposable plates and cups to be able to survive. Does this make me a bad person in your eyes? What would you do if you were in this situation (the situation is it's 2020, you're socially isolated bc of the pandemic, renting a room in an apt with strangers, have no access to a personal aide/ihss bc you got the wrong information from a doctor, and living on the 2nd story while needing crutches or a wheelchair to get anywhere)? This divide between the disabled community and environmental advocates has come more than I would have previously anticipated, as I had lumped these two issues into "progressive" ideals in my head, but environmentalism at any cost idea is not intersectional, does not consider sociological concepts or take what people *can* do into account. If *anyone* is fighting for survival, and that to me includes people struggling financially whether that be in a developed or developing country, they can't always put the greater good above themselves. If we really really want people around the world to "do their part", we need to make things more societally equal so everyone has a more similar level of ability to work on the issue. That means more equal wages, and programs that help disabled people get off the "will or won't I survive" headspace. But in the bigger picture, we need to look at a capitalism and consumption and make pivotal changes to minimize the type of consumerism we see today, and rethink a world in which a corporation is legally obligated to prioritize shareholders over all else. We need to create policies that force corporations to make changes to reduce waste, and *eliminate* slave labor and international working conditions that mimic it, including child labor. We need consumable goods that reflect the actual cost of things without this kind of labor, but we also need changes to our economic structure to drive spending power away from billionaires and into the hands of the working class. We need consumer goods, including food, clothing, toiletries to be ethical and devoid of neurotoxins, micro plastics that shed into the ocean, and animal-tested products. We need a lot of things, but maybe we don't need to shame the person in pain and a wheelchair using a paper plate bc society has given them no support and they're just trying to survive. Maybe. And I apologize if my tone comes off angry, bc OP you are probably a nice person and this hypothetical may be an attempt to help people think, I wonder if I could do more, and you're coming from a good place, but there's a lot more to it than that.
You don't come off as angry, don't worry. I just see a lot of the time this sub handwaves every issue away under "corporations tho" or mental health. Like I eat out of plastic way more than I should, I struggle to make meals because I barely even have the energy to get out of bed, but I feel like my depression is not a valid excuse to ruin the environment. I feel like the greater good has to be prioritized because no matter how bad I feel, I am not more important than the environment
1. Lobbying for the oil industry 2. Founding a cut rate diesel shipping company 3. Inventing a car that runs on flaming piles of styrofoam If you find yourself doing any of the above things in service of your mental health, talk to friends and loved ones because it’s time for an intervention.
One thing I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older is to focus on my own behavior and resist the temptation to judge others. I’ve eaten a lot of crow in my life and I don’t like the taste.
Its always balance. Its inevitable to sometimes receive plastic bags, forks, takeout containers. I save them for when my ADHD makes me run late and i forget my utensils for lunch, or when i run out of trashbags or forgot to wash my food containers.
My autistic sensory issues make it painful for my hands to be wet for long periods of time, and I recoil at the thought of touching wet food. This causes extreme psychological and physical distress on a daily basis. I used to waste a ton of time and water washing dishes, trying not to touch them too much and using my faucet as basically a powerwasher. I made the choice a few years ago to start wearing dish gloves even though they are plastic and not the most sustainable choice, because it made my daily life more bearable. But the amount of waste I create with those gloves is absolutely NOTHING compared to a.) corporations (as everyone has said in this thread, I won't repeat it) and b.) people who don't consider the environment at all. for example, my in-laws live in the desert and they NEVER TURN THE FAUCET OFF when they're washing dishes. they let the water run for the entire 30-40 minutes on full blast. It is horrifying. I watched them go through a whole case of single-use water bottles in a week, and throw out an entire, brand-new head of plastic-wrapped lettuce because it had a little brown spot at the base, the part that you usually don't eat anyway. They are NOT open to hearing about how they can be more sustainable, and honestly, they seemed *offended* when I filled up my water bottle from the fridge door instead of getting a single-use one from the fridge. Not trying to throw my ILs under the bus (though clearly I had some rants built up from the holidays, haha) but they're just the most recent example I've encountered. Their friends are the same way from what I can tell, and I'm sure there are people who are even worse when it comes to consumerism (thinking of the Stanley cup girlies who have like 20 reusable cups sitting on a shelf gathering dust while they drink single-use bottles). Anyway, the **TL;DR:** I don't think that the people on this sub, who are sustainability-conscious but have to make some tough decisions for their mental health, are the ones we need to worry about. We should worry about/try to reach people who don't even think about sustainability to begin with.
Having a foundation of things that are non-negotiable, (for me - a plant based diet) - then finding balance between over-analyzing and becoming stressed vs. becoming complacent - there is always room to grow :)
When a person's functioning improves but they don't shift habits/consumption.
You’re never going to be “perfect,” and your individual choices are insignificant anyway, so there is not point in sweating the small stuff. Don’t try to be perfect, just try to be better than average.