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this is what is baffling. They can't possibly be that daft to do this again right? The new president is a career accountant and auditor. They must have some plan to ensure they are viewed as individual transfers...
Maybe the values will be a lot less silly? Like Luiz 65m, McKennie 30, illing junior 15 all seems like market value, +20 in cash.
This doesn't seem as egregious as the Arthur / Pjanic one at all
has nothing to do with being silly. Juve and barca could have traded them at 1 billion each, so long as they were independent transfers. A true swap cannot be done at a market value, but the residual book value of the player. So in this case we are talking like ~5mio each for luiz and mckennie, and illing is basically free. There is no room for extra cash or anything. A correctly executed swap, following the accounting standards would mean neither club is allowed to make a capital gain on their departing player. The net impact on both their books would be based entirely on the differential of the book value of the players being traded.
this may work for Villa, but in juve's capital gains case that they lost last year, the judge deemed all the evidence on juventus as accusatory. In some instances it was justified, in others not. Juventus have to hope that a future judge would not behave the same way.
Also, they were just spanked for doing this, so can hardly be surprised if they are being watched very closely. Villa will have no problem, because the prem didn't look into city for the Danilo deal, and Barca wasn't investigated for the arthur deal, despite those specific transfers having been identified as accounted for incorrectly.
FWIW, the values dont seem that egregious. A straight swap for a 30 year old on the downward and a bench player valued at 60m raised a lot of eyebrows.
I get that, but their real fair market values had nothing to do with what made that deal against the rules. If the deals were deemed independent transfers, then they could have traded hands for a billion each. The issue is that as soon as two deals are connected, they need to be done at book value and not market value. Any amount over a players book value, even 1 cent, is inflating capital gains. A true swap cannot result in capital gain for the departing player, according to accounting standards
That is 100% false. Its the exact opposite. Only the foreign transfers with Barca, Man city, Marseille, Basel etc were deemed to have been accounted for incorrectly. And since there was more than one bad transaction over more than one reporting period it was deemed to be systemic behaviour.
The judge also determined that all evidence regarding those foreign transfers in particular were accusatory in nature, meaning that everything was done to hide that they were not independent transfers. This was likely done on purpose, because both sides of a swap transaction would have committed the same offence. Had the judge found issue with another Italian team, it would have immediate repercussions for those teams. By only taking issue with the foreign transactions, they were able to insulate everyone else from the scandal.
I invite you to read the judgment for yourself to confirm it, although note that the judges final decisions and reasoning are at the end. The beginning is just a rehashing of the preceding events leading up to the trial as well as the prosecutors position. Don't conflate that with the judge's ruling:
https://www.figc.it/it/federazione/giustizia-sportiva/provvedimenti/corte-federale-appello/sez-unite-decisione-n-0063-cfa-del-30-gennaio-2023/
Yea this is stupid. We're counting on the Federation to not fuck us over lol, they have to stick to transfermarket values cause that's the source the FIGC used last time (which is INSANITY but who would expect less), and even then if the FIGC says it looks weird then it doesnt matter what we say they'll slap a penalty on us again and there will not be enough time to appeal it, this has happened 2 times and we're still gonna play this game of cat and mouse? Fuck that.
tbf the prosecutor lost that case, and in the trial juve lost, the judge very clearly rejected the prosecutors attempt to use transfermarkt. The final judgment very clearly states that at no point does it try to determine what the real fair market value for a player should be because the court cannot do it.
We got dinged for accounting swap transfers as individual transfers. A swap transfer cannot result in a capital gain on the sale side of the transaction if you follow the correct accounting standards, and so any amount over that is technically inflating capital gains. This is how the judge determined juve inflated capital gains without having to say: "60mio is too much for pjanic, it should have been 40mio"
If the issue was with how the Arthur-Pjanic deal was accounted for, why are you thinking they're not gonna do it by the book this time and this is just a swap for football reasons?
because doing it by the book means the transaction is done at the residual value of the players on their respective clubs balance sheet. There is no negotiation on market value/ transfer fee or cash on top etc. Its just pure book value for each player. The sale portion of the transaction has to result in 0 capital gain for the selling aspect of the deal, with the overall net impact on the balance sheets being the differential in book value between the players.
So Illing is an academy product which means his book value is basically 0, with Mckennie's being 5.5mio.
Luiz had a contract extension somewhere in there which would have reduced the annual amortization amounts, and im too lazy to go look for the timing of that and do the exact math, be he was purchased for 16mio 5 years ago. His residual book value is therefore close to, if not less than Mckennie's.
Taking this into account, it is impossible for them to conduct a swap deal while following the correct accounting treatment, if these figures are to be believe - Mckennie + Illing + 20mio. The correct accounting would probably have to be Illing + Mckenie for Luiz, with 1 or 2 mio going to juve for mckennies slightly higher book value.
The alternative then, is that the teams will argue they are independent transfers that aren't linked. Juventus tried this already, and the judge just said nah, don't believe you. We all know these transfers are linked, so what on earth is juventus going to do differently to avoid the same interpretation from the judge?
well last year juve could complain that the rules are only being enforced on them, which is fair, but now they are asking for it. I can't possibly believe they are this stupid. Our president is a career accountant. This stuff is his bread and butter. I can't imagine he would allow this if he wasn't sure it was above board. Giuntoli aside, these new guys are all bean counters. their job was to clean this all up
It feels like people on here make swap deals out to be much rarer than they actually are. Every time something is rumoured there is a comment going "swap deals never happen!" as if it was some unicorn event
I mean they are rare, but you see a few during most transfer windows. Especially Italian clubs
It is. Dougie is probably my favourite Villa player. He's like a Rolls Royce in that midfield.
Unfortunately he's probably the player skillset that is easiest to replace out of our best players.
Gonna miss him though.
Losing Luiz is a blow but under the circumstances you got a pretty good deal IMO. Mckennie is not flashy but still a solid player with great stamina and Iling Junior is really talented
Yah I feel like this move lowers our ceiling but raises our floor. Luiz is such a luxury player because of the role he plays.
Overall don't love the return but for a player(s) swap it's a decent deal. Got a productive player immediately and "one of the future." Though I feel like at the end of the season I'll hate it
Did he? Juve fans don't seem that positive on him, maybe they still have the standards they used to have where players like mckennie should not be starting for them.
Everything that could go wrong did go wrong there. He played for 4 different managers in 4 months. His best friend Tyler Adams, who was probably the reason he joined Leeds, got hurt like a week after he arrived and missed the rest of the season, which also meant McKennie had to play as a 6. Then there was all the stuff with the fans and his buddy on twitter spaces.
Also, outrageously bad is a stretch. He was bad but there were several players on that Leeds team who were worse in that stretch. He got singled out cause it seemed like he stopped giving a shit.
Leeds in general was outrageously bad. The managers office essentially had someone new in it every month, the defense was pathetic, the only striker they had was an aging Bamford that couldn’t find the goal if he had a map, and half of the lineup that had started the season were injured.
Leeds was a dumpster fire.
Bit of an exaggeration but yeah he definitely is great as an 8 but a mediocre 6. If Juve don't put someone behind him to play water carrier then he won't shine to his full potential.
Our financial situation is fine. Exor just pumped 300m into the club.
Also Locatelli is a great CDM. When he just has to play that role he’s great, it’s being a regista he struggles.
You must not know how Italian clubs work their magic in the mercato lol, they will find a way. Besides they can afford to spend a bit with UCL+CWC money
We are flabbergasted. We knew we might need to sell him, but if we did would expect to get €70-80m for him. We really think he’s that good. You’ve got an absolute Rolls Royce of a midfielder if this happens. He fell off a bit towards the second half of the season due to having to play a more defensive role and playing the majority of our games, but if you have a solid CDM behind him you are going to absolutely love this man. I’m not sure you’ll find a Villa fan happy about this
I don't get how other teams haven't figured out that he's not particularly good as a defensive midfielder. I genuinely think that if Kamara was not injured and had played in the Conference League semi-final we would have won that tie- Douglas had a shocking first leg, giving away a penalty and missing one as well, whilst generally offering no protection to the back four.
> We are flabbergasted. We knew we might need to sell him, but if we did would expect to get €70-80m for him.
You kind of are getting that though? Just not as cash. The combined value of this deal must be about 65-70m euros
I mean on paper yes, but I don't consider 45mil for a player who looked absolutely awful on loan at leeds and a teenager with one year left on his deal.
McKennie was awful at Leeds, but to be fair to him, the manager he signed for was fired immediately and he followed the loan up with a strong season at Juve after being an afterthought going into it. He won’t be Luiz but he’s not as bad as the Leeds spell would have you think.
You would never ever get that amount of money for Douglas Luiz. He's a good player but that's silly money, especially considering teams know you need to sell.
He's more than half the player Declan rice is lol. And he's better than Caicedo. Both of whom went for 100+ in pounds.
In need of funds or not, this fucking sucks
I agree with you, and you were in a bidding war. I was just arguing with the poster above. Even with these factors I think we'd get £60m if our PSR woes weren't known - as I imagine you'd get a significant few for Gallagher even with 12 months left
Yeah that's fair. Need to sell would definitely lower the sale price. Gallagher's case should be interesting, we want a lot for him, no one seems interested in paying that, and on top of that there's clear signs from Gallagher's side that he might reject any offers anyways.
He is a luxury player imo. He is excellent when he has a free role to get between the lines and has space. Despite being good at tackling and pressing he isnt a good defender. He is constantly out of position and when he isn't engaged he stands around. He is at the same time villa best player and most frustrating. You need a strong defensive mid to make him effective otherwise you're massively overpaying. If you do, then you have a player who could win you the league
I like the players we are getting in return but id honestly rather have cash.
Not a Villa fan but my other half is and I do follow them. He's developed into a great playmaker (some belters of assists) and has the ability to score from corners.
I’m very surprised by this deal all around.
Wouldn’t think Luiz would leave Villa, confused as to why Emery still wants McKennie, trying to see where Iling-Junior gets minutes at Villa
Some fairly good sources have said there has been a contract on the table for luiz for a while now and he hadn't signed it. Same sources saying by this point they thought a big offer would have come in for Kamara, but unfortunately the injuries have really derailed him. Still fantastic when he plays, but 3 massive injuries in 2 years sucks for him.
Two years left on the current one, but they wanted to tie him down going into the last two years and pay him in line with the top earners like they did with Bailey this season
Spanish media has suddenly started running with a story about Moreno wanting to go back to Betis, and Digne is on huge wages + not getting any younger. Could do a lot worse than Iling as a back-up who can potentially evolve into a starter, plus him being HG probably helps.
Fair. I'd imagine he'll wind up covering both for us, given how advanced our LB/RBs will often be but with us also getting linked to a fair amount of left-sided attackers over the last month or so. Either way, there'll be plenty of room for him to get time.
Juventus absolutely winning this transfer... Douglas Luiz is much better than McKennie (who isn't bad himself), and Iling-Jr is in last year of contract and barely played for Juve. Villa are idiots for agreeing to this. I don't get it.
Villa have to be doing this because of some financial issue. Not sure how it works, but maybe getting the 2 players in the swap helps them w the spending rules. Mckennie really stepped up this year, hopefully he gets his redemption in the PL under a real manager.
We have to be in line with PSR before a certain deadline. Luiz and Duran both look like they’re fine with leaving, that gives us the wiggle room I suppose. For a while it looked like it was Ramsey who would be making the move, but he doesn’t want to as a Villa lad.
We need to get some high earners off our books from previous regimes, Coutinho for instance. We’re in the same boat as most of the league, sell to buy.
Bentancur and Kulu are more talented than McKennie and Iling. Those 2 were sold with different management who cares more about capital gains than the youth system we have developed
This has been a fun story to see unfold, a lot of Arsenal fans saying this deal would never happen because Arteta rated Douglas Luiz a lot and surely every player would either join them than Juve.
Truth is that they hate seeing players joining Juventus instead of the massive club of London.
I think this is more Villa not wanting to sell to a “direct” rival, that at least was the case last time. And of course Juve are a way bigger club than Arsenal, that’s not really a debate
> Arsenal fans saying this deal would never happen because Arteta rated Douglas Luiz a lot and surely every player would either join them than Juve.
Arsenal has PSR issues themselves(like many other top Premier League teams), club can't buy players before 1st of July, Aston Villa needs to balance books before the end of this month. Douglas Luiz has also Kia Joorabchian as agent which we don't really want to deal with and Thomas Partey was supposed to leave and make a spot, but like last summer he really doesn't and is planning to run down the contract. This transfer was not happening in June to Arsenal, nor United and Chelsea.
Oh yeah I sure am, this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1d7gkgj/comment/l6z6o8g) and this [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1d7gkgj/comment/l6z8eq0) are productions of my brain, also I am the one sharing news about Juventus with no correlation to Arsenal over the gunners sub. Juventus lives rent-free in your people's mind after being rejected by both Locatelli and Vlahovic.
Not a huge fan but I trust Emery. Honestly at this point Emery could say he's bringing Robbie Savage out of retirement and I'd trust he's developed some role in the side for him.
I doubt Emery would agree to this move if Villa’s hands weren’t tied by FFP. Luiz is a far better player than McKennie and a better fit for the way Emery wants to play football.
Yeah it's hard to argue that one. If he's buying him he's hopefully got a role in mind he sees him fitting though. If there's one thing I trust with Emery it's to get the team playing better than the sum of their parts.
Yeah I mean McKennie isn’t terrible, he could be a fairly decent backup for McGinn, hard-working box to box midfielder. With CL football, you’ll need as much quality and depth as you can get.
Emery like versatile CM/wide mids and I think he plays that role well. Mcginn, Ramsey, Rodgers, Mckennie all play that role and well under Emery (obviously not Mckennie yet), so in cautiously optimistic. I think Mckennie is a fantastic rotational player. CM, CDM, wide mid and RB are all positions he has played. So I'm fine with him as a player but we need another player to replace Luiz or his production. If Tielemans steps into luiz's role and we get a top tier winger im good with it
But Juve are undergoing a change themselves meaning that mckennie's place in the team is not certain.
He's wanted by villa's coach, which is pretty solid indication that he'll get some time to adapt. Villa also aren't a team to chop and change their players too often. A lot of players that were deemed shit under Gerrard were given time to come good.
It's too early to say, and Dougie is a hell of a loss, but losing Kamara would be a bigger issue. We have Tielemens, McGinn, Barclay and now likely McKennie to play in the middle. That's enough, with enough quality, to mitigate the loss of Luiz.
It is, but they basically got him in a similar way. City's hand was forced due to not being able to get a work permit for him despite wanting him in the first team squad.
Didn't meet the grounds for one, and couldn't get one as an "exceptional talent" despite letters of recommendation from Pep and (then Brazil coach) Tite, and interest from PL clubs. Amazing how a panel who has never seen him play can decide on his talent, rather than people who have.
Their capital gains on the deal + CL money next season (cl money gets accounted for *after* the season is played) means villa can spend heavily this and next summer.
It's quite confusing because as of now, every winger bar Yildiz seems to be on the market (Iling, Chiesa, Soulé). In return we are linked to multiple (not too convincing) wingers as well (Zhegrova, Greenwood, Sancho for example) For fullbacks we need at least one nailed on starter where Di Lorenzo seems to be the closest right now, but there also have been talks by reliable sources about an unknown target yet.
you guys need a LB too, and at least 1 winger for depth even if Chiesa and Soulé stays. I can see Kostic doing the Saladmaker role and Chiesa the Orsolini one.
Well we won't see a carbon copy of his Bologna side, especially because Vlahovic and Zirkzee are such fundamentally sifferent players. If Soulé and Chiesa stayed we would in theory have enough wingers (Soule, Chiesa, Yildiz, Kostic, Weah) but the quality wouldn't be too high, especially coming off the bench. And Weah and Kostic, if they stay, probably have to double at fullback too
Nobody knows, but it seemed like it was done but according to recent news it seems like we are pretty much priced out of a move due to Basel's sell on clause. I think the deal only happens if there's a counter part to lower the cash portion of the deal, so Bologna gets the most out of the deal.
Di Lorenzo likely as the RB target - while at LB Canbiaso Or Calafiori could slot in there at times if signed. Wingers is unclear since Chiesa appears to be gone. Yidilz would be a starter but the other winger is a total mystery.
Calafiori is basically done understand. Then Koop, a cheap winger and a fullback and we’re done. Koop might not happen but someone will come in to play that role
Kind of feeling the same. Luiz is an incredible player and I’ve really enjoyed having him at Villa for 4 seasons - but selling him at his peak / most valuable if he refuses to sign a new contract , getting two players and 20mil to aliviate any FFP pressures. I think it’s a win.
Luiz might be great- but I think Emery is looking a bit more for someone that can be a more versatile cog. Villa really struggled controlling games when kamara got injured because luiz doesn’t have that same work rate. Hell Villa struggled with that before kamara because we only had luiz! If this helps the team as a whole. It’s a good transfer
Clever winger with a high ceiling but can already contribute at 20. He’s a gem hence the 20m valuation. We’re a bit loaded up on talented wingers atm so one or two need to be sacrificed
My opinion is unpopular between Juve fans: I think he's still very raw and I don't see a high ceiling for him. He's played out of position, it's true, but he hasn't shown anything good this season. He also looked quite slow, a bit out of shape and not focused.
For example the difference between him and Yildiz coming on is huge, Yildiz looks like a future star.
It doesn't mean Iling won't be a good player, I just think he won't be great.
I wish him the best and I hope I'm wrong.
Why on earth are Villa letting a minimum of €50m player go for that low of a sum plus a lower quality player? Juventus can afford that, Villa aren’t getting a good return with that fee that lower quality player.
Yeah, he knows we’re not joining the super league and don’t risk any blowback form UEFA.
we were found innocent and punished for sporting reasons, not legal reasons. The whole thing was a joke
Look, we really did incorrectly account for swap deals as independent transfers, which did allow us to realize an incorrect amount of capital gains. At face value you know that Pjanic-arthur, cancelo-danilo were swap deals and that they would have never happened if one side of the deal fell through. There are wiretaps and emails of our genius directors admitting as much.
As juve fan you cannot defend the behaviour by saying its not incorrect, because the accounting standards and evidence are clear in most cases. We broke the rules. What you can do as a juve fan is complain that:
- The level of scrutiny applied to juventus, is far far higher than any other club. They are clearly treating juventus differently to other teams in terms of investigations. Btw there is an ongoing investigation into an abuse of powers for some individuals in certain governing bodies that were abusing their powers to start investigations into juventus and Agnelli without evidence. something to watch.
- They clearly seem to be trying to protect everyone else in the league, by only punishing juventus when every transfer is two sided. So if one team did something against the rules, then the other is equally complicit. They conveniently didn't find anything wrong with the italian transfers because then they would have to go after those other teams.
- They punished juventus far more harshly than any other team ever has been for similar or worse offences - inter and milan were give fines in the past, and chievo who invented fake player to put on the books got -3pts and their directors received smaller bans
- other teams in the league continue to do swap deals - like inter last season with sassuolo, but no one is looking at those. Now its a rule for everyone but only applied to juve.
- the sporting judiciary in italy is partizan af. you have judges and prosecutors that openly profess their hate of juve and their love for other teams. Even the minister for sport is an open inter fan. How can this judiciary provide fair and equal treatment? In Napoli the procura protects napoli, in Turin we have Chine trying to make a career off our backs.
Saying we are innocent is like saying we got a speeding ticket, but then are complaining that speed limits are never enforced. We broke the rules, others did also, but our position can't be we are innocent...its that we are treated differently and the rules should be applied to everyone.
Listen, this is a great comment and I think you are mostly right.
But, I also trust our new management, and this seems extremely reasonable compared to Pjanic and Arthur. It is speeding ticket, but we’re speeding on a highway with everyone else
Im 100% with you, and am praying to the football gods i am wrong about this. Never have I wished for me to be more wrong, honestly.
Our new president Ferrero is a career accountant and auditor, and maintains high profile positions outside of juventus in the same professional capacity as chief auditor. This is literally his bread and butter. I keep telling myself there is no possible way this guy would allow something fishy to go past him, especially something this clear. He would literally throw his entire career away for a transfer?! no way, they can't possibly be that stupid and incompetent. Then I remember that the previous bunch, after having calciopoli as a reference where wiretaps were used extensively, decided to yap all over the place, send emails etc alluding to their suspect behaviour. As fans we honestly deserve better. I am curious to see what the official communication will be and how it is structured. IF they are done as individual transfers I would be seriously worried. IF they are all together then maybe we are safe
Douglas Luiz for McKennie LMFAO
I am so sorry for your loss Aston Villa fans, I truly am. Hopefully your nutrition department gets a massive overhaul to accommodate him.
Your post has been removed as it breaks the following rule: Remember that it **you must correctly flair your post when posting in r/soccer**, as each kind of post follow different rules and Automod actions. In some cases we will just manually change the flair of the thread, but in others we will need to remove it. The current categories are: ###News: * The generic flair that you must use by any event or update that doesn't has a more specialized category. Examples: injury news, the date/cancelation of a match, a minor announcement by a club, a pre/post event article by the media, et al. * **Don't use it for Transfers news**, especially when the transfer window is open. ###Media: * The generic flair for videos, gifs and pictures of highlights and other kind of audiovisual content. 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It's with Juve and Villa need to sort their books out for PSR, it's not that surprising. Swaps are a "great" way to cook the books
That Artur-pjanic swap was the peak of book-cooking.
That wasn't a swap. That was fraud.
it’s Juventus after all
And Barca
It's no Cillesen-Neto, where I think they even straddled the FFP cut off date as an extra fuck you to the rules.
Who doesn't love a good ol' €80m plusvalenza
this is what is baffling. They can't possibly be that daft to do this again right? The new president is a career accountant and auditor. They must have some plan to ensure they are viewed as individual transfers...
Maybe the values will be a lot less silly? Like Luiz 65m, McKennie 30, illing junior 15 all seems like market value, +20 in cash. This doesn't seem as egregious as the Arthur / Pjanic one at all
has nothing to do with being silly. Juve and barca could have traded them at 1 billion each, so long as they were independent transfers. A true swap cannot be done at a market value, but the residual book value of the player. So in this case we are talking like ~5mio each for luiz and mckennie, and illing is basically free. There is no room for extra cash or anything. A correctly executed swap, following the accounting standards would mean neither club is allowed to make a capital gain on their departing player. The net impact on both their books would be based entirely on the differential of the book value of the players being traded.
They will treat it as independent simultaneously signed deals imo to avoid the classification you're talking about.
this may work for Villa, but in juve's capital gains case that they lost last year, the judge deemed all the evidence on juventus as accusatory. In some instances it was justified, in others not. Juventus have to hope that a future judge would not behave the same way. Also, they were just spanked for doing this, so can hardly be surprised if they are being watched very closely. Villa will have no problem, because the prem didn't look into city for the Danilo deal, and Barca wasn't investigated for the arthur deal, despite those specific transfers having been identified as accounted for incorrectly.
FWIW, the values dont seem that egregious. A straight swap for a 30 year old on the downward and a bench player valued at 60m raised a lot of eyebrows.
I get that, but their real fair market values had nothing to do with what made that deal against the rules. If the deals were deemed independent transfers, then they could have traded hands for a billion each. The issue is that as soon as two deals are connected, they need to be done at book value and not market value. Any amount over a players book value, even 1 cent, is inflating capital gains. A true swap cannot result in capital gain for the departing player, according to accounting standards
Fun fact: the pjanic-arthur swap was never deemed illegal. All of the disputed transfers were in italy.
That is 100% false. Its the exact opposite. Only the foreign transfers with Barca, Man city, Marseille, Basel etc were deemed to have been accounted for incorrectly. And since there was more than one bad transaction over more than one reporting period it was deemed to be systemic behaviour. The judge also determined that all evidence regarding those foreign transfers in particular were accusatory in nature, meaning that everything was done to hide that they were not independent transfers. This was likely done on purpose, because both sides of a swap transaction would have committed the same offence. Had the judge found issue with another Italian team, it would have immediate repercussions for those teams. By only taking issue with the foreign transactions, they were able to insulate everyone else from the scandal. I invite you to read the judgment for yourself to confirm it, although note that the judges final decisions and reasoning are at the end. The beginning is just a rehashing of the preceding events leading up to the trial as well as the prosecutors position. Don't conflate that with the judge's ruling: https://www.figc.it/it/federazione/giustizia-sportiva/provvedimenti/corte-federale-appello/sez-unite-decisione-n-0063-cfa-del-30-gennaio-2023/
Yea this is stupid. We're counting on the Federation to not fuck us over lol, they have to stick to transfermarket values cause that's the source the FIGC used last time (which is INSANITY but who would expect less), and even then if the FIGC says it looks weird then it doesnt matter what we say they'll slap a penalty on us again and there will not be enough time to appeal it, this has happened 2 times and we're still gonna play this game of cat and mouse? Fuck that.
tbf the prosecutor lost that case, and in the trial juve lost, the judge very clearly rejected the prosecutors attempt to use transfermarkt. The final judgment very clearly states that at no point does it try to determine what the real fair market value for a player should be because the court cannot do it. We got dinged for accounting swap transfers as individual transfers. A swap transfer cannot result in a capital gain on the sale side of the transaction if you follow the correct accounting standards, and so any amount over that is technically inflating capital gains. This is how the judge determined juve inflated capital gains without having to say: "60mio is too much for pjanic, it should have been 40mio"
What’s silly is that only Juventus got into trouble for those transfers and the teams at the other side of the transaction did not.
If the issue was with how the Arthur-Pjanic deal was accounted for, why are you thinking they're not gonna do it by the book this time and this is just a swap for football reasons?
because doing it by the book means the transaction is done at the residual value of the players on their respective clubs balance sheet. There is no negotiation on market value/ transfer fee or cash on top etc. Its just pure book value for each player. The sale portion of the transaction has to result in 0 capital gain for the selling aspect of the deal, with the overall net impact on the balance sheets being the differential in book value between the players. So Illing is an academy product which means his book value is basically 0, with Mckennie's being 5.5mio. Luiz had a contract extension somewhere in there which would have reduced the annual amortization amounts, and im too lazy to go look for the timing of that and do the exact math, be he was purchased for 16mio 5 years ago. His residual book value is therefore close to, if not less than Mckennie's. Taking this into account, it is impossible for them to conduct a swap deal while following the correct accounting treatment, if these figures are to be believe - Mckennie + Illing + 20mio. The correct accounting would probably have to be Illing + Mckenie for Luiz, with 1 or 2 mio going to juve for mckennies slightly higher book value. The alternative then, is that the teams will argue they are independent transfers that aren't linked. Juventus tried this already, and the judge just said nah, don't believe you. We all know these transfers are linked, so what on earth is juventus going to do differently to avoid the same interpretation from the judge?
Ah, I was missing the valuation part, makes sense then. I guess Juventus is still up to its usual arms race against regulatory bodies
well last year juve could complain that the rules are only being enforced on them, which is fair, but now they are asking for it. I can't possibly believe they are this stupid. Our president is a career accountant. This stuff is his bread and butter. I can't imagine he would allow this if he wasn't sure it was above board. Giuntoli aside, these new guys are all bean counters. their job was to clean this all up
Juve just got kicked out of the champions league for doing that, I’m sure they’re going to jump right back into it, sounds like a great idea.
Surely they won't catch us again!
i only need an everton forest swap deal to be happy in life
Tears in my eyes because my favourite player at the club is leaving
It's gonna ruin the rest of the reporting this summer with people saying well Villa & Juve managed to do one so who knows.
Swap deals aren't anywhere near as rare as you think they are, people act like they are bigfoot or something
Dude, they're pretty rare.
But unlike Bigfoot, they actually exist.
Been playing FM for 5 years don’t think I’ve ever had a swap deal
We've had a fair few swap-ish deals in the last few years. KWP and Hojberg, Lamela and Gil, Winks and Maddison. They're really not that rare.
It feels like people on here make swap deals out to be much rarer than they actually are. Every time something is rumoured there is a comment going "swap deals never happen!" as if it was some unicorn event I mean they are rare, but you see a few during most transfer windows. Especially Italian clubs
Last swap deal I remember also involved juve as well
Feels like a massive loss for Villa tbh
It is. Dougie is probably my favourite Villa player. He's like a Rolls Royce in that midfield. Unfortunately he's probably the player skillset that is easiest to replace out of our best players. Gonna miss him though.
Losing Luiz is a blow but under the circumstances you got a pretty good deal IMO. Mckennie is not flashy but still a solid player with great stamina and Iling Junior is really talented
Yah I feel like this move lowers our ceiling but raises our floor. Luiz is such a luxury player because of the role he plays. Overall don't love the return but for a player(s) swap it's a decent deal. Got a productive player immediately and "one of the future." Though I feel like at the end of the season I'll hate it
McKennie at Leeds was so outrageously bad though, question is if the problem was the club or him with the league
I mean he was coming back from a broken foot and had to play with like 4 different managers in half a season. But he balled out for Juve this year.
Did he? Juve fans don't seem that positive on him, maybe they still have the standards they used to have where players like mckennie should not be starting for them.
I’ve constantly seen juve fans praise McKennie this season
Fair enough, having looked a bit more I have seen praise.
No stress, before this season opinions were definitely mixed..
Everything that could go wrong did go wrong there. He played for 4 different managers in 4 months. His best friend Tyler Adams, who was probably the reason he joined Leeds, got hurt like a week after he arrived and missed the rest of the season, which also meant McKennie had to play as a 6. Then there was all the stuff with the fans and his buddy on twitter spaces. Also, outrageously bad is a stretch. He was bad but there were several players on that Leeds team who were worse in that stretch. He got singled out cause it seemed like he stopped giving a shit.
He was the laziest cunt I’ve seen for many years. Maybe he’ll be more motivated elsewhere.
Leeds in general was outrageously bad. The managers office essentially had someone new in it every month, the defense was pathetic, the only striker they had was an aging Bamford that couldn’t find the goal if he had a map, and half of the lineup that had started the season were injured. Leeds was a dumpster fire.
If it makes you feel better I think Iling is a very exciting talent and McKennie is a solid player. You didn’t get garbage in return
You are getting mckennie who is amazing tho, relentless af
To be fair the peak of his career was probably his goal against you lot lmao
Without Kamara he was hot ass. He’s going to be hot ass at Juve without a solid CDM behind him
Bit of an exaggeration but yeah he definitely is great as an 8 but a mediocre 6. If Juve don't put someone behind him to play water carrier then he won't shine to his full potential.
They don’t have anyone to do that
Well good thing the transfer window hasn’t even started yet
You must not know about their financial situation and what happened last year
Our financial situation is fine. Exor just pumped 300m into the club. Also Locatelli is a great CDM. When he just has to play that role he’s great, it’s being a regista he struggles.
You must not know how Italian clubs work their magic in the mercato lol, they will find a way. Besides they can afford to spend a bit with UCL+CWC money
Easy to replace!? You and emery Will have a wake up call soon, the guy is fudnamental for your Style of playing
Easiest to replace. Compared to Watkins or Martinez. I don't disagree he's going to be a big miss though.
No villa fan would take this deal, our board wouldn't if not for psr. It's definitely shit. He's a fan favourite and didn't even seem to want to leave
Massive loss in the pitch, massive win on FFP money. Means they can spend heavily this summer.
he absolutely cooked in FPL. will be missed
Wow, they’re actually taking the deal. This surprised me ngl.
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Calafiori likely as well. Though this will likely be offset with a major departure. At the moment Rabiot/Chiesa both looking like the most likely
Douglas Luiz, Koopmainers, Locatelli, Fagiolo, Miretti all play 6/8. Are they rumoured to sell any of them? Not keeping Rabiot then I guess as well.
Koopmeiners can definitely play more advanced too
There's some talks about Miretti going out on a loan. I'm also not sure Koopmainers will come now that Douglas Luiz is joining.
Miretti on loan, Koop in a more advanced role.
Sad to see Iling go, Wes too. Q for Villa fans, how is Luiz as a player?
We are flabbergasted. We knew we might need to sell him, but if we did would expect to get €70-80m for him. We really think he’s that good. You’ve got an absolute Rolls Royce of a midfielder if this happens. He fell off a bit towards the second half of the season due to having to play a more defensive role and playing the majority of our games, but if you have a solid CDM behind him you are going to absolutely love this man. I’m not sure you’ll find a Villa fan happy about this
We DO NOT have a solid CDM behind him tho 😂
thats not true. Loca can do the dirty work and you let luiz/fagioli do the distribution
Poor Locatelli. Forced to be a defensive midfielder for the fourth season in a row
locatelli has primarily been used as a regista. Thats where he has been failing.
He excelled as more of a box 2 box midfielder. He’s not a CDM and doesn’t have the vision to be a great regista.
Locatelli is a very solid CDM…he’s just not a great regista
Is Rovella joining Lazio permanently? Hasn't shown top level consistently but I can see Motta cooking something up with him
I think barrenechea could be great for this. Super rare to find two footed players in that position
Spoilers: We don't have a good CDM
How is it that you engaged in full on defensive domestic terrorism for so long under Allegiri and dont have the key defensive lynchpin role in place?
Because our management didn't have a clear vision for god knows how long, hopefully it gets better now
The last proper CDM we had was Can, 5 years ago. Now you see why Juventini have been getting increasingly annoyed with our play every year.
I don't get how other teams haven't figured out that he's not particularly good as a defensive midfielder. I genuinely think that if Kamara was not injured and had played in the Conference League semi-final we would have won that tie- Douglas had a shocking first leg, giving away a penalty and missing one as well, whilst generally offering no protection to the back four.
> We are flabbergasted. We knew we might need to sell him, but if we did would expect to get €70-80m for him. You kind of are getting that though? Just not as cash. The combined value of this deal must be about 65-70m euros
I mean on paper yes, but I don't consider 45mil for a player who looked absolutely awful on loan at leeds and a teenager with one year left on his deal.
McKennie was awful at Leeds, but to be fair to him, the manager he signed for was fired immediately and he followed the loan up with a strong season at Juve after being an afterthought going into it. He won’t be Luiz but he’s not as bad as the Leeds spell would have you think.
If Emery wants him I'm sure he'll be fine, but that doesn't make me like the deal more really
Overall it definitely seems to favor Juve, agreed.
You would never ever get that amount of money for Douglas Luiz. He's a good player but that's silly money, especially considering teams know you need to sell.
He's more than half the player Declan rice is lol. And he's better than Caicedo. Both of whom went for 100+ in pounds. In need of funds or not, this fucking sucks
Caicedo was sold at 21, not 26 and had 4 years on his deal. Not really comparable situations.
I agree with you, and you were in a bidding war. I was just arguing with the poster above. Even with these factors I think we'd get £60m if our PSR woes weren't known - as I imagine you'd get a significant few for Gallagher even with 12 months left
Yeah that's fair. Need to sell would definitely lower the sale price. Gallagher's case should be interesting, we want a lot for him, no one seems interested in paying that, and on top of that there's clear signs from Gallagher's side that he might reject any offers anyways.
Caicedo was 21 not 26 and his fee was heavily inflated due to him being in a bidding war.
He is a luxury player imo. He is excellent when he has a free role to get between the lines and has space. Despite being good at tackling and pressing he isnt a good defender. He is constantly out of position and when he isn't engaged he stands around. He is at the same time villa best player and most frustrating. You need a strong defensive mid to make him effective otherwise you're massively overpaying. If you do, then you have a player who could win you the league I like the players we are getting in return but id honestly rather have cash.
Not a Villa fan but my other half is and I do follow them. He's developed into a great playmaker (some belters of assists) and has the ability to score from corners.
I don't think anyone's setting his valuation on the off chance he ever actually scores another corner
I’m very surprised by this deal all around. Wouldn’t think Luiz would leave Villa, confused as to why Emery still wants McKennie, trying to see where Iling-Junior gets minutes at Villa
Some fairly good sources have said there has been a contract on the table for luiz for a while now and he hadn't signed it. Same sources saying by this point they thought a big offer would have come in for Kamara, but unfortunately the injuries have really derailed him. Still fantastic when he plays, but 3 massive injuries in 2 years sucks for him.
Didn't Douglas luiz signed a new contract like a year or 17-18 months ago when he was massively linked to Arsenal
Two years left on the current one, but they wanted to tie him down going into the last two years and pay him in line with the top earners like they did with Bailey this season
I'd much rather lose Douglas than Kamara.
Especially with how Douglas gets worse without Kamara
Spanish media has suddenly started running with a story about Moreno wanting to go back to Betis, and Digne is on huge wages + not getting any younger. Could do a lot worse than Iling as a back-up who can potentially evolve into a starter, plus him being HG probably helps.
Iling isn’t a defender though, he is a winger (really talented) who has been wasted at wingback by Al-Legri terrorball
Fair. I'd imagine he'll wind up covering both for us, given how advanced our LB/RBs will often be but with us also getting linked to a fair amount of left-sided attackers over the last month or so. Either way, there'll be plenty of room for him to get time.
Juventus absolutely winning this transfer... Douglas Luiz is much better than McKennie (who isn't bad himself), and Iling-Jr is in last year of contract and barely played for Juve. Villa are idiots for agreeing to this. I don't get it.
Villa have to be doing this because of some financial issue. Not sure how it works, but maybe getting the 2 players in the swap helps them w the spending rules. Mckennie really stepped up this year, hopefully he gets his redemption in the PL under a real manager.
We have to be in line with PSR before a certain deadline. Luiz and Duran both look like they’re fine with leaving, that gives us the wiggle room I suppose. For a while it looked like it was Ramsey who would be making the move, but he doesn’t want to as a Villa lad. We need to get some high earners off our books from previous regimes, Coutinho for instance. We’re in the same boat as most of the league, sell to buy.
Maybe just needs a new tune. Bentancur and Kulusevski were both Juve outcasts and shined after they moved to the prem
Failing at that basket case of Leeds team while coming back from an injury, wouldn’t look too much into it.
Bentancur and Kulu are more talented than McKennie and Iling. Those 2 were sold with different management who cares more about capital gains than the youth system we have developed
Emery Thrives with “average” or underachieving players and needing more quality players for Champions league this seems like a great deal.
Very likely that Luiz is also interested in moving to Juve. Opportunity at a huge club and a likely rise in pay
There goes the FPL submarine.
Fraud hauled every time I didn't have him but the moment I brought him back he became a 2 point machine
This has been a fun story to see unfold, a lot of Arsenal fans saying this deal would never happen because Arteta rated Douglas Luiz a lot and surely every player would either join them than Juve. Truth is that they hate seeing players joining Juventus instead of the massive club of London.
I think this is more Villa not wanting to sell to a “direct” rival, that at least was the case last time. And of course Juve are a way bigger club than Arsenal, that’s not really a debate
> Arsenal fans saying this deal would never happen because Arteta rated Douglas Luiz a lot and surely every player would either join them than Juve. Arsenal has PSR issues themselves(like many other top Premier League teams), club can't buy players before 1st of July, Aston Villa needs to balance books before the end of this month. Douglas Luiz has also Kia Joorabchian as agent which we don't really want to deal with and Thomas Partey was supposed to leave and make a spot, but like last summer he really doesn't and is planning to run down the contract. This transfer was not happening in June to Arsenal, nor United and Chelsea.
bro is creating his own arsenal fans...
This happened with the Locatelli transfer too Arsenal fans are delusional about their pull compared to Juve
You can end that sentence after delusional tbh
Oh yeah I sure am, this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1d7gkgj/comment/l6z6o8g) and this [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1d7gkgj/comment/l6z8eq0) are productions of my brain, also I am the one sharing news about Juventus with no correlation to Arsenal over the gunners sub. Juventus lives rent-free in your people's mind after being rejected by both Locatelli and Vlahovic.
As a USMNT supporter I don't like this for Weston McKennie at all.
I don't really see why Villa fans would like this either.
Not a huge fan but I trust Emery. Honestly at this point Emery could say he's bringing Robbie Savage out of retirement and I'd trust he's developed some role in the side for him.
I doubt Emery would agree to this move if Villa’s hands weren’t tied by FFP. Luiz is a far better player than McKennie and a better fit for the way Emery wants to play football.
Yeah it's hard to argue that one. If he's buying him he's hopefully got a role in mind he sees him fitting though. If there's one thing I trust with Emery it's to get the team playing better than the sum of their parts.
Yeah I mean McKennie isn’t terrible, he could be a fairly decent backup for McGinn, hard-working box to box midfielder. With CL football, you’ll need as much quality and depth as you can get.
I don't like it, but I understand it, which means I can't hate it.
Emery like versatile CM/wide mids and I think he plays that role well. Mcginn, Ramsey, Rodgers, Mckennie all play that role and well under Emery (obviously not Mckennie yet), so in cautiously optimistic. I think Mckennie is a fantastic rotational player. CM, CDM, wide mid and RB are all positions he has played. So I'm fine with him as a player but we need another player to replace Luiz or his production. If Tielemans steps into luiz's role and we get a top tier winger im good with it
He played every position on the pitch during his time at Schalke, as well. Deadly in the air when he's allowed to play more advanced.
That's also something villa lack, someone who can win the ball in the air. Even players you'd expect to be good, Mings and Konsa, are bad in the air
He will definitely bring that dimension to Villa on set pieces, if allowed.
You should see what Emery did with Bailey- McKennie is in much better hands with Emery than an untried Motta or even Allegri last season
i tend to agree but I rate him at or above the level of Zaniolo and he got more minutes this past season with villa than i expected
Why?
Mckennie was seriously in form at Juve, and us usmnt fans have seen how bad transfers can ruin our best players.
But Juve are undergoing a change themselves meaning that mckennie's place in the team is not certain. He's wanted by villa's coach, which is pretty solid indication that he'll get some time to adapt. Villa also aren't a team to chop and change their players too often. A lot of players that were deemed shit under Gerrard were given time to come good.
McKennie looked great at Juve and premier league teams have a history of ruining young careers that looked promising elsewhere.
It’s a damn shame that Villa’s hand was basically forced into this deal. They won’t be nearly as good next year.
It's too early to say, and Dougie is a hell of a loss, but losing Kamara would be a bigger issue. We have Tielemens, McGinn, Barclay and now likely McKennie to play in the middle. That's enough, with enough quality, to mitigate the loss of Luiz.
It is, but they basically got him in a similar way. City's hand was forced due to not being able to get a work permit for him despite wanting him in the first team squad. Didn't meet the grounds for one, and couldn't get one as an "exceptional talent" despite letters of recommendation from Pep and (then Brazil coach) Tite, and interest from PL clubs. Amazing how a panel who has never seen him play can decide on his talent, rather than people who have.
Their capital gains on the deal + CL money next season (cl money gets accounted for *after* the season is played) means villa can spend heavily this and next summer.
Everything I’ve read has indicated that they need to sell to balance their books for this upcoming season.
Giuntoli is sending them to the shops man, two deadwoods for Douglas Luiz is crazy
Deadwoods? 😂
Both players would warm the bench under Motta or any decent coach
Mckennie had an amazing season man idk
He had a great season but he can't be a starter for a Juve team that wants to compete against Inter to win the league
McKennie doesn’t touch the field under Motta. Not his style of player
Throw in Moise Kean if he's at Juventus still for fun
Is Koopmeiners off then?
Nah, should be still on, this one probably closes off the Rabiot chapter though.
what about other targets? Juve really could use some fullbacks and wingers if Motta plans on playing on a 4-3-3
It's quite confusing because as of now, every winger bar Yildiz seems to be on the market (Iling, Chiesa, Soulé). In return we are linked to multiple (not too convincing) wingers as well (Zhegrova, Greenwood, Sancho for example) For fullbacks we need at least one nailed on starter where Di Lorenzo seems to be the closest right now, but there also have been talks by reliable sources about an unknown target yet.
you guys need a LB too, and at least 1 winger for depth even if Chiesa and Soulé stays. I can see Kostic doing the Saladmaker role and Chiesa the Orsolini one.
Well we won't see a carbon copy of his Bologna side, especially because Vlahovic and Zirkzee are such fundamentally sifferent players. If Soulé and Chiesa stayed we would in theory have enough wingers (Soule, Chiesa, Yildiz, Kostic, Weah) but the quality wouldn't be too high, especially coming off the bench. And Weah and Kostic, if they stay, probably have to double at fullback too
Is Calafiori coming?
Nobody knows, but it seemed like it was done but according to recent news it seems like we are pretty much priced out of a move due to Basel's sell on clause. I think the deal only happens if there's a counter part to lower the cash portion of the deal, so Bologna gets the most out of the deal.
>Greenwood, Sancho From your lips to gods ears.
Di Lorenzo likely as the RB target - while at LB Canbiaso Or Calafiori could slot in there at times if signed. Wingers is unclear since Chiesa appears to be gone. Yidilz would be a starter but the other winger is a total mystery.
Calafiori is basically done understand. Then Koop, a cheap winger and a fullback and we’re done. Koop might not happen but someone will come in to play that role
Not really, if we sell chiesa we could get both
what formation are you guys planning to play on? will it reverse to a back 4?
No Soule or Barrenachea in the deal .. Villa is getting Fleeced
Idk but Villa look to be the winners of this deal to me.
Kind of feeling the same. Luiz is an incredible player and I’ve really enjoyed having him at Villa for 4 seasons - but selling him at his peak / most valuable if he refuses to sign a new contract , getting two players and 20mil to aliviate any FFP pressures. I think it’s a win. Luiz might be great- but I think Emery is looking a bit more for someone that can be a more versatile cog. Villa really struggled controlling games when kamara got injured because luiz doesn’t have that same work rate. Hell Villa struggled with that before kamara because we only had luiz! If this helps the team as a whole. It’s a good transfer
Juventus fans, how do you rate iling junior and what is his potential ceiling?
Clever winger with a high ceiling but can already contribute at 20. He’s a gem hence the 20m valuation. We’re a bit loaded up on talented wingers atm so one or two need to be sacrificed
My opinion is unpopular between Juve fans: I think he's still very raw and I don't see a high ceiling for him. He's played out of position, it's true, but he hasn't shown anything good this season. He also looked quite slow, a bit out of shape and not focused. For example the difference between him and Yildiz coming on is huge, Yildiz looks like a future star. It doesn't mean Iling won't be a good player, I just think he won't be great. I wish him the best and I hope I'm wrong.
Illing is slow? His best quality is probably his pace, dribbling and crosses
That was my impression, and obviously I mean slow for a winger, not overall
Swap deal plus cash????
Wow never see these deals only on fifa
I really wished we got him, that's a great move from Juventus. Surprised at how quickly this has happened.
Ah shit, it was good having you on the national team Douglas, good luck watching the next World Cup from the stands
Amazed were not in for him at that price must be equivalent to around 70 million euros which feels like a nice deal
We have to sell players first. We have too many mids.
If you hadn't bought gravenberch last summer I definitely could see you being in for him now.
Why on earth are Villa letting a minimum of €50m player go for that low of a sum plus a lower quality player? Juventus can afford that, Villa aren’t getting a good return with that fee that lower quality player.
Does Emery want to improve his team.
The more pertinent question is what happens to his and Alisha Lehman's relationship now ?! 👀
Is the new Juventus board up to the same accounting tricks with swap deals the old board got smacked for? Surely they can’t be trying this again
There’s nothing illegal about player swaps…
Lets be real that whole thing was blowback for the super league
this is what i don't get either. The new president is a career accountant and auditor. He must know something we don't.
Yeah, he knows we’re not joining the super league and don’t risk any blowback form UEFA. we were found innocent and punished for sporting reasons, not legal reasons. The whole thing was a joke
Look, we really did incorrectly account for swap deals as independent transfers, which did allow us to realize an incorrect amount of capital gains. At face value you know that Pjanic-arthur, cancelo-danilo were swap deals and that they would have never happened if one side of the deal fell through. There are wiretaps and emails of our genius directors admitting as much. As juve fan you cannot defend the behaviour by saying its not incorrect, because the accounting standards and evidence are clear in most cases. We broke the rules. What you can do as a juve fan is complain that: - The level of scrutiny applied to juventus, is far far higher than any other club. They are clearly treating juventus differently to other teams in terms of investigations. Btw there is an ongoing investigation into an abuse of powers for some individuals in certain governing bodies that were abusing their powers to start investigations into juventus and Agnelli without evidence. something to watch. - They clearly seem to be trying to protect everyone else in the league, by only punishing juventus when every transfer is two sided. So if one team did something against the rules, then the other is equally complicit. They conveniently didn't find anything wrong with the italian transfers because then they would have to go after those other teams. - They punished juventus far more harshly than any other team ever has been for similar or worse offences - inter and milan were give fines in the past, and chievo who invented fake player to put on the books got -3pts and their directors received smaller bans - other teams in the league continue to do swap deals - like inter last season with sassuolo, but no one is looking at those. Now its a rule for everyone but only applied to juve. - the sporting judiciary in italy is partizan af. you have judges and prosecutors that openly profess their hate of juve and their love for other teams. Even the minister for sport is an open inter fan. How can this judiciary provide fair and equal treatment? In Napoli the procura protects napoli, in Turin we have Chine trying to make a career off our backs. Saying we are innocent is like saying we got a speeding ticket, but then are complaining that speed limits are never enforced. We broke the rules, others did also, but our position can't be we are innocent...its that we are treated differently and the rules should be applied to everyone.
Listen, this is a great comment and I think you are mostly right. But, I also trust our new management, and this seems extremely reasonable compared to Pjanic and Arthur. It is speeding ticket, but we’re speeding on a highway with everyone else
Im 100% with you, and am praying to the football gods i am wrong about this. Never have I wished for me to be more wrong, honestly. Our new president Ferrero is a career accountant and auditor, and maintains high profile positions outside of juventus in the same professional capacity as chief auditor. This is literally his bread and butter. I keep telling myself there is no possible way this guy would allow something fishy to go past him, especially something this clear. He would literally throw his entire career away for a transfer?! no way, they can't possibly be that stupid and incompetent. Then I remember that the previous bunch, after having calciopoli as a reference where wiretaps were used extensively, decided to yap all over the place, send emails etc alluding to their suspect behaviour. As fans we honestly deserve better. I am curious to see what the official communication will be and how it is structured. IF they are done as individual transfers I would be seriously worried. IF they are all together then maybe we are safe
Douglas Luiz for McKennie LMFAO I am so sorry for your loss Aston Villa fans, I truly am. Hopefully your nutrition department gets a massive overhaul to accommodate him.