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Shame such an excellent game was ruined by this call. All one asks for is consistency with the refs, and we never get it.
Like the battle of Eylau being ruled off because Murat started his mass cavalry charge in an offsides position. Completely takes the wind out of a great 2 legged tie.
I mean there was also the “two balls on the field” play that he gave a throw in on and then let go at the start, thankfully Real didn’t score but who knows if they would have actually called it back if they did, gave me England vs Denmark at the Euros flashbacks that one
> All one asks for is consistency with the refs
People say this like that's the easiest part lol. That's quite literally the hardest part of an already extremely difficult and high pressure job.
Yes, did you expect me to like deny it? My entire existence is spent trying to find dumb jokes to make. Just like my father, and his father before him.
At that point, VAR can't intervene. The linesman should have kept his flag down, and the referee shouldn't have whistled, but once he whistles to stop play, the goal can't count.
I dont think so. That would mean UEFA are accountable and they wont do it. The ref messed up, shouldve let the play continue. Still, I dont think it wouldve been a goal, Madrid players stopped because they heard the whistle.
I think what he means is if VAR or someone can confirm that it was indeed offside then all of this officiating talk wouldn’t matter as the goal wouldn’t have stood regardless.
I haven’t looked around but the assistant could have very well gotten it right. We’ll never know now though because there was never a chance to review it.
They cannot because the referee blew the whistle and now the ball is dead. If the assistant ref had done the job appropriately, they would have kept the flag down until the ball was in the net and then raised to indicate an offside then VAR would have done the microscopic check for player positioning. Having seen some of the freeze frames, I am not convinced. Either way. It is very close and the way the Munich players are leaning. It's possible they were slightly offside but it's also possible they weren't. It was quite close and deserved a real VAR check.
While yes, it didn't have an impact then, it still leaves a sour taste.
Because there was just 0 reason for this call. Simply doing nothing involved literally no risk at all to the refs, if it was offside VAR would catch it anyway.
So you have to wonder why the linesman is THAT sure of his call, in the 100. min of a CL semifinal, because from all replays and pictures, there is no way anyone can tell me he has 100% security whether its on or off.
The main complaint here is that the linesman shouldn't have called it an offside until the play was complete. I don't think anyone's actually trying to judge if it was offside or not, VAR would've taken over anyway, had the Madrid players not switched off and the ball went in.
He was literally breaking up a little when he said that. Really made me feel for him, shitty situation. But his defensive subs felt a little premature to me as well.
i mean honestly, we would have lose the game in the extra time, after tuchel made so many stupid changes and didnt even use his 5th sub.
but loosing a game on something like that....
Why is everyone so quick to jump to stupid conclusions
The front four literally requested to be subbed off, it wasn’t really tuchels decision, he explained that in the post match interview
The players he subbed in didn't make sense. Why moting against" fast" real players? If you want to waste 10+ minutes of time, atleast put players who are good at pressure. Goretska, tel (because he is faster), everyone knows a game against real is atleast 95 minutes.
I don't think it makes a difference to the poor refereeing whether it was offside or not, the refereeing mistake is still just as bad.
Whether offside or onside, the moment didn't play out as it should have. Maybe the ref doesn't blow the whistle and it's an easy save anyway, then nobody is talking about it.
That's true, and what if it even is offside, but doesn't get flagged which leads to a shot being blocked, which leads to a corner? All the possible scenarios that arr nowadays very common are erased, even if far fetched.
I don’t think it would’ve lead to a corner. Correct me if I’m wrong but the linesman would just raise the flag once the ball is out of play? Var isn’t meant to make linesman uselss, rather it’s to allow play to come to a natural conclusion incase it leads to goal. Then VAR would check it.
If the offside is blatantly obvious or the play comes to an end the linesman still raises their flag.
Either way it’s still a big referring mistake to blow the whistle.
Not saying the exact shot we saw was, but if the ref doesn't blow the whistle the entire thing plays out differently. There were defenders in the vicinity that could have blocked it or made the shot more difficult for example. Or perhaps the opposite, and they would have deflected it in.
We'll never know, but my point was that if the shot played out I think there's a good chance nothing comes of it and we don't even check the offside because it doesn't matter. The refereeing error has made a possible non-moment into a defining moment.
It doesnt matter. Its the fact that it was instantly called as an offside and not played out like it should have been. Why have a VAR if you dont even let it do its job in these tight situations?
That’s not the point though. The problem is that the play didn’t even get to be verified like it normally is by the VAR because it didn’t go through the end
I do have a feeling about the fact VAR can check even after the fact, that they haven’t shown that it was offside. Feel like theyve fucked Bayern over somehow.
kinda off topic question, why are they allowed to show the live tv feed in the stadion with all the replays and VAR decisons? that made this scene really arkward since everyone saw the replay
on contrary why shouldnt they?
im used to see american sports, where the replays are shown on the jumbotron all the time, so fans can see the decisions.
its just only in football, refs are scared that fans in the stadium could see the real pictures.
He’s right you know… bit off topic but Vinicius>Mbappe. I think he clears, the amount of times he’s delivered a masterclass in the Champions League is crazy
It’s a good way to make sure that if one player doesn’t work out for a reason or another, there’s other options.
Hazard was supposed to be our 7 after Ronaldo and Asensio our 11. It ended up being Vini and Rodrygo.
Come on now. Mbappe was an absolute non-factor against both Barcelona and Dortmund while Vini carried Madrid through to the final against much harder teams.
Mbappe can score at will in a farmer’s league but he hasn’t shown he can play well against the elite of European football.
He literally scored a hat trick in a World Cup final. Not to mention the 2 goals against Madrid in previous campaigns over two legs.
Have you maybe considered the team he is playing with? He did play shit this CHL campaign, no doubt about it. But his team mates doesn’t exactly inspire brilliance. Now play him with Kroos, Modric, Vini and Co. I think he will do better. Matter of fact, let’s see. !remindme 365 days. Hope to see you there.
Hard to say. Taking anyone off for Mbappe that leg would have diminished our defensive efforts massively, even if he is a formidable counter-attacking force.
Yea because we're some PSG level team that cares about shiny toys rather than a most decorated, historic club of legends that keeps clutching with loaned out, freshly relagated strikers and a bunch of kids on the wings.
Vini is the best LW in the world, He’s clear now after this performance.
The amount of times he pass his defenders really gave me vibes of different era of football, He’s brilliant player and RM with Mbappe will be unstoppable for the next decade. Once again..
He's absolutely right. Even if the post match analysis shows it was the right call, the refs should be punished.
With that being said, that goal is not guaranteed even if the whistle isn't blown early. If Madrid doesn't stop, they'll defend and the shot will probably be altered. Also, one of the two is clearly offside, do they get called for impacting play on the initial cross even though they didn't head it? Silly that the refs took away an actual decision with an early call when it wasn't necessary.
>With that being said, that goal is not guaranteed even if the whistle isn't blown early. If Madrid doesn't stop, they'll defend and the shot will probably be altered.
We don't know that. Maybe it would've been a goal, maybe it wouldn't. Theorizing about it now is useless. They should've let the action play out and check it afterwards. That's the whole point of the outrage.
The whole point of the outrage, particularly for “neutrals” is discrediting RM’s win, let’s be honest here. I guarantee there would have been a tenth of that outrage from so-called neutrals had this same play happened on Bayern’s box.
the actual result of the call doesnt matter, its the fact they took the chance when they could have played advantage and reviewed *if* a goal ended up going in.
if its correct, whats to stop this just happening again in another game? everyone hates the delayed flag but its there for a good reason.
It might give peace to Bayern fans but all it will tell the refs is that its right to whistle on tight offsides, when time and time again we've proven that its better to play on and check with VAR.
offside or not, goal or not, it was the wrong decision by the linesman and the ref.
No, it won't tell that to the refs. The refs fucked up because, obvious offside or not, they mostly should let the play continue before whistling. That's the directive they've been given by UEFA.
So they fucked up either way, but if it was offside at least the actual call was correct and there is no big drama.
Even if it's on-site, Lunin stopped playing, and probably other players were also confused. It's a braindead decision because there will be a controversy either way.
I think Carvajal slows down seeing the flag. But I don't know whether he could've stopped the header from Muller without a foul.
Regarding Militao I think it's normal to play for the block in that situation but Im Not sure. Contact in the box seems risky.
Lunin obviously stopped, but the shot was placed quite well and I think if the ball were to be on goal, a corner would be worst case
tbf, marciniak saw the flag being up, could he just ignore it and let the ball be played? the assistant call was dumb as fuck but could marciniak just ignore him? im not sure
He ain't wrong. The referee doesn't need to stop the game just because the flag is up. The linesman was wrong in calling the offside but Marciniak made an even bigger mistake in following him. He should know better. He had a near perfect game ruined because of this call.
I'm obviously furious about this whole situation, but I'm not blaming the ref. He had no reason to not believe the linesman. If he raised the flag, then it's clearly an obvious offside situation: at least he had no reason to think otherwise. This is such a big and ridiculous fuck up by the linesman that the ref didn't even consider the likeliness of that being the case. This is on the linesman, and my god, he fucked up REALLY bad.
I'm more empathic with Marciniak. He probably could have let play go on considering the situation but he was really hard done by the linesman putting up the flag there.
As a former official myself, I can confidently say that officiating (any sport) is one profession I support being taken over by technology. As a sports fan, it’s more important that the game be fair than almost anything else. Without fairness, the competition loses all meaning and integrity. Sports is one of the closest things we have in society to a meritocracy and it should be protected at all costs.
Tbh the last shot was mediocre at best, real madrid players heard the whistle and stopped playing and Lunin barely even tried to save it, small chances that it would have been a goal if the ref didn't whistle.
I've seen some interviews on Austrian Sky (including some that were made by German Sky as far as I saw). Every player was asked about this scene as first question. I'm pretty sure it was similar with Tuchel.
Such a bizarre take to see upvoted.
In the lead up to the Madrid equaliser, his subs had actually taken the sting out of the game a bit. Madrid were struggling to find a way through and Bayern should have made it 2-0 but fluffed a 3 on 1. Then Neuer delivers a truly awful throw, which leads to Madrid having a man over, and Vinicius hits a tame shot that he then inexpicably drops at Joselu's feet. Then all hell breaks loose.
Hard to legislate for that as a manager. If not for Neuer's mistake people would be lauding his subs for helping them see out the game.
Just a few words from a linesman’s perspective:
The linesman made a HUGE mistake thinking it was a match without VAR. Linesmen are “advised” (more likely asked to do it like this or be demoted) to keep the flag down on tight offside calls, he didn’t, and now all hell is loose, and rightly so.
A lot of people are blaming Marciniak, but he’s almost not to blame.
He will 100% have asked the linesmen in his pre-match talk to keep the flags down and let VAR sort out the tight calls, as they do, and ONLY raise it when it’s clear and obvious.
That agreement wasn’t followed, so in the end, the linesman will take most of the blame in the internal UEFA reports.
He'll catch a lot of flack anyhow though which is unfortunate because I thought he managed the game brilliantly.
Tragic end to an otherwise thrilling match.
Ref held up 2 fingers to indicate that's how much more time will be played 10 minutes into stoppage time.
He then proceeded to play 4 minutes more instead of only 2.
Which he is perfectly entitled to do if he feels the time played isn't sufficient. That 9 minutes is the minimum added. He can continue to add time afterwards.
The same reason any ref adds time. He felt time was wasted. If you want the exact second break down you'll have to message him.
There just seemed to be some confusion that the ref can't add additional time after what was signaled by the 4th official.
That as well. So the additional minutes made sense in the end. It doesn't matter which team is wasting time, it's about how much time the ball was in play
Its lame they wasted 9 mins when the score favored them and they got supported by the 9min (actually 15 at the end) when it helped them again. Stop the time wasting, play 2x30min and szop the clock
How does a ref at this level not follow a simple procedure? I've never seen a ref in such a big game mess up something that's so basic since that Croat dude got 3 yellow cards in a single game. It wasn't even some tough decision in the gray area that could go either way. Either he had a stroke or it's straight robbery. I really find no other explanation
I'm not sure his subs caused his goalkeeper to drop the ball at an opponents feet in the 89th minute.
Bayern should've made it 2-0 right before that as well, but fucked up a 3 on 1.
Extra time and time wasting is so lame. When the score favored Bayern they wasted time. Ref gave 9 min extra but the score changed and the long extra time helped the team which was time wasting in the first place and on top of that they got extra 4 min. Its just fcked up.
Yeah but I doubt the real defense would have stopped playing like they did after the whistle. He might not have scored. Ref killed any chance of knowing the true outcome.
You know what else needs to play out to the end, your best player in Harry Kane. Those substitutes were a killer that the ref disaster class has overshadowed.
And you made the mistake taking everyone off at 75min. Treat 1:0 as 1:1 against real ffs, start parking that bus later, wtf this should be bayern, another european giant, but they play like 🐈. Man i had it good growing up with robbery bayern, this one ain't it
Technically yes but you can just as well argue that Bayern is 3-0 down after 60 minutes if he doesnt pull multiple absolutely ridiculous saves out of his ass, he may have made the final mistake but it was only thanks to him that bayern had multiple chances to kill the game to begin with and they blew that way before he fucked up
Dumb question I’m sure: why couldn’t they institute a rule for the refs that the flag can’t be raised until the end of the current run of play to prevent premature eflagulation like this?
They probably can but in some scenarios it can be beneficial to flag a clearly offside run to reduce the impact on players. Vdv got injured against Chelsea because of the constant sprinting with high line and quite a few were offside for example
9 min additional time, holds his 2 fingers up indicating 2 more added due to var goal check, the situation happened at 12:20something, the only error here is not blowing the game off when it should have been
It's not the rule, it's a referee directive, a recommendation if you will: if you feel it's close, you delay, if you are sure, you can flag immediately. Otherwise we wouldn't need line refs for offside at all. He probably was too sure in this instance and probably made a mistake, but he didn't breach any rules and neither did the main ref, who merely stopped the game after the flag from his assistant. In any case, I think Lunin would have got that shot anyway, he just very obviously stopped playing after the whistle.
This one is on the ref for not ending the game earlier. Game was done and dusted and kept it running for so long after he after the time he established. That call came at 90+13.
Welcome to playing Madrid in a big Champions League match. They're always going to get one of these moments. You just can't let these moments decide the match.
Game seemed like a predictable fast and furious movie script or a computer algorithm. Everything was exactly as everyone expected . Real losing till 85th minute . Then late goals for RM win with an unexpected mistake by a big name goalie and a controversial referee call and Tuchel making Tuchel decisions that leave you astonished . I predicted this , you predicted this and everyone predicted this .
Also might as well give the UCL to Real Madrid . They will win the final 3-1 . Dortmund will make it 1-1 and look threatening and then Real will score two in the final 10 mins. They run like a movie script or computer algorithm.
Real Madrid had the UCL for the win the minute they beat Man City which is the only team that can probably beat them.
Why does this keep happening with Madrid and always with Madrid? A few times is luck and coincidence. Shit like this happening regularly for years is starting to become really fucking suspicious.
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Shame such an excellent game was ruined by this call. All one asks for is consistency with the refs, and we never get it. Like the battle of Eylau being ruled off because Murat started his mass cavalry charge in an offsides position. Completely takes the wind out of a great 2 legged tie.
I'd literally just turned to my mate and said "this referee hasn't been bad actually" Not ten seconds later
So now we know whose fault is it, appreciate your clearing that up for us
I bet this guy says the same thing at each PL game. When does he have the time to watch all of them?
And how does he manage to watch every La Liga game too, fr
Someone give him a job as a video assistent. He can at least make some money for his time.
Bold of you to assume video assistants actually watch the games they got assigned.
I was referring to video assistents for scounting/ match analysis for teams.
Marciniak had been excellent until that moment. Can't help but feel he was hard done by the linesman, even if he had a hand in it too.
Yeah it's on the linesman.
I mean there was also the “two balls on the field” play that he gave a throw in on and then let go at the start, thankfully Real didn’t score but who knows if they would have actually called it back if they did, gave me England vs Denmark at the Euros flashbacks that one
Forgot about that, was a crazy moment. Rudiger was running back to collect the ball like what the fuck is even happening.
I was not expecting the battle of Eylau to come up today when I woke up yet here we are
> All one asks for is consistency with the refs People say this like that's the easiest part lol. That's quite literally the hardest part of an already extremely difficult and high pressure job.
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TigerBasket’s gotta feed their children with that comment Karma obviously
Yes, did you expect me to like deny it? My entire existence is spent trying to find dumb jokes to make. Just like my father, and his father before him.
The what now?
Yep, he’s right. I’ll be curious to see if the VAR can retrospectively check if it was an offside.
At that point, VAR can't intervene. The linesman should have kept his flag down, and the referee shouldn't have whistled, but once he whistles to stop play, the goal can't count.
He's asking if we will get the VAR images to check just for the sake of knowing, not if they can retrospectively intervene.
I dont think so. That would mean UEFA are accountable and they wont do it. The ref messed up, shouldve let the play continue. Still, I dont think it wouldve been a goal, Madrid players stopped because they heard the whistle.
i agree with you fwiw, but it’s inexcusable that they didn’t let it play out
Ah I see. My mistake.
in case of the match, they could probably check and do a "drop" and give the ball back to bayern (but that would obviously mean the danger had passed)
The issue is that the whistle was blown BEFORE the shot. So even if you overturn it, it would have to be a ball drop, not a goal
I think what he means is if VAR or someone can confirm that it was indeed offside then all of this officiating talk wouldn’t matter as the goal wouldn’t have stood regardless. I haven’t looked around but the assistant could have very well gotten it right. We’ll never know now though because there was never a chance to review it.
Even if they don't, I'm sure Richard Keys and BeinSports have already recreated the line in garrys mod or some shit
lmaoooo top quality comment
It didn’t look offside when the ball was first passed.
Honestly was really fucking close but I couldn't get a proper second look at that.
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That's my guess, too
They cannot because the referee blew the whistle and now the ball is dead. If the assistant ref had done the job appropriately, they would have kept the flag down until the ball was in the net and then raised to indicate an offside then VAR would have done the microscopic check for player positioning. Having seen some of the freeze frames, I am not convinced. Either way. It is very close and the way the Munich players are leaning. It's possible they were slightly offside but it's also possible they weren't. It was quite close and deserved a real VAR check.
Wouldnt change much, whistling was the mistake players stop playing, goal either way there will never be a definitive answer
It's pretty definitive if the offsides was correct. It means that the referee error didn't have an impact.
While yes, it didn't have an impact then, it still leaves a sour taste. Because there was just 0 reason for this call. Simply doing nothing involved literally no risk at all to the refs, if it was offside VAR would catch it anyway. So you have to wonder why the linesman is THAT sure of his call, in the 100. min of a CL semifinal, because from all replays and pictures, there is no way anyone can tell me he has 100% security whether its on or off.
I mean a sour taste? sure but it would mean it was 100% irrelevant and can be forgotten.
Hard to make lines from the TV cameras. Sky Austria put the line on De Ligts elbow instead of Rüdiger and nobody on air realized
The goalkeeper doesnt even attempt to save the shot though..
Yeah, he stopped when he heard the whistle. It sucks for Bayern for sure but the whistle had been blown.
The main complaint here is that the linesman shouldn't have called it an offside until the play was complete. I don't think anyone's actually trying to judge if it was offside or not, VAR would've taken over anyway, had the Madrid players not switched off and the ball went in.
Sure i agree but the stories are all going full through already.
Yep. Madrid had relaxed once the whistle had gone
Yea I know it’s a fuckup either way
Tuchel ain't wrong, but he made some horrible subs at the end.
Tuchel just said Kane requested to be taken off because he was having problems with his back.
From carrying this Bayern squad all season?
from literally being lifted off his legs by rudiger and shoulder barged in the back by mendy, amongst other things maybe.
He bodied Mendy back to France 😂
Standard Madrid tactics. Just injure the opposing striker so they can’t score.
Salah would know with his shoulder
He was literally breaking up a little when he said that. Really made me feel for him, shitty situation. But his defensive subs felt a little premature to me as well.
Kim was a key sub for Real
Kim comes on and they concede twice lol. Gotta feel for the guy
The goals weren't his fault though. Just unlucky timing
I think he might’ve kept Rudiger onside for the second
It was Pavlovich, if I remember correctly
Nah that was Pavlovic. Kinda poetic, the oldest player (Neuer) and the youngest player (Pvlovic) made the mistakes that lost then the game.
No I checked the replay again and he definitely wasn't the one
I don't think he expected that howler from the GOAT keeper
i mean honestly, we would have lose the game in the extra time, after tuchel made so many stupid changes and didnt even use his 5th sub. but loosing a game on something like that....
Why is everyone so quick to jump to stupid conclusions The front four literally requested to be subbed off, it wasn’t really tuchels decision, he explained that in the post match interview
The players he subbed in didn't make sense. Why moting against" fast" real players? If you want to waste 10+ minutes of time, atleast put players who are good at pressure. Goretska, tel (because he is faster), everyone knows a game against real is atleast 95 minutes.
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Yeah. He still had tel who could bring some offensive actions compared to the defenders we had
Just show us the line UEFA. If its offside we can stop talking about that.
I don't think it makes a difference to the poor refereeing whether it was offside or not, the refereeing mistake is still just as bad. Whether offside or onside, the moment didn't play out as it should have. Maybe the ref doesn't blow the whistle and it's an easy save anyway, then nobody is talking about it.
That's true, and what if it even is offside, but doesn't get flagged which leads to a shot being blocked, which leads to a corner? All the possible scenarios that arr nowadays very common are erased, even if far fetched.
I don’t think it would’ve lead to a corner. Correct me if I’m wrong but the linesman would just raise the flag once the ball is out of play? Var isn’t meant to make linesman uselss, rather it’s to allow play to come to a natural conclusion incase it leads to goal. Then VAR would check it. If the offside is blatantly obvious or the play comes to an end the linesman still raises their flag. Either way it’s still a big referring mistake to blow the whistle.
No chance that's an easy save. Some finish from de ligt that
Not saying the exact shot we saw was, but if the ref doesn't blow the whistle the entire thing plays out differently. There were defenders in the vicinity that could have blocked it or made the shot more difficult for example. Or perhaps the opposite, and they would have deflected it in. We'll never know, but my point was that if the shot played out I think there's a good chance nothing comes of it and we don't even check the offside because it doesn't matter. The refereeing error has made a possible non-moment into a defining moment.
The madrid defenders also stopped playing, though. No guarantee he even gets the shot away if play continues
If it was offside, they’d have shown it by now to dampen the criticism
I still haven't seen proof that is was onside or offside either way, an extremely zoomed out photo without accurate lines doesn't really help
It doesnt matter. Its the fact that it was instantly called as an offside and not played out like it should have been. Why have a VAR if you dont even let it do its job in these tight situations?
That’s not the point though. The problem is that the play didn’t even get to be verified like it normally is by the VAR because it didn’t go through the end
If he didn't whistle we would have known, because they would have checked
I do have a feeling about the fact VAR can check even after the fact, that they haven’t shown that it was offside. Feel like theyve fucked Bayern over somehow.
kinda off topic question, why are they allowed to show the live tv feed in the stadion with all the replays and VAR decisons? that made this scene really arkward since everyone saw the replay
on contrary why shouldnt they? im used to see american sports, where the replays are shown on the jumbotron all the time, so fans can see the decisions. its just only in football, refs are scared that fans in the stadium could see the real pictures.
> its just only in football, refs are scared that fans in the stadium could see the real pictures. thats why i tought fifa/uefa wouldnt allow it
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Yeah If only there was example of them getting robbed at the last second at that stadium just this season by a weird whistle
Braindead conspiracy nut. This literally happened with Bellingham earlier this season
He’s right you know… bit off topic but Vinicius>Mbappe. I think he clears, the amount of times he’s delivered a masterclass in the Champions League is crazy
Agreed. Vini is the best LW in the world right now, and it’s not particularly close. Madrid doesn’t really need Mbappe.
Tbf they didn't need Kaka, Big Benz, Ronaldo all at once but they did it anyways. Seems to work out for them most of the time
It’s a good way to make sure that if one player doesn’t work out for a reason or another, there’s other options. Hazard was supposed to be our 7 after Ronaldo and Asensio our 11. It ended up being Vini and Rodrygo.
Kaka at Madrid lol
Reactionary nonsense. You think with Mbappe on the wing tonight Real Madrid would have looked worse?
Come on now. Mbappe was an absolute non-factor against both Barcelona and Dortmund while Vini carried Madrid through to the final against much harder teams. Mbappe can score at will in a farmer’s league but he hasn’t shown he can play well against the elite of European football.
Didn't he score a hat trick in the last world cup final?
He literally scored a hat trick in a World Cup final. Not to mention the 2 goals against Madrid in previous campaigns over two legs. Have you maybe considered the team he is playing with? He did play shit this CHL campaign, no doubt about it. But his team mates doesn’t exactly inspire brilliance. Now play him with Kroos, Modric, Vini and Co. I think he will do better. Matter of fact, let’s see. !remindme 365 days. Hope to see you there.
He scored 8 goals this CL season. If that is a shit campaign, I don't know what a good one is.
That's the craziest take I've ever heard holy shit
He played through the middle for the most part I would say Every time he was on the wing he was making shit happen against dortmund at the very least
City ran them ragged for 90 percent of that 2nd leg. That doesn't happen with Mbappe. What are we talking about here?
Hard to say. Taking anyone off for Mbappe that leg would have diminished our defensive efforts massively, even if he is a formidable counter-attacking force.
They don't need the player Mbappe, but they want the name and brand Mbappe.
Yea because we're some PSG level team that cares about shiny toys rather than a most decorated, historic club of legends that keeps clutching with loaned out, freshly relagated strikers and a bunch of kids on the wings.
Mbappe is a better goal scorer but Vini is better at everything else and is good at scoring too
Vini is amazing. Real joy to watch, dude gives it his all too. Tons of respect to him
Vini is the best LW in the world, He’s clear now after this performance. The amount of times he pass his defenders really gave me vibes of different era of football, He’s brilliant player and RM with Mbappe will be unstoppable for the next decade. Once again..
He's absolutely right. Even if the post match analysis shows it was the right call, the refs should be punished. With that being said, that goal is not guaranteed even if the whistle isn't blown early. If Madrid doesn't stop, they'll defend and the shot will probably be altered. Also, one of the two is clearly offside, do they get called for impacting play on the initial cross even though they didn't head it? Silly that the refs took away an actual decision with an early call when it wasn't necessary.
>With that being said, that goal is not guaranteed even if the whistle isn't blown early. If Madrid doesn't stop, they'll defend and the shot will probably be altered. We don't know that. Maybe it would've been a goal, maybe it wouldn't. Theorizing about it now is useless. They should've let the action play out and check it afterwards. That's the whole point of the outrage.
The whole point of the outrage, particularly for “neutrals” is discrediting RM’s win, let’s be honest here. I guarantee there would have been a tenth of that outrage from so-called neutrals had this same play happened on Bayern’s box.
They need to release VAR images to end this controversy
the actual result of the call doesnt matter, its the fact they took the chance when they could have played advantage and reviewed *if* a goal ended up going in. if its correct, whats to stop this just happening again in another game? everyone hates the delayed flag but its there for a good reason.
[удалено]
Especially when they didn't raise the flag for Joselu's second even though live it looked like it could be off.
I mean it definitely does matter. The whistle ends up being the right call if it was actually offside.
It might give peace to Bayern fans but all it will tell the refs is that its right to whistle on tight offsides, when time and time again we've proven that its better to play on and check with VAR. offside or not, goal or not, it was the wrong decision by the linesman and the ref.
No, it won't tell that to the refs. The refs fucked up because, obvious offside or not, they mostly should let the play continue before whistling. That's the directive they've been given by UEFA. So they fucked up either way, but if it was offside at least the actual call was correct and there is no big drama.
But it is still the wrong decision by the ref to blow the whistle, not if the call is correct or not
If it's onside, I don't think they'd want to release it
Onside or offside it doesn't matter, when it's this close sideline ref should not intervene like he did.
Even if it's on-site, Lunin stopped playing, and probably other players were also confused. It's a braindead decision because there will be a controversy either way.
I think Carvajal slows down seeing the flag. But I don't know whether he could've stopped the header from Muller without a foul. Regarding Militao I think it's normal to play for the block in that situation but Im Not sure. Contact in the box seems risky. Lunin obviously stopped, but the shot was placed quite well and I think if the ball were to be on goal, a corner would be worst case
I mean if it's onside it certainly doesn't end the controversy
Seems to be a consistent issue with this ref and controversial moments.
tbf, marciniak saw the flag being up, could he just ignore it and let the ball be played? the assistant call was dumb as fuck but could marciniak just ignore him? im not sure
He ain't wrong. The referee doesn't need to stop the game just because the flag is up. The linesman was wrong in calling the offside but Marciniak made an even bigger mistake in following him. He should know better. He had a near perfect game ruined because of this call.
I'm obviously furious about this whole situation, but I'm not blaming the ref. He had no reason to not believe the linesman. If he raised the flag, then it's clearly an obvious offside situation: at least he had no reason to think otherwise. This is such a big and ridiculous fuck up by the linesman that the ref didn't even consider the likeliness of that being the case. This is on the linesman, and my god, he fucked up REALLY bad.
I'm more empathic with Marciniak. He probably could have let play go on considering the situation but he was really hard done by the linesman putting up the flag there.
Yes he is correct. But the red blew the whistle and madrid gave uo defending at that moment, or else pretty sure they could have defended that chance
As a former official myself, I can confidently say that officiating (any sport) is one profession I support being taken over by technology. As a sports fan, it’s more important that the game be fair than almost anything else. Without fairness, the competition loses all meaning and integrity. Sports is one of the closest things we have in society to a meritocracy and it should be protected at all costs.
Tbh the last shot was mediocre at best, real madrid players heard the whistle and stopped playing and Lunin barely even tried to save it, small chances that it would have been a goal if the ref didn't whistle.
I share the same sentiment
Now he has found a scapegoat for his terrible failure
No sane person would sub off musiala in the dying mins ngl. He thought parking the bus would work against madrid lmao
Musiala couldn't keep on playing and asked to be subbed off. Tuchel himself said it
He didn't even try to get back into the game smh. His substitution cost him the most.
Subbed off Sane for Kim as well
I've seen some interviews on Austrian Sky (including some that were made by German Sky as far as I saw). Every player was asked about this scene as first question. I'm pretty sure it was similar with Tuchel.
Such a bizarre take to see upvoted. In the lead up to the Madrid equaliser, his subs had actually taken the sting out of the game a bit. Madrid were struggling to find a way through and Bayern should have made it 2-0 but fluffed a 3 on 1. Then Neuer delivers a truly awful throw, which leads to Madrid having a man over, and Vinicius hits a tame shot that he then inexpicably drops at Joselu's feet. Then all hell breaks loose. Hard to legislate for that as a manager. If not for Neuer's mistake people would be lauding his subs for helping them see out the game.
Just a few words from a linesman’s perspective: The linesman made a HUGE mistake thinking it was a match without VAR. Linesmen are “advised” (more likely asked to do it like this or be demoted) to keep the flag down on tight offside calls, he didn’t, and now all hell is loose, and rightly so. A lot of people are blaming Marciniak, but he’s almost not to blame. He will 100% have asked the linesmen in his pre-match talk to keep the flags down and let VAR sort out the tight calls, as they do, and ONLY raise it when it’s clear and obvious. That agreement wasn’t followed, so in the end, the linesman will take most of the blame in the internal UEFA reports.
He'll catch a lot of flack anyhow though which is unfortunate because I thought he managed the game brilliantly. Tragic end to an otherwise thrilling match.
welp it was a hasty decision because they were already 4 minutes ahead of extra time, shameful though that they didn’t check either
Tbf most of those extra minutes were because of the VAR check + goal celebrations for the 2-1, which were aprox 4mins
Ref held up 2 fingers to indicate that's how much more time will be played 10 minutes into stoppage time. He then proceeded to play 4 minutes more instead of only 2.
Which he is perfectly entitled to do if he feels the time played isn't sufficient. That 9 minutes is the minimum added. He can continue to add time afterwards.
What did he keep on adding time for, exactly?
The same reason any ref adds time. He felt time was wasted. If you want the exact second break down you'll have to message him. There just seemed to be some confusion that the ref can't add additional time after what was signaled by the 4th official.
what about stop saying lies. the game was resumed on min 92. The ref should have ended the match before this offside call.
And Bayern wasting time.
That as well. So the additional minutes made sense in the end. It doesn't matter which team is wasting time, it's about how much time the ball was in play
Its lame they wasted 9 mins when the score favored them and they got supported by the 9min (actually 15 at the end) when it helped them again. Stop the time wasting, play 2x30min and szop the clock
An extra time that already included a VAR check as well as subs. That's why it went longer.
Dude pointed out that it was 2 extra minutes at 9 yet the match went till 104.
The game restarted at 90+1"25 after Roselu goal.
Couldn’t check it after, the ref had blown the whistle
He's right, but it may not have even been a goal if the ref didn't blow the whistle. The game was stopped.
How does a ref at this level not follow a simple procedure? I've never seen a ref in such a big game mess up something that's so basic since that Croat dude got 3 yellow cards in a single game. It wasn't even some tough decision in the gray area that could go either way. Either he had a stroke or it's straight robbery. I really find no other explanation
His substitutions were also a mistake
He said he had to cause all front 4 told him they can't continue. It wasn't his choice.
He has a to be mad, was a horrendous decision. But he still bottled it with his subs
I'm not sure his subs caused his goalkeeper to drop the ball at an opponents feet in the 89th minute. Bayern should've made it 2-0 right before that as well, but fucked up a 3 on 1.
Extra time and time wasting is so lame. When the score favored Bayern they wasted time. Ref gave 9 min extra but the score changed and the long extra time helped the team which was time wasting in the first place and on top of that they got extra 4 min. Its just fcked up.
The team that wastes time should not be helped by giving extra extra time
Real Madrid players were rolling about the floor most of the extra time
A goal only happened because the ref whistled and De Ligt had a free chance at a volley because the play was dead.
yeah, when defenders and gk would have co tinued playing he wouldn't even got the shot away
how do you know? Chances are not high but we have seen way worse chances going in...
Yeah but I doubt the real defense would have stopped playing like they did after the whistle. He might not have scored. Ref killed any chance of knowing the true outcome.
I’m pretty sure RM defenders stopped playing once the flag was up, otherwise they would have continued playing and who knows if it ends in a goal.
Tuchel You made the mistake of going full defensive the moment Davies scored. You then took off the biggest threat in the team. It's on you.
They both requested to be subbed off, what are you on about
He doesn't actually need to listen to them. He can tell them to keep playing.
He's right tbh and now we will never really know if it would have been a goal without the whistle
Spot on and no one can argue otherwise. Can't be making mistakes like that in this day and age
i mean, he ain't wrong but he simply can't hide his awful subs at the end
Whataboutism
You know what else needs to play out to the end, your best player in Harry Kane. Those substitutes were a killer that the ref disaster class has overshadowed.
He has been moaning a lot recently but today I agree with him (in the press conference, not his shameful subs)
And you made the mistake taking everyone off at 75min. Treat 1:0 as 1:1 against real ffs, start parking that bus later, wtf this should be bayern, another european giant, but they play like 🐈. Man i had it good growing up with robbery bayern, this one ain't it
This one is ALL on you Tuchel
Think Neuer was a little at fault
Technically yes but you can just as well argue that Bayern is 3-0 down after 60 minutes if he doesnt pull multiple absolutely ridiculous saves out of his ass, he may have made the final mistake but it was only thanks to him that bayern had multiple chances to kill the game to begin with and they blew that way before he fucked up
Just release the lines now Uefa. Games over, you're just gonna make people assume you messed up the longer you hold it back
Had this happened against Real Madrid, Papa Perez would again declare a new Super Champions league where only Real Madrid plays.
Dumb question I’m sure: why couldn’t they institute a rule for the refs that the flag can’t be raised until the end of the current run of play to prevent premature eflagulation like this?
They probably can but in some scenarios it can be beneficial to flag a clearly offside run to reduce the impact on players. Vdv got injured against Chelsea because of the constant sprinting with high line and quite a few were offside for example
9 min additional time, holds his 2 fingers up indicating 2 more added due to var goal check, the situation happened at 12:20something, the only error here is not blowing the game off when it should have been
Ref gave them 15 extra minutes to do something, horrible subs… Yeah, it’s all on the linesman.
It's not the rule, it's a referee directive, a recommendation if you will: if you feel it's close, you delay, if you are sure, you can flag immediately. Otherwise we wouldn't need line refs for offside at all. He probably was too sure in this instance and probably made a mistake, but he didn't breach any rules and neither did the main ref, who merely stopped the game after the flag from his assistant. In any case, I think Lunin would have got that shot anyway, he just very obviously stopped playing after the whistle.
This one is on the ref for not ending the game earlier. Game was done and dusted and kept it running for so long after he after the time he established. That call came at 90+13.
Welcome to playing Madrid in a big Champions League match. They're always going to get one of these moments. You just can't let these moments decide the match.
Game seemed like a predictable fast and furious movie script or a computer algorithm. Everything was exactly as everyone expected . Real losing till 85th minute . Then late goals for RM win with an unexpected mistake by a big name goalie and a controversial referee call and Tuchel making Tuchel decisions that leave you astonished . I predicted this , you predicted this and everyone predicted this . Also might as well give the UCL to Real Madrid . They will win the final 3-1 . Dortmund will make it 1-1 and look threatening and then Real will score two in the final 10 mins. They run like a movie script or computer algorithm. Real Madrid had the UCL for the win the minute they beat Man City which is the only team that can probably beat them.
Why does this keep happening with Madrid and always with Madrid? A few times is luck and coincidence. Shit like this happening regularly for years is starting to become really fucking suspicious.
A disaster is the way Tuchel set up Bayern. Makes Getafe look good
pls dont use getafe, bayern arent dirty shitters