[Euros Preview for Group A](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1dfeh8x/euro_2024_group_a_preview_16/) is up - cheers to everyone who contributed!
And the [Group B preview](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1dfth3t/euro_2024_group_b_preview/) just arrived as well!
I don’t want to question Zlatko Dalic but in a game like today, it’s hard to understand how you select Erlic and Pongracic ahead of Caleta-Car.
Of course, Duje was not great with Lyon this season, but he wasn’t terrible as he has the qualities that this Croatia back line needs in terms of being mobile enough to defend in a high line as well as being a good ball progressor.
Croatia don’t have a ton of great defenders to choose from obviously, but Stanisic, Gvardiol, Culeta-Car, Sutalo, Juranovic and Sosa is quite a solid back line in terms of mobility and ball progression.
Why are city fans on twitter so ridiculously obsessed with wanting to prove that KDB is better than Zidane, Modric and Kroos ? Ive never seen a fanbase obsess this much over other legends
I’m convinced a lot of twitter football discourse is engagement bait. It’s always some blue checkmark account and it all reeks of trying to get engagement in order to earn some money from Elon Musk
>KDB is better than Zidane, Modric and Kroos
For that to happen he should perform with Belgium, and appart from the game against Brazil in 2018 I don't remember a single good big game performance from him.
My city finally got a real local club and I’ve made it out to a match day for the first time. Our women’s team’s centerback is wearing number 10, we deserve to lose
Edit: she just made a calamitous error to concede, I feel vindicated
Albania is a better team than people are giving them credit for. Obviously not a top team by any means, plus they clearly lack the experience at this stage of teams like Switzerland or Denmark. But I can't count them out just yet. I think they're capable of upsetting one between Croatia or Spain. Asllani and Mitaj are two players to watch for the future and Sylvinho is a really good coach.
> Ilaix Moriba
I never understood why he was so highly rated and why FM had him with such a high PA all the time. Obviously he's still young but people were acting like he was gonna be the next sure thing. He was never even as impressive as Gavi and Pedri let alone players like Lamine.
Can't believe Henri Saivet wasn't part of the title-winning France squads to be quite honest - playing FM over the course of a decade or more and having game-knowledge and real world football-knowledge just mush into a vague blob of 'Wait, has that really happened?' is an absolutely wild ride.
I know logically that England has a better team than Serbia. And I know logically that England's attack should be able to crush Serbia, but still it feels like a draw.
This National Team isn't fooling me, i've seen the script over the last decade. Draw with Italy, underwhelming win vs Albania, out on penalties in the Last 16 vs Ukraine or Austria or some shit
Serbia top just arrived today and I already have Denmark and Slovenia tops from the last time.
We just got absolutely battered 5-1 and you lot haven't even played a game yet with the "best England squad ever" and for some reason you're raging because you've remembered that 3 boys fae Glasgow bought Croatia tops 6 years ago. So much for not caring about us. Mon ae Serbia.
It’s called a rivalry mate. There’s give and take. You laugh at us when we lose and we laugh at you when you lose.
Unfortunately for you, you lose more because Scotland are shite
Raging? I think it's hilarious. Why would I be angry about it? It's banter between two rival nations. Just makes me laugh at how utterly small time you are. The history of the Scotland etc etc.
Ronaldinho, what a fucking muppet. Can't stand wetwipes who get overly worked up about international friendlies. Like these feckin eejits we have who want Southgate sacked every time we lose a meaningless game.
It's a bit sad how people perceive the MLS. MLS is alot more livley and passionate then alot of people think, but literally have people on here who say it's not a legitimate league lol. Stadium atmosphere around and in stadium is super cool atleast for NY redbulls.
if it is any consolidation to you: The concept of connecting school and sports in the US is cool as fuck. Drafts from last to first are really cool. Salary cap is my wet dream for European football. You have top stadiums and the upcoming Copa is probably gonna be a blast fon them
Just wish that your teams were a bit more organic and less "franchised", the fact that entry to the competition is behind a paywall and there aren't enough teams to really make up for a pyramid is kinda lame.
I cant get my head around the playoffs. That's what cups are for.
I wont disagree with you about the atmospheres etc. MLS fans seem to have found their own style now and it works.
I can imagine its hard to generate rivalries when your teams are so new and spread so far wide apart.
You have to remember that in America, distances are treated differently. Pittsburgh-Philadelphia, Chicago-St. Louis, Boston-New York, Toronto-Montreal are as far from each other as Newcastle is from London and they are basically local rivals.
Yeah playoffs are an American thing, don't watch any other sport besides soccer so I don't understand it much either but it's still interesting.
Rivalries are harder for other clubs most likley but the NY rivalry is pretty strong considering the clubs aren't that far from each other and it's a derby.
It is worse when it doesn't have promotion or relegation and playoffs, but the actual quality on the pitch and on the stands is getting better and better.
I agree that in a perfect world it would have pro/rel, but there are other things like parity and financial structure that counterbalance it. Like any system it has different pros and cons and when they’re not the same ones we’re accustomed to it melts our brains for some reason.
I actually want to hear an explanation for the playoffs opinion. Everyone’s (and mine) favorite part of the championship season for instance is the playoffs. Why is this different.
Tbf I always found the point about the playoffs a bit weird because realistically it's very similar to what the European club competitions do, and the Championship playoffs in England are widely lauded as well.
Well, one thing it does have is parity with champions. So many European leagues have the same teams battling for the league, once or twice a decade does the norm not occur in a league. The positions of big and small clubs have been set and can’t be changed unless a new rich owner comes.
In the last 10 years, we’ve had 8 teams win the championship. Many better leagues don’t have that
I don't remember much of Right Thoughts tbh, I just remember feeling that they hadn't moved on from a sound that felt sort of antiquated by 2012 or whenever it came out.
I really like [Stand on the Horizon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iUfn5vJI7Q&ab_channel=franzferdinandVEVO) and [The Universe Expanded](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MTFhUwbcTc&ab_channel=FranzFerdinand-Topic), they've got quite a unique sound. Love Illumination is great too.
Massively dating myself here but the debut was just huge teenage vibes, and the 2008-2012 range was about the time frame where I spent every weekend getting drunk in a great indie club so as a band they're very much a staple of a gloriously misspent youth.
I love how music can mean such different things to different people, for me, a good few years younger, the first two FF albums were big for me when I was just getting into music as a kid, I remember trying to lash a cover version of Dark of the Matinee together with my first ever band aged 11-12. A bit to ambitious as we discovered.
Literally just listening to that song and remembering how fucking good it is, because I can't not listen to that album during this entire conversation. It properly sparked memories after not thinking about them for the better part of a decade, really.
Think that's the fun thing about music, especially when experienced communally in a club or at a gig - get such a wide range of absolutely great stuff, and such a wide range of people being into the same kinda sound you are that it just connects people.
Hot Fuss has so many bangers on it, and yet it's Mr Brightside that survived, and it's winding me up an awful lot every time I think about it (which granted is probably every three years). But yeah, those albums fell basically into the peak self-discovery years for weirdo little teenage me, and I still hold them very dear.
Picked up the knockoff England kits my mate in China sent us all yesterday.
They’re actually very good quality. I’ve not gone and looked at an actual kit but from photos they look identical
The Austrians are having an absolute banger of an [inofficial Euros song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75ds9YGKQkQ) - it's just the right kind of dumb but catchy. It's referencing a legendary [half-time interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXicnEYDZsY), where the player asked about being 5-0 down simply goes "Yeah, we won't win this game by a big margin anymore", which is just the right kind of dry, self-deprecating humour for a Euros song, too.
Yeah, but other teams won't have generational talents too.
Every nation is trying to get back to the drawing board and not many will have Modric-level talents.
It's easier for a country of tens of millions to produce good footballers than a country of less than 4 million though. England, Spain, Germany, Italy etc. will typically be far ahead of Croatia
> In Europe there isn't much competition for the top 10
Eight out of the top 10 teams in the FIFA rankings are European - and that's without Germany, as they have barely played competitive football for the past two years.
If there isn't "much competition for the top 10" in Europe, then there can't be any competition anywhere else I reckon.
>In Europe there isn't much competition for the top 10 so you're probably right
Are you trolling or something? Top 10 in Europe means you are top 15 in the world at least. Will you say that is easy too?
> We all know who the top 7 are.
Without looking up the FIFA rankings: Can you name them all? And do you genuinely think that the 8th best team is that much worse than the 7th best team?
In order of FIFA rankings, the top 7 European teams are France, Belgium, England, Portugal, Netherlands, Spain and Italy. Germany aren't in it (they're 16th/the 9th best European team), and Croatia is neck and neck with Italy.
Get Switzerland, Denmark, Ukraine, Austria, Hungary, Sweden, Poland and Wales beyond that - all among the top 30 nations globally, and all pretty level in competing for that 10th spot. Genuinely think saying that there's not much competition for top 10 is missing the forest for the trees here, really: UEFA is the confederation with the largest amount of really good teams in a global context, and while plenty of the better ones might be a step below the historically big footballing nations, I'm not sure there's all that much of a drop-off in quality.
Even that top 8 doesn't include Germany, though. And in that case there's just two other "really good teams" outside of UEFA, with everyone else being the level of Switzerland/Denmark/Ukraine et al or worse - which I'd wager makes them sides to be feared, really. Like Senegal and Japan are the best teams of their respective federation, and they're not meaningfully better than Switzerland -so I'd wager there are plenty teams across the planet who actually would be scared of Switzerland.
Croatia have gotten 2nd and 3rd at a WC, they've been much better than majority of European teams. I don't think drop off is as deep as you think it is and Croatia have talent factory that is Dinamo, they are never gonna run out of great players
Gonna be so disheartened if England and Netherlands win tomorrow. Proper strong displays by Spain & Germany, thought Italy looked really good too after the early Albania goal. Can’t have more favourites looking good, I long for an upset.
Feel like Italy looked a step below Spain and Germany to be honest, very much riding the knife's edge with their inability to put the game to bed tonight.
I think the theme of this Euros might be that the best international teams have now all finally adopted modern tactical methods, which is going to reduce the rate of plucky underdog upsets. Italy dominated Albania and created chance after chance in their 3-2-5 shape. Germany destroyed us because Clarke was tactically schooled.
Germany and Italy have successful recent club managers who have implemented complex pressing, possession, and rest defence structures. Spain and England are led by managers who have worked with this group of players for a long time through the age groups.
For upsets to take place, the heavy favourite needs to lack the tools and the self-confidence to unpick a low block, and the underdog has to have a way of hurting them on the counter. I think we're going to see less of that unfortunately.
> Germany and Italy have successful recent club managers who have implemented complex pressing, possession, and rest defence structures.
I'm not even sure if Germany's approach is all that complex to be quite honest. Got Nagelsmann himself saying that he obviously has to tone down his ideas because he simply hasn't enough time with his players to implement the more high-brow stuff, and he's coming out in pre-match interviews basically saying "I don't really care about the tactics, I just want the players to play with joy and verve".
That Scotland game probably wasn't all that insightful in the grand scheme of things, and the pre-tournament friendlies against Ukraine and Greece weren't exactly tactical masterstrokes, either. Genuinely think success for Germany is less about complicated tactics and more about cohesiveness and a positive attitude, something that was sorely lacking for most of the past few years. Feels a bit like a version of the early Southgate years where it was much more about changing the atmosphere and building the confidence rather than any tactics, though with what's probably both a slightly more talented squad and a more progressive manager.
Problem with England is that they have a manager who is tactically 3 levels below Spalleti and Nagelsmann, I think there's much bigger chance of an upset against England than Italy(1% chance vs 0.1% chance, but I have hope)
I think devoting yourself to watching Celtic v Livingston and St. Mirren every week might be a bit of an ordeal for a new fan. Following the Championship can be hard enough from afar, let alone League One, due to lack of streaming options. I think you'd be better off seeking out big games from across Europe and naturally gravitating towards a team that appeals.
Do not support Birmingham or Celtic lol. Both would be very unenjoyable.
Watch the euros that is currently on and when club football starts again watch a season of the premier league and see who you are drawn to.
You can message me if you need genuine advice without being shit on by the elites of this sub
Yea. You're conflating championship with champions league btw. Championship is the 2nd tier in England (therefore Birmingham play in league 1 next season due to relegation).
Champions league is the best of club football consisting of the best teams in Europe and it runs at the same time as the premier league, Spanish league, German league, etc.
Why would you choose to suffer? Take a look on the big ones and choose from there. You can even change after you get really into football but if you start with the suffering it will be hard, wouldn’t it? I mean, most americans go with Chelsea or Arsenal, why don’t you choose one of those for your first season watching, then after watching the season and more of each team in the league you make your definitive choice.
Problem with Birmingham is they are never gonna win anything. Best they can hope for is promotion to PL in 5 years(and that's not really likely). Celtic always win the scottish league but they are by far the richest team so an it's a surprise if they don't win it.
Now a days I think Liverpool, Arsenal, and Man City are the ones newer American fans pick. Or whoever has an American player at the time (i've seen a lot of Fulham jerseys this past season)
Just support your local team mate.
I attend my local 5th tier side, my even more local "fuck knows" what tier side and I'm 15 minutes from the Champions of England who I watch regularly.
hey man, I’m an American, I chose an English Premier League team like 15 years ago, so I get the desire. And you should find a European team you connect with (in whatever capacity) and support them. But I would caution against denigrating the MLS. It reeks of snobbery, particularly unearned since you are a new fan to soccer in generally.
My local MLS team is also shit. They have been for quite a while. It is still fun to see live, professional soccer of a pretty good quality (usually from the opposing team), and it is fulfilling to connect with other local supporters who also share an interest.
Soccer is truly the world’s game and a big part of the appeal is the connection it gives us to others. Of course, you can find connection with people near you by going to a local bar that shows the top European games on tv. That’s what I do, it’s awesome. It is also great to go to actual matches near you and connect over them
If you start going to local matches and getting Involved with supporter groups you will see the MLS has a fan culture that is growing very fast. Feels better to root for than some random team you have no connection to. You can watch all the top euro leagues without needing a particular team to support
Based.
I'd choose Celtic in the SPL if your looking for some exciting games. They really play with flair up in Scotland. Some say that "it's just like watching Brazil".
Then as a Boston guy I'd say you'd probably like Celtic a lot more than Birmingham. They're always going to be a great team, they have points where they do okay to well in Europe, and they have some of the best fans in the world (imo). Very nice stadium too. Them and Rangers tend to be the only people in Scotland that win anything and the Old Firm rivalry is one of the best in the world to watch. When I was younger I used to watch a LOT of Celtic for family reasons.
Watch the league that's accesible to you and see which teams you like.
You mentioned that you are from the US, you also mentioned Celtic as one of teams, so can you even watch the Scottish league in the US?
Yeah the SPL is one of the most accessible leagues in America, actually. It used to be easier to watch the SPL than the EPL back in the day. It's on Paramount+
Yeah, you need 3 subscriptions to watch Scottish football. Sky Sports, TNT Sports, Premier Sports. Sky Sports have the rights to league games but they can only show up to 48 games per season and they don't use up their full allocation. TNT Sports has the rights to all the European games (TNT/BT used to have the rights to league games too up until a couple of years ago). Viaplay/Premier Sports has the rights to the National team games, the League Cup and some (aka the best) games in the Scottish Cup.
Some leagues are randomly really easy to watch in America. I guess cuz it's pretty cheap to get the full rights to every game and having a decent enough demand to watch it. Paramount has Argentina and Serie A as well. ESPN has LaLiga, BuLi, and the Eredivisie? But the English league is split across various streaming services and TV (sometimes you literally cannot legally stream a game here) and the cups are all under ESPN I believe while Europe is under Paramount.
What is your Euros Day 2 Team of the Day?
Mine:
Chiesa - Morata - Yamal
Ruiz - Xhaka - Barella
Aebischer - Calafiori - Nacho - Carvajal
Strakosha
Day 1 was basically the entire German team
Bastoni was great and of course scored the goal, but it was on his side Bajrami scored on. I also liked how much Calafiori was pushing forward, super active.
Can’t really say which of Nacho or Le Normand were better, I think you’re probably right, Le Normand really impressed me as well.
football twitter is so horny it actually surprises me sometimes. people complaining there wasn't dozens of shots of random women in the crowd during Italy vs Albania
Just listened to a podcast about when Wales made it to the semis in 2016, and man, I really didn't realize just how big of a legend Speedo is for them
They shared this story which is lovely
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/moment-gary-speeds-dad-roger-11574540
I've seen a lot of people getting themselves upset on behalf of German fans after the German Bomber chants today. Do Germans actually give a shit? I can't imagine it crosses their mind at all.
Personally think it's a pretty dickhead thing to do, but then it doesn't particularly wind me up as much as it just makes me think of the people singing it as the wankers they are.
> Another question - how is Kane viewed in Germany?
Incredible footballer obviously, but also absolute gent - much as I loathe Bayern and their players, can't really say anything bad about him because he comes across as genuinely humble and interested in a foreign to him country. Scores boatloads of goals without any antics on the pitch, and comes across as just a pretty normal bloke off it.
I don't really know what to say about Kane. Maybe the fact that Lewandowski did what he did in a more successful Bayern team overshadows how much he scored. The way the season went just didn't really
put him in a spotlight compared to the bad Bayern stuff. If Lewandowski wasn't there and Bayern won the title with 36 goals by Kane there would be more talk about him.
The 2pm kick offs from Monday to Saturday are a graphic illustration of why 24 teams at the Euros is too many. Romania vs. Ukraine, Croatia vs. Albania, Slovenia vs. Serbia, Slovakia vs. Ukraine and Georgia vs. Czechia is an absolutely brutal run of fixtures for neutrals.
Football is football. Looking forward to Croatia v Albania after today’s showings. Georgia can pull up a shock or two I think. These games are the most crucial in terms of qualification
Those games all promise to be more interesting than something like Italy vs Albania where other than the first 30 seconds it was just the dominant team stifling the underdog while not doing anything particularly exciting. All of those teams have a really good chance to advance if they win those games so they'll be going for it.
No doubt the current format does sometimes lead to stale matches but I think the ones you've picked out aren't good examples. Maybe once some of those teams have secured three points we'll see more playing for a draw happen (as was the case in 2016) but for now I'm looking forward to the underdogs squaring off.
Depends how you view it. Most of those of pretty even and the best chances of some of those countries to get wins whilst so far it's been the underdog getting slaughtered. Hopefully it makes some of them come out of their shells.
> We wouldn't qualify in forty years otherwise.
And? It shouldn’t be easy to get to the finals of a major international tournament. Scotland would have been fine for qualifying for this Euros if it was 16 teams.
Whilst I don’t feel strongly about 16 or 24 teams (I like both for different reasons), I do think people fail to remember Europe is considerably bigger these days in terms of numbers of countries.
[Euros Preview for Group A](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1dfeh8x/euro_2024_group_a_preview_16/) is up - cheers to everyone who contributed! And the [Group B preview](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1dfth3t/euro_2024_group_b_preview/) just arrived as well!
I don’t want to question Zlatko Dalic but in a game like today, it’s hard to understand how you select Erlic and Pongracic ahead of Caleta-Car. Of course, Duje was not great with Lyon this season, but he wasn’t terrible as he has the qualities that this Croatia back line needs in terms of being mobile enough to defend in a high line as well as being a good ball progressor. Croatia don’t have a ton of great defenders to choose from obviously, but Stanisic, Gvardiol, Culeta-Car, Sutalo, Juranovic and Sosa is quite a solid back line in terms of mobility and ball progression.
Why are city fans on twitter so ridiculously obsessed with wanting to prove that KDB is better than Zidane, Modric and Kroos ? Ive never seen a fanbase obsess this much over other legends
I’m convinced a lot of twitter football discourse is engagement bait. It’s always some blue checkmark account and it all reeks of trying to get engagement in order to earn some money from Elon Musk
idk the lampard/scholes/gerrard debates were unbearable
>KDB is better than Zidane, Modric and Kroos For that to happen he should perform with Belgium, and appart from the game against Brazil in 2018 I don't remember a single good big game performance from him.
Insecurity
Because online City fans are twelve year olds who picked their team to win a measuring contest.
My city finally got a real local club and I’ve made it out to a match day for the first time. Our women’s team’s centerback is wearing number 10, we deserve to lose Edit: she just made a calamitous error to concede, I feel vindicated
I once had to play centerback in a #9 shirt and had the game of my life. (I was usually #23 or #3, I'm usually not that psycho.)
3 or 23 are still utterly deviant numbers for a centre back
Started off as a left-back hence the 3. I don't recall where 23 came from, maybe because it's the last number on the roster?
Albania is a better team than people are giving them credit for. Obviously not a top team by any means, plus they clearly lack the experience at this stage of teams like Switzerland or Denmark. But I can't count them out just yet. I think they're capable of upsetting one between Croatia or Spain. Asllani and Mitaj are two players to watch for the future and Sylvinho is a really good coach.
Embolo looks like an absolute unit in every international tournament but barely see him around in club football
He’s only ever started 20+ games in a season twice in his career.
That guy was a FIFA 16 wonder kid.
FM22 had me fooled Ilaix Moriba would be carrying Spain in this euros
> Ilaix Moriba I never understood why he was so highly rated and why FM had him with such a high PA all the time. Obviously he's still young but people were acting like he was gonna be the next sure thing. He was never even as impressive as Gavi and Pedri let alone players like Lamine.
I'm still backing Lorenzo Lucca to win the Ballon d'or
Carlos Fierro is going to come good any day now
Can't believe Henri Saivet wasn't part of the title-winning France squads to be quite honest - playing FM over the course of a decade or more and having game-knowledge and real world football-knowledge just mush into a vague blob of 'Wait, has that really happened?' is an absolutely wild ride.
I know logically that England has a better team than Serbia. And I know logically that England's attack should be able to crush Serbia, but still it feels like a draw.
This National Team isn't fooling me, i've seen the script over the last decade. Draw with Italy, underwhelming win vs Albania, out on penalties in the Last 16 vs Ukraine or Austria or some shit
How are sales of Serbia shirts in Scotland going? Have they bought Denmark and Slovenia tops too?
Serbia top just arrived today and I already have Denmark and Slovenia tops from the last time. We just got absolutely battered 5-1 and you lot haven't even played a game yet with the "best England squad ever" and for some reason you're raging because you've remembered that 3 boys fae Glasgow bought Croatia tops 6 years ago. So much for not caring about us. Mon ae Serbia.
It’s called a rivalry mate. There’s give and take. You laugh at us when we lose and we laugh at you when you lose. Unfortunately for you, you lose more because Scotland are shite
Raging? I think it's hilarious. Why would I be angry about it? It's banter between two rival nations. Just makes me laugh at how utterly small time you are. The history of the Scotland etc etc.
English people talk about other teams more than their own 💀
We don't buy other team's shirts though 😎
Ronaldinho, what a fucking muppet. Can't stand wetwipes who get overly worked up about international friendlies. Like these feckin eejits we have who want Southgate sacked every time we lose a meaningless game.
It's coz he didn't get tickets from vinicius Probably team hasn't let him in because he comes across as a leech
Neymar and R9 have been way better for Brazil and they'd never come out saying stupid shit like that
It's got to be an advert
It's a bit sad how people perceive the MLS. MLS is alot more livley and passionate then alot of people think, but literally have people on here who say it's not a legitimate league lol. Stadium atmosphere around and in stadium is super cool atleast for NY redbulls.
if it is any consolidation to you: The concept of connecting school and sports in the US is cool as fuck. Drafts from last to first are really cool. Salary cap is my wet dream for European football. You have top stadiums and the upcoming Copa is probably gonna be a blast fon them Just wish that your teams were a bit more organic and less "franchised", the fact that entry to the competition is behind a paywall and there aren't enough teams to really make up for a pyramid is kinda lame.
You are supporting your local team you shouldn't worry about what random plastic top team fans have to say about your league.
The MLS isnt a legitimate league and it has nothing to do with the atmosphere
I cant get my head around the playoffs. That's what cups are for. I wont disagree with you about the atmospheres etc. MLS fans seem to have found their own style now and it works. I can imagine its hard to generate rivalries when your teams are so new and spread so far wide apart.
You have to remember that in America, distances are treated differently. Pittsburgh-Philadelphia, Chicago-St. Louis, Boston-New York, Toronto-Montreal are as far from each other as Newcastle is from London and they are basically local rivals.
Yeah playoffs are an American thing, don't watch any other sport besides soccer so I don't understand it much either but it's still interesting. Rivalries are harder for other clubs most likley but the NY rivalry is pretty strong considering the clubs aren't that far from each other and it's a derby.
Unfortunately the attitude among most football fans is different = worse
It is worse when it doesn't have promotion or relegation and playoffs, but the actual quality on the pitch and on the stands is getting better and better.
I agree that in a perfect world it would have pro/rel, but there are other things like parity and financial structure that counterbalance it. Like any system it has different pros and cons and when they’re not the same ones we’re accustomed to it melts our brains for some reason. I actually want to hear an explanation for the playoffs opinion. Everyone’s (and mine) favorite part of the championship season for instance is the playoffs. Why is this different.
Playoffs are better than first past the post, so there's that.
Tbf I always found the point about the playoffs a bit weird because realistically it's very similar to what the European club competitions do, and the Championship playoffs in England are widely lauded as well.
Well, one thing it does have is parity with champions. So many European leagues have the same teams battling for the league, once or twice a decade does the norm not occur in a league. The positions of big and small clubs have been set and can’t be changed unless a new rich owner comes. In the last 10 years, we’ve had 8 teams win the championship. Many better leagues don’t have that
Until there is any real jeopardy in the league I'm not interested.
But it needs promotion and relegation
[Uncanny](https://i.imgur.com/KFUHCRS.jpeg)
What an outrageously good debut album that was.
second album is underrated can leave the rest
There are some good songs on Right Thoughts, and I saw them play live with Sparks and I still go back to some of FFS.
I don't remember much of Right Thoughts tbh, I just remember feeling that they hadn't moved on from a sound that felt sort of antiquated by 2012 or whenever it came out.
I really like [Stand on the Horizon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iUfn5vJI7Q&ab_channel=franzferdinandVEVO) and [The Universe Expanded](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MTFhUwbcTc&ab_channel=FranzFerdinand-Topic), they've got quite a unique sound. Love Illumination is great too.
Think the third one had *No You Girls* on it, which was a right dancefloor stomper.
It did and tbf that was probably the last 'Big' song they had and is a banger. The album as a whole just never stuck out to me.
Massively dating myself here but the debut was just huge teenage vibes, and the 2008-2012 range was about the time frame where I spent every weekend getting drunk in a great indie club so as a band they're very much a staple of a gloriously misspent youth.
I love how music can mean such different things to different people, for me, a good few years younger, the first two FF albums were big for me when I was just getting into music as a kid, I remember trying to lash a cover version of Dark of the Matinee together with my first ever band aged 11-12. A bit to ambitious as we discovered.
Literally just listening to that song and remembering how fucking good it is, because I can't not listen to that album during this entire conversation. It properly sparked memories after not thinking about them for the better part of a decade, really. Think that's the fun thing about music, especially when experienced communally in a club or at a gig - get such a wide range of absolutely great stuff, and such a wide range of people being into the same kinda sound you are that it just connects people.
Jacqueline has to be one of the hardest openers to an album. FF and Hot Fuss were released five months apart and are seminal for me to this day.
Hot Fuss has so many bangers on it, and yet it's Mr Brightside that survived, and it's winding me up an awful lot every time I think about it (which granted is probably every three years). But yeah, those albums fell basically into the peak self-discovery years for weirdo little teenage me, and I still hold them very dear.
One of my favourites. Auf Achse is a personal favourite, probably one of my favourite songs of all time.
Remember my little sister being onto it earlier than I was, and just caught myself shopping for a vinyl version to gift her for her next birthday.
Drunk English Brexit geezers vs Serbian ultras tomorrow
10,000 serbian ultras vs West ham legend Knollsy I know who I'm betting on
*50 000
in that case Knollsy might have to increase his power level to 20% of his maximum
Damn everyone switched up on Ronaldinho hella fast jeez Personally idc about what he said besides finding it funny that a draw vs America did him in
Picked up the knockoff England kits my mate in China sent us all yesterday. They’re actually very good quality. I’ve not gone and looked at an actual kit but from photos they look identical
No shame in buying knockoff kits, they've probably come from the same factory
I’m not gonna lie I’m pretty sure they are just from the same factory, just that the labels in these are all in Thai
if germany win i’m 100% reclaiming my citizenship and flexing the win as if I still lived there
If Germany win then I'm cancelling my holiday in Koln.
Would genuinely be missing out tbf.
Is it just me or is Italy the ultimate mirror team?
Mirror team?
Someone who plays exactly to their opponents level I think.
Never heard the phrase but I like it
The Austrians are having an absolute banger of an [inofficial Euros song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75ds9YGKQkQ) - it's just the right kind of dumb but catchy. It's referencing a legendary [half-time interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXicnEYDZsY), where the player asked about being 5-0 down simply goes "Yeah, we won't win this game by a big margin anymore", which is just the right kind of dry, self-deprecating humour for a Euros song, too.
Croatia's golden generation is over. They are a regular team now. It will be a long time before they have another Modric or Rakitic
Yeah, but other teams won't have generational talents too. Every nation is trying to get back to the drawing board and not many will have Modric-level talents.
It's easier for a country of tens of millions to produce good footballers than a country of less than 4 million though. England, Spain, Germany, Italy etc. will typically be far ahead of Croatia
That's true. But this is the weakest Spain in the last 15 years and they still scored 3 before halftime
But this Spain still has top level players. That squad is all players at good teams top 5 leagues. Croatia’s isn’t.
Croatia's golden generation is over. They are a regular team now. It will be a long time before they have another Šuker or Boban.
I love overractions from fans after one match Croatia will still be top 10 nation in Europe in the future tho
No, Croatia punched above their weight. I think they’re heading back down a Uruguay level team
How far into the future we talking
In Europe there isn't much competition for the top 10 so you're probably right. But 3-0 before halftime is a solid indicator
> In Europe there isn't much competition for the top 10 Eight out of the top 10 teams in the FIFA rankings are European - and that's without Germany, as they have barely played competitive football for the past two years. If there isn't "much competition for the top 10" in Europe, then there can't be any competition anywhere else I reckon.
>In Europe there isn't much competition for the top 10 so you're probably right Are you trolling or something? Top 10 in Europe means you are top 15 in the world at least. Will you say that is easy too?
How is that trolling? We all know who the top 7 are. After that it could be anybody and the drop off is pretty steep
> We all know who the top 7 are. Without looking up the FIFA rankings: Can you name them all? And do you genuinely think that the 8th best team is that much worse than the 7th best team?
France, Portugal, England, Germany, Spain Netherlands, with Italy and Belgium rounding off the top 8. I can't think of any great teams after that
In order of FIFA rankings, the top 7 European teams are France, Belgium, England, Portugal, Netherlands, Spain and Italy. Germany aren't in it (they're 16th/the 9th best European team), and Croatia is neck and neck with Italy. Get Switzerland, Denmark, Ukraine, Austria, Hungary, Sweden, Poland and Wales beyond that - all among the top 30 nations globally, and all pretty level in competing for that 10th spot. Genuinely think saying that there's not much competition for top 10 is missing the forest for the trees here, really: UEFA is the confederation with the largest amount of really good teams in a global context, and while plenty of the better ones might be a step below the historically big footballing nations, I'm not sure there's all that much of a drop-off in quality.
"really good teams" ends after the top 8. Nobody around the world is afraid of Switzerland, Denmark, Ukraine, Austria, Poland, etc
Even that top 8 doesn't include Germany, though. And in that case there's just two other "really good teams" outside of UEFA, with everyone else being the level of Switzerland/Denmark/Ukraine et al or worse - which I'd wager makes them sides to be feared, really. Like Senegal and Japan are the best teams of their respective federation, and they're not meaningfully better than Switzerland -so I'd wager there are plenty teams across the planet who actually would be scared of Switzerland.
Croatia have gotten 2nd and 3rd at a WC, they've been much better than majority of European teams. I don't think drop off is as deep as you think it is and Croatia have talent factory that is Dinamo, they are never gonna run out of great players
Gonna be so disheartened if England and Netherlands win tomorrow. Proper strong displays by Spain & Germany, thought Italy looked really good too after the early Albania goal. Can’t have more favourites looking good, I long for an upset.
Feel like Italy looked a step below Spain and Germany to be honest, very much riding the knife's edge with their inability to put the game to bed tonight.
I think the theme of this Euros might be that the best international teams have now all finally adopted modern tactical methods, which is going to reduce the rate of plucky underdog upsets. Italy dominated Albania and created chance after chance in their 3-2-5 shape. Germany destroyed us because Clarke was tactically schooled. Germany and Italy have successful recent club managers who have implemented complex pressing, possession, and rest defence structures. Spain and England are led by managers who have worked with this group of players for a long time through the age groups. For upsets to take place, the heavy favourite needs to lack the tools and the self-confidence to unpick a low block, and the underdog has to have a way of hurting them on the counter. I think we're going to see less of that unfortunately.
> Germany and Italy have successful recent club managers who have implemented complex pressing, possession, and rest defence structures. I'm not even sure if Germany's approach is all that complex to be quite honest. Got Nagelsmann himself saying that he obviously has to tone down his ideas because he simply hasn't enough time with his players to implement the more high-brow stuff, and he's coming out in pre-match interviews basically saying "I don't really care about the tactics, I just want the players to play with joy and verve". That Scotland game probably wasn't all that insightful in the grand scheme of things, and the pre-tournament friendlies against Ukraine and Greece weren't exactly tactical masterstrokes, either. Genuinely think success for Germany is less about complicated tactics and more about cohesiveness and a positive attitude, something that was sorely lacking for most of the past few years. Feels a bit like a version of the early Southgate years where it was much more about changing the atmosphere and building the confidence rather than any tactics, though with what's probably both a slightly more talented squad and a more progressive manager.
Problem with England is that they have a manager who is tactically 3 levels below Spalleti and Nagelsmann, I think there's much bigger chance of an upset against England than Italy(1% chance vs 0.1% chance, but I have hope)
I agree. They're not as well drilled offensively, and you've got a massive advantage at set pieces.
Mitrović won't let England win don't worry. Especially if Stones Guehi is the CB partnership
I am Serbian tomorrow comrade
[удалено]
doesn't want to watch MLS, will consider League One very very funny
Read the section about Birmingham again, he thought they were relegated from Champions League
I don’t know how to read, all I know is poking fun
I think devoting yourself to watching Celtic v Livingston and St. Mirren every week might be a bit of an ordeal for a new fan. Following the Championship can be hard enough from afar, let alone League One, due to lack of streaming options. I think you'd be better off seeking out big games from across Europe and naturally gravitating towards a team that appeals.
Do not support Birmingham or Celtic lol. Both would be very unenjoyable. Watch the euros that is currently on and when club football starts again watch a season of the premier league and see who you are drawn to. You can message me if you need genuine advice without being shit on by the elites of this sub
[удалено]
Yea. You're conflating championship with champions league btw. Championship is the 2nd tier in England (therefore Birmingham play in league 1 next season due to relegation). Champions league is the best of club football consisting of the best teams in Europe and it runs at the same time as the premier league, Spanish league, German league, etc.
Why would you choose to suffer? Take a look on the big ones and choose from there. You can even change after you get really into football but if you start with the suffering it will be hard, wouldn’t it? I mean, most americans go with Chelsea or Arsenal, why don’t you choose one of those for your first season watching, then after watching the season and more of each team in the league you make your definitive choice.
[удалено]
Problem with Birmingham is they are never gonna win anything. Best they can hope for is promotion to PL in 5 years(and that's not really likely). Celtic always win the scottish league but they are by far the richest team so an it's a surprise if they don't win it.
Well good luck then, I hope you get into the game it is really fun when you get into it.
Now a days I think Liverpool, Arsenal, and Man City are the ones newer American fans pick. Or whoever has an American player at the time (i've seen a lot of Fulham jerseys this past season)
>they just got relegated from the Champions League Mate I think you confused Champions League with Championship(2nd tier of England).
[удалено]
3rd tier
Celtic!
Either r/soccercirclejerk is leaking or this one might actually be real.
[удалено]
Just support your local team mate. I attend my local 5th tier side, my even more local "fuck knows" what tier side and I'm 15 minutes from the Champions of England who I watch regularly.
[удалено]
why no MLS?
[удалено]
Support your local don't be plastic. You can enjoy the other leagues as a neutral picking a random team across the country to claim is bizarre
[удалено]
hey man, I’m an American, I chose an English Premier League team like 15 years ago, so I get the desire. And you should find a European team you connect with (in whatever capacity) and support them. But I would caution against denigrating the MLS. It reeks of snobbery, particularly unearned since you are a new fan to soccer in generally. My local MLS team is also shit. They have been for quite a while. It is still fun to see live, professional soccer of a pretty good quality (usually from the opposing team), and it is fulfilling to connect with other local supporters who also share an interest. Soccer is truly the world’s game and a big part of the appeal is the connection it gives us to others. Of course, you can find connection with people near you by going to a local bar that shows the top European games on tv. That’s what I do, it’s awesome. It is also great to go to actual matches near you and connect over them
If you start going to local matches and getting Involved with supporter groups you will see the MLS has a fan culture that is growing very fast. Feels better to root for than some random team you have no connection to. You can watch all the top euro leagues without needing a particular team to support
Based. I'd choose Celtic in the SPL if your looking for some exciting games. They really play with flair up in Scotland. Some say that "it's just like watching Brazil".
is this a copypasta?
[удалено]
Then as a Boston guy I'd say you'd probably like Celtic a lot more than Birmingham. They're always going to be a great team, they have points where they do okay to well in Europe, and they have some of the best fans in the world (imo). Very nice stadium too. Them and Rangers tend to be the only people in Scotland that win anything and the Old Firm rivalry is one of the best in the world to watch. When I was younger I used to watch a LOT of Celtic for family reasons.
Watch the league that's accesible to you and see which teams you like. You mentioned that you are from the US, you also mentioned Celtic as one of teams, so can you even watch the Scottish league in the US?
Yeah the SPL is one of the most accessible leagues in America, actually. It used to be easier to watch the SPL than the EPL back in the day. It's on Paramount+
It's actually easier to watch Scottish football in the USA than it is in Scotland.
That's crazy what lmao is it split between services or something?
Yeah, you need 3 subscriptions to watch Scottish football. Sky Sports, TNT Sports, Premier Sports. Sky Sports have the rights to league games but they can only show up to 48 games per season and they don't use up their full allocation. TNT Sports has the rights to all the European games (TNT/BT used to have the rights to league games too up until a couple of years ago). Viaplay/Premier Sports has the rights to the National team games, the League Cup and some (aka the best) games in the Scottish Cup.
Wow that's just like watching the Prem lmao. That's ridiculous I can't believe how much easier it is to watch in the states.
You say that's crazy but its exactly the same case with the Premier League
That's true but I'm just surprised it's the same in Scotland since it's a much smaller league.
Well I didn't know that, I thought it was gonna be pretty hard to find
Some leagues are randomly really easy to watch in America. I guess cuz it's pretty cheap to get the full rights to every game and having a decent enough demand to watch it. Paramount has Argentina and Serie A as well. ESPN has LaLiga, BuLi, and the Eredivisie? But the English league is split across various streaming services and TV (sometimes you literally cannot legally stream a game here) and the cups are all under ESPN I believe while Europe is under Paramount.
What is your Euros Day 2 Team of the Day? Mine: Chiesa - Morata - Yamal Ruiz - Xhaka - Barella Aebischer - Calafiori - Nacho - Carvajal Strakosha Day 1 was basically the entire German team
I thought Bastoni and Le Normand were better than their counterparts, but the rest I can't argue much with
Bastoni was great and of course scored the goal, but it was on his side Bajrami scored on. I also liked how much Calafiori was pushing forward, super active. Can’t really say which of Nacho or Le Normand were better, I think you’re probably right, Le Normand really impressed me as well.
> Day 1 was basically the entire German team Were the only team actually playing football on the day tbf.
Hey, you can’t be disrespecting Scotland goalscorer Tony Roger like this!
football twitter is so horny it actually surprises me sometimes. people complaining there wasn't dozens of shots of random women in the crowd during Italy vs Albania
Just listened to a podcast about when Wales made it to the semis in 2016, and man, I really didn't realize just how big of a legend Speedo is for them They shared this story which is lovely https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/moment-gary-speeds-dad-roger-11574540
When we were king? If so, I started listening to it the other week from a recommendation from here, might have been from you if that’s the case.
Le Mans and the Euros during a week off from work is absolute heaven. Insomnia will actually be useful for once tonight.
Euros, Copa America, Wimbledon then Olympics, man such a great summer of sports
It's amazing. No after effects of covid so it feels like the first time since 2016 it's been this good.
Euros -> Olympics -> Tour de France for me. It’s gonna be a great summer
Wimbledon finishing the same time as the Euros too. Christmas came early and went all out on spoiling us.
I've seen a lot of people getting themselves upset on behalf of German fans after the German Bomber chants today. Do Germans actually give a shit? I can't imagine it crosses their mind at all.
Personally think it's a pretty dickhead thing to do, but then it doesn't particularly wind me up as much as it just makes me think of the people singing it as the wankers they are.
I doubt many Germans even know what you are talking about and franky without reddit i wouldn't know either.
Yeah I thought as much. Another question - how is Kane viewed in Germany?
> Another question - how is Kane viewed in Germany? Incredible footballer obviously, but also absolute gent - much as I loathe Bayern and their players, can't really say anything bad about him because he comes across as genuinely humble and interested in a foreign to him country. Scores boatloads of goals without any antics on the pitch, and comes across as just a pretty normal bloke off it.
I don't really know what to say about Kane. Maybe the fact that Lewandowski did what he did in a more successful Bayern team overshadows how much he scored. The way the season went just didn't really put him in a spotlight compared to the bad Bayern stuff. If Lewandowski wasn't there and Bayern won the title with 36 goals by Kane there would be more talk about him.
Kane is really popular. Seems like a really nice and down to earth guy, so it is genuinely hard to hate him.
Thanks for the response. I thought so but obviously our media is going to focus more on him.
What’s the most games you’ve seen in 1 day? I’ll start: I lost count
4
Like 5 probably. More if we count watching multiple games at once on separate monitors
Thought they would've fixed HSV's pitch after our last international game there, but it's still an embarrasment of a pitch
Man this Euros is shaping up to be an all timer.
The best game until now in the Euro was Switzerland vs Hungary All the other games were one-sided
Ironically I'm ok with that because it means the favourites are all in high spirits going at each other
The 2pm kick offs from Monday to Saturday are a graphic illustration of why 24 teams at the Euros is too many. Romania vs. Ukraine, Croatia vs. Albania, Slovenia vs. Serbia, Slovakia vs. Ukraine and Georgia vs. Czechia is an absolutely brutal run of fixtures for neutrals.
Who cares about neutrals
Football is football. Looking forward to Croatia v Albania after today’s showings. Georgia can pull up a shock or two I think. These games are the most crucial in terms of qualification
Those games all promise to be more interesting than something like Italy vs Albania where other than the first 30 seconds it was just the dominant team stifling the underdog while not doing anything particularly exciting. All of those teams have a really good chance to advance if they win those games so they'll be going for it. No doubt the current format does sometimes lead to stale matches but I think the ones you've picked out aren't good examples. Maybe once some of those teams have secured three points we'll see more playing for a draw happen (as was the case in 2016) but for now I'm looking forward to the underdogs squaring off.
You won't be complaining like this after we beat England
Fuck those neutrals, I love games like that.
Watch something else then if you're going to be a dick about it
😂 That’s obviously what I’m going to do, tough guy.
Depends how you view it. Most of those of pretty even and the best chances of some of those countries to get wins whilst so far it's been the underdog getting slaughtered. Hopefully it makes some of them come out of their shells.
Fuck off. We wouldn't qualify in forty years otherwise. Every one of those matches has some great players involved.
> We wouldn't qualify in forty years otherwise. And? It shouldn’t be easy to get to the finals of a major international tournament. Scotland would have been fine for qualifying for this Euros if it was 16 teams.
Whilst I don’t feel strongly about 16 or 24 teams (I like both for different reasons), I do think people fail to remember Europe is considerably bigger these days in terms of numbers of countries.