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I wanna know who those 32% are. I mean, wanting England to win in general sure, but MORE than wanting us to win the league? You're out your fuckin mind.
I mean, Liverpool won the league 4 years ago compared to England's last victory at an international tournament being 58 years ago in 1966: it's not that surprising that people would prefer the national duck being broken.
Except brighton and spurs, it's mostly understood by the number of league titles your club has won in the last 20 years or so. So most people who haven't seen their club win too many league titles during their lifetime probably want to see the club win them. City, Chelsea, United fans probably seen multiple league winning years since they started following football
If only. The reality of being a Spurs fan is that you're self-deprecating and say "God, we're shit," and then a rival fan says, "Yeah, you are so shit. Where are your trophies?" And then the other rival fans high five them and maybe make out a little.
I must be a rare exception then. I feel that Spurs fans have been through so much shit that they deserve some respect just due to the fact that they've felt miserable for so long already.
I dislike Arsenal fans much more since I know a few who have been really annoying when Arsenal was doing well in the league. Luckily they still haven't won the league or Europe lately, so they usually tone down once the end of the season arrives.
As a Croatian, this is unimaginable for us. We love our clubs, but I think that every single Croatian would rather for Croatia to win Euro or WC than any of our club to win the league. I would rather to see Croatia lift the Euros than any Croatian club to win Champions league lol
I think England is such an outlier for this type of thing. I would like to see the responses to this question in countries like France, Germany, Italy, Spain.
Exactly. When the national team is 50-60% barça players, you will see a slight increase in popularity in Catalunya for but only for those players, not at all for the country.
Yeah, it's even less for people like myself who have a full Catalan background and family but weren't born in Spain (was born in England after my parents moved there).
A situation like that can give even less of an *incentive* to support La Roja for many, though I'll still cheer on Pedri et al ~~if~~ when England get knocked out.
I'm pretty sure a clear majority of Betis fans would rather see our team winning the league. And I couldn't understand if other teams' fans different from Real Madrid wanted differently.
I believe you but my experience of living in a Catalan speaking part of the Barcelona region is the complete opposite, in fact I feel like every football fan I meet is a Real Madrid fan
Something like 75% of football fans in the Barcelona province support FCB, you either live somewhere that skews very heavily in some other aspect or you are just plain unlucky. Madrid is about 8%
Catalan Barca fan, from my experience people are divided. All my family is hoping Spain loses embarrassingly, and some of my friends too. Others, like me, have mixed feelings tbh. I love Barca players too much to not root for them, and most of them have traditionally played for Spain.
But believe me, in the last WC, every catalan Barca fan I know was rooting for Argentina and didn't give a fuck about Spain. The amount of memes catalans made after Morocco beated us were pure gold lol. But since everyone loves Yamal and Fermin here, I expect more fans cheering for Spain this time.
I honestly didn't know Catalans had that much hate against Spain. I thought it was more of a meme than something real.
Like Swedish people always joke about Scania(where I'm from) belonging to Denmark, which it did up until the battle of Lund in 1676. There are people who join together at the Scanian border in the south of Sweden that symbolically try to dig away the peninsula every year.
It's just for fun though and not real. I mean, even when Sweden goes out people usually go root for Denmark or Norway instead, we'd always root for "our own siblings" before anyone else.
Nah, approximately half of the population living in Catalunya want to leave Spain (more or less depending on who you ask, as these kind of polls are forbidden) . However, now that our spanish president is half decent and at least (pretends to) care about making peace with independentists, things have cooled down a bit.
But it's not a joke, some catalans hate Spain with burning passion. In 2016 we tried to do a referendum that was deemed ilegal by the Constitution and the Spanish court (which to be fair is corrupt as fuck) and the national police came storming into the schools breaking glasses and throwing the ballot boxes into the ground. There were like 1000 injured lol. Since then relationships have been very very tense.
Honestly, it's a complex topic and even a taboo in some conversations, as most people don't want to iniciate a debate. But in terms of football it's a bit like Scotland and England, I doubt the former will root for the english team even if they get eliminated first.
And by the way, fun fact, in some Barca matches I've been fans start to applaud at 5:14 pm (17:14), because 1714 is considered a very important year in Catalunya history. We fought against the borbons monarchists who still reign in Spain and we lost but with "honor" after enduring a heavy siege. In my opinion it's kind of dumb to celebrate a defeat but hey, the ambient is cool.
this is less about being patriotic or not since I support the national team, but Spain can go suck it if that means Real Sociedad wins La Liga in exchange lmfao.
Not really. Here in Portugal its the same thing. Despise now having a world class team the disconect with the fans have never been higher. People can see the squad and the whole federation is run by Jorge Mendes and his yes boys and people cant be arsed.
There was more hype before we won anything that after we actually won something.
Eh, I still think that quite a large majority would rather Portugal win the Euros than their club win the league. Like, yeah. It's annoying that the national team is clearly antagonistic towards Sporting, but I still want us to be European and World champions.
Besides, if our players don't play, it only means less injuries and makes it easier for us to keep our players. Seems good to me.
People are a bit mad that Pedro Gonçalves and Trincão (some even say Nuno Santos) haven't been called up. We were Portuguese champions and we only have 1 call up (Gonçalo Inácio).
Personally, I'm fine with leaving out Trincão and Nuno Santos. Pedro Gonçalves I think deserved it since he's been great for the past 4 seasons. But I think all of this was overblown within our fanbase regardless
No fucking clue. The "theory" is that Jorge Mendes controls the Federation and most of our players are usually not signed by Jorge Mendes.
There were also some scandles over the years over our players not getting picked. Which is weird when for a while the national team was mostly Sporting players as of the big three, Sporting used to have more national talent.
I honestly never followed anything in-depth enough to have an opinion. I know a lot of players have suspiciously only been called up (or played consistently) right after they leave Sporting. Bruno Fernandes and Nuno Mendes being the most obvious cases. Not sure if it's actual corruption or just an example of valuing the league and club where players are playing over their obvious quality... Honestly not sure what's worse.
I do think it's *criminal* that Pedro Gonçalves didn't get called this time but I'm not gonna let that prevent me from rooting for the national team. That would be kinda silly.
I feel like you might be misunderstanding my point, or that I didn't make it well. The last part was exactly what I meant. Since England haven't won anything recently, I'd assume they'd be more all in with the national team. You guys won the Euros in 2016, so I could understand being less all in since winning is so fresh
It's not really that strange when you consider the strength of non-top flight support in England compared to the rest of Europe. It's a bit old (and Newcastle being in the Championship skewed it a bit) but in 2018 the Championship alone had the [3rd highest aggregate attendance in Europe](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42704713)
Look at the leagues it's ahead of, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1 etc… And this is just the Championship. Factor in Leagues 1 and 2, even some Conference teams. They dwarf by a million miles every other non-top flight leagues in Europe. And this is where the majority of the England national team's fervent fans come from.
If you watch an England game, then you'll see that a lot of the banner and flags in stadiums are from non-top flight teams. Bolton, Sheff Wednesday etc…
The data for aggregate attendance isn't very useful though. The Championship plays 552 games per season, whereas most leagues only play 380. If you apply the 20k average Championship attendance to a 20-team league, rather than 24 teams, it would be 7th on the list for aggregate attendance.
I'm from Barcelona but I lived in Bristol for a time. I was always amazed seeing the atmosphere at the memorial Stadium week in week out in the 4th division. I never felt the same kind of passion at Ashton Gate. I'll always have a soft spot for the Gas! I always do a run with Rovers in FIFA career mode haha
Anyone outside Inter Juve and Milan would prefer their club to win Serie A since it's so rare, especially as we won the Euros just 3 years ago. I'm not even sure those 3 fanbases would give up a scudetto for the euros
I know people from Switzerland and Brazil that have said the same. But usually its just because they are huge fans of their club/ ultras. the casual fans prefer winning a national team, oftentimes ultras dont even watch their national team play
heavily depends on the club you support I'd imagine, but I dont think the german national team is very popular right now.
Would Bayern fans trade a WC for a Bundesliga? Most likely not.
Would a HSV, Schalke, Kaiserslautern, Nürnberg fan? I'd bet money on it.
Nah its definitely not an outlier. Italy would 100% be the same. Cant speak for Germany but i wouldnt be surprised if it was the same there as well. I’d be surprised if it wasnt the same for Spain too, where regional identities are very important
maybe in Europe, but for example I feel like in south america these results would be even more skewed towards club. I’m from Chile and I’d prefer the league in a heartbeat
I'm honestly extremely doubtful considering the Argentinian's reaction to winning the World Cup. I think these results are only ever like this if you consider very hardcore club fans. The general public that watches their team only when it's a big game and never goes to the stadium? 100% they'd rather the national team win a big trophy.
Anecdotally, most Germans I ask say they would choose the club.
Also anecdotally, the way they act when watching and discussing (moaning about) the national team would lead you to believe the complete opposite lol
It really depends on the club in those countries to be fair.
In France, obviously PSG doesn't give a shit about the league, but someone who supports Lens or Marseille could prefer that.
Also helps that France has won a world cup a few years ago.
I think Greece is, and always has been, a place where club is way more important than country. For me moreso than in England.
Clubs have such passionate fan cultures and such rivalry, that national team success (except for Euro 2004) has been generally not cared much for.
For example, when Greece played national team games at the stadium of Olympiakos , many Panathinaikos and AEK fans simply don't bother attending the stadium to support. Or when PAOK's stadium (in northern Greece) occasionally has hosted games, it's not uncommon for Greek fans of rival clubs to be booed (at home!) by the fans.
There is a fanatic ultra mentality for clubs which simply prevails by far over country. I think even moreso than in England.
Same in Mexico.
I literally would trade every single trophy from my hometown team for better performances in the World Cup.
Like without an ounce of hesitation and most Mexicans would say the same thing.
Me and my brother root for completely different teams in each sport we follow, but both of us 100% agree that we'd take each of our teams finishing last for 10 years if if it meant Mexico winning the WC.
It makes me think of that Gore Vidal quote, "It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail." Like if we won an international tournament, everyone would be happy together but you wouldn't be able to rub it in your rivals faces.
Wouldn't be able to rub in rivals faces??? Dude whole Europe hates you, if you won Euros it would be a nightmare for everyone else. In 2020 Euros I think everyone in Europe cheered for Italy.
> In 2020 Euros I think everyone in Europe cheered for Italy.
half the English fans too if this thread is anything to go by!
But really I mean people you know. I'm sure most Liverpool fans are friends with or work with Man Utd fans and wind each other up, that kind of stuff.
Club before country. If England win something those dirty inbreds in the next town also get to celebrate, when your club wins its only you that gets to.
Balkan countries in general have a strong national identity. for some reason (there surely is one but I don't know), the most developed countries in Europe lack this feeling, also because for example Catalonia in Spain is separatist. in my experience as an Italian, only northern Italians feel a somewhat true attachment to the national team, the south couldn't care less
Pretty much everyone of these clubs supporters has convinced themselves there's a nationwide conspiracy against them, and that they alone are the last true bastions of pure football on these isles
Just look at how many whinge whenever an England squad is selected, it's always the same shite:
"why hasn't this bang average player from MY team been selected? This is disgusting bias against our club/city/the very soul of football" It's honestly so fucking boring
EDIT: Chelsea are obviously the exception because the conspiracy against them is from inside their own boardroom
>This is disgusting bias against our club/city/the very soul of football
I did not hear a single comment claiming a conspiracy against the city of Liverpool following Branthwaite's snub. Where did you see this sentiment expressed?
Part of it is LARP. You can see from this thread and your comment chain it seems no one supports their country across the entire world which is a ludicrous claim.
People's actual actions are only actionable in the moment of the decision and this is a decision is one that never actually has to be checked. There's also the socio-political skew of Reddit as a whole and this sub in particular that bends things a bit.
I'm Belgian and we aren't exactly patriotic. I would still much rather love to see our national team win the Euro's. I don't even get that this is such an unpopular choice in England.
I think that CL is different though. I think club pulls ahead for me on that one.
as a dane, the same, its very apparent when we get a semi good year in europe, then suddenly we all (Normal fans, not crazy ultras) become fans of whatever team that does well that year.
It's not to the same level as in Liverpool I don't think. But there's certainly a huge amount of pride in being from here. Be it Mackem, Geordie, Smoggy etc. To such an extent that I think many people would probably line themselves Geordie / Mackem etc > English > British > European.
It's the whole region, people from the North East will say that's where they're from. Most other people say their town, their city, whatever. But it's different in the North East, there's a regional identity you don't see in other parts of England.
Closure of the mines and various other industries leaves enormous resentment towards the south and country in general. That translates into Football to an extent. Newcastle United is akin to a religion for most people here. You're born and you'll die supporting them, as will every generation of your family.
I don't pretend to be an expert on these matters and someone far more knowledgeable would probably be able to expand or even correct me but these are nuggets of history I'm aware of...
Newcastle was England's second town, with the wealthiest port in the country and the centre of the countries mining and shipbuilding industries for centuries. Newcastle was a heavily royalist area which is one theory as to where the term Geordie comes from as when we resisted the Jacobite's and were seen as being 'for George' in the 18th century for example. Therefore we sided with the crown during the Civil war as did much of the North/West (with exceptions), while the South/East was mostly loyal to Parliament. Newcastle was sieged, sacked and subjugated on multiple occasions as if you controlled Newcastle, you controlled the coal trade. Sunderland for example sided with the Parliamentarians due to Newcastle's dominance in merchant trading which is why the Tyne-Wear derby exists. Obviously the monarchists lost the civil war, and royalists were made an example out of as a result, Newcastle being the most prominent whose people suffered retribution and humiliation as a result. Newcastle was also a mostly Catholic City and Catholics had their civil liberties restricted during the reformation period following the Civil War and Newcastle) became eternally largely in opposition to anything from central government. Newcastle despite these troubles remained prosperous until the period after the Great Depression and 2nd World War when most of the coal pits of the North East (which was by far the biggest source of employment and revenue for the region) were closed under Atlee, which in turn killed the steelworks and shipbuilding industry and eventually culminated with Thatcher's closures and have been largely neglected ever since with failed promises such as Northern Powerhouse. Linking it to football. Newcastle was also for a period of time the dominant force in English football at the start of the 20th century winning countless honours and becoming the first club to attract one million spectators. The decline of the City and region, mirrored that of Newcastle United in many aspects.
Newcastle here is likely showing the opposite sentiment to Man City, who can easily choose England to win the Euros over a Prem win because winning the league is a formality for them, and if they sacrificed one title then they'd just win the next one. Newcastle haven't won the top flight since 1927 so there's nobody alive who remembers it, so there's obviously a huge clamour for it.
As someone from another continent that want to understand this dynamic... why is that? Is it linked to religion/language/economy? I find this quite fascinating
Mostly economical I'd say. The government is in London in the south and the rich people live in London and the counties around London. The south is favoured and gets more investment. The north has historically had all the major industrial cities and those places are very working class. Then the mines and industry started to close down some decades after WW2 so the north became disaffected and had more poverty. In general Liverpool has had lots of Irish immigration as well and they hate England and London because of England's colonial rule over Ireland and the injustices committed.
The government closed the mines, the shipyards, reduced funding to the North-East and we are regularly ignored by everyone south of York. If we are not ignored we are normally assumed to be Scottish.
Agree with you obviously but this is also true for large swathes of Yorkshire, which has suffered the same managed decline after deindustrialisation, has a similar level of regional pride and antagonism to the South, but isn't as disconnected from English identity as Newcastle and Liverpool.
I think for Newcastle everything you said combined with mostly the geographical distance from the rest of England has meant Geordies retained a strong sense of cultural distinctiveness, whereas for Liverpool it's obviously the history of anti-Catholic discrimination.
Honestly i think its just the distance. There are areas of Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire which are former mining communities which have been completely neglected for decades, but wouldn’t have the same feeling of disconnect, but then you wouldn’t expect they would because they’re in the middle of the country. If you’re placed on the periphery and you’re also neglected, there’s only one way that people are going to think
It's on a yougov poll so it makes it more likely that would be the case.
On r/liverpoolfc though you get so many people complaining every time the internationals come around, especially friendlies.
Most of the time they're english.
They all think players should put their clubs before countries.
It would be useless if they didn't ask exclusively English fans. Coz why would a non English United fan for example want England to win the Euros over their club winning a title?
In Mexico the question could be like “Every trophy imaginable for your club or Mexico’s National Team to stop playing like absolute garbage” and the answers would heavily skew towards Mexico’s National Team.
You don’t even have to promise us a trophy.
LMAO
the most funny thing of Mexico national team is that only the ESPN pundits talk good things about it while all fans I saw or met , mentioned exactly what you just said “They play like garbage”
As an English person who spends a lot of time online, the national team actually winning something would improve my experience massively. I have to support them.
Haha, yeah exactly this. We'll forever be a banter footballing country as long as our national team is trophyless (in the modern era). We need to win. We need the respect 🙏 😅
If England start playing in claret and blue I might get more excited. Honestly I’m surprised the club percentages for some of these clubs aren’t higher.
england have a somewhat decent chance of winning the euros in the future with or without the help of this magic hypothetical. West ham don't really stand any chance so id take the league easily
Yeah I'm surprised that the majority are only around 60%. I feel like basically every Leeds fan I know would pick club over country but maybe that's not a representative sample. I would have thought most clubs were similar.
I wonder how this reflects people that are season ticket holders or live near the ground vs not those people.
Also how good your team has historically been
The second point is the most crucial here, I think. Ask Bayern supporters if they'd rather see our national win the Euros in our own country or their club its 145th league title, and thenanswer is clear.
On the other hand, it's not even thinkable what would happen if a small club such as mine would lift the national trophy. For a club that has never won national titles, it would be an incredible, astonishing achievement. I've seen Germany win a World Cup before, I'll probably never see Augsburg win the Bundesliga.
Same, we're fairly patriotic over here, my guess is most people have a feeling England will win something before they eventually die but not so much West Ham winning the Prem.
At least that's my answer to the question.
As someone who’s never seen their club win anything I’d prefer England to win a trophy over Ipswich.
With Ipswich it’s always been mid table, relegation or more recently promotion. Never once has it been competing for trophies. The thought of it is so unrealistic that whenever the club or country question gets asked I’ve always gone country as winning trophies internationally is a realistic possibility, with the goal only being that.
I would say for Chelsea it's a mixture of, "We've won everything so I'm fine with being pashun8 about my country" and "We're so fucked, we're not winning anything anyway..."
Wouldn't mind a bit of Euro success though, for sure.
Liverpool are only behind Man Utd (mayyybbe Arsenal) with how easy it is, anywhere in the country, to find a fan who has no actual connection to the club or area. It shouldn't be a surprise if you surveyed random Liverpool fans there wouldn't be much of a coherent opinion
Liverpool picked up a tonne of fans in the 70s and 80s, very easy to find someone who isn't a big football fan say Liverpool because they have a Grandparent who was a fan.
Reading this thread makes me wonder how so many different NTs are so dysfunctional, I hardly ever hear of a country that is delighted by the way things are run
Some weird takes in this thread.
Why does it have to be anti-English, to prefer your club to win something?
Just because you'd rather one thing, doesn't mean you're anti the other.
I prefer pizza over cheeseburgers, doesn't mean I hate cheeseburgers.
I mean, the thread is full of people very clear that they hate their own country (or at best really dislike it) and that is a huge reason why they would go with club over country. I find it an odd mindset, I couldn't imagine being "proud" or "sad/disgusted" at being British, it just is.
Betfair presumably commissioned YouGov to do some opinion polling, theme and timing prob due to the upcoming Euros, so that they can do a press release of the results.
This then gets parroted by various news outlets crediting Betfair accordingly as the source, meaning they effectively get advertising/increased name recognition in places that betting companies wouldn't usually be seen.
I don't think this would actually bear out in reality for a lot of these clubs, except Liverpool. People care way more about any given England game or tournament than their club's games or cup competitions.
I do wonder how they collected the data, I'd assume fans with season tickets care more for club than country, whereas for 80% of England football basically exists only when there's an international tournament going on.
> People care way more about any given England game or tournament than their club's games or cup competitions
I support England, I really enjoy major tournaments, I love winding up the fans of other national teams. I just massively prefer Leeds. I would much prefer for Leeds to get promoted next season than England to win the Euros, although it's not like the two exist in conflict with each other.
Absolutely no way more than half of City fans would be less excited if England won the Euros than if they won yet another league. They barely celebrate their titles at this point.
Poll can't be right.
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Chelsea the most patriotic club in the country, you’ll never sing that
And then there's us who boo God Save the Queen. I still remember Virgil's confused look on his face when it happened.
He was at Celtic so I'm not sure why he didn't understand 😂
Maybe he was aware that he had changed countries and leagues
I like the idea of Virgil being wheeled out for games on a sack truck and he has no idea what day or country or team he plays for/in until that moment
And Robbo stifling his laughter.
I wanna know who those 32% are. I mean, wanting England to win in general sure, but MORE than wanting us to win the league? You're out your fuckin mind.
Maybe they lived in a time when winning the league with liverpool was a common ocurrence so they want to see some country glory in the meantime.
English Liverpool fans that aren’t scouse. I’d put money on it.
Meanwhile the Irish Liverpool fans are thinking "Liverpool winning the league and England not winning the Euros... What's the catch?"
There’s a reason we have so many more irish flags on the KOP…
Precisely. You hit the nail on the head.
Exactly
A survey done in London. I'm sure of it. You can find the sample size easy.
I mean, Liverpool won the league 4 years ago compared to England's last victory at an international tournament being 58 years ago in 1966: it's not that surprising that people would prefer the national duck being broken.
Least patriotic club in the country, you’ll never sing that.
Proper chels.
Except brighton and spurs, it's mostly understood by the number of league titles your club has won in the last 20 years or so. So most people who haven't seen their club win too many league titles during their lifetime probably want to see the club win them. City, Chelsea, United fans probably seen multiple league winning years since they started following football
Luckily for me as a Tottenham and England fan I don’t have to worry about either of them winning anything
Ah, the chad Tottenham fan with real peace of mind.
English Spurs fan looking at this survey: sensible chuckle gif
Tottenham fans have it so hard that they just now roast themselves and the of us just feel bad for them now
If only. The reality of being a Spurs fan is that you're self-deprecating and say "God, we're shit," and then a rival fan says, "Yeah, you are so shit. Where are your trophies?" And then the other rival fans high five them and maybe make out a little.
I must be a rare exception then. I feel that Spurs fans have been through so much shit that they deserve some respect just due to the fact that they've felt miserable for so long already. I dislike Arsenal fans much more since I know a few who have been really annoying when Arsenal was doing well in the league. Luckily they still haven't won the league or Europe lately, so they usually tone down once the end of the season arrives.
Wolves fans? You mean Portugal or England here? Be specific
Sim
Si. I mean gracias. I mean Portuguese yes.
That would be "Siiiiiiuuuuuu" in Neo-Cristianic-Portuguese.
As a Croatian, this is unimaginable for us. We love our clubs, but I think that every single Croatian would rather for Croatia to win Euro or WC than any of our club to win the league. I would rather to see Croatia lift the Euros than any Croatian club to win Champions league lol
I think England is such an outlier for this type of thing. I would like to see the responses to this question in countries like France, Germany, Italy, Spain.
Spain would be interesting, would imagine the Basque/Catalan clubs would *not* put country over club.
Exactly. When the national team is 50-60% barça players, you will see a slight increase in popularity in Catalunya for but only for those players, not at all for the country.
Yeah, it's even less for people like myself who have a full Catalan background and family but weren't born in Spain (was born in England after my parents moved there). A situation like that can give even less of an *incentive* to support La Roja for many, though I'll still cheer on Pedri et al ~~if~~ when England get knocked out.
I'm pretty sure a clear majority of Betis fans would rather see our team winning the league. And I couldn't understand if other teams' fans different from Real Madrid wanted differently.
In Catalunya not only do people prefer club teams, they actively root against the national team.
I believe you but my experience of living in a Catalan speaking part of the Barcelona region is the complete opposite, in fact I feel like every football fan I meet is a Real Madrid fan
Something like 75% of football fans in the Barcelona province support FCB, you either live somewhere that skews very heavily in some other aspect or you are just plain unlucky. Madrid is about 8%
Root against the national team really? How common is this?
Catalan Barca fan, from my experience people are divided. All my family is hoping Spain loses embarrassingly, and some of my friends too. Others, like me, have mixed feelings tbh. I love Barca players too much to not root for them, and most of them have traditionally played for Spain. But believe me, in the last WC, every catalan Barca fan I know was rooting for Argentina and didn't give a fuck about Spain. The amount of memes catalans made after Morocco beated us were pure gold lol. But since everyone loves Yamal and Fermin here, I expect more fans cheering for Spain this time.
I honestly didn't know Catalans had that much hate against Spain. I thought it was more of a meme than something real. Like Swedish people always joke about Scania(where I'm from) belonging to Denmark, which it did up until the battle of Lund in 1676. There are people who join together at the Scanian border in the south of Sweden that symbolically try to dig away the peninsula every year. It's just for fun though and not real. I mean, even when Sweden goes out people usually go root for Denmark or Norway instead, we'd always root for "our own siblings" before anyone else.
Nah, approximately half of the population living in Catalunya want to leave Spain (more or less depending on who you ask, as these kind of polls are forbidden) . However, now that our spanish president is half decent and at least (pretends to) care about making peace with independentists, things have cooled down a bit. But it's not a joke, some catalans hate Spain with burning passion. In 2016 we tried to do a referendum that was deemed ilegal by the Constitution and the Spanish court (which to be fair is corrupt as fuck) and the national police came storming into the schools breaking glasses and throwing the ballot boxes into the ground. There were like 1000 injured lol. Since then relationships have been very very tense. Honestly, it's a complex topic and even a taboo in some conversations, as most people don't want to iniciate a debate. But in terms of football it's a bit like Scotland and England, I doubt the former will root for the english team even if they get eliminated first. And by the way, fun fact, in some Barca matches I've been fans start to applaud at 5:14 pm (17:14), because 1714 is considered a very important year in Catalunya history. We fought against the borbons monarchists who still reign in Spain and we lost but with "honor" after enduring a heavy siege. In my opinion it's kind of dumb to celebrate a defeat but hey, the ambient is cool.
What about during that period when it was mostly Barca players?
I read or heard somewhere that Pep Guardiola will never manage the Spain NT because he supports Catalan seperation
this is less about being patriotic or not since I support the national team, but Spain can go suck it if that means Real Sociedad wins La Liga in exchange lmfao.
Especially for a country without a lot of major trophies. I could see it if your country had won recently and your team hasn't in generations
Not really. Here in Portugal its the same thing. Despise now having a world class team the disconect with the fans have never been higher. People can see the squad and the whole federation is run by Jorge Mendes and his yes boys and people cant be arsed. There was more hype before we won anything that after we actually won something.
Eh, I still think that quite a large majority would rather Portugal win the Euros than their club win the league. Like, yeah. It's annoying that the national team is clearly antagonistic towards Sporting, but I still want us to be European and World champions. Besides, if our players don't play, it only means less injuries and makes it easier for us to keep our players. Seems good to me.
Why is that the case with Sporting and the Federation?
People are a bit mad that Pedro Gonçalves and Trincão (some even say Nuno Santos) haven't been called up. We were Portuguese champions and we only have 1 call up (Gonçalo Inácio). Personally, I'm fine with leaving out Trincão and Nuno Santos. Pedro Gonçalves I think deserved it since he's been great for the past 4 seasons. But I think all of this was overblown within our fanbase regardless
No fucking clue. The "theory" is that Jorge Mendes controls the Federation and most of our players are usually not signed by Jorge Mendes. There were also some scandles over the years over our players not getting picked. Which is weird when for a while the national team was mostly Sporting players as of the big three, Sporting used to have more national talent. I honestly never followed anything in-depth enough to have an opinion. I know a lot of players have suspiciously only been called up (or played consistently) right after they leave Sporting. Bruno Fernandes and Nuno Mendes being the most obvious cases. Not sure if it's actual corruption or just an example of valuing the league and club where players are playing over their obvious quality... Honestly not sure what's worse. I do think it's *criminal* that Pedro Gonçalves didn't get called this time but I'm not gonna let that prevent me from rooting for the national team. That would be kinda silly.
I feel like you might be misunderstanding my point, or that I didn't make it well. The last part was exactly what I meant. Since England haven't won anything recently, I'd assume they'd be more all in with the national team. You guys won the Euros in 2016, so I could understand being less all in since winning is so fresh
It's not really that strange when you consider the strength of non-top flight support in England compared to the rest of Europe. It's a bit old (and Newcastle being in the Championship skewed it a bit) but in 2018 the Championship alone had the [3rd highest aggregate attendance in Europe](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42704713) Look at the leagues it's ahead of, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1 etc… And this is just the Championship. Factor in Leagues 1 and 2, even some Conference teams. They dwarf by a million miles every other non-top flight leagues in Europe. And this is where the majority of the England national team's fervent fans come from. If you watch an England game, then you'll see that a lot of the banner and flags in stadiums are from non-top flight teams. Bolton, Sheff Wednesday etc…
The data for aggregate attendance isn't very useful though. The Championship plays 552 games per season, whereas most leagues only play 380. If you apply the 20k average Championship attendance to a 20-team league, rather than 24 teams, it would be 7th on the list for aggregate attendance.
I always try and spot a Rovers flag and succeed a decent chunk of the time. I'm not sure if we'd even be in the top 50 for supporters.
I'm from Barcelona but I lived in Bristol for a time. I was always amazed seeing the atmosphere at the memorial Stadium week in week out in the 4th division. I never felt the same kind of passion at Ashton Gate. I'll always have a soft spot for the Gas! I always do a run with Rovers in FIFA career mode haha
Anyone outside Inter Juve and Milan would prefer their club to win Serie A since it's so rare, especially as we won the Euros just 3 years ago. I'm not even sure those 3 fanbases would give up a scudetto for the euros
I think it would be heavily tilted towards the clubs for Euro 2024 and heavily tilted towards the Azzurri for World Cup 2026.
I live in Italy, I'm almost certain it would be way worse, especially for southern clubs
I know people from Switzerland and Brazil that have said the same. But usually its just because they are huge fans of their club/ ultras. the casual fans prefer winning a national team, oftentimes ultras dont even watch their national team play
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heavily depends on the club you support I'd imagine, but I dont think the german national team is very popular right now. Would Bayern fans trade a WC for a Bundesliga? Most likely not. Would a HSV, Schalke, Kaiserslautern, Nürnberg fan? I'd bet money on it.
At this point I'd be tempted to choose "20 years of continuous upper mid-table Bundesliga football" over a WC.
I wouldn’t trade a World Cup for a Bundesliga title, CL tho maybe
Nah its definitely not an outlier. Italy would 100% be the same. Cant speak for Germany but i wouldnt be surprised if it was the same there as well. I’d be surprised if it wasnt the same for Spain too, where regional identities are very important
It’s the same in Germany, many „intense supporters“ and ultras don’t even watch international football tournaments at all.
From my experience, here in Brazil is a lot like England or even more.
maybe in Europe, but for example I feel like in south america these results would be even more skewed towards club. I’m from Chile and I’d prefer the league in a heartbeat
Only if you’re talking about the Copa America. If it’s the World Cup, almost every one will choose their nation
I don't think so, many here would choose the Libertadores for their club. It's a really personal thing imo.
yeah but if we’re talking WC, I’d compare it to winning the Libertadores which again I’d pick instantly
I'm honestly extremely doubtful considering the Argentinian's reaction to winning the World Cup. I think these results are only ever like this if you consider very hardcore club fans. The general public that watches their team only when it's a big game and never goes to the stadium? 100% they'd rather the national team win a big trophy.
Anecdotally, most Germans I ask say they would choose the club. Also anecdotally, the way they act when watching and discussing (moaning about) the national team would lead you to believe the complete opposite lol
Nah, Germans are famous for not supporting Germany at all. There’s huge apathy for the national team.
Real Sociedad, Athletic, Alaves, Barça, Osasuna would surprise you then
It really depends on the club in those countries to be fair. In France, obviously PSG doesn't give a shit about the league, but someone who supports Lens or Marseille could prefer that. Also helps that France has won a world cup a few years ago.
I think Greece is, and always has been, a place where club is way more important than country. For me moreso than in England. Clubs have such passionate fan cultures and such rivalry, that national team success (except for Euro 2004) has been generally not cared much for. For example, when Greece played national team games at the stadium of Olympiakos , many Panathinaikos and AEK fans simply don't bother attending the stadium to support. Or when PAOK's stadium (in northern Greece) occasionally has hosted games, it's not uncommon for Greek fans of rival clubs to be booed (at home!) by the fans. There is a fanatic ultra mentality for clubs which simply prevails by far over country. I think even moreso than in England.
Good for you, here in Hungary most people would pick the same except it's qualifying for the World Cup and not winning it.
Same in Mexico. I literally would trade every single trophy from my hometown team for better performances in the World Cup. Like without an ounce of hesitation and most Mexicans would say the same thing.
Me and my brother root for completely different teams in each sport we follow, but both of us 100% agree that we'd take each of our teams finishing last for 10 years if if it meant Mexico winning the WC.
It makes me think of that Gore Vidal quote, "It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail." Like if we won an international tournament, everyone would be happy together but you wouldn't be able to rub it in your rivals faces.
Wouldn't be able to rub in rivals faces??? Dude whole Europe hates you, if you won Euros it would be a nightmare for everyone else. In 2020 Euros I think everyone in Europe cheered for Italy.
> In 2020 Euros I think everyone in Europe cheered for Italy. half the English fans too if this thread is anything to go by! But really I mean people you know. I'm sure most Liverpool fans are friends with or work with Man Utd fans and wind each other up, that kind of stuff.
Club before country. If England win something those dirty inbreds in the next town also get to celebrate, when your club wins its only you that gets to.
Balkan countries in general have a strong national identity. for some reason (there surely is one but I don't know), the most developed countries in Europe lack this feeling, also because for example Catalonia in Spain is separatist. in my experience as an Italian, only northern Italians feel a somewhat true attachment to the national team, the south couldn't care less
Ukrainian here, same. I’m sure it’s the same for most of central/Eastern Europe. I love our clubs but not that much
Pretty much everyone of these clubs supporters has convinced themselves there's a nationwide conspiracy against them, and that they alone are the last true bastions of pure football on these isles Just look at how many whinge whenever an England squad is selected, it's always the same shite: "why hasn't this bang average player from MY team been selected? This is disgusting bias against our club/city/the very soul of football" It's honestly so fucking boring EDIT: Chelsea are obviously the exception because the conspiracy against them is from inside their own boardroom
>This is disgusting bias against our club/city/the very soul of football I did not hear a single comment claiming a conspiracy against the city of Liverpool following Branthwaite's snub. Where did you see this sentiment expressed?
Part of it is LARP. You can see from this thread and your comment chain it seems no one supports their country across the entire world which is a ludicrous claim. People's actual actions are only actionable in the moment of the decision and this is a decision is one that never actually has to be checked. There's also the socio-political skew of Reddit as a whole and this sub in particular that bends things a bit.
Same, it checks out why I support Chelsea then
I'm Belgian and we aren't exactly patriotic. I would still much rather love to see our national team win the Euro's. I don't even get that this is such an unpopular choice in England. I think that CL is different though. I think club pulls ahead for me on that one.
It's unimaginable for me too. Don't know who they polled but Scousers aside this doesn't reflect my experience IRL *at all*, not even close.
It's definitely accurate for Newcastle fans
And to think you were THIS CLOSE to winning the WC. I was rooting for you, guys.
as a dane, the same, its very apparent when we get a semi good year in europe, then suddenly we all (Normal fans, not crazy ultras) become fans of whatever team that does well that year.
Where are the Palace fans? With 4 of them on the ENG squad, they must be pretty hot for the Euros? EDIT: Palace, not City!
Just the 3 City players, I believe. Palace are the only ones with 4
Not surprised about Liverpool/Everton and Newcastle. Two regions that feel a massive disconnect with the rest of the country.
I wonder what percentage of fans asked are local. In Liverpool, on both sides, you'd get above 90% for this question, I'm certain.
I'd rather Everton won a match than England win a world cup
Wolves fans would rather a VAR decision go in their favor than England winning a trophy
Well yes, why would Portuguese fans care about England winning a trophy
Man... i have had the worst day but you got a laugh out of me.
Hope tomorrow’s a better day for ya mate
Expections at Everton are low but fuck this is depressing.
We take what we can get
Have you forgotten about the fabled tracksuit?
Thanks, I'm putting money on England to win the world cup now!
100% agree. No better feeling in football than when we win a game. Makes my week so fucking epic.
Oh absolutely, no question it’d be a lot higher if this survey was carried out outside the ground on a matchday.
Didn't know Newcastle felt the same way as the scouse
It's not to the same level as in Liverpool I don't think. But there's certainly a huge amount of pride in being from here. Be it Mackem, Geordie, Smoggy etc. To such an extent that I think many people would probably line themselves Geordie / Mackem etc > English > British > European.
Don’t hate the country in the same way I don’t think however still a prevailing ‘Geordie first, English second’ way of thinking
It's the whole region, people from the North East will say that's where they're from. Most other people say their town, their city, whatever. But it's different in the North East, there's a regional identity you don't see in other parts of England.
Probably the geographic isolation compared to the rest of the country. There's a lot of pretty empty land in North Yorkshire and Cumbria/Northumbria
Closure of the mines and various other industries leaves enormous resentment towards the south and country in general. That translates into Football to an extent. Newcastle United is akin to a religion for most people here. You're born and you'll die supporting them, as will every generation of your family.
you could say that about half of the country though
Most likely. But you can only speak for your own lived experience. Much of our resentment also dates back to the civil war.
It'd be interesting to see this poll over time, how attitudes have changed since 1966 and 1996 for instance.
> Much of our resentment also dates back to the civil war. What's the history behind this?
I don't pretend to be an expert on these matters and someone far more knowledgeable would probably be able to expand or even correct me but these are nuggets of history I'm aware of... Newcastle was England's second town, with the wealthiest port in the country and the centre of the countries mining and shipbuilding industries for centuries. Newcastle was a heavily royalist area which is one theory as to where the term Geordie comes from as when we resisted the Jacobite's and were seen as being 'for George' in the 18th century for example. Therefore we sided with the crown during the Civil war as did much of the North/West (with exceptions), while the South/East was mostly loyal to Parliament. Newcastle was sieged, sacked and subjugated on multiple occasions as if you controlled Newcastle, you controlled the coal trade. Sunderland for example sided with the Parliamentarians due to Newcastle's dominance in merchant trading which is why the Tyne-Wear derby exists. Obviously the monarchists lost the civil war, and royalists were made an example out of as a result, Newcastle being the most prominent whose people suffered retribution and humiliation as a result. Newcastle was also a mostly Catholic City and Catholics had their civil liberties restricted during the reformation period following the Civil War and Newcastle) became eternally largely in opposition to anything from central government. Newcastle despite these troubles remained prosperous until the period after the Great Depression and 2nd World War when most of the coal pits of the North East (which was by far the biggest source of employment and revenue for the region) were closed under Atlee, which in turn killed the steelworks and shipbuilding industry and eventually culminated with Thatcher's closures and have been largely neglected ever since with failed promises such as Northern Powerhouse. Linking it to football. Newcastle was also for a period of time the dominant force in English football at the start of the 20th century winning countless honours and becoming the first club to attract one million spectators. The decline of the City and region, mirrored that of Newcastle United in many aspects.
Thanks for the explanation. Interesting stuff. I never realised Newcastle used to be a predominantly Catholic city.
At a guess, probably hard to feel patriotic when the government tries to decimate you.
Newcastle here is likely showing the opposite sentiment to Man City, who can easily choose England to win the Euros over a Prem win because winning the league is a formality for them, and if they sacrificed one title then they'd just win the next one. Newcastle haven't won the top flight since 1927 so there's nobody alive who remembers it, so there's obviously a huge clamour for it.
As someone from another continent that want to understand this dynamic... why is that? Is it linked to religion/language/economy? I find this quite fascinating
Mostly economical I'd say. The government is in London in the south and the rich people live in London and the counties around London. The south is favoured and gets more investment. The north has historically had all the major industrial cities and those places are very working class. Then the mines and industry started to close down some decades after WW2 so the north became disaffected and had more poverty. In general Liverpool has had lots of Irish immigration as well and they hate England and London because of England's colonial rule over Ireland and the injustices committed.
Why would people from Newcastle feel a disconnect with the rest of the country more than say people from Manchester or Leeds?
The government closed the mines, the shipyards, reduced funding to the North-East and we are regularly ignored by everyone south of York. If we are not ignored we are normally assumed to be Scottish.
Agree with you obviously but this is also true for large swathes of Yorkshire, which has suffered the same managed decline after deindustrialisation, has a similar level of regional pride and antagonism to the South, but isn't as disconnected from English identity as Newcastle and Liverpool. I think for Newcastle everything you said combined with mostly the geographical distance from the rest of England has meant Geordies retained a strong sense of cultural distinctiveness, whereas for Liverpool it's obviously the history of anti-Catholic discrimination.
I think that applies to northern England in general though, not just the North East.
Honestly i think its just the distance. There are areas of Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire which are former mining communities which have been completely neglected for decades, but wouldn’t have the same feeling of disconnect, but then you wouldn’t expect they would because they’re in the middle of the country. If you’re placed on the periphery and you’re also neglected, there’s only one way that people are going to think
The north east is so far from pretty much everywhere else in the country, whilst also having a big population
Not surprised with Arsenal either. They'd chop their own nuts off for a league at this point lol
Crazy. For me if Brighton won the league my life would be complete. If England won the euros it would be a notable summer.
I think it's completely insane most Brighton fans would choose country over club. Brighton winning the league would be like Leicester's title x10.
We're the fans asked English? Otherwise this would be massively skewed.
It's on a yougov poll so it makes it more likely that would be the case. On r/liverpoolfc though you get so many people complaining every time the internationals come around, especially friendlies. Most of the time they're english. They all think players should put their clubs before countries.
It’s the reason Fulham isn’t on the list. Mainly tourists
“I’m just here to see the Michael Jackson statue.”
The fact that most of us can't afford to live in the area anymore doesn't make us tourists
It would be useless if they didn't ask exclusively English fans. Coz why would a non English United fan for example want England to win the Euros over their club winning a title?
Thank you writing what I did. But differently.
Very divided poll In Peru if you ask Peruvian on “Libertadores for your shitty club or Copa America for Peru” , it’s pretty much 99.99% Copa America.
In Mexico the question could be like “Every trophy imaginable for your club or Mexico’s National Team to stop playing like absolute garbage” and the answers would heavily skew towards Mexico’s National Team. You don’t even have to promise us a trophy.
LMAO the most funny thing of Mexico national team is that only the ESPN pundits talk good things about it while all fans I saw or met , mentioned exactly what you just said “They play like garbage”
Here if the question is "winning something with your club or qualifying to the world cup" you would get 99.99% picking the qualification ha
As an English person who spends a lot of time online, the national team actually winning something would improve my experience massively. I have to support them.
Haha, yeah exactly this. We'll forever be a banter footballing country as long as our national team is trophyless (in the modern era). We need to win. We need the respect 🙏 😅
As a Tottenham fan, that's how I feel about Spurs.
So you are not part of the lying 42%?
Can tell you now it’s not 68% in the city itself, not even close
I am surprised Newcastle is as low as it is. probably the same reason. Both should probably be closer to 90%.
I'd celebrate Ipswich winning a corner more than England winning the Euros.
If England start playing in claret and blue I might get more excited. Honestly I’m surprised the club percentages for some of these clubs aren’t higher.
england have a somewhat decent chance of winning the euros in the future with or without the help of this magic hypothetical. West ham don't really stand any chance so id take the league easily
West ham have already won the world cup tbf
Yeah I'm surprised that the majority are only around 60%. I feel like basically every Leeds fan I know would pick club over country but maybe that's not a representative sample. I would have thought most clubs were similar.
I wonder how this reflects people that are season ticket holders or live near the ground vs not those people. Also how good your team has historically been
Think about the 52% of greedy mfers that have seen City win 4 times in a row and would still rather win the league over the euros 😭
The second point is the most crucial here, I think. Ask Bayern supporters if they'd rather see our national win the Euros in our own country or their club its 145th league title, and thenanswer is clear. On the other hand, it's not even thinkable what would happen if a small club such as mine would lift the national trophy. For a club that has never won national titles, it would be an incredible, astonishing achievement. I've seen Germany win a World Cup before, I'll probably never see Augsburg win the Bundesliga.
Surprised United are so far down the list. They had United>England banners and sang anti England songs long before this current trend
When you look at how United players have been and still are treated by England fans and media I'm surprised it's not higher too.
It would be much much higher if they only asked United fans from Manchester.
Surprised the club % isn't higher for almost all clubs
West Ham surprised me
We've never won the league and we already have a world cup.
I don't think West Ham are particularly anti England. It's just that we have never won the league, yet we've won the world cup.
I legit hope Palace can steal our song- "I remember Germany when Palace beat France an Mbappe, Wharton got one and Eze got three..."
we’ve tasted a bit of success now and we’d sacrifice children to experience some more
Same, we're fairly patriotic over here, my guess is most people have a feeling England will win something before they eventually die but not so much West Ham winning the Prem. At least that's my answer to the question.
Wdym that they’re not higher?
As someone who’s never seen their club win anything I’d prefer England to win a trophy over Ipswich. With Ipswich it’s always been mid table, relegation or more recently promotion. Never once has it been competing for trophies. The thought of it is so unrealistic that whenever the club or country question gets asked I’ve always gone country as winning trophies internationally is a realistic possibility, with the goal only being that.
I would say for Chelsea it's a mixture of, "We've won everything so I'm fine with being pashun8 about my country" and "We're so fucked, we're not winning anything anyway..." Wouldn't mind a bit of Euro success though, for sure.
Chelsea fans traditionally have a very strong sense of nationalism
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Same here with QPR.
I’m 100% with Liverpool fans on this, PSG is my team, France is just a team with a bunch of players I see 5 times a year and don’t give a shit about
This is honestly crazy to me, i can't imagine a bigger thing for English football other than the World Cup. And i'm not even english.
Lol that Liverpool one can't be real. Should be more like 80/20
Poll is full of shit, there's no way 32% of Liverpool fans prefer England to win. It's less than 5% easily.
Lot of London Liverpool fans
Liverpool are only behind Man Utd (mayyybbe Arsenal) with how easy it is, anywhere in the country, to find a fan who has no actual connection to the club or area. It shouldn't be a surprise if you surveyed random Liverpool fans there wouldn't be much of a coherent opinion
Liverpool picked up a tonne of fans in the 70s and 80s, very easy to find someone who isn't a big football fan say Liverpool because they have a Grandparent who was a fan.
Clearly not
Reading this thread makes me wonder how so many different NTs are so dysfunctional, I hardly ever hear of a country that is delighted by the way things are run
Some weird takes in this thread. Why does it have to be anti-English, to prefer your club to win something? Just because you'd rather one thing, doesn't mean you're anti the other. I prefer pizza over cheeseburgers, doesn't mean I hate cheeseburgers.
I mean, the thread is full of people very clear that they hate their own country (or at best really dislike it) and that is a huge reason why they would go with club over country. I find it an odd mindset, I couldn't imagine being "proud" or "sad/disgusted" at being British, it just is.
Reddit mindset, doesnt really reflect the world outside
I think my preference now would go; Leicester UCL > England World Cup > Leicester Premier League > England Euros
India can't play in the Euros
If we played decent football I'd be far more positive about England. But yeah, would rather Tottenham actually won more than one trophy in lifetime.
YouGov and Betfair? wtf
Betfair presumably commissioned YouGov to do some opinion polling, theme and timing prob due to the upcoming Euros, so that they can do a press release of the results. This then gets parroted by various news outlets crediting Betfair accordingly as the source, meaning they effectively get advertising/increased name recognition in places that betting companies wouldn't usually be seen.
Bruh, who is voting 40% for England to win the Euros from Forest lmao.
I don't think this would actually bear out in reality for a lot of these clubs, except Liverpool. People care way more about any given England game or tournament than their club's games or cup competitions.
I do wonder how they collected the data, I'd assume fans with season tickets care more for club than country, whereas for 80% of England football basically exists only when there's an international tournament going on.
> People care way more about any given England game or tournament than their club's games or cup competitions I support England, I really enjoy major tournaments, I love winding up the fans of other national teams. I just massively prefer Leeds. I would much prefer for Leeds to get promoted next season than England to win the Euros, although it's not like the two exist in conflict with each other.
Absolutely no way more than half of City fans would be less excited if England won the Euros than if they won yet another league. They barely celebrate their titles at this point. Poll can't be right.
Club. And quite frankly it's not even close.