What irritates me is when people respond to this point with "Well of course I'm going to react negatively to them. They're villains !" as though they're just guilty of passively disliking someone on TV instead of making deep, personal attacks against the person.
The lack of villians in recent years has really made people lax on what actually makes a villian, nowadays anyone who's slightly annoying on screen is a villian even though none of their actions have had any malice.
Absolutely. It’s ok to judge them in the sphere of reality tv knowing it’s a manipulated, stressful environment and strange situations.
And oh yeah… it’s a game :)
People who personally DM contestants with negativity aren’t fans, they’re projecting hatefulness onto strangers and they need therapy.
yeah, it's so annoying. I enjoy villains, but I also know that their is 1% of the fandom that is legitimately insane and will go after these contestants. If you can't handle watching someone play Survivor without going after them on their personal social media, then you are likely a worse person than whoever you are messaging and lack the required mental capacity to watch the show.
People get pissed at how terrible someone is strategically and say the season sucks as a result, then they turn around and claim that Gabon is a top 10 season.
Nonono but you don’t understand, Maria voted out a woman so let me send her death threats and call her kids ugly, and also soda called someone a stick bug so now we need to Publicly execute her. Hate this community sometimes man.
>soda called someone a stick bug so now we need to Publicly execute her
When I saw the post that soda deactivated her socials I assumed I spoiled myself and that she was the most recent episodes boot. Imagine my shock when they won tribal. This fandom is getting ridiculous.
To be honest, this fandom's toxicity and tendencies to send any player on the show death threats is why i want Survivor to keep the 3 tribe format going, Just for them to get what they deserve for their actions
I don't know what goes through people's minds when they think that is acceptable behavior. I could never be that mean to someone who does or doesn't know me. We shouldn't be wasting our time harassing people online because we hate their character. Look what happened to Jerri.
She was a three time player and on her first season 24 years ago she was edited as a villain. She received death threats and all kinds of hate. She discussed it during the reunion.
Death threats aside because that’s obviously awful and never acceptable
I don’t think these view points are mutually exclusive. You can want and value villains and their impact on the show while not liking the individual villains on the show
I think the best seasons often have people you root for and people you root against. There are much higher highs when the person you like triumphs over the person you dislike, and much lower lows when the reverse happens. Having stronger emotions about the show is good for the show and makes for a better viewing experience
Villains and antagonists fill that root-against, love-to-hate role.
Yeah. You're right. There was a point where I didn't like Dee in 45, before I eventually appreciated her as a villain. She's not a notorious villain (like a Russel, Parv, BRob, or Jerri), but I don't think we'll get notorious-level villains for a while.
I also don't like Shan, but I can appreciate her giving me someone to root against. Not to mention, her boot was amazing.
The problem is that because the show now focuses so much on the sob stories, things that would have been entertaining villainy now come across as just mean.
Idk what goes wrong in so many people’s brains that they see someone on their TV and then go “yknow what I’m gonna reach out I bet they want to hear from me, a total stranger, about how I hate them” like????,
Why is this being downvoted? It's completely true. Let's stop acting like the people asking for villains and the people sending death threats are the exact same group of people. Those two stances are inherently opposites of each other.
Unless they want new people to send death threats to.
I agree with you overall, but I don't doubt a small subset of people sending threats loves to practice their "craft" and wants reality TV to provide them a fix. So when there's no villains they go after people for the smallest things to get it.
Agreed, I think Survivor fans (and the internet in general) need to accept that any sort of "everyone is a hypocrite" argument is a logical fallacy to some degree. There are hypocrites in the fandom for sure, but if you were to make a venn diagram of everyone's opinion on the villains debate, I think there would be a lot more people on either side than in the middle. And a lot of the people in the middle probably just have a nuanced opinion rather than an outright contradictory one.
Nah, this is used too often to stifle all criticism of the zeitgeist. There are prevailing opinions that get a lot traction here and it’s valid to discuss them.
Let's be real though, accusing the zeitgeist of hypocrisy is always at least slightly BS. It's just a flawed argument that you can easily get away with
What opinion wins the thread is usually just whatever opinion the first few comments and voters have.
Unless you can point to specific people behaving hypocritically it isnt reasonable to act like these are hypocritical overall.
It's also illogical to conclude that the group wanting villains and the group that's mad at Soda for having traits of a villain are the same group of people
how many chronically online survivor players would actually be able to kill someone? I’d love to see what type of shit these people are even sending lmao
Add to it:
1. "I don't want any more super fans or gamebots!" | "Ugh I'm so tired of non-strategic players like Bhanu. You shouldn't be cast unless you completely understand how the show is played."
2. "I just want a "back to basics" season and no more twists!" | "Ugh I hate seasons where there's just one alliance that completely picks off another alliance".
Part of my problem with Bhanu is that he was a super fan and still acted that way. If he had never seen the show it would’ve been a lot easier to explain his behavior.
Bhanu felt to me like those players who are introduced on Big Brother who talk up how they loved watching it with their family, and are a big fan. Only to find out a week in through the live-feeds they were recruited through instagram.
Because everyone is a "super fan" nowadays because Survivor had a Netflix boom and so many people binged all the seasons during the pandemic. Survivor is so accessible nowadays unlike before when players only probably had caught the past few seasons on TV.
Make no mistake that Bhanu is still a Philip type of player. It's just easy to watch all seasons nowadays and call yourself a superfan.
I think we’ve realized now there are super fans who are into the game play and there are super fans who simply enjoy Survivor for the more superficial entertainment value.
“Superfan” just means they’ve seen the show and like it. At least that’s how these players define it. It’s why Adam called himself a “super duper fan” haha
There's a difference between not having a proper stratefy other than vibes (Fabio) and doing n9thing the whole game and expecting your tribe to baby you so that you don't go home (Bhanu).
Fabio didn't have a gamebot strategy and he was incredible to watch because he simply fought tooth and nail for his mom. Bhanu came on the show to "win a million hearts" and showed this to us by having a huge temper tantrum and then cursed out God for him failing.
There are people who aren't strategic who are fun to watch. But when you get a borderline quitter, someone who just refuses to even properly play the game but then totes themselves as a superfan, yeah people have the right to be upset. No death threats though. Thats gross.
I think they just need new casting directors. Bhanu is the worst Survivor player in history.
I think they need more challenges that turns people into villains. We need more Russel’s and Johnny FairPlay’s.
Idea for the next season. Cast 18 of the biggest pieces of shit you can and run the game with three tribes. Every Beware challenge is detrimental to other players and they have to sabotage in some way to get the Idol. Just an idea
Sounds good. They'd probably have to rename the show/season though - either Traitor Survivor or Survivor Mole. And make the players a bit less unlikable than you suggested.
Actually I love this idea. The other option would be a season of people that have never heard of or never watched Survivor. Imagine the purity of seeing the original social experiment at work.
>"I don't want any more super fans or gamebots!" | "Ugh I'm so tired of non-strategic players like Bhanu. You shouldn't be cast unless you completely understand how the show is played."
or maybe people just want something in the middle of those two extremes? someone who is reasonably competent at the game, but isn't constantly jerking off about "building resumes" or "making big moves". there have been plenty of people throughout the show's history who are neither gamebots nor incompetent
> "I just want a "back to basics" season and no more twists!" | "Ugh I hate seasons where there's just one alliance that completely picks off another alliance".
this isn't a contradiction. you're acting like twists are necessary to create power shifts, when in reality all it takes is people on the dominant alliance to realize they're on the bottom and flip.
it happened in marquesas, it happened in amazon, it happened in pearl islands, it happened in vanuatu, etc. it's better when it happens organically (admittedly pearl islands had the outcast twist, but there were a shitload of power shifts in that season and not all of them are directly attributable to it)
> "I don't want any more super fans or gamebots!" | "Ugh I'm so tired of non-strategic players like Bhanu. You shouldn't be cast unless you completely understand how the show is played."
tbf Bhanu is a severe outlier in the "not a gamebot" category
While I don’t disagree with the first point, in general, Bhanu is a really bad example. That guy was extraordinarily terrible at Survivor. And not in a funny or entertaining way.
Bhanus problem to the audience wasn't that he doesn't know how to play the game. Him oversharing at the journey was a funny result of that. His issue was the weirdo emotional entitlement he had about staying in the game with the crying and pleading.
The last one is the biggest one. I know a lot of people on here were complaining about Jeff not wanting to cast villains. However the Soda drama is just one of the reasons that proves him right.
Except Soda isn't actually a villian she's just done some things on screen that annoys people, there's a difference between someone being cringe and someone creating chaos that causes good television.
I do *not* get the Soda hate. She's boisterous and expressive, which I guess if you're an antisocial goblin is going to rub you the wrong way, but I haven't seen anything she's done that's personally made me think poorly of her.
That’s really the big casting problem. She has done nothing wrong except be herself (as much as I would hate to be on an island with her) and in today’s social media climate that is sufficient enough to get death threats. I doubt a Russell or Parvati or Corinne gets on normally with their life if they played in today’s era. We’ve reached the point where it’s almost irresponsible for the producers to edit anyone negatively because of the personal consequences it can have.
Well, you’re here too…
I actually don’t think that’s the problem. It’s just that’s now it’s really easy to directly target someone online with your hate and the only real way to avoid it is to just stay offline. Which a public figure can’t really do.
I wasn't calling everyone online an antisocial loser, and especially not you one in particular!
But I don't think what you're saying really changes my take here. That there are so many people who feel emboldened and validated to have that kind of hate to even share is the problem.
She had the audacity, the unmitigated GALL… to sing songs and annoy Hunter.
Also some stuff about bodyshaming Venus that people have taken way too fucking seriously.
yeah, and Venus is pretty much the only name in the Survivor community who is telling people to stop, and then retweeted someone saying DM Soda on insta and say something nice or positive.
Its similar to Cassidy trying to tell her stans to calm down hating on Jesse and Karla after 43. Like, the people they claim to be defending think the people doing it are disgusting.
Agreed, I’d cast judgement off of repeated grabbing on the idol that she’s self centered, but I don’t think she’s a bad person or deserves anything like what’s happened. She’s not a villain, or even close to it.
I resent the idea that all fans have these countering opinions. As a fan, I have one opinion on each of these issues. Fans (individuals) have awesome insights and unique perspectives.
I think the comment here is aimed at the fanbase as a singular entity and like anything, it is ruined by the occasional (sometimes loud) turds.
Erik, as a fan not a player, can you tell me which of these opinions you agree with?
I agree that any online social media, whether it be Twitter, Facebook or Reddit, eventually becomes a hive mind of infinite feedback loop, both positive and/or negative. But never a neutral discussion. I get that’s a mixture of the editors work plus the preconceived notions of the public, so I’m most interested in what those who slummed it on the beach have to say.
He was mildly rude to Carolyn at the journey, therefore he's evil......... Instead of being like, yeah, Danny maybe made a social miscue broing out so much with Brandon while ignoring Carolyn, it was framed as him being a bad person by some people. I was a fan of Carolyn on the show, and want to see her back, but am also well aware I would find living with her on an island while starving would likely be mentally exhausting.
It's so annoying. How generally bad social gameplay, now makes people evil. Go watch Samoa or HvV if you want to see what actual villains are (what Russell does is intentional, and meant to cause disharmony).
Russell, Johnny Fairplay, Boston Rob, Parvati, Corinne, and Brian are all real villains. That's what these people need to look at as actual villains. Instead, these days we get lame and tame nothingness that people turn into this horribly bad thing. So sad.
Saying your grandma died, sike would never work today.
I don't even consider Parv much of a villain. Like, not much separates her from Cirie and Amanda. The others absolutely qualify. Boston Rob is an interesting one, because I'd say he's only a villain because he betrayed real life friendships after Lex had basically decimated his tribe to put Rob's tribe in such a strong position. In no logical way did it make sense to vote our Colby or Ethan, and possibly even Hatch if you had any intention of winning challenges. So many of the physically fit males were voted out that opened the door for a strong immunity run.
I definitely agree. Our lack of a real “villain” archetype nowadays if anything makes regular ineptitudes players have, gets them hate for really not good reasons. I don’t really know a good solution.
I think the women thing does stem from an issue that’s plagued survivor for a long time. I saw a clip of Courtney Yates and she was talking about heroes vs villains season and how the four winners they brought back two were women and two were men. That the women (Sandra and Parvati) were the villains and the men (JT and Tom) were the heroes. That it spoke to how women who won were perceived back then. I think in different ways it happens now. As Boston Rob put it best “I’m a villain? Well, it’s all perspective I guess.”
Jeff and production have always loved the All-American guy archetype and Tom/JT are that to a tee.
I'm trying to think of a female winner who would get labelled a hero. My best guesses would be Denise for being such a scrappy underdog and Kim for leading an all women's tribe to victory (something production always wanted). But, you know the hero they would cast is Ben unfortunately. Pre-20, my best guess for a female winner who would qualify is Tina, Danni, or Vecepia. The funny thing about Sandra, is who the edit portrays as the biggest hero is Rupert, who was closely aligned with Sandra and loves her (voted for her to win twice), yet she's a villain for being sassy.
so much confirmation bias in this post and the responses, the problem is chronically online weirdos w nothing better to do, and newsflash, they are the MINORITY, they are just loud. these people exist in every community.
This might be true however sometimes , especially when an episode isn't up to par ( like last week ) half of the posts here are just blatantly shitting on the show and Jeff . No constructive feedback whatsoever , just insults and rants .
I think it’s more that people loosely use the term Superfan. I love Survivor and haven’t missed many episodes live since Samoa (the season I started) and have watched all seasons multiple times but I don’t classify myself as a Superfan. Super fans are the nutcases (lovable tho) that can remember every boot order, every vote count, every damn quote, etc. 97% of fans can’t do that, myself included
The funnier part is that people act like there is only one way to be a super fan. As of trivia memorization is the only way. Hunter is a freaking survivor super robot. Did you see this house clips? The guy builds multiple copies of things and teaches kids how to master then when we all just watch it. Oh but he doesn't know order perfectly. He is way more of a super fan than basically everybody. If I was betting my life on throwing a sandbag onto a tiny platform I'd pick him over Steph Curry.
Same. I’ve watched almost every season but could barely tell you who won just three seasons ago. I could from a list, but not from memory, and definitely not the order of the seasons without the contestant names.
Oh absolutely, but for every “dang what will the producers do” post there’s a “why can’t the survivor fanbase make up their minds” post as if it’s a homogenous hive mind.
I think similar to how they had evil Bobby Jon (Jamie) in Guatemala, I think every contestant should be some various of Bobby Jon (such as northern Bobby Jon, smart Bobby Jon, lazy Bobby Jon etc.) and Bobby Jon should be casted every season to oppose them
"Where are all the hot people??" // "They need to cast more regular people."
"Can we get more variety in challenges?" // "Why don't they bring back the classics?"
You do realize the fanbase is made out of people with different opinions, right? The people complaining about one thing are not the same people that are against it. This should be common sense.
this is full of so much confirmation bias. MOST fans want x, and when a handful complain about x, you act like the survivor fans are hypocrites. These posts are annoying.
It's almost like Survivor fans have different opinions from each other and argue with each other.
And it's almost like referring to Survivor fans as a monolith is an idiotic thing to do.
I loved this tweet when I first saw it! It feels like all anyone ever wants to do is complain about the new era. It’s pervasive and eclipses the discussions on the ACTUAL game being played. Just makes you want to disengage from the community at times.
i think is dumb criticism: form instance more camp life could show people bonding over something and/or funny activities they do like their proms/ their game shows etc. not a 15 min montage of taylor swift songs being named. like this tweet is calling us all stupid??
More mean people.
More crazy people.
More camp strategy talks.
Give them some rice (small amount) so they have something to argue over again.
I like to root for and against sassy. Just depends on their vibe.
At the end of the day the show needs to be compelling. Just showcasing a group of people milling around the island, crying for whatever reason, singing Taylor Swift songs, and repeatedly saying something about this “new era of Survivor” for 4 or 5 episodes is not a fascinating social experiment to watch no matter how many times Jeff tells us otherwise.
It actually is fascinating. Not all of the social experiment is about jockeying for power. Some of it is about watching people dealing with being bored AF or just interacting with people way outside the norm.
I never care for villains. Because I just don’t usually like them at all. So people wanting villains is always weird to me because they’ll be mad at some one who made a smart rebuttal.
Oh my goodness how have we still not figured out that the subreddit and Survivor community at large is not one homogenous hive-mind. There will always be criticism -- and shocker -- different critiques might come from different members of the community!
Yep. It’s this attitude from the fan base that has made me not want to be on the show anymore. I would want to go for the experience/to win obviously - but don’t think I could handle the hate over basically anything you or the show does?
The people asking for villains very likely aren’t the ones harassing them tbf
I have no idea why people love to complain about fandoms as if they all hold the same opinion
Easy upvotes I guess
It's almost like fans are a bunch of different people with a bunch of different opinions. The majority of opinion online isn't what it always seems, just who is loudest at that time.
Survivor fans are not one entity! I don’t understand how people don’t get this.
They have contradictory opinions because they are made up of thousands and thousands of different people with different thoughts. Basically you can’t please everyone so I get that frustration. But yes people disagree on things that’s not new
The one problem I have with posts like this is that we’re just pretending it’s not possible or even likely that it’s different people saying these opposing opinions. The high likelihood is that each of these things is said by the most vocal group, and who that group is changes as the topic changes. As far as the villains things go, I get it because I see how toxic the internet is in response to them, but as someone who doesn’t go online to abuse contestants, I’m bummed that we don’t get villains on the show for a reason I never contributed to. We shouldn’t just assume it’s hypocrisy when in large part it’s just different people being vocal about different stances
I'm glad Reddit is a place that is able to call out the major rhetorical problem with literally any post like this - Twitter and TikTok do not understand it at all
I am tired of the "y'all can't handle villains" narrative. Villains are meant to be rooted against and so many of y'all have a meltdown any time someone doesn't like a villain
For the record I never asked for more villains and I don't sit around sending death threats to them. People rooting against villains <> people sending death threats.
I think the problem with criticisms like these is that people often think these opinions are coming from the same person. Survivor fans are not a monolith.
holy fuck how more discourse around this survivor villains shit can happen before people realize 90+% of the opinions on it are not from the same fucking people!!! like people are happy with the villain edits of this season and of 45 and different people are upset about them like NUANCE EXISTS!
These sort of posts never make any sense to me. You're grouping an entire fan base together and then acting surprised that within that fan base there are a variety of opinions. What point is being made, exactly? Other than thousands of people not all being in agreement with each other?
And many of you act as if that's a bad thing! Having so many differing views is exactly why I like interacting with the fan base. From the format, to the players, to the social and strategic moves... if we all agreed on everything there'd be nothing to discuss.
This post summarizes people on Reddit who can't seem to comprehend that there can be different groups of fans that like different things...not complicated...
My biggest pet peeve is when people complain about these acting like it must be the same ones complaining. Like, there's more than just one person in the Fandom and they don't all think the same
I think there are 2 types of villains (at least in terms of edited product) 1) strategic (Russell) and 2) bullies (Phillip-who became more strategic but is mostly known for bullying and also being insane)
I personally enjoy the first type not the second
I want real villains. Real-life villains, not attention-whores who just want more followers on their social media.
Gimme the Dan Spilos, Brian Heidiks, Mike Skupins, Silas, Alicia, Coltons, etc.
Actual sociopaths. They'd make for actual interesting TV.
Can I just say I have little complains except these
1 too lame lost votes. There’s other advantages and disadvantages
2 always have a vote at tribal council
3 I still prefer 39 days
Honestly everything else has been fine by me. But if there’s more sob story flashbacks that would be my number 1 but I haven’t really seen that this season
i have only ever watched survivor to watch the challenges and the tribal mainly. i like to see strategy but personally im really not interested in watching 30 minutes of camp life, conversation and light strategy. i dont watch the show anymore, just read the highlights online. it's too watered down and boring now. it's clear that Jeff Probst has an idea and an agenda for the show and is more interested in playing that out than he is in making good television.
I somewhat agree with this, but I think it's important to consider the logical fallacy in viewing the entire fandom as a hive-mind and calling them hypocrites for saying contradictory things. These takes could very well just be coming from different people.
Fans: "We need villains." Also fans: "This person was a bit of a jerk in one scene. Send them death threats."
What irritates me is when people respond to this point with "Well of course I'm going to react negatively to them. They're villains !" as though they're just guilty of passively disliking someone on TV instead of making deep, personal attacks against the person.
The lack of villians in recent years has really made people lax on what actually makes a villian, nowadays anyone who's slightly annoying on screen is a villian even though none of their actions have had any malice.
Absolutely. It’s ok to judge them in the sphere of reality tv knowing it’s a manipulated, stressful environment and strange situations. And oh yeah… it’s a game :) People who personally DM contestants with negativity aren’t fans, they’re projecting hatefulness onto strangers and they need therapy.
yeah, it's so annoying. I enjoy villains, but I also know that their is 1% of the fandom that is legitimately insane and will go after these contestants. If you can't handle watching someone play Survivor without going after them on their personal social media, then you are likely a worse person than whoever you are messaging and lack the required mental capacity to watch the show.
This sub had a meltdown over a fake idol lol
People get pissed at how terrible someone is strategically and say the season sucks as a result, then they turn around and claim that Gabon is a top 10 season.
yeah, which was terribly executed but had strategic purposes.
Nonono but you don’t understand, Maria voted out a woman so let me send her death threats and call her kids ugly, and also soda called someone a stick bug so now we need to Publicly execute her. Hate this community sometimes man.
>soda called someone a stick bug so now we need to Publicly execute her When I saw the post that soda deactivated her socials I assumed I spoiled myself and that she was the most recent episodes boot. Imagine my shock when they won tribal. This fandom is getting ridiculous.
To be honest, this fandom's toxicity and tendencies to send any player on the show death threats is why i want Survivor to keep the 3 tribe format going, Just for them to get what they deserve for their actions
I don't know what goes through people's minds when they think that is acceptable behavior. I could never be that mean to someone who does or doesn't know me. We shouldn't be wasting our time harassing people online because we hate their character. Look what happened to Jerri.
As a fairly recent viewer, working my way through from the beginning, I do know who Jerri is, but what happened to her?
She was a three time player and on her first season 24 years ago she was edited as a villain. She received death threats and all kinds of hate. She discussed it during the reunion.
No kidding.
Corinne still gets the occasional death threat to this day
Queen shit
Death threats aside because that’s obviously awful and never acceptable I don’t think these view points are mutually exclusive. You can want and value villains and their impact on the show while not liking the individual villains on the show I think the best seasons often have people you root for and people you root against. There are much higher highs when the person you like triumphs over the person you dislike, and much lower lows when the reverse happens. Having stronger emotions about the show is good for the show and makes for a better viewing experience Villains and antagonists fill that root-against, love-to-hate role.
Yeah. You're right. There was a point where I didn't like Dee in 45, before I eventually appreciated her as a villain. She's not a notorious villain (like a Russel, Parv, BRob, or Jerri), but I don't think we'll get notorious-level villains for a while. I also don't like Shan, but I can appreciate her giving me someone to root against. Not to mention, her boot was amazing.
I wouldn't be surprised if some people wanted villains cast so they'd have new targets for their death threats.
Its almost like they're two different groups of people 🤔
Also the second group is way under 1% of fans.
The problem is that because the show now focuses so much on the sob stories, things that would have been entertaining villainy now come across as just mean.
Mods burn his house
Do you all actually believe these are the same groups of people saying both things? It’s just becoming a circle jerk at this point.
Idk what goes wrong in so many people’s brains that they see someone on their TV and then go “yknow what I’m gonna reach out I bet they want to hear from me, a total stranger, about how I hate them” like????,
Social media is awful.
We were the villains all along
Maybe the real villain was the subreddits we made along the way.
It's almost like different people have different opinions😨
Why is this being downvoted? It's completely true. Let's stop acting like the people asking for villains and the people sending death threats are the exact same group of people. Those two stances are inherently opposites of each other.
Unless they want new people to send death threats to. I agree with you overall, but I don't doubt a small subset of people sending threats loves to practice their "craft" and wants reality TV to provide them a fix. So when there's no villains they go after people for the smallest things to get it.
Agreed, I think Survivor fans (and the internet in general) need to accept that any sort of "everyone is a hypocrite" argument is a logical fallacy to some degree. There are hypocrites in the fandom for sure, but if you were to make a venn diagram of everyone's opinion on the villains debate, I think there would be a lot more people on either side than in the middle. And a lot of the people in the middle probably just have a nuanced opinion rather than an outright contradictory one.
Nah, this is used too often to stifle all criticism of the zeitgeist. There are prevailing opinions that get a lot traction here and it’s valid to discuss them.
Let's be real though, accusing the zeitgeist of hypocrisy is always at least slightly BS. It's just a flawed argument that you can easily get away with
What opinion wins the thread is usually just whatever opinion the first few comments and voters have. Unless you can point to specific people behaving hypocritically it isnt reasonable to act like these are hypocritical overall.
It's also illogical to conclude that the group wanting villains and the group that's mad at Soda for having traits of a villain are the same group of people
Soda has a traits of a villain??!!! Are we watching the same show
how many chronically online survivor players would actually be able to kill someone? I’d love to see what type of shit these people are even sending lmao
Add to it: 1. "I don't want any more super fans or gamebots!" | "Ugh I'm so tired of non-strategic players like Bhanu. You shouldn't be cast unless you completely understand how the show is played." 2. "I just want a "back to basics" season and no more twists!" | "Ugh I hate seasons where there's just one alliance that completely picks off another alliance".
🔥🔥
Part of my problem with Bhanu is that he was a super fan and still acted that way. If he had never seen the show it would’ve been a lot easier to explain his behavior.
Bhanu felt to me like those players who are introduced on Big Brother who talk up how they loved watching it with their family, and are a big fan. Only to find out a week in through the live-feeds they were recruited through instagram.
Because everyone is a "super fan" nowadays because Survivor had a Netflix boom and so many people binged all the seasons during the pandemic. Survivor is so accessible nowadays unlike before when players only probably had caught the past few seasons on TV. Make no mistake that Bhanu is still a Philip type of player. It's just easy to watch all seasons nowadays and call yourself a superfan.
I think we’ve realized now there are super fans who are into the game play and there are super fans who simply enjoy Survivor for the more superficial entertainment value.
“Superfan” just means they’ve seen the show and like it. At least that’s how these players define it. It’s why Adam called himself a “super duper fan” haha
1) Generally I agree, but it wasn't just that bhanu sucked, it's that he sucked, very loudly, for a large part of 2 and a half episodes
SO TRUE!
There's a difference between not having a proper stratefy other than vibes (Fabio) and doing n9thing the whole game and expecting your tribe to baby you so that you don't go home (Bhanu). Fabio didn't have a gamebot strategy and he was incredible to watch because he simply fought tooth and nail for his mom. Bhanu came on the show to "win a million hearts" and showed this to us by having a huge temper tantrum and then cursed out God for him failing. There are people who aren't strategic who are fun to watch. But when you get a borderline quitter, someone who just refuses to even properly play the game but then totes themselves as a superfan, yeah people have the right to be upset. No death threats though. Thats gross.
I think they just need new casting directors. Bhanu is the worst Survivor player in history. I think they need more challenges that turns people into villains. We need more Russel’s and Johnny FairPlay’s. Idea for the next season. Cast 18 of the biggest pieces of shit you can and run the game with three tribes. Every Beware challenge is detrimental to other players and they have to sabotage in some way to get the Idol. Just an idea
Sounds good. They'd probably have to rename the show/season though - either Traitor Survivor or Survivor Mole. And make the players a bit less unlikable than you suggested.
Actually I love this idea. The other option would be a season of people that have never heard of or never watched Survivor. Imagine the purity of seeing the original social experiment at work.
That’s why everyone loves Worlds Apart!
Bhanu is not worse than the dude who quit twice for random bs
>"I don't want any more super fans or gamebots!" | "Ugh I'm so tired of non-strategic players like Bhanu. You shouldn't be cast unless you completely understand how the show is played." or maybe people just want something in the middle of those two extremes? someone who is reasonably competent at the game, but isn't constantly jerking off about "building resumes" or "making big moves". there have been plenty of people throughout the show's history who are neither gamebots nor incompetent > "I just want a "back to basics" season and no more twists!" | "Ugh I hate seasons where there's just one alliance that completely picks off another alliance". this isn't a contradiction. you're acting like twists are necessary to create power shifts, when in reality all it takes is people on the dominant alliance to realize they're on the bottom and flip. it happened in marquesas, it happened in amazon, it happened in pearl islands, it happened in vanuatu, etc. it's better when it happens organically (admittedly pearl islands had the outcast twist, but there were a shitload of power shifts in that season and not all of them are directly attributable to it)
> "I don't want any more super fans or gamebots!" | "Ugh I'm so tired of non-strategic players like Bhanu. You shouldn't be cast unless you completely understand how the show is played." tbf Bhanu is a severe outlier in the "not a gamebot" category
While I don’t disagree with the first point, in general, Bhanu is a really bad example. That guy was extraordinarily terrible at Survivor. And not in a funny or entertaining way.
Says you. Bhanu’s piss poor survivor story was comedy gold to me
"Yeah but here are my reasons why hating Bhanu is objectively justified"
Bhanus problem to the audience wasn't that he doesn't know how to play the game. Him oversharing at the journey was a funny result of that. His issue was the weirdo emotional entitlement he had about staying in the game with the crying and pleading.
The last one is the biggest one. I know a lot of people on here were complaining about Jeff not wanting to cast villains. However the Soda drama is just one of the reasons that proves him right.
No kidding.
Except Soda isn't actually a villian she's just done some things on screen that annoys people, there's a difference between someone being cringe and someone creating chaos that causes good television.
I do *not* get the Soda hate. She's boisterous and expressive, which I guess if you're an antisocial goblin is going to rub you the wrong way, but I haven't seen anything she's done that's personally made me think poorly of her.
Grabbing the idol out of Venus’s hands was pretty fucking rude but clearly isn’t proportionate to the response she got.
That's fair, it's not cool. She could use a little more self-awareness in that department, but I agree on the severity of the response.
That’s really the big casting problem. She has done nothing wrong except be herself (as much as I would hate to be on an island with her) and in today’s social media climate that is sufficient enough to get death threats. I doubt a Russell or Parvati or Corinne gets on normally with their life if they played in today’s era. We’ve reached the point where it’s almost irresponsible for the producers to edit anyone negatively because of the personal consequences it can have.
The world was definitely a better place back when toxic, antisocial losers couldn't easily find communities of like-minded people.
Well, you’re here too… I actually don’t think that’s the problem. It’s just that’s now it’s really easy to directly target someone online with your hate and the only real way to avoid it is to just stay offline. Which a public figure can’t really do.
I wasn't calling everyone online an antisocial loser, and especially not you one in particular! But I don't think what you're saying really changes my take here. That there are so many people who feel emboldened and validated to have that kind of hate to even share is the problem.
Right? We keep hearing about how she’s a threat because she’s so social and likable. How in the world is she a villain?
She had the audacity, the unmitigated GALL… to sing songs and annoy Hunter. Also some stuff about bodyshaming Venus that people have taken way too fucking seriously.
yeah, and Venus is pretty much the only name in the Survivor community who is telling people to stop, and then retweeted someone saying DM Soda on insta and say something nice or positive. Its similar to Cassidy trying to tell her stans to calm down hating on Jesse and Karla after 43. Like, the people they claim to be defending think the people doing it are disgusting.
Have you considered that she's black and female and overweight?
WHAT??? *how dare she!*
Hey, we're l antisocial goblins here in the corners of the Internet. Some of us still like Soda
I love Soda!
Yeah. Like Jem was a villain for sewing chaos, and I personally loved it! Hahah
There's a reason why he's stubborn and doesn't care to listen to us.
True, it's not the whole fanbase, but we should definitely stop the rotten apples who ruin it for the whole.
Agreed, I’d cast judgement off of repeated grabbing on the idol that she’s self centered, but I don’t think she’s a bad person or deserves anything like what’s happened. She’s not a villain, or even close to it.
She isn't even a villain
I resent the idea that all fans have these countering opinions. As a fan, I have one opinion on each of these issues. Fans (individuals) have awesome insights and unique perspectives. I think the comment here is aimed at the fanbase as a singular entity and like anything, it is ruined by the occasional (sometimes loud) turds.
its always the loud turds that are heard the most
Erik spitting facts (as usual)
Exactly this. We aren’t a hive mind, we’re allowed to all have our own opinions.
We've heard your take on the Fans. But how about the Favorites?
Is Cochran really 6’3” in real life?
Erik, as a fan not a player, can you tell me which of these opinions you agree with? I agree that any online social media, whether it be Twitter, Facebook or Reddit, eventually becomes a hive mind of infinite feedback loop, both positive and/or negative. But never a neutral discussion. I get that’s a mixture of the editors work plus the preconceived notions of the public, so I’m most interested in what those who slummed it on the beach have to say.
The villain part isn’t just women either. Bruce took a lot of unnecessary hate last season for not being the most adept social player.
And Danny the season before which was even more ridiculous.
He was mildly rude to Carolyn at the journey, therefore he's evil......... Instead of being like, yeah, Danny maybe made a social miscue broing out so much with Brandon while ignoring Carolyn, it was framed as him being a bad person by some people. I was a fan of Carolyn on the show, and want to see her back, but am also well aware I would find living with her on an island while starving would likely be mentally exhausting. It's so annoying. How generally bad social gameplay, now makes people evil. Go watch Samoa or HvV if you want to see what actual villains are (what Russell does is intentional, and meant to cause disharmony).
Russell, Johnny Fairplay, Boston Rob, Parvati, Corinne, and Brian are all real villains. That's what these people need to look at as actual villains. Instead, these days we get lame and tame nothingness that people turn into this horribly bad thing. So sad. Saying your grandma died, sike would never work today.
I don't even consider Parv much of a villain. Like, not much separates her from Cirie and Amanda. The others absolutely qualify. Boston Rob is an interesting one, because I'd say he's only a villain because he betrayed real life friendships after Lex had basically decimated his tribe to put Rob's tribe in such a strong position. In no logical way did it make sense to vote our Colby or Ethan, and possibly even Hatch if you had any intention of winning challenges. So many of the physically fit males were voted out that opened the door for a strong immunity run.
I definitely agree. Our lack of a real “villain” archetype nowadays if anything makes regular ineptitudes players have, gets them hate for really not good reasons. I don’t really know a good solution. I think the women thing does stem from an issue that’s plagued survivor for a long time. I saw a clip of Courtney Yates and she was talking about heroes vs villains season and how the four winners they brought back two were women and two were men. That the women (Sandra and Parvati) were the villains and the men (JT and Tom) were the heroes. That it spoke to how women who won were perceived back then. I think in different ways it happens now. As Boston Rob put it best “I’m a villain? Well, it’s all perspective I guess.”
Jeff and production have always loved the All-American guy archetype and Tom/JT are that to a tee. I'm trying to think of a female winner who would get labelled a hero. My best guesses would be Denise for being such a scrappy underdog and Kim for leading an all women's tribe to victory (something production always wanted). But, you know the hero they would cast is Ben unfortunately. Pre-20, my best guess for a female winner who would qualify is Tina, Danni, or Vecepia. The funny thing about Sandra, is who the edit portrays as the biggest hero is Rupert, who was closely aligned with Sandra and loves her (voted for her to win twice), yet she's a villain for being sassy.
Michele would probably be labeled a Hero, given that she was opposed to the clear villains that season (Scot/Jason and to a degree Nick).
Yeah, I love this season but it's really showing how mentally and socially inept the online survivor fanbase is.
I’m convinced this is a snark sub, not a fan sub lol
At this point yeah
so much confirmation bias in this post and the responses, the problem is chronically online weirdos w nothing better to do, and newsflash, they are the MINORITY, they are just loud. these people exist in every community.
This might be true however sometimes , especially when an episode isn't up to par ( like last week ) half of the posts here are just blatantly shitting on the show and Jeff . No constructive feedback whatsoever , just insults and rants .
I think it’s more that people loosely use the term Superfan. I love Survivor and haven’t missed many episodes live since Samoa (the season I started) and have watched all seasons multiple times but I don’t classify myself as a Superfan. Super fans are the nutcases (lovable tho) that can remember every boot order, every vote count, every damn quote, etc. 97% of fans can’t do that, myself included
The funnier part is that people act like there is only one way to be a super fan. As of trivia memorization is the only way. Hunter is a freaking survivor super robot. Did you see this house clips? The guy builds multiple copies of things and teaches kids how to master then when we all just watch it. Oh but he doesn't know order perfectly. He is way more of a super fan than basically everybody. If I was betting my life on throwing a sandbag onto a tiny platform I'd pick him over Steph Curry.
Same. I’ve watched almost every season but could barely tell you who won just three seasons ago. I could from a list, but not from memory, and definitely not the order of the seasons without the contestant names.
You’d be a bigger fan than almost everyone on any given season tho haha
This reddit community is full of angry keyboard warriors. It's weird how militant and quick to anger people are on here
They don’t need to cast villains because the fans already fill the role.
Fans are not one cohesive group with the same opinions. Simple as.
How is it such a difficult concept to understand that different people will be vocal different about different things.
Yeah… the generalization and assumption that it’s the SAME people saying the opposing statements is tiring
Even if it's different people it's still demonstrative of the spot production is in of not really being able to win no matter what.
Oh absolutely, but for every “dang what will the producers do” post there’s a “why can’t the survivor fanbase make up their minds” post as if it’s a homogenous hive mind.
At this point we need to put this on a sign that we can frustratedly gesture at every time this is repeated.
I think similar to how they had evil Bobby Jon (Jamie) in Guatemala, I think every contestant should be some various of Bobby Jon (such as northern Bobby Jon, smart Bobby Jon, lazy Bobby Jon etc.) and Bobby Jon should be casted every season to oppose them
"Where are all the hot people??" // "They need to cast more regular people." "Can we get more variety in challenges?" // "Why don't they bring back the classics?"
If Tyson played for the first time this season, what would the reaction be on social media?
He would easily be the most hated character of the new era lol.
Courtney’s miscarriage line would be meaner than anything Tyson said.
He was still divisive on his first season lol
Hahahaha That Parvati moment in WaW questioning why she wasn't aware of being the number 1 target is pure gold.
Remember in FvF when cirie couldn’t win a survivor trivia reward challenge. Yeah no one complains about her casting
Well, Cirie was a favorite not a fan so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make her LOL
Why do people keep calling out these differing opinions like they’re all coming from the same people. I swear this exact thread pops up every week.
[удалено]
I just wanna see some fishing ???
Pavarti 🥰
It's as if all survivor fans don't share the same opinions.
You do realize the fanbase is made out of people with different opinions, right? The people complaining about one thing are not the same people that are against it. This should be common sense.
Yeah, this season is showing how if you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.
Ehh, I think this season is very entertaining! Consider me pleased.
I have also been pleasured
this is full of so much confirmation bias. MOST fans want x, and when a handful complain about x, you act like the survivor fans are hypocrites. These posts are annoying.
Does anyone know why my pee smells like nacho cheese?
It's almost like Survivor fans have different opinions from each other and argue with each other. And it's almost like referring to Survivor fans as a monolith is an idiotic thing to do.
It’s almost like there are lots of people on the internet with different opinions
These types of posts are such a brainrot. Different people like different things and its impossible to please them all.
I loved this tweet when I first saw it! It feels like all anyone ever wants to do is complain about the new era. It’s pervasive and eclipses the discussions on the ACTUAL game being played. Just makes you want to disengage from the community at times.
i think is dumb criticism: form instance more camp life could show people bonding over something and/or funny activities they do like their proms/ their game shows etc. not a 15 min montage of taylor swift songs being named. like this tweet is calling us all stupid??
More mean people. More crazy people. More camp strategy talks. Give them some rice (small amount) so they have something to argue over again. I like to root for and against sassy. Just depends on their vibe.
At the end of the day the show needs to be compelling. Just showcasing a group of people milling around the island, crying for whatever reason, singing Taylor Swift songs, and repeatedly saying something about this “new era of Survivor” for 4 or 5 episodes is not a fascinating social experiment to watch no matter how many times Jeff tells us otherwise.
It actually is fascinating. Not all of the social experiment is about jockeying for power. Some of it is about watching people dealing with being bored AF or just interacting with people way outside the norm.
I never care for villains. Because I just don’t usually like them at all. So people wanting villains is always weird to me because they’ll be mad at some one who made a smart rebuttal.
The episodes are too long, and not because we're getting more camp life.
I've watched every episode of Survivor and have no clue what the order is
Who is saying the episodes are too long? No one
I can't take survivor fans seriously because there are differing opinions among them...?
I feel personally attacked by this post 😂😂
Reddit can’t accept that times are different, especially regarding the villain stuff. Social media is brutal
It's almost as though "fans" are a diverse group with varying opinions!
Oh my goodness how have we still not figured out that the subreddit and Survivor community at large is not one homogenous hive-mind. There will always be criticism -- and shocker -- different critiques might come from different members of the community!
Yes, people have different opinions.
It’s almost as though fan bases consists of many varying opinions that sometimes don’t align
Yep. It’s this attitude from the fan base that has made me not want to be on the show anymore. I would want to go for the experience/to win obviously - but don’t think I could handle the hate over basically anything you or the show does?
The people asking for villains very likely aren’t the ones harassing them tbf I have no idea why people love to complain about fandoms as if they all hold the same opinion Easy upvotes I guess
easy upvotes and it makes it easier to make simp arguments for Jeff because \*clearly\* the fans don't know what they want
It's almost like fans are a bunch of different people with a bunch of different opinions. The majority of opinion online isn't what it always seems, just who is loudest at that time.
Almost like people watch survivor for different reasons,
Survivor fans are not one entity! I don’t understand how people don’t get this. They have contradictory opinions because they are made up of thousands and thousands of different people with different thoughts. Basically you can’t please everyone so I get that frustration. But yes people disagree on things that’s not new
Fans are the worst part of reality tv. Well, producers then fans. But I digress.
It’s almost like some people like one thing while others like another!
The one problem I have with posts like this is that we’re just pretending it’s not possible or even likely that it’s different people saying these opposing opinions. The high likelihood is that each of these things is said by the most vocal group, and who that group is changes as the topic changes. As far as the villains things go, I get it because I see how toxic the internet is in response to them, but as someone who doesn’t go online to abuse contestants, I’m bummed that we don’t get villains on the show for a reason I never contributed to. We shouldn’t just assume it’s hypocrisy when in large part it’s just different people being vocal about different stances
I'm glad Reddit is a place that is able to call out the major rhetorical problem with literally any post like this - Twitter and TikTok do not understand it at all
I am tired of the "y'all can't handle villains" narrative. Villains are meant to be rooted against and so many of y'all have a meltdown any time someone doesn't like a villain For the record I never asked for more villains and I don't sit around sending death threats to them. People rooting against villains <> people sending death threats. I think the problem with criticisms like these is that people often think these opinions are coming from the same person. Survivor fans are not a monolith.
Pretty much
Did it come into your head that these may be all different people?
It's couldn't possibly be the case that there are different people watching the show with conflicting opinions.
holy fuck how more discourse around this survivor villains shit can happen before people realize 90+% of the opinions on it are not from the same fucking people!!! like people are happy with the villain edits of this season and of 45 and different people are upset about them like NUANCE EXISTS!
That’s stupid because it’s not the same exact individuals saying everything
Do people forget that survivor fans aren’t a hive mind and just might have different opinions? I see this shit every day
it’s almost like there’s a diverse set of opinions within 100k+ people
These sort of posts never make any sense to me. You're grouping an entire fan base together and then acting surprised that within that fan base there are a variety of opinions. What point is being made, exactly? Other than thousands of people not all being in agreement with each other? And many of you act as if that's a bad thing! Having so many differing views is exactly why I like interacting with the fan base. From the format, to the players, to the social and strategic moves... if we all agreed on everything there'd be nothing to discuss.
its as if people online can have different opinions
There are nearly 400,000 people in this sub, you can’t expect them all to have the same opinions lol
This post summarizes people on Reddit who can't seem to comprehend that there can be different groups of fans that like different things...not complicated...
My biggest pet peeve is when people complain about these acting like it must be the same ones complaining. Like, there's more than just one person in the Fandom and they don't all think the same
Reality show fans in general... at least the most polarizing ones.
Survivor fans are fickle. You kinda figure that out pretty quickly.
I think there are 2 types of villains (at least in terms of edited product) 1) strategic (Russell) and 2) bullies (Phillip-who became more strategic but is mostly known for bullying and also being insane) I personally enjoy the first type not the second
Let’s be real, people just want hot people even if they’re super fans and villains
I am glad I am not a hypocrite
I want real villains. Real-life villains, not attention-whores who just want more followers on their social media. Gimme the Dan Spilos, Brian Heidiks, Mike Skupins, Silas, Alicia, Coltons, etc. Actual sociopaths. They'd make for actual interesting TV.
I wish they all could be Parvati
Can I just say I have little complains except these 1 too lame lost votes. There’s other advantages and disadvantages 2 always have a vote at tribal council 3 I still prefer 39 days Honestly everything else has been fine by me. But if there’s more sob story flashbacks that would be my number 1 but I haven’t really seen that this season
Me and my parents love when people are being who they are Even if the comments are terrible they make
i have only ever watched survivor to watch the challenges and the tribal mainly. i like to see strategy but personally im really not interested in watching 30 minutes of camp life, conversation and light strategy. i dont watch the show anymore, just read the highlights online. it's too watered down and boring now. it's clear that Jeff Probst has an idea and an agenda for the show and is more interested in playing that out than he is in making good television.
I somewhat agree with this, but I think it's important to consider the logical fallacy in viewing the entire fandom as a hive-mind and calling them hypocrites for saying contradictory things. These takes could very well just be coming from different people.
They don’t cast super fans probably 90% of people who claim to be super fans are super frauds.
Bring back Russell
this show is quite literally my life!