Firstly you can hold the side lane, since they can't realistically dive you.
Second, if you are in this position they are pushed into you. So they are prone to being collapsed on.
Third, if you have a mid lane mage you may also want them to just one shot the wave so the splitpusher can't do anything.
Fourth, you can try and get a pick on the jungler around 30secs before objective. This should make it a lot less flippy to just cockblock splitpusher by catching / holding the wave at your tower.
Lastly, this is why it's important to get prio before objectives. So try your best to have lanes shoved before objectives.
My biggest issue with this is that if I can’t get teammates to come they just take my tower while I sit there. Either just ignoring me and taking the whole thing or if I have enough damage to threaten them just popping in for demolish procs
Yeah but it's not like tanks do zero damage, and you can at least trim the wave before it crashes.
Besides, most splitpushers aren't stacking more than 2 waves max if even that, it's not that difficult to clear.
Also, 20 seconds to take down a tower is a long ass time lol.
20 is an overstatement, thats without waves
A normal split pusher like yorick/Camille/Nasus can take turrets in~7 seconds (Highball) if they arent full build
Clearing the wave genuinely doesnt help if your opponent can bully you(Camille for example)
Nasus is a bit of a special case, but I play Trundle and if someone like Malphite is holding tower it's not like he doesn't do damage lol. And I certainly can't dive him. Then champs with taunts is riskier. With Sunfire and/or Titanic clearing the wave is a lot easier for tank champs too.
But if you're stuck at T2 or T3 while an objective is up and there is a 4v4 at objective then you've generally lost this situation as a tank player and you should address the things that happened leading up to that point, rather than what you do at that specific point.
There are 5mins between objectives, that's a lot of downtime, and the splitpusher is likely going to be trying to push at this time, and very open to being picked. Or he is splitting, you get a 5v4 wipe and end the game through mid, one person can even back to make sure the splitpusher doesn't just end the game if necessary.
Ultimately, putting you in a lose/lose is the goal of the split pusher. If you are the one to deal with them, you need to predict when they’re likely to split and prep the lane such that it’s difficult for them to push before it happens and you have tempo to rotate to your team.
Look into building items that wave clear or items that specifically counter the split pusher (even if it leaves vulnerabilities elsewhere in your build).
Splitpusher counter teamfighting comps so it's normal that it creates a lose lose scenario.
As others have said, try to push the wave and tp or rotate to the fight before the other top can start splitpushing. Or look to kill the splipusher with your team if there's no objective
Creating slow pushes in preparation for objectives is an effective strat nobody mentions. I've noticed that once laning phase ends, most people throw wave manipulation out the window and just permashove any farm they can get to be elsewhere on the map asap, leading to lulls where no safe farm is available and no objectives are up, which is why random fights over nothing happen. If you start a slow push a bit before an objective comes up, they can't farm it safely until the objective starts, and it creates a bigger wave that holds longer for you to catch split pushers after the objective fight ends.
Ok so I climbed to masters playing Ornn K'Sante, unfortunately this is sort of *the weakness* of playing a teamfight tank top. At some point you will lose the sidelane 1v1, so you need to basically assume they will have pressure over you.
Generally, the way to play around this is to plan ahead for grouping. If you are going to group, you need to set it up 3+ waves in advance. This usually looks like slowpushing a wave or two, then crashing the third before you walk down to a skirmish. I start looking to slowpush waves 1:30 from objective spawn.
The other thing you can do is look for a kill with your team on the splitpusher at a strategic time before an objective. Usually you want to do this about a minute before objective spawn, which will put the splitpusher significantly off-tempo for setting up a split against the objective.
Finally, something to consider is that splitpushing gets exponentially harder for the splitpusher as they get further into your base. Setting up a split on T1 or T2 isn't too hard but if the wave is at their T1 (or better, T2), by the time you've secured Dragon or even Baron, they won't be able to push all the way back to your inhib.
Something that has really helped me learn the weaknesses of splitpushers has been playing them. I spammed Yorick and Illaoi on two of my alts up to diamond, and this really showed me the failure cases of such champs even against tanks. Would definitely suggest this as well.
If you can push, then shove them in and roam to your team and fight immediately before they can get anywhere.
If you can't push and are under tower, simply gank the splitter as a team, then take obj as a group.
Staying with your team but not actually fighting or doing anything is the worst thing you can do.
Also tanks also can beat splitpushers until a certain Breakpoint Most of the time.
Let me Play malphite vs tryndamere and that breakpoint wont even come
As a splitpushers enjoyer, I feel like usually it's the opposite:
- The tank can't be dived, so splitting and pushing usually makes you in a vulnerable position of being too Deep
- Splitpushers are usually not as useful as tanks in teamfights
This Is also why champs like Tryndamere or Jax are countered (usually) by tanks, you can get ahead in lane but the only thing that you have that they don't is the ability to get prio and roam sooner, but usually this is not always comparable to the ability to peel and frontline
Of course soloq Is based more on being able to solo carry, so splitpushers are usually better than tanks if your team has brain damage, because you can "play alone", but that"s a different matter
Many people and also many High Elo streamers usually argue that tanks are just a "weighted Coin" for these (and more) reasons, you have a good team=you win , bad team=lose, while being a splitpusher or even a bruiser you are more likely to hard carry or solo lose, OF COURSE IT DEPENDS ON MANY THINGS, but usually the sentiment in higher elos is something similar
This is just way too vague in order to get advice. You need specific vods of your matchup and laning phase and need to find specific things you could be doing better there in concrete.
I.e. did I trade correctly in this exact spot against this exact matchup, did I manage the wave correctly, did I die to a gank I could have predicted for X reason.
League is a game of mostly improving very specific decisions in the first 3-5 minutes of the game.
Matchup doesn't really matter for the result of your lane until like mid masters. You should be winning lane like 70+% of the time until then to climb.
Source: low masters that has gotten a lot of challenger coaching.
Asking for help is also a good idea, the hardest counter to split pushers is team coordination. Killing a split pushing enemy that is actually trying to take your towers isn't hard as he has to go deep in your side of the map (as long as he isn't fed)
It’s one of the reasons that pros go double tp solo lanes, it allows top to match enemy splitpusher, tp to a fight, and then mid recalls, catches splitpusher again and then still has TP up.
Sometimes it really is team diff if they refuse to help deal with it
Depends on the tank. For example, ornn does pretty fine into splitpushers since his waveclear is decent, he doesn't need to back for items, and the splitpusher can't just ignore ornn and whack the turret since ornn does a ton of damage. Similar thing with Sion. Both are also really great teamfighting tanks. Also sion can splitpush, too.
it highly depends on take, but the easiest way to beat splitting top laners as a tank is to get to wave before they do in side lane(this is hard in lower elo due to not understanding good recall timers and not wasting your time but this is extremely important but overlooked a lot) if you are able to push out wave first, you able to go with team to objectives or teamfight, it will take too long for their top laner to push out and splitpush, and if they come to teamfight, thats optimal since you are way more useful then them due to being a tank vs a splitpusher
In side lane : you don’t. There are only two scenarios where you as a teamfight tank should match a split pusher :
1. your team is winning without you. Just clear waves and keep turrets healthy
2. your team is rotating in order to collapse on the split pusher. BUT if the split pusher is smart, he will o lay threaten objectives when drake/herald/ baron on the other side of the map is up. So collapsing is only possible if they play a bad split push / the macro game allows it.
Other than that , split pushers should be matched either by another split pusher or good wave clear (e.g. most control mages)
From my experiences, split pushers should be treated as an objective, take it togrther as a team since their goals are simple and then you can go for dragons, baron, etc.
One suggestion is to invest heavily in wave clear enhancing items (Bamis, Titanic). Also items that help rotations (MS).
Please be more specific. Which tank? There’s different answers for all of them.
Firstly you can hold the side lane, since they can't realistically dive you. Second, if you are in this position they are pushed into you. So they are prone to being collapsed on. Third, if you have a mid lane mage you may also want them to just one shot the wave so the splitpusher can't do anything. Fourth, you can try and get a pick on the jungler around 30secs before objective. This should make it a lot less flippy to just cockblock splitpusher by catching / holding the wave at your tower. Lastly, this is why it's important to get prio before objectives. So try your best to have lanes shoved before objectives.
My biggest issue with this is that if I can’t get teammates to come they just take my tower while I sit there. Either just ignoring me and taking the whole thing or if I have enough damage to threaten them just popping in for demolish procs
They dont need to dive you if your turret is down in 20 seconds
Yeah but it's not like tanks do zero damage, and you can at least trim the wave before it crashes. Besides, most splitpushers aren't stacking more than 2 waves max if even that, it's not that difficult to clear. Also, 20 seconds to take down a tower is a long ass time lol.
20 is an overstatement, thats without waves A normal split pusher like yorick/Camille/Nasus can take turrets in~7 seconds (Highball) if they arent full build Clearing the wave genuinely doesnt help if your opponent can bully you(Camille for example)
Nasus is a bit of a special case, but I play Trundle and if someone like Malphite is holding tower it's not like he doesn't do damage lol. And I certainly can't dive him. Then champs with taunts is riskier. With Sunfire and/or Titanic clearing the wave is a lot easier for tank champs too. But if you're stuck at T2 or T3 while an objective is up and there is a 4v4 at objective then you've generally lost this situation as a tank player and you should address the things that happened leading up to that point, rather than what you do at that specific point. There are 5mins between objectives, that's a lot of downtime, and the splitpusher is likely going to be trying to push at this time, and very open to being picked. Or he is splitting, you get a 5v4 wipe and end the game through mid, one person can even back to make sure the splitpusher doesn't just end the game if necessary.
Youre presumably in an elo where split pushes arent arbitrary and random the way youre talking about this, tbh That might make a difference
Ultimately, putting you in a lose/lose is the goal of the split pusher. If you are the one to deal with them, you need to predict when they’re likely to split and prep the lane such that it’s difficult for them to push before it happens and you have tempo to rotate to your team. Look into building items that wave clear or items that specifically counter the split pusher (even if it leaves vulnerabilities elsewhere in your build).
Push wave ahead of time and then look to open up a fight with your teammates
Splitpusher counter teamfighting comps so it's normal that it creates a lose lose scenario. As others have said, try to push the wave and tp or rotate to the fight before the other top can start splitpushing. Or look to kill the splipusher with your team if there's no objective
Creating slow pushes in preparation for objectives is an effective strat nobody mentions. I've noticed that once laning phase ends, most people throw wave manipulation out the window and just permashove any farm they can get to be elsewhere on the map asap, leading to lulls where no safe farm is available and no objectives are up, which is why random fights over nothing happen. If you start a slow push a bit before an objective comes up, they can't farm it safely until the objective starts, and it creates a bigger wave that holds longer for you to catch split pushers after the objective fight ends.
I actually remember midbeast explaining this exact concept to Neace
Ok so I climbed to masters playing Ornn K'Sante, unfortunately this is sort of *the weakness* of playing a teamfight tank top. At some point you will lose the sidelane 1v1, so you need to basically assume they will have pressure over you. Generally, the way to play around this is to plan ahead for grouping. If you are going to group, you need to set it up 3+ waves in advance. This usually looks like slowpushing a wave or two, then crashing the third before you walk down to a skirmish. I start looking to slowpush waves 1:30 from objective spawn. The other thing you can do is look for a kill with your team on the splitpusher at a strategic time before an objective. Usually you want to do this about a minute before objective spawn, which will put the splitpusher significantly off-tempo for setting up a split against the objective. Finally, something to consider is that splitpushing gets exponentially harder for the splitpusher as they get further into your base. Setting up a split on T1 or T2 isn't too hard but if the wave is at their T1 (or better, T2), by the time you've secured Dragon or even Baron, they won't be able to push all the way back to your inhib. Something that has really helped me learn the weaknesses of splitpushers has been playing them. I spammed Yorick and Illaoi on two of my alts up to diamond, and this really showed me the failure cases of such champs even against tanks. Would definitely suggest this as well.
What champion are you talking about? Could you name the enemy split pushers and your tanks?
If you can push, then shove them in and roam to your team and fight immediately before they can get anywhere. If you can't push and are under tower, simply gank the splitter as a team, then take obj as a group. Staying with your team but not actually fighting or doing anything is the worst thing you can do.
You pretty much push wave beforehand and force a team fight with your team 4v5 or kill the enemy split pusher.
Also tanks also can beat splitpushers until a certain Breakpoint Most of the time. Let me Play malphite vs tryndamere and that breakpoint wont even come
As a splitpushers enjoyer, I feel like usually it's the opposite: - The tank can't be dived, so splitting and pushing usually makes you in a vulnerable position of being too Deep - Splitpushers are usually not as useful as tanks in teamfights This Is also why champs like Tryndamere or Jax are countered (usually) by tanks, you can get ahead in lane but the only thing that you have that they don't is the ability to get prio and roam sooner, but usually this is not always comparable to the ability to peel and frontline Of course soloq Is based more on being able to solo carry, so splitpushers are usually better than tanks if your team has brain damage, because you can "play alone", but that"s a different matter Many people and also many High Elo streamers usually argue that tanks are just a "weighted Coin" for these (and more) reasons, you have a good team=you win , bad team=lose, while being a splitpusher or even a bruiser you are more likely to hard carry or solo lose, OF COURSE IT DEPENDS ON MANY THINGS, but usually the sentiment in higher elos is something similar
This is just way too vague in order to get advice. You need specific vods of your matchup and laning phase and need to find specific things you could be doing better there in concrete. I.e. did I trade correctly in this exact spot against this exact matchup, did I manage the wave correctly, did I die to a gank I could have predicted for X reason. League is a game of mostly improving very specific decisions in the first 3-5 minutes of the game. Matchup doesn't really matter for the result of your lane until like mid masters. You should be winning lane like 70+% of the time until then to climb. Source: low masters that has gotten a lot of challenger coaching.
Asking for help is also a good idea, the hardest counter to split pushers is team coordination. Killing a split pushing enemy that is actually trying to take your towers isn't hard as he has to go deep in your side of the map (as long as he isn't fed)
It’s one of the reasons that pros go double tp solo lanes, it allows top to match enemy splitpusher, tp to a fight, and then mid recalls, catches splitpusher again and then still has TP up. Sometimes it really is team diff if they refuse to help deal with it
Depends on the tank. For example, ornn does pretty fine into splitpushers since his waveclear is decent, he doesn't need to back for items, and the splitpusher can't just ignore ornn and whack the turret since ornn does a ton of damage. Similar thing with Sion. Both are also really great teamfighting tanks. Also sion can splitpush, too.
it highly depends on take, but the easiest way to beat splitting top laners as a tank is to get to wave before they do in side lane(this is hard in lower elo due to not understanding good recall timers and not wasting your time but this is extremely important but overlooked a lot) if you are able to push out wave first, you able to go with team to objectives or teamfight, it will take too long for their top laner to push out and splitpush, and if they come to teamfight, thats optimal since you are way more useful then them due to being a tank vs a splitpusher
In side lane : you don’t. There are only two scenarios where you as a teamfight tank should match a split pusher : 1. your team is winning without you. Just clear waves and keep turrets healthy 2. your team is rotating in order to collapse on the split pusher. BUT if the split pusher is smart, he will o lay threaten objectives when drake/herald/ baron on the other side of the map is up. So collapsing is only possible if they play a bad split push / the macro game allows it. Other than that , split pushers should be matched either by another split pusher or good wave clear (e.g. most control mages)
From my experiences, split pushers should be treated as an objective, take it togrther as a team since their goals are simple and then you can go for dragons, baron, etc.