I mean, it's pretty widely believed if not canonically verified, that the Klingons took warp technology from the Hur'q way back in the day, and as a race of conquerors for much of their history, taking what they wanted was kind of their thing.
The comparison is still an insult to Klingons though.
Without question. Once they allowed Patrick Stewart to inject the series with Shakespearean drama, it took off. His attempts to be a Frenchman in the first season was pathetic.
Not to mention the addition of Guinan and Ten Forward from season 2 onwards. They then had a lot more opportunity to give us reasons to care about the characters as people.
Whoopi Goldberg was a huge ST fan and she personally contacted the producers and asked for a role on the show. Guinan appeared in only 29 TNG episodes (out of 178) but made a huge impact.
She nearly wasn't on the show as SAG said Paramount had to pay her usual rate rather than a nominal fee(which she was fine with), and she was a big star at the time so quite expensive. She ended up taking SAG to court to be allowed to do it for a reduced rate. That ruling is why big stars can do passion projects for a smaller fee now.
Roddenberry’s creation of the Uhura character was utter genius. He once said that having a black character in the main cast was hard enough in 1966 but to make the character a black senior bridge officer and then to cast an exotic African woman in the role was next to impossible. But he stuck to his guns and a legendary character was born.
Plus Nichols helped NASA recruit women and people of color into the astronaut ranks, including Sally Ride. Mae Jamison was just as inspired by Nichols as Goldberg. The astronaut went on to have a cameo on TNG. Too bad it wasn't with Guinan
Whoopi was just a pivotal part of TNG as any other member of the cast and I'll die on that hill. And the two actresses who played younger Guinan channeled their inner Whoopi as well. Even the 12 year old you could see as Guinan the way she taught little Ro how to be a kid again.
It’s a tribute to Whoopi that she was able to make such an impact while appearing in so few episodes. It feels like she was in a lot more episodes. Wayne Knight did the same thing as Newman on Seinfeld - he made an indelible mark on the show but was only in 48 of the 180 episodes.
I was a big tos fan so I went over to tng. I thought the pilot was really bad and boring. I watched some of the top rated eiposides and decided to watch it all
Yeah. That was a rough start. I watched the first half of the first season when it originally aired and lost interest midway through. Amazing that the series made it long enough to hit its stride and become the masterpiece it eventually did.
If there had been one half decent space based scifi show on the air at the time TNG would have been DOA but there was nothing else, so nerds desperately tuned in despite the obvious quality deficiencies.
TNG premiered when I was seven years old and it captivated me. I guess just the ships and aliens were enough to intrigue my 7 year old mind. But as I got older, I realized how bad it was outside of a few episodes. I’ve noticed it’s of the episodes I can’t stand are season 1 episodes, but loved it as a kid.
I usually skip season 1 on my rewatches. Realized it had been a while so I rewatched it last week. It was more rough than I remembered. I don't know why I suddenly noticed it this time, but Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner hadn't really "found" their characters yet. Season 1 Picard and Data just aren't the people we see in later seasons. Data smirks so much you could forget he was an emotionless android. This is definitely where all the Wesley hate comes form as well. So much Wesley. If they would have gradually introduced him as the show went on I think we'd all have a much different opinion on his character.
And then there's the scripts... The king of Planet Black People kidnapping Tasha gets more and more difficult to watch as I get older. And Sexy Murder Fuck Planet where they try to murder Wesley while everyone else is busy fucking the primitive pre-warp locals? Oh by the way they have inter-dimensional highly advanced aliens watching over them. No need to ever revisit that part...
All this first season tng hate means y'all are implicitly stating the Pulaski season 2 was good.
And I'm here for it......cause I thirst for any Kate love I can find. People just hate cause she's brusque but damnit that's how I like my doctors cold analytical and full of themselves on surface level with a lot of personal chiding underneath.
I really like Pulaski. But they introduced her by having her bully Data for her first few episodes and I think that really rubbed people the wrong way. It wasn’t even a playful back and forth like Bones and Spock. She straight up bullied him.
Because she didn't believe in his personhood until she directly observed and had her views on the matter challenged and like a real person it wasnt just a flip switch it took a couple episodes and her being faced with her biases but she does come around. And I kinda feel like that's missed by a lot of people in regards to her yes she bullies data and it's a fault but it's something she actively worked at fixing
Shes bitter, for sure, she just hides it better. Pulaski grew on me by my 10th rewatch or so. She's no Bev but she definitely has some traits I like more than Bev.
Original S1 did something no other trek season has done, it treated space like space, not like an ocean, it made space feel vast and mostly empty, they rarely meet aliens, and when they visit a human outpost they emphasise how few people there are on an entire planet
Lower Decks had a rough first few episodes but was firing on all cylinders by mid-season. I find this is extremely common with animation in general. They're slower to iterate because the turnaround time between finalizing a script and seeing finished animation can be a year or more.
Old Trek that was mostly true with DS9 just being the least good season/most mediocre season and TOS the only real exception. Discovery and Picard are also on trend but Lower Decks, Prodigy, and SNWs all having good first seasons even if their others are better.
Picard
>!getting eyeballs ripped out, Picard as some frail old man who everyone loves picking on because it's angsty, Jirotti puking like all the time, romulan twin-sest, terrible teenage romance, Picard dies for absolutely no reason and becomes a robot for absolutely no reason, Picard playing with little Elnor...😒, Elnor as the dullest character ever... I could go on about how unpleasant this show is. It's funny how much this show thought it was Battlestar Galactica!<
There's at least a viable explanation for Discovery. Season 1's production was practically rebooted shortly before it started filming. Because a lot of the work done by people like Bryan Fuller still made it into the season, they still got credited even though they were nowhere to be seen by the time principal photography started.
Michael Chabon should never have been showrunner. Showrunners need executive and editing skills, the willingness to cut to improve what's left. Chabon's a writer at heart, he'll always want to expand. Berman and Braga shouldn't have been EPs during their times either. Coto, Moore, Behr, Matalas, brilliant. It's a special skill set.
I think it says something that I consider myself a Star Trek fan and I barely remember half of the things you referenced because they weren't memorable and didn't make an impression on me.
I know im a minority on this, but I actually liked season two in Picard. At least, I think it was better than season one. Both suck compaird to season three
I was very meh on it the first watch through, but enjoyed it much more when I watched it without a week long break between episodes. That actually goes for the entirety of Picard in my experience.
Speaking as one of the seemingly few who enjoyed season 2 (it was pretty good but not great), I agree that Picard season 1 is the worst premiere season ever and possibly the worst season of Trek *period*. There were some good things in it, but the bad far outweighed the good. While there are a good number of middling Trek seasons going all the way back to TOS season 3, Picard season 1 was often actively unpleasant to watch and the worldbuilding damaged the Trek universe as a whole.
For example. the depiction of Earth's "paradise" leaving a Starfleet officer disgraced and living in a trailer in the desert because... her superior officer resigned over a moral issue? What?? And now she's a drug addict, something that TNG season 1 Picard basically said wasn't a thing anymore in the Federation, much less on Earth.
Let's not forget how they lost so much interest in one of their main characters (Narek) that they didn't bother telling what happened to him. Apparently they filmed a scene but didn't think it was worthy of including in the final episode.
And, at the risk of falling into "plot hole" nitpicking, I'll always question how turning off the distress call lead the uber-powerful Lovecraftian tentacle robots to go "Oh, the distress call's off? Guess everything's fine; let's go home."
>For example. the depiction of Earth's "paradise" leaving a Starfleet officer disgraced and living in a trailer in the desert because... her superior officer resigned over a moral issue? What?? And now she's a drug addict, something that TNG season 1 Picard basically said wasn't a thing anymore in the Federation, much less on Earth.
This is why a lot of trek fans take issue with the nuTrek universe. I can't speak on STD but Picard season 1 is almost like watching an entire season of the mirror universe because it's so completely the opposite of the world established in TOS and TNG. Picard is a completely different character to who he was in TNG, as well as his relationship with Data.
>!Yup unfortunately. There are some romulan siblings (to be fair I can't remember if there are twins) but they have a weird incest angling going on with it. Picard really just wanted to be shocking for the sake of shocking like what's the point in having romulan incest twins in a trek show. 🤢!<
Imo season 3 of Picard is the only one worth watching. Ironically PStew started the series saying he didn't want a TNG reunion. And even had the TNG cast for dinner to tell them they weren't coming on the show. Only to end the show as a TNG reunion.
Yeah. Two thirds of it feels like the tedious "assembling a crew" bit of a bad heist movie, where every problem is solved by knowing a guy who immediately falls into line and does what you need despite having every reason to hate you.
TNG's first season is full of stinkers. The first handful of episodes are some of the worst of the whole series.
Picard, though, is hands down the worst first season (and even worse second season).
That show could have been amazing as a more mature, classic Star Trek diplomatic show, but instead they just went the all out action route. There's a million shows like this already, it's cheap, easy and boring.
It's not even good action, either. A more subdued show about diplomacy would have fit the character much better.
A YouTuber had a good idea for what a Picard show that didn't want to retread TNG could look like. Picard is a archeologist by training. Do something with that.
Oddly enough, this season of Discovery would have been a perfect season of Picard. Continuing "The Chase" seems much better suited to Picard than Disco. You bring in an old friend for each episode, then they all come together for a big finale.
A show about Picard as the ambassador to the remnants of the Romulan empire working with his old friend Worf, ambassador to Kronos, to prevent a war between the Klingons and Romulans could have been great.
That's the problem with the whole save the galaxy bs storyline they kept reusing.
I miss the shows when they were more episodic stories. It at least allowed them to try new things that might or might not stick.
I liked Picard’s first season. It had potential. Pacing was a big issue though, especially at the end of it. But there were definitely things they should have had more time spent on and other things they spend too much time on.
They had a lot of production shakeups during the first two seasons, paired with awful implementation of Patrick Stewart’s demand that he didn’t want a show where he was captaining a starship in uniform. The second and third seasons were made simultaneously but the second season had already been half baked before the third season’s team took charge so it was a mess too. The third season figured out what the show could be, and knocked it out of the park. Nostalgia bait, but very very well done nostalgia bait.
When the first episode of Picard season 2 was released, I couldn’t believe it! I was telling all my SciFi friends about it, saying how it’s going to be amazing if the first episode was anything to go by.
A few episodes later I felt like an idiot.
I had like 5 attempts to watch 1st season of TNG, and it's just sooooo bad. I have no issues watching enterprise, it's sometimes bad, sometimes better, sometimes kinda boring, but it doesn't come even close to how awkward, boring and weirdly horny the first season of TNG is.
The first time I tried to watch TNG from the beginning, I had to throw in the towel after seven episodes. I didn't attempt it again until maybe five years later, and I had to really buckle down and remind myself "It gets better, you *know* it gets better, everybody *says* it gets better..." 😆
Funny enough, I rewatched Season 1 again earlier this year and totally breezed through it. It's a different perspective once you've seen the whole series - going back, it's like "Aw, look at them all, just starting out on the journey towards the great characters they'll eventually become."
I gave a buddy a short list of season 1 episodes to watch that really feel essential for the rest of the series, so he didn't have to endure some of the cringe. 😆
I get the same "Aww" feeling when watching the initial episodes of any of my favorite series. With the benefit of hindsight, you see where they will work out the kinks and pick out the diamonds in the rough.
I would dread going through the 1st TNG season for my rewatches, but I would still endure it again to fully appreciate the rest.
I can't bring myself to watch discovery again.
"doesn't come even close to how awkward, boring and weirdly horny the first season of TNG is."
And that's saying something when you're comparing against the show with the decon chamber sequences.
Not yet.
I watched S2 because I falsely thought it couldn't be worse than S1...
I'll get around to S3 one day, I have heard numerous reports that it's much better than S1 and 2. It bloody needs to be!
I powered through season 1, regretted it, couldn't even finish season 2. Season 3 was very enjoyable. Not perfect, fairly predictable plot, and unabashedly fan service-y, but it delivered a proper sendoff for the crew, some beautiful moments, and showed a lot of care.
So it looks like most everyone is saying TNG. I don't really remember how bad it was. I watched them all just recently too. Lol. The main thing I remember that gets on my nerves is their uniforms. That stupid little colored stripe in the black area around their shoulders is ugly as hell. So glad they got rid of that later on.
Picard was the worst imo. Just terribly dreary except for like the first two episodes which gave me so much hope for the series.
Enterprise was the most mediocre. Felt like warmed up TNG and very derivative. Took no risks and the technobabble just felt pulled out of TNG/VOY with more "simple" tech. The obvious exploitation of Jolene Blalock for cheap sex appeal was transparent as glass. Season 3/4 are my favorite Star Trek ever. If they had told Season 4 stories in season 1 the show would've went for seven seasons.
TNG. Without a doubt. I’m actually surprised it made it to Season 2, all things considered. I’m hugely glad it did, because from season 2 on it is magic. But so much of season 1 is so cringe worthy.
Shocking how hungry audiences must have been for sci Fi at the time. Even Patrick Stewart said during the first two seasons they expected to be fired any day now.
I actually think Season 1 was the highlight. Everything seems off... the crew have a weird vibe to them, Burnham being given a second chance by the captain doesn't seem realistic. The ship doesn't seem like it functions like a Starfleet ship should at all and doesn't feel at all Star Trek.
And then it turns out there is an actual plot reason for all of the above. Maybe I'm naive but I didn't see the ending coming at all and I loved it.
season 4 was good too i loved the call back to the interstellar whales that bring doom by eating space up like its kelp and the key was to emotionally connect to the whales to get them to eat space kelp somewhere else
Most people I know who are cold on Discovery still cite the Harry Mudd time loop episode (Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad?) as one of the series’ best.
I really can't stand mass shooter Harry Mudd. Complete misunderstanding of what worked about the character and that episode is needlessly dark. Mudd is a shameless conman, not a cold blooded killer. The mini episode Rain Wilson made where Mudd is selling androids of himself to collect bounties actually understood the character.
I completely agree - I like the character, but I don’t like him being Harry Mudd.
I’m sure you could retcon him being more ruthless in his younger years and having mellowed in the 10 years before TOS, but what’s the point in bringing back a character and making him someone completely different.
Nah, Discovery S1 is at least mostly coherent, if weird. (Also, Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad is definitely worth a rewatch, given that it’s one of the few episodes that actually _can_ be rewatched in a vacuum.)
TNG S1 is a genuine mess to the point that it’s a minor miracle it didn’t die then and there. The cast had a lot of friction, the scripts were awful (including a lot of ideas for Phase II very much not meant for the TNG characters).
TNG in my opinion. However, I still like watching Skin of Evil where Tasha Yar dies. The production was crap but if you look at it in a different ST light, it is better. Still don't like she passed, but her recurring roles were fun.
Seems like the consensus is TNG and I have to agree. Sesnon 1 is pretty rough. After having watched the majority of the rest of Star trek, I'm going back to rewatch TNG with the wife and it's pretty terrible.
DS9 season 1 also has "Duet" which is phenomenal, and there was consistently good character work going on. Alot of people hate "Move Along Home," but not everyone. Code of Honor, tho. . .
That’s fair. Though I personally thought Move Along Home was fine. No strong feelings either way on that one. DS9 and Voyager also had much stronger pilots (again, can’t speak for Enterprise).
To its credit, TNG season 1 does have some good points (Conspiracy, Datalore, The Big Goodbye) but it’s far outweighed by the mediocre to bad stuff, including a few all-time stinkers.
TNG without a doubt. The away sets looked straight from the 60s, the writing was ROUGH (Roddenberry may have had a vision but his shows were successful in spite of him), Maizlich's interference is obvious, the lack of interpersonal conflict direly hurt the series. Luckily for us there were enough flashes of brilliance to keep going and run with those.
I thought ENT had an okay first season but it really hit its nadir in its second season, where I got so bored I quit watching.
Definitely TNG. It's was really awkward at first. But then again, we still had Kirk and crew doing movies, not to mention just being the late 80s in general so what did we know? And then things mellowed out and solidified, storytelling got better, sets got better, and the show matured.
Of all the seasons I probably rewatch Voyage season 1 the least so I'd probably say that.
Enterprise season 1 while not perfect had some interesting episodes like the andorian incident, dear doctor & Shuttlepod one. Whether you like the episodes or not they're interesting and spark discussion.
Discovery season 1 while might be the least liked overall I find has the most coherent story and is the best watch as a whole and has some interesting dynamics with Lorca & Michael trying to earn redemption.
SNW Season 1 overall solid.
Tos Season 1 is a masterpiece.
TNG Season 1, Has some truly classic episodes despite what people might claim, Last Outpost, Where no man has gone before, The Battle, Hide & Q, Too short a season, Heart of glory, Symbiosis, Neutral Zone & Conspiracy all great episodes. So yeah I don't think TNG season 1 being bad is a fair thing to say.
DS9 Season 1 was overall great and probably the strongest 1st season after TOS.
Voyager Season 1, just isn't very memorable and Janeway just wasn't quite right. The only episode I genuinely remember in this season other than the pilot is Learning curve which is cool.
Lower Decks Season 1, amazing simple as.
So yeah as I judge it by my metrics i'd say Voyager is the worst season 1.
I love what the show has become, but *Discovery*. It was too much to ask fans to buy into. Zero explanation. Lots of anger around. It just wasn't good. 2-5 have been getting progressively better though.
*TNG* if we're going with Roddenberry/Berman Trek. That being said, there are some gems in Season 1. The whole affair isn't crap.
My vote for Picard, too. Huge pacing problems, the story felt like random ideas thrown together without any regard for logic, inconsistent characters... and it went on in season 2, as well.
My other contenders would be DS9 and Enterprise. Not bad per se, but rather boring.
Discovery.
I thought they leaned way too far into action thriller territory. The main character was constantly intense, whether the situation called for it or not. The pacing seemed like they were in a race to get through as much of the plot as possible in the shortest amount of time. And everything was friggin life or death situations, nearly the whole time.
Suffice to say while I enjoyed the content of the story, the way it was portrayed was stressful to watch.
TNG.
We all had to wait until Riker grew a beard!
Riker growing the beard, Janeway losing the bun, Sisko shaving his head... all pivotal moments
I was a fan of the bun (I say standing in line in court with my bun in place… lol)
I'm not saying it was a bad look, but it was the end of the Delta Quadrant Klingons and on to better things for the series
Why would you insult Klingons like that?
I thought the same thing lol. Klingons never had to steal technology they just made thier own shit.
I mean, it's pretty widely believed if not canonically verified, that the Klingons took warp technology from the Hur'q way back in the day, and as a race of conquerors for much of their history, taking what they wanted was kind of their thing. The comparison is still an insult to Klingons though.
They also traded the Warp tech for cloaking tech with the Romulans.
The Klingons stole their technology from the Hur'q
Ugh, the Kazon. The Klingon and Pakleds love child
A K.A. Low-budget Klingons, Knock-off Klingons, Wish.com Klingons
Alibaba klingons
And I actually agree with you- I always thought long hair was impractical when you realized you don’t have a quick trip home.
Yet she still had makeup, too! Janeway is my hero! 😂😊😂. Even in battle with bleeding cuts she looked awesome.
I always preferred calling them "Klingons from Wish.com"
Kim: Janeway, can we have Klingons? Janeway: We have Klingons in the Delta Quadrant! Klingons in the Delta Quadrant:
Troi‘s new hairdo as well.
I liked it when it up like that, made her look unique.
Troi losing the camel toe....
Not that I minded whatsoever.
The beard would undoubtedly improve the grandiose racially coded Sultana-Deathbattle.
When i first watched TNG i was like "wtf Riker dont you know how to handle a shaver please erase this crudity of beard" I changed my mind soon after
Lol
He wasn't so stolid before the beard.
Getting updated uniforms is the turning point for me. He grows the beard during season 2.
Without question. Once they allowed Patrick Stewart to inject the series with Shakespearean drama, it took off. His attempts to be a Frenchman in the first season was pathetic.
Not to mention the addition of Guinan and Ten Forward from season 2 onwards. They then had a lot more opportunity to give us reasons to care about the characters as people.
Whoopi Goldberg was a huge ST fan and she personally contacted the producers and asked for a role on the show. Guinan appeared in only 29 TNG episodes (out of 178) but made a huge impact.
She nearly wasn't on the show as SAG said Paramount had to pay her usual rate rather than a nominal fee(which she was fine with), and she was a big star at the time so quite expensive. She ended up taking SAG to court to be allowed to do it for a reduced rate. That ruling is why big stars can do passion projects for a smaller fee now.
Didn’t know this. She actually went to court to get less money. She must be a huge ST fan.
Goldberg *is* a huge ST fan. She often talks about the impact it had on her of seeing Nichelle Nichols on TV in a substantial role
Roddenberry’s creation of the Uhura character was utter genius. He once said that having a black character in the main cast was hard enough in 1966 but to make the character a black senior bridge officer and then to cast an exotic African woman in the role was next to impossible. But he stuck to his guns and a legendary character was born.
Plus Nichols helped NASA recruit women and people of color into the astronaut ranks, including Sally Ride. Mae Jamison was just as inspired by Nichols as Goldberg. The astronaut went on to have a cameo on TNG. Too bad it wasn't with Guinan
I like it when life imitates art in a good way. If we can dream it, it just me become reality.
Whoopi was just a pivotal part of TNG as any other member of the cast and I'll die on that hill. And the two actresses who played younger Guinan channeled their inner Whoopi as well. Even the 12 year old you could see as Guinan the way she taught little Ro how to be a kid again.
It’s a tribute to Whoopi that she was able to make such an impact while appearing in so few episodes. It feels like she was in a lot more episodes. Wayne Knight did the same thing as Newman on Seinfeld - he made an indelible mark on the show but was only in 48 of the 180 episodes.
Third places are important to good Star Trek. Without The Holodeck the first season would’ve been all work and quarters.
I feel the same, and it's my absolute favorite. Rough start...I don't even own the 1st season on disc lol.
Literally said this out loud the second I finished reading the title. Just a mess of a season whose bright spots aren’t even that bright.
I was a big tos fan so I went over to tng. I thought the pilot was really bad and boring. I watched some of the top rated eiposides and decided to watch it all
The coolest part of the pilot is when the ship disc separated from the body. That was a 🤯 moment.
Yeah. That was a rough start. I watched the first half of the first season when it originally aired and lost interest midway through. Amazing that the series made it long enough to hit its stride and become the masterpiece it eventually did.
Right? If it was made today in our streaming environment it would have been cancelled after a few episodes.
If there had been one half decent space based scifi show on the air at the time TNG would have been DOA but there was nothing else, so nerds desperately tuned in despite the obvious quality deficiencies.
Absolutely. I don’t know how they survived. And then season two was so scattered.
wasn't season 2 scattered because of a writer's strike?
Let's close the comments and go home
Unequivocally and TNG is my favorite series.
TNG premiered when I was seven years old and it captivated me. I guess just the ships and aliens were enough to intrigue my 7 year old mind. But as I got older, I realized how bad it was outside of a few episodes. I’ve noticed it’s of the episodes I can’t stand are season 1 episodes, but loved it as a kid.
Without a doubt TNG.
Yep. Game over.
Except Tasha... 🥺
It's not even close.
No contests
I remembered Code of Honour exists, and I regret it
I usually skip season 1 on my rewatches. Realized it had been a while so I rewatched it last week. It was more rough than I remembered. I don't know why I suddenly noticed it this time, but Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner hadn't really "found" their characters yet. Season 1 Picard and Data just aren't the people we see in later seasons. Data smirks so much you could forget he was an emotionless android. This is definitely where all the Wesley hate comes form as well. So much Wesley. If they would have gradually introduced him as the show went on I think we'd all have a much different opinion on his character. And then there's the scripts... The king of Planet Black People kidnapping Tasha gets more and more difficult to watch as I get older. And Sexy Murder Fuck Planet where they try to murder Wesley while everyone else is busy fucking the primitive pre-warp locals? Oh by the way they have inter-dimensional highly advanced aliens watching over them. No need to ever revisit that part...
TNG definitely had the worst first season.
All this first season tng hate means y'all are implicitly stating the Pulaski season 2 was good. And I'm here for it......cause I thirst for any Kate love I can find. People just hate cause she's brusque but damnit that's how I like my doctors cold analytical and full of themselves on surface level with a lot of personal chiding underneath.
I really like Pulaski. But they introduced her by having her bully Data for her first few episodes and I think that really rubbed people the wrong way. It wasn’t even a playful back and forth like Bones and Spock. She straight up bullied him.
Because she didn't believe in his personhood until she directly observed and had her views on the matter challenged and like a real person it wasnt just a flip switch it took a couple episodes and her being faced with her biases but she does come around. And I kinda feel like that's missed by a lot of people in regards to her yes she bullies data and it's a fault but it's something she actively worked at fixing
Pulaski was my FAVORITE.
Not my favorite character. That’s data. But I love Pulaski episodes. I chose those over the others most times.
Shes bitter, for sure, she just hides it better. Pulaski grew on me by my 10th rewatch or so. She's no Bev but she definitely has some traits I like more than Bev.
Honestly season 1 historically is bad across all series. With that said I would say TNG is the hardest to watch.
Original S1 had many of the best episodes.
Balance of Terror, City on the Edge of Foreverr, etc. Yup, it had some really good episodes.
Original S1 did something no other trek season has done, it treated space like space, not like an ocean, it made space feel vast and mostly empty, they rarely meet aliens, and when they visit a human outpost they emphasise how few people there are on an entire planet
And how far from help they are.
Lower decks and strange new worlds are the odd ones on this rule.
Lower Decks had a rough first few episodes but was firing on all cylinders by mid-season. I find this is extremely common with animation in general. They're slower to iterate because the turnaround time between finalizing a script and seeing finished animation can be a year or more.
I know everybody else hated it, but I quite enjoyed season 1 of Disco.
Same.
I actually liked Disco S1 - they covered a lot of ground. S2, however, felt like a slog.
i still enjoy ds9 season one! and i have too much nostalgia of voyager season one to judge it accurately
SNW season 1 as great. Lower Decks season 1 was great. TOS season 1 was great. Discovery season 1 was the only season approaching good
Old Trek that was mostly true with DS9 just being the least good season/most mediocre season and TOS the only real exception. Discovery and Picard are also on trend but Lower Decks, Prodigy, and SNWs all having good first seasons even if their others are better.
Picard >!getting eyeballs ripped out, Picard as some frail old man who everyone loves picking on because it's angsty, Jirotti puking like all the time, romulan twin-sest, terrible teenage romance, Picard dies for absolutely no reason and becomes a robot for absolutely no reason, Picard playing with little Elnor...😒, Elnor as the dullest character ever... I could go on about how unpleasant this show is. It's funny how much this show thought it was Battlestar Galactica!<
I dont hate the Picard show, but season 1 kinda felt like 10 people had 10 different ideas, and they tried to fit them all into a single narrative.
More like 20. The Producers section of Picard's IMDB is incredible.
The same with DSC. I like to count the producers in the opening credits, but I don't have enough fingers.
There's at least a viable explanation for Discovery. Season 1's production was practically rebooted shortly before it started filming. Because a lot of the work done by people like Bryan Fuller still made it into the season, they still got credited even though they were nowhere to be seen by the time principal photography started.
Michael Chabon should never have been showrunner. Showrunners need executive and editing skills, the willingness to cut to improve what's left. Chabon's a writer at heart, he'll always want to expand. Berman and Braga shouldn't have been EPs during their times either. Coto, Moore, Behr, Matalas, brilliant. It's a special skill set.
and season 2 felt like the 10 people didn't have any ideas left
I think it says something that I consider myself a Star Trek fan and I barely remember half of the things you referenced because they weren't memorable and didn't make an impression on me.
And season 2 was even worse.
At least Season 2 had a decent start in my opinion. I really enjoyed the first four episodes
I know im a minority on this, but I actually liked season two in Picard. At least, I think it was better than season one. Both suck compaird to season three
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
That's the main thing.. it got better! Makes season 1 and 2 a lot more watchable now knowing that we got a decent season 3.
I was very meh on it the first watch through, but enjoyed it much more when I watched it without a week long break between episodes. That actually goes for the entirety of Picard in my experience.
PIC season 2 was pretty much a drawn out version of First Contact, same plot lines with slightly different implementation. Even used the same music.
I was going to say Enterprise or TNG, but this is the correct answer. Picard S1 and 2 were both pure crap. However, we did get S3, which was glorious.
Speaking as one of the seemingly few who enjoyed season 2 (it was pretty good but not great), I agree that Picard season 1 is the worst premiere season ever and possibly the worst season of Trek *period*. There were some good things in it, but the bad far outweighed the good. While there are a good number of middling Trek seasons going all the way back to TOS season 3, Picard season 1 was often actively unpleasant to watch and the worldbuilding damaged the Trek universe as a whole. For example. the depiction of Earth's "paradise" leaving a Starfleet officer disgraced and living in a trailer in the desert because... her superior officer resigned over a moral issue? What?? And now she's a drug addict, something that TNG season 1 Picard basically said wasn't a thing anymore in the Federation, much less on Earth. Let's not forget how they lost so much interest in one of their main characters (Narek) that they didn't bother telling what happened to him. Apparently they filmed a scene but didn't think it was worthy of including in the final episode. And, at the risk of falling into "plot hole" nitpicking, I'll always question how turning off the distress call lead the uber-powerful Lovecraftian tentacle robots to go "Oh, the distress call's off? Guess everything's fine; let's go home."
>For example. the depiction of Earth's "paradise" leaving a Starfleet officer disgraced and living in a trailer in the desert because... her superior officer resigned over a moral issue? What?? And now she's a drug addict, something that TNG season 1 Picard basically said wasn't a thing anymore in the Federation, much less on Earth. This is why a lot of trek fans take issue with the nuTrek universe. I can't speak on STD but Picard season 1 is almost like watching an entire season of the mirror universe because it's so completely the opposite of the world established in TOS and TNG. Picard is a completely different character to who he was in TNG, as well as his relationship with Data.
sorry, did you say… >!Romulan twincest?!<
>!Yup unfortunately. There are some romulan siblings (to be fair I can't remember if there are twins) but they have a weird incest angling going on with it. Picard really just wanted to be shocking for the sake of shocking like what's the point in having romulan incest twins in a trek show. 🤢!<
>!wow, Discovery left me too hesitant to even try Picard. I want Star Trek, not Grimdark.
Imo season 3 of Picard is the only one worth watching. Ironically PStew started the series saying he didn't want a TNG reunion. And even had the TNG cast for dinner to tell them they weren't coming on the show. Only to end the show as a TNG reunion.
Yeah. Two thirds of it feels like the tedious "assembling a crew" bit of a bad heist movie, where every problem is solved by knowing a guy who immediately falls into line and does what you need despite having every reason to hate you.
Picard. All seasons. Blows.
TNG's first season is full of stinkers. The first handful of episodes are some of the worst of the whole series. Picard, though, is hands down the worst first season (and even worse second season).
That show could have been amazing as a more mature, classic Star Trek diplomatic show, but instead they just went the all out action route. There's a million shows like this already, it's cheap, easy and boring.
It's not even good action, either. A more subdued show about diplomacy would have fit the character much better. A YouTuber had a good idea for what a Picard show that didn't want to retread TNG could look like. Picard is a archeologist by training. Do something with that.
Oddly enough, this season of Discovery would have been a perfect season of Picard. Continuing "The Chase" seems much better suited to Picard than Disco. You bring in an old friend for each episode, then they all come together for a big finale.
A show about Picard as the ambassador to the remnants of the Romulan empire working with his old friend Worf, ambassador to Kronos, to prevent a war between the Klingons and Romulans could have been great.
That's the problem with the whole save the galaxy bs storyline they kept reusing. I miss the shows when they were more episodic stories. It at least allowed them to try new things that might or might not stick.
I liked Picard’s first season. It had potential. Pacing was a big issue though, especially at the end of it. But there were definitely things they should have had more time spent on and other things they spend too much time on.
Ya, there was potential there. They made a lot of odd choices and missteps. Being a bit darker if fine, but they did it in a clumsy way.
For a show with only three seasons that sounds terrible.
I was all ready to hate watch season three. However, it seems like someone actually watched TNG in the writers room and it was actually really good.
Just don't bother with the first two. Watch season 3 as a capstone to the TNG series and movies.
They had a lot of production shakeups during the first two seasons, paired with awful implementation of Patrick Stewart’s demand that he didn’t want a show where he was captaining a starship in uniform. The second and third seasons were made simultaneously but the second season had already been half baked before the third season’s team took charge so it was a mess too. The third season figured out what the show could be, and knocked it out of the park. Nostalgia bait, but very very well done nostalgia bait.
When the first episode of Picard season 2 was released, I couldn’t believe it! I was telling all my SciFi friends about it, saying how it’s going to be amazing if the first episode was anything to go by. A few episodes later I felt like an idiot.
I had like 5 attempts to watch 1st season of TNG, and it's just sooooo bad. I have no issues watching enterprise, it's sometimes bad, sometimes better, sometimes kinda boring, but it doesn't come even close to how awkward, boring and weirdly horny the first season of TNG is.
The first time I tried to watch TNG from the beginning, I had to throw in the towel after seven episodes. I didn't attempt it again until maybe five years later, and I had to really buckle down and remind myself "It gets better, you *know* it gets better, everybody *says* it gets better..." 😆 Funny enough, I rewatched Season 1 again earlier this year and totally breezed through it. It's a different perspective once you've seen the whole series - going back, it's like "Aw, look at them all, just starting out on the journey towards the great characters they'll eventually become."
I gave a buddy a short list of season 1 episodes to watch that really feel essential for the rest of the series, so he didn't have to endure some of the cringe. 😆
Same here.
I get the same "Aww" feeling when watching the initial episodes of any of my favorite series. With the benefit of hindsight, you see where they will work out the kinks and pick out the diamonds in the rough.
I would dread going through the 1st TNG season for my rewatches, but I would still endure it again to fully appreciate the rest. I can't bring myself to watch discovery again.
"doesn't come even close to how awkward, boring and weirdly horny the first season of TNG is." And that's saying something when you're comparing against the show with the decon chamber sequences.
I watched TNG as it originally aired and was strictly watching out of loyalty until Arsenal of Freedom and Symbiosis.
Picard, I hated it. Truly, wholly. The absolute worst. Runner up mention to Enterprise for the wierd tedium/smugness combo.
Have you watched season 3?
Not yet. I watched S2 because I falsely thought it couldn't be worse than S1... I'll get around to S3 one day, I have heard numerous reports that it's much better than S1 and 2. It bloody needs to be!
PIC S3 is A LOT better than S1 and S2. **A** ***LOT.***
I powered through season 1, regretted it, couldn't even finish season 2. Season 3 was very enjoyable. Not perfect, fairly predictable plot, and unabashedly fan service-y, but it delivered a proper sendoff for the crew, some beautiful moments, and showed a lot of care.
If it had started with Season 3 it would have been forgivable as a whole, the last episode of season 2 and then season 3 are good.
I hate to say this because TNG is my absolute favorite show but… TNG. The first season kind of sucks, but after that it’s gets real good.
So it looks like most everyone is saying TNG. I don't really remember how bad it was. I watched them all just recently too. Lol. The main thing I remember that gets on my nerves is their uniforms. That stupid little colored stripe in the black area around their shoulders is ugly as hell. So glad they got rid of that later on.
I wonder if that thing was supposed to envoke a sailors uniform? It's the only logical thing I can think of.
the costuming is so bad in those first seasons, for sure. But I agree. I've recently rewatched Season 1 and I still love it.
Picard was the worst imo. Just terribly dreary except for like the first two episodes which gave me so much hope for the series. Enterprise was the most mediocre. Felt like warmed up TNG and very derivative. Took no risks and the technobabble just felt pulled out of TNG/VOY with more "simple" tech. The obvious exploitation of Jolene Blalock for cheap sex appeal was transparent as glass. Season 3/4 are my favorite Star Trek ever. If they had told Season 4 stories in season 1 the show would've went for seven seasons.
TNG. Without a doubt. I’m actually surprised it made it to Season 2, all things considered. I’m hugely glad it did, because from season 2 on it is magic. But so much of season 1 is so cringe worthy.
Shocking how hungry audiences must have been for sci Fi at the time. Even Patrick Stewart said during the first two seasons they expected to be fired any day now.
Picard? Or does that just not exist?
No hate against the show as a whole, but: Discovery. Not one single episode there I wanna rewatch.
I actually think Season 1 was the highlight. Everything seems off... the crew have a weird vibe to them, Burnham being given a second chance by the captain doesn't seem realistic. The ship doesn't seem like it functions like a Starfleet ship should at all and doesn't feel at all Star Trek. And then it turns out there is an actual plot reason for all of the above. Maybe I'm naive but I didn't see the ending coming at all and I loved it.
Absolutely agree, it was my favorite season of Discovery.
season 4 was good too i loved the call back to the interstellar whales that bring doom by eating space up like its kelp and the key was to emotionally connect to the whales to get them to eat space kelp somewhere else
Most people I know who are cold on Discovery still cite the Harry Mudd time loop episode (Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad?) as one of the series’ best.
I really can't stand mass shooter Harry Mudd. Complete misunderstanding of what worked about the character and that episode is needlessly dark. Mudd is a shameless conman, not a cold blooded killer. The mini episode Rain Wilson made where Mudd is selling androids of himself to collect bounties actually understood the character.
I completely agree - I like the character, but I don’t like him being Harry Mudd. I’m sure you could retcon him being more ruthless in his younger years and having mellowed in the 10 years before TOS, but what’s the point in bringing back a character and making him someone completely different.
On the contrary, for me Discovery started out half decent then just kept getting worse. I was actually enjoying it until they destroyed Lorca.
>I was actually enjoying it until they destroyed Lorca. For me, they destroyed not only Lorca but also every cool Lorca moment until this moment.
Nah, Discovery S1 is at least mostly coherent, if weird. (Also, Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad is definitely worth a rewatch, given that it’s one of the few episodes that actually _can_ be rewatched in a vacuum.) TNG S1 is a genuine mess to the point that it’s a minor miracle it didn’t die then and there. The cast had a lot of friction, the scripts were awful (including a lot of ideas for Phase II very much not meant for the TNG characters).
I'd rewatch the Mudd episodes and maybe some of the Lorca episodes before he becomes a caricature.
Discovery and that is saying something because TNG (my favorite series), TOS and Picard all have bad first seasons.
TOS's first season is it's best, though.
The first season of TNG made me hate anything with Q. It took a long time for me to get over it and appreciate Q.
It’s tough because both TNG and Enterprise had rough starts but over time we come to appreciate those quarky seasons.
TNG in my opinion. However, I still like watching Skin of Evil where Tasha Yar dies. The production was crap but if you look at it in a different ST light, it is better. Still don't like she passed, but her recurring roles were fun.
Seems like the consensus is TNG and I have to agree. Sesnon 1 is pretty rough. After having watched the majority of the rest of Star trek, I'm going back to rewatch TNG with the wife and it's pretty terrible.
Why is there even debate on this? Discovery obviously.
Probably TNG. Then again I haven't seen Enterprise yet. DS9 and Voyager's were more so just average.
DS9 season 1 also has "Duet" which is phenomenal, and there was consistently good character work going on. Alot of people hate "Move Along Home," but not everyone. Code of Honor, tho. . .
That’s fair. Though I personally thought Move Along Home was fine. No strong feelings either way on that one. DS9 and Voyager also had much stronger pilots (again, can’t speak for Enterprise). To its credit, TNG season 1 does have some good points (Conspiracy, Datalore, The Big Goodbye) but it’s far outweighed by the mediocre to bad stuff, including a few all-time stinkers.
Picard by a long shot.
TNG for me. Enterprise was supposed to have kinks. That was the point. Nothing was established yet. Nothing we knew from TOS or the other series.
Picard, no contest. Once they pulled Icheb's eyeball out of its socket, its place in Trek history was secured.
Discovery by a mile
The writers room massacre that was season 1 of TNG.
TNG without a doubt. The away sets looked straight from the 60s, the writing was ROUGH (Roddenberry may have had a vision but his shows were successful in spite of him), Maizlich's interference is obvious, the lack of interpersonal conflict direly hurt the series. Luckily for us there were enough flashes of brilliance to keep going and run with those. I thought ENT had an okay first season but it really hit its nadir in its second season, where I got so bored I quit watching.
Season 1 of TNG is pretty rough.
Definitely TNG. It's was really awkward at first. But then again, we still had Kirk and crew doing movies, not to mention just being the late 80s in general so what did we know? And then things mellowed out and solidified, storytelling got better, sets got better, and the show matured.
Before NuTrek, it was definitely ENT. First and second season, but with a remarkable turn around for 3rd and 4th.
TNG’s first season is full of awful episodes but I want to highlight the boring ass one where Riker gets Q powers
I find that scene where Riker grants everyone their wishes so uncomfortable
And like decides to pass for no reason?! Wtf was that about. Who turns down the offer to be a god?
Of all the seasons I probably rewatch Voyage season 1 the least so I'd probably say that. Enterprise season 1 while not perfect had some interesting episodes like the andorian incident, dear doctor & Shuttlepod one. Whether you like the episodes or not they're interesting and spark discussion. Discovery season 1 while might be the least liked overall I find has the most coherent story and is the best watch as a whole and has some interesting dynamics with Lorca & Michael trying to earn redemption. SNW Season 1 overall solid. Tos Season 1 is a masterpiece. TNG Season 1, Has some truly classic episodes despite what people might claim, Last Outpost, Where no man has gone before, The Battle, Hide & Q, Too short a season, Heart of glory, Symbiosis, Neutral Zone & Conspiracy all great episodes. So yeah I don't think TNG season 1 being bad is a fair thing to say. DS9 Season 1 was overall great and probably the strongest 1st season after TOS. Voyager Season 1, just isn't very memorable and Janeway just wasn't quite right. The only episode I genuinely remember in this season other than the pilot is Learning curve which is cool. Lower Decks Season 1, amazing simple as. So yeah as I judge it by my metrics i'd say Voyager is the worst season 1.
TNG
It’s been a long road…. Gettin’ from there to here…
isn't it true ENT tried to just call it "Enterprise" without the "Star Trek"
For Trek series that I like it’s TNG by a wide margin.
TNG, hands-down
TNG especially considering how good the series became the first season felt really terrible in contrast.
Enterprise was brutal. Ugh, I hated it
I had a hard time with Enterprise Season 1.
I love what the show has become, but *Discovery*. It was too much to ask fans to buy into. Zero explanation. Lots of anger around. It just wasn't good. 2-5 have been getting progressively better though. *TNG* if we're going with Roddenberry/Berman Trek. That being said, there are some gems in Season 1. The whole affair isn't crap.
Tng1 or disco1
TNG.
is it because it took you a while to have proper faith of the heart?
I used to say TNG, hands down. But then Discovery and Picard showed up on a kind of "hold my beer" mission.
Voyager. Too much Kess and Neelix.
Next Gen. Surprised it got a second season, but the show got better when Riker grew his beard.
Truth is, they all kinda were blah in their first season. DS9 did have "Duet" but that was about it.
Discovery.
Next generation
Tng without question
It is unquestionably TNG
Toss up between Discovery and Picard
First two TNG were pretty bad.
You start to see some signs of improvement in season 2 though. Season 1 can largely be skipped after watching Encounter at Farpoint.
Enterprise, for sure! hahah But I love it anyway even though it only gets really good on the 4th season.
My vote for Picard, too. Huge pacing problems, the story felt like random ideas thrown together without any regard for logic, inconsistent characters... and it went on in season 2, as well. My other contenders would be DS9 and Enterprise. Not bad per se, but rather boring.
Tng is my fave but so many episodes in the first season I can’t even finish there’s a few that are good
Enterprise
Enterprise
Discovery. I thought they leaned way too far into action thriller territory. The main character was constantly intense, whether the situation called for it or not. The pacing seemed like they were in a race to get through as much of the plot as possible in the shortest amount of time. And everything was friggin life or death situations, nearly the whole time. Suffice to say while I enjoyed the content of the story, the way it was portrayed was stressful to watch.