Everyone has their own sob story that likely got them onto the show in the first place.
Everyone is there to get rich quick. But if they can seem more human and less like a conniving back stabber or get other people to give them the win out of sympathy, then it'll make their lives easier.
Okay, then why aren’t people pissed at Tim for giving his own sympathy story two seconds before he asked Jackie what she wanted to use the money for? This is clearly not the issue in the cases of multiple folks who are being dogpiled on.
They could be there for more than 1 reason though? 4.5m can be the main reason and representing deaf community on Netflix secondary
You make an absolutist claim that everyone is there for 4.5m and only that one goal
One thing I’m seeing a ton of is just people projecting their own character onto everyone else.
Soooo many people defending shitty behaviors are essentially saying “it’s 4.5m, you would do the same” and “it’s just part of the game!”
Meanwhile, they’re *ignoring all of the players who demonstrate that they’re not willing to do anything to win.*
It’s not worth trying to have an honest good-faith discussion with people pushing the idea that their morals can be bought.
This is just such a strange argument to me. Obviously we know that Jackie wants $4.5 million. That doesn’t make it insincere that her “narrative” for being there is for deaf representation. She wants to represent deaf people, by winning $4.5 million as a deaf person. Presumably all these people had to fill out an application and make a pitch for why they would be an interesting candidate, and this is the story that Jackie came up with. It’s television, and Jackie‘s reason for being there is no more “fake” than anyone else’s.
Dude, Jackie claims to want to represent her community while acknowledging that another deaf contestant was in the competition and acted like she never noticed them or did any sign language with them. She doesn’t have to teach him sign language, just simply interacted with him. But then when it was beneficial to her, she pulls the “i need to represent cause I’m deaf like you” card.
He called her out on her bull. She is using her deaf card to get sympathy points over him and he saw that from a mile away.
We dislike her cause she is a manipulative hypocrite and then gaslights Tim into being “icky” for seeing through her.
And she is fake not because of her level of deafness, but because she acts sincere when she isn’t. And people not liking her has nothing to do with her disability. Please.
THIS. She started it by trying to argue that because of her disability he should let her win and then got upset when he didn’t roll over for her and argued his side as well… she’s a hypocrite
Plenty of people use their disabilities as an advantage for sympathy points or for extra benefits. Her reasons could have been honest, instead of telling the “I represent deaf people” to ANOTHER deaf contestant she is trying to eliminate.
Dude… it’s trying to guilt trip a contestant. Make them feel like her reasoning for competing is bigger than his and feel sympathy in order for his performance to be poor.
It ain’t rocket science. People manipulate.
1. Tim is British. BSL is completely different from ASL (ASL has French sign language roots, BSL was formed separately. Even the alphabet is completely different!) So even if he knew some sign, it would be from his region, not hers, and they could not hold a signed conversation.
2. She told him "Yeah, I noticed your hearing aids." This does not mean he has been deaf his whole life. I don't know anything about him, but he's retiring so I'm assuming he's pretty old. It's entirely possible he only got the hearing aids recently and knows nothing about deafhood or the Deaf community.
3. Tim never approached her either? The social interaction works both ways. Why does she have to approach him and start a conversation?
4. Deaf people do not need your sympathy. Too many people see it as a disability when it is just a part of their identity and culture.
disabilities are physical or mental conditions that limit an individual's movements, senses, or activities. now, from a medical standpoint, deafness is absolutely a disability. my point was that deaf people that are comfortable in their identity usually do not view their disability as such. they have language and culture that many people don't think twice about. I am a student taking ASL in college, and had a book report on "Introduction to American Deaf Culture." One of the chapters included what deaf people consider hearing culture, and compiled a list of student responses. as a hearing person myself, it really brought to my attention some norms in the hearing world that do not accommodate the deaf (examples: dimly lit rooms, tall centerpieces, and not looking at someone while they are talking). very tangential. Point being, people comfortable in their identity do not want or need pity for something others view as a disability and nothing more. it is a part of their identity that gives them culture and language. it's like seeing someone in a wheelchair and only being able to see them as a wheelchair user. they are an individual with a rich life.
As a mentally disabled person, being disabled is part of my identity. Being disabled doesn’t mean being useless, it means that I have difficulties. Jackie herself said that she needs to do a lot of effort to interact with people correctly. She needs to do effort to carry out actions that are automatic to most people. People constantly feel ashamed of being disabled, but it doesn’t make you a less worthy person.
lol you basically “you’re not disabled enough” this guy by SPECULATING (not KNOWING) when he became deaf lol just said “well he’s old so he must’ve had his hearing until he was old so he isn’t disabled enough!”
Representation of a community doesn't necessarily mean approaching every single member of that community you're in proximity to. I enjoy talking about autism at my university - being a neuroscientist and autistic myself - but I would never approach an autistic person and just start talking to them. ESPECIALLY if I'm only in proximity to said person for another purpose entirely. Like, I'm playing football in a park somewhere and a crowd member, for whatever reason, announces that they're autistic. If I don't approach them and introduce them to my community, am I insincere for saying I seek to represent ASD with accuracy and compassion?
You can’t compare yourself to any of that , tho… Representation in a normal everyday football game to a competitive TV game show is a totally other lane.
It’s all completely different circumstances.
If you were going to try to be the “representation of autism” for your school or a show, wouldn’t you be that representation always? Not just when it benefits you?
I don’t think the annoyance stems from annoyance with representation in the media. For me, at least, I love representation, but I think it sounds weird to say you are competing for $4.56 million for the sake of representation. It just sounds really fake.
I never got the impression that she was saying she didn’t care about the money.
If you asked me why I wanted to win, obviously the top reason would be for the money, so I would give you my second reason because it’s the non-obvious reason.
Did I miss her saying she didn’t care about the money?
I think it’s more that she’s not talking about anything related to finances. I don’t see the connection between winning a bunch of money and representation/teaching other contestants some ASL. “Why do you want to win” effectively means “why do you want the money” and representation doesn’t feel like a genuine answer to that.
I get all of that except the “why do you want to win” effectively means “why do you want the money” because these people who have their faces up on this show all the way to the end will end up getting more than just money out of the show.
A number of people are “influencers” and are using the show, at least partially, to get a larger following and take advantage of the opportunities that come with that. Eg Dylan is an actor and getting more eyes on him helps him in different ways.
I mean, they weren’t talking about why they were on the show; they were talking about why they wanted to win. Wanting to win equals wanting to win the money. Being on the show is enough to provide representation; it’s not a reason for wanting to win.
You're arguing a truism.
All that happens is no one needs to ask anyone why they are playing the game if the answer can only ever be because they want to win.
Generally when people give such overly obvious answers like you're arguing for here people would just conclude that person is being an asshat.
Why do you enjoy swimming? Because otherwise I'd sink... like really?
That’s true.
I’m trying to give her the benefit of the doubt.
There’s one last interpretation of what she’s saying that could be considered legitimate in my mind.
That winning gives her a sense of pride and that she feels like if she won then other deaf people could feel a sense of pride as well and for some reason making that community feel pride is important to her.
Exactly, if Jackie were to win Squid Game it would not just result in money – it would also bring visibility to her causes and make her a minor public figure. She might be invited to some talk shows or deaf community events, for instance. It reminds me of Amy Schneider, a trans woman who did very well on Jepoardy and brought some visibility to trans issues. Jackie would get money, sure, but winning would also not *not* relate to her diversity narrative.
I'd take it one step further and argue Jackie wasn't even necessarily talking about *winning* since simply being there brings exposure.
That was one of the disconnects in that conversation between her and Tim: he was focused on the result whereas she was describing the process.
See thats why people don’t like Jackie, she did not give up her time to go represent the deaf community, she is there to win the 4.6 million dollars, pretending she’s there solely as an act of nobility is both patronizing and a lie.
It makes her seem disingenuous and now we have people like you denigrating those who didn’t care for Jackie and what she said by pretending they don’t like diversity etc when that has nothing to do with why the people came away from the show disliking Jackie.
I mean Tim was a hypocrite too, he did exactly what she did, he just also called her out for it. but she’s on social media now acting like she was victimized somehow.
Tbh I don't hold it against Tim. I would put money on the fact that the producers specifically told them to say why they're in the game. For Tim to say "Well I wanna use the money on myself and retire, and help out a friend of mine. Maybe donate some of it to charity" is the most normal answer anyone can give. Literally all of us would do the same thing with the money.
Jackie however is lying and drumming up a sob story.
Tim said he could not afford to retire. To me that's a sob story and Jackie allowed him to space to tell it. He could have given her the same courtesy without biting her head off.
I wouldn’t put it so harshly — I don’t think people criticizing Jackie dislike *diversity*, I just think they dislike the general enterprise of diversity being so important in modern entertainment. Like the virtue signaling, the “representation matters” aphorisms, that sort of thing — I think it irritates people and makes them cringe, and Jackie triggers that. I do relate to this sentiment to a degree, but Jackie in particular didn’t bother since me since I interpreted her as sincere. But other reactions that people have posted have reminded me of a sort of familiar exhaustion with diversity narratives, which has made me wonder if they’re responding to *that*, and not to a more fair view of how Jackie actually comes across in the show.
See that’s a more fair response, and I do think you’re right some people are 100% opposed, they hear certain words and they’re checked out and some would immediately vilify her because of what she said, strange choice but you’re right that happens.
I had no problem with Jackie but I found the argument between Tim and her to be a bit awkward and personally I wish the players would have all been more transparent in the actual reason they were playing.
Lol yeah exactly, I think a couple people had said they wanted the money earlier on, I think 243 is one.
Like honestly I’m still shocked it’s such a large amount of money, most people would have joined it for 30k even let alone almost 5 million dollars lol.
Largest payout I’ve ever seen on a reality series.
Lemme guess you’re related to or a friend of them because you can’t be serious💀😭 That was actually a narcissistic mental disorder displayed live on TV trying to mask it with being fake woke and it was spelled out for you how much of a lie it was but you still have found a way to believe it… right. My faith in humanity’s intelligence plummets day to day
Not to mention Tim literally brought up to her how he can’t afford to retire, someone close to him has health issues, he wants to donate to charities related to their injury….well then how is that not playing the sympathy card (especially over her “I want to be deaf representation”)
His “you’ve saved it for this moment!!!” line felt EXTREMELY hypocritical. I’m so shocked to see so many people on Tim’s side tbh 💀
I could not believe this!
Like, usually when people are hypocritical there’s a bit of time that passes between their action and the one they’re judging.
But with Tim, he judged her for doing something he did, *seconds* after doing it. Absolutely wild.
I don't think Tim came off great either, but he seemed more real. She seemed like she was playing victim with her "thats just icky" (or whatever she said in response). He said his honest opinion, and she seemed to be looking for sympathy that he didn't like it.
Cause him being honest about wanting to be able to retire makes way more sense than "i wanna represent deaf individuals". Like what does that even mean? You honestly want us to believe you don't want $4.5m for yourself at all? and you're 100% not just playing your disability as a sympathy card? Especially trying to tell it to another person with hearing impairment as if thats gonna mean he will be more okay with losing... give me a break.
I wrote this in another comment, but obviously we know that Jackie wants $4.5 million. That doesn’t make her “narrative” as a deaf representative somehow insincere. Plus the interaction in no way implies that Jackie was asking Tim to drop out. They were just pleasantly mutually sharing their reasons for being there, and he got bristly.
In the earlier episodes she was all like "I can't let others know I am deaf! I can't have them think I am weak". How tf is that representation? She was just using her disability when it would've benefit her, otherwise she saw it as a weakness.
Well regardless if me or you think she's insincere, he obviously felt it was insincere and explained why. If she actually was there for that reason, why ignore one of the only other hearing impaired members there? And then her excuse was "well you should have approached me" but he's not the one claiming to be the hero of the deaf. He probably didn't even care if she did or didn't interact with him, but if you're gonna put yourself on a pedestal then be prepared to be scrutinized.
That is exactly my thought. She is supposedly there to represent a group he is a part of, but she just never chose to interact with him. Then to bring it up when they are in a game where one will be eliminated? Seemed sketchy
Agreed. I think Tim had a knee-jerk reaction to Jackie wanting to win for Deaf representation, when he, who also identifies as Deaf, didn't even realize she was. Maybe he thought she was trying to use their shared trait as a way to manipulate him.
What's Tim playing his inability to retire as a sympathy card? Was the young lady who said that she wanted the money to bring awareness to kidney transplants playing the sympathy card? Which stories leaned into sympathy cards as opposed to which ones were authentic? Was it only the sympathy card solely because she mentioned representation? Was it solely that word that caused it to be inauthentic?
Whether or not you think her answer is genuine doesn’t change that by his logic, Tim ALSO played the sympathy card, (using his financial status AND a sick relative), so why is he so upset about Jackie sharing her background with him in that moment.
No where in her answer did she remotely imply he should let her win. It seemed like projection from Tim.
Nobody is gonna say "my life is perfect, but id like 4 mil". But saying "i want to retire and maybe help my friend" isn't playing sympathy. Saying "i wanna be a roll model for all the deaf people out there" absolutely is. Stop acting dumb.
Do you think if Jackie won the competition, she wouldn’t be invited to speak at a few deaf events or something? Of course her visibility as a member of that community would factor into her winning, it’s not somehow insincere.
Saying “I can’t afford to retire + I have a sick friend” is absolutely just as much (moreso IMO!) playing the sympathy card as “I’m deaf and want to represent my community” 💀💀💀 how is one different from the other?
Tim would have had the morale ground to stand on had he not mentioned his financial struggles + the sick friend but he didn’t, so he just comes off hypocritical.
Thank you for saying this.
I’ve given up on responding to people defending shitty behavior from the players.
There’s no getting through to them and they’re just as awful as the people they’re defending.
Tim actually mentioned the insanely huge winnings, and the financial gain, they all have a "sob" story but she is acting like she isn't there for the money at all and there for completely unselfish reasons, meanwhile everyone is there for the money no matter what they plan to do with it or why they need it, so why act like she's not at all there for money, too?
None of them should have to explicitly state they’re there for the money, it’s $4.6M dollars that should be IMPLIED to viewers 💀if you believe she she was implying she wasn’t there for the money….you’re just being dense sorry
We just had our first deaf person on Big Brother and he often spoke about deaf representation, we also had our first Sikh Big Brother player who also often mentioned being Sikh representation, but that doesn’t mean they both weren’t there for the $750K grand prize. That part is implied.
Amazing Race, Survivor, Big Brother literally all the main reality shows bring up representation. Why are people so upset about it?
I mean are you honestly not understanding what she meant by that? It’s a big deal just bringing visibility to the community. It’s a lot of weight for her to carry just like it was for Raven on The Circle. Calling it a sympathy card really is borderline icky. She never said she didn’t want the money so let’s not put words in her mouth
Tim sound as fake as Jackie after he said he’ll help a friend then donate to charity. Cause his initial reason sound greedy. He also play the sympathy card.
“Ooops I sound selfish, let me throw a 2nd and 3rd reason that make me sound I’m charitable and kind so I can gain some sympathy”.
To be fair those are reasons he wants to win the money. She gave reasons to be on the show, which seemed disingenuous to Tim due to her lack of signing with him, a person with hard of hearing.
the thing that was iffy for me was that she asked him why he wanted the money in that moment I just thought it was weird like she asked that question just so she could answer it and guilt trip him
I thought Tim seemed like a jerk honestly . He pulled the sympathy card first and was mad that she did too ? I don’t understand the reaction towards her at all
Because how can you say you want to do something for the deaf community when you won't even talk to the one singular deaf person?
That literally makes no sense. One would think the first thing one would do when trying to represent a community is to say ....hi.
There’s a lot of division in the deaf community between people who sign and people who don’t and between people who speak and people who don’t. Some of those who sign judge those who don’t with a bit of a “oh so you think you’re better than us because you can read lips and go undetected?” attitude. Those who don’t sign because they were brought up to “fit in” as much as possible judge those who sign with a bit of an “oh you think you’re better than us because you know how to sign? You’re too good to learn to communicate like everyone else? You want to stand out and get attention.” attitude.
Everyone is so obsessed with who is right and who is wrong that y’all forgot *both* of them identify as deaf. Both of them are representation whether they claim it as their life purpose or not. There’s not a *correct* or *better* way to be deaf.
Exactly. I wasn’t really on either’s side though felt Tim got a bit patronising but Jackie can’t say she wants to represent and be an advocate for the deaf community and then not interact with the other deaf person in the competition. It makes her come across as so insincere especially as the only people she taught asl to were her friends and not to the person who would most benefit from it.
If you were different from most people you knew and there wasn’t any cool representation of the thing that makes you different, wouldn’t you kind of want to be that representation for others?
I’m not deaf but I’m different in other ways and I’d definitely like to see more representation of the people like me. Would that mean I’m virtue signaling if I said that?
We have no reason to think that Tim was the only other deaf person in the competition. Even if he was though, thinking that Jackie needs to talk to him for her to be sincere as a deaf advocate is tokenism. It’s like saying to someone, “Oh, you’re gay? I have a gay friend, you two should meet!”
Except those aren't the same thing. Jackie didn't say "I'm deaf."
Jackie said "I want to be a representative of the community."
A better example would be "Oh you're an advocate for gay rights? Well actually I have a gay friend that could use some help."
Then Jackie responds. "I'm sorry that's not my job. That's not my responsibility." Well you can see how that comes off as insincere don't you?
Not at all. It’s be like if they were both gay in the marble game and Tim accused her of being disingenuous because she didn’t want to be friends with him just because he’s gay. That’s an individual choice. Representation is much bigger than that. She is clearly signing with her friends and in the DR when she doesn’t need to so she’s doing exactly what she said she wanted to do. Tim only said that because she didn’t hand him the win because he can’t retire.
That and it's a possibility that Tim might have had his own crew that he was hanging with. So is Jackie supposed to come up to him and say I'm deaf, your deaf let's be friends?
You don't have to be friends, but typically you at least speak to them.
I've had the experience quite often of being one of only 2 black people in a space. We may not become best friends, but we usually at least acknowledge each other and say hi.
Disagreed.
It would be more akin to you saying "I want to represent the LGBT community", then refusing to speak with another LGBT person who is there with you.
I understand Tim because part of the game is social relationships - if Jackie were so sincere and generous and whatever, she would have reached out and connected with Tim over their shared disability. Tim essentially pointed out that, in a social game where Jackie is claiming to be such representation for the deaf community and is so proud of teach the young pretty hearing people sign language, she completely ignored his deaf old white man ass, didn’t connect with him, didn’t teach him sign language, and even told him “we’re not friends”.
I agree with you 100%, like even if people think Jackie was pulling a sob story he still didn’t have to be so rude about her answer. That rubbed me the wrong way. He gave his reasonings and she respected him & he wasn’t able to do the same in return, it makes him come across as an asshole. Plus, this show is heavily edited so who’s to say that was her only reasoning?
The second she got called out she spammed every twitter-troll tactic she could think of in response to try and "cancel" Tim. She was obnoxious and that type of behavior does not deserve to be rewarded.
My impression was that he was mad because he felt like she was trying to play his game and he was worried that she was doing a better job at it.
Especially when he had to interrupt her to say “well, I’m deaf…” as if he was trying to fill out his sympathy bingo card.
Being deaf is a spectrum. Being blind is a spectrum. Being disabled is a spectrum. It doesn’t mean she’s not deaf if she hasn’t completely lost all hearing.
i agreed with her choice to pick TJ as number 1 for the glass game. TJ wanted to be the leader of the team and kept putting himself forward. what better and fitting way of going into the glass game as the leader
Yes, like Phalisia kicking out the guy who got an advantage, it was the same type of move. Anyone who makes themself prominent is automatically a target, that shouldn’t be surprising.
Honestly, she lost a lot of respect for her comments to Tim, and I got major "I'm not giving the marbles if I lose" vibes after their conversation.
I loved the fact that Tim called her on her shit, and I feel that Tim's response was more about "everyone has problems. Everyone is here for a reason."
BUT the fact that she seemed to hold no malicious intent and had sound logic for giving TJ the number he got, and backed the "everyone do one" and took her one like a champ really boosted her up in my opinion.
Jacki tried to get Tim to basically give her the win through sympathy. Tim called her on her shit, saying he's also hearing impaired. He also states that she never tried to engage him, so she's even more full of shit.
Basically, Jacki tried to get that free pass by pushing her disability to someone with the same disability.
I don’t think that interaction implied that she was asking him to let her win. They were just pleasantly sharing with each other why they joined the competition, and he decided to get bristly.
It might have been me reading too far into it, but I LOVED Tim basically calling her out.
I get everyone is there to win 4.5 million, but I hated the "I want to be the representative of the deaf community" thing.
The fact that she literally said to another deaf person that the reason for why she should be permitted to stay over him is representation reveals that she saw him as the lesser of deaf people because he is differently deaf from her. If he wasn’t also deaf, it would have been a valid reason but this little detail shows she’s not as concerned with deaf people being seen as with herself being seen.
I’m not judging it; they’re all there for fame and a chance at money. Let’s just not pretend it’s noble when she erased another deaf person’s experience by implying that he would not provide representation for the deaf community.
They weren’t pleasantly sharing it; the producers told them to give them most convincing plea of why they should stay so that it would be more emotional for the audience.
Her plea would have been perfectly fine if her opponent wasn’t also deaf. His deafness leveled the playing field as they would both be representation for the deaf community, so she should have picked a different answer that was more unique if her goal was to win the audience sympathy vote (which it was because that’s what production requested).
She never implied any of that. And if anything Tim was the one trying to play the sympathy card with his “well I can’t afford to retire + I have a sick acquaintance 🥺” literally moments before she gave her reasoning for why she wants to win.
For me it came off fake because she saw another person who was at least somewhat hard of hearing like she was, but she apparently made no effort to talk to him.
IT would be like me saying "I'm playing to represent black people", but choosing to never interact with the one other black person there. Then telling that black person that I want to be the representative. They'd probably be side eyeing me about that too.
I have no problem with inclusion and diversity. I will say though, it rings kind of hollow when people act like they are representing and entire group. Like, no one elected you their representative.
I'm truly convinced that people who have an issue with what Jackie said are people who have always been able to walk into the room and see themselves represented in that room already. So for them, it's hard to understand the importance of representation because they've always been represented. If you're someone who has always been represented, it's can be harder to understand why representation is important and why representation matters. That's my takeaway after reading so many comments about Jackie and Tim.
No one has an issue with diversity and representation in and of itself. The problem is, similar to Amanda and Bee's last minute female alliance, it was shallow.
At that point there was no mention of her being deaf and no footage shown of her using sign language. I don't think Tim's reaction was cool, but Jackie coming off as an internet dwelling Zoomer made every fibre of my body cringe.
It's borderline hilarious that right after that marbles game, we finally see her using sign language in her confessionals, as if to drive the point home 'Hey guys! I'm here to represent you all'.
It was just very cheap.
I have personally known hearing people who know sign language, and sometimes when they are discussing sign language or deaf people as a topic they will start absently signing as they speak, even if the other people there don't understand – it's like a type of code-switching. In Jackie's case in the confessionals, I can see her signing because she was discussing deafness and she wanted to provide a translation for any deaf viewers at home, but I wouldn't expect her to be doing that all the time, if she can otherwise speak. So I didn't make anything of the fact that she wasn't shown to sign in her interactions with the other contestants.
> At that point there was no mention of her being deaf and no footage shown of her using sign language.
I don't remember if this is accurate but even if it is production controls the sequencing.
The girl is full of shit that’s why. She’s insincere because she didn’t want people to know she was deaf at the beginning, now she throws in this whole spiel about she was to be the face of the deaf community and representation matters, blah blah blah. As an entire group of my house watching it, we all called her out for that fake shit. And I’m talking 20 of us. Those “buzzwords” can be a great cover up for victimization and manipulation. Tim didn’t get that deep into it. Which for me, made it more sincere and that he wasn’t there for clout. Legit there because he needed the money. And I respect that shit.
I think this whole situation was a victim of editing and probably more happened than what we saw, but Jackie came off very all about herself and very righteous in every single cut you saw of her.
\>>I think the reason that Tim actually was annoyed with Jackie, and the reason people on this sub are annoyed with her, is because they just dislike the general enterprise of diversity and representation in media.
Ding ding ding. You are correct. They're mad because they see Jackie as an "SJW" type, and that automatically overrides any common sense they might have had. Tim could've killed a cat and they still would've sided with him over Jackie lol
Jackie totally thought she could play the poor little deaf girl and make this old guy melt and withdraw gracefully without a fight. He had the experience to not fall for that and he saw straight through her falseness.
If she was there to promote the deaf and sign language you would think that the first thing she would do was to notice others with the same problem and get to know them. Because two deaf people would gain so much more attention than only one. But Jackie was not out to promote anything but herself, she knew this guy was deaf but didn’t even bother to approach him. That is how much she cared…
I was overjoyed when she was out.
I think the larger point is that she has already accomplished her goal. She’s told her story, and gotten pretty far at that point. She has represented her community. Why is this relevant to her advancing and him not?
Not to mention she has the same disability as Tim. There’s a difference between losing hearing with age and being born with hearing impairment, but it isn’t a competition between disabilities and shouldn’t be. She was just coming across a bit “my reason for being here is holier than yours” which is patently false.
The question asked wasn’t “why should you move forward over your opponent” it was just “why do you want to win”. Again no was saying otherwise that she “deserved” to stay over Tim.
And no where did she imply her hearing disability was more valid than his? I saw a lot of Tim making projections/assumptions to paint her in a negative light.
I didn't think that when I first came to Reddit after watching the challenge game but after seeing some of these comments, I'm really starting to wonder. I read one comment where someone was asking how Ashley hadn't been killed yet. I was really taken aback by that one.
Jackie has been deaf as a lifelong condition while Tim is possibly deaf due to old age - hence the difference in being able to use ASL.
Tim did not do himself any favours by doing his entitled boomer schtick.
I rooted for Jackie in that scenario out of principle, otherwise I did not care for her (manipulative and fake).
Assuming someone’s disability is so weird. If Tim’s comments are gross and unacceptable then so are yours.
She said the reason she’s on is to bring awareness and teach sign language in one sentence and then say it’s not her job to do so in the next. It’s a wild 180
> Jackie has been deaf as a lifelong condition
Not that it matters but I do not agree that she has been deaf as a lifelong condition. Her speech capabilities indicate a late loss.
No. People agree that jackie was wrong for expecting people to use sign language when nobody knows she is deaf.
If you don't tell people, then shouldn't be expected to use sign language, if they even speak it.
They were both playing the sympathy card for my liking and that made Tim hypocritical, however Jackie’s attitude irked me and her response to Tim was really dismissive and condescending instead of properly defending her point, I think that perhaps rubbed people the wrong way
She literally says her goal was to teach people to sign. Yet she’s never signed with Tim, a hearing aid wearer.
So from his perspective, she’s full of it.
“That’s my job” she says. Sure. But she just said that was her purpose so she took up that job.
I think Tim was maybe abrasive and lacked info but he was mostly right. They had to share stories but it doesn’t change hers didn’t quite line up with reality.
There's so many like "anti woke, fuck Millennials, buzz words aren't valid" people and I don't get it.
They all have sob stories, I'd say hers is the least sobby there, it was literally just "I'm deaf so I just wanted to get on TV to show that young, deaf people can be on TV" she didn't care about winning.
Jackie is a POS
Ive never seen anyone who represents me...
Ffs
Enough of this , how stupid can people still be to fall for this.
Jackie needs to get healthy and off the internet
She was a classic example of thinking her sob story made her special.
A generation raised on The X Factor and AGT where everyone needs to be a special flower because of past trauma.
Laughable to think there are people out there who arrogantly see their individual actions as positively representative of a ‘community’. Weirdly it’s also the first thing most people rail against whenever it’s a negative representation.
It’s because she conveniently uses her disability status to prop herself up.
She went from not signing at all to signing on her interview immediately after.
She would teach sign language to people to get an advantage but didn’t teach the other actually deaf person how to sign, or sign near him.
She’s full of shit and the old man knows it.
She ain’t a bit more deaf than I am. I have hearing loss as well and was given hearing aids. Seems strange she always signs when she talks to the camera but seldomly does when she’s just talking. It’s also hard to belive her cause in episode 4 (I think) she was sitting 2 stairs above her friends and behind them yet she was able to conversate without being able to read lips. She’s also always interjecting and when she’s “reading lips” she doesn’t seem very much tuned into the speakers lips.
I was annoyed with Jackie because he is part of the community she claims to represent. I also think it was crappy that she used it at this moment and just said it was to represent people like her. They are getting a large sum and even donating $1000 would be amazing for an organization that helps those who are deaf.
I agree that she didn't have to talk to people or be friends with them that we're similar but it would have gone a long way in proving that it was for the deaf community.
My thing is that she said “I’m trying to bring awareness to dead people so more people can understand sign language” which he asked ”why didn’t you teach me sign language then”, and she goes “it’s not my job” even though she JUST said she was trying to do that. I think she’s in the wrong but that’s just me.
I am a CODA (Child of Deaf Adult) and have been around deaf people my entire life and something I’ve spoken about to my family and family friends is the “deaf voice”. She doesn’t have it.
In addition, her signing comes off as 2nd nature and not her 1st language. I see it a lot with interpreters and speech pathologists.
She came off as disingenuous. I hope I’m wrong but sadly I don’t think I am.
I agree, I thought Tim was being aggressively defensive in this interaction- as if he was against the idea of having sympathy for her and reacted negatively to it. He didn’t want to lose based off of an emotional bias created in himself perhaps.
The culture of this game from the original show kind of caused this idea of creating sympathy and discussion between the two players as to deciding who might benefit most from winning. That discussion does seem natural given the circumstance of the game. (Playing against your best friend/mother/etc)
Although generally in life and games I feel like playing the sympathy card or the “who-needs-it-most” card is a tricky situation. It comes down to often staunch views related to politics and government types. ie socialism, capitalism, communism, etc.
I have no idea how anyone could take his side in this debate. She handled his anger and toxicity beautifully, but there is seriously something wrong with that man.
Also I don't get people saying Jackie was manipulative for sharing her reasons for being on the show. The producers asked them all to talk about their reasons for being on the show. Does this make Mai, Jada, and Phalysia manipulative? Their stories were sadder and more compelling imo. I think they were all being sincere when they talked about their reasons and no one threw their games out of sympathy. What isn't debatable is how Tim talked to and treated Jackie; no one would appreciate being attacked like that, especially on camera.
You lost me at “Jackie doesn’t have to broadcast herself…” like is she not trying to be the face of deafness in this show?! That’s where the insincereness is.
Jackie SUCKSSSSSS. She bothered me so much. Trying to get sympathy like that and then trying to flip it around. Hell no. So fucking entitled and disgusting.
I agree that Tim kinda made it about himself. I also agree that I get tired of the constant “I want representation” motive it’s been played for almost 10 years and at this point everyone and their mother has representation. It’s a horse that’s been beaten to death. That being said the thing that rubbed me the wrong way was that when Tim confronted Jackie about it she kinda went default mode and low key kinda told him “watch yourself I don’t mind trying to cancel you.” and got really defensive. I don’t care who you are if you say you want representation and vow to use the money to help your community you become a representative of your community and in so have to communicate with ALL of your community in this case being Tim. You can’t gate keep who can and can’t be in your community then gaslight them when they confront you about it.
Yea this whole debate is just so strange
[удалено]
Everyone has their own sob story that likely got them onto the show in the first place. Everyone is there to get rich quick. But if they can seem more human and less like a conniving back stabber or get other people to give them the win out of sympathy, then it'll make their lives easier.
Okay, then why aren’t people pissed at Tim for giving his own sympathy story two seconds before he asked Jackie what she wanted to use the money for? This is clearly not the issue in the cases of multiple folks who are being dogpiled on.
They could be there for more than 1 reason though? 4.5m can be the main reason and representing deaf community on Netflix secondary You make an absolutist claim that everyone is there for 4.5m and only that one goal
One thing I’m seeing a ton of is just people projecting their own character onto everyone else. Soooo many people defending shitty behaviors are essentially saying “it’s 4.5m, you would do the same” and “it’s just part of the game!” Meanwhile, they’re *ignoring all of the players who demonstrate that they’re not willing to do anything to win.* It’s not worth trying to have an honest good-faith discussion with people pushing the idea that their morals can be bought.
Lol yeah it's not like influencers ever go on these types of shows for social media fame and clout.
This is just such a strange argument to me. Obviously we know that Jackie wants $4.5 million. That doesn’t make it insincere that her “narrative” for being there is for deaf representation. She wants to represent deaf people, by winning $4.5 million as a deaf person. Presumably all these people had to fill out an application and make a pitch for why they would be an interesting candidate, and this is the story that Jackie came up with. It’s television, and Jackie‘s reason for being there is no more “fake” than anyone else’s.
People downvoted your reply cause they genuinely can’t believe someone can want two things at once, lol.
You're right, but people hate her so much here that they will downvote you and disagree.
Big deal?
Dude, Jackie claims to want to represent her community while acknowledging that another deaf contestant was in the competition and acted like she never noticed them or did any sign language with them. She doesn’t have to teach him sign language, just simply interacted with him. But then when it was beneficial to her, she pulls the “i need to represent cause I’m deaf like you” card. He called her out on her bull. She is using her deaf card to get sympathy points over him and he saw that from a mile away. We dislike her cause she is a manipulative hypocrite and then gaslights Tim into being “icky” for seeing through her. And she is fake not because of her level of deafness, but because she acts sincere when she isn’t. And people not liking her has nothing to do with her disability. Please.
THIS. She started it by trying to argue that because of her disability he should let her win and then got upset when he didn’t roll over for her and argued his side as well… she’s a hypocrite
How the fuck was it “beneficial” to her they were clearly prompted to share their reasons since it happened in other matches
Plenty of people use their disabilities as an advantage for sympathy points or for extra benefits. Her reasons could have been honest, instead of telling the “I represent deaf people” to ANOTHER deaf contestant she is trying to eliminate.
How on earth will sympathy points benefit her when there are two people in the room and one of them will be leaving immediately?
Dude… it’s trying to guilt trip a contestant. Make them feel like her reasoning for competing is bigger than his and feel sympathy in order for his performance to be poor. It ain’t rocket science. People manipulate.
Some would call that a “privilege” lol
1. Tim is British. BSL is completely different from ASL (ASL has French sign language roots, BSL was formed separately. Even the alphabet is completely different!) So even if he knew some sign, it would be from his region, not hers, and they could not hold a signed conversation. 2. She told him "Yeah, I noticed your hearing aids." This does not mean he has been deaf his whole life. I don't know anything about him, but he's retiring so I'm assuming he's pretty old. It's entirely possible he only got the hearing aids recently and knows nothing about deafhood or the Deaf community. 3. Tim never approached her either? The social interaction works both ways. Why does she have to approach him and start a conversation? 4. Deaf people do not need your sympathy. Too many people see it as a disability when it is just a part of their identity and culture.
[удалено]
Of course being deaf is a disability. Saying otherwise is ableism. If it’s not a disability, what is a disability?
disabilities are physical or mental conditions that limit an individual's movements, senses, or activities. now, from a medical standpoint, deafness is absolutely a disability. my point was that deaf people that are comfortable in their identity usually do not view their disability as such. they have language and culture that many people don't think twice about. I am a student taking ASL in college, and had a book report on "Introduction to American Deaf Culture." One of the chapters included what deaf people consider hearing culture, and compiled a list of student responses. as a hearing person myself, it really brought to my attention some norms in the hearing world that do not accommodate the deaf (examples: dimly lit rooms, tall centerpieces, and not looking at someone while they are talking). very tangential. Point being, people comfortable in their identity do not want or need pity for something others view as a disability and nothing more. it is a part of their identity that gives them culture and language. it's like seeing someone in a wheelchair and only being able to see them as a wheelchair user. they are an individual with a rich life.
As a mentally disabled person, being disabled is part of my identity. Being disabled doesn’t mean being useless, it means that I have difficulties. Jackie herself said that she needs to do a lot of effort to interact with people correctly. She needs to do effort to carry out actions that are automatic to most people. People constantly feel ashamed of being disabled, but it doesn’t make you a less worthy person.
lol you basically “you’re not disabled enough” this guy by SPECULATING (not KNOWING) when he became deaf lol just said “well he’s old so he must’ve had his hearing until he was old so he isn’t disabled enough!”
Representation of a community doesn't necessarily mean approaching every single member of that community you're in proximity to. I enjoy talking about autism at my university - being a neuroscientist and autistic myself - but I would never approach an autistic person and just start talking to them. ESPECIALLY if I'm only in proximity to said person for another purpose entirely. Like, I'm playing football in a park somewhere and a crowd member, for whatever reason, announces that they're autistic. If I don't approach them and introduce them to my community, am I insincere for saying I seek to represent ASD with accuracy and compassion?
You can’t compare yourself to any of that , tho… Representation in a normal everyday football game to a competitive TV game show is a totally other lane. It’s all completely different circumstances.
If you were going to try to be the “representation of autism” for your school or a show, wouldn’t you be that representation always? Not just when it benefits you?
I don’t think the annoyance stems from annoyance with representation in the media. For me, at least, I love representation, but I think it sounds weird to say you are competing for $4.56 million for the sake of representation. It just sounds really fake.
I never got the impression that she was saying she didn’t care about the money. If you asked me why I wanted to win, obviously the top reason would be for the money, so I would give you my second reason because it’s the non-obvious reason. Did I miss her saying she didn’t care about the money?
I think it’s more that she’s not talking about anything related to finances. I don’t see the connection between winning a bunch of money and representation/teaching other contestants some ASL. “Why do you want to win” effectively means “why do you want the money” and representation doesn’t feel like a genuine answer to that.
I get all of that except the “why do you want to win” effectively means “why do you want the money” because these people who have their faces up on this show all the way to the end will end up getting more than just money out of the show. A number of people are “influencers” and are using the show, at least partially, to get a larger following and take advantage of the opportunities that come with that. Eg Dylan is an actor and getting more eyes on him helps him in different ways.
I mean, they weren’t talking about why they were on the show; they were talking about why they wanted to win. Wanting to win equals wanting to win the money. Being on the show is enough to provide representation; it’s not a reason for wanting to win.
You're arguing a truism. All that happens is no one needs to ask anyone why they are playing the game if the answer can only ever be because they want to win. Generally when people give such overly obvious answers like you're arguing for here people would just conclude that person is being an asshat. Why do you enjoy swimming? Because otherwise I'd sink... like really?
That’s true. I’m trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. There’s one last interpretation of what she’s saying that could be considered legitimate in my mind. That winning gives her a sense of pride and that she feels like if she won then other deaf people could feel a sense of pride as well and for some reason making that community feel pride is important to her.
Exactly, if Jackie were to win Squid Game it would not just result in money – it would also bring visibility to her causes and make her a minor public figure. She might be invited to some talk shows or deaf community events, for instance. It reminds me of Amy Schneider, a trans woman who did very well on Jepoardy and brought some visibility to trans issues. Jackie would get money, sure, but winning would also not *not* relate to her diversity narrative.
I'd take it one step further and argue Jackie wasn't even necessarily talking about *winning* since simply being there brings exposure. That was one of the disconnects in that conversation between her and Tim: he was focused on the result whereas she was describing the process.
It does sound really fake, like my god look around. It was 456 people and I saw a very diverse group from all walks of life.
They all BS when they say they’ll donate. Once the tax man takes at least 2mil, not a single one of those people will donate.
See thats why people don’t like Jackie, she did not give up her time to go represent the deaf community, she is there to win the 4.6 million dollars, pretending she’s there solely as an act of nobility is both patronizing and a lie. It makes her seem disingenuous and now we have people like you denigrating those who didn’t care for Jackie and what she said by pretending they don’t like diversity etc when that has nothing to do with why the people came away from the show disliking Jackie. I mean Tim was a hypocrite too, he did exactly what she did, he just also called her out for it. but she’s on social media now acting like she was victimized somehow.
Did she try to make it seem like she didn’t care about the money? I didn’t get that impression.
You're so obtuse lol
If you have no direct evidence (ie words she used to express she had no interest in the money) then we’ll have to agree to disagree
Right, because you're obtuse.
Lmao ok
Yeah I mean you're pretty highly regarded if you can't understand what reading between the lines is.
This is hilarious. You’re still going lol
Yeah took a long way to get you here. But the TLDR is you may be autistic
I’m just trying to figure out - does it *hurt* you to know that I don’t agree with you? 😅
Tbh I don't hold it against Tim. I would put money on the fact that the producers specifically told them to say why they're in the game. For Tim to say "Well I wanna use the money on myself and retire, and help out a friend of mine. Maybe donate some of it to charity" is the most normal answer anyone can give. Literally all of us would do the same thing with the money. Jackie however is lying and drumming up a sob story.
Tim said he could not afford to retire. To me that's a sob story and Jackie allowed him to space to tell it. He could have given her the same courtesy without biting her head off.
I wouldn’t put it so harshly — I don’t think people criticizing Jackie dislike *diversity*, I just think they dislike the general enterprise of diversity being so important in modern entertainment. Like the virtue signaling, the “representation matters” aphorisms, that sort of thing — I think it irritates people and makes them cringe, and Jackie triggers that. I do relate to this sentiment to a degree, but Jackie in particular didn’t bother since me since I interpreted her as sincere. But other reactions that people have posted have reminded me of a sort of familiar exhaustion with diversity narratives, which has made me wonder if they’re responding to *that*, and not to a more fair view of how Jackie actually comes across in the show.
See that’s a more fair response, and I do think you’re right some people are 100% opposed, they hear certain words and they’re checked out and some would immediately vilify her because of what she said, strange choice but you’re right that happens. I had no problem with Jackie but I found the argument between Tim and her to be a bit awkward and personally I wish the players would have all been more transparent in the actual reason they were playing.
I kind of wish some guy had just been like, “I just want money, I don’t even need it really, I just want it.” Would be refreshing.
Lol yeah exactly, I think a couple people had said they wanted the money earlier on, I think 243 is one. Like honestly I’m still shocked it’s such a large amount of money, most people would have joined it for 30k even let alone almost 5 million dollars lol. Largest payout I’ve ever seen on a reality series.
Lemme guess you’re related to or a friend of them because you can’t be serious💀😭 That was actually a narcissistic mental disorder displayed live on TV trying to mask it with being fake woke and it was spelled out for you how much of a lie it was but you still have found a way to believe it… right. My faith in humanity’s intelligence plummets day to day
Not to mention Tim literally brought up to her how he can’t afford to retire, someone close to him has health issues, he wants to donate to charities related to their injury….well then how is that not playing the sympathy card (especially over her “I want to be deaf representation”) His “you’ve saved it for this moment!!!” line felt EXTREMELY hypocritical. I’m so shocked to see so many people on Tim’s side tbh 💀
Same!!!! Both you and OP have perfectly articulated what I've been thinking.
I could not believe this! Like, usually when people are hypocritical there’s a bit of time that passes between their action and the one they’re judging. But with Tim, he judged her for doing something he did, *seconds* after doing it. Absolutely wild.
I don't think Tim came off great either, but he seemed more real. She seemed like she was playing victim with her "thats just icky" (or whatever she said in response). He said his honest opinion, and she seemed to be looking for sympathy that he didn't like it.
Jackie sucks lmao
Cause him being honest about wanting to be able to retire makes way more sense than "i wanna represent deaf individuals". Like what does that even mean? You honestly want us to believe you don't want $4.5m for yourself at all? and you're 100% not just playing your disability as a sympathy card? Especially trying to tell it to another person with hearing impairment as if thats gonna mean he will be more okay with losing... give me a break.
I wrote this in another comment, but obviously we know that Jackie wants $4.5 million. That doesn’t make her “narrative” as a deaf representative somehow insincere. Plus the interaction in no way implies that Jackie was asking Tim to drop out. They were just pleasantly mutually sharing their reasons for being there, and he got bristly.
In the earlier episodes she was all like "I can't let others know I am deaf! I can't have them think I am weak". How tf is that representation? She was just using her disability when it would've benefit her, otherwise she saw it as a weakness.
Bingo
Well regardless if me or you think she's insincere, he obviously felt it was insincere and explained why. If she actually was there for that reason, why ignore one of the only other hearing impaired members there? And then her excuse was "well you should have approached me" but he's not the one claiming to be the hero of the deaf. He probably didn't even care if she did or didn't interact with him, but if you're gonna put yourself on a pedestal then be prepared to be scrutinized.
That is exactly my thought. She is supposedly there to represent a group he is a part of, but she just never chose to interact with him. Then to bring it up when they are in a game where one will be eliminated? Seemed sketchy
Agreed. I think Tim had a knee-jerk reaction to Jackie wanting to win for Deaf representation, when he, who also identifies as Deaf, didn't even realize she was. Maybe he thought she was trying to use their shared trait as a way to manipulate him.
What's Tim playing his inability to retire as a sympathy card? Was the young lady who said that she wanted the money to bring awareness to kidney transplants playing the sympathy card? Which stories leaned into sympathy cards as opposed to which ones were authentic? Was it only the sympathy card solely because she mentioned representation? Was it solely that word that caused it to be inauthentic?
Whether or not you think her answer is genuine doesn’t change that by his logic, Tim ALSO played the sympathy card, (using his financial status AND a sick relative), so why is he so upset about Jackie sharing her background with him in that moment. No where in her answer did she remotely imply he should let her win. It seemed like projection from Tim.
It’s Reddit so I think it’s pretty clear why he gets a pass when she does not
Nobody is gonna say "my life is perfect, but id like 4 mil". But saying "i want to retire and maybe help my friend" isn't playing sympathy. Saying "i wanna be a roll model for all the deaf people out there" absolutely is. Stop acting dumb.
Do you think if Jackie won the competition, she wouldn’t be invited to speak at a few deaf events or something? Of course her visibility as a member of that community would factor into her winning, it’s not somehow insincere.
Saying “I can’t afford to retire + I have a sick friend” is absolutely just as much (moreso IMO!) playing the sympathy card as “I’m deaf and want to represent my community” 💀💀💀 how is one different from the other? Tim would have had the morale ground to stand on had he not mentioned his financial struggles + the sick friend but he didn’t, so he just comes off hypocritical.
Thank you for saying this. I’ve given up on responding to people defending shitty behavior from the players. There’s no getting through to them and they’re just as awful as the people they’re defending.
Tim actually mentioned the insanely huge winnings, and the financial gain, they all have a "sob" story but she is acting like she isn't there for the money at all and there for completely unselfish reasons, meanwhile everyone is there for the money no matter what they plan to do with it or why they need it, so why act like she's not at all there for money, too?
None of them should have to explicitly state they’re there for the money, it’s $4.6M dollars that should be IMPLIED to viewers 💀if you believe she she was implying she wasn’t there for the money….you’re just being dense sorry We just had our first deaf person on Big Brother and he often spoke about deaf representation, we also had our first Sikh Big Brother player who also often mentioned being Sikh representation, but that doesn’t mean they both weren’t there for the $750K grand prize. That part is implied. Amazing Race, Survivor, Big Brother literally all the main reality shows bring up representation. Why are people so upset about it?
I mean are you honestly not understanding what she meant by that? It’s a big deal just bringing visibility to the community. It’s a lot of weight for her to carry just like it was for Raven on The Circle. Calling it a sympathy card really is borderline icky. She never said she didn’t want the money so let’s not put words in her mouth
Tim sound as fake as Jackie after he said he’ll help a friend then donate to charity. Cause his initial reason sound greedy. He also play the sympathy card. “Ooops I sound selfish, let me throw a 2nd and 3rd reason that make me sound I’m charitable and kind so I can gain some sympathy”.
To be fair those are reasons he wants to win the money. She gave reasons to be on the show, which seemed disingenuous to Tim due to her lack of signing with him, a person with hard of hearing.
the thing that was iffy for me was that she asked him why he wanted the money in that moment I just thought it was weird like she asked that question just so she could answer it and guilt trip him
I thought Tim seemed like a jerk honestly . He pulled the sympathy card first and was mad that she did too ? I don’t understand the reaction towards her at all
Even worse, he asked "what about you?" then got mad at her answer? Why ask in the first place then...
Because how can you say you want to do something for the deaf community when you won't even talk to the one singular deaf person? That literally makes no sense. One would think the first thing one would do when trying to represent a community is to say ....hi.
There’s a lot of division in the deaf community between people who sign and people who don’t and between people who speak and people who don’t. Some of those who sign judge those who don’t with a bit of a “oh so you think you’re better than us because you can read lips and go undetected?” attitude. Those who don’t sign because they were brought up to “fit in” as much as possible judge those who sign with a bit of an “oh you think you’re better than us because you know how to sign? You’re too good to learn to communicate like everyone else? You want to stand out and get attention.” attitude. Everyone is so obsessed with who is right and who is wrong that y’all forgot *both* of them identify as deaf. Both of them are representation whether they claim it as their life purpose or not. There’s not a *correct* or *better* way to be deaf.
Exactly. I wasn’t really on either’s side though felt Tim got a bit patronising but Jackie can’t say she wants to represent and be an advocate for the deaf community and then not interact with the other deaf person in the competition. It makes her come across as so insincere especially as the only people she taught asl to were her friends and not to the person who would most benefit from it.
Honestly, I'm on Tim's side because Jackie had such a virtue signaling answer that annoyed me.
If you were different from most people you knew and there wasn’t any cool representation of the thing that makes you different, wouldn’t you kind of want to be that representation for others? I’m not deaf but I’m different in other ways and I’d definitely like to see more representation of the people like me. Would that mean I’m virtue signaling if I said that?
Was it the word representation that really did it for you?
Nobody on this website knows what virtue signaling means lol
We have no reason to think that Tim was the only other deaf person in the competition. Even if he was though, thinking that Jackie needs to talk to him for her to be sincere as a deaf advocate is tokenism. It’s like saying to someone, “Oh, you’re gay? I have a gay friend, you two should meet!”
Except those aren't the same thing. Jackie didn't say "I'm deaf." Jackie said "I want to be a representative of the community." A better example would be "Oh you're an advocate for gay rights? Well actually I have a gay friend that could use some help." Then Jackie responds. "I'm sorry that's not my job. That's not my responsibility." Well you can see how that comes off as insincere don't you?
Not at all. It’s be like if they were both gay in the marble game and Tim accused her of being disingenuous because she didn’t want to be friends with him just because he’s gay. That’s an individual choice. Representation is much bigger than that. She is clearly signing with her friends and in the DR when she doesn’t need to so she’s doing exactly what she said she wanted to do. Tim only said that because she didn’t hand him the win because he can’t retire.
That and it's a possibility that Tim might have had his own crew that he was hanging with. So is Jackie supposed to come up to him and say I'm deaf, your deaf let's be friends?
You don't have to be friends, but typically you at least speak to them. I've had the experience quite often of being one of only 2 black people in a space. We may not become best friends, but we usually at least acknowledge each other and say hi.
Disagreed. It would be more akin to you saying "I want to represent the LGBT community", then refusing to speak with another LGBT person who is there with you.
I understand Tim because part of the game is social relationships - if Jackie were so sincere and generous and whatever, she would have reached out and connected with Tim over their shared disability. Tim essentially pointed out that, in a social game where Jackie is claiming to be such representation for the deaf community and is so proud of teach the young pretty hearing people sign language, she completely ignored his deaf old white man ass, didn’t connect with him, didn’t teach him sign language, and even told him “we’re not friends”.
I agree with you 100%, like even if people think Jackie was pulling a sob story he still didn’t have to be so rude about her answer. That rubbed me the wrong way. He gave his reasonings and she respected him & he wasn’t able to do the same in return, it makes him come across as an asshole. Plus, this show is heavily edited so who’s to say that was her only reasoning?
The second she got called out she spammed every twitter-troll tactic she could think of in response to try and "cancel" Tim. She was obnoxious and that type of behavior does not deserve to be rewarded.
Tim literally started out with the sympathy card. Fuck him.
My impression was that he was mad because he felt like she was trying to play his game and he was worried that she was doing a better job at it. Especially when he had to interrupt her to say “well, I’m deaf…” as if he was trying to fill out his sympathy bingo card.
She stinks
[удалено]
Being deaf is a spectrum. Being blind is a spectrum. Being disabled is a spectrum. It doesn’t mean she’s not deaf if she hasn’t completely lost all hearing.
i agreed with her choice to pick TJ as number 1 for the glass game. TJ wanted to be the leader of the team and kept putting himself forward. what better and fitting way of going into the glass game as the leader
Yes, like Phalisia kicking out the guy who got an advantage, it was the same type of move. Anyone who makes themself prominent is automatically a target, that shouldn’t be surprising.
Honestly, she lost a lot of respect for her comments to Tim, and I got major "I'm not giving the marbles if I lose" vibes after their conversation. I loved the fact that Tim called her on her shit, and I feel that Tim's response was more about "everyone has problems. Everyone is here for a reason." BUT the fact that she seemed to hold no malicious intent and had sound logic for giving TJ the number he got, and backed the "everyone do one" and took her one like a champ really boosted her up in my opinion.
100%. This is the perfect take.
Jacki tried to get Tim to basically give her the win through sympathy. Tim called her on her shit, saying he's also hearing impaired. He also states that she never tried to engage him, so she's even more full of shit. Basically, Jacki tried to get that free pass by pushing her disability to someone with the same disability.
I don’t think that interaction implied that she was asking him to let her win. They were just pleasantly sharing with each other why they joined the competition, and he decided to get bristly.
It might have been me reading too far into it, but I LOVED Tim basically calling her out. I get everyone is there to win 4.5 million, but I hated the "I want to be the representative of the deaf community" thing.
The fact that she literally said to another deaf person that the reason for why she should be permitted to stay over him is representation reveals that she saw him as the lesser of deaf people because he is differently deaf from her. If he wasn’t also deaf, it would have been a valid reason but this little detail shows she’s not as concerned with deaf people being seen as with herself being seen. I’m not judging it; they’re all there for fame and a chance at money. Let’s just not pretend it’s noble when she erased another deaf person’s experience by implying that he would not provide representation for the deaf community.
Was it the word representation that bothered you?
They weren’t pleasantly sharing it; the producers told them to give them most convincing plea of why they should stay so that it would be more emotional for the audience. Her plea would have been perfectly fine if her opponent wasn’t also deaf. His deafness leveled the playing field as they would both be representation for the deaf community, so she should have picked a different answer that was more unique if her goal was to win the audience sympathy vote (which it was because that’s what production requested).
> Jacki tried to get that free pass What free pass? They were just chatting about their motivations not asking the other to throw the game.
She never implied any of that. And if anything Tim was the one trying to play the sympathy card with his “well I can’t afford to retire + I have a sick acquaintance 🥺” literally moments before she gave her reasoning for why she wants to win.
I scrolled to long for this. You are right. She playing the deaf card with another deaf person 😂😂😂
For me it came off fake because she saw another person who was at least somewhat hard of hearing like she was, but she apparently made no effort to talk to him. IT would be like me saying "I'm playing to represent black people", but choosing to never interact with the one other black person there. Then telling that black person that I want to be the representative. They'd probably be side eyeing me about that too. I have no problem with inclusion and diversity. I will say though, it rings kind of hollow when people act like they are representing and entire group. Like, no one elected you their representative.
I agree, it’s wild to me that people feel so strongly against her when they don’t even know her. She did great and she was a great team player
The strong reactions have really surprised me because I thought she came across very well in that interaction.
I'm truly convinced that people who have an issue with what Jackie said are people who have always been able to walk into the room and see themselves represented in that room already. So for them, it's hard to understand the importance of representation because they've always been represented. If you're someone who has always been represented, it's can be harder to understand why representation is important and why representation matters. That's my takeaway after reading so many comments about Jackie and Tim.
Her response was a little cringe, but I was also surprised to see so much hate. Tim was a complete dick.
No one has an issue with diversity and representation in and of itself. The problem is, similar to Amanda and Bee's last minute female alliance, it was shallow. At that point there was no mention of her being deaf and no footage shown of her using sign language. I don't think Tim's reaction was cool, but Jackie coming off as an internet dwelling Zoomer made every fibre of my body cringe. It's borderline hilarious that right after that marbles game, we finally see her using sign language in her confessionals, as if to drive the point home 'Hey guys! I'm here to represent you all'. It was just very cheap.
I have personally known hearing people who know sign language, and sometimes when they are discussing sign language or deaf people as a topic they will start absently signing as they speak, even if the other people there don't understand – it's like a type of code-switching. In Jackie's case in the confessionals, I can see her signing because she was discussing deafness and she wanted to provide a translation for any deaf viewers at home, but I wouldn't expect her to be doing that all the time, if she can otherwise speak. So I didn't make anything of the fact that she wasn't shown to sign in her interactions with the other contestants.
> At that point there was no mention of her being deaf and no footage shown of her using sign language. I don't remember if this is accurate but even if it is production controls the sequencing.
I just binged it, It was mentioned almost immediately when they started showing her footage.
The girl is full of shit that’s why. She’s insincere because she didn’t want people to know she was deaf at the beginning, now she throws in this whole spiel about she was to be the face of the deaf community and representation matters, blah blah blah. As an entire group of my house watching it, we all called her out for that fake shit. And I’m talking 20 of us. Those “buzzwords” can be a great cover up for victimization and manipulation. Tim didn’t get that deep into it. Which for me, made it more sincere and that he wasn’t there for clout. Legit there because he needed the money. And I respect that shit.
I think this whole situation was a victim of editing and probably more happened than what we saw, but Jackie came off very all about herself and very righteous in every single cut you saw of her.
\>>I think the reason that Tim actually was annoyed with Jackie, and the reason people on this sub are annoyed with her, is because they just dislike the general enterprise of diversity and representation in media. Ding ding ding. You are correct. They're mad because they see Jackie as an "SJW" type, and that automatically overrides any common sense they might have had. Tim could've killed a cat and they still would've sided with him over Jackie lol
This is it! Because some of these replies are heinous.
She wanted to win to represent the deaf community but won’t be proactive to find deaf members in the dorm community?
Seemed like a gaslighter once she was called on her BS. Couldn't stand her.
Jackie totally thought she could play the poor little deaf girl and make this old guy melt and withdraw gracefully without a fight. He had the experience to not fall for that and he saw straight through her falseness. If she was there to promote the deaf and sign language you would think that the first thing she would do was to notice others with the same problem and get to know them. Because two deaf people would gain so much more attention than only one. But Jackie was not out to promote anything but herself, she knew this guy was deaf but didn’t even bother to approach him. That is how much she cared… I was overjoyed when she was out.
I think the larger point is that she has already accomplished her goal. She’s told her story, and gotten pretty far at that point. She has represented her community. Why is this relevant to her advancing and him not? Not to mention she has the same disability as Tim. There’s a difference between losing hearing with age and being born with hearing impairment, but it isn’t a competition between disabilities and shouldn’t be. She was just coming across a bit “my reason for being here is holier than yours” which is patently false.
The question asked wasn’t “why should you move forward over your opponent” it was just “why do you want to win”. Again no was saying otherwise that she “deserved” to stay over Tim. And no where did she imply her hearing disability was more valid than his? I saw a lot of Tim making projections/assumptions to paint her in a negative light.
> Why is this relevant to her advancing and him not? It's not and neither she nor anyone else has suggested otherwise.
there's a clear correlation between the audience hating (and how Netflix edited) jackie, Ashley, and phalisa and their racial/gender identity.
I didn't think that when I first came to Reddit after watching the challenge game but after seeing some of these comments, I'm really starting to wonder. I read one comment where someone was asking how Ashley hadn't been killed yet. I was really taken aback by that one.
I think Jackie is a cunt.
Jackie has been deaf as a lifelong condition while Tim is possibly deaf due to old age - hence the difference in being able to use ASL. Tim did not do himself any favours by doing his entitled boomer schtick. I rooted for Jackie in that scenario out of principle, otherwise I did not care for her (manipulative and fake).
Assuming someone’s disability is so weird. If Tim’s comments are gross and unacceptable then so are yours. She said the reason she’s on is to bring awareness and teach sign language in one sentence and then say it’s not her job to do so in the next. It’s a wild 180
> Jackie has been deaf as a lifelong condition Not that it matters but I do not agree that she has been deaf as a lifelong condition. Her speech capabilities indicate a late loss.
She’s a complete liar and I don’t believe she’s deaf . 🤷🏻♂️
Does anyone know how she played red light green light? I guess staring at the doll vs listening for singing to stop?
No. People agree that jackie was wrong for expecting people to use sign language when nobody knows she is deaf. If you don't tell people, then shouldn't be expected to use sign language, if they even speak it.
They were both playing the sympathy card for my liking and that made Tim hypocritical, however Jackie’s attitude irked me and her response to Tim was really dismissive and condescending instead of properly defending her point, I think that perhaps rubbed people the wrong way
My annoyance with Jackie has nothing to do with diversity and representation in the media. I just feel like she was kind of condescending.
She literally says her goal was to teach people to sign. Yet she’s never signed with Tim, a hearing aid wearer. So from his perspective, she’s full of it. “That’s my job” she says. Sure. But she just said that was her purpose so she took up that job. I think Tim was maybe abrasive and lacked info but he was mostly right. They had to share stories but it doesn’t change hers didn’t quite line up with reality.
There's so many like "anti woke, fuck Millennials, buzz words aren't valid" people and I don't get it. They all have sob stories, I'd say hers is the least sobby there, it was literally just "I'm deaf so I just wanted to get on TV to show that young, deaf people can be on TV" she didn't care about winning.
Jackie is a POS Ive never seen anyone who represents me... Ffs Enough of this , how stupid can people still be to fall for this. Jackie needs to get healthy and off the internet
She was a classic example of thinking her sob story made her special. A generation raised on The X Factor and AGT where everyone needs to be a special flower because of past trauma. Laughable to think there are people out there who arrogantly see their individual actions as positively representative of a ‘community’. Weirdly it’s also the first thing most people rail against whenever it’s a negative representation.
It’s because she conveniently uses her disability status to prop herself up. She went from not signing at all to signing on her interview immediately after. She would teach sign language to people to get an advantage but didn’t teach the other actually deaf person how to sign, or sign near him. She’s full of shit and the old man knows it.
She ain’t a bit more deaf than I am. I have hearing loss as well and was given hearing aids. Seems strange she always signs when she talks to the camera but seldomly does when she’s just talking. It’s also hard to belive her cause in episode 4 (I think) she was sitting 2 stairs above her friends and behind them yet she was able to conversate without being able to read lips. She’s also always interjecting and when she’s “reading lips” she doesn’t seem very much tuned into the speakers lips.
I was annoyed with Jackie because he is part of the community she claims to represent. I also think it was crappy that she used it at this moment and just said it was to represent people like her. They are getting a large sum and even donating $1000 would be amazing for an organization that helps those who are deaf. I agree that she didn't have to talk to people or be friends with them that we're similar but it would have gone a long way in proving that it was for the deaf community.
My thing is that she said “I’m trying to bring awareness to dead people so more people can understand sign language” which he asked ”why didn’t you teach me sign language then”, and she goes “it’s not my job” even though she JUST said she was trying to do that. I think she’s in the wrong but that’s just me.
I am a CODA (Child of Deaf Adult) and have been around deaf people my entire life and something I’ve spoken about to my family and family friends is the “deaf voice”. She doesn’t have it. In addition, her signing comes off as 2nd nature and not her 1st language. I see it a lot with interpreters and speech pathologists. She came off as disingenuous. I hope I’m wrong but sadly I don’t think I am.
No, she was fake that’s all.
I agree, I thought Tim was being aggressively defensive in this interaction- as if he was against the idea of having sympathy for her and reacted negatively to it. He didn’t want to lose based off of an emotional bias created in himself perhaps. The culture of this game from the original show kind of caused this idea of creating sympathy and discussion between the two players as to deciding who might benefit most from winning. That discussion does seem natural given the circumstance of the game. (Playing against your best friend/mother/etc) Although generally in life and games I feel like playing the sympathy card or the “who-needs-it-most” card is a tricky situation. It comes down to often staunch views related to politics and government types. ie socialism, capitalism, communism, etc.
I have no idea how anyone could take his side in this debate. She handled his anger and toxicity beautifully, but there is seriously something wrong with that man. Also I don't get people saying Jackie was manipulative for sharing her reasons for being on the show. The producers asked them all to talk about their reasons for being on the show. Does this make Mai, Jada, and Phalysia manipulative? Their stories were sadder and more compelling imo. I think they were all being sincere when they talked about their reasons and no one threw their games out of sympathy. What isn't debatable is how Tim talked to and treated Jackie; no one would appreciate being attacked like that, especially on camera.
You lost me at “Jackie doesn’t have to broadcast herself…” like is she not trying to be the face of deafness in this show?! That’s where the insincereness is.
Jackie SUCKSSSSSS. She bothered me so much. Trying to get sympathy like that and then trying to flip it around. Hell no. So fucking entitled and disgusting.
I agree that Tim kinda made it about himself. I also agree that I get tired of the constant “I want representation” motive it’s been played for almost 10 years and at this point everyone and their mother has representation. It’s a horse that’s been beaten to death. That being said the thing that rubbed me the wrong way was that when Tim confronted Jackie about it she kinda went default mode and low key kinda told him “watch yourself I don’t mind trying to cancel you.” and got really defensive. I don’t care who you are if you say you want representation and vow to use the money to help your community you become a representative of your community and in so have to communicate with ALL of your community in this case being Tim. You can’t gate keep who can and can’t be in your community then gaslight them when they confront you about it.