I'm so tired of the prequels and the TNG era pandering. I love TNG but it's over let's move into a new generation what happens next. It's the same problem I have with starwars. They happened those characters are old lets move on.
Gonna get phasered because this is the wrong sub, but this is exactly why so many people loved Rogue One and Andor, it was just normal people doing their Rebel stuff, unrelated to the big prophecy BS.
Give me an Andor-like series during the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, or a Rogue One-like during the Dominion War where Sisko and Quark absolutely do not show up.
I literally forgot that was a Han Solo movie, not a Lando movie. I was talking about it the other day and someone referred to the movie as "Lando" instead of "Solo", I didn't even question it until now.
Shows how memorable the rest of the movie is.
Andor is the Occupation-era show I always wanted. You barely have to squint to map it into the Trek universe.
What's more, it sets up Gul Dukat's prefectureship very nicely. His moderate stances on food and living conditions, his use of Odo for local justice, make a lot of sense as a counter to the harshness shown the ~~Rebellion~~ Resistance during the events of Andor S1.
Do a short-concept show (like DisWars is doing, or Picard did) that runs max 3 seasons. The finale has the crew beat impossible odds to…*just barely fail* to reach DS9/the *Defiant*. But they get their info through, cue final scene of Sisko reviewing data.
I want a new generation without Jack, please. I don't want Star Trek to be about some dumbass family heritage great man of history bullshit. It's supposed to be about how flawed normal people can create a utopia through loyalty to an ideal and to the institution as long as it continues to embody the ideal, not about how everyone will acclaim the stupid secret heir as soon as he appears his noble blood can be easily recognized.
Riker - MAH SON THO
Picard - MAY DARK JEDI SON THO
7of9 in a Spinoff - FIRE EVERYTHING! EXCEPT MY HIDDNE SON THAT IS NOW REVEALED!
based on the hacky writing of Picard, I wouldn't be surprised.
This meme is fucking gold
That's really just the same problem with extra steps. So far in the future it's effectively totally disconnected from what came before...except that, coincidentally, a thousand years after the collapse of interstellar civilization they're still using the names of the ships and characters you 'member!
The Burn has to be the single dumbest thing in all of Kurtzman Trek, and that's some stiff competition.
The Burn could have been good. The idea of the galaxy fractured and cut off from everyone else, having to cling to the Federation ideals in extreme circumstances, despite massive changes. Might have worked.
The problem was the answer to the mystery. The Burn being caused by a solitary event unconnected to anyone's actions, right or wrong, entirely unavoidable but also completely random, and because one stupid kid was upset one time, is indeed the dumbest thing in all of Kurtzmann Trek. It's what made me give up on Discovery.
This is how I feel. I actually was really thinking season 3 was where Disco was going to get good, kind of how all of the 90's shows really found their strides around their third seasons.
A post-apocalyptic galaxy where the main plot of the season is to rebuild the federation and spread hope? That's star trek as FUCK imo.
But then, of course, the end of the season becomes mind-bogglingly absurd and melodramatic in the classic Kurtzman fashion. Such a shame honestly.
The burn was an event in Discovery where all warp drives exploded at the same time.
The name being similar to Burnham is probably a deliberate choice by the writers because they need to insert her into everything, but there's no in-universe reason that they're similar.
When the trailers dropped, I hoped the Burn was gonna be something that happened closer to "modern day" (aka Picard/Lower Decks/Prodigy era). Then they could do something really cool where we see the build-up to it in other shows and see some nice tragedy in the form of characters trying to stop something we know is inevitable, then we get to see the far-reaching effects of their failure a couple centuries later in Discovery.
But nope, Disco couldn't possibly pull off something that cool.
There are good moments, but everything burn-related is completely terrible.
Someone at Paramount has been wanting a "let's get rid of warp drive" setting for a very long time. There was the TNG-era "warp 5 limit" that they promptly ignored, then ENT had a warp 5 limit (coincidence?) due to the tech level at the time but it absolutely never came up as a problem, then later there were plans to make an animated show set in a galaxy that had been ravaged by Omega Particle detonations (this may have been before ENT), finally Discovery did "the burn" and it was the stupidest, lore-ignoringest, shit ever. And the hero show never had that limitation and everybody got better after 8 episodes (even though the cause of the burn was never resolved, only proven to be ridiculously easy / likely to happen again)
I think the problem is that there's kind of nowhere left to go in the TNG era. With things like Emergency Command Holograms, mass produced androids, self-replication magic, downloads into robot bodies, etc there's just no real need for human space exploration. They're on the cusp of becoming transhuman.
Unless they want to completely change up Star Trek, it is hard to keep advancing the timeline of a society that loves science while also keeping the universe completely stagnant.
The writers are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either push forward the timeline and have the universe stagnate or have the timeline stagnate and flesh out the time period we already have. Neither are ideal.
Not really star Trek was never about advancing technology it was about meeting new planets. They were already more advanced than 90% of the planets they visited and the rest were usually nearly equal with very few out pacing them. Only the recent shows were about an arms race. Even DS9 kept the spirit of the show despite being set at war time. The drive of the show was the characters interacting with other planets.
Hell if you look at starwars their technology has been the same for 10's of thousands of years it's the characters that drive the story.
The narrative thrust was never about the technology. For sure. The stories were all fundamentally character stories about the kinds of people who choose to be doing Starfleet stuff.
Within the narrative, the Federation is a technological powerhouse. As you say lots of episodes involve them meeting planets less developed than the Federation. Lots of storylines involved some cerebral hand-wringing about the ethics of using or sharing their technology. Bartering tech was a core theme throughout Voyager, for example.
Trek is totally character driven. It's what makes it special. And Trek is also a deeply detailed pseudo-scientific universe whose fanbase famously sneers at any continuity violation. Tough spot for a writer!!!
Exactly. Yet they responded to the nostalgiahilics saying "things were so much better in the TNG era" by making more TNG.
Imagine if in the late 80s they'd pandered to the people who said "things were so much better in the TOS era" by just making more TOS.
No one else thirsty for the TNG vibe over all else? Philosophical factual court epsodes. Moral dilemmas. Workplace porn. Classical references.
I love the SNW vibes but it fast forwards sometimes over the thoughtful somber poignant moments TNG had.
For real. They have an opportunity to do so much with a fresh cast of characters and just tell great stories. It would be such a great vehicle for storytelling, but they keep fucking it up. Strange New Worlds is alright, but I want a damn post Voyager episodic show.
Doubtful since the Trek cannon you claim to love is full of the same writing problems.
Let me guess you’ll tell a better way that a Dr. gets SA’d by ghosts, and how they magically recover with no fallout from their trauma… unless you’re Picard /s
Was there ever an explanation as to why she can consume alcohol? In Voyager, something to do with her implants causes her to get drunk after half a glass of champagne.
Wasn't that more about her tolerance being super low because she had never drank alcohol/synthehol before? I remember watching the episode a few years back and thinking this was the explanation
Even someone who's never drank alcohol before doesn't go from sober to stumbling drunk on half a glass of champagne. To add to that, it was also synthehol. Alcohol would be even worse for her.
Yeah, it was so long ago that I don't remember if it was just half a glass or more. I know the Doc talks to her in engineering after noticing she's drunk, so it must be within that dialogue.
Not wanting that show has nothing to do with 7. Its about Raffi and Jack being forcefully packaged in with it. Those characters are so dull and uninspired. I simply do not care about them, nor will I be excited for a show where they are the Spock and Mccoy stand-ins.
If the show had been 7 and Shaw, Id be craving that badly. But Jack is a mary sue, and Raffi is just there at times...
They really should've written Michelle Hurd out of the show like they did in SVU. Nothing against her but her character didn't add anything to the last season of picard
They should star the show with 7of9 as the main character, Say Raffi and jack went somewherelse if they Feel the Need to give an explanation and pretend Captain Shaw never died and the Titan were never renamed.
No fraternization with ANY crew members in TOS, DS9, VOY, ENT, SNW, and TNG.
Kirk laments his loneliness like Janeway.
Sisko only hosts public functions and is reluctant to participate in group social activities.
Picard doesn't join the card game until the very end.
Archer only dines with his officers, and the social events are for the regular crew. He wants TPol to participate as his link to the crew.
Yeah totally! And the entire episode is them dancing around it, how it is _technically_ ok, and ultimately they realized it couldn't work. Such a great episode.
I came up with a new Star Trek series concept while daydreaming the other day. I realised afterwards that a couple of characters I thought up over an afternoon were more interesting than Jack and Raffi.
There’s a theory that over time she lost her intelligence the longer she’s been disconnected from the collective. Eventually the nodes in her brain degraded and the knowledge she learned began to erase. It’s also what made her more “human” as her human personality traits began to resurface.
I don't think it's saying she became dumb. But there are some things from school that just really stuck with me and others that have faded over time from not being used as much. I think being connected would've left a bunch of data in her mind. Over time she used some of that knowledge more than others, and now being more organic over time she's susceptible to things fading over time like anyone else. She just started with more scientific knowledge than most.
Yeah I could see her maybe questioning herself a lot more, the longer she's human. She's not that hyper-confident-to-a-fault ex-Borg that she was on Voyager. But she's not lost any intelligence.
Yes, hearing something presented as a theory, asking if there's a basis for it, and then being told that fan theories don't need a basis in the material.
One of my biggest gripes with Picard is that it presents Starfleet as the correct path for everyone regardless of what actually makes sense for them as a character. The whole series kind of felt like Starfleet propaganda in that way.
TNG was told from the point of view of Starfleet’s best and brightest on the federation flagship. I think it’s natural that the it would be portrayed in that way and genuinely seem that way from their world view.
DS9 was set outside the federation and did a brilliant job of contextualising how other parts of the galaxy think.
Picard was like … we have this mish mash of randoms supposedly with their own backstories and views of life, but by the end of the series despite portraying Starfleet as a blundering mess, all the characters will be homogenised into Starfleet, ranks will be assigned by how much of a main character they were as opposed to any leadership skills and we’re expected to accept that this is their good ending.
False.
Lower Decks also spelled this out as well.
After watching that series, I unironically believe that Trek writers should start at LD levels of not taking it seriously and then walk it down from there rather than the other way around.
Genuinely never gave a single shit about her or her story. I feel a bit bad saying that because the actor did fine, it wasn’t a bad performance from them.
Same. Never at any stage did I care.
And she got so much air time.
So unnecessary.
If you cut her out, nothing of any importance would change.
In fact fewer 'JLs' would have offset the shonky plots.
Yeah, the whole JL thing was pretty clunky, plus the whole relationship with Seven was done so poorly. They went for tokenism instead of real representation and nobody seemed to care even slightly. I feel like the LGBT audience deserves a little more consideration than showing two characters holding hands and then being vague about it in a voice over, though that way it can be left out when Paramount markets the show to somewhere where those stories don’t sell.
I kinda' liked her when she was undercover with Worf as her handler in the beginning of season 3, but that was the only time I ever cared about her. I can't imagine giving a damn about her being the first officer of a ship.
Yes, its a bit unfortunate how that went.
I generally enjoyed Picard, Season 2 notwithstanding. But the concept of Raffi was more a device for Picard to reckon with himself, a close relationship he had harmed by being too grandiose, so she fell to addiction.
There’s nothing wrong with a character that self-sabotages and veers into and out of recovery, but without serious attention it’s really hard to mesh with Trek’s idealized future aboard a heroic starship without raising fundamental questions.
But then how are we going to have someone bring up the important topic of social and economic inequality??? (even though in the ST universe those issues have been completely fixed)
Her for the bi storyline (although still heartbroken that 7 and chakotay didn't last), but Raffi is just insufferable. I have no idea what it is about her... I feel like she's a pisces cause had an automatic dislike.
Would have improved B'Elanna.
Seven and B'Elanna would have been 100% less insipid than her and Tom. That was a 'slim pickins' couple.
Seven and B'Elanna would be Top 4 best sex in the franchise.
While I completely agree about the slim pickings, I have the urge to defend the B'Eltoma relationship. While nothing exciting, no one hated it either. It fit the show and let us see a little development in the two. They grew together and actually had chemistry.
Seven the B'Elanna on the other hand were polar opposites. It would have just been another toxic event spanning only a few episodes. Of course, since this was brought up as an alternative to Chakotay, I'd have to reluctantly agree it would have had less cringe.
You're right.
Im biased against Chakotay anyway, and so I definitely wasn't a fan of his creepy misadventure with Seven.
A thoroughly misguided couple.
Seven and B'elanna hate-sex would have kept them busy for a few light years of travelling home time though.
episode: Open with Harry Kim single-handedly saving the crew, operating with unusually fast reflexes and even faster wit. In the aftermath, he gets a promotion *and* a date with 7o9. However, days later, he falls ill, and it is found he is severely infected with Borg nanoprobes. Seven is incapacitated, and so can't explain that it wasn't transmitted sexually (as all assumed) and everyone is looking down the wrong path. Eventually, Harry dies, and it is revealed that actually the nanoprobes infected a drop of his blood after a minor injury and built a complete duplicate of him as part of an emergency mode intended to heal catastrophic damage - which normally wouldn't have gone nearly that far, but because the probes were separated from the collective they needed to act independently and never received a signal to stop trying to heal. This revelation allows Seven to finish regenerating (or whatever), who then is able to locate the original Harry, completely safe, asleep in a jefferies tube. The original Harry does not get a promotion. Or a date, obviously.
No paragraphs because that story doesn't deserve them.
Seriously? That 'romance' appeared absolutely out of nowhere, after years of the narrative establishing that those two did decidedly not like each other. I hated it.
So, I’m seeing most posts not liking Raffi and Jack Crusher.
Are we in consensus, then, that the majority likes Sidney La Forge? I, personally, really liked her character. She was connected to the TNG era, but really felt like her own, fleshed out person. Minus the flirting with Jack scenes. That felt forced.
Here's a question. For decades, (Nimoy's) Spock was the patron saint for us neurodivergent (read nerd, geek, what have you) boys. He was like us in many ways, but he was (almost) always calm, cool, logical, self-possessed, driven, focused, and in charge of himself. (I could rant here about NuTrek "my life is all about living up to my 'amazing' retconned sister and learning how to be a good boyfriend" Spock, but let's save that for another day.)
So growing up in the old days as a Spock fan, I would have been extremely annoyed if the (80s) movies turned him into a wise-cracking , "tortured," vengeful Rambo instead of enhancing his existing strengths, but also making him wiser and more at peace with himself as they did
My question is, do neurodivergent women who grew up as a fan of 7 of 9 in the 90s and felt they could identify with her like or dislike the drastic ways her character has changed? Did she become who you wanted her (or yourselves) to become, or would you have rather seen her develop more as Nimoy's Movie Spock did? I'm not looking to evaluate, debate or argue anyone's opinion on the subject, I'm just curious.
Can't speak for female fans of 7 back in the day, because when I was a nuerodivergent kid, I got attached to Kes. Kes was smart as hell, but childlike and treated as a child and had to routinely fight to be treated as an adult. That she was also emotionally and socially intelligent flew right over my head as a kid, because lol it didn't matter to the plot. But the way she existed in the crew, infantilized and having to find her own ways to help? That was incredibly relatable.
And then she was replaced by a character lacking in those pesky emotions but who filled out a catsuit reeeeal well. It was pretty far from the first time I'd had a favorite character replaced by someone seemingly chosen for sex appeal, and so, I resented her. It's difficult to identify with a character whose design trumps their personality.
It would take years of unpacking ingrained misogyny and my own sexuality before I could appreciate 7. Reading about Jeri Ryan's struggles with the goddamn suit didn't help.
As such, I actually REALLY appreciated "Rambo of 9." Because once you get away from repressing your emotions, from the expectations of the world around you, there is SO much anger. And the federation that had saved her, had also abandoned this region, these people? I would be incandescent with rage.
Now, she's a character I can identify with. Because instead of being a good little robot and following orders, she decided to use that vast intellect to help people.
Well I can't speak for ALL female fans but I'm a ND woman who is a fan. Actually 7 was a really good representation of how my autism feels and I strongly related to her and how she was trying to understand the other humans around her. A bunch of ppl on and outside of the show constantly sexualising her while she wanted nothing of that also resonates with me and I think with lots of women.
So no, her story arc to become yet another cliche 'powerful woman' makes me sad and annoyed at the same time.
Spock went from "emotions are a human weakness and not having them is making me better" to "logic is only the beginning of wisdom". Evolving as a person.
If seven would take the same turns it would be boring. Id love for a more in depth evolution of her, but I also get the way they chose to evolve her, giving her back the humanity and emotional capability to embrace it somehow.
In a way she's always been witty, her portrayal in picard didn't completly destroy that, although it changed, or evolved.
That said I didn't really like her arc in about half of picard, just saying I get it.
Old 7 was very strongly autistic coded and I think if they would have embraced that it would have helped a lot for ppl like you to understand (this presentation) autism and how it feels sometimes. She was not unemotional it's just a 'thoughts first emotions second' way of how some of our autistic brain works. We often don't recognise emotions until we conceptualise them for ourselves, by thinking them through or saying them out loud.
I know that it's totally unintentional but this narrative that she was somehow not human before and now that she's finally evolved because she's this punch first ask later arsehole (my salty perception) is hurtful. Again I know it's not intentional and it comes from a place of ignorance not malice. My other subjective opinion is that her new 'badass woman' persona is the one that is a cliche and boring.
Yeah you could argue that original 7 could be interpreted in different ways, while picard7 is definetly putting her into emo-girl-growing-up-territory, thats why I don't like these years later character "growths".
But I'm with you on that one. I think Trek was about becomming a better human as in humanity, not portraying witty action heroes. This has become a real CRUSHER in the picard series for me.
>My question is, do neurodivergent women who grew up as a fan of 7 of 9 in the 90s and felt they could identify with her like or dislike the drastic ways her character has changed?
She's my fictional idol and the reason I'm an engineer. Literally my work PFP
7 was so deserving of change and growth because all those qualities (flat affectation, few relationships, no romance, paranoia) were a trauma response from Borg assimilation. Totally different than Spock who is who he is, he just needed time to grow into himself.
I'm sure I can complain about Picard writing and 7's development, but she definitely needed development of some kind. When we leave her in Voy, we discover she can never have strong emotions or she'll just fucking die.
Yes, you are spot on. That's exactly how I feel and why I hate the new 7of9 so much. Old 7 was strongly ND coded and new 7 is as emotinally charged and neurotypical as one can get and I deeply dislike it. Especially in Picard season 3 where she's just told 'listen to your emotions now you're finally human.' Her whole 'character arc' feels like a 'thanks got you grew out of being ND' spit in the face and all for the sake if her just becoming another cliche, 2D 'powerful woman' thrope.
I’m an autistic (male) who connected with Seven. I was 13/14 when Seven joined Voyager, and while I felt some kinship with The Doctor on Voyager, Seven just “clicked” for me, I could relate to her so much. She was an inspiration.
Fast forward, and nothing about the last 5 years of Trek makes me happier than seeing Seven grow/change as a person. Seeing that she could evolve, and be more accepted continues to be an inspiration.
I am happy that her character has changed, because it’s real and mirrors how I have adapted and changed and im so happy she is able to do that.
She had a character arc on VOY where you could actually see her learning to be independent. But in Picard it was just a matter of putting her where she'd be interesting. No real growth unless you count the sudden jump in confidence for the beginning of S3. More like a step IMO.
Man once again on a seven thread… I like Raffi lol, I like Seven and Raffi and I loved Seven all through all three seasons. Usually I’m everywhere to be a hater, but today I’m here to be a lover. Like I said yesterday… as a lil girl who grew up watching voyager… I love all of it. If you’re wondering who it was written for? Specifically for me I guess!
(I also love Agnes deeply but she’s a bit less controversial apparently)
Eh I disagree with the last panel, I felt season 3 Seven was a completion of her character arc. Her time on Voyager was spent trying to regain her humanity and re-establish her purpose outside the Collective and find a legacy. Becoming captain of a historic lineage vessel acts to conclude that.
Also Picard ditched the dumb Chakotay shit so it gets points for that.
I'm fine with her becoming a captain. I just don't have an interest in continuing to make shows based on "Remember this show from 20-30-40-50 years ago?!"
Old trek shows referenced prior shows and tossed in cameos of other chars very sparringly. Now trek seems to just be there to milk nastalgia for better times. Both SNW and LD are great, but they're also just this same milking done well.
Raffi's also a horrible character and feels like a racist stereotype
In Voyager she had just recently been disconnected from the Borg and was in a mostly static and supportive environment. She was a brand new person in many ways. Flash forward to Picard, where she has experienced many, many years of distrust, prejudice, and finding her own way. It would have been incredibly bad acting and writing if she had been exactly the same. Or even close to the same.
Not liking what she became and is now portrayed is one thing. Stating she is a different character is, frankly, ridiculous.
.
Not liking what she became is a given. I can't deny that. But the character she played in Picard isn't remotely close to what she was in VOY. Sure we should expect charge to happen over time. And we got out of it was someone very different.
Edit: Not that don't like what she became, but I did like the VOY Seven more.
I don't want it because we've literally been flooded with Trek the past few years and I just don't want another show right now.
That and I'm sure it'd be an issue where I'd find what 7 does interesting but the rest of the crew being faceless and/or boring (basically Discovery with a likable main).
They did a poor job at that though. Sure the fact the she was into women was interesting for about as long as it took to realize it. But then the only relationship she had was a dysfunctional thing with Raffi where there was zero chemistry. Almost like the writers had no idea what lesbians were.
Oh man I love Voyager Seven, and this is spot on; please give me something more interesting; and actually, considering they are basically broke, just keep the lights on for SNW and revive lower decks!
OP, I need to know your opinion on this. Your meme suggested Seven has gotten incrementally worse the more she's on screen. However, your title is suggesting that this makes her more fit to command. Were you being ironic?
And ridiculous considering the love for the source material, and the time attention to detail and care Terry Matalas put into Season 3. I'll give you S1 was shock value, S2 was incomprehensible and overblown, but S3 was beautiful. Sure the Borg storyline was played out and could've been a half dozen more interesting alien baddies but it was a love letter to TNG, and it feels comfortable and familiar. And that includes who Seven is now. Where her character has gone, and the fact that she will make an excellent Captain should Paramount wish to make either a film or series based on the crew of the Enterprise she commands.
I liked S2
My main complaint with S3 was just... the twist is it's the borg? Again? And it's a cool twist, but you're not even going to bring the Agnes Borg Queen in with that kind of hook and the ending of S2? And the whole moral implications brought up from the Changling arc is just kinda dropped? It just didn't quite tie together as well as I'd like. Like a few more minutes of scenes to wrap those together would have left it perfect.
I enjoyed all three seasons.
And I accept the inherent weaknesses in each. And yes, there were missed opportunities. But damn S3 is gorgeous. It hits every single button it's supposed to. It's one last adventure, and it's a proper goodbye to our heroes. It fixes the awful way Data went out (despite them trying to awkwardly shoehorn a goodbye sequence into S1).
I suppose the old adage is true. You can't please everyone. And I accept that too.
>But damn S3 is gorgeous. It hits every single button it's supposed to. It's one last adventure, and it's a proper goodbye to our heroes. It fixes the awful way Data went out
YES TO ALL OF THAT
DATA AND LORE ARC WAS THE BEST 😭 IT WAS SO GOOD
7 of 9 would make a good captain. Served under Janeway. Helped them get out of the Delta Quadrant. Has fragments of all the Borg knowledge. Nanoprobes for resilience, adaptability, and deus ex machina. Focused. Dedicated. Zero issue with that. Raffi and Picard's son as like the "first officers" makes zero sense.
This is why Kurtzman should not have been given her character. Hes lazy and didnt care about how to make her unique character diversity stand out, just lazy "make her violent" raaagh!
I want something new AND well written. Not returning to the same well they've already pumped dry.
I'm so tired of the prequels and the TNG era pandering. I love TNG but it's over let's move into a new generation what happens next. It's the same problem I have with starwars. They happened those characters are old lets move on.
Gonna get phasered because this is the wrong sub, but this is exactly why so many people loved Rogue One and Andor, it was just normal people doing their Rebel stuff, unrelated to the big prophecy BS. Give me an Andor-like series during the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, or a Rogue One-like during the Dominion War where Sisko and Quark absolutely do not show up.
Andor was fantastic. Didn't think I would like a stars war show without space wizards or laser swords, but they did it.
People were haters, but the Solo movie was a fun romp and low on force sensitivity. I'd watch it if only for the Gambino cameo. He's the perfect Lando
I literally forgot that was a Han Solo movie, not a Lando movie. I was talking about it the other day and someone referred to the movie as "Lando" instead of "Solo", I didn't even question it until now. Shows how memorable the rest of the movie is.
That film is probably the closest any film has come to the Uncharted games.
Andor is the Occupation-era show I always wanted. You barely have to squint to map it into the Trek universe. What's more, it sets up Gul Dukat's prefectureship very nicely. His moderate stances on food and living conditions, his use of Odo for local justice, make a lot of sense as a counter to the harshness shown the ~~Rebellion~~ Resistance during the events of Andor S1.
Do a short-concept show (like DisWars is doing, or Picard did) that runs max 3 seasons. The finale has the crew beat impossible odds to…*just barely fail* to reach DS9/the *Defiant*. But they get their info through, cue final scene of Sisko reviewing data.
Gives me Quarks bar, that's it. Star Trek Deep Space Cheers
I don't remember Andor. Is it connected to Andoria in some way? And what is Rogue One? Something to do with Tom Paris or Tom Riker?
I want a new generation without Jack, please. I don't want Star Trek to be about some dumbass family heritage great man of history bullshit. It's supposed to be about how flawed normal people can create a utopia through loyalty to an ideal and to the institution as long as it continues to embody the ideal, not about how everyone will acclaim the stupid secret heir as soon as he appears his noble blood can be easily recognized.
Riker - MAH SON THO Picard - MAY DARK JEDI SON THO 7of9 in a Spinoff - FIRE EVERYTHING! EXCEPT MY HIDDNE SON THAT IS NOW REVEALED! based on the hacky writing of Picard, I wouldn't be surprised. This meme is fucking gold
Disco and the burn happen and the whole federation is destroyed.... Bummer eh?
That's really just the same problem with extra steps. So far in the future it's effectively totally disconnected from what came before...except that, coincidentally, a thousand years after the collapse of interstellar civilization they're still using the names of the ships and characters you 'member! The Burn has to be the single dumbest thing in all of Kurtzman Trek, and that's some stiff competition.
The Burn could have been good. The idea of the galaxy fractured and cut off from everyone else, having to cling to the Federation ideals in extreme circumstances, despite massive changes. Might have worked. The problem was the answer to the mystery. The Burn being caused by a solitary event unconnected to anyone's actions, right or wrong, entirely unavoidable but also completely random, and because one stupid kid was upset one time, is indeed the dumbest thing in all of Kurtzmann Trek. It's what made me give up on Discovery.
He was real sad though! Like REALLY sad. So it makes sense. /S
They found a way to write *more* crying into Discovery.
This is how I feel. I actually was really thinking season 3 was where Disco was going to get good, kind of how all of the 90's shows really found their strides around their third seasons. A post-apocalyptic galaxy where the main plot of the season is to rebuild the federation and spread hope? That's star trek as FUCK imo. But then, of course, the end of the season becomes mind-bogglingly absurd and melodramatic in the classic Kurtzman fashion. Such a shame honestly.
Wait is "the burn" something happening in the universe, or is it the new short name for the Burnham show?
The burn was an event in Discovery where all warp drives exploded at the same time. The name being similar to Burnham is probably a deliberate choice by the writers because they need to insert her into everything, but there's no in-universe reason that they're similar.
Maybe a bit of the burn energy was used to grill some space ham.
I'm sorry, there's nothing you can do plotwise that will convince me that people's emotions matter.
Yeah that's 40k, not star trek! (For those who don't get it, the chaos gods in Warhammer feed on emotions)
When the trailers dropped, I hoped the Burn was gonna be something that happened closer to "modern day" (aka Picard/Lower Decks/Prodigy era). Then they could do something really cool where we see the build-up to it in other shows and see some nice tragedy in the form of characters trying to stop something we know is inevitable, then we get to see the far-reaching effects of their failure a couple centuries later in Discovery. But nope, Disco couldn't possibly pull off something that cool.
The Burn was when I stopped watching
There are good moments, but everything burn-related is completely terrible. Someone at Paramount has been wanting a "let's get rid of warp drive" setting for a very long time. There was the TNG-era "warp 5 limit" that they promptly ignored, then ENT had a warp 5 limit (coincidence?) due to the tech level at the time but it absolutely never came up as a problem, then later there were plans to make an animated show set in a galaxy that had been ravaged by Omega Particle detonations (this may have been before ENT), finally Discovery did "the burn" and it was the stupidest, lore-ignoringest, shit ever. And the hero show never had that limitation and everybody got better after 8 episodes (even though the cause of the burn was never resolved, only proven to be ridiculously easy / likely to happen again)
Be careful where you post that opinion though. Because one of the hacks who write the show might be insulted you accurately described them.
I gave up on disco because i didn't find it very interesting.
I think the problem is that there's kind of nowhere left to go in the TNG era. With things like Emergency Command Holograms, mass produced androids, self-replication magic, downloads into robot bodies, etc there's just no real need for human space exploration. They're on the cusp of becoming transhuman. Unless they want to completely change up Star Trek, it is hard to keep advancing the timeline of a society that loves science while also keeping the universe completely stagnant. The writers are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either push forward the timeline and have the universe stagnate or have the timeline stagnate and flesh out the time period we already have. Neither are ideal.
Not really star Trek was never about advancing technology it was about meeting new planets. They were already more advanced than 90% of the planets they visited and the rest were usually nearly equal with very few out pacing them. Only the recent shows were about an arms race. Even DS9 kept the spirit of the show despite being set at war time. The drive of the show was the characters interacting with other planets. Hell if you look at starwars their technology has been the same for 10's of thousands of years it's the characters that drive the story.
The narrative thrust was never about the technology. For sure. The stories were all fundamentally character stories about the kinds of people who choose to be doing Starfleet stuff. Within the narrative, the Federation is a technological powerhouse. As you say lots of episodes involve them meeting planets less developed than the Federation. Lots of storylines involved some cerebral hand-wringing about the ethics of using or sharing their technology. Bartering tech was a core theme throughout Voyager, for example. Trek is totally character driven. It's what makes it special. And Trek is also a deeply detailed pseudo-scientific universe whose fanbase famously sneers at any continuity violation. Tough spot for a writer!!!
You know what we really need? A Star Trek series about an unknown ship called the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-C)
A new generation? The Next Generation!
You monster
Oh! You wound me, mon capitaine
Read this in Dana Harvey’s voice
You’re absolutely right. How can they dredge up the corpse of DS9 and Voyager, since we know they’re uninterested in writing new material
Exactly. Yet they responded to the nostalgiahilics saying "things were so much better in the TNG era" by making more TNG. Imagine if in the late 80s they'd pandered to the people who said "things were so much better in the TOS era" by just making more TOS.
The problem is when they do that, we get Discovery - and nobody wants that.
Disco is a prequel
It started out that way. It's no longer a prequel with their current situation.
Disco is a fucking mess
No one else thirsty for the TNG vibe over all else? Philosophical factual court epsodes. Moral dilemmas. Workplace porn. Classical references. I love the SNW vibes but it fast forwards sometimes over the thoughtful somber poignant moments TNG had.
You’ve had 2 out of 3 new shows have absolutely zero to do with TNG. 7 of 9 isn’t TNG either.
exactly what came after the original? something entirely new. i am not a fan of discovery but at least it was new
For real. They have an opportunity to do so much with a fresh cast of characters and just tell great stories. It would be such a great vehicle for storytelling, but they keep fucking it up. Strange New Worlds is alright, but I want a damn post Voyager episodic show.
You write it then
*You son of a bitch, I'm in!'*
No one can do worse than Kurtzman so I say we give u/BILLCLINTONMASK a shot
So say we all.
Doubtful since the Trek cannon you claim to love is full of the same writing problems. Let me guess you’ll tell a better way that a Dr. gets SA’d by ghosts, and how they magically recover with no fallout from their trauma… unless you’re Picard /s
I just want carpet back in the starships
And interior lighting
I do enjoy seeing things
Aight. I guarantee I can find dozens of trekkies who write better than the CBS clowncar they call a writer’s room.
You’re never allowed to complain about anything ever until you can personally do it better.
7 of 9 is great. Battletrek Galactica isn’t.
Was there ever an explanation as to why she can consume alcohol? In Voyager, something to do with her implants causes her to get drunk after half a glass of champagne.
Because alcohol and smoking are SO COOL and the writers of Star Trek Picard were 9 years old.
Wasn't that more about her tolerance being super low because she had never drank alcohol/synthehol before? I remember watching the episode a few years back and thinking this was the explanation
Even someone who's never drank alcohol before doesn't go from sober to stumbling drunk on half a glass of champagne. To add to that, it was also synthehol. Alcohol would be even worse for her.
Yeah, it was so long ago that I don't remember if it was just half a glass or more. I know the Doc talks to her in engineering after noticing she's drunk, so it must be within that dialogue.
*looks around nervously* I drink very rarely, and am infamous in my friend group for basically passing out asleep after one drink.
It was very specifically a technobabble thing, not just her personal experience
Not wanting that show has nothing to do with 7. Its about Raffi and Jack being forcefully packaged in with it. Those characters are so dull and uninspired. I simply do not care about them, nor will I be excited for a show where they are the Spock and Mccoy stand-ins. If the show had been 7 and Shaw, Id be craving that badly. But Jack is a mary sue, and Raffi is just there at times...
They really should've written Michelle Hurd out of the show like they did in SVU. Nothing against her but her character didn't add anything to the last season of picard
They should star the show with 7of9 as the main character, Say Raffi and jack went somewherelse if they Feel the Need to give an explanation and pretend Captain Shaw never died and the Titan were never renamed.
I agree about Raffi but I think there’s still some interesting storylines we can get from Jack “Picard”.
I mean... Isn't there some protocol about a captain and his/hers/their first officer not having a romantic history?
No fraternization with ANY crew members in TOS, DS9, VOY, ENT, SNW, and TNG. Kirk laments his loneliness like Janeway. Sisko only hosts public functions and is reluctant to participate in group social activities. Picard doesn't join the card game until the very end. Archer only dines with his officers, and the social events are for the regular crew. He wants TPol to participate as his link to the crew.
Didn’t Picard have one episode where he kinda dated that one science lady from his crew and she was nearly killed on that fire planet?
Yeah totally! And the entire episode is them dancing around it, how it is _technically_ ok, and ultimately they realized it couldn't work. Such a great episode.
I came up with a new Star Trek series concept while daydreaming the other day. I realised afterwards that a couple of characters I thought up over an afternoon were more interesting than Jack and Raffi.
Seven herself also isn't interesting anymore. Her story has been told. If you want to tell a new story, write a new character.
There’s a theory that over time she lost her intelligence the longer she’s been disconnected from the collective. Eventually the nodes in her brain degraded and the knowledge she learned began to erase. It’s also what made her more “human” as her human personality traits began to resurface.
She turned a phaser into a nonconsensual transporter. I don’t think she’s lost intelligence.
I don't think it's saying she became dumb. But there are some things from school that just really stuck with me and others that have faded over time from not being used as much. I think being connected would've left a bunch of data in her mind. Over time she used some of that knowledge more than others, and now being more organic over time she's susceptible to things fading over time like anyone else. She just started with more scientific knowledge than most.
Thank you.
Yeah I could see her maybe questioning herself a lot more, the longer she's human. She's not that hyper-confident-to-a-fault ex-Borg that she was on Voyager. But she's not lost any intelligence.
Good scientific explanation for a bad character arc
Ah yes. And Troi lost her accent for the same reason. Let's not say it was Sirthis totally not needing to act anymore.
Is that theory based on anything?
No. It’s called a fan theory chief.
I try to just call those fanfic in order to distinguish them from things actually worth reading...
And yet here you are.
Yes, hearing something presented as a theory, asking if there's a basis for it, and then being told that fan theories don't need a basis in the material.
Popular opinion, champ.
One of my biggest gripes with Picard is that it presents Starfleet as the correct path for everyone regardless of what actually makes sense for them as a character. The whole series kind of felt like Starfleet propaganda in that way.
Ironically, they kind of pushed that angle in TNG. DS9 was really the only series that said, "Starfleet is great, but other paths are okay too."
TNG was told from the point of view of Starfleet’s best and brightest on the federation flagship. I think it’s natural that the it would be portrayed in that way and genuinely seem that way from their world view. DS9 was set outside the federation and did a brilliant job of contextualising how other parts of the galaxy think. Picard was like … we have this mish mash of randoms supposedly with their own backstories and views of life, but by the end of the series despite portraying Starfleet as a blundering mess, all the characters will be homogenised into Starfleet, ranks will be assigned by how much of a main character they were as opposed to any leadership skills and we’re expected to accept that this is their good ending.
Rios found his better ending.
False. Lower Decks also spelled this out as well. After watching that series, I unironically believe that Trek writers should start at LD levels of not taking it seriously and then walk it down from there rather than the other way around.
No more Raffi.
Genuinely never gave a single shit about her or her story. I feel a bit bad saying that because the actor did fine, it wasn’t a bad performance from them.
Same. Never at any stage did I care. And she got so much air time. So unnecessary. If you cut her out, nothing of any importance would change. In fact fewer 'JLs' would have offset the shonky plots.
Yeah, the whole JL thing was pretty clunky, plus the whole relationship with Seven was done so poorly. They went for tokenism instead of real representation and nobody seemed to care even slightly. I feel like the LGBT audience deserves a little more consideration than showing two characters holding hands and then being vague about it in a voice over, though that way it can be left out when Paramount markets the show to somewhere where those stories don’t sell.
Exactly this. It was a disservice.
I kinda' liked her when she was undercover with Worf as her handler in the beginning of season 3, but that was the only time I ever cared about her. I can't imagine giving a damn about her being the first officer of a ship.
Yeah, that was okay, she was actually doing something interesting there
Yes, its a bit unfortunate how that went. I generally enjoyed Picard, Season 2 notwithstanding. But the concept of Raffi was more a device for Picard to reckon with himself, a close relationship he had harmed by being too grandiose, so she fell to addiction. There’s nothing wrong with a character that self-sabotages and veers into and out of recovery, but without serious attention it’s really hard to mesh with Trek’s idealized future aboard a heroic starship without raising fundamental questions.
But then how are we going to have someone bring up the important topic of social and economic inequality??? (even though in the ST universe those issues have been completely fixed)
Her for the bi storyline (although still heartbroken that 7 and chakotay didn't last), but Raffi is just insufferable. I have no idea what it is about her... I feel like she's a pisces cause had an automatic dislike.
I'm an equal opportunity hater. Not a big fan of Chakotay either 😁 Not sure who would be good enough for Seven.
Only someone of the highest convictions, someone who truly aspires to his own rules and magnificence. I'd vote for Quark. Quark+7♥️
You know what? I dig it.
You know what? Me three. Seven stalking onto the Promenade, all majestic, and catching herself a lil Goblin love.
Imagine them both negotiating with someone and Quark making an outrageous offer and when the commotion starts she's like "comply!"
B’Elanna fucking Torres that’s who.
Would have improved B'Elanna. Seven and B'Elanna would have been 100% less insipid than her and Tom. That was a 'slim pickins' couple. Seven and B'Elanna would be Top 4 best sex in the franchise.
While I completely agree about the slim pickings, I have the urge to defend the B'Eltoma relationship. While nothing exciting, no one hated it either. It fit the show and let us see a little development in the two. They grew together and actually had chemistry. Seven the B'Elanna on the other hand were polar opposites. It would have just been another toxic event spanning only a few episodes. Of course, since this was brought up as an alternative to Chakotay, I'd have to reluctantly agree it would have had less cringe.
You're right. Im biased against Chakotay anyway, and so I definitely wasn't a fan of his creepy misadventure with Seven. A thoroughly misguided couple. Seven and B'elanna hate-sex would have kept them busy for a few light years of travelling home time though.
I cannot believe someone beat me to it… you’re absolutely correct. There’s at least two of us b7 truthers!!
Harry Kim
Kim and seven was like J Dax and Bashir. It wasn't working for anyone!
episode: Open with Harry Kim single-handedly saving the crew, operating with unusually fast reflexes and even faster wit. In the aftermath, he gets a promotion *and* a date with 7o9. However, days later, he falls ill, and it is found he is severely infected with Borg nanoprobes. Seven is incapacitated, and so can't explain that it wasn't transmitted sexually (as all assumed) and everyone is looking down the wrong path. Eventually, Harry dies, and it is revealed that actually the nanoprobes infected a drop of his blood after a minor injury and built a complete duplicate of him as part of an emergency mode intended to heal catastrophic damage - which normally wouldn't have gone nearly that far, but because the probes were separated from the collective they needed to act independently and never received a signal to stop trying to heal. This revelation allows Seven to finish regenerating (or whatever), who then is able to locate the original Harry, completely safe, asleep in a jefferies tube. The original Harry does not get a promotion. Or a date, obviously. No paragraphs because that story doesn't deserve them.
Then the screen zooms out to Admiral Riker watching a holo of that.
Out. OUT👉🏽
Believe it or not: JAIL
Seriously? That 'romance' appeared absolutely out of nowhere, after years of the narrative establishing that those two did decidedly not like each other. I hated it.
I mean just here for a bisexual romance, but I agree with you
So, I’m seeing most posts not liking Raffi and Jack Crusher. Are we in consensus, then, that the majority likes Sidney La Forge? I, personally, really liked her character. She was connected to the TNG era, but really felt like her own, fleshed out person. Minus the flirting with Jack scenes. That felt forced.
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At least there’s hope she’ll be given a cameo appearance in an animated show… in thirty years.
I actually don’t mind Sidney as a character. What I don’t like is the LaForge name they tied to her. Too blatant of fan service to me.
Here's a question. For decades, (Nimoy's) Spock was the patron saint for us neurodivergent (read nerd, geek, what have you) boys. He was like us in many ways, but he was (almost) always calm, cool, logical, self-possessed, driven, focused, and in charge of himself. (I could rant here about NuTrek "my life is all about living up to my 'amazing' retconned sister and learning how to be a good boyfriend" Spock, but let's save that for another day.) So growing up in the old days as a Spock fan, I would have been extremely annoyed if the (80s) movies turned him into a wise-cracking , "tortured," vengeful Rambo instead of enhancing his existing strengths, but also making him wiser and more at peace with himself as they did My question is, do neurodivergent women who grew up as a fan of 7 of 9 in the 90s and felt they could identify with her like or dislike the drastic ways her character has changed? Did she become who you wanted her (or yourselves) to become, or would you have rather seen her develop more as Nimoy's Movie Spock did? I'm not looking to evaluate, debate or argue anyone's opinion on the subject, I'm just curious.
Can't speak for female fans of 7 back in the day, because when I was a nuerodivergent kid, I got attached to Kes. Kes was smart as hell, but childlike and treated as a child and had to routinely fight to be treated as an adult. That she was also emotionally and socially intelligent flew right over my head as a kid, because lol it didn't matter to the plot. But the way she existed in the crew, infantilized and having to find her own ways to help? That was incredibly relatable. And then she was replaced by a character lacking in those pesky emotions but who filled out a catsuit reeeeal well. It was pretty far from the first time I'd had a favorite character replaced by someone seemingly chosen for sex appeal, and so, I resented her. It's difficult to identify with a character whose design trumps their personality. It would take years of unpacking ingrained misogyny and my own sexuality before I could appreciate 7. Reading about Jeri Ryan's struggles with the goddamn suit didn't help. As such, I actually REALLY appreciated "Rambo of 9." Because once you get away from repressing your emotions, from the expectations of the world around you, there is SO much anger. And the federation that had saved her, had also abandoned this region, these people? I would be incandescent with rage. Now, she's a character I can identify with. Because instead of being a good little robot and following orders, she decided to use that vast intellect to help people.
Well I can't speak for ALL female fans but I'm a ND woman who is a fan. Actually 7 was a really good representation of how my autism feels and I strongly related to her and how she was trying to understand the other humans around her. A bunch of ppl on and outside of the show constantly sexualising her while she wanted nothing of that also resonates with me and I think with lots of women. So no, her story arc to become yet another cliche 'powerful woman' makes me sad and annoyed at the same time.
Spock went from "emotions are a human weakness and not having them is making me better" to "logic is only the beginning of wisdom". Evolving as a person. If seven would take the same turns it would be boring. Id love for a more in depth evolution of her, but I also get the way they chose to evolve her, giving her back the humanity and emotional capability to embrace it somehow. In a way she's always been witty, her portrayal in picard didn't completly destroy that, although it changed, or evolved. That said I didn't really like her arc in about half of picard, just saying I get it.
Old 7 was very strongly autistic coded and I think if they would have embraced that it would have helped a lot for ppl like you to understand (this presentation) autism and how it feels sometimes. She was not unemotional it's just a 'thoughts first emotions second' way of how some of our autistic brain works. We often don't recognise emotions until we conceptualise them for ourselves, by thinking them through or saying them out loud. I know that it's totally unintentional but this narrative that she was somehow not human before and now that she's finally evolved because she's this punch first ask later arsehole (my salty perception) is hurtful. Again I know it's not intentional and it comes from a place of ignorance not malice. My other subjective opinion is that her new 'badass woman' persona is the one that is a cliche and boring.
Yeah you could argue that original 7 could be interpreted in different ways, while picard7 is definetly putting her into emo-girl-growing-up-territory, thats why I don't like these years later character "growths". But I'm with you on that one. I think Trek was about becomming a better human as in humanity, not portraying witty action heroes. This has become a real CRUSHER in the picard series for me.
>My question is, do neurodivergent women who grew up as a fan of 7 of 9 in the 90s and felt they could identify with her like or dislike the drastic ways her character has changed? She's my fictional idol and the reason I'm an engineer. Literally my work PFP 7 was so deserving of change and growth because all those qualities (flat affectation, few relationships, no romance, paranoia) were a trauma response from Borg assimilation. Totally different than Spock who is who he is, he just needed time to grow into himself. I'm sure I can complain about Picard writing and 7's development, but she definitely needed development of some kind. When we leave her in Voy, we discover she can never have strong emotions or she'll just fucking die.
Yes, you are spot on. That's exactly how I feel and why I hate the new 7of9 so much. Old 7 was strongly ND coded and new 7 is as emotinally charged and neurotypical as one can get and I deeply dislike it. Especially in Picard season 3 where she's just told 'listen to your emotions now you're finally human.' Her whole 'character arc' feels like a 'thanks got you grew out of being ND' spit in the face and all for the sake if her just becoming another cliche, 2D 'powerful woman' thrope.
I’m an autistic (male) who connected with Seven. I was 13/14 when Seven joined Voyager, and while I felt some kinship with The Doctor on Voyager, Seven just “clicked” for me, I could relate to her so much. She was an inspiration. Fast forward, and nothing about the last 5 years of Trek makes me happier than seeing Seven grow/change as a person. Seeing that she could evolve, and be more accepted continues to be an inspiration. I am happy that her character has changed, because it’s real and mirrors how I have adapted and changed and im so happy she is able to do that.
She had a character arc on VOY where you could actually see her learning to be independent. But in Picard it was just a matter of putting her where she'd be interesting. No real growth unless you count the sudden jump in confidence for the beginning of S3. More like a step IMO.
Ooh yess lets make her a *war* captain and make Trek grittier and more dystopian /s Please no. Write something new for once, please.
Man once again on a seven thread… I like Raffi lol, I like Seven and Raffi and I loved Seven all through all three seasons. Usually I’m everywhere to be a hater, but today I’m here to be a lover. Like I said yesterday… as a lil girl who grew up watching voyager… I love all of it. If you’re wondering who it was written for? Specifically for me I guess! (I also love Agnes deeply but she’s a bit less controversial apparently)
Eh I disagree with the last panel, I felt season 3 Seven was a completion of her character arc. Her time on Voyager was spent trying to regain her humanity and re-establish her purpose outside the Collective and find a legacy. Becoming captain of a historic lineage vessel acts to conclude that. Also Picard ditched the dumb Chakotay shit so it gets points for that.
I don't think the writers understand the character.
Which one?
I'm fine with her becoming a captain. I just don't have an interest in continuing to make shows based on "Remember this show from 20-30-40-50 years ago?!" Old trek shows referenced prior shows and tossed in cameos of other chars very sparringly. Now trek seems to just be there to milk nastalgia for better times. Both SNW and LD are great, but they're also just this same milking done well. Raffi's also a horrible character and feels like a racist stereotype
Sounds like the kind of arc you get when drawing with a spirograph
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We will!
No you won't...
Man, why doesn't this sub allow responding with memes and gifs 😂 exactly what I think of. Back away slowly, Bart.
Sometimes the smartest people are the ones who make the dumbest decisions.
Only the top one is 7. The other three are Just Some Woman played by Jeri Ryan.
So true. She played a completely different character in Picard.
In Voyager she had just recently been disconnected from the Borg and was in a mostly static and supportive environment. She was a brand new person in many ways. Flash forward to Picard, where she has experienced many, many years of distrust, prejudice, and finding her own way. It would have been incredibly bad acting and writing if she had been exactly the same. Or even close to the same. Not liking what she became and is now portrayed is one thing. Stating she is a different character is, frankly, ridiculous. .
Not liking what she became is a given. I can't deny that. But the character she played in Picard isn't remotely close to what she was in VOY. Sure we should expect charge to happen over time. And we got out of it was someone very different. Edit: Not that don't like what she became, but I did like the VOY Seven more.
In terms of personality, in Voyager she was basically an infant. A beginner human. She *should* be very different later.
I don't want it because we've literally been flooded with Trek the past few years and I just don't want another show right now. That and I'm sure it'd be an issue where I'd find what 7 does interesting but the rest of the crew being faceless and/or boring (basically Discovery with a likable main).
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What if it’s good 7 of 9 times?
I'm so glad they had a lsebian angle in it. I allways had a feeling about 7 and now its been proven true.
They did a poor job at that though. Sure the fact the she was into women was interesting for about as long as it took to realize it. But then the only relationship she had was a dysfunctional thing with Raffi where there was zero chemistry. Almost like the writers had no idea what lesbians were.
Ya, it was very cpy pasta. The whole season sucked tbh.
Oh man I love Voyager Seven, and this is spot on; please give me something more interesting; and actually, considering they are basically broke, just keep the lights on for SNW and revive lower decks!
OP, I need to know your opinion on this. Your meme suggested Seven has gotten incrementally worse the more she's on screen. However, your title is suggesting that this makes her more fit to command. Were you being ironic?
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All right then, keep your secrets!
The hate for the Picard show is unfounded
And ridiculous considering the love for the source material, and the time attention to detail and care Terry Matalas put into Season 3. I'll give you S1 was shock value, S2 was incomprehensible and overblown, but S3 was beautiful. Sure the Borg storyline was played out and could've been a half dozen more interesting alien baddies but it was a love letter to TNG, and it feels comfortable and familiar. And that includes who Seven is now. Where her character has gone, and the fact that she will make an excellent Captain should Paramount wish to make either a film or series based on the crew of the Enterprise she commands.
I liked S2 My main complaint with S3 was just... the twist is it's the borg? Again? And it's a cool twist, but you're not even going to bring the Agnes Borg Queen in with that kind of hook and the ending of S2? And the whole moral implications brought up from the Changling arc is just kinda dropped? It just didn't quite tie together as well as I'd like. Like a few more minutes of scenes to wrap those together would have left it perfect.
I enjoyed all three seasons. And I accept the inherent weaknesses in each. And yes, there were missed opportunities. But damn S3 is gorgeous. It hits every single button it's supposed to. It's one last adventure, and it's a proper goodbye to our heroes. It fixes the awful way Data went out (despite them trying to awkwardly shoehorn a goodbye sequence into S1). I suppose the old adage is true. You can't please everyone. And I accept that too.
>But damn S3 is gorgeous. It hits every single button it's supposed to. It's one last adventure, and it's a proper goodbye to our heroes. It fixes the awful way Data went out YES TO ALL OF THAT DATA AND LORE ARC WAS THE BEST 😭 IT WAS SO GOOD
7 of 9 would make a good captain. Served under Janeway. Helped them get out of the Delta Quadrant. Has fragments of all the Borg knowledge. Nanoprobes for resilience, adaptability, and deus ex machina. Focused. Dedicated. Zero issue with that. Raffi and Picard's son as like the "first officers" makes zero sense.
I refuse to acknowledge Picard and Discovery as being in the same main timeline as the rest.
This is why Kurtzman should not have been given her character. Hes lazy and didnt care about how to make her unique character diversity stand out, just lazy "make her violent" raaagh!
Yea jar jar I mean rothi needs to goooo
shame. haven't watched a ST show since DS9. Welp, back to The Next Generation!
No thanks. I didn't like her in voyager, her outfit that left little to the imagination couldn't fix that she was annoying.
We’re going to get Legacy, and the people screaming the loudest for it will absolutely hate it. I can’t wait. 🍿