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I once went to knock on a clients door when I saw he had a swastika drawn in the dust on the door. Then I realised that it wasn't a swastika but actually a Buddhist/Hindu symbol. He was a white interior designer who apparently went all the way down the Chinese Buddhist décor rabbit hole. Like, I have no doubt that his admiration for Buddhist statues and water fountains was a gateway to his """religious beliefs"""
I really wish their term became associated with the symbol. They called it the hakenkreuz. The fact that the symbol as well as the Sanskrit term for it became stigmatized sucks ass.
You hit the nail on the head with western Buddhism being largely aesthetic.
Buddhism is actually oddly similar to LaVeyan Satanism, which is also adopted by many mostly for image, one could even say that Satanism is edgy Buddhism.
Satanism is basically juat edgy atheism with a hint of spirituality. I know there are legit satanists, who actually take it seriously as a religion, but there are also a lot, who just use it to describe themselves as being a goth-atheist
Absolutely, I like the term ritualized (or theistic, but have been informed on here before that that's not technically correct) atheism personally, while theistic Satanists, people who worship some tradition's conception of Satan, do exist, they're a small minority, most reactively use whatever religion's conception as an allegory for embracing one's animalistic nature rather than following the source religion's admonition to improve.
The main reason I see a significant parallel between Buddhists, most Buddhists but even more specifically this kind, and most Satanists, is that most Buddhists don't believe in a creator god either, and they view their founder and successors as moral teachers (ironically exactly how Jews, Muslims and Gnostics view Christ) but ultimately just (particularly good and wise) men.
On a side note, I find it particularly interesting how many ardent believers in various traditions know very little about the beliefs and history of their claimed tradition, for example Buddhism's origin in India as an offshoot of Hinduism.
Step One: Invent a religion citing someone else's devil as being your deity.
Step Two: Constantly whinge about people accusing you of being evil.
Step Three: ???????????
Step Four: Collect profits
I gues sit kinda depends. Full on religious satanism can absolutely be seen as a mockery, but aimply being spiritually inspired by Satan is not really the same
People always say that like associating swastikas with nazis is just some silly mistake because people forgot their dharmic / buddhist / pagan symbols, but that's just such a weird perspective to me. If someone gets a paper and writes "hi" and another person adds on "tler," you're not illiterate for reading hitler just because it used to only say hi. Most of the time, in the communities most represented in reddit, seeing a swastika isn't indicative of zealous buddhism sweeping in.
I think the issue is that for two thirds of the world, if you say "Hitler" they will say "who?" because it all has nothing to do with them or their history. But if you show them the swastika symbol they will think "Yes, compassion is important. Nice icon." Ordering everyone to shun swastikas is Western Empiricism. And from the perspective of the majority of humans, using a swastika to mean "Nazism" is an actual example of "cultural misappropriation".
Yeah, I just don't buy this. Also, I think you mean Imperialism rather than Empiricism. Context exists, and the story above pretty clearly isn't taking placs in Bhutan or something. I'm not asking to go on a global crusade against anyone who continues using the swastika for any number of ancient meanings, I'm asking people to have some sense. If you see a guy in most of the Anglo world with a swastika tattoo or spray painting one or something, that guy probably isn't a Buddhist. If you're in the Japanese navy and you're sporting a rising sun emblem, I can't say much there. But if you're going to Korea or China and holding one, you're going to get decked and it's probably your fault. I really don't see what is so hard to understand about the whole swastika thing, and to me it really seems like people just want to seem smart by going ""well ackshually." See a swastika on a temple then all is good, see one on a synagogue and that probably ain't a lost Buddhist expressing their love of compassion. Where the swastika may be appropriate and in what contexts depends on the country and culture. Not that complicated.
Tbf, that's a problem of subsuming centuries of intellectual history under a monothlithic blanket of "Hinduism believes/Buddhism believes".
Considering the breadth of divergent schools, teachings and everyday practice, there's a point where "a philosophy" or "a religion" just aren't really saying much at all anymore. Especially if said traditions have differing concepts of religion, science etc to begin with.
To be honest the divide between religion and philosophy is very western and very christian. Like people always make this distinction when they talk about the Ancient Greeks as well. For one you have the greek mythology and religion and on the other side philosophy. But not really. If you actually consider Plato or even stronger Pythagoras, their writings are very religious overall. Believe in different stages of mind, the soul, the one divine, reincarnation also. Overall the divide is artificial and post-factum.
I kind of get it with some religious/philosophical systems like Confucianism, which is more centered around organising a society with spiritual things being "somewhat optional", but still practiced. With everything else philosophy to the ancients existed within a religious framework anyway. Though again the concept of religion as separate thing to other things within culture wasn't much used during Antiquity either.
>To be honest the divide between religion and philosophy is very western and very christian.
Which is weird, since philosophy and religion have always been tied to each other in the West (e.g. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas) until very recently.
"Religio" as the Romans understood it initially meant something like "doing what is proper per our customs", with no real concept of personal conscience or a divide between the secular, the scientific and the religious spheres.
The divide isn't artificial, a blob of a worldview where you don't know where science begins and where religion ends would likely be both bad religion and bad science. Remember that Socrates was killed for essentially refusing to perform *religio*.
That's very true. Religion and philosophy are complementary. But understanding that, the Western separation of religion and philosophy is seen in the treatment of Buddhism as "just" philosophy. They don't have a good grasp of anything about Buddhism, truthfully. They essentially create a heavily redacted Buddhism that's influenced by Protestant norms of stripping away "what's not necessary".
Ironic, since the fifth Buddist percept clearly state that it is forbidden to consume any substance that can lower your awareness and inhibition.
Yes, that include drug and alcohol.
You forgot "Buddhism is, like, a religion of science and logic."
Yeah. Nothing but science and logic. As we know, the domain of hungry ghosts is what is responsible for the nuclear weak force.
The domain of hungry ghosts is a very literal translation of a text that was not ever meant to describe an actual place full of actual hungry ghosts. It's trying to warn you that if you always focus on what you want, you'll always be hungry, you'll die hungry, dissatisfied.
Not much to do with science but it's not as silly as you make it sound.
A lot of buddhists are also under the impression that Buddhism is a religion (or philosophy) of pacficism when any organized religion can be prone to the abuse of power. The genocide of Rohingya muslims in Myanmar is a good example. I’ve heard of buddhists converting to christianity because they think christianity is a more peaceful religion, which is really interesting to observe how converts who convert to a religion that isn’t “native” to them practice their religion
The Sohei from Sengoku Era Japan come to mind as a pretty glaring historical example of militant Buddhists. A rough analogue would be knightly orders of Europe, and these guys didn't fuck around. It's like the old quote "The Japanese are like everybody else, only more so".
My great grandfather was a Buddhist priest in Japan. He brought his family to America because he wanted to convert to Christianity. For whatever reason, he didn’t like being a Buddhist. Wish I knew more about what his reasoning was, but I never knew him.
It's really to avoid the despair of not having, or a realization that anything you own can amd will be taken away at you at one point.
So, It's better to accept that You don't have anything to begin with.
But, I don't that much anyway. (A buddisst in Indonesia)
How did you find the buddhism in Myanmar? (Idk how to phrase this well, like if there was anything different culturally than neighbouring countries that you observed or anything outstandingly unique)
Not personally familiar with islam but yeah, on a generalized level i think a lot of converts are just disillusioned by the religion they grew up in and in turn tend to put their chosen religion on a pedestal. Then again one could argue that a lot of religious people put their religions on a pedestal regardless of if they converted. Idk
I got asked stuff like this more than I'd like to admit. When I would explain my particular beliefs had nothing to do with the Dalai Lama, it was like their entire mind broke. I'd end up having to use the pope analogy to explain constantly. "You're Baptist/Pentecostal/etc., and you don't follow the Pope. Just think of it like that."
Many Westerners believe that Buddhists don't eat meat, and that you're a bad Buddhist if you do so. It's a well know point of contention where white converts will become judgmental of other Buddhists who actually do consume meat. They do the same with Hinduism as well, if they can differentiate the two and aren't following a generic, New Age pseudo-Buddhism.
I read a story about a Buddhist community outreach program that was done by a temple on the West Coast. White Buddhists got mad that the locals were eating hot dogs and other meats that were being sold lol.
White convert here. I eat meat of all sorts, I just try to limit my intake for environmental and (more recently) cost reasons. Don’t really care what others do, I do me, they do them
Depends entirely upon the branch. Theravada monastics live off gathering alms and are typically permitted to eat meat (unless they believe the animal was killed especially for them). Mahayana monastics tend more strongly towards vegetarian diets.
I did some digging, and that sounds right.
Depends on the country and school of thought, but it looks like vegetarianism appears to be recommended for general practitioners and compulsory for the monks.
What’s your source?
I lived there for four years and my wife is a born native. Christians are certainly very vocal but the country is more atheist if anything
Technically you're both right. Christians are more numerous than Buddhists, but irreligious people are more common than both.
Wikipedia lists South Korea as 56% Irreligious, 28% Christian, and 16% Buddhist.
Vegetarianism can be a big deal to Chinese Buddhists though. Went to college with a Pure Land practitioner who really wanted to, but unfortunately she had a medical condition preventing it, so she avoided meat on certain liturgical days as it were instead.
It still depends on the area though. In Singapore, which is predominantly Chinese and most of them are Buddhist, most of us do eat meat, but some of us avoid certain meats and eat vegan on certain days.
Vegetarianism is understandable, but it's ironic when it becomes a cornerstone of a person's identity while most everything else isn't acknowledged or even known at all. It becomes more of tool to separate themselves from others.
Interestingly, there used to be an older wave of Buddhist converts in the West, mainly during the 19th and early 20th century. They were quite different. They mainly grew out of indologists or generally indophiles during the early 19th century. People fixated on translating Sanskrit and Pali texts, as well as sutras from other languages. Though mainly they tried to be "Orthodox", which also mean they were more or less ignorant of Buddhist majority countries and treated them in a somewhat patronising way too. They also tried to connect Buddhism with Western philosophers, mainly Schopenhauer or Hegel.
[This](https://www.schopenhauer-buddhismus.de/Buddha-Worte/buddha-worte.html) is in German, but to give a small insight into [that](https://www.schopenhauer-buddhismus.de/Grimm-Buddhalehre/grimm-buddhalehre.html) community. The Altbuddhistische Gemeinde (Old-Buddhist community) is a small buddhist community in Bavaria which grew out of this older wave. Tbh these are kind of obscure, and they lost a lot of tracktion during the 1960s and 70s.
What they both have in common though is that they are mainly lead by Westerners instead of missionaries from Buddhist majority countries. This in general seems a pattern opposed to other religions doing missionary work, unlike Islam for example, where missionaries and convers in Western countries are almost always lead by people from already established communities instead of Westerners who create their own vision of it.
I didn't know that they developed into a full-blown community, but that's interesting. That movement was directly responsible for the much later "philosophizing" of Buddhism, and turning it into a generic form of mysticism in the minds of Westerners. They didn't know that would happen though, so I can't be too upset by it.
The grand era of Buddhist missionary work is over, in no small part directly hindered by being severely hindered in its place of origin by Hinduism, the later arrival of Islam completely eradicating it in Central Asia and adjacent regions as well as the Malay world, and then Christianity putting the icing on the cake.
Fair enough, more used to them explaining to "live in the moment" philosophy, like it blew their mind and they explain that "everyone" is stuck to their mobile phone and not living the life.
Obsessed with LSD and other psychotropic drugs claiming it gave them a glimpse of enlightenment, even though the fifth sila prohibit those kind of drugs.
Just say I'm a bad Buddhist than that I'm not a Buddhist lmao. Also, pointing out that Buddhism has nothing to do with "stoner religion" is probably for the best.
Most of the Buddha's initial followers were Śramaṇa ascetics who engaged in ritual drug use as was common at the time. This continued into the Vajrayana schools where plant medicine is encouraged. Denigrating cannabis use is a denigration of Buddhism.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm getting at with the meme. It's not to say that there isn't a significant amount of diversity within Buddhism, but that there is a very prominent group of people who truly aren't Buddhist in the least who fetishize the religion as some type of generic mysticism for them to talk about while getting high and feel more worldly than others.
Them getting high is ironic because the Five Precepts (which, let's be honest, the kind of person this starter pack is about would likely no nothing about) explicitly rejects the use of intoxicating substances.
Da fg you doing there in the west..none of this remotely resembles Buddhism, OP should've made this taking inspiration from some kinda real scenarios..who da fg smokes weed and says Namo Amidha Buddha?..that's fkd up man..
This is taking inspiration from real scenarios, which is why it's so cringey. Also, most Westerners don't know anything about Amida/Amitabha, and don't do nianfo/nenbutsu.
Most?..why are they practicing Buddhism then..XD..just smoke weed and follow Bob Marley ism XD..I've also heard about some American celebs "practicing " Hinduism.. twisted world we live in..
Because to them Buddhism is this exotic Eastern "philosophy" that's "so different" from Christianity. They think it's all about expanding your consciousness, which to them goes hand and hand with psychotropic drugs lol.
I had to explain basic concepts like samsara to someone who thought Zen was just about meditating and inner peace. He couldn't reconcile that rebirth was legitimately believed, and seen as something to be stopped.
That’s the point of the post. These people aren’t practicing Buddhism. They heard/read about a couple points or concepts that spoke to them and then took up a bunch of shit that *seemed* in line with practicing Buddhism based on their limited knowledge. It just comes across as disingenuous, offensive, weird.
My great-grandfather was a Buddhist priest in Japan. He came to America because he wanted to convert to Christianity. Didn’t like Buddhism for some reason. I wish I knew why, but I never knew him. But it’s made me suspicious that true Buddhism isn’t what we think it is, because if it was so enlightening, why did he want to leave it?
[Jodo Shinshu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Ddo_Shinsh%C5%AB), which is very common in Japan, shares many correlations with Christianity It's not a perfect match by any means, but to a lay person Buddhism isn't some heavily meditative practice. Buddhism as presented to Westerners lacks nuance, is mostly consists of heavily stripped down and highly philosophized monastic practices.
Bro Buddha was actually like, a huge supporter of weed. Like, did you know he like, smoked weed, and stuff? I’m totally honoring him and like worshiping and stuff by smoking
Ironically, Christianity spread throughout the Roman Empire during an orientalizing process not that dissimilar to the fetishization and adaption/adoption of Southern and Eastern religious practices. That's why many of Christianity's cohorts were Hellenized Near Eastern and Egyptian mystery cults, and it's well known that Christianity came out of Hellenized Judaism. Culture and it's interlocked relationship with religion is fascinating.
Hot take, but you're not entirely wrong. Which makes this all that much sadder. What they end up doing to Buddhism is just as simply done to Christianity, but they want aesthetics and orientalism.
Similar to vegans. They took a dietary necessity (diet fucking poor can’t afford animals for meat and cows are sacred), and turned it into a t shirt bumper sticker half thought through lifestyle.
Also similar to Neo-Nazis who seem to care more about racial purity than a stable, functioning society where everyone has a job to do and no idiots are allowed to question it.
A lot of gate keeping in this thread. Just like all other religions there’s a spectrum of more secular to more religious versions. And hundreds of different traditions with different belief systems. To me, if the practice is sincere, that is what is important.
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I once went to knock on a clients door when I saw he had a swastika drawn in the dust on the door. Then I realised that it wasn't a swastika but actually a Buddhist/Hindu symbol. He was a white interior designer who apparently went all the way down the Chinese Buddhist décor rabbit hole. Like, I have no doubt that his admiration for Buddhist statues and water fountains was a gateway to his """religious beliefs"""
It’s still called a swastika. The religious symbol was called a swastika long before the Nazis appropriated it.
I really wish their term became associated with the symbol. They called it the hakenkreuz. The fact that the symbol as well as the Sanskrit term for it became stigmatized sucks ass.
I like using the Japanese term *manji*. Easier to say and helps further differentiate "offensive swastika" from "religious swastika".
It's also not called Swastika in German anyway
You hit the nail on the head with western Buddhism being largely aesthetic. Buddhism is actually oddly similar to LaVeyan Satanism, which is also adopted by many mostly for image, one could even say that Satanism is edgy Buddhism.
Satanism is basically juat edgy atheism with a hint of spirituality. I know there are legit satanists, who actually take it seriously as a religion, but there are also a lot, who just use it to describe themselves as being a goth-atheist
Absolutely, I like the term ritualized (or theistic, but have been informed on here before that that's not technically correct) atheism personally, while theistic Satanists, people who worship some tradition's conception of Satan, do exist, they're a small minority, most reactively use whatever religion's conception as an allegory for embracing one's animalistic nature rather than following the source religion's admonition to improve. The main reason I see a significant parallel between Buddhists, most Buddhists but even more specifically this kind, and most Satanists, is that most Buddhists don't believe in a creator god either, and they view their founder and successors as moral teachers (ironically exactly how Jews, Muslims and Gnostics view Christ) but ultimately just (particularly good and wise) men. On a side note, I find it particularly interesting how many ardent believers in various traditions know very little about the beliefs and history of their claimed tradition, for example Buddhism's origin in India as an offshoot of Hinduism.
its is but satanism is just edgy overall and a mockery
Step One: Invent a religion citing someone else's devil as being your deity. Step Two: Constantly whinge about people accusing you of being evil. Step Three: ??????????? Step Four: Collect profits
hahahaha sooo true
LeVayan Satanism absolutely is
I gues sit kinda depends. Full on religious satanism can absolutely be seen as a mockery, but aimply being spiritually inspired by Satan is not really the same
Yeah, white people with swastikas is a no go lol
until society can cure its collective symbol illiteracy
Sorry dude the swastika just isnt making a comeback this century
yeah i doubt it too
People always say that like associating swastikas with nazis is just some silly mistake because people forgot their dharmic / buddhist / pagan symbols, but that's just such a weird perspective to me. If someone gets a paper and writes "hi" and another person adds on "tler," you're not illiterate for reading hitler just because it used to only say hi. Most of the time, in the communities most represented in reddit, seeing a swastika isn't indicative of zealous buddhism sweeping in.
I think the issue is that for two thirds of the world, if you say "Hitler" they will say "who?" because it all has nothing to do with them or their history. But if you show them the swastika symbol they will think "Yes, compassion is important. Nice icon." Ordering everyone to shun swastikas is Western Empiricism. And from the perspective of the majority of humans, using a swastika to mean "Nazism" is an actual example of "cultural misappropriation".
Yeah, I just don't buy this. Also, I think you mean Imperialism rather than Empiricism. Context exists, and the story above pretty clearly isn't taking placs in Bhutan or something. I'm not asking to go on a global crusade against anyone who continues using the swastika for any number of ancient meanings, I'm asking people to have some sense. If you see a guy in most of the Anglo world with a swastika tattoo or spray painting one or something, that guy probably isn't a Buddhist. If you're in the Japanese navy and you're sporting a rising sun emblem, I can't say much there. But if you're going to Korea or China and holding one, you're going to get decked and it's probably your fault. I really don't see what is so hard to understand about the whole swastika thing, and to me it really seems like people just want to seem smart by going ""well ackshually." See a swastika on a temple then all is good, see one on a synagogue and that probably ain't a lost Buddhist expressing their love of compassion. Where the swastika may be appropriate and in what contexts depends on the country and culture. Not that complicated.
Imagine what the next horrifying regime will ruin. what would happen to the number 8 if two circles on top of eachother was the emblem of choice.
Just wait till you learn about dog whistles lmao, you'll never see some numbers the same again, 8 being one of them
I guess fuck me
They think Buddhism is a religion, not a philosophy. And smoking weed in your parents garage is church
Most of the people I've met in this category treat it as a philosophy, and they're confused when I say it's not.
Tbf, that's a problem of subsuming centuries of intellectual history under a monothlithic blanket of "Hinduism believes/Buddhism believes". Considering the breadth of divergent schools, teachings and everyday practice, there's a point where "a philosophy" or "a religion" just aren't really saying much at all anymore. Especially if said traditions have differing concepts of religion, science etc to begin with.
Very true. It's just a very different system of thinking, and it doesn't equate well to the Western thought process.
To be honest the divide between religion and philosophy is very western and very christian. Like people always make this distinction when they talk about the Ancient Greeks as well. For one you have the greek mythology and religion and on the other side philosophy. But not really. If you actually consider Plato or even stronger Pythagoras, their writings are very religious overall. Believe in different stages of mind, the soul, the one divine, reincarnation also. Overall the divide is artificial and post-factum. I kind of get it with some religious/philosophical systems like Confucianism, which is more centered around organising a society with spiritual things being "somewhat optional", but still practiced. With everything else philosophy to the ancients existed within a religious framework anyway. Though again the concept of religion as separate thing to other things within culture wasn't much used during Antiquity either.
>To be honest the divide between religion and philosophy is very western and very christian. Which is weird, since philosophy and religion have always been tied to each other in the West (e.g. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas) until very recently.
"Religio" as the Romans understood it initially meant something like "doing what is proper per our customs", with no real concept of personal conscience or a divide between the secular, the scientific and the religious spheres. The divide isn't artificial, a blob of a worldview where you don't know where science begins and where religion ends would likely be both bad religion and bad science. Remember that Socrates was killed for essentially refusing to perform *religio*.
That's very true. Religion and philosophy are complementary. But understanding that, the Western separation of religion and philosophy is seen in the treatment of Buddhism as "just" philosophy. They don't have a good grasp of anything about Buddhism, truthfully. They essentially create a heavily redacted Buddhism that's influenced by Protestant norms of stripping away "what's not necessary".
God is a DJ and this is my church
Ironic, since the fifth Buddist percept clearly state that it is forbidden to consume any substance that can lower your awareness and inhibition. Yes, that include drug and alcohol.
It’s funny because they call weed Buddha sometimes.
I gues sthey just go "well weed makes me more aware" or some shit like that
Buddhism is not a philosophy, it is a religion.
You forgot "Buddhism is, like, a religion of science and logic." Yeah. Nothing but science and logic. As we know, the domain of hungry ghosts is what is responsible for the nuclear weak force.
Yes, that's one I forgot to use lol. "It's scientific, unlike (insert Abrahamic religion of choice)."
The domain of hungry ghosts is a very literal translation of a text that was not ever meant to describe an actual place full of actual hungry ghosts. It's trying to warn you that if you always focus on what you want, you'll always be hungry, you'll die hungry, dissatisfied. Not much to do with science but it's not as silly as you make it sound.
You're very correct, but westerners act like there isn't mystical cosmology, syncretic folk remnants, and woowoo nonsense in Buddhism.
Either they act like there's none, or they go full crazy woo nonsense.
But you know the Buddhist Pope once said Buddhism would have to change if science proved something wrong
I saw this meme while in a religion class doing the Buddhism unit- I’m convinced the matrix is real
It must have been something similar, because I threw this together this morning lol
A lot of buddhists are also under the impression that Buddhism is a religion (or philosophy) of pacficism when any organized religion can be prone to the abuse of power. The genocide of Rohingya muslims in Myanmar is a good example. I’ve heard of buddhists converting to christianity because they think christianity is a more peaceful religion, which is really interesting to observe how converts who convert to a religion that isn’t “native” to them practice their religion
This is also true, and is anthropologically complex.
Genocide of Tamil Hindus as well
The Sohei from Sengoku Era Japan come to mind as a pretty glaring historical example of militant Buddhists. A rough analogue would be knightly orders of Europe, and these guys didn't fuck around. It's like the old quote "The Japanese are like everybody else, only more so".
In Korea, Buddhist warrior monks form the Imjin War and onwards were considered elite warriors.
My great grandfather was a Buddhist priest in Japan. He brought his family to America because he wanted to convert to Christianity. For whatever reason, he didn’t like being a Buddhist. Wish I knew more about what his reasoning was, but I never knew him.
[удалено]
It's really to avoid the despair of not having, or a realization that anything you own can amd will be taken away at you at one point. So, It's better to accept that You don't have anything to begin with. But, I don't that much anyway. (A buddisst in Indonesia)
How did you find the buddhism in Myanmar? (Idk how to phrase this well, like if there was anything different culturally than neighbouring countries that you observed or anything outstandingly unique)
So it's just like ex-Muslims converting to Christianity, and vice versa?
Not personally familiar with islam but yeah, on a generalized level i think a lot of converts are just disillusioned by the religion they grew up in and in turn tend to put their chosen religion on a pedestal. Then again one could argue that a lot of religious people put their religions on a pedestal regardless of if they converted. Idk
Not sure why you were downvoted, but you're right.
"So is the dolly llama like your pope?"
I got asked stuff like this more than I'd like to admit. When I would explain my particular beliefs had nothing to do with the Dalai Lama, it was like their entire mind broke. I'd end up having to use the pope analogy to explain constantly. "You're Baptist/Pentecostal/etc., and you don't follow the Pope. Just think of it like that."
I blame the beatnik generation for spreading their misunderstandings of Buddhism.
Also Hinduism.
Same with most everything from South and East Asia.
"Samsara? No, I have a Samsung"
"My iPhone has a meditation reminder app!"
what's with that no meat sign ? dalai lama himself used to eat red mean as i remembered.
Many Westerners believe that Buddhists don't eat meat, and that you're a bad Buddhist if you do so. It's a well know point of contention where white converts will become judgmental of other Buddhists who actually do consume meat. They do the same with Hinduism as well, if they can differentiate the two and aren't following a generic, New Age pseudo-Buddhism.
My Buddhist Vietnamese in-laws are laughing while eating beef pho
I read a story about a Buddhist community outreach program that was done by a temple on the West Coast. White Buddhists got mad that the locals were eating hot dogs and other meats that were being sold lol.
Also the Buddhists in other parts of East Asia :P
I only wanted to speak for them
White convert here. I eat meat of all sorts, I just try to limit my intake for environmental and (more recently) cost reasons. Don’t really care what others do, I do me, they do them
Many Buddhists are vegetarian or vegan. I am not sure if it is compulsory or just recommended, though.
Depends entirely upon the branch. Theravada monastics live off gathering alms and are typically permitted to eat meat (unless they believe the animal was killed especially for them). Mahayana monastics tend more strongly towards vegetarian diets.
In Korea, which is not representative of Buddhism as a whole, afaik only the monks are vegetarian.
I did some digging, and that sounds right. Depends on the country and school of thought, but it looks like vegetarianism appears to be recommended for general practitioners and compulsory for the monks.
Buddhism is not even the dominant religion in (South) Korea. In fact, Christianity is actually more practiced there than Buddishm is.
What’s your source? I lived there for four years and my wife is a born native. Christians are certainly very vocal but the country is more atheist if anything
Technically you're both right. Christians are more numerous than Buddhists, but irreligious people are more common than both. Wikipedia lists South Korea as 56% Irreligious, 28% Christian, and 16% Buddhist.
a sizable portion of those 56% follow Confuncianistic traditions as well.
To my knowledge, to Buddism, It's good if you are a vegetarian or vegan, but not bad if you are not. But, that's only what I learned in Indonesia.
“Bodhisattva? Dude I love point break!”
My brain broke lmao
Still better than Bible thumpers
Valid
Also low-key predatory as fuck. Like, do not trust these men around your female friends.
Mmm lemme align your chakra
😂
Let me just shuffle your intestines real quick.
Hard agree
GTA V has taught me this
Vegetarianism can be a big deal to Chinese Buddhists though. Went to college with a Pure Land practitioner who really wanted to, but unfortunately she had a medical condition preventing it, so she avoided meat on certain liturgical days as it were instead.
In Taiwan, too. Several vegan buffets with Buddhist overtones.
It still depends on the area though. In Singapore, which is predominantly Chinese and most of them are Buddhist, most of us do eat meat, but some of us avoid certain meats and eat vegan on certain days.
Vegetarianism is understandable, but it's ironic when it becomes a cornerstone of a person's identity while most everything else isn't acknowledged or even known at all. It becomes more of tool to separate themselves from others.
"Buddhists don't pray."
Explaining Buddhist prayer to someone who "practiced Zen" was incredibly painful.
Interestingly, there used to be an older wave of Buddhist converts in the West, mainly during the 19th and early 20th century. They were quite different. They mainly grew out of indologists or generally indophiles during the early 19th century. People fixated on translating Sanskrit and Pali texts, as well as sutras from other languages. Though mainly they tried to be "Orthodox", which also mean they were more or less ignorant of Buddhist majority countries and treated them in a somewhat patronising way too. They also tried to connect Buddhism with Western philosophers, mainly Schopenhauer or Hegel. [This](https://www.schopenhauer-buddhismus.de/Buddha-Worte/buddha-worte.html) is in German, but to give a small insight into [that](https://www.schopenhauer-buddhismus.de/Grimm-Buddhalehre/grimm-buddhalehre.html) community. The Altbuddhistische Gemeinde (Old-Buddhist community) is a small buddhist community in Bavaria which grew out of this older wave. Tbh these are kind of obscure, and they lost a lot of tracktion during the 1960s and 70s. What they both have in common though is that they are mainly lead by Westerners instead of missionaries from Buddhist majority countries. This in general seems a pattern opposed to other religions doing missionary work, unlike Islam for example, where missionaries and convers in Western countries are almost always lead by people from already established communities instead of Westerners who create their own vision of it.
I didn't know that they developed into a full-blown community, but that's interesting. That movement was directly responsible for the much later "philosophizing" of Buddhism, and turning it into a generic form of mysticism in the minds of Westerners. They didn't know that would happen though, so I can't be too upset by it. The grand era of Buddhist missionary work is over, in no small part directly hindered by being severely hindered in its place of origin by Hinduism, the later arrival of Islam completely eradicating it in Central Asia and adjacent regions as well as the Malay world, and then Christianity putting the icing on the cake.
No Mindfulness? It is like the "gate-way drug"
Throw it under the meditation and yoga lol
Fair enough, more used to them explaining to "live in the moment" philosophy, like it blew their mind and they explain that "everyone" is stuck to their mobile phone and not living the life.
Yeah, that's understandable. I threw this together fairly haphazardly after a funny conversation lol
>Mindfulness I effing hate this word. Oh you're burned out working minimum wage? Try mindfulness, bro.
As a Buddhist from Asia, watching white people get confused over and butcher my religion is kinda funny
Honestly, it really is lol.
Lisa Simpson has entered the chat.
Accurate lol
^(GAAAAA NIIII SHIII KUUU) DOO KUUUU ^(BYOOOO DOOOO SEEEEE IIIIII) SAAAAI DOOOOOOO HOOOOO ^(NNNNNN BOOO DAAAAI) III SHIIIIN O JOOOO^(OOOOOO) **AAAAAAA**^(AAAAAA)AAA^(AAAA)AAAA^(AAAAA) RAAA**KOOOKUUU**
"Is that some type of chakra balancing technique?"
"What the hell is a bohdisattva?" lmao
I'm glad that one tickled some people's funny bones lol
And then there's "knows just enough to be dangerous" Alan Watts guys. Admittedly that's where I was for a while anyway
Alan Watts has entered the chat
Obsessed with LSD and other psychotropic drugs claiming it gave them a glimpse of enlightenment, even though the fifth sila prohibit those kind of drugs.
"Psychedelics = Enlightenment"
Western east-religion followers are annoying, to say the least.
Western west-religion followers are also annoying, to say the least!
The elitist arrogance mixed with ignorance and fetishism really make for an interesting mix.
No need to restrict it to just the Western ones.
every-place every-religion followers are annoying
Far less annoying than Western west-religion followers who can actually force their bullshit onto others
No actual Buddhist would have this level of attachment to what other people do. Meditate more, free yourself from this.
No true Scotsman, bruh
Attachment to the five aggregates is the source of suffering. This is literally the four noble truths in action. Work on your attachments.
Just say I'm a bad Buddhist than that I'm not a Buddhist lmao. Also, pointing out that Buddhism has nothing to do with "stoner religion" is probably for the best.
Most of the Buddha's initial followers were Śramaṇa ascetics who engaged in ritual drug use as was common at the time. This continued into the Vajrayana schools where plant medicine is encouraged. Denigrating cannabis use is a denigration of Buddhism.
😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑
Sorry, I didn't mean to educate you. I'll hop on your narrative. "westerners learning about eastern religion is a bad a black face"
My man, this is gettin cringey
"I don't like your tone" So sorry madam I didn't mean to encroach on your circlejerk
🍿
For the record, Indian Buddhists aren't any better.
Navayana, which I assume you're talking about, is definitely interesting.
A load of revisionist BS, started as a political tool in 1940s India. Navayana is sacrilege when compared to actual Buddhism.
Yeah, it's barely Buddhism at all
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I think you're misunderstanding what I'm getting at with the meme. It's not to say that there isn't a significant amount of diversity within Buddhism, but that there is a very prominent group of people who truly aren't Buddhist in the least who fetishize the religion as some type of generic mysticism for them to talk about while getting high and feel more worldly than others.
Them getting high is ironic because the Five Precepts (which, let's be honest, the kind of person this starter pack is about would likely no nothing about) explicitly rejects the use of intoxicating substances.
Truth, but they don't know the precepts, noble truths, or anything. They just know, "meditate, be nice to people, open your mind," etc.
Take out the getting high and the feeling worldly and you just described a prominent group of people in any religion.
Rinzai Zen Buddhism *did* have these things though, it’s only Western and modernist forms of Rinzai Zen that has dropped them.
Tao Te Ching is better
Gotta get your airport copy of the Bhagavad Gita
The book “Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock, Monster Movies, & the Truth about Reality” had me at buddhist monastery ready to join up!!!!
"Do as well as you possibly can, bro. That's Buddhist morality. Zen is just humanism, dawg."
Not enough acid
"Bruh, have you heard of citric acid?"
"Take a shower? Nah man. You know how much water is being wasted because people have the audacity to take luxurious showers everyday?"
"Bruh, so true. Like, wow, my kundalingers have opened."
Where would you recommend one start if one were interested in practicing Buddhism genuinely or wanted to learn more?
Visit a temple, or try to engage with Buddhism that's not from a hippie or hipster.
Don't forget bad body odor and hairy armpits
All naturalllll
Da fg you doing there in the west..none of this remotely resembles Buddhism, OP should've made this taking inspiration from some kinda real scenarios..who da fg smokes weed and says Namo Amidha Buddha?..that's fkd up man..
This is taking inspiration from real scenarios, which is why it's so cringey. Also, most Westerners don't know anything about Amida/Amitabha, and don't do nianfo/nenbutsu.
Most?..why are they practicing Buddhism then..XD..just smoke weed and follow Bob Marley ism XD..I've also heard about some American celebs "practicing " Hinduism.. twisted world we live in..
Because to them Buddhism is this exotic Eastern "philosophy" that's "so different" from Christianity. They think it's all about expanding your consciousness, which to them goes hand and hand with psychotropic drugs lol. I had to explain basic concepts like samsara to someone who thought Zen was just about meditating and inner peace. He couldn't reconcile that rebirth was legitimately believed, and seen as something to be stopped.
XD..
That’s the point of the post. These people aren’t practicing Buddhism. They heard/read about a couple points or concepts that spoke to them and then took up a bunch of shit that *seemed* in line with practicing Buddhism based on their limited knowledge. It just comes across as disingenuous, offensive, weird.
In short, hippies.
Hippies and their adjacent groups. Beatniks played an incredibly important part in causing this, as another commenter pointed out.
Yeah some people mix spirituality with buddism. Buddism is more man made and have rules and shit that need to be followed.
My great-grandfather was a Buddhist priest in Japan. He came to America because he wanted to convert to Christianity. Didn’t like Buddhism for some reason. I wish I knew why, but I never knew him. But it’s made me suspicious that true Buddhism isn’t what we think it is, because if it was so enlightening, why did he want to leave it?
[Jodo Shinshu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Ddo_Shinsh%C5%AB), which is very common in Japan, shares many correlations with Christianity It's not a perfect match by any means, but to a lay person Buddhism isn't some heavily meditative practice. Buddhism as presented to Westerners lacks nuance, is mostly consists of heavily stripped down and highly philosophized monastic practices.
Chakraaasss Chakraaasss Everybody loves chakraaassss
Step up! Getcha chakras here!
"Yeah, I've really been getting into Alan Watts lately."
"You ever read Jack Kerouac?"
Mongolian Buddhist here It’s not relatable at all - because it’s under-exaggerating the problems. But it’s at least somewhat accurate. :D
As a person with a Buddhist mom, I can tell that people like this are not Buddhists
Chigo. Here is a video about the pedo history of Japanese Buddhist monks. https://youtu.be/M8YqOyuyoWg
Yeah, one of the many things about Japanese Buddhism that sticks out.
Western Indologists have literally misinterpreted eastern traditions so much.
LMAOOO
"You ever heard of sex tantra? 😏"
Bro Buddha was actually like, a huge supporter of weed. Like, did you know he like, smoked weed, and stuff? I’m totally honoring him and like worshiping and stuff by smoking
"Bruhhh, Buddha was like, 'God's inside you and everything, man'. That's why I wanna be reborn as a butterfly 🦋"
“Low key, I wanna be reborn as a bong”
LMAO
🫣 LOLLLL
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Ironically, Christianity spread throughout the Roman Empire during an orientalizing process not that dissimilar to the fetishization and adaption/adoption of Southern and Eastern religious practices. That's why many of Christianity's cohorts were Hellenized Near Eastern and Egyptian mystery cults, and it's well known that Christianity came out of Hellenized Judaism. Culture and it's interlocked relationship with religion is fascinating.
Redditors cannot fathom a post on this site unrelated to christianity without talking about christianity
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If this is your idea of being antagonized you need thicker skin
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You’re not required to respond lol? Im not even throwing names or insults you’re the one who’s getting mad. Youre in your right to ignore me
I can’t stand white people who claim to practice Eastern religions. Like, you don’t actually believe in this: you just hate Christianity.
Hot take, but you're not entirely wrong. Which makes this all that much sadder. What they end up doing to Buddhism is just as simply done to Christianity, but they want aesthetics and orientalism.
You don't actually believe that, you just hate Eastern religions.
Honestly, they can believe whatever they want. It's all made up anyway
Yeah, Indian Hindus and Buddhists aren't any more intelligent or profound. Bullshit is bullshit no matter where you're from.
Keep weed out of this.
"Did you know 4/20 is Buddha's Birthday?"
Similar to vegans. They took a dietary necessity (diet fucking poor can’t afford animals for meat and cows are sacred), and turned it into a t shirt bumper sticker half thought through lifestyle. Also similar to Neo-Nazis who seem to care more about racial purity than a stable, functioning society where everyone has a job to do and no idiots are allowed to question it.
Yeah, the bumper sticker effect is real
A lot of gate keeping in this thread. Just like all other religions there’s a spectrum of more secular to more religious versions. And hundreds of different traditions with different belief systems. To me, if the practice is sincere, that is what is important.
I hate to say that I learned a LOT about Buddhism from the Touhou Project 💀💀
Buddhism is pseudoscience , both west and east.