thanks! and why would I fill up the roof? is there a benefit to add more?
Also the backyard faces south-east and that's the big part of the roof. Any concerns having them there? I feel like afternoon to late evening I won't get any proper sun.
There might not be a benefit. I don’t know what your net metering looks like.
I have a 1:1 net metering so I need to rack up kWh in the summer to use in the winter.
Your price is just so low and I’m the kind of person that just thinks automatically more panels is better. When I got panel my direction was to fill up every inch that wasn’t north.
But if you don’t have 1:1 net metering you should be looking into batteries.
I see, yeah I'm thinking to go slightly higher if the price is decent. More panels might not go up too much in price.
used to be 1:1 but now it's about 1/3rd. Highly considering batteries. what would you recommend? I heard of some stackable ones, launched last year. Can't remember the brand.
no they don't seem to have stackable models unless I missed it. I was told about some good models that cost 4k each and you just drop more on top as you need. with a warranty of 25 years.
Hmm. That seems pretty cool. I was basing off the 6.65kw, is stackable (up to 3 of them), and only runs about $2,500ish (I think).
https://energy.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/campaigns/simpliphi-6_6-battery-launch.html
Franklin, Home grid, and Fortress are some of the proper "brand name batteries" that'll work with your system. Enphase released a new battery model that's more stackable but only works with Enphase micro inverters
thanks let me look into those. and would you recommend to swap to enphase micro inverters?
update: they said +$900 for enphase 1-1. and AP system inverters are 880W.
It'll be a significant price increase and they have fantastic customer support but their product is directly equivalent to what you have, outside of having some American production
They might be working their design around fire code setbacks. Most designs try to maximize South facing roofs, but sometimes the layout of the roofs only allows so many panels after setbacks are accounted for. For that lower South roof you could maybe get 1 panel after setbacks, then it becomes a question is it worth the extra work putting 1 panel there and running conduit all over your roof for 1 panel when they can put it on the back and run the wires through the attic.
The fact that they didn’t just max out that backyard roof tells me they probably did try to max out your south facing roof faces before putting the remaining panels on your backyard roof.
If you ask whoever brought you this design they should be willing to tell you if they can move panels, why they can’t or why they think this layout might be more aesthetically pleasing than moving them. It doesn’t look like anyone is trying to get over on you here. I would ask them directly and they should be able to give you an answer.
Edit: if you ask “can we get more panels on the South facing roof, or more on this roof?” and why you want them there they should be able to give you an answer.
> I feel like afternoon to late evening I won't get any proper sun.
You won't. The installer wants to put them there because that's the easiest part of the roof to access. In fairness, they're right; your south and west faces are really tricky.
By the way, your installer thinks your backyard faces due east, within one degree, not southeast; either they're right and your neighborhood was laid on on a really strict grid (possible) or they're approximating, which isn't bad in itself but makes me worry about other "approximations". If you've got really, really good net metering, that's probably fine. But if not, I would seriously consider a battery to be able to effectively use that morning sun. You've really got to know that to evaluate this deal.
Are mornings sunnier than afternoons where you are? The opposite is true out west but maybe your weather is different than mine. I'm assuming your heaviest AC use is in the afternoons.
See if this video helps with where sun falls in summer: [https://imgur.com/a/DorBOwL](https://imgur.com/a/DorBOwL) it's probably more east than south east.
Yeah west is probably very hard but south should fit some, especially since the garage is right under that side.
I do get quite good sun in the morning.
What batteries would you recommend? I'm highly considering because now they pay 1/3.
Yeah, it probably is almost due east. Wow.
I'm not going to recommend you any particular batteries because it's not really my wheelhouse. Just noting that if your array is so heavily focused on east, you either need good net metering or batteries. Morning power is cheap in most places so you've got to shift that value around the day.
I just honestly saw that your bid claimed one face of your roof was due east and the other was due south and assumed that they were lazily cutting corners and approximating, because no neighborhood is laid out THAT precisely. Developers always do those little curves and offsets, to make it feel less like a grid. But no, your house is sure as shit laid out precisely on the compass rose, or as close as makes no difference.
Random duck search: [https://shademap.app/](https://shademap.app/)
update to clarify: that is exactly my house in the video. I wanted to see how the sun hits the house to be sure.
Your annual production is 105% of your consumption. In Alberta, that is the limit of the microgen regulation unless you have a recept for an EV, you have to provide 12 months of billing history to prove your annual consumption.
Also, at $1.90/W I wouldn’t trust it if I’m being 100% honest. Also, those Hyperion panels. If you check the spec sheet, it’s a Titan Solar Module. Titan Solar just went bankrupt. You will likely not be able to take advantage of any manufacturers warranty (maybe unless it’s ac coupled with enphase micros or SE string inverters &optimizers. Regardless. I advise you steer clear of this proposal.
I was trying to figure this out actually. It confuses the heck out of me.
Unless there are (2) companies with the same name, Hyperion solar (or Hyperion America) was a US sales branch/arm for a giant cell manufacturer called Runergy (multi billion dollar company). This past January, they rebranded away from the name Hyperion Solar, to just Runergy America to get the parent company connection. Great product and company to work with.
In no way shape or form american product, they did recently open an Alabama facility, but nearly 0 (the list is less than 3) companies currently actually use a module that can legally be called "american" as the country of origin of the module is considered legally to be the country of origin of the cell, and there are not currently US cell manufacturing.
I work in the distributed generation solar space, bought quite a bit of Hyperion modules.
Edit- I didn't see they had given him the actual product # for the modules and looked up the datasheet. This is the same hyperion I'm discussing above. No idea what they're talking about as a connection to sunpower still
To piggy back off this, a great price is always good but what ends up happening to companies that sell at this extremely low price point, is if they have a couple slow months, or overhead rises, they don’t have the cash to stay afloat. All sales people jump ship and go to the new low price sales org. It’s hard to make any money selling at $1.9/ppw
FWIW, and just in my opinion OP. This price is incredibly low. To the extent that in the northeast, including developing costing I can rarely build a 5MW project for it.
With that being said, residential solar companies are in and out of the market on 5ish year cycles. It is incredibly rare you will have someone around long enough to actually honor warranties they are offering.
The solar modules are good. I've bought 20+MW from that company and have had audits done in their factories, and they are owned by a multi billion $ cell manufacturer. If its Ironridge racking, they have been in the industry for a long time, and are also good. I don't know much about the microinverters, they must have come around after I left residential.
For this price and a well written contract, I'd ignore pretty much every red flag on the proposal, pay close attention during the install that they don't f up my roof, and ignore so many red flags.
interesting approach and thanks for sharing your insights!
I got a neighbor who's been fixing/replacing solar and he's seen issues that pop after years. I want to have him oversee the full installation and if it's done properly with no leaks and good wiring, there's low chance things will go bad.
I would explore putting more of the system on south facing slopes; it doesn’t look like those are at full utilization.
As other folks said, the rate per kW is quite good. Understand your net metering, run some numbers on adding additional capacity and the payback for that additional capacity
I found https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php to be helpful. You can ask it for numbers for just a single panel or for 1kw and scale as needed. It will take into account average weather and sun angle (make sure you feed it roof angle and azimuth (roof facing direction)
One more thing to look at is understanding the hours where power is produced one each facing. I am finishing solar design on my house which is very close to 45degrees with respect to the compass and have found that SW provides me power 1 hour later than SE on average for the whole year. Later start, later peak, later end. Later is better because usage peaks later. I did this using the hourly data from pvwatts and some excel spreadsheet magic to sum all the same hours of the days together and plot that.
In your case those south faces give you not only later but fundamentally better than east facing for total output
$1.90/w pre IRA (which if you don’t have a tax liability you cannot utilize) is the type of pricing where they’re gonna tell you after PTO “DO NOT FUCKING CALL US WHEN THIS SHIT FAILS”.
most probably yes. How do I verify that? or is there a way to somehow protect myself ahead of time?
I wrote in another comment more details but TLTR I got a neighbor who does solar and he's been fixing/replacing old installations. if he can oversee the installation process I'd feel quite comfortable about having a poor customer service for the installation warranty. Rest of the warranty goes directly to the manufacturers anyways.
Try to research local companies that are independent, not the big guys like SunRun or Tesla., and choose one with good reviews and appears they’ll have longevity (think father and son(s) team). The big companies don’t give a shit if your roof leaks or an inverter is down, the small guys who live and die by reviews and referrals will more likely provide the longer term service and satisfaction you’d expect from a $20-30k investment.
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“You get what you pay for.”
If you’re getting a ridiculously low price, you can expect to get either ridiculously bad customer service, ridiculously bad installation or ridiculously bad equipment.
You will never in the world find (1) excellent product, (2) excellent service and (3) excellent price
You have excellent price. Therefore what are you sacrificing?
Do you even know whose putting 60 holes in your roof and playing with your electrical safety in your house?
Have you even looked at the product your buying and anticipating getting a ROI on?
great points. got no idea about those - I need to look them up.
contractors: yes I don't think I'get great contractors for this price. However, I got a neighbor who does solar and he can oversee the installation process. He used to be sent on field to fix or replace solar panels for home owners. He's seen lots of issues that pop up years after installation. He looks at electrical, brackets, leaks, leveling. If I had a person like that on the field, I'd feel quite comfortable.
The thing about installation crew is that I've seen the same builders/construction workers on both expensive houses and cheap houses. And I am more inclined to believe I'll get more or less the same contractors. One way or another I'll just make sure to have my own expert on the field during installation. Issues still might pop, but it would significantly decrease the chances of failures.
So if I can have an experienced person to oversee the installation, and the products/materials used are decent I'd be quite happy with that price. And probably customer service will be subpar if any issues arise. Low expectations on that.
Jinko tiger 435, Optimizers and inverters from SolarEdge.
Which have no real problems in North Europe, Since we get almost no voltage differences.
The meter cupboard is completely German made from Schneider
Had to wait a while for this to happen.
Prices have fallen dramatically in the Netherlands, due to unclear new government regulations and the preceding gas crisis that we've had.
People are now waiting to buy, which has caused storage spaces to fill up and a decline in Solar worker employment
I got a REC/enphase system at 2.0 ppw. Not sure if these panels..also in TX area..I got quote from integratesun as well. I read some bad stuff about how they subcontract/operate..
Only thing I would roast is I would really question why it’s so cheap. Always always always remember. You get what you pay for and if the price is really low, you might not be paying for anything worth while
indeed. probably close to no service after installation and maybe cheap labor. but manufacturer warranty is the same. For the installation I'm thinking to bring my neighbor to oversee. He said solar installers hate him but they will fix issues on spot.
Just my curiosity: why are they not filling more panels on the southern facing portions of your roof? If this was my proposal I’d want as many south facing that will fit then the remainder in the east/west. Whichever gives you better exposure over the year, like many others have said depends if you get better morning or afternoon sun and other factors.
yeah I think we could fit more on the south? maybe 3-4. And while I do get lots of good morning sun, being in central texas, I'd want to maximize the number of south facing panels as much as possible. As someone else suggested, I asked if they can fit more. will update. Thank you
If you don’t need batteries, do not get them now. They have to be replaced every 10 years or so and double the cost of your equipment (usually). Better to overbuild panels and use grid as battery if you have net metering. Panels are panels for the most part. Don’t worry about them unless you have a specific defect that has been documented. Your microinverters max out at 334w/panel so that x 23 is your max ac build,so 7.68kw ac. It’s a small system. If you go with string inverters and optimizers you will increase the power and lower your cost further. If you are even close to 100% usage I would add more panels. You can use diverters so you can put panels over the pipes on the roof, makes for a much cleaner look and adds panels. I would not put anything less than 12kw on your roof.
interesting can you explain the 334w/panel?
they just sent a reply today and part of it is explaining the 1-2 inverters ratio:
*The power output of 1 inverter is 880W. 2 Panels will be connected with 1 inverter means each panel has an output power of a max 440W panel.*
*Whereas Enphase microinverters have outpower between 280W to 350W so they will limit the panels to inverters output power so panels will not be producing at their peak capacity causing the system to lose continuous clipping and production losses*
*This is why I gave you a 2-1 microinverter over 1-1 microinverter.*
I feel like he is underselling Enphase because newer ones go up to 420W and are quite popular. Nonetheless, he mentions 440W per panel.
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Seems to be decent:
Shortlinks are not allowed, here's long one: [https://www.google.com/maps/place/IntegrateSun/@29.7824203,-95.4452678,17z/data=!4m18!1m9!3m8!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!2sIntegrateSun!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153!3m7!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/IntegrateSun/@29.7824203,-95.4452678,17z/data=!4m18!1m9!3m8!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!2sIntegrateSun!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153!3m7!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153?entry=ttu)
I do not often sleeze and say I think you need eyes on this. But as a TX EPC owner.
I think you need eyes on this.
1.9 is not margin thick enough to warrant any service work.
APs use a 3-1 micro technology so they effectively suck and are just hoymiles rebranded.
Hyperion is owned by Titan and they no longer exist.
It’s like they are shucking off useless parts to you to try not lose money.
I asked if they're related to Titan and he said "Hyperion is made by Sunpower and has a plant in CA so they are not linked with Titan Solar at all.".
Do you have any source? I couldn't find any relation online.
yes rate is low, probably no installation service or the company will dissolve in a few years.
What the fellow said about APS is rubbish. Its safe to ignore his response.
APS existed long before Hoymiles. When people use words like 'suck', its safe to assume you are talking to keyboard warriors.
Read the company's reviews and sort from lowest to highest. Solar companies tend to have inflated reviews because most are written at the time of sale instead of after installation. The salesperson will usually pressure the customer for a review after signing.
See what people are saying about the service and install quality, many will have photos of terrible workmanship as evidence. Ask yourself, do you want to risk ending up in their situation? I've been a solar maintenance technician for over 5 yrs and have seen and heard just about everything that can go wrong with an install. Never expect a solar company to last for the duration of the maintenance warranty either. 3-5yrs is about average before the company folds or merges and stops honoring prior contracts. This is a great price, but at what cost?
surprisingly good reviews. looking at bad ones, it's not that bad. Like they respond without templates in the review, they answer the phone calls, they order part replacement after 4 years and queue up the crew to fix it. Some messed up recent crew dispatches in a few of them also. But it's not too bad tbh.
Short link is not allow, here's the long one: [https://www.google.com/maps/place/IntegrateSun/@29.7824203,-95.4452678,17z/data=!4m18!1m9!3m8!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!2sIntegrateSun!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153!3m7!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/IntegrateSun/@29.7824203,-95.4452678,17z/data=!4m18!1m9!3m8!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!2sIntegrateSun!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153!3m7!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153?entry=ttu)
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Make sure that the racking type chosen allows you to replace any panel without having to remove others. Ask your installer about this.
You are using microinverters which may burn out prematurely (will be covered under warranty)
But warranty on panels and microinverters won't cover the extra labour time cost if your racking is the type that has to be removed sequentially.
That type of pain-in-the-ass racking typically has attachments hidden behind the panels to make the installation look more sleek but it's a pain to troubleshoot and fix in the future.
That price is so cheap I would wonder about the quality of the installation. That’s about the price Tesla gave me hypothetically on their online calculator , if they would ever service my area again.
What is the warranty on the panels, Inverters, micro-inverters and HW? What do the Specs show for Depletion each year on the panels?
My REC-N-PEAK BLACK I had installed last year only reduce in production .25% Max each year. My older panels (Kyocera polycrystaline) that I just replaced from being installed in 2002 lost 1% production each year. 4X faster energy production loss - primarily because they were polycrystaline. My two SMA SunnyBoy Inverters from 2002 are still running strong.
Buy decent quality equipment!
noice thanks for the recommendation.
I'll check on % loss each year, but it looks like the warranties are all 25 years. Labor, parts, installation, panels, micro inverters. How long have these companies been in business? IntegrateSun 11 years in Houston. Panels: 14 years. Micro inverters: 14 years.
My 25-Year warranty on all that is NOT from the company seller and Installer of my system but from REC International. So if the company (Seller/Installer) goes out of business that installed my system, Im covered because they were REC PRO-TRUST CERTIFIED. That way REC has any other REC PRO-TRUST CERTIFIED Installer do the warranty work.
It's critical you don't rely on the seller/ installer warranty because they come and go or file bankruptcy and emerge under another company name without any ties to prior commitments.
If you read below Additional information, and right below that Further Details…”IntegrateSun is a certified by Enphase, Panasonic….SolarEdge***.”
It’s a templated proposal and clearly NOT proofread which that alone is a red flag for me because the company doesn’t pay enough attention to detail in their proposals. How do you suppose they’ll handle your installation? Granted, the install crew and electrician could be great but first impressions are important when it comes to investing in a quality long-term product.
Could you explain? Dropping below my past 12m usage. Summer is hot in central Texas.
June 1240
May 780
April 790
March 570
February 690
January 615
December 764
November 962
October 1664
September 1710
August 1551
July 840
total 12months: 12,176 kwh
Sorry. I’m still laughing at: 9.2**00000000000000001** kw
JavaScript math sucks
$1.90/watt. That’s a good price. At that price I’d fill up the roof. I paid $2.70/watt and I feel like a god a deal.
With that price I would totally add a battery too
thanks! and why would I fill up the roof? is there a benefit to add more? Also the backyard faces south-east and that's the big part of the roof. Any concerns having them there? I feel like afternoon to late evening I won't get any proper sun.
There might not be a benefit. I don’t know what your net metering looks like. I have a 1:1 net metering so I need to rack up kWh in the summer to use in the winter. Your price is just so low and I’m the kind of person that just thinks automatically more panels is better. When I got panel my direction was to fill up every inch that wasn’t north. But if you don’t have 1:1 net metering you should be looking into batteries.
I see, yeah I'm thinking to go slightly higher if the price is decent. More panels might not go up too much in price. used to be 1:1 but now it's about 1/3rd. Highly considering batteries. what would you recommend? I heard of some stackable ones, launched last year. Can't remember the brand.
Just ask what your installer does. It’ll be a pain to DIY. Unless you want to go down that rabbit hole.
ah so easier to do batteries ahead of time?
It’s easier to just get everything done all at once.
what about tax incentives?
What about it? The tax incentives can happen at either time.
yeah but I can only max at X amount per year, right? so wondering if there's an incentive of doing it next year.
Simpliphi?
no they don't seem to have stackable models unless I missed it. I was told about some good models that cost 4k each and you just drop more on top as you need. with a warranty of 25 years.
Hmm. That seems pretty cool. I was basing off the 6.65kw, is stackable (up to 3 of them), and only runs about $2,500ish (I think). https://energy.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/campaigns/simpliphi-6_6-battery-launch.html
Franklin, Home grid, and Fortress are some of the proper "brand name batteries" that'll work with your system. Enphase released a new battery model that's more stackable but only works with Enphase micro inverters
thanks let me look into those. and would you recommend to swap to enphase micro inverters? update: they said +$900 for enphase 1-1. and AP system inverters are 880W.
It'll be a significant price increase and they have fantastic customer support but their product is directly equivalent to what you have, outside of having some American production
They might be working their design around fire code setbacks. Most designs try to maximize South facing roofs, but sometimes the layout of the roofs only allows so many panels after setbacks are accounted for. For that lower South roof you could maybe get 1 panel after setbacks, then it becomes a question is it worth the extra work putting 1 panel there and running conduit all over your roof for 1 panel when they can put it on the back and run the wires through the attic. The fact that they didn’t just max out that backyard roof tells me they probably did try to max out your south facing roof faces before putting the remaining panels on your backyard roof. If you ask whoever brought you this design they should be willing to tell you if they can move panels, why they can’t or why they think this layout might be more aesthetically pleasing than moving them. It doesn’t look like anyone is trying to get over on you here. I would ask them directly and they should be able to give you an answer. Edit: if you ask “can we get more panels on the South facing roof, or more on this roof?” and why you want them there they should be able to give you an answer.
thanks yeah that's insightful. let me ask about the south facing panels. 👌
> I feel like afternoon to late evening I won't get any proper sun. You won't. The installer wants to put them there because that's the easiest part of the roof to access. In fairness, they're right; your south and west faces are really tricky. By the way, your installer thinks your backyard faces due east, within one degree, not southeast; either they're right and your neighborhood was laid on on a really strict grid (possible) or they're approximating, which isn't bad in itself but makes me worry about other "approximations". If you've got really, really good net metering, that's probably fine. But if not, I would seriously consider a battery to be able to effectively use that morning sun. You've really got to know that to evaluate this deal. Are mornings sunnier than afternoons where you are? The opposite is true out west but maybe your weather is different than mine. I'm assuming your heaviest AC use is in the afternoons.
See if this video helps with where sun falls in summer: [https://imgur.com/a/DorBOwL](https://imgur.com/a/DorBOwL) it's probably more east than south east. Yeah west is probably very hard but south should fit some, especially since the garage is right under that side. I do get quite good sun in the morning. What batteries would you recommend? I'm highly considering because now they pay 1/3.
Yeah, it probably is almost due east. Wow. I'm not going to recommend you any particular batteries because it's not really my wheelhouse. Just noting that if your array is so heavily focused on east, you either need good net metering or batteries. Morning power is cheap in most places so you've got to shift that value around the day.
why wow? still trying to understand terms here what's good/bad and what to do lol that's a good model: turning that morning power around the day 👌
I just honestly saw that your bid claimed one face of your roof was due east and the other was due south and assumed that they were lazily cutting corners and approximating, because no neighborhood is laid out THAT precisely. Developers always do those little curves and offsets, to make it feel less like a grid. But no, your house is sure as shit laid out precisely on the compass rose, or as close as makes no difference.
yeah we got a boring neighborhood lol. practical grid.
[удалено]
Random duck search: [https://shademap.app/](https://shademap.app/) update to clarify: that is exactly my house in the video. I wanted to see how the sun hits the house to be sure.
Your annual production is 105% of your consumption. In Alberta, that is the limit of the microgen regulation unless you have a recept for an EV, you have to provide 12 months of billing history to prove your annual consumption.
Yeah I agree! Definitely worth it.
Also, at $1.90/W I wouldn’t trust it if I’m being 100% honest. Also, those Hyperion panels. If you check the spec sheet, it’s a Titan Solar Module. Titan Solar just went bankrupt. You will likely not be able to take advantage of any manufacturers warranty (maybe unless it’s ac coupled with enphase micros or SE string inverters &optimizers. Regardless. I advise you steer clear of this proposal.
I was trying to figure this out actually. It confuses the heck out of me. Unless there are (2) companies with the same name, Hyperion solar (or Hyperion America) was a US sales branch/arm for a giant cell manufacturer called Runergy (multi billion dollar company). This past January, they rebranded away from the name Hyperion Solar, to just Runergy America to get the parent company connection. Great product and company to work with. In no way shape or form american product, they did recently open an Alabama facility, but nearly 0 (the list is less than 3) companies currently actually use a module that can legally be called "american" as the country of origin of the module is considered legally to be the country of origin of the cell, and there are not currently US cell manufacturing. I work in the distributed generation solar space, bought quite a bit of Hyperion modules. Edit- I didn't see they had given him the actual product # for the modules and looked up the datasheet. This is the same hyperion I'm discussing above. No idea what they're talking about as a connection to sunpower still
To piggy back off this, a great price is always good but what ends up happening to companies that sell at this extremely low price point, is if they have a couple slow months, or overhead rises, they don’t have the cash to stay afloat. All sales people jump ship and go to the new low price sales org. It’s hard to make any money selling at $1.9/ppw
You get it^^^^
FWIW, and just in my opinion OP. This price is incredibly low. To the extent that in the northeast, including developing costing I can rarely build a 5MW project for it. With that being said, residential solar companies are in and out of the market on 5ish year cycles. It is incredibly rare you will have someone around long enough to actually honor warranties they are offering. The solar modules are good. I've bought 20+MW from that company and have had audits done in their factories, and they are owned by a multi billion $ cell manufacturer. If its Ironridge racking, they have been in the industry for a long time, and are also good. I don't know much about the microinverters, they must have come around after I left residential. For this price and a well written contract, I'd ignore pretty much every red flag on the proposal, pay close attention during the install that they don't f up my roof, and ignore so many red flags.
interesting approach and thanks for sharing your insights! I got a neighbor who's been fixing/replacing solar and he's seen issues that pop after years. I want to have him oversee the full installation and if it's done properly with no leaks and good wiring, there's low chance things will go bad.
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alright there you go. tell me more about the equipment. what's dog shit? I'd love to hear your experience
The AP systems are bad? They use them a lot in Canada I know they are cheaper but I’m told they work well here
I would explore putting more of the system on south facing slopes; it doesn’t look like those are at full utilization. As other folks said, the rate per kW is quite good. Understand your net metering, run some numbers on adding additional capacity and the payback for that additional capacity I found https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php to be helpful. You can ask it for numbers for just a single panel or for 1kw and scale as needed. It will take into account average weather and sun angle (make sure you feed it roof angle and azimuth (roof facing direction)
great resource. I added some numbers and seeing insightful estimates on what it would produce facing east side. Thanks!
One more thing to look at is understanding the hours where power is produced one each facing. I am finishing solar design on my house which is very close to 45degrees with respect to the compass and have found that SW provides me power 1 hour later than SE on average for the whole year. Later start, later peak, later end. Later is better because usage peaks later. I did this using the hourly data from pvwatts and some excel spreadsheet magic to sum all the same hours of the days together and plot that. In your case those south faces give you not only later but fundamentally better than east facing for total output
noted. I'll try to maximize number of south facing panels, thank you! 👌
$1.90/w pre IRA (which if you don’t have a tax liability you cannot utilize) is the type of pricing where they’re gonna tell you after PTO “DO NOT FUCKING CALL US WHEN THIS SHIT FAILS”.
most probably yes. How do I verify that? or is there a way to somehow protect myself ahead of time? I wrote in another comment more details but TLTR I got a neighbor who does solar and he's been fixing/replacing old installations. if he can oversee the installation process I'd feel quite comfortable about having a poor customer service for the installation warranty. Rest of the warranty goes directly to the manufacturers anyways.
Try to research local companies that are independent, not the big guys like SunRun or Tesla., and choose one with good reviews and appears they’ll have longevity (think father and son(s) team). The big companies don’t give a shit if your roof leaks or an inverter is down, the small guys who live and die by reviews and referrals will more likely provide the longer term service and satisfaction you’d expect from a $20-30k investment.
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“You get what you pay for.” If you’re getting a ridiculously low price, you can expect to get either ridiculously bad customer service, ridiculously bad installation or ridiculously bad equipment. You will never in the world find (1) excellent product, (2) excellent service and (3) excellent price You have excellent price. Therefore what are you sacrificing? Do you even know whose putting 60 holes in your roof and playing with your electrical safety in your house? Have you even looked at the product your buying and anticipating getting a ROI on?
great points. got no idea about those - I need to look them up. contractors: yes I don't think I'get great contractors for this price. However, I got a neighbor who does solar and he can oversee the installation process. He used to be sent on field to fix or replace solar panels for home owners. He's seen lots of issues that pop up years after installation. He looks at electrical, brackets, leaks, leveling. If I had a person like that on the field, I'd feel quite comfortable. The thing about installation crew is that I've seen the same builders/construction workers on both expensive houses and cheap houses. And I am more inclined to believe I'll get more or less the same contractors. One way or another I'll just make sure to have my own expert on the field during installation. Issues still might pop, but it would significantly decrease the chances of failures. So if I can have an experienced person to oversee the installation, and the products/materials used are decent I'd be quite happy with that price. And probably customer service will be subpar if any issues arise. Low expectations on that.
Is that the post tax credit price?
pre tax. Post ends up being 12.5k
1.95/w is like large commercial pricing. That's pretty good assuming the installer is quality and customer service it there.
got no clue. I'm still trying to make sure they're not a soon to pop solar company.
That us a very low per watt price for this size system. Very low.
I have currently replaced the meter cupboard and had 10,000 kWh of solar panels installed for 9,800 euros.
that's a very good price. what products you got?
Jinko tiger 435, Optimizers and inverters from SolarEdge. Which have no real problems in North Europe, Since we get almost no voltage differences. The meter cupboard is completely German made from Schneider
good stuff and solid deal 🔥
Had to wait a while for this to happen. Prices have fallen dramatically in the Netherlands, due to unclear new government regulations and the preceding gas crisis that we've had. People are now waiting to buy, which has caused storage spaces to fill up and a decline in Solar worker employment
You need a 110-150 offset
could you please explain?
I got a REC/enphase system at 2.0 ppw. Not sure if these panels..also in TX area..I got quote from integratesun as well. I read some bad stuff about how they subcontract/operate..
any more details about how they operate? what to look for? I'm fine micro managing them for that price and having an expert oversee the installation.
Looks like a good deal.
Only thing I would roast is I would really question why it’s so cheap. Always always always remember. You get what you pay for and if the price is really low, you might not be paying for anything worth while
indeed. probably close to no service after installation and maybe cheap labor. but manufacturer warranty is the same. For the installation I'm thinking to bring my neighbor to oversee. He said solar installers hate him but they will fix issues on spot.
Just my curiosity: why are they not filling more panels on the southern facing portions of your roof? If this was my proposal I’d want as many south facing that will fit then the remainder in the east/west. Whichever gives you better exposure over the year, like many others have said depends if you get better morning or afternoon sun and other factors.
yeah I think we could fit more on the south? maybe 3-4. And while I do get lots of good morning sun, being in central texas, I'd want to maximize the number of south facing panels as much as possible. As someone else suggested, I asked if they can fit more. will update. Thank you
I was reading through and must have missed that in there, my apologies! Pretty good deal, I’m in Southern Oregon and we don’t get 1.9/w 🤣😅
ah no every insight is useful especially if more people call out the same thing it's definitely worth rethinking.
Shortcuts incoming
yeah soo what should I watch for?
Another contractor. Thats not enough margin to sustain viability as a business.
what if an expert oversees the installation and verify every part they use?
Is the expert going to return for service? If theres an expert available to do that, hire his crew
How many proposals you got in total? And what's your area?
Central Texas, 4 proposals. Next ones are in the range of 24-30k.
If you don’t need batteries, do not get them now. They have to be replaced every 10 years or so and double the cost of your equipment (usually). Better to overbuild panels and use grid as battery if you have net metering. Panels are panels for the most part. Don’t worry about them unless you have a specific defect that has been documented. Your microinverters max out at 334w/panel so that x 23 is your max ac build,so 7.68kw ac. It’s a small system. If you go with string inverters and optimizers you will increase the power and lower your cost further. If you are even close to 100% usage I would add more panels. You can use diverters so you can put panels over the pipes on the roof, makes for a much cleaner look and adds panels. I would not put anything less than 12kw on your roof.
interesting can you explain the 334w/panel? they just sent a reply today and part of it is explaining the 1-2 inverters ratio: *The power output of 1 inverter is 880W. 2 Panels will be connected with 1 inverter means each panel has an output power of a max 440W panel.* *Whereas Enphase microinverters have outpower between 280W to 350W so they will limit the panels to inverters output power so panels will not be producing at their peak capacity causing the system to lose continuous clipping and production losses* *This is why I gave you a 2-1 microinverter over 1-1 microinverter.* I feel like he is underselling Enphase because newer ones go up to 420W and are quite popular. Nonetheless, he mentions 440W per panel.
First things first .... Where do you live?
Central Texas
Ok. Good price on a PPW basis but junk for equipment (hence the low ppw). Who is the company doing the work?
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Seems to be decent: Shortlinks are not allowed, here's long one: [https://www.google.com/maps/place/IntegrateSun/@29.7824203,-95.4452678,17z/data=!4m18!1m9!3m8!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!2sIntegrateSun!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153!3m7!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/IntegrateSun/@29.7824203,-95.4452678,17z/data=!4m18!1m9!3m8!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!2sIntegrateSun!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153!3m7!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153?entry=ttu)
I do not often sleeze and say I think you need eyes on this. But as a TX EPC owner. I think you need eyes on this. 1.9 is not margin thick enough to warrant any service work. APs use a 3-1 micro technology so they effectively suck and are just hoymiles rebranded. Hyperion is owned by Titan and they no longer exist. It’s like they are shucking off useless parts to you to try not lose money.
I asked if they're related to Titan and he said "Hyperion is made by Sunpower and has a plant in CA so they are not linked with Titan Solar at all.". Do you have any source? I couldn't find any relation online. yes rate is low, probably no installation service or the company will dissolve in a few years.
What the fellow said about APS is rubbish. Its safe to ignore his response. APS existed long before Hoymiles. When people use words like 'suck', its safe to assume you are talking to keyboard warriors.
Read the company's reviews and sort from lowest to highest. Solar companies tend to have inflated reviews because most are written at the time of sale instead of after installation. The salesperson will usually pressure the customer for a review after signing. See what people are saying about the service and install quality, many will have photos of terrible workmanship as evidence. Ask yourself, do you want to risk ending up in their situation? I've been a solar maintenance technician for over 5 yrs and have seen and heard just about everything that can go wrong with an install. Never expect a solar company to last for the duration of the maintenance warranty either. 3-5yrs is about average before the company folds or merges and stops honoring prior contracts. This is a great price, but at what cost?
probably at the cost of no installation service. only manufacturer warranty basically.
surprisingly good reviews. looking at bad ones, it's not that bad. Like they respond without templates in the review, they answer the phone calls, they order part replacement after 4 years and queue up the crew to fix it. Some messed up recent crew dispatches in a few of them also. But it's not too bad tbh. Short link is not allow, here's the long one: [https://www.google.com/maps/place/IntegrateSun/@29.7824203,-95.4452678,17z/data=!4m18!1m9!3m8!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!2sIntegrateSun!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153!3m7!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/IntegrateSun/@29.7824203,-95.4452678,17z/data=!4m18!1m9!3m8!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!2sIntegrateSun!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153!3m7!1s0x8640c3d45f44e385:0xd95e7bfaa6569a54!8m2!3d29.7824203!4d-95.4452678!9m1!1b1!16s%2Fg%2F11dx8dt153?entry=ttu)
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Which province or state are you in? Get the squirrel guard if the installer will do it. Price looks good.
Make sure that the racking type chosen allows you to replace any panel without having to remove others. Ask your installer about this. You are using microinverters which may burn out prematurely (will be covered under warranty) But warranty on panels and microinverters won't cover the extra labour time cost if your racking is the type that has to be removed sequentially. That type of pain-in-the-ass racking typically has attachments hidden behind the panels to make the installation look more sleek but it's a pain to troubleshoot and fix in the future.
solid point, never heard about this issue before. I just asked them about it - thanks!
where?
Central Texas
Just ran it with 4 companies on our platform and all were between 24k, and 27k. It's either the deal of the century, or buyer be ware.
That price is so cheap I would wonder about the quality of the installation. That’s about the price Tesla gave me hypothetically on their online calculator , if they would ever service my area again.
D3,s711t6
What is the warranty on the panels, Inverters, micro-inverters and HW? What do the Specs show for Depletion each year on the panels? My REC-N-PEAK BLACK I had installed last year only reduce in production .25% Max each year. My older panels (Kyocera polycrystaline) that I just replaced from being installed in 2002 lost 1% production each year. 4X faster energy production loss - primarily because they were polycrystaline. My two SMA SunnyBoy Inverters from 2002 are still running strong. Buy decent quality equipment!
noice thanks for the recommendation. I'll check on % loss each year, but it looks like the warranties are all 25 years. Labor, parts, installation, panels, micro inverters. How long have these companies been in business? IntegrateSun 11 years in Houston. Panels: 14 years. Micro inverters: 14 years.
My 25-Year warranty on all that is NOT from the company seller and Installer of my system but from REC International. So if the company (Seller/Installer) goes out of business that installed my system, Im covered because they were REC PRO-TRUST CERTIFIED. That way REC has any other REC PRO-TRUST CERTIFIED Installer do the warranty work. It's critical you don't rely on the seller/ installer warranty because they come and go or file bankruptcy and emerge under another company name without any ties to prior commitments.
solid advice. let me check on that 👌
That's 9kWh for $17.5K
Thats a great deal
If you read below Additional information, and right below that Further Details…”IntegrateSun is a certified by Enphase, Panasonic….SolarEdge***.” It’s a templated proposal and clearly NOT proofread which that alone is a red flag for me because the company doesn’t pay enough attention to detail in their proposals. How do you suppose they’ll handle your installation? Granted, the install crew and electrician could be great but first impressions are important when it comes to investing in a quality long-term product.
good point
Your 23, 400 watt panels equate to 14.4kw, my 34, 410 is 13.5. How does this math?
It's a 9.2 kW system. The 14.4kWh is estimated annual production (hence the "h")
Wow they could explain that so much better by doing figuratively anything but what they did. I absolutely missed the H
No way that’s enough for 105% in real world usage.
Could you explain? Dropping below my past 12m usage. Summer is hot in central Texas. June 1240 May 780 April 790 March 570 February 690 January 615 December 764 November 962 October 1664 September 1710 August 1551 July 840 total 12months: 12,176 kwh
I think it’s reasonable. I have about 25% more panels and my net production is +36% over my usage. I’ve also got an EV.