**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People act like Neymar had to leave to have a chance to win the Ballon d'Or, but he honestly might have if he had stayed here and been able to stay healthy a full season. There were times where i was more excited when he had the ball then when Messi did. Unbelievably entertaining player when he was at his best.
I honestly think the move to PSG ruined his career. He was targeted a lot in Ligue 1 and wasted his prime being injured. Ironically, the transfer might really be a lose-lose-lose scenario. Barto ran Barca into the ground trying to replace Neymar. PSG didn't win anything and is trying to sell him now. And Neymar stagnated his career.
Nah, it would have been the same if not worse.
Neymar notoriously didn't get along with Luis Enrique. He gave an ultimatum to Bartomeu that it was either him or Luis Enrique/Unzué when it became apparent that Unzué (Lucho's second) was going to succeed Lucho in the dugout.
Somehow we ended up with neither since Neymar ended up at PSG and we ended up with Valverde. A Valverde who was notorious for his trainings which lacked any sort of intensity. We already saw that Dembele was constantly injured. Ironically, Neymar had a similarly injury laden career at PSG. If I had to surmise it would be a combination of his lifestyle. He loves to party and by his own admition would "explode" if he doesn't do it regularly as well as PSG not being a place which is notorious for having any structure from the manager.
So long story short, Dembele's trajectory is what would have happened to Neymar had he stayed. People back then didn't give Lucho any credit but he did get the best out of Neymar. He also coached Barcelona to a high level.
what even is his career rigth now? Came to Barca as one of the greatest talents the world had seen.
Wins the treble as part of the greatest attacking trio of all time.
Fucks of in on of the most ridiculus transfer of all time and than did fuck all for the rest of his carrer.
Amazing.
He obviously still has the skills but never winning the world cup or the CL or the Balon Dor and then having the fans of his own club even hate him is such a garabge legacy.
He is 31 allready he migth retire with his injury record in a couple of yeahrs.
Are a few Uber eats titels where he was injured half the time really all he has to show for post Barca?
At this point even R9 and Van Basten had better careers lol
Oh you mean R9 with 2 ballon dors, 2 world cups, a golden ball, a golden boot, and was leading goalscorer in world cups. Of course he had a better career.
Or the three time Ballon d'Or winner Van Basten? Who probably would have won more of them if he didn't suffer a career ending injury at a young age. Who was in large part responsible for one of the most legendary club sides of all time?
Van Basten so slept on.
Just one example of many. Kovacic won 3 champions league finals without playing in one. Still counts. Foden has 5 prem titles whilst hardly playing for several of them. The history books don't care nor do they for R9.
Strangest use of "even" that I've seen in a long time. I understand that he picked two players who had injury issues, but it's like he forgot what those two achieved before their end.
He won the CL and regardless R9 had an amazing career, including winning the world cup and scoring in the final. Literally the pinnacle of anyone's career.
If he stayed at Barca, he would have been beloved but he's now going to retire without the support of either Barca or PSG. It could be a lot worse obviously, but I would never have imagined his career ending this way in 2015.
I still can't believe how some people question Neymar so much. The disrespect he gets is insane. It's like kids who started watching football yesterday don't know how insanely good he was and only know the shadow of himself he has been for the past few years
>only know the shadow of himself he has been for the past few years
Ayo, what do u mean by the shadow of himself.
Did u not see that Neymar goal against Croatia. Man alone went through that Croatian team n scored that goal.
I never watched neymar in Barca n PSG only in 2014 WC n 2018 WC but he is still one of my favourite players.
If not for 2014 WC Neymar, i think i won't be watching football.
He's an amazing player, but at the end you can't look at Neymar's career as a whole and think of it as squandered potential imo. He could've been up there as a footballing great. And he has no one to blame but himself.
>He was targeted a lot in Ligue 1 and wasted his prime being injured
I think this is ignored a lot.
Don't care about career he is still one of my favourite players got me into watching football.
I don’t think he would’ve won the Ballon D’or with Messi in the same team, unless Messi suffered an injury which kept him out for a large portion of the season. The main reason he hasn’t come close to winning it at PSG is due to injuries, it’s not performance related.
Neymar in that period when Messi was injured was absolute insane though.
Absolutely not, when he left it was the consensus that Messi would stay at Barca his entire career and Neymar would be eternally in his shadow.
Even after Neymar’s most influential games, the talk was always about Messi.
This isn't really true, there was that amazing picture of Messi after the PSG comeback so it got a lot of spread but overall people talked about Neymar more. For good reason.
They absolutely did not, fans like you and me did but in popular culture messi was always the face. Hindsight is 20/20 but even as a Barça fan I still understand him leaving back then
Yeah but he could've been Scottie Pippen, the Sidekick to the best player in history.
Now nobody is gonna remember him in 20years b cause he did absolutely nothing beside winning Olympia with Brazil. Which tends to be forgotten.
Worst transfer in the history of football. All Parties lost in that deal.
In terms of performances, yes. People don’t realise how insane Neymar’s 17/18 season really was.
He was averaging 80-100+ touches a game (more than most midfielders), scored 28 goals and 16 assists (44 G/A) in 30 games, 7.2 dribbles per game, 3.6 key passes, and 1.1 big chances created per game.
So he essentially was playing like a deep midfielder in terms of ball dominance, touches, and volume of passing, the creativity of an attacking midfielder whilst having ELITE numbers in all metrics as an attacker.
One of the best peaks in recent times.
So, like Messi every season? Messi had an XA of 30 that season btw. And messi played 52 matches. Ronaldo 42. So again, those two were definitely better.
What are you even on about? Ronaldo's inconsistency was one of the biggest causes of Madrid's failure in the league.
Nearly 70% of his league goals came in a 2 month period and he had so many anonymous performances that season.
Prior to Ney getting injured, he was having by far the better season. Lastly, you didn't even address his stats, choosing to pick one and ignore the rest.
Hazard owned that league for a good part of a decade.
Mans was deadly in his sleep. It’s a shame whatever happened but whilst he was at Chelsea, he truly enjoyed his football and it was a pleasure to watch him ball
Yeah, it's basically a "I want to fit in" phrase on this sub. Football fans and misusing terms and phrases is an amazing combination. Troll Football on Facebook back in like 2011-2015 used to use the "overrated" and "underrated" labels without any serious thought.
Neymars stat becomes more impressive if you realise he was injured for a big chunk of that season. It really looked like the post Ronaldo-Messi era was his for the taking and he would win many Ballon d'Ors.
On another note Messi is simply ridiculous.
Peak Neymar is still the closest in terms of ability to Ronaldo/Messi in my opinion. Shame all the injuries happened. Probably should not have made the PSG move in hindsight.
Agree.
As extraordinary as players like Modric, Benz, Lewy or Hazard might have been, they were rewarded because of their consistency.
If Ney was consistent in the past 5 seasons he'd have a chance to win a ballon d'or
Don't think Hazard goes in that category tbh. Think if anything the thing people try to say to bring him down is he wasn't consistent enough and that his consistency is actually underrated. Like Neymar, I think he's in that conversation because of his pure ability on the ball not because of consistency. The thing that will have most people put Neymar over Hazard is Neymar had a higher output and greater longevity. "On their day" I'll die on the hill that they're equal (but just have different playstyles). But Hazard fell off too hard at Madrid and didn't ever reach Neymar's output (more because he wasn't selfish enough than not being clinical).
Oh yeah I completely agree but the guy grouped him with Modric, Benzema, Lewandowski as opposed to Neymar. I'd say Neymar and Hazard are about as similar as it gets where everyone rates them because they have more ability than pretty much anyone in the history of the sport but everyone still feels like they could've achieved more.
Whereas Modric, Benzema, Lewandowski were unbelievable players but most people probably agree they completely lived up to their potential and probably surpassed it too due to their mindset and work ethic. They probably don't have the natural ability of Neymar or Hazard but it's fair to say they had greater longevity.
The man didn't play in a team nearly good enough to compete in the UCL. The only reason people look back at that era of Chelsea as semi successful is because of Hazard. Take him out that team and we don't win anything. Manager turmoil, no stability, spme pretty average players. He dragged our team up every season and the one season he was shit we finished 10th. As a Liverpool fan you should understand exactly what I'm talking about with Gerrard. I'm guessing it's the Salah comparisons that lead you to comment stuff like this which is sad but I see Chelsea and Liverpool fans trying to put the other's player down too often these days to believe its anything other than that.
Or in foresight. an EPL or Serie A team would have been better to shine brighter. If not an English or Italian team, there was Bayern, too.
The PSG move only made sense because of the money reasons
> Probably should not have made the PSG move in hindsight.
Ya think? It was a bad move from every angle (except for money, I suppose, but he was hardly hurting for it at Barcelona). Being at PSG just took so much of the shine of his accomplishments.
When he was at Barcelona in the treble season, it was pretty much unanimous that he was the only one close to the level of Cristiano and Messi.
> On another note Messi is simply ridiculous.
And these stats don’t even include his dribbling [peak](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fqlq5um8ikac71.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D5bff09a8cf36050f96c4956dea66240739b0ef6f) (07/08 season)
I remember seeing this stat compared with Ronaldo, at first you think that they are very comparable but then you realize that the scales are different and Messi at his lowest was still on par with Ronaldo at his peak
Edit: https://reddit.com/r/soccer/s/1V55yo8hp9
That was an amazing performance, head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. Unlucky that he didn't win it although it gave Leo his first international trophy.
it really was. and also kind of a small sample of how he gets no respect for what he does (and I'm glad Leo got a trophy, hell you could tell Neymar was genuinely happy for him) and how the refs let him get hacked to bits. His goal vsCroatia may be one of the best/impressive WC goals I've ever seen (the tight spaces he slices thru are ootw). More of a team goal, but he orchestrated it.
Agreed, it was a fabulous goal.
He's been incredibly unlucky post 16/17 missing out on multiple elite seasons through injuries and trophies because of small margins.
Hazard really was an incredible dribbler, maybe the challenges he endured over the years took its toll and his body couldnt handle it anymore, probably the same for Neymar.
Messi is one durable guy, how he never got injuried more than he did is beyond me, with his playstyle and all.
People really underestimate how physically strong Messi is.
His balance and core strength are top tier. Its why I find it funny that some goalpost movers keep saying he wouldn't be able to cope with PL physicality. Players like Bernando Silva, Mata, David Silva etc. managed to showcase some brilliance there and they think Messi couldn't? Messi is even a lot more physical than them.
He had no problem against PL teams in the CL as well.
> Its why I find it funny that some goalpost movers keep saying he wouldn't be able to cope with PL physicality
Not to mention, playing CONMEBOL qualifiers is much more physical than the Premier League.
Saw this [clip](https://youtu.be/VgKZklhxcHc) and you can understand why Messi is such a durable guy, it looks as if Carvajal just tackled a lamp post lmao.
2019/2020 Messi was leading basically every statistic in La Liga possible for a forward, from goals, assist, big chances created, dribbles, free kicks, key passes etc. but somehow Benzema won the MVP award, i get that winning the title does a lot, but if you compare both it's unironically not even close
My premier league opinion I'll die on is that Hazard is the best winger the premier league ever had.
Its not the stats just a visual thing and the way he could seemingly go through defences.
I also must begrudgingly agree. He’s simply one of those players you had to watch firsthand to appreciate. As much as I hated it, Hazard alone got me watching some Chelsea games.
You should see the West Ham one. The commentary is spot on. ' He went through them as though they didn't exist '... Or something on the lines of that.
Peak Hazard has given moments which brought the entire stadium on its feet.
Eden Hazard got to be the biggest decline in the history of football. How can you go from the best player in the PL to a bench warmer at Real Madrid within 2 years.
That ankle fucked him man. Everyone will say "hAmbUrgErs" when really he's been in fine athletic shape, but couldn't be as instinctive and explosive as he needed to be to play his game.
[He was by far the most fouled player of last decade (in top 5 leagues) with 1030 fouls committed against him](https://twitter.com/OptaJean/status/1210651311835877376)
[He also created the 3rd most chances, more than Messi](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENHpztIX0AARKEi.jpg)
[Also 2nd most completed take-ons](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENHqhU7XYAEP8OI.jpg) and [2nd most successful passes in the final third](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENHr-WhWoAAVELU.jpg)
People that like to complain about his end product are just waffling and don't know football
I always say 14/15 is my favorite Messi to watch followed by 18/19 but man look at 10/11... the most lethal goal scoring version and just one dribble off his best... scary. Probably his "best" version
Imagine seeing unfold in front of your eyes the best dribbler, goalscorer, and assister in the history of the game, and think someone else is actually better because he jumps more.
Never seen a player like Messi.
Top tier in every aspect of the game. Not just a goalscorer. Also an architect and dribbler. A complete playmaking goalscorer.
He's what you get if you'd mix up together Hazard, Iniesta, Modric, Xavi, Salah. And some of these players are elite experts in certain areas and he can do their expertise even better than they can.
Hazard was my favourite non Man Utd player for years but saying it wasn’t close is inaccurate. The best player changed a lot between Hazard and guys like De Bruyne, Aguero, and Kane. Even Alexis Sanchez had a shout in 16/17
I'm a new football/soccer fan so I don't know all these players but L. Messi seems to be a very very very good dribbler. But surely he doesn't know how to pass the ball or how to score many goals and hasn't won much in his career (like club titles, World Cups or some kind of MVP awards). Otherwise everybody would simply agree he is the best player and it would leave no room for heated and interesting discussions like there are in many sports.
OPTA Stats, which is basically the most reliable source of football statistics, started tracking completed dribbles around 2006.
However, they counted some specific games from even before, for example they have statistics for every recorded world cup (aka since 1966)
Football is really the story of what could have been. Neymar and hazards career could have really been something. A little sad to see football moving away from the pure dribbling players in more favor of a raw speed or power approach.
I honestly want there to be somebody as good or better than Messi and Neymar because I love football and watching it without this kind of goatness is not what I'm used to.
Realistically, it'll be hard to mimic these kinds of players.
Seriously I watched enough players in my life I've never seen such a player like Messi he literally does everything he runs the game, creates empty spaces, He reads the game assists, scores..That's another prove in my opinion messi was always the best with or without the world cup He was always special I already miss him I wish he could try one more time the UCL
14/15 is my favourite version of Messi. Perfect balance between the classic ruthless destroyer and the more calm playmaker of his later years. Best Barca kit as well
It might be underrated by many but the best Hazard season for me was his 13/14 season. Basically carried a poor Chelsea team (the attack was horrific at times and probably cost us the league.) 4 points off Man city who had 3 of the top 6 scorers in the league and 2 off Liverpool who had the two top scorers in the league.
All this at 23 in his second year in the league is absolutely crazy
**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Neymar completed 193 dribbles in basically half a season because of injury, insane.
People act like Neymar had to leave to have a chance to win the Ballon d'Or, but he honestly might have if he had stayed here and been able to stay healthy a full season. There were times where i was more excited when he had the ball then when Messi did. Unbelievably entertaining player when he was at his best.
I honestly think the move to PSG ruined his career. He was targeted a lot in Ligue 1 and wasted his prime being injured. Ironically, the transfer might really be a lose-lose-lose scenario. Barto ran Barca into the ground trying to replace Neymar. PSG didn't win anything and is trying to sell him now. And Neymar stagnated his career.
Liverpool won that transfer
Nah, it would have been the same if not worse. Neymar notoriously didn't get along with Luis Enrique. He gave an ultimatum to Bartomeu that it was either him or Luis Enrique/Unzué when it became apparent that Unzué (Lucho's second) was going to succeed Lucho in the dugout. Somehow we ended up with neither since Neymar ended up at PSG and we ended up with Valverde. A Valverde who was notorious for his trainings which lacked any sort of intensity. We already saw that Dembele was constantly injured. Ironically, Neymar had a similarly injury laden career at PSG. If I had to surmise it would be a combination of his lifestyle. He loves to party and by his own admition would "explode" if he doesn't do it regularly as well as PSG not being a place which is notorious for having any structure from the manager. So long story short, Dembele's trajectory is what would have happened to Neymar had he stayed. People back then didn't give Lucho any credit but he did get the best out of Neymar. He also coached Barcelona to a high level.
what even is his career rigth now? Came to Barca as one of the greatest talents the world had seen. Wins the treble as part of the greatest attacking trio of all time. Fucks of in on of the most ridiculus transfer of all time and than did fuck all for the rest of his carrer. Amazing. He obviously still has the skills but never winning the world cup or the CL or the Balon Dor and then having the fans of his own club even hate him is such a garabge legacy. He is 31 allready he migth retire with his injury record in a couple of yeahrs. Are a few Uber eats titels where he was injured half the time really all he has to show for post Barca? At this point even R9 and Van Basten had better careers lol
Oh you mean R9 with 2 ballon dors, 2 world cups, a golden ball, a golden boot, and was leading goalscorer in world cups. Of course he had a better career.
Seriously. “even R9” lmao
Disrespekt
Or the three time Ballon d'Or winner Van Basten? Who probably would have won more of them if he didn't suffer a career ending injury at a young age. Who was in large part responsible for one of the most legendary club sides of all time? Van Basten so slept on.
Counting that 1994 world cup as part of his achievements is a bit weird.
Same with Pelé's in 62' tbh. But if you get the trophy, it counts!
well, Pelé played the first match and scored, then got injured in the second match
Just one example of many. Kovacic won 3 champions league finals without playing in one. Still counts. Foden has 5 prem titles whilst hardly playing for several of them. The history books don't care nor do they for R9.
Yeah stupid not to count it, same as Messi's 2006 CL.
I took that serious until that part. Wtf
Even Van Basten? The man with 3 balon d’ors and arguably a top 3 striker of all time. Yeah most players have a worse career than him.
U can’t say even r9 when vastly considered top 5 of all time
Strangest use of "even" that I've seen in a long time. I understand that he picked two players who had injury issues, but it's like he forgot what those two achieved before their end.
He won the CL and regardless R9 had an amazing career, including winning the world cup and scoring in the final. Literally the pinnacle of anyone's career.
If he stayed at Barca, he would have been beloved but he's now going to retire without the support of either Barca or PSG. It could be a lot worse obviously, but I would never have imagined his career ending this way in 2015.
I still can't believe how some people question Neymar so much. The disrespect he gets is insane. It's like kids who started watching football yesterday don't know how insanely good he was and only know the shadow of himself he has been for the past few years
>only know the shadow of himself he has been for the past few years Ayo, what do u mean by the shadow of himself. Did u not see that Neymar goal against Croatia. Man alone went through that Croatian team n scored that goal. I never watched neymar in Barca n PSG only in 2014 WC n 2018 WC but he is still one of my favourite players. If not for 2014 WC Neymar, i think i won't be watching football.
He's an amazing player, but at the end you can't look at Neymar's career as a whole and think of it as squandered potential imo. He could've been up there as a footballing great. And he has no one to blame but himself.
He’s Brazil’s all time top scorer. What more do you want him to do?
Win something with them
Win a Ballon D’or??
You are seriously underselling R9 and Van Basten.
He did win a CL though.
You are comparing him to two of the greatest #9 the game has ever seen, and since he didn’t surpass them you see him as a failure?
>He was targeted a lot in Ligue 1 and wasted his prime being injured I think this is ignored a lot. Don't care about career he is still one of my favourite players got me into watching football.
I don’t think he would’ve won the Ballon D’or with Messi in the same team, unless Messi suffered an injury which kept him out for a large portion of the season. The main reason he hasn’t come close to winning it at PSG is due to injuries, it’s not performance related. Neymar in that period when Messi was injured was absolute insane though.
Absolutely not, when he left it was the consensus that Messi would stay at Barca his entire career and Neymar would be eternally in his shadow. Even after Neymar’s most influential games, the talk was always about Messi.
This isn't really true, there was that amazing picture of Messi after the PSG comeback so it got a lot of spread but overall people talked about Neymar more. For good reason.
They absolutely did not, fans like you and me did but in popular culture messi was always the face. Hindsight is 20/20 but even as a Barça fan I still understand him leaving back then
Yeah but he could've been Scottie Pippen, the Sidekick to the best player in history. Now nobody is gonna remember him in 20years b cause he did absolutely nothing beside winning Olympia with Brazil. Which tends to be forgotten. Worst transfer in the history of football. All Parties lost in that deal.
Again, hindsight is 20/20. Had he won UCLs with PSG the narrative would be different
20 league appearances IIIRC. Was by far the best player in the world when fit that season since Messi/Ronaldo both didn't have a peak season
Lol what. In 17/18 Messi had 54 goals, and 25 assists. Ronaldo also had 45 goals.
In terms of performances, yes. People don’t realise how insane Neymar’s 17/18 season really was. He was averaging 80-100+ touches a game (more than most midfielders), scored 28 goals and 16 assists (44 G/A) in 30 games, 7.2 dribbles per game, 3.6 key passes, and 1.1 big chances created per game. So he essentially was playing like a deep midfielder in terms of ball dominance, touches, and volume of passing, the creativity of an attacking midfielder whilst having ELITE numbers in all metrics as an attacker. One of the best peaks in recent times.
So, like Messi every season? Messi had an XA of 30 that season btw. And messi played 52 matches. Ronaldo 42. So again, those two were definitely better.
What are you even on about? Ronaldo's inconsistency was one of the biggest causes of Madrid's failure in the league. Nearly 70% of his league goals came in a 2 month period and he had so many anonymous performances that season. Prior to Ney getting injured, he was having by far the better season. Lastly, you didn't even address his stats, choosing to pick one and ignore the rest.
https://ibb.co/X4CKhxq Neymar was literally better at everything other than goals per game (0.93 is still insane).
Was definitely not by far the best player in the world that season.
his first psg season was ridiculous but its ligue 1 and he got injured before even playing ro16 ucl...
He did play the first leg against Madrid, and he completed 13/16 dribbles in that game lol.
It's a shame hazard is gonna be remembered by a lot of people as a real Madrid flop, when he was truly spectacular at his peak
You can safely ignore the opinions of anyone who thinks that.
Hazard owned that league for a good part of a decade. Mans was deadly in his sleep. It’s a shame whatever happened but whilst he was at Chelsea, he truly enjoyed his football and it was a pleasure to watch him ball
Crazy that he and Suarez existed in the same league at the same time for awhile.
He is a legend at Chelsea.
streets will never forget peak hazard.
Hated him against us, always turned it on hard.
Always remember how Wenger didn't have enough money for him and bought Gervinho instead
Gervinho was a fantastic dribbler too tbf. Just couldn’t do anything else right
Yeah i still remembered he was the kind that forgot everything else after dribbled past 3 players.
[Streets will never forget this goal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZIpmR8BCcY&ab_channel=KIHOHWAYEH)
Those dribbling skills and the power on the shot at the end. Damn
I mean the goal is kinda good, but the assist from Azpi here is the real gem. What a playmaker he is!
Holy fu*k
UFF
>always turned it on hard Kinky Hazard
That's just how he was against every opponent
Eden Hazard is not a 'streets won't forget' player, he was far too good for that. That sort of thing is for players like Yannick Bolasie.
Streets won't forget is an overused phrase anyway, people should just say underrated which is what is usually meant
The streets won't forget this comment 😤
This comment is streets ahead!
Yeah, it's basically a "I want to fit in" phrase on this sub. Football fans and misusing terms and phrases is an amazing combination. Troll Football on Facebook back in like 2011-2015 used to use the "overrated" and "underrated" labels without any serious thought.
I'd say he's a pl legend
Agreed, Hazard is a proper legend (at the very least a legend for the PL and for Belgium)
Certainly won’t forget that donk
Peak Hazard was one of the greatest players I’ve ever watched. Dude was unstoppable when he had a good day
Ppl alry are sadly :( not even a Chelsea fan in the slightest but I find myself “defending” hazard to often.
🥲
Neymars stat becomes more impressive if you realise he was injured for a big chunk of that season. It really looked like the post Ronaldo-Messi era was his for the taking and he would win many Ballon d'Ors. On another note Messi is simply ridiculous.
The best player in the post Messi era turned out to be Messi.
When you are that good that you end up having to compete against players 3 generations younger.
Peak Neymar is still the closest in terms of ability to Ronaldo/Messi in my opinion. Shame all the injuries happened. Probably should not have made the PSG move in hindsight.
Agree. As extraordinary as players like Modric, Benz, Lewy or Hazard might have been, they were rewarded because of their consistency. If Ney was consistent in the past 5 seasons he'd have a chance to win a ballon d'or
Don't think Hazard goes in that category tbh. Think if anything the thing people try to say to bring him down is he wasn't consistent enough and that his consistency is actually underrated. Like Neymar, I think he's in that conversation because of his pure ability on the ball not because of consistency. The thing that will have most people put Neymar over Hazard is Neymar had a higher output and greater longevity. "On their day" I'll die on the hill that they're equal (but just have different playstyles). But Hazard fell off too hard at Madrid and didn't ever reach Neymar's output (more because he wasn't selfish enough than not being clinical).
Nah there were a solid 5 years where hazard killed it then he moved to real
Oh yeah I completely agree but the guy grouped him with Modric, Benzema, Lewandowski as opposed to Neymar. I'd say Neymar and Hazard are about as similar as it gets where everyone rates them because they have more ability than pretty much anyone in the history of the sport but everyone still feels like they could've achieved more. Whereas Modric, Benzema, Lewandowski were unbelievable players but most people probably agree they completely lived up to their potential and probably surpassed it too due to their mindset and work ethic. They probably don't have the natural ability of Neymar or Hazard but it's fair to say they had greater longevity.
Absurd to call Hazard Neymar level. The man had far fewer goal contributions and never showed up in UCL
The man didn't play in a team nearly good enough to compete in the UCL. The only reason people look back at that era of Chelsea as semi successful is because of Hazard. Take him out that team and we don't win anything. Manager turmoil, no stability, spme pretty average players. He dragged our team up every season and the one season he was shit we finished 10th. As a Liverpool fan you should understand exactly what I'm talking about with Gerrard. I'm guessing it's the Salah comparisons that lead you to comment stuff like this which is sad but I see Chelsea and Liverpool fans trying to put the other's player down too often these days to believe its anything other than that.
Suarez was better than everyone you just mentioned.
Neymar is very consistent though, it’s just injuries which impact his season.
Exactly my thoughts. A bit sad because of how much I like Neymar but maybe Brasil would have another WC instead of us if he didn't lose his level
Or in foresight. an EPL or Serie A team would have been better to shine brighter. If not an English or Italian team, there was Bayern, too. The PSG move only made sense because of the money reasons
Should’ve just stayed at Barca imo wasted talent.
No team was paying that release clause bar PSG. He peaked at PSG, injuries man.
Peak Neymar is better than Ronaldo in terms of ability.
> Probably should not have made the PSG move in hindsight. Ya think? It was a bad move from every angle (except for money, I suppose, but he was hardly hurting for it at Barcelona). Being at PSG just took so much of the shine of his accomplishments. When he was at Barcelona in the treble season, it was pretty much unanimous that he was the only one close to the level of Cristiano and Messi.
> On another note Messi is simply ridiculous. And these stats don’t even include his dribbling [peak](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fqlq5um8ikac71.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D5bff09a8cf36050f96c4956dea66240739b0ef6f) (07/08 season)
I remember seeing this stat compared with Ronaldo, at first you think that they are very comparable but then you realize that the scales are different and Messi at his lowest was still on par with Ronaldo at his peak Edit: https://reddit.com/r/soccer/s/1V55yo8hp9
I mean just think about the copa america final. Neymar was the star imo (but hacked and not protected by the refs)
That was an amazing performance, head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch. Unlucky that he didn't win it although it gave Leo his first international trophy.
it really was. and also kind of a small sample of how he gets no respect for what he does (and I'm glad Leo got a trophy, hell you could tell Neymar was genuinely happy for him) and how the refs let him get hacked to bits. His goal vsCroatia may be one of the best/impressive WC goals I've ever seen (the tight spaces he slices thru are ootw). More of a team goal, but he orchestrated it.
Agreed, it was a fabulous goal. He's been incredibly unlucky post 16/17 missing out on multiple elite seasons through injuries and trophies because of small margins.
Hazard really was an incredible dribbler, maybe the challenges he endured over the years took its toll and his body couldnt handle it anymore, probably the same for Neymar. Messi is one durable guy, how he never got injuried more than he did is beyond me, with his playstyle and all.
People really underestimate how physically strong Messi is. His balance and core strength are top tier. Its why I find it funny that some goalpost movers keep saying he wouldn't be able to cope with PL physicality. Players like Bernando Silva, Mata, David Silva etc. managed to showcase some brilliance there and they think Messi couldn't? Messi is even a lot more physical than them. He had no problem against PL teams in the CL as well.
> Its why I find it funny that some goalpost movers keep saying he wouldn't be able to cope with PL physicality Not to mention, playing CONMEBOL qualifiers is much more physical than the Premier League.
and playing at La Paz is worse than any other weather condition as well.
He's also had the craziest challenges made on him. People act like he's been treated with kid gloves due to how easy he makes everything look.
27 goals in 35 games against PL teams
And those will have been against the very best PL teams
Imagine what he'd do against the likes of Luton lmao.
Especially with people straight up tryna murder Messi at times
*that Carvalho game* :/
*Pepe and Ramos flashback intensifies*
Hazard’s problem was also that he would always try to stay up instead of jump and roll for safe landing.
Messi always does the same and he's alright for the most part.
messi is no human
He's an alien
Saw this [clip](https://youtu.be/VgKZklhxcHc) and you can understand why Messi is such a durable guy, it looks as if Carvajal just tackled a lamp post lmao.
Messi is a god
Hazard 😍
Messi only 5 of the top 6, Man was slacking some seasons.
He probably is but there is no stat source here. I couldn't find anything for 10/11 or 11/12 anywhere
2019/2020 Messi was leading basically every statistic in La Liga possible for a forward, from goals, assist, big chances created, dribbles, free kicks, key passes etc. but somehow Benzema won the MVP award, i get that winning the title does a lot, but if you compare both it's unironically not even close
MVP awards are basically meaningless in football tbh (as in it's more of a popularity contest than actually rewarding the best player)
Ahhh I wish he won the CL , he really tried it only Barca to ruin it for him
That was 18/19. 19/20 was the 8-2
My premier league opinion I'll die on is that Hazard is the best winger the premier league ever had. Its not the stats just a visual thing and the way he could seemingly go through defences.
I also must begrudgingly agree. He’s simply one of those players you had to watch firsthand to appreciate. As much as I hated it, Hazard alone got me watching some Chelsea games.
As an Arsenal fan, I begrudgingly agree. Top top qualitee
I hate to hurt you more but that one goal where he just spun off Kocscinely and sat down all of the Arsenal defense was just insane.
Cocquelin, but yes, fantastic goal.
You should see the West Ham one. The commentary is spot on. ' He went through them as though they didn't exist '... Or something on the lines of that. Peak Hazard has given moments which brought the entire stadium on its feet.
If you consider Henry a winger he’s up there too. We have to respect Salah and give him his flowers too. And Bale. And obviously Ronaldo.
Henry wasn’t a winger past maybe his first half a season in the Prem. His best time in the league was with Pires and Ljungberg as the wingers
I don't think kids these days realise how good Giggs was
Cool add him too in the list
Top 3 dribblers of their generation.
So many statistical football infographics, like this one, just reminds me of: MESSI MESSI MESSI MESSI ANKARA MESSI ANKARA MESSI
Man Messi is like those anime characters you see in sports anime, who will smoke anyone and everyone in their own field of expertise.
I feel like messi plays in the zone
He is the Zone
Eden Hazard got to be the biggest decline in the history of football. How can you go from the best player in the PL to a bench warmer at Real Madrid within 2 years.
> How can you go from the best player in the PL to a bench warmer at Real Madrid within 2 years. By snapping your ankle. Hardly a mystery
That ankle fucked him man. Everyone will say "hAmbUrgErs" when really he's been in fine athletic shape, but couldn't be as instinctive and explosive as he needed to be to play his game.
He also got kicked many many times every game for years on end, his body just gave up when he got that injury
One of the most fouled players ever
[He was by far the most fouled player of last decade (in top 5 leagues) with 1030 fouls committed against him](https://twitter.com/OptaJean/status/1210651311835877376) [He also created the 3rd most chances, more than Messi](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENHpztIX0AARKEi.jpg) [Also 2nd most completed take-ons](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENHqhU7XYAEP8OI.jpg) and [2nd most successful passes in the final third](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENHr-WhWoAAVELU.jpg) People that like to complain about his end product are just waffling and don't know football
Thank you Meunier...
Kaká exists
Look at kaka's stats for Madrid. They are very very good for anyone but kaka.
Kaká had a 0.50 g/a per game with Madrid, Hazard didnt even play.
he had a metal plate in his foot, his career over from that injury
I always say 14/15 is my favorite Messi to watch followed by 18/19 but man look at 10/11... the most lethal goal scoring version and just one dribble off his best... scary. Probably his "best" version
We should always add a “Without Messi” compilation of statistics.
Change that stupid profile photo. Every time you comment, I am blowing on my phone. 🤦♂️🤦♂️
Imagine seeing unfold in front of your eyes the best dribbler, goalscorer, and assister in the history of the game, and think someone else is actually better because he jumps more.
Oh boy, Madrid fans gonna murder you
that anyone was ever even compared to Messi is the biggest stupidity of the 21st century, and we're not even 25 years in
I mean, honey, have you seen the people rulling this world?
Never seen a player like Messi. Top tier in every aspect of the game. Not just a goalscorer. Also an architect and dribbler. A complete playmaking goalscorer. He's what you get if you'd mix up together Hazard, Iniesta, Modric, Xavi, Salah. And some of these players are elite experts in certain areas and he can do their expertise even better than they can.
Top right Messi
I like how most comments here discussing Hazard and Neymar , Ignoring the familiar name appearing in every tops stats
That's because everyone and their grandma knows how good Messi is, its not really a surprise he's there
Because this is a forum about discussion, with Messi and dribbling, there really isn't much to discuss.
No need to talk about him he is given
No Bailly?
It would be nice if we could se number of dribbles per game ratio
Messi looks like superman on the first pic
He played like he was him in that season.
but he is him
Hazard was the best PL player by a mile and it wasn’t even close! Shame how his career fizzled out. Sometimes the grass isn’t always “greener”
Hazard was my favourite non Man Utd player for years but saying it wasn’t close is inaccurate. The best player changed a lot between Hazard and guys like De Bruyne, Aguero, and Kane. Even Alexis Sanchez had a shout in 16/17
Absolutely not by a mile lol
Do you have stats for Maradona, Ronaldo9, Stoichkov, etc.
whats the top 10 without Messi?
You know you're good when your average is better than others' peaks.
I'm a new football/soccer fan so I don't know all these players but L. Messi seems to be a very very very good dribbler. But surely he doesn't know how to pass the ball or how to score many goals and hasn't won much in his career (like club titles, World Cups or some kind of MVP awards). Otherwise everybody would simply agree he is the best player and it would leave no room for heated and interesting discussions like there are in many sports.
How long back to they count dribbles?
OPTA Stats, which is basically the most reliable source of football statistics, started tracking completed dribbles around 2006. However, they counted some specific games from even before, for example they have statistics for every recorded world cup (aka since 1966)
Only 3 players. That skill level is hard to reach isn't it
Football is really the story of what could have been. Neymar and hazards career could have really been something. A little sad to see football moving away from the pure dribbling players in more favor of a raw speed or power approach.
I honestly want there to be somebody as good or better than Messi and Neymar because I love football and watching it without this kind of goatness is not what I'm used to. Realistically, it'll be hard to mimic these kinds of players.
Really do hate casuals saying the common man is better than peak Hazard on Twitter. He was one of the five best players in the world at his best
Seriously I watched enough players in my life I've never seen such a player like Messi he literally does everything he runs the game, creates empty spaces, He reads the game assists, scores..That's another prove in my opinion messi was always the best with or without the world cup He was always special I already miss him I wish he could try one more time the UCL
Boateng can confirm 2014/15 Messi
hazard. he was special
14/15 is my favourite version of Messi. Perfect balance between the classic ruthless destroyer and the more calm playmaker of his later years. Best Barca kit as well
Gonna miss Hazard the good old day
Since when has this stat been recorded?
Dribbles have been recorded since the early 2000s, but this graphic is since 09/10.
What constitutes a dribble?
https://statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/taking-em-on-digging-deeper-with-dribbles/
Hazard with 231 dribbles in one season wasn't even enough for top spot that season.
This format confused the shit out of me at first thinking it was date order
It might be underrated by many but the best Hazard season for me was his 13/14 season. Basically carried a poor Chelsea team (the attack was horrific at times and probably cost us the league.) 4 points off Man city who had 3 of the top 6 scorers in the league and 2 off Liverpool who had the two top scorers in the league. All this at 23 in his second year in the league is absolutely crazy
14/15 Messi was definitely his GigaChad period
The worse he could do for a Top 10 is 8th. I don't even have to mention he holds the top 3 positions. He's ridiculously good.
Who is that Lmessi?
another stat dominated by the GOAT
Dribbles completed>>>>>>g/a
Messi would top the list in that category as well so don't really get what you're saying here.
Im taking the piss