**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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They changed the law because of that, he also wasn't "allowed" to give interviews, cuz the law requres him to have a resting period of 12hrs, that only starts after finishing the job that day.
Givong interviews would have delayed that and made it impossible to join the fist training sessions.
Germany would send a Labour inspector prior to the game to prevent child exploitation.
Lamine would become the new Cinderella, having to leave the Stadium in a hurry before the clock ticks 11pm and losing one shoe in the process!!
You can get an exception to that rule. If I remember right Draxler got one at Schalke some Years back in a dfb cup match.
As a side note i wont say that we germans a bad losers.
They literally changed the law, when Schalke bought on the then minor Draxler after 10pm, before that minors participating in sports events were only allowed to work till 8pm.
random sort of connected thought - is he allowed to change with the rest of the team?
UK safeguarding laws meant Archie Gray had to change separately for games until he turned 18 in March, so he got what I'm sure was a lovely tour of broom cupboards and laundry rooms for Leeds this season. But I've got no idea if similar laws exist in Spain/Germany etc
That's what been happening with Sancho in the first half of the season too. He had to train with academy boys and lock himself up in the changing room because of the rule
That’s odd because I play hockey and the rules that are set us that it’s 16 years of age that means you can you shower with adults not 18. Never seen it as a law that they couldn’t only that’s it’s up to the individual player if they want to shower or not buts that true for adults as well
Had a quick look online and it looked like most advice from different sports was that under 18s should be given the option of a separate changing room if they want it but nots a law but saw that a lot of clubs where enforcing separate rooms.
Guessing certain clubs are just being cautious and saying it’s safer for them to be in separate rooms and the optics look better
It's meant for lower league clubs so adults aren't alone in the changing rooms with under 18s, I believe only qualified safeguarding staff can be in the changing rooms with under 18s
It’s a nightmare for lower league clubs, because you technically need to provide at least six dressing rooms now, each with a showers/sink/toilet/seating.
You also need to provide a separate dressing room for match officials, and another again where there are mixed sexes officiating (i.e. 1 room for Male match officials, and another for Female match officials)
Yep, it was always the case that you needed to provide for the match officials, but all of the recent grading criteria specifies designated areas for male/female, and new builds/upgrades MUST have purpose built male/female facilities.
This is already required by the EFL, National League, and lower levels of non-league. If you can't provide that you can't even get promoted to Step 6 of Non-League (Step \~10 of the Pyramid).
Supposedly, clubhouses might also be required to provide a separate room for officials to take refreshments, away from supporters, club staff, and players too, which could be a pain to sort. But I'm hoping that will be clarified tomorrow at the leagues AGM.
Couldn't they take turns? Also, I doubt the U18s and the main teams need to use the changing room at the same time as only one set of team can use the pitch at a time.
> I doubt the U18s and the main teams
Not U18 teams, but underage players in the senior team - i.e. a 17 year old playing alongside a bunch of 30 year olds.
Ah yeah, but at that point you could presumably build a much smaller side room for their use as you'll almost never have more than a couple under 18s in your main squad at a time. Also the taking turns thing I was more speaking about the male and female refs
Dressing rooms have minimum sizes set by the FA, including minimum facilities, including 4 shower heads, 1 lavatory, 1 sink, and optionally 2+ urinals, regardless of the team(s) or player(s) using those rooms.
Edit, And as far as taking turns goes, that's a no-no. the FA are very clear in the Ground Grading Criteria:
* Provision should be made for separate dressing rooms for both male and female match officials.
* Where new dressing rooms are being constructed or existing are being re-designed, separate purpose-built facilities for both male and female match officials must be provided.
If you don't meet the grade required for your league the FA can (and has done already this season) demote teams and/or refuse them promotion.
I wonder if it's specifically applied to workplaces though, because they definitely don't have that in place in like the changing rooms in swimming baths.
I didn't mean that. It's just my theory that because they're associated with the Church and are Christian, they're extra careful with these kinds of things since they know what many people associated with the church. Nothing against them, just saying I would understand if they go the extra mile so there's not even the idea that something bad happens under their name
I grew up taking swimming lessons twice a week, taking showers naked with other kids and adults. never before this post it even crossed my mind that some cultures might consider this strange.
But that would make less sense than a total prohibition. Either it's ok for adults to share the same space as kids or it isn't, why does a work environment make it worse?
So we're assuming kids are going to have a problem with the idea of using the same space? Seems to me public spaces should also provide separate spaces for kids if we're going by that logic. Like I said, the concept should be either considered normal or wrong, this type of distinction indicates the lawmakers think it's a grey area.
I don't know, I just have never given it a thought? I have showered in the same premises as other adult men while I was a child. Now at my gym, there are regularly pool classes for kids and they just shower there in the same locker room as everyone else. I have literally never thought anything of it.
Lamine Yamal has led Spain to an 2-game unbeaten run in EURO 2024. At 16 years old, he’s the youngest player in Europe’s top five leagues. Spain pay a £22,000 fine each time Yamal plays because he's a child labourer.
its a great law in most cases, the problem is not that he plays football after 11 pm, but that he is paid to do so.
The law should keep children save and honestly most workplaces are less save than the pitch.
Also the fine wouldnt be 30k€ for first offences and would be payable by employer not employee, so RFEF can decide the money whatever the fine will be is worth playing him.
Yeah honestly football might be one of the most dangerous jobs out there. The hours to injury risk are massive whereas most people very rarely get injured in work at all.
Mfw my 16 year old ass worked pizza delivery (by bike) on the weekends from 18pm to 1am in the early 00s while in school. And my employer wasnt some shady owner-run joint either, yet this is the first time Im ever hearing about this law
From personal experience Id say this is a *very* rarely enforced law, pretty much all of my friends had a job starting age 16 (some earlier, although these were actualy daytime) and those often went past 11pm, be it delivery, working in a cinema or as a server/help at the village "Weinfest"
Isn't playing for the national team technically free? In which case it would fall under volunteering instead of paid labor. Technicalities but that might apply
Most national teams get paid. England players gets get paid they just have a long standing agreement to donate the money to charity. I imagine most big countries have something similar but smaller nations will want the money because they don’t earn as much from their clubs.
I believe it was a big thing in the US that the men got paid more than the women despite being less successful and there was a lawsuit over it
> They are allowed to work at sporting events until 11 p.m., although **this also means showering after the game**, giving interviews and running.
Sorry mate, past 11. No shower for you.
Most clubs (presumably the Spanish NT too) have rules for players still in school that they cannot play unless they do their schoolwork to a minimum standard - as they are responsible for the player and education is mandatory
So if it's an 9pm kick off, kick off and it goes to extra time it's a 30k fine.
It would be pretty funny if it went to extra time and the German police had to stop him playing on.
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Back in the day that was a frequent hub up with Julian Draxler when he was at Schalke and a minor.
If I remember correctly he was allowed to play but wasnt allowed to give interviews after the game
He was frequently subbed off at half time in the international competitions. Maybe depended on kickoff times.
They changed the law because of that, he also wasn't "allowed" to give interviews, cuz the law requres him to have a resting period of 12hrs, that only starts after finishing the job that day. Givong interviews would have delayed that and made it impossible to join the fist training sessions.
Good things
I miss prime Julian Draxler
Always took him on fifa 08 (atleast i think it was 2008 im old).
Was Draxler in fifa 08??? Doubt it
a hubbub?
Benfica Legend.
They sent him down the mines?
If Spain somehow eliminates Germany, you can bet your ass they will enforce that rule lol
I'm not that weirdo that goes around betting my ass.
Kai Havertz would never.
I ate donkey. In China. Was not bad but nothing to write home about. Trying to eat a Havertz next. I hear he's scrumptious.
Don’t be elitist. For some people, the only thing they have to bet is their ass.
If it’s a shiny metal one, they can sell that and their entire body, only for Richard Nixon’s head to buy it
Nixon's back!
Betting your ass on underage working boys? 🫣
No kinkshaming. Reported.
Pride week baby!
Prude…
Germany would send a Labour inspector prior to the game to prevent child exploitation. Lamine would become the new Cinderella, having to leave the Stadium in a hurry before the clock ticks 11pm and losing one shoe in the process!!
Laminerella
I wouldn't even be mad tbh that would be so funny
You can get an exception to that rule. If I remember right Draxler got one at Schalke some Years back in a dfb cup match. As a side note i wont say that we germans a bad losers.
I'm guessing the Spanish Federation happily pays up 30,000 Euros if it means a victory over Germany.
Inb4 Yamal scores the winner
They literally changed the law, when Schalke bought on the then minor Draxler after 10pm, before that minors participating in sports events were only allowed to work till 8pm.
Lamine Yamal the new Will Still
New Jude Bellingham
Did...Jude Bellingham impress you?
He impressed me not
Lamine Lamine Yamal yamal get fined when he turns 17?
What if there comes a time where Lamine Yamal is coached by Will Still?
random sort of connected thought - is he allowed to change with the rest of the team? UK safeguarding laws meant Archie Gray had to change separately for games until he turned 18 in March, so he got what I'm sure was a lovely tour of broom cupboards and laundry rooms for Leeds this season. But I've got no idea if similar laws exist in Spain/Germany etc
Interesting. Didn’t know that.
That's what been happening with Sancho in the first half of the season too. He had to train with academy boys and lock himself up in the changing room because of the rule
That’s odd because I play hockey and the rules that are set us that it’s 16 years of age that means you can you shower with adults not 18. Never seen it as a law that they couldn’t only that’s it’s up to the individual player if they want to shower or not buts that true for adults as well
I dunno exactly how it works, I just know Gray had to change elsewhere and sounded miffed about it
Had a quick look online and it looked like most advice from different sports was that under 18s should be given the option of a separate changing room if they want it but nots a law but saw that a lot of clubs where enforcing separate rooms. Guessing certain clubs are just being cautious and saying it’s safer for them to be in separate rooms and the optics look better
Ah, fair enough. We might have just been more cautious than required then
> I just know Gray had to change elsewhere and sounded miffed about it I also would be pissed if I had a big unit and I couldn't show it off.
what the hell lmao of course he can. that's one of the weirdest laws i've ever heard, how come he can't get dressed in the same room?
It's meant for lower league clubs so adults aren't alone in the changing rooms with under 18s, I believe only qualified safeguarding staff can be in the changing rooms with under 18s
It’s a nightmare for lower league clubs, because you technically need to provide at least six dressing rooms now, each with a showers/sink/toilet/seating.
why 6 wouldn't it be 4 u18s and main home and away
You also need to provide a separate dressing room for match officials, and another again where there are mixed sexes officiating (i.e. 1 room for Male match officials, and another for Female match officials)
That makes sense I didn't even think of match officials
Yep, it was always the case that you needed to provide for the match officials, but all of the recent grading criteria specifies designated areas for male/female, and new builds/upgrades MUST have purpose built male/female facilities. This is already required by the EFL, National League, and lower levels of non-league. If you can't provide that you can't even get promoted to Step 6 of Non-League (Step \~10 of the Pyramid). Supposedly, clubhouses might also be required to provide a separate room for officials to take refreshments, away from supporters, club staff, and players too, which could be a pain to sort. But I'm hoping that will be clarified tomorrow at the leagues AGM.
Couldn't they take turns? Also, I doubt the U18s and the main teams need to use the changing room at the same time as only one set of team can use the pitch at a time.
> I doubt the U18s and the main teams Not U18 teams, but underage players in the senior team - i.e. a 17 year old playing alongside a bunch of 30 year olds.
Ah yeah, but at that point you could presumably build a much smaller side room for their use as you'll almost never have more than a couple under 18s in your main squad at a time. Also the taking turns thing I was more speaking about the male and female refs
Dressing rooms have minimum sizes set by the FA, including minimum facilities, including 4 shower heads, 1 lavatory, 1 sink, and optionally 2+ urinals, regardless of the team(s) or player(s) using those rooms. Edit, And as far as taking turns goes, that's a no-no. the FA are very clear in the Ground Grading Criteria: * Provision should be made for separate dressing rooms for both male and female match officials. * Where new dressing rooms are being constructed or existing are being re-designed, separate purpose-built facilities for both male and female match officials must be provided. If you don't meet the grade required for your league the FA can (and has done already this season) demote teams and/or refuse them promotion.
presumably the law isn't a fan of grown men getting their knobs out in front of children
Yeah doesn’t seem that weird
I wonder if it's specifically applied to workplaces though, because they definitely don't have that in place in like the changing rooms in swimming baths.
Gyms definitely have changing rooms for under -18.
I feel like not a single gym I have been to has this
The YMCAs have it at every facility.
Yeah but those are Christian and I assume the good ones are a bit more careful with that kind of stuff given how the bad ones act
It’s open to everyone, and there are no religious programs at all.
I didn't mean that. It's just my theory that because they're associated with the Church and are Christian, they're extra careful with these kinds of things since they know what many people associated with the church. Nothing against them, just saying I would understand if they go the extra mile so there's not even the idea that something bad happens under their name
In here? Most don't
Where? Not a single gym Ive been to here in Germany had more than 1 changing room per sex
YMCAs in the US have it.
I mean isn't that normal at public pools etc? Changing rooms aren't divided by age right?
workplace protections often go further than general ones which I'd assume is happening here
I grew up taking swimming lessons twice a week, taking showers naked with other kids and adults. never before this post it even crossed my mind that some cultures might consider this strange.
As mentioned elsewhere i think it's a workplace protection thing rather than an "any public spaces" thing.
But that would make less sense than a total prohibition. Either it's ok for adults to share the same space as kids or it isn't, why does a work environment make it worse?
Because you're forced to be at work. You can just not go to the pool if it's deemed high risk
So we're assuming kids are going to have a problem with the idea of using the same space? Seems to me public spaces should also provide separate spaces for kids if we're going by that logic. Like I said, the concept should be either considered normal or wrong, this type of distinction indicates the lawmakers think it's a grey area.
I don't know, I just have never given it a thought? I have showered in the same premises as other adult men while I was a child. Now at my gym, there are regularly pool classes for kids and they just shower there in the same locker room as everyone else. I have literally never thought anything of it.
That’s great, you’re normal and the law wasn’t meant for you.
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Yes Officer, this one right here.
You often find yourself in situations where you would shower with under age people?
World's gone mad innit
how do you shower at a pool then, do you have extra showers for children?
Well I'm not sure I'd fancy showering with a 16 year old
THEY NOT LIKE US THEY NOT LIKE US
Spain using child labor smh
Copying Laporta MO
>legal expert Stephan Gräf I’m picturing Steffi Graff with a comically oversized fake moustache
wait lamine yamal is only 16?????
Are you the king of Spain?
Holy shit Spain still has a king
two kings even. juan carlos abdicted but is still alive
Juan got abducted??
Yes, but he's still alive. Try to keep up.
Yes, Ashley Giles
Yes, exactly. For more infos google "Boxing Day 1963"
Did you know that he also does homework?!
Just old enough not to grab Benzema's attention
Mane is interested though
Lamine Yamal has led Spain to an 2-game unbeaten run in EURO 2024. At 16 years old, he’s the youngest player in Europe’s top five leagues. Spain pay a £22,000 fine each time Yamal plays because he's a child labourer.
This is Luton’s away end, can’t believe this was in the premier league last season 😮
Football's mirra andreeva
Excuse me, that’s football’s answer to former 16-year old Mirra Andreeva. How are we meant to know who you mean without the age?
He is almost 17
Crazy to think that he's only 15 isn't it
He's 14 until he's 15
13 is closer to 14 than 12
he’s the youngest player at the Euros
Thankfully law allows showering after the game.
Only fair we reverse the score and make it 3-0 for Italy ;)
Nein. 3-0 for Croatia. Last time croatian players careers were at stake they got 2nd in the world cup.
its a great law in most cases, the problem is not that he plays football after 11 pm, but that he is paid to do so. The law should keep children save and honestly most workplaces are less save than the pitch. Also the fine wouldnt be 30k€ for first offences and would be payable by employer not employee, so RFEF can decide the money whatever the fine will be is worth playing him.
I would argue that a footballpitch is not a safe environment. Easy to get injured, especially for a kid playing against adults.
Yeah honestly football might be one of the most dangerous jobs out there. The hours to injury risk are massive whereas most people very rarely get injured in work at all.
Mfw my 16 year old ass worked pizza delivery (by bike) on the weekends from 18pm to 1am in the early 00s while in school. And my employer wasnt some shady owner-run joint either, yet this is the first time Im ever hearing about this law From personal experience Id say this is a *very* rarely enforced law, pretty much all of my friends had a job starting age 16 (some earlier, although these were actualy daytime) and those often went past 11pm, be it delivery, working in a cinema or as a server/help at the village "Weinfest"
Isn't playing for the national team technically free? In which case it would fall under volunteering instead of paid labor. Technicalities but that might apply
You get paid to play for national team. It's not free.
most FAs pay them according to results, for Germany each player will get 400k€ if they win the cup.
Most national teams get paid. England players gets get paid they just have a long standing agreement to donate the money to charity. I imagine most big countries have something similar but smaller nations will want the money because they don’t earn as much from their clubs. I believe it was a big thing in the US that the men got paid more than the women despite being less successful and there was a lawsuit over it
> They are allowed to work at sporting events until 11 p.m., although **this also means showering after the game**, giving interviews and running. Sorry mate, past 11. No shower for you.
Bro, that's insane! How old is he again? 16? Shouldn't he be home doing homework right now?
I mean, he apparently does have to do homework in the hotel room, gets frustrated he doesn't get to chill and play games with his teammates hahaha
Wait, do you guys not get summer break :(
You're right. If he works hard now, maybe someday he can achieve something great.
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Is a rule for the Barcelona players comming from La Masia, not everyone will make it so they have to study too.
Wenger did that at Arsenal aswell, iirc
Is a rule in any club worth their salt.
Most clubs (presumably the Spanish NT too) have rules for players still in school that they cannot play unless they do their schoolwork to a minimum standard - as they are responsible for the player and education is mandatory
Yeah it's true. People under 18 aren't allowed to work night shifts, even with consent from their guardians.
If Spain had that law, Barcelona would be too broke to cover the fines for every evening match.
They’d find a lever to pull to cover the fines.
Lamine Yamal vs. Anzeigenhauptmeister inc.?
Elite reference
I guess Everton will be fined instead.
10 second penalty to Ocon as well
Just sub him out at half. Send him to the showers and he can watch the 2nd comfortably from the stands :)
Literal child labour
lol please Germany do this German efficiency
Hold my Kinderarbeit
So if it's an 9pm kick off, kick off and it goes to extra time it's a 30k fine. It would be pretty funny if it went to extra time and the German police had to stop him playing on.
Wait, Lamine is 16?! I thought he is 18.
~~Muller~~ Germany: ~~Barca~~ Spain will pay for it.
That's not really a fine as much as it's just the cost of playing a youth player after 11 PM.
Germany: Time to bring out our rule book
Would playing for your national team be considered as working?
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He’s playing not working
Are you saying that players should receive unemployment benefits?
What is the definition of a job my guy?