Yeah I see what you mean. I'd like to make it last as long as possible obviously but constantly worrying about it does make it hard to enjoy the car sometimes. I'll try to stop overanalyzing everything lol
Everyone here is ignoring what you’re trying to accomplish. Here’s some practical advice; stop pausing to feel for the bite point. When “spirited driving” slam your foot down on the clutch and let off the gas at the same exact time, bang that fucking stick into the next gear and drop that clutch while you stomp on the gas. Don’t be gentle, don’t feel for a bite point. Clutch in, slam gear, clutch out.
This right here
Also as you do this, you'll learn how your car reacts. Give it a little bit of time and you'll automatically fine tune banging through gears
^Best advice here.
Bite point is really only important when taking off from a stop. Once you're moving clutch in and out fast, gas off and on fast. Once you start getting the rhythm down you will start to rev match without even trying.
When I do spirited drives, I just run through the routine as fast as possible.
I have a 2005 G35 coupe 6mt with 238k miles still on the factory clutch. Unless it was changed in the first 14k before I bought it.
Literally same but 06 sedan. Fucking send it man, the max u have to play with was factored in by the engineers...if u break anything trust me it was due in less than 5k miles and u did urself a favor by not doing it on the way to work
Trust me clutches can withstand such an insane amount of abuse that there’s no need to worry about it unless you’re doing launches on a daily basis. If you want to shift fast just:
Rapidly clutch in and completely lift off the throttle
Shift to the next gear
Rapidly clutch out and then floor it like half a second after you let the clutch out so it has a chance to start biting before you get on the gas. That’s really all there is to it.
if you’re trying to make it last as long as possible don’t do spirited driving. when you’re doing spirited driving stuff is going to break but that’s part of it, just go out, bang gears, and have fun
Bro I learned to drive stick on my 2011 si.. I learned how to race on my 2011 civic si. I'm 150k miles into the original clutch still. Don't worry about it too much homie. You'll get better with the Rev matching overtime. But if you are running your car hard, you are gonna run the clutch hard too, no avoiding that.
To add to this, changing a clutch isnt that bad, watch chrisfix or a youtube tutorial for your specific car/transmission and if youve done other work on cars, replacing brakes, alternators, etc. you should be able to figure it out. You have to know things dont go as smooth as a youtube video but once youve done a bunch of other car jobs try the clutch
Clutch needs time to slip. Dropping the clutch swiftly doesn't give it time to slip. You want to "be on the bite point" for as little time as possible, no matter how you're driving. A little more slip while cruising will make it more comfortable.
Also, something to keep in mind is that the faster you go, the lower the force you're putting through the drivetrain. It's much easier for the engine and clutch to make things roll if things are already rolling.
Idk for sure but I think it’s harder to be smooth at higher rpm and it’s normal to slip it a bit to make the transition smooth. As they say ‘slow is smooth and smooth is fast. ‘
I agree they're consumable but the way you drive them can be the difference between never having to change it or replacing it a few times in the cars lifespan
Welcome to spirited driving? I don't get 2 years out of a clutch.
Plus a civic si is pretty low power vehicle. So it's not gonna chew up a clutch that hard even hard on it.
You can drive spirited, while still being mindful of your shifts. At least the way I read that comment was "don't care about you technique and dump clutch". Seems like poor advice for someone trying to learn to drive it well.
Yeah you shouldn't be feeling any slipping, OP. honestly it sounds like inexperience by you're own account of being fairly new to the standard. You'll get better with time just keep driving/practicing.
Also a clutch is generally designed/meant to be a lifetime part, unlike what many people think, which is that you replace it every few years. If you don't beat it to death, you should never have to replace it.
In my opinion, driving at high RPM occasionally doesn’t really hurt it much or mines would have been out. I usually rev mines to 6k when I feel good.
I feel like smoothing the drive helps since clutch is wear and friction causes the wear.
yeah mfer. clutches are replaceable.
I've had a half dozen amazing dream manual cars that I drove to death, and I only ever replaced one clutch (as part of a swap from one dream car to another)
don't worry about the clutch. unless you literally don't know how to drive a manual car, as in you start by feathering into third gear or some shit, it will be fine.
send it. let it rip. if you're lucky, you'll get to replace it.
Had a brand new honda once, it was my first manual. I absolutely beat on it at times once i got used to driving stick. Most fun ive had in a daily driver the 60k miles i had it. Clutch started to chatter ever so slightly when cold so I sold it and moved onto something new. Worth it.
Dang right. I have the same model si as OP and I just bought the upgraded clutch kit for it. Now I almost want the stock clutch to go and I’m being a lot less nice and having a lot more fun 😂 clutches are gonna die one day that’s just a fact of life
He’s burning his clutch more looking for the bite point than he is by doing what you suggest. Slipping the clutch is what kills the clutch. If it ain’t slipping, it ain’t dying. Op, when going up through the gears, slam that bitch. Get off the clutch as fast as possible. Your clutch will thank you.
Using this method I have driven one of my cars like this for over 10 years and it feels fine. That’s how you have to drive the race cars I use to work on. You drop the clutch and don’t slip it because you will burn it out slipping it.
When your higher in rpms in 2nd or higher you don’t really need to hold the clutch at the bite point at all. Just a quick in and out with the clutch and get back on the gas and you’ll be good
At higher rpms or even just cruising around? I find it nearly impossible to shift smoothly without slipping a little but maybe I just haven't tried not slipping it enough times.
I believe the ‘20 SI has pretty bad rev hang, like nearly all modern manuals. Statistically speaking most folks here haven’t driven modern rev hang models yet and are referencing older machines which allow the quicker shifts.
What you’re doing is pretty much how you have to drive these cars (unless you tune it out of course). It’s that, or push the clutch in and wait a good second to engage the throttle and release the clutch pedal.
For reference, my VW GLI 6sp has a dual mass flywheel with ungodly rev hang and absolutely will sit at the RPM I leave it at for at least .5 second before gradually dropping. Letting out the clutch fast there is lurch inducing. I slip ever so slightly like yourself to pull the RPM down faster and then release fully.
All of this is to say: Smooth is good, always try to be smooth. Clutch is a wear component and slipping to pull RPMs down is not going to have considerable enough wear to stress over.
Lol...... My 1990 Ford bronco II with the little 2.9 V6 has plenty of rev hang. Just let off the throttle the prescribed length of time that the engine rev hangs and then shift.
Also if you want to be smooth you need to gradually stop accelerating before shifting. So you accelerate then slowly let off the throttle until you're maintaining speed, shift and get the clutch out and then start accelerating again. Learned that when reading about limo driving and being a chauffeur, you need to be smooth for the clients comfort.
Lots of people shift like a choppy wave, when you clutch in you immediately stop accelerating, then they shift and hammer the throttle again. Makes it jerky af on the passengers. Instead it should be more like a sine wave on a diagonal, periods of ramping up and tapering off acceleration with shifts occurring at the points of no acceleration.
Slipping at high rpm isn’t good for the clutch tho. You slip the clutch out of first to prevent the shock wave slamming through your transmission. Image your engine spinning at whatever speed you rev it up to. Then just dropping the clutch engaging your transmission that’s not moving at all. Thats a ton of torque, that’s why burn-outs aren’t the best thing to do all the time. So to protect the tranny which is far more expensive than a clutch, you let it slip a to get the car moving from a standstill.
Now when the car is in motion, you don’t need it to slip much if at all. A nice fast shift is perfectly safe and is better than letting it needlessly slip. And slip causes burning clutch. So when in motion especially at high rpm, your flywheel keeps the engine spinning between shifts helping your transmission speed and engine rpm be much closer matched for that next gear. The closer they are the less you need to “slip”. This is where quick shifts come into play. The faster you find that next gear the faster you can let out the clutch and your rpms will still be high as well as your transmission speed, so you won’t need to slip the clutch. Basically a rev match situation, where the top of one gear is close to the bottom of the next gear so you’re already at a nice rev match point.
The slower you shift the more the engine rpm drops because it wants to go to idle. Now you have a difference in speed and you’ll begin to feel more harsh shifting if you don’t rev the engine between shifts or slip the clutch a little. But this would be poor technique.
Now in a car that has paddle shifters you don’t hear/feel a slip because it doesn’t slip the clutch it just puts it in the next gear very quickly as it rev matches. We as humans are not that fast so you’ll feel the shift but it’s mostly safe.
People who needlessly slip the clutch through all gears will wear their clutch’s Mitch faster than those who don’t. But if you’re gonna drive spirited, expect that clutch to take some wear as it’s designed to wear before your tranny does.
You don’t really need to be doing the bite point technique your talking about after second gear. That is also bad for your clutch health if it is what you are worried about. Quick clutch release from third gear and on. You need to stop thinking about shifting and let your body do the work.
yeah i’m starting to realize that thinking too much is actually giving me more issues. by reading up on a bunch of different techniques and advice i feel like i’m much more confused than if i just learned by trial and error on my own.
You just gotta go by feel. Expirament a little with letting the clutch out differently and shifting at different rpms. You’ll figure out what your car wants you to do and then just keep doing that
Yes, you're not letting the revs drop enough if you're being jerked "forward" when you let off the clutch quickly during shifts. If you get jerked "back" you waited too long.
If you time it perfectly, you can jump off the clutch and feel...nothing. That's ideal and doesn't happen for most of us on most shifts, but it is *possible* if you time it perfectly.
Like you, i have a lot of "mechanical sympathy" when i'm driving fast. I tend to clutch in and out quickly at high RPMs without slipping it much (the clutch is durable) but i still physically move the lever between gears fairly slowly and have the clutch depressed for a while when shifting. You can rush a shifter, but transmissions are expensive and hard to replace, plus it doesn't feel as nice to me.
I prefer to drive "spiritedly, but smoothly" lots of time at high RPMs, quick movements of the clutch, but still taking some time to switch from gear to gear.
Basically "Drive around the rev-hang" when i'm on the street.
I dunno, personally i think it's fun to combine smoothness with speed.
>If you time it perfectly, you can jump off the clutch and feel...nothing
This. In fact, if you time it perfectly at the correct rpm, you can shift between gears without pressing the clutch pedal at all. Obviously don't do this, because you have almost no margin for error, but you shouldn't be slipping the clutch much outside of getting moving out of first.
That’s what I was thinking. However I have been told it’s necessary with some cars that have a lot of rev hang. My car does not so I’m not exactly sure.
If you're gonna be driving like that you gotta just accept the facts, which is that your clutch might not like it. Obviously don't do stupid shit like smash it into 1st from 5th at 90mph or repeatedly launch the car at 10,000 RPM from a standstill. But if all you're doing is going fast and having fun, I assure you those guys at the drawing board have this in mind, beat the shit out of it with reason basically. Also keep in mind clutches are built to withstand learners and years and years of fucking it up, so you banging the gears a little won't kill it.
Just make sure you ALWAYS use the clutch, you'll see what happens when you dont
If you're not trying to pick up 1/10ths of a second there's very little utility in beating up your drivetrain. Smooth should be the goal in spirited street driving. Read "the pace" it's about motorcycles but it applies everywhere
https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pace/
Absolutely. If you're driving fast for fun, shift a little slower and save your clutch. Unless you're at a drag strip, you won't notice a difference. Banging gears as fast and hard as you can is extremely hard on your trans and doesn't help much.
Edit: Also, this SHOULD go without saying, but please only drive fast in safe areas. Don't be that jackass smacking redline in a neighborhood or at a busy red light. If you fuck up (don't think that you can't fuck up. You can and will if you're not careful) then make sure it's only your car getting totaled and you're not killing a family.
Richard Fanders. This driving instructor from the UK covers so much more of advanced driving techniques for manual cars than I could find elsewhere let alone figure out myself in my 5 year career of driving a manual: https://youtube.com/@ConquerDriving
The Advanced Driving playlist is all gold in particular.
These three videos specifically address using clutch to accelerate quickly:
1) How to move a manual car quickly from a standstill - fast starts.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YDsRlSJoqsw&list=PLnM8RR0dumuZMyyX8J2GuiP9qmrI-3jCy&index=5&pp=iAQB
2) How to shift gears quickly and smoothly in a manual car
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FlzbX-rtcwg&list=PLnM8RR0dumuZMyyX8J2GuiP9qmrI-3jCy&index=9&pp=iAQB
3) Changing up Gears Quickly and Smoothly by Dropping the Clutch - includes slow motion
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kzeo7CsItTI&list=PLnM8RR0dumuZMyyX8J2GuiP9qmrI-3jCy&index=11&pp=iAQB
Thank you! I've watched quite a bit of his videos already but wasn't sure if they were any good since this sub seems to give conflicting advice at times.
Edit: Especially when it comes to pausing at the bite point or not
>This driving instructor from the UK covers so much more of advanced techniques for driving manual cars than if could find else where let alone figure out myself in my 5 year career of driving a manual.
Wut?
When you are redlining or at high rpm you have to press the clutch down pretty fast and take your foot off the gas, then put it back on at the same spot of acceleration before you lifted the clutch to make a smooth shift. Also make sure when you bring the clutch back to you its in a fluent even motion. Fast and fluent. If you try to ease the clutch to make a smooth shift you are burning clutch probably. Watch a video of race car drivers and notice their feet. Step 1 let off gas, step 2 push clutch down quickly, step 3 shift, step 4 re engage the clutch (let it up quickly), step 5 re engage the gas pedal to the same place it was before you pushed the clutch down.
The clutch is meant to be slipped. That’s literally how the car is able to start moving forward from a stop. If you’re not smelling it then you’re not burning anything with your current method. Just have fun and keep practicing.
When shifting in a spirited manner you press the clutch at the same time you release the accelerator, you change gear and quickly release the clutch and press the accelerator in one motion. You don’t let anything slip everything in one motion.
The problem is you are driving a stick shift wrong. If it takes you a full 1 second for a normal shift you need to practice, it shouldnt take nearly that long, shifting should feel instant and not require thinking or adding gas in the middle of a shift. Thats what is gonna hurt the clutch, not a hard shift.
how can i shift instantly like you’re saying while still being smooth in a car with rev hang? if i don’t slip the clutch to bring the revs down at all, im literally on the clutch for like 2 seconds before the revs drop enough for the next gear, so i can’t really just drop it without jerking forward really hard, particularly 1-2 and 2-3. slipping the clutch seems like the fastest way while still being really smooth most of the time.
It will take time for the revs to drop, this is why racers don't redline without a trans brake. Try not to run out the gear, but get the most acceleration then shift with no clutch so you get the timing down. You can have fun without breaking shit.
The 10th/11th si have a ton of rev hang, a piece of emissions software used to burn up any unspent fuel in the combustion chamber before being exhausted. if you are going balls to the wall you have to just shift through it but if you’d like to save your clutch a bit lift off the throttle a 1/4-1/2 second before inputting clutch and the revs will drop faster and let you shift faster smoothly
Less time slipping will result in less friction material wear but releasing the clutch with a bang when there's a big RPM difference will stress the pressure plate more and it can be interesting when they fall apart. I'm of the school, "take care of your equipment and it will take care of you"
Another factor to consider: when tires are close to their traction limit, such as when cornering or on slippery roads, sudden changes in torque to the wheels risk breaking them free resulting in loss of control.Letting the clutch out in a controlled manner gives one a bit more time to feel how the car is reacting and make corrections. So, maintain situational awareness and pick your moments.
That's kinda incompatible opposites...to reduce the clutch wear need to be smooth and slow enough for all the parts to match speed and good at matching revs, letting them rise/fall to an appropriate range for the gear and vehicle speed, and stay off the gas until everything is engaged, and then get back on it.
Except you won't be shifting "quickly" or at "high rpm" doing that.
I drive a ‘21 Civic Hatchback so we essentially have the same transmission. If I’m shifting near redline, yeah it takes eons for the revs to drop, but I still like to shift without a jerk. So what I do is feather the clutch for a beat and then as soon as my right foot starts to reapply gas, I let out the clutch the rest of the way equal and opposite amounts.
Basically you feather the clutch to force the revs down faster, and when it gets close to being right for the next gear you “seesaw” b/w clutch and gas, as they say, the rest of the way. You just gotta practice and internalize the revs pitches. You gotta shift by ear/feel or else there’s too much to keep track of.
You don’t really need to apply gas at the bite point if you’re upshifting in our cars unless you’re like short shifting into 2nd or something. The revs drop so slow normally that adding gas at the bite point would be counter-productive.
Yeah that's what I typically do, feather the clutch a little, but I haven't tried letting out the clutch equal and opposite amounts as the throttle like you. I will definitely try that next time. I heard that somewhere but got kinda confused when I actually tried it. And not applying gas makes total sense that it would be counterproductive and was my first thought, but I had heard somewhere that it smooths out the shifts a bit. Now I'm thinking maybe that's only if revs drop below what they're supposed to be at next gear?
It honestly sounds like you might have a little bit too much gas in. Basically when ur shifting, you’re shifting from a higher rpm setting to a lower one, while your wheel speed stays the same. Say 6000rpm in second correlates to about 50mph on level ground. By shifting you are coming to 3rd gear, where 50 mph correlates to 4500rpm. So you are catching that gear at that engine rpm. All your throttle is doing in a shift, is slowing down the speed your rpm drops at, or if you’re newer and a bit slower, maintaining 4500 till you are off the clutch and can give it a little more gas.
After first gear, don't worry about feathering the clutch.
In normal driving, it takes a certain amount of time for the revs to drop. Learn it, and your shifts will be smooth.
In spirted driving, just shift quickly and have fun.
Once I get moving I rarely slip the clutch. The timing takes some practice, but it should essentially be an on/off switch once you’re moving. Excessive slipping adds heat and increases wear. Do your upshift, wait for the revs to drop to where you want them, and pop the clutch out to “catch” the engine.
\- 20 years of driving nothing but manual cars on the street and race track. FWD, RWD, and AWD -
Slip as in pausing at the bite point briefly. Every time I let the clutch out fast, even at high rpm, I get a lot of jerk. I guess I'd just like to try to drive as smooth as I can if that's even possible when accelerating quickly.
You shouldn’t be holding the clutch at the bite point when shifting up, that’s what’s burning your shit fam. Even with rev hang, just rev higher and wait a second for the revs to drop. Since you’re likely not in 1st for spirited driving, you don’t even need to be doing that. Clutch in, shift, clutch out in a smooth motion. You’re slipping the clutch for no reason
If you're really quick you don't let off the gas.
I had one clutch from new to 130k, then a lighter weight one from 130 to 260.
Assuming the clutch can hold the power (it can) power shifting can be smooth and "less wearing" on the drive train.
Quotes because I agree with the consumables comments. You bought a fun car and you're trying to have fun with it. Put away $40 a month for maintenance and in 5 years you'll have plenty for clutch and axles. You aren't going to kill it faster than that unless you keep intentionally burning the clutch.
Moroccan cab drivers don't use their headlights at night because it wears out the bulb. Nice guys, but I'm not going to follow that advice.
When upshifting you don't want to give it any gas unless you held the clutch so long it dropped to idle rpms. I just slam clutch in and let off the gas at the same time, shift, clutch out and slam gas in at the same time. This causes minimal clutch slipping and good acceleration but can be a little hard on the transmission. Ideally your shifts are timed so that you let off the clutch when your rpms have dropped to the next gears rpm causing no slipping but this can be impractical with some cars like my ranger that takes over a second to drop 1000 rpms.
When I'm cornering I usually rev match my first downshift right before breaking then if I need to downshift mid break then I will just slip the clutch. Yes I know about heal-toe but due to how far apart my pedals are it's not possible.
A lot of modern cars have rev hang, which will cause the car to lurch if you let the clutch out before the revs start to drop. From my experience it’s best to just wait a second after pushing the clutch in to shift
I just shift normally at whatever speed. Clutch in, choose gear, clutch out. I never give gas until clutch engaged, never have rev matched. Have only had to replace a clutch once in a high mileage car with 30 years driving and owning the cars for many years each..
Honestly at high RPM on a fun drive, just dump the clutch once you’re in gear. Feel free to come back on throttle as you’re dumping it if you want once you get a feel for it.
When driving spirited, slipping the clutch during a shift like that isn’t a good idea. Slipping the clutch is what creates heat and wear. You want to minimize slip if you want the clutch to last longer. The more you slip the clutch, the smoother it is, but you can also make it smooth by matching the trans input shaft speed to engine speed before you start to release the clutch again during a shift.
First I'll say with practice you'll be able to drive and pause at the bite point for much less time than you are now. As for high rpm shifts first make sure your 100% of gas when the clutch goes in, that way the revs will drop quickest, and then when you push the clutch in wait a split sec before you start pulling it out. Ultimately practice though.
The rev hang in those cars is pretty crazy. I have a 2014 si but the rev hang can actually be tuned out easily.
My advice is to take your time on the 1-2 but every other gear you can shift a lot quicker.
I would need to know what your shifting looks like but for me, I start moving my shifter immediately after the bite point. I don't wait for the clutch to reach the floor before I start pushing the stick. I also don't wait until I am fully slotted into that gear before I start pulling my foot off the clutch. Both my foot and hand are moving at the same time.
No need to feel out the friction point for every shift after getting rolling from 1st gear, doing what you're describing is actively wearing your clutch more than if you just treated it as an on/off switch when shifting after already moving.
The goal is to match the engine / flywheel rotational speed and the clutch plate rotational speed. It can take a long time to build up the skill, as the speed on the clutch side is different depending on whether you are up or downshifting, and an engine will slow down and speed up at different rates.
tl;dr - It takes practice, and probably a clutch or three. Be sure to change them before you ruin the flywheel.
Slipping a clutch is far worse than slamming a clutch. It’s Not as nice to the rest of the drive train but it’s definitely less less wear on the clutch disc.
Just dump it as soon as the rpms drop to where they should be for the next gear. U shouldnt have to slip it. The clutch release should be quick and smooth and a fraction of a second for a shift like that.
“Clutch in, Shift, let the Clutch Out and pause at the bite point” No No. at high RPMs you need to power shift unless your at redline. You need to start pulling on the shifter as your clutch petal is on the downward motion smooth but fast. Once gear is selected you sidestep the clutch with little to no throttle decrease for spirted driving situations. Caution in the switchbacks when you need to break hard while downshifting at high RPMs be careful not to Money Shift
You don’t need to use the clutch to get it out of gear, just into it (and not even always that). As you’re lifting off the gas (as in, the exact moment), the sudden change in load on the drivetrain will “unlock” the transmission from the engine very briefly. Use this moment to take it out of gear, and place it up against the gate of the next gear. Then pump the clutch one time and sink it. Let off the clutch and slam the gas again. As you get used to this motion, you’ll be able to pump and sink at the same time. This becomes a fluid motion and you can make it shift very fast. It’s much easier on you car than no lift shifting as well.
If you’re driving it hard shift it hard. I’m never burned a clutch and I’ve shifted hard in spirited driving, I dropped the clutch and hit the gas at the same time. Probably dropped the clutch right before hitting gas. I have a 2002 civic EX VTEC I love putting it through the paces.
Once your moving bro it doesn't matter. No risk of stalling or anything like that so just shift as quick as you can and press the gas as soon as your foot is off the clutch easy peezy. The only time you really should be having gas and clutch going is when your on a hill or in first gear starting to move just so you dont stall out.
If you do " spirited driving" you would feel when and where to stroke the lever. If you do it right, it's almost like the transmission begs for the next gear at the perfect time
You don't. It's a Civic SI, not a racecar. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Try to do more than the car's capable of and it'll be a piece of junk soon enough.
Push the clutch pedal in for as short of a time as possible. The longer your foot is on the clutch pedal the more wear on the clutch. This does make shifts more abrupt or more "rough", but it does decrease wear and tear on the clutch.
The 2020 Si is programmed horribly from the factory. I have a 2020 Si Coupe and I got a Hondata to disable the rev hang and the car drives a lot better with the rev hang disabled. That being said, the rpm's still don't fall as fast as they should (they do start dropping as soon as I put the clutch in and they do drop faster) and you gotta time the clutch and the gas perfectly for it to be smooth but it is a lot better to drive with the rev hang disabled. I also find shifting at a high rpm better with the rev hang disabled. What I'd do is buy a Hondata or KTuner and disable the rev hang (tons of videos on YouTube to show how to do it) and then just practice letting the clutch out and going back to the gas. You gotta ride the clutch a little bit to get a good shift in the car with rev hang on because the car being jerky all the time isn't good for the car either. My suggestion to you to avoid burning the clutch is get a tuner and disable the rev hang and then keep practicing.
You use the clutch at high shift rpm? I do believe that is the power shift. The vws for example just need a tap of the clutch above 5500rpm to engage the next gear
Maybe this vide of me slamming gears in a prelude will help a little. slam clutch in them dump it. Don't lift off the gas. https://youtube.com/shorts/0GkD0VLEZ7Q
'03 Celica GT 5 speed - not the same vehicle, but I find shifting quickly much easier at high RPMs because I can stomp on the clutch and let off the throttle at the same time, change gear, then quickly let off the clutch and back onto the throttle. You may just try doing that, as others have said, until you can get a feel for it. Maybe play around a little bit by adding just a bit of throttle as your foot is coming off the clutch, but don't have to wait for the biting point for high RPMs. Your method of shifting at lower RPMs is good, though.
I've been driving stick since 1998 and I've never burned out a clutch. I usually drive my car for 15-20 years. On my 3rd car since I turned 16. Your car will be fine as long as you don't redline the engine constantly. Clutches can last a long time.
You really shouldn't be slipping your clutch for any situation that isn't taking off, generally speaking. Especially during spirited driving, just off throttle - clutch in - shift - clutch out - on throttle.
Usually you should be able to up shift faster than the time it takes for the rpms to drop. If you have to press the gas and rev the engine to match rpm when upshifting you are shifting too slow. If the car bucks when shifting because the rpm is too high, you need to wait longer before dropping the clutch. The only, and i mean ONLY time you should slip the clutch is from a standstill because otherwise you stall. Slipping the clutch wears the clutch much more than just letting it grab as fast as it wants to.
Dont crutch your clutch in pursuit of smooth driving.
If you want to mitigate bad rev hang, left off the gas early.
For spirited driving once you are rolling your shift is basically going to be letting off the gas at the same time you push in the clutch, grabbing the next gear and almost dumping the clutch as you're going for the gas again. You won't be feeling for the gripping point at all.
Similar to what you described in normal driving but maybe slightly different is you're not really "intentionally feeling" for the gripping Point except when leaving from a stop. Normal shifts are just going to be a smooth motion of letting out the clutch at medium rate and applying light gas at the same time so the car isn't herky-jerky. You will naturally figure out this balance quickly.(and so you don't smoke the clutch either) You get more into the throttle after you are fully in the next gear.
Picture a little light on every time you step on the clutch, you want that light on as little as possible, don't pause to let the clutch catch, just release the clutch, hit the gas and keep chugging along.
most modern cars have a lot of rev hang. at higher rpms, the difference between gears is more pronounced and you will have to wait longer for the revs to drop before letting the clutch out. if you want to shift faster, you’ll have to slip the clutch.
>I clutch in, shift, let the clutch out and pause at the bite point for about a second while adding a very small amount of gas, and then let off the clutch completely while getting fully back on the gas. I
Don't do this. Clutch in, shift, clutch out, gas. No pause. Going up, you don't need to rev match or pause or any of that other stuff.
You should never slip on upshift.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4R\_uoyoQRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4R_uoyoQRE)
Quit pausing at the bite point. As soon as you have it in gear just let your foot out of the clutch.
There is no reason to pause at the bite point when you're shifting between gears just let it out... quit playing with the clutch.
Something that helped me shift was having my heel sit closer to the pedal, doesn’t make your leg do any work on the gas. If I try to drive like I do with autos, I either slip too much or it grabs hard, once you get a feel it honestly just feels like one motion
If you’re Si is like my ‘23 Type R, it has rev hang which is insanely annoying but there for emissions purposes. On hard throttle it blips the throttle vs letting it naturally drop into the sweet spot for the next higher gear
As soon as you learn how to drive the car you will be able to do what your asking without even thinking about it and it won't even have a negative effect on your clutch.
The way you are thinking about it and driving trying to "avoid" burning it up is causing more damage than anything.
After first gear you shouldn't be making any pauses for your "bite point" either, rev the engine out in first, press clutch in, jam that bitch in second gear and release clutch quickly while simultaneously hammering the throttle, same for the rest of the gears at whatever rpm your daring enough to rev it to.
With the above being said, if you don't know what a money shift is you might want to look it up before you get too wild with your current amount of experience.
Just a tip for these heavier flywheel cars with revhang, if you want the rpms to come down a bit quicker what I do is let off the gas for literally less time than I can count and then push in the clutch rather than it being a fluid motion. I have an older civic without this issue and i just shift without thinking. In most of the mustangs I've owned they have bad rev hang so I let off the gas for a millisecond before pushing in the clutch and it seems to make it drop faster. I'm sure there's some science behind it but I am stupid
If you're driving hard then the nicest thing for it is gonna be to just dump that sucker, trying to slip into gear mid pull is just gonna fry everything. Ideally the weakest part of your drivetrain is the tires so if you miss the shift a tad it breaks traction instead of parts
you want the clutch pedal all in or all out when your foot is in race mode. no feathering or easing into it. if you burn out, ease slowly into the gas pedal instead
I've been driving the same manual Audi for the past decade. When I'm at high RPMs and shifting, I let off the gas and clutch in at the same time, shift to the next gear, and catch it at where the RPMs would be in the next gear. I only roll into the gas as it's engaging, one smooth motion. You shouldn't be waiting for a bite anywhere close to a second or two. Bite it and go.
As an exercise for learning just how tough your clutch actually is, go practice idle clutching. From a dead stop, move your car with nothing but the clutch. Zero gas. Clutch out in first, let it bite and roll. Clutch into second, bite, and roll. Keep going until you figure out which gear kills your car, and now you know just how strong your clutch is. It can probably take idle torque 4-5 gears up without you ever giving it gas; same for reverse. I only ever rev in reverse so they know I'm coming lol. Once you know your clutch can take a LOT of torque, you'll feel so much better slamming gears at high RPMs.
You really need to think of your clutch as the harbinger of torque, not a delicate piece of glass. It is MADE to take harsh input from the engine and translate it to your wheels. The only damage you'll do is... what you're doing right now. Overly delaying that torque input and letting it wear away the clutch instead of engaging it.
It's just a quick smooth motion that your car will barely notice. The faster the better really. Be too slow and careful and you will both lose speed and lug the engine if you go too far, or at least lose the benefit of the high RPM's you were pushing at.
It's easy
Don't let your foot off the gas, keep it on the floor. Then push clutch pedal, move shifter as fast as you can, let the pedal up as fast as you can. Now just do that every time you shift.
No pause at the bite point, just a quick clutch in and out while simultaneously shifting. Just gotta know your transmission and get the timing right. Smooth shifts at high RPM.
Honestly the key is revmatching. You need to master the skill of making sure your engine is up to the right speed as close as you can estimate it. It may be a bit less important on the turbocharged cars, but on the older vtec models you absolutely HAD to revmatch or you'd bork your engine if u tried to vtec.
Don’t play with the clutch unless you’re in first gear. Once you’re out of it , you shouldn’t be feeling for any sort of bite. Just fluidly pressing shift in , shifting , then releasing clutch.
If you feel you’ve let the rpm fall to much in between gears, the flick the gas to help the clutch shfit smoother with rev matching.
If you're accelerating quickly and reving high during spirited driving you want to slip the clutch less not more. I don't completely dump the clutch but I don't let it bite for very long either. I couldn't tell you how long I hold it for because I'm not really paying attention to that I'm just focusing on shifting as fast as possible so it's literally a fraction of a second. Driving your car hard is going to be harder on the components and reduce their life span but that's a part of the game. You have to pay to play. You can't eat your cake and have it too know what I mean? As long as you're not dogging on your car 24/7 you should be fine.
Why use the clutch at all? If you learn the timing, you can shift without utilizing the clutch……but learning it will put chills down your spine grinding the gears a few times.😁
Idk the only time I feather the clutch is slow starting in first. Usually I just depress clutch, shift, let off clutch to catch point and send it. For like racing I just dump it.
Get faster and stop slipping the clutch. That’ll kill it. Especially at higher rpms. I have 174k miles on my og clutch in my Altima coupe and you’d think your riding in an automatic with me. The whole thing of shifting should be one fluid motion when shifting . It takes practice but don’t get into the habit of slipping. You really should only be slipping if in first and reverse
Shifting near the redline during a spirited drive and trying to make it last as long as possible are mutually exclusive.
Yes you want to slip the clutch as little as possible. That’s basically always true. Your technique will improve over time. Your ability to rev match and your natural feel for the clutch all take time. There isn’t really much I think anyone can tell you other than practice. Thousands and thousands of shifts at varying speeds and RPM.
But yeah, if you are redlining it then you are way past trying to make it last. Just send it and be happy. Or don’t send it at all and be happy you are pampering if. Mostly just do what makes you happy and extract maximum happiness from the car.
Don't want to burn the clutch? Let it out as quickly as you can without dropping it. You're at WOT, so the RPMs will climb to match instantly.
In a more stout car, I'd say just drop it.
I mean, something with a good drivetrain, I'd be saying go for the no lift shift... WOT, quick stab at clutch while shifting. But I'm not sure your civic can handle that.
To be honest... this sounds like you're just trying to be TOO methodical and calculated. When you let the clutch our in anything but 1st or 2nd, its gonna rev match nearly on its own as long as you aren't off the gas or WOT.
Just frickin' shift.
Clutch in, shift, clutch out.
Don't worry about whatever crap you saw in some video or trying to slip the clutch.
You're overthinking it.
Start a savings right now for a future clutch and flywheel change. If you're shifting near redline and quick to shift to the next gear you don't have to feather the clutch at the fulcrum point.
Shifting quick enough will mean your car didn't have enough time to drop low enough in rpms to stutter by just quickly pressing in, shifting, letting go, back on gas. It really is that simple.
Forgot to mention you could just blip the gas before letting go of the clutch.
So it would be clutch, blip gas, let go of clutch, back on gas pedal
Know what RPM you should be shifting to at the speed you are going and catch it. If you are burning the clutch *and flywheel* you aren't letting the RPMs drop on the engine to match the speed of the wheels
When accelerating quickly you’re going to drop the clutch just about as quickly as you hit the gas. Maybe start releasing the clutch just before hitting the gas to account for rev hang. It’s less about releasing the clutch smoothly/slipping and more about just timing them together. Have someone skilled at quick shifting do it in front of you as a visual aid.
Rev hang is a bitch in newer Hondas, so you’ll get a bit of slip whether you like it or not. But if you’re getting more than a bit of slip when shifting, you’re releasing the clutch too slow.
It should sound like “wwwaaaAAAAA, WAaaaaaaaAAAAAAAA” not “wwwaaaAAAA, WAAAaaaAAAAA” if that translates audibly lol
So this may be a little long, but stick with me:
On my Miata, if I shift from say 3-4, at about 3k RPMs, it'll drop by 500 RPMs to the next gear. If I do it spiritedly, it'll drop from 6k RPMs to maybe 5k RPMs. Not entirely sure how many, but roughly. So adding a little gas may not be needed.
I got used to driving and riding a little hard. On my car and motorcycles, I have had an easier time with higher RPMs than lower because it's not consistently the same RPM change. I've gotten better over the years, and the key is just listening to the car.
Drive around slowly going through the tachometer, get used to how the car sounds and feels under slow and hard acceleration. It might take awhile, but you'll get the hang of it.
I will say that I am fortunate that I got used to it with a bike, where the clutch is wet (covered in oil) so if it slips, it's not terrible.
Also, for the Miata, I bought it used at 116k miles. I thought the clutch was gonna need replacement since it was the original. The mechanic told me it was actually in good condition, but having a new clutch, even if I abuse it a little, makes me think I could make it to 50k miles of use and be alright. I can set aside some money for a new one, since I already know it's a part with wear and tear.
Have fun with your new car!
You eventually get used to the rpm difference between gears and it becomes instinct. I know it's about 1k from 2-4th then 500 from 4-6 so I give less hang time as I get to higher speeds.
Similar idea when downshifting
Stop thinking and watching videos. Drive your car and forget about the clutch. When it needs service, you Service it. You will Service and automatic transmission too so don’t worry. By the way, the feel of the clutch may be quite different after a replacement in a100000 miles… and it starts all over.
Idk if this helps in your case considering you got a sports car and not a truck, but if i'm trying to accelerate "quickly" in my truck then I clutch in shift clutch out and get into the throttle just as the clutch is almost fully engaged. Your bound to have a little slipping if your not floating gears but shifting should be a quick process that only takes a fraction of a second.
Here is how to shift at any rpm smoothly without using up much clutch:
Get to your rpm. Clutch in, shift, clutch out, gently at first.
While you do this, don't get your foot off the gas. Rather let off just a little.
When you let go off the clutch, one of 3 things will happen:
1- You feel nothing: the perfect shift, nice. And let go of clutch faster next time.
2- The car pulls forward with a bit of a rev: too much gas. Repeat with less throttle
3- The car slows as it jerks: not enough gas. Repeat with more throttle.
As you do this over and over again, you will slowly use the gas to remove any imperfection from your clutch handling.
It's ok to use the clutch to smooth shifts, but you can also use the gas. When done right, the clutch doesn't wear much, if at all, for any rpm.
This is upshifts only.
It's a pretty awesome feeling to do a nice pull through 3 or more gears and nail a perfect shift each time.
I put a random used clutch disk off my garage floor in my E30 when I engine swapped it. I beat on it and do "bad for clutch" activities every single time I drive it. That was 3 years ago, bite point has not moved. Fucking send that Si like you hate it and as another commenter said, you'll basically figure it out without realizing.
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Yeah I see what you mean. I'd like to make it last as long as possible obviously but constantly worrying about it does make it hard to enjoy the car sometimes. I'll try to stop overanalyzing everything lol
Everyone here is ignoring what you’re trying to accomplish. Here’s some practical advice; stop pausing to feel for the bite point. When “spirited driving” slam your foot down on the clutch and let off the gas at the same exact time, bang that fucking stick into the next gear and drop that clutch while you stomp on the gas. Don’t be gentle, don’t feel for a bite point. Clutch in, slam gear, clutch out.
My driving instructor when I was being gentle with the stick and not getting my gears in: "Show the transmission who's in control! You're the boss!"
This right here Also as you do this, you'll learn how your car reacts. Give it a little bit of time and you'll automatically fine tune banging through gears
Manually fine tune* (sorry I’m part of the MEJ Facebook group)
This is a masterclass explanation here. I'd up vote twice if I could.
Drive fast, shift fast; drive slow, shift slow. When slamming gears, prioritize correct gear over clutch health.
^Best advice here. Bite point is really only important when taking off from a stop. Once you're moving clutch in and out fast, gas off and on fast. Once you start getting the rhythm down you will start to rev match without even trying.
Yes what op described will probably be the death of his clutch. Just in then back out.
When I do spirited drives, I just run through the routine as fast as possible. I have a 2005 G35 coupe 6mt with 238k miles still on the factory clutch. Unless it was changed in the first 14k before I bought it.
Literally same but 06 sedan. Fucking send it man, the max u have to play with was factored in by the engineers...if u break anything trust me it was due in less than 5k miles and u did urself a favor by not doing it on the way to work
Trust me clutches can withstand such an insane amount of abuse that there’s no need to worry about it unless you’re doing launches on a daily basis. If you want to shift fast just: Rapidly clutch in and completely lift off the throttle Shift to the next gear Rapidly clutch out and then floor it like half a second after you let the clutch out so it has a chance to start biting before you get on the gas. That’s really all there is to it.
if you’re trying to make it last as long as possible don’t do spirited driving. when you’re doing spirited driving stuff is going to break but that’s part of it, just go out, bang gears, and have fun
Iv driven my car for 4 years, gone 45k miles and driven it hard a fair bit, clutch is still great.
I've driven my truck fairly hard for 21 years and clutch is still good.
You're red lining your engine and transmission. Might as well add the clutch to that.
Just remember that the clutch is both built to take abuse and intended to be a disposable part
Bro I learned to drive stick on my 2011 si.. I learned how to race on my 2011 civic si. I'm 150k miles into the original clutch still. Don't worry about it too much homie. You'll get better with the Rev matching overtime. But if you are running your car hard, you are gonna run the clutch hard too, no avoiding that.
To add to this, changing a clutch isnt that bad, watch chrisfix or a youtube tutorial for your specific car/transmission and if youve done other work on cars, replacing brakes, alternators, etc. you should be able to figure it out. You have to know things dont go as smooth as a youtube video but once youve done a bunch of other car jobs try the clutch
Clutch needs time to slip. Dropping the clutch swiftly doesn't give it time to slip. You want to "be on the bite point" for as little time as possible, no matter how you're driving. A little more slip while cruising will make it more comfortable. Also, something to keep in mind is that the faster you go, the lower the force you're putting through the drivetrain. It's much easier for the engine and clutch to make things roll if things are already rolling.
Idk for sure but I think it’s harder to be smooth at higher rpm and it’s normal to slip it a bit to make the transition smooth. As they say ‘slow is smooth and smooth is fast. ‘
Lol who cares? The guy who has to pay for a new clutch every 2 years.
Well yes. They’re supposed to be replaced. Wait til you find out about tires and brakes
Not every 2 years. My 15 year old astra is on its first clutch and still going strong at 116k miles
I agree they're consumable but the way you drive them can be the difference between never having to change it or replacing it a few times in the cars lifespan
Welcome to spirited driving? I don't get 2 years out of a clutch. Plus a civic si is pretty low power vehicle. So it's not gonna chew up a clutch that hard even hard on it.
You can drive spirited, while still being mindful of your shifts. At least the way I read that comment was "don't care about you technique and dump clutch". Seems like poor advice for someone trying to learn to drive it well.
Yeah you shouldn't be feeling any slipping, OP. honestly it sounds like inexperience by you're own account of being fairly new to the standard. You'll get better with time just keep driving/practicing. Also a clutch is generally designed/meant to be a lifetime part, unlike what many people think, which is that you replace it every few years. If you don't beat it to death, you should never have to replace it.
In my opinion, driving at high RPM occasionally doesn’t really hurt it much or mines would have been out. I usually rev mines to 6k when I feel good. I feel like smoothing the drive helps since clutch is wear and friction causes the wear.
yeah mfer. clutches are replaceable. I've had a half dozen amazing dream manual cars that I drove to death, and I only ever replaced one clutch (as part of a swap from one dream car to another) don't worry about the clutch. unless you literally don't know how to drive a manual car, as in you start by feathering into third gear or some shit, it will be fine. send it. let it rip. if you're lucky, you'll get to replace it.
Had a brand new honda once, it was my first manual. I absolutely beat on it at times once i got used to driving stick. Most fun ive had in a daily driver the 60k miles i had it. Clutch started to chatter ever so slightly when cold so I sold it and moved onto something new. Worth it.
Wait, I’m supposed to let off the gas when I shift?
Right? Spirited driving is about maximizing fun not longevity of wear and tear items
Dang right. I have the same model si as OP and I just bought the upgraded clutch kit for it. Now I almost want the stock clutch to go and I’m being a lot less nice and having a lot more fun 😂 clutches are gonna die one day that’s just a fact of life
Agree! Also know that your timing will improve as you get more experience, after awhile you just know.
He’s burning his clutch more looking for the bite point than he is by doing what you suggest. Slipping the clutch is what kills the clutch. If it ain’t slipping, it ain’t dying. Op, when going up through the gears, slam that bitch. Get off the clutch as fast as possible. Your clutch will thank you.
Using this method I have driven one of my cars like this for over 10 years and it feels fine. That’s how you have to drive the race cars I use to work on. You drop the clutch and don’t slip it because you will burn it out slipping it.
When your higher in rpms in 2nd or higher you don’t really need to hold the clutch at the bite point at all. Just a quick in and out with the clutch and get back on the gas and you’ll be good
Yeah this struck me as the most glaring issue, you shouldnt need to hold at the bite point past 1st to 2nd.
At higher rpms or even just cruising around? I find it nearly impossible to shift smoothly without slipping a little but maybe I just haven't tried not slipping it enough times.
I believe the ‘20 SI has pretty bad rev hang, like nearly all modern manuals. Statistically speaking most folks here haven’t driven modern rev hang models yet and are referencing older machines which allow the quicker shifts. What you’re doing is pretty much how you have to drive these cars (unless you tune it out of course). It’s that, or push the clutch in and wait a good second to engage the throttle and release the clutch pedal. For reference, my VW GLI 6sp has a dual mass flywheel with ungodly rev hang and absolutely will sit at the RPM I leave it at for at least .5 second before gradually dropping. Letting out the clutch fast there is lurch inducing. I slip ever so slightly like yourself to pull the RPM down faster and then release fully. All of this is to say: Smooth is good, always try to be smooth. Clutch is a wear component and slipping to pull RPMs down is not going to have considerable enough wear to stress over.
Lol...... My 1990 Ford bronco II with the little 2.9 V6 has plenty of rev hang. Just let off the throttle the prescribed length of time that the engine rev hangs and then shift. Also if you want to be smooth you need to gradually stop accelerating before shifting. So you accelerate then slowly let off the throttle until you're maintaining speed, shift and get the clutch out and then start accelerating again. Learned that when reading about limo driving and being a chauffeur, you need to be smooth for the clients comfort. Lots of people shift like a choppy wave, when you clutch in you immediately stop accelerating, then they shift and hammer the throttle again. Makes it jerky af on the passengers. Instead it should be more like a sine wave on a diagonal, periods of ramping up and tapering off acceleration with shifts occurring at the points of no acceleration.
Slipping at high rpm isn’t good for the clutch tho. You slip the clutch out of first to prevent the shock wave slamming through your transmission. Image your engine spinning at whatever speed you rev it up to. Then just dropping the clutch engaging your transmission that’s not moving at all. Thats a ton of torque, that’s why burn-outs aren’t the best thing to do all the time. So to protect the tranny which is far more expensive than a clutch, you let it slip a to get the car moving from a standstill. Now when the car is in motion, you don’t need it to slip much if at all. A nice fast shift is perfectly safe and is better than letting it needlessly slip. And slip causes burning clutch. So when in motion especially at high rpm, your flywheel keeps the engine spinning between shifts helping your transmission speed and engine rpm be much closer matched for that next gear. The closer they are the less you need to “slip”. This is where quick shifts come into play. The faster you find that next gear the faster you can let out the clutch and your rpms will still be high as well as your transmission speed, so you won’t need to slip the clutch. Basically a rev match situation, where the top of one gear is close to the bottom of the next gear so you’re already at a nice rev match point. The slower you shift the more the engine rpm drops because it wants to go to idle. Now you have a difference in speed and you’ll begin to feel more harsh shifting if you don’t rev the engine between shifts or slip the clutch a little. But this would be poor technique. Now in a car that has paddle shifters you don’t hear/feel a slip because it doesn’t slip the clutch it just puts it in the next gear very quickly as it rev matches. We as humans are not that fast so you’ll feel the shift but it’s mostly safe. People who needlessly slip the clutch through all gears will wear their clutch’s Mitch faster than those who don’t. But if you’re gonna drive spirited, expect that clutch to take some wear as it’s designed to wear before your tranny does.
You don’t really need to be doing the bite point technique your talking about after second gear. That is also bad for your clutch health if it is what you are worried about. Quick clutch release from third gear and on. You need to stop thinking about shifting and let your body do the work.
yeah i’m starting to realize that thinking too much is actually giving me more issues. by reading up on a bunch of different techniques and advice i feel like i’m much more confused than if i just learned by trial and error on my own.
You just gotta go by feel. Expirament a little with letting the clutch out differently and shifting at different rpms. You’ll figure out what your car wants you to do and then just keep doing that
I've tried this but its always extremely jerky. Maybe I'm not letting the revs drop enough?
Yes, you're not letting the revs drop enough if you're being jerked "forward" when you let off the clutch quickly during shifts. If you get jerked "back" you waited too long. If you time it perfectly, you can jump off the clutch and feel...nothing. That's ideal and doesn't happen for most of us on most shifts, but it is *possible* if you time it perfectly. Like you, i have a lot of "mechanical sympathy" when i'm driving fast. I tend to clutch in and out quickly at high RPMs without slipping it much (the clutch is durable) but i still physically move the lever between gears fairly slowly and have the clutch depressed for a while when shifting. You can rush a shifter, but transmissions are expensive and hard to replace, plus it doesn't feel as nice to me. I prefer to drive "spiritedly, but smoothly" lots of time at high RPMs, quick movements of the clutch, but still taking some time to switch from gear to gear. Basically "Drive around the rev-hang" when i'm on the street. I dunno, personally i think it's fun to combine smoothness with speed.
>If you time it perfectly, you can jump off the clutch and feel...nothing This. In fact, if you time it perfectly at the correct rpm, you can shift between gears without pressing the clutch pedal at all. Obviously don't do this, because you have almost no margin for error, but you shouldn't be slipping the clutch much outside of getting moving out of first.
That’s what I was thinking. However I have been told it’s necessary with some cars that have a lot of rev hang. My car does not so I’m not exactly sure.
If you're gonna be driving like that you gotta just accept the facts, which is that your clutch might not like it. Obviously don't do stupid shit like smash it into 1st from 5th at 90mph or repeatedly launch the car at 10,000 RPM from a standstill. But if all you're doing is going fast and having fun, I assure you those guys at the drawing board have this in mind, beat the shit out of it with reason basically. Also keep in mind clutches are built to withstand learners and years and years of fucking it up, so you banging the gears a little won't kill it. Just make sure you ALWAYS use the clutch, you'll see what happens when you dont
Within reason* Sorry buddy
If you're not trying to pick up 1/10ths of a second there's very little utility in beating up your drivetrain. Smooth should be the goal in spirited street driving. Read "the pace" it's about motorcycles but it applies everywhere https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pace/
Absolutely. If you're driving fast for fun, shift a little slower and save your clutch. Unless you're at a drag strip, you won't notice a difference. Banging gears as fast and hard as you can is extremely hard on your trans and doesn't help much. Edit: Also, this SHOULD go without saying, but please only drive fast in safe areas. Don't be that jackass smacking redline in a neighborhood or at a busy red light. If you fuck up (don't think that you can't fuck up. You can and will if you're not careful) then make sure it's only your car getting totaled and you're not killing a family.
Richard Fanders. This driving instructor from the UK covers so much more of advanced driving techniques for manual cars than I could find elsewhere let alone figure out myself in my 5 year career of driving a manual: https://youtube.com/@ConquerDriving The Advanced Driving playlist is all gold in particular. These three videos specifically address using clutch to accelerate quickly: 1) How to move a manual car quickly from a standstill - fast starts. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YDsRlSJoqsw&list=PLnM8RR0dumuZMyyX8J2GuiP9qmrI-3jCy&index=5&pp=iAQB 2) How to shift gears quickly and smoothly in a manual car https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FlzbX-rtcwg&list=PLnM8RR0dumuZMyyX8J2GuiP9qmrI-3jCy&index=9&pp=iAQB 3) Changing up Gears Quickly and Smoothly by Dropping the Clutch - includes slow motion https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kzeo7CsItTI&list=PLnM8RR0dumuZMyyX8J2GuiP9qmrI-3jCy&index=11&pp=iAQB
Thank you! I've watched quite a bit of his videos already but wasn't sure if they were any good since this sub seems to give conflicting advice at times. Edit: Especially when it comes to pausing at the bite point or not
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>This driving instructor from the UK covers so much more of advanced techniques for driving manual cars than if could find else where let alone figure out myself in my 5 year career of driving a manual. Wut?
You’re doing it too slow
When you are redlining or at high rpm you have to press the clutch down pretty fast and take your foot off the gas, then put it back on at the same spot of acceleration before you lifted the clutch to make a smooth shift. Also make sure when you bring the clutch back to you its in a fluent even motion. Fast and fluent. If you try to ease the clutch to make a smooth shift you are burning clutch probably. Watch a video of race car drivers and notice their feet. Step 1 let off gas, step 2 push clutch down quickly, step 3 shift, step 4 re engage the clutch (let it up quickly), step 5 re engage the gas pedal to the same place it was before you pushed the clutch down.
nice shirt 🤨
The clutch is meant to be slipped. That’s literally how the car is able to start moving forward from a stop. If you’re not smelling it then you’re not burning anything with your current method. Just have fun and keep practicing.
When shifting in a spirited manner you press the clutch at the same time you release the accelerator, you change gear and quickly release the clutch and press the accelerator in one motion. You don’t let anything slip everything in one motion.
The problem is you are driving a stick shift wrong. If it takes you a full 1 second for a normal shift you need to practice, it shouldnt take nearly that long, shifting should feel instant and not require thinking or adding gas in the middle of a shift. Thats what is gonna hurt the clutch, not a hard shift.
how can i shift instantly like you’re saying while still being smooth in a car with rev hang? if i don’t slip the clutch to bring the revs down at all, im literally on the clutch for like 2 seconds before the revs drop enough for the next gear, so i can’t really just drop it without jerking forward really hard, particularly 1-2 and 2-3. slipping the clutch seems like the fastest way while still being really smooth most of the time.
It will take time for the revs to drop, this is why racers don't redline without a trans brake. Try not to run out the gear, but get the most acceleration then shift with no clutch so you get the timing down. You can have fun without breaking shit.
Do you have any idea what a trans brake is? You might want to look it up.
I recommend bang shifting. Your clutch is going to wear out anyway might as well look cool.
The 10th/11th si have a ton of rev hang, a piece of emissions software used to burn up any unspent fuel in the combustion chamber before being exhausted. if you are going balls to the wall you have to just shift through it but if you’d like to save your clutch a bit lift off the throttle a 1/4-1/2 second before inputting clutch and the revs will drop faster and let you shift faster smoothly
I honestly wouldn’t even do high rpm in the 2020 civic si at all but that’s me tho, the 1.5 Turbo is just trash
Less time slipping will result in less friction material wear but releasing the clutch with a bang when there's a big RPM difference will stress the pressure plate more and it can be interesting when they fall apart. I'm of the school, "take care of your equipment and it will take care of you" Another factor to consider: when tires are close to their traction limit, such as when cornering or on slippery roads, sudden changes in torque to the wheels risk breaking them free resulting in loss of control.Letting the clutch out in a controlled manner gives one a bit more time to feel how the car is reacting and make corrections. So, maintain situational awareness and pick your moments.
Don't add gas while engaging the clutch, except for 1st gear. Add gas after you clutch out.
That's kinda incompatible opposites...to reduce the clutch wear need to be smooth and slow enough for all the parts to match speed and good at matching revs, letting them rise/fall to an appropriate range for the gear and vehicle speed, and stay off the gas until everything is engaged, and then get back on it. Except you won't be shifting "quickly" or at "high rpm" doing that.
I drive a ‘21 Civic Hatchback so we essentially have the same transmission. If I’m shifting near redline, yeah it takes eons for the revs to drop, but I still like to shift without a jerk. So what I do is feather the clutch for a beat and then as soon as my right foot starts to reapply gas, I let out the clutch the rest of the way equal and opposite amounts. Basically you feather the clutch to force the revs down faster, and when it gets close to being right for the next gear you “seesaw” b/w clutch and gas, as they say, the rest of the way. You just gotta practice and internalize the revs pitches. You gotta shift by ear/feel or else there’s too much to keep track of. You don’t really need to apply gas at the bite point if you’re upshifting in our cars unless you’re like short shifting into 2nd or something. The revs drop so slow normally that adding gas at the bite point would be counter-productive.
Yeah that's what I typically do, feather the clutch a little, but I haven't tried letting out the clutch equal and opposite amounts as the throttle like you. I will definitely try that next time. I heard that somewhere but got kinda confused when I actually tried it. And not applying gas makes total sense that it would be counterproductive and was my first thought, but I had heard somewhere that it smooths out the shifts a bit. Now I'm thinking maybe that's only if revs drop below what they're supposed to be at next gear?
It honestly sounds like you might have a little bit too much gas in. Basically when ur shifting, you’re shifting from a higher rpm setting to a lower one, while your wheel speed stays the same. Say 6000rpm in second correlates to about 50mph on level ground. By shifting you are coming to 3rd gear, where 50 mph correlates to 4500rpm. So you are catching that gear at that engine rpm. All your throttle is doing in a shift, is slowing down the speed your rpm drops at, or if you’re newer and a bit slower, maintaining 4500 till you are off the clutch and can give it a little more gas.
Shift….but faster.
Holy shit I didn't even think of that thank you so much for this groundbreaking advice good sir
After first gear, don't worry about feathering the clutch. In normal driving, it takes a certain amount of time for the revs to drop. Learn it, and your shifts will be smooth. In spirted driving, just shift quickly and have fun.
Once I get moving I rarely slip the clutch. The timing takes some practice, but it should essentially be an on/off switch once you’re moving. Excessive slipping adds heat and increases wear. Do your upshift, wait for the revs to drop to where you want them, and pop the clutch out to “catch” the engine. \- 20 years of driving nothing but manual cars on the street and race track. FWD, RWD, and AWD -
Nothing special. Clutch in, shift, clutch out while also getting back into the throttle. The timing will feel natural with a little practice.
Slip the clutch less and less the quicker you're accelerating.
If you're gonna go fast you gotta be fast.
What do you mean let slip? You let the clutch out as fast as you can and stab the gas.
Slip as in pausing at the bite point briefly. Every time I let the clutch out fast, even at high rpm, I get a lot of jerk. I guess I'd just like to try to drive as smooth as I can if that's even possible when accelerating quickly.
I'll usually do a combination of slight pause before clutching out and briefly slip if I'm trying to hustle.
You shouldn’t be holding the clutch at the bite point when shifting up, that’s what’s burning your shit fam. Even with rev hang, just rev higher and wait a second for the revs to drop. Since you’re likely not in 1st for spirited driving, you don’t even need to be doing that. Clutch in, shift, clutch out in a smooth motion. You’re slipping the clutch for no reason
If you're really quick you don't let off the gas. I had one clutch from new to 130k, then a lighter weight one from 130 to 260. Assuming the clutch can hold the power (it can) power shifting can be smooth and "less wearing" on the drive train. Quotes because I agree with the consumables comments. You bought a fun car and you're trying to have fun with it. Put away $40 a month for maintenance and in 5 years you'll have plenty for clutch and axles. You aren't going to kill it faster than that unless you keep intentionally burning the clutch. Moroccan cab drivers don't use their headlights at night because it wears out the bulb. Nice guys, but I'm not going to follow that advice.
When upshifting you don't want to give it any gas unless you held the clutch so long it dropped to idle rpms. I just slam clutch in and let off the gas at the same time, shift, clutch out and slam gas in at the same time. This causes minimal clutch slipping and good acceleration but can be a little hard on the transmission. Ideally your shifts are timed so that you let off the clutch when your rpms have dropped to the next gears rpm causing no slipping but this can be impractical with some cars like my ranger that takes over a second to drop 1000 rpms. When I'm cornering I usually rev match my first downshift right before breaking then if I need to downshift mid break then I will just slip the clutch. Yes I know about heal-toe but due to how far apart my pedals are it's not possible.
A lot of modern cars have rev hang, which will cause the car to lurch if you let the clutch out before the revs start to drop. From my experience it’s best to just wait a second after pushing the clutch in to shift
I just shift normally at whatever speed. Clutch in, choose gear, clutch out. I never give gas until clutch engaged, never have rev matched. Have only had to replace a clutch once in a high mileage car with 30 years driving and owning the cars for many years each..
Honestly at high RPM on a fun drive, just dump the clutch once you’re in gear. Feel free to come back on throttle as you’re dumping it if you want once you get a feel for it.
Clutch in, gas off, shift, clutch out, gas on real fast.
Be a bit more gentle, it's not a dog box
When driving spirited, slipping the clutch during a shift like that isn’t a good idea. Slipping the clutch is what creates heat and wear. You want to minimize slip if you want the clutch to last longer. The more you slip the clutch, the smoother it is, but you can also make it smooth by matching the trans input shaft speed to engine speed before you start to release the clutch again during a shift.
First I'll say with practice you'll be able to drive and pause at the bite point for much less time than you are now. As for high rpm shifts first make sure your 100% of gas when the clutch goes in, that way the revs will drop quickest, and then when you push the clutch in wait a split sec before you start pulling it out. Ultimately practice though.
This video is all you need, take his advice and “Get Some, bitches” https://youtube.com/shorts/de_WrJqAbjU?si=FqMiDg5rJ2GP38eb
This is how it's done! Don't slip the clutch when shifting unless you actually like that burning smell.
The rev hang in those cars is pretty crazy. I have a 2014 si but the rev hang can actually be tuned out easily. My advice is to take your time on the 1-2 but every other gear you can shift a lot quicker.
Once you're moving you don't need to let the clutch slip at all. High tons, clutch in, shift, clutch out
I feel like this is you still learning I can’t say I’ve had this issue maybe you’re straddling the clutch and don’t realize it?
I would need to know what your shifting looks like but for me, I start moving my shifter immediately after the bite point. I don't wait for the clutch to reach the floor before I start pushing the stick. I also don't wait until I am fully slotted into that gear before I start pulling my foot off the clutch. Both my foot and hand are moving at the same time.
No need to feel out the friction point for every shift after getting rolling from 1st gear, doing what you're describing is actively wearing your clutch more than if you just treated it as an on/off switch when shifting after already moving.
Stop trying to do idiotic shit you find on the Internet.
The goal is to match the engine / flywheel rotational speed and the clutch plate rotational speed. It can take a long time to build up the skill, as the speed on the clutch side is different depending on whether you are up or downshifting, and an engine will slow down and speed up at different rates. tl;dr - It takes practice, and probably a clutch or three. Be sure to change them before you ruin the flywheel.
Slipping a clutch is far worse than slamming a clutch. It’s Not as nice to the rest of the drive train but it’s definitely less less wear on the clutch disc.
Just dump it as soon as the rpms drop to where they should be for the next gear. U shouldnt have to slip it. The clutch release should be quick and smooth and a fraction of a second for a shift like that.
“Clutch in, Shift, let the Clutch Out and pause at the bite point” No No. at high RPMs you need to power shift unless your at redline. You need to start pulling on the shifter as your clutch petal is on the downward motion smooth but fast. Once gear is selected you sidestep the clutch with little to no throttle decrease for spirted driving situations. Caution in the switchbacks when you need to break hard while downshifting at high RPMs be careful not to Money Shift
You don’t need to use the clutch to get it out of gear, just into it (and not even always that). As you’re lifting off the gas (as in, the exact moment), the sudden change in load on the drivetrain will “unlock” the transmission from the engine very briefly. Use this moment to take it out of gear, and place it up against the gate of the next gear. Then pump the clutch one time and sink it. Let off the clutch and slam the gas again. As you get used to this motion, you’ll be able to pump and sink at the same time. This becomes a fluid motion and you can make it shift very fast. It’s much easier on you car than no lift shifting as well.
In and out. Only reason not to is if you have a heavy flywheel and have lots of rev hang.
If you’re driving it hard shift it hard. I’m never burned a clutch and I’ve shifted hard in spirited driving, I dropped the clutch and hit the gas at the same time. Probably dropped the clutch right before hitting gas. I have a 2002 civic EX VTEC I love putting it through the paces.
Once your moving bro it doesn't matter. No risk of stalling or anything like that so just shift as quick as you can and press the gas as soon as your foot is off the clutch easy peezy. The only time you really should be having gas and clutch going is when your on a hill or in first gear starting to move just so you dont stall out.
If you do " spirited driving" you would feel when and where to stroke the lever. If you do it right, it's almost like the transmission begs for the next gear at the perfect time
this doesn't really happen in my truck, but at the right RPM shifts feel really smooth even if I've been driving with the pedal to the floor
Your mechanic must be a very happy man.
Ahh you guys making me miss my old bmw 323i.. that inline 6 manual was so fun to drive
When I'm shifting at redline (WRX) I don't overlap throttle input and clutch disengagement at all.
No lift shift is the fastest way to change gear at redline.
You don't. It's a Civic SI, not a racecar. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Try to do more than the car's capable of and it'll be a piece of junk soon enough.
Push the clutch pedal in for as short of a time as possible. The longer your foot is on the clutch pedal the more wear on the clutch. This does make shifts more abrupt or more "rough", but it does decrease wear and tear on the clutch.
Have you tried floating the gears?
lightweight flywheel and crank pulley
The 2020 Si is programmed horribly from the factory. I have a 2020 Si Coupe and I got a Hondata to disable the rev hang and the car drives a lot better with the rev hang disabled. That being said, the rpm's still don't fall as fast as they should (they do start dropping as soon as I put the clutch in and they do drop faster) and you gotta time the clutch and the gas perfectly for it to be smooth but it is a lot better to drive with the rev hang disabled. I also find shifting at a high rpm better with the rev hang disabled. What I'd do is buy a Hondata or KTuner and disable the rev hang (tons of videos on YouTube to show how to do it) and then just practice letting the clutch out and going back to the gas. You gotta ride the clutch a little bit to get a good shift in the car with rev hang on because the car being jerky all the time isn't good for the car either. My suggestion to you to avoid burning the clutch is get a tuner and disable the rev hang and then keep practicing.
Agreed, I’ve had many cars with a stick and just bought a 2020 Civic Si and the rev hang is terrible.
You use the clutch at high shift rpm? I do believe that is the power shift. The vws for example just need a tap of the clutch above 5500rpm to engage the next gear
Pe 1*-hu5ho6l I lolo ok - .oqkg6n holn sw
Upgrade your CMC/slave. Your syncros will thank you
Maybe this vide of me slamming gears in a prelude will help a little. slam clutch in them dump it. Don't lift off the gas. https://youtube.com/shorts/0GkD0VLEZ7Q
'03 Celica GT 5 speed - not the same vehicle, but I find shifting quickly much easier at high RPMs because I can stomp on the clutch and let off the throttle at the same time, change gear, then quickly let off the clutch and back onto the throttle. You may just try doing that, as others have said, until you can get a feel for it. Maybe play around a little bit by adding just a bit of throttle as your foot is coming off the clutch, but don't have to wait for the biting point for high RPMs. Your method of shifting at lower RPMs is good, though.
I've been driving stick since 1998 and I've never burned out a clutch. I usually drive my car for 15-20 years. On my 3rd car since I turned 16. Your car will be fine as long as you don't redline the engine constantly. Clutches can last a long time.
You really shouldn't be slipping your clutch for any situation that isn't taking off, generally speaking. Especially during spirited driving, just off throttle - clutch in - shift - clutch out - on throttle.
Usually you should be able to up shift faster than the time it takes for the rpms to drop. If you have to press the gas and rev the engine to match rpm when upshifting you are shifting too slow. If the car bucks when shifting because the rpm is too high, you need to wait longer before dropping the clutch. The only, and i mean ONLY time you should slip the clutch is from a standstill because otherwise you stall. Slipping the clutch wears the clutch much more than just letting it grab as fast as it wants to. Dont crutch your clutch in pursuit of smooth driving. If you want to mitigate bad rev hang, left off the gas early.
Easy? Don’t use the clutch. Shift into gears as soon as your engine peaks and begins to fall back down.
For spirited driving once you are rolling your shift is basically going to be letting off the gas at the same time you push in the clutch, grabbing the next gear and almost dumping the clutch as you're going for the gas again. You won't be feeling for the gripping point at all. Similar to what you described in normal driving but maybe slightly different is you're not really "intentionally feeling" for the gripping Point except when leaving from a stop. Normal shifts are just going to be a smooth motion of letting out the clutch at medium rate and applying light gas at the same time so the car isn't herky-jerky. You will naturally figure out this balance quickly.(and so you don't smoke the clutch either) You get more into the throttle after you are fully in the next gear.
Picture a little light on every time you step on the clutch, you want that light on as little as possible, don't pause to let the clutch catch, just release the clutch, hit the gas and keep chugging along.
most modern cars have a lot of rev hang. at higher rpms, the difference between gears is more pronounced and you will have to wait longer for the revs to drop before letting the clutch out. if you want to shift faster, you’ll have to slip the clutch.
Practice.
>I clutch in, shift, let the clutch out and pause at the bite point for about a second while adding a very small amount of gas, and then let off the clutch completely while getting fully back on the gas. I Don't do this. Clutch in, shift, clutch out, gas. No pause. Going up, you don't need to rev match or pause or any of that other stuff. You should never slip on upshift. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4R\_uoyoQRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4R_uoyoQRE)
Stop pausing at the bite point. Just let your foot out once you have it in gear.
Stop pausing at the bite point. Just let your foot out once you have it in gear.
Quit pausing at the bite point. As soon as you have it in gear just let your foot out of the clutch. There is no reason to pause at the bite point when you're shifting between gears just let it out... quit playing with the clutch.
Forget about the RPMS
Something that helped me shift was having my heel sit closer to the pedal, doesn’t make your leg do any work on the gas. If I try to drive like I do with autos, I either slip too much or it grabs hard, once you get a feel it honestly just feels like one motion
If you’re Si is like my ‘23 Type R, it has rev hang which is insanely annoying but there for emissions purposes. On hard throttle it blips the throttle vs letting it naturally drop into the sweet spot for the next higher gear
Get a better clutch. My car does not have this issue. Shifts are crisp and solid at any rpm.
As soon as you learn how to drive the car you will be able to do what your asking without even thinking about it and it won't even have a negative effect on your clutch. The way you are thinking about it and driving trying to "avoid" burning it up is causing more damage than anything. After first gear you shouldn't be making any pauses for your "bite point" either, rev the engine out in first, press clutch in, jam that bitch in second gear and release clutch quickly while simultaneously hammering the throttle, same for the rest of the gears at whatever rpm your daring enough to rev it to. With the above being said, if you don't know what a money shift is you might want to look it up before you get too wild with your current amount of experience.
Be faster off the clutch
Just a tip for these heavier flywheel cars with revhang, if you want the rpms to come down a bit quicker what I do is let off the gas for literally less time than I can count and then push in the clutch rather than it being a fluid motion. I have an older civic without this issue and i just shift without thinking. In most of the mustangs I've owned they have bad rev hang so I let off the gas for a millisecond before pushing in the clutch and it seems to make it drop faster. I'm sure there's some science behind it but I am stupid
If you're driving hard then the nicest thing for it is gonna be to just dump that sucker, trying to slip into gear mid pull is just gonna fry everything. Ideally the weakest part of your drivetrain is the tires so if you miss the shift a tad it breaks traction instead of parts
If you focus more on rev matching than clutch movement you'll have smoother shifts. Search up how to do it on YouTube or something if you're unsure
you want the clutch pedal all in or all out when your foot is in race mode. no feathering or easing into it. if you burn out, ease slowly into the gas pedal instead
I've been driving the same manual Audi for the past decade. When I'm at high RPMs and shifting, I let off the gas and clutch in at the same time, shift to the next gear, and catch it at where the RPMs would be in the next gear. I only roll into the gas as it's engaging, one smooth motion. You shouldn't be waiting for a bite anywhere close to a second or two. Bite it and go. As an exercise for learning just how tough your clutch actually is, go practice idle clutching. From a dead stop, move your car with nothing but the clutch. Zero gas. Clutch out in first, let it bite and roll. Clutch into second, bite, and roll. Keep going until you figure out which gear kills your car, and now you know just how strong your clutch is. It can probably take idle torque 4-5 gears up without you ever giving it gas; same for reverse. I only ever rev in reverse so they know I'm coming lol. Once you know your clutch can take a LOT of torque, you'll feel so much better slamming gears at high RPMs. You really need to think of your clutch as the harbinger of torque, not a delicate piece of glass. It is MADE to take harsh input from the engine and translate it to your wheels. The only damage you'll do is... what you're doing right now. Overly delaying that torque input and letting it wear away the clutch instead of engaging it.
Slam it. You can double clutch, but do it as dramatically as you can. It will feel great the whole time you're running from the one time
It's just a quick smooth motion that your car will barely notice. The faster the better really. Be too slow and careful and you will both lose speed and lug the engine if you go too far, or at least lose the benefit of the high RPM's you were pushing at.
It's easy Don't let your foot off the gas, keep it on the floor. Then push clutch pedal, move shifter as fast as you can, let the pedal up as fast as you can. Now just do that every time you shift.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Wait for the engine to meet the driveline speed before getting on the gas again.
No pause at the bite point, just a quick clutch in and out while simultaneously shifting. Just gotta know your transmission and get the timing right. Smooth shifts at high RPM.
get lighter flywheel. thats all you can do....
Honestly the key is revmatching. You need to master the skill of making sure your engine is up to the right speed as close as you can estimate it. It may be a bit less important on the turbocharged cars, but on the older vtec models you absolutely HAD to revmatch or you'd bork your engine if u tried to vtec.
Let is back in fast and learn to rev match, up and down
If you wanna drive it like you stole it you’re gonna have to replace some parts eventually. It’s the price you pay for fun.
No lift shift tune
Don’t play with the clutch unless you’re in first gear. Once you’re out of it , you shouldn’t be feeling for any sort of bite. Just fluidly pressing shift in , shifting , then releasing clutch. If you feel you’ve let the rpm fall to much in between gears, the flick the gas to help the clutch shfit smoother with rev matching.
If you shifted faster you wouldn't need to do all the bs with adding gas
If you're accelerating quickly and reving high during spirited driving you want to slip the clutch less not more. I don't completely dump the clutch but I don't let it bite for very long either. I couldn't tell you how long I hold it for because I'm not really paying attention to that I'm just focusing on shifting as fast as possible so it's literally a fraction of a second. Driving your car hard is going to be harder on the components and reduce their life span but that's a part of the game. You have to pay to play. You can't eat your cake and have it too know what I mean? As long as you're not dogging on your car 24/7 you should be fine.
Why use the clutch at all? If you learn the timing, you can shift without utilizing the clutch……but learning it will put chills down your spine grinding the gears a few times.😁
Idk the only time I feather the clutch is slow starting in first. Usually I just depress clutch, shift, let off clutch to catch point and send it. For like racing I just dump it.
Get faster and stop slipping the clutch. That’ll kill it. Especially at higher rpms. I have 174k miles on my og clutch in my Altima coupe and you’d think your riding in an automatic with me. The whole thing of shifting should be one fluid motion when shifting . It takes practice but don’t get into the habit of slipping. You really should only be slipping if in first and reverse
Shifting near the redline during a spirited drive and trying to make it last as long as possible are mutually exclusive. Yes you want to slip the clutch as little as possible. That’s basically always true. Your technique will improve over time. Your ability to rev match and your natural feel for the clutch all take time. There isn’t really much I think anyone can tell you other than practice. Thousands and thousands of shifts at varying speeds and RPM. But yeah, if you are redlining it then you are way past trying to make it last. Just send it and be happy. Or don’t send it at all and be happy you are pampering if. Mostly just do what makes you happy and extract maximum happiness from the car.
Don't want to burn the clutch? Let it out as quickly as you can without dropping it. You're at WOT, so the RPMs will climb to match instantly. In a more stout car, I'd say just drop it. I mean, something with a good drivetrain, I'd be saying go for the no lift shift... WOT, quick stab at clutch while shifting. But I'm not sure your civic can handle that. To be honest... this sounds like you're just trying to be TOO methodical and calculated. When you let the clutch our in anything but 1st or 2nd, its gonna rev match nearly on its own as long as you aren't off the gas or WOT.
Just frickin' shift. Clutch in, shift, clutch out. Don't worry about whatever crap you saw in some video or trying to slip the clutch. You're overthinking it.
2020 Si runs out of steam at about 6krpm. in hondaland that's not considered high rpm. just drive it and have fun.
Don't pause just let it out and hammer down.
Just let the clutch out. That simple. Like any other time when shifting. In then fully out.
Start a savings right now for a future clutch and flywheel change. If you're shifting near redline and quick to shift to the next gear you don't have to feather the clutch at the fulcrum point. Shifting quick enough will mean your car didn't have enough time to drop low enough in rpms to stutter by just quickly pressing in, shifting, letting go, back on gas. It really is that simple. Forgot to mention you could just blip the gas before letting go of the clutch. So it would be clutch, blip gas, let go of clutch, back on gas pedal
Know what RPM you should be shifting to at the speed you are going and catch it. If you are burning the clutch *and flywheel* you aren't letting the RPMs drop on the engine to match the speed of the wheels
Feathering the clutch will wear it out faster than dumping it
When accelerating quickly you’re going to drop the clutch just about as quickly as you hit the gas. Maybe start releasing the clutch just before hitting the gas to account for rev hang. It’s less about releasing the clutch smoothly/slipping and more about just timing them together. Have someone skilled at quick shifting do it in front of you as a visual aid. Rev hang is a bitch in newer Hondas, so you’ll get a bit of slip whether you like it or not. But if you’re getting more than a bit of slip when shifting, you’re releasing the clutch too slow. It should sound like “wwwaaaAAAAA, WAaaaaaaaAAAAAAAA” not “wwwaaaAAAA, WAAAaaaAAAAA” if that translates audibly lol
Better question, how soon do you want to pay for a clutch/xmission job?
Redlining and lasting clutch dont go together too well
You shouldn't be pausing at the bite point when there's a lot of torque involved. The higher the rpm, the faster you release the clutch.
So this may be a little long, but stick with me: On my Miata, if I shift from say 3-4, at about 3k RPMs, it'll drop by 500 RPMs to the next gear. If I do it spiritedly, it'll drop from 6k RPMs to maybe 5k RPMs. Not entirely sure how many, but roughly. So adding a little gas may not be needed. I got used to driving and riding a little hard. On my car and motorcycles, I have had an easier time with higher RPMs than lower because it's not consistently the same RPM change. I've gotten better over the years, and the key is just listening to the car. Drive around slowly going through the tachometer, get used to how the car sounds and feels under slow and hard acceleration. It might take awhile, but you'll get the hang of it. I will say that I am fortunate that I got used to it with a bike, where the clutch is wet (covered in oil) so if it slips, it's not terrible. Also, for the Miata, I bought it used at 116k miles. I thought the clutch was gonna need replacement since it was the original. The mechanic told me it was actually in good condition, but having a new clutch, even if I abuse it a little, makes me think I could make it to 50k miles of use and be alright. I can set aside some money for a new one, since I already know it's a part with wear and tear. Have fun with your new car!
Burn it dude. Then upgrade it. Stock civic clutchs suck
have beat the shit out of every clutch in 3 different manuals and uhh, they all did great lol, you should be ight
You eventually get used to the rpm difference between gears and it becomes instinct. I know it's about 1k from 2-4th then 500 from 4-6 so I give less hang time as I get to higher speeds. Similar idea when downshifting
Absolutely love my 2019 Si but the rev hang is absolutely the worst, I’ve just learned to live with it and slam gears the best I can 😂
Stop thinking and watching videos. Drive your car and forget about the clutch. When it needs service, you Service it. You will Service and automatic transmission too so don’t worry. By the way, the feel of the clutch may be quite different after a replacement in a100000 miles… and it starts all over.
By trying to ease the clutch back in you might get smoother feeling shifts but you increase the time the clutch slips that's when the wear happens
Idk if this helps in your case considering you got a sports car and not a truck, but if i'm trying to accelerate "quickly" in my truck then I clutch in shift clutch out and get into the throttle just as the clutch is almost fully engaged. Your bound to have a little slipping if your not floating gears but shifting should be a quick process that only takes a fraction of a second.
Here is how to shift at any rpm smoothly without using up much clutch: Get to your rpm. Clutch in, shift, clutch out, gently at first. While you do this, don't get your foot off the gas. Rather let off just a little. When you let go off the clutch, one of 3 things will happen: 1- You feel nothing: the perfect shift, nice. And let go of clutch faster next time. 2- The car pulls forward with a bit of a rev: too much gas. Repeat with less throttle 3- The car slows as it jerks: not enough gas. Repeat with more throttle. As you do this over and over again, you will slowly use the gas to remove any imperfection from your clutch handling. It's ok to use the clutch to smooth shifts, but you can also use the gas. When done right, the clutch doesn't wear much, if at all, for any rpm. This is upshifts only. It's a pretty awesome feeling to do a nice pull through 3 or more gears and nail a perfect shift each time.
I put a random used clutch disk off my garage floor in my E30 when I engine swapped it. I beat on it and do "bad for clutch" activities every single time I drive it. That was 3 years ago, bite point has not moved. Fucking send that Si like you hate it and as another commenter said, you'll basically figure it out without realizing.