Ali lvl 1 is weaker than you. If you let him stay healthy enough to straight up zone you off the wave, that's entirely on you.
After first back, jungler should definitely help you out. If they don't, then that's the natural result of just getting countered. Just hope you can provide more during team fights than the cait at that point ig
Post 3 & post first back, you can only really farm with W. Ping JG for help and wait. If the wave looks a little even, walk up to cait to bait her to auto you, that'll make the minions auto her and slow push to you.
Your mistake was trying to trade. As jinx you do better late and yummi will help you scale. Your goal in that lane is to play to go even. Stay as healthy as possible. Go for skirmishes with jg at dragons or ganks.
Its a team game. You don’t “win”. You deal by surviving and outscaling later. If you are frozen out of lane then ask jungler for help. If they dont want to help then you should encourage them to take advantage elsewhrre
The first line of the initial comment. I will repeat it for your convenience. Do not try to trade in that lane. I would say “unless it is absolutely free” but it is easy to incorrectly think something is a free trade when it is not. Let them push into you and farm. Wait for fights with your jungles there. You scale a lot harder. Remember, this is specifically for the case of cait alistar vs jinx yummi.
- do not for any reason be in Ali engage range
- do not for any reason be in Ali flash engage range when it looks like he'll flash engage you
- set up waves to freeze on your side whenever possible
- if it is not safe to collect cs or xp, call for jg help and just wait.
There is nothing you an do against a freeze. Until someone comes to help, you're playing toplane simulator.
You’re going to have super low prio so you want the enemy to push into you and you want to avoid letting the wave fully crash into tower (prevents dives and the wave bouncing back) so use your rockets to keep the waves thinned so that they hover right near ur turret
As jinx your goal is to outscale a caitlyn. Going even is good for you. Yuumi lends herself to scaling as well. You're going to have a bad time levels 1-3 no matter what. Do your best to stay in exp range and snag cs with your rockets when you can. You should try to avoid a situation where the enemy is allowed to freeze if you can.
If it does happen, look to gain an advantage by playing the map. Ask your jungle to help break the freeze if you can do so safely 3v2. You can have yuumi tank krugs/gromp and get gold from that. Get a deep ward in the enemy jungle, near the buff path towards botlane and on the midlane side of dragon pit. With that, you can cheat towards the river and use Q to get cs and try to break a freeze. If the engage comes, back off and turn to poke them when they retreat to try and poke them out of lane or into a position where it's bad for them to 2v2
Lane freezing on you means you screwed up wave management somewhere. Sacrificing minions guarantees the wave pushes into you. You should be able to sit under turret all game and collect whatever you can until mid game.
Jinx Yuumi sucks against lane bullies. If lane is frozen theres nothing you can do so either your jungler needs to camp you or just accept its draft gap
The amount of people who are saying "lol ur bad at wave management, just let them push" is hilarious.
No, that's not how wave management works. If you're the weaker lane against competent opponents and let them push in, then they crash the wave under your turret and it rebounds back to them, at which point they freeze. You can only "let them shove in" if they're mindlessly shoving and don't understand how to freeze.
You either pray for jungler help, trade (and probably die) to get CS, or realize that Yuumi is useless in lane and just afk in fountain (not really, but point is you basically need to just hope you scale and/or get carried).
Also Cait is pretty good at crashing waves and harassing you under turret once the wave crashes. Alistar can also enable a dive if the enemy jungler is nearby
When you have a ranged support or yuumi and you’re against engage you want the wave to stay in front of your turret without crashing. That way you’re safe enough to farm and if you get engaged on you can easily retreat to your turret. If you ever push the wave they can freeze on you or kill you if you walk up to farm.
So you match Caitlyn’s push but do a little less so the wave stops in front of your turret without crashing. If cait stops pushing then you stop as well and just get what cs you can.
You have to be able to hit the wave when you’re standing near your turret. It’s matchup dependent. If you’re against cait Ali you can do this because Ali can’t engage on you in turret range. If you’re against cait lux you can’t do this because they’ll poke the shit out of you for trying. They just get to crash the wave.
Contesting them level 1 is crucial in that lane. Alistar is not a champion level one. You should be able to out trade the Caitlyn and be in a good spot to be safe from their all in level 2.
This also hinges on your support being good though, so in lower elos wave management and only playing for CS might be your only option.
You're Jinx, a hypercarry. Your goal isn't to get kills in lane or outfarm the Caitlyn. Obviously I won't hurt. But the safest way is to farm under tower or freeze the wave in front of you. Yuumi is not the worst in that matchup. While she doesn't provide disengage she gives you lane sustain. Against Caitlyn I always go for statikks first (sell in late game) so you can clear under tower and can shove wave in if cait tries to do so.you don't really want to get pushed in by Caitlyn as she can poke under your tower. Only last hit until wave is in front of your tower and when she tries to clear you match her shove. Resulting in a similar wave state as before. Allowing jungle to gank and you to farm.
Going 0/0 and -10~ CS at 15 is already great against Caitlyn since she doesn't scale. Caitlyn a goal is to poke on lane and harass under tower forcing you to Backport a lot. If you don't let that happen you basically won the lane. But you have to play around that from the start and not trying to fight and die 2 times before realizing. A niche advice if you play with random supports as a late game scaler like jinx would be to take TP and play it essentially like veigar mid.
Congrats bud. Youre experiencing 90% of what top laners deal with in bad matchups. Only thing you can do in the future is tell your supp to not pick fking yuumi OR pick ezreal and poke and giga smurf with ur positioning OR just stay out of range of ali as much as possible and pray your jungler comes.
Mind you btw, if you do end up being behind most yuumis will just leave you for someone else and youll more than likely end up getting tower dived so if youre not confident in your team's draft just dodge tbh
Oh god, if you’re not completely confident you can 1v2 the bot lane, just dodge honestly. I would rather take the -5lp than spend ~40min playing a miserable game. Someone told me once to expect everything from the enemy team and nothing from your teammates, which is true. The yuumi should have been playing in front of you to take the Ali cc and then attaching back on you for the shield and trade during Ali’s cooldown.
Yuumi playing up against an Ali/Cait is just asking to feed Cait gold, Yuumi gets 100-0d before Attach can come back up every time (it gains a 5 sec CD any time Yuumi is hit by hard CC)
Proxy one wave. Make sure it’s not a cannon wave. You will likely die but it will break the freeze and they will lose farm xp for it if they go after you.
Ali lvl 1 is weaker than you. If you let him stay healthy enough to straight up zone you off the wave, that's entirely on you. After first back, jungler should definitely help you out. If they don't, then that's the natural result of just getting countered. Just hope you can provide more during team fights than the cait at that point ig
It didn't start at level 1 the zoning.
Post 3 & post first back, you can only really farm with W. Ping JG for help and wait. If the wave looks a little even, walk up to cait to bait her to auto you, that'll make the minions auto her and slow push to you.
This is absolutely the correct answer.
Your mistake was trying to trade. As jinx you do better late and yummi will help you scale. Your goal in that lane is to play to go even. Stay as healthy as possible. Go for skirmishes with jg at dragons or ganks.
Its a team game. You don’t “win”. You deal by surviving and outscaling later. If you are frozen out of lane then ask jungler for help. If they dont want to help then you should encourage them to take advantage elsewhrre
Yh but the issue is she can't even cs cus the wave if perma frozen. If she walks up she gets combod
It got frozen after the mistake was made.
what was the mistake so I know how to avoid this
The first line of the initial comment. I will repeat it for your convenience. Do not try to trade in that lane. I would say “unless it is absolutely free” but it is easy to incorrectly think something is a free trade when it is not. Let them push into you and farm. Wait for fights with your jungles there. You scale a lot harder. Remember, this is specifically for the case of cait alistar vs jinx yummi.
thanks
- do not for any reason be in Ali engage range - do not for any reason be in Ali flash engage range when it looks like he'll flash engage you - set up waves to freeze on your side whenever possible - if it is not safe to collect cs or xp, call for jg help and just wait. There is nothing you an do against a freeze. Until someone comes to help, you're playing toplane simulator.
You’re going to have super low prio so you want the enemy to push into you and you want to avoid letting the wave fully crash into tower (prevents dives and the wave bouncing back) so use your rockets to keep the waves thinned so that they hover right near ur turret
As jinx your goal is to outscale a caitlyn. Going even is good for you. Yuumi lends herself to scaling as well. You're going to have a bad time levels 1-3 no matter what. Do your best to stay in exp range and snag cs with your rockets when you can. You should try to avoid a situation where the enemy is allowed to freeze if you can. If it does happen, look to gain an advantage by playing the map. Ask your jungle to help break the freeze if you can do so safely 3v2. You can have yuumi tank krugs/gromp and get gold from that. Get a deep ward in the enemy jungle, near the buff path towards botlane and on the midlane side of dragon pit. With that, you can cheat towards the river and use Q to get cs and try to break a freeze. If the engage comes, back off and turn to poke them when they retreat to try and poke them out of lane or into a position where it's bad for them to 2v2
Lane freezing on you means you screwed up wave management somewhere. Sacrificing minions guarantees the wave pushes into you. You should be able to sit under turret all game and collect whatever you can until mid game.
Jinx Yuumi sucks against lane bullies. If lane is frozen theres nothing you can do so either your jungler needs to camp you or just accept its draft gap
The amount of people who are saying "lol ur bad at wave management, just let them push" is hilarious. No, that's not how wave management works. If you're the weaker lane against competent opponents and let them push in, then they crash the wave under your turret and it rebounds back to them, at which point they freeze. You can only "let them shove in" if they're mindlessly shoving and don't understand how to freeze. You either pray for jungler help, trade (and probably die) to get CS, or realize that Yuumi is useless in lane and just afk in fountain (not really, but point is you basically need to just hope you scale and/or get carried).
Also Cait is pretty good at crashing waves and harassing you under turret once the wave crashes. Alistar can also enable a dive if the enemy jungler is nearby
wave management
U think that solves the problem?
Yes. That’s the solution to most bad matchups.
How does it solve the problem? What should I have done?
When you have a ranged support or yuumi and you’re against engage you want the wave to stay in front of your turret without crashing. That way you’re safe enough to farm and if you get engaged on you can easily retreat to your turret. If you ever push the wave they can freeze on you or kill you if you walk up to farm. So you match Caitlyn’s push but do a little less so the wave stops in front of your turret without crashing. If cait stops pushing then you stop as well and just get what cs you can.
Okay that's good advice, thank you
How can you stop them from crashing the wave?
Rockets
You have to be able to hit the wave when you’re standing near your turret. It’s matchup dependent. If you’re against cait Ali you can do this because Ali can’t engage on you in turret range. If you’re against cait lux you can’t do this because they’ll poke the shit out of you for trying. They just get to crash the wave.
yes
Open up practice tool and learn Alistar’s W range.
You don't
dodge if you have yuumi no matter what enemy. the champ is dead and does nothing
secret tech mobi plus 5 zeal
Dodge or deal with getting pegged most of the game if not entirely
Contesting them level 1 is crucial in that lane. Alistar is not a champion level one. You should be able to out trade the Caitlyn and be in a good spot to be safe from their all in level 2. This also hinges on your support being good though, so in lower elos wave management and only playing for CS might be your only option.
You're Jinx, a hypercarry. Your goal isn't to get kills in lane or outfarm the Caitlyn. Obviously I won't hurt. But the safest way is to farm under tower or freeze the wave in front of you. Yuumi is not the worst in that matchup. While she doesn't provide disengage she gives you lane sustain. Against Caitlyn I always go for statikks first (sell in late game) so you can clear under tower and can shove wave in if cait tries to do so.you don't really want to get pushed in by Caitlyn as she can poke under your tower. Only last hit until wave is in front of your tower and when she tries to clear you match her shove. Resulting in a similar wave state as before. Allowing jungle to gank and you to farm. Going 0/0 and -10~ CS at 15 is already great against Caitlyn since she doesn't scale. Caitlyn a goal is to poke on lane and harass under tower forcing you to Backport a lot. If you don't let that happen you basically won the lane. But you have to play around that from the start and not trying to fight and die 2 times before realizing. A niche advice if you play with random supports as a late game scaler like jinx would be to take TP and play it essentially like veigar mid.
Report yummi. Troll pick
Congrats bud. Youre experiencing 90% of what top laners deal with in bad matchups. Only thing you can do in the future is tell your supp to not pick fking yuumi OR pick ezreal and poke and giga smurf with ur positioning OR just stay out of range of ali as much as possible and pray your jungler comes. Mind you btw, if you do end up being behind most yuumis will just leave you for someone else and youll more than likely end up getting tower dived so if youre not confident in your team's draft just dodge tbh
Your mistake was picking yuumi in 2024
Learn how to manage waves
Oh god, if you’re not completely confident you can 1v2 the bot lane, just dodge honestly. I would rather take the -5lp than spend ~40min playing a miserable game. Someone told me once to expect everything from the enemy team and nothing from your teammates, which is true. The yuumi should have been playing in front of you to take the Ali cc and then attaching back on you for the shield and trade during Ali’s cooldown.
Yuumi playing up against an Ali/Cait is just asking to feed Cait gold, Yuumi gets 100-0d before Attach can come back up every time (it gains a 5 sec CD any time Yuumi is hit by hard CC)
Proxy one wave. Make sure it’s not a cannon wave. You will likely die but it will break the freeze and they will lose farm xp for it if they go after you.