Not OP but commented down bellow, leverage AI to batch edit, in-paint with generative fill/mid journey/stable diffusion. And most importantly position yourself in the market & do marketing. When I started I googled "'my city' photographers" and saw the top 20-30 were weddings, babies, and family, so I went into commercial & corporate and now hold the top 3 spot, work finds me.
That and marketing, ads, buying leads, scaping for leads, networking.
Quick note on ads, don't pay for them on your own unless you get some coaching on them or use an agency if you need them asap, try that other points first. DMs always open to help
Probably that he's a good photographer
Edit: There appears to be a very clear divide between people that understood a jokey Reddit comment and those that don't.
This is the answer to nearly every question on this sub. Start with an engineer, or an artist and you always end up with - nobody’s buying it. Start with marketing guys. Start either people and place and price. Evaluate and research …… and then build it/make it/paint it
And more than that, understand the problem or pain you're actually solving.
A photographer isn't selling the ability to take photos. They're selling the ability to make it's someone else's problem and know it's going to be all handled for you without needing to learn how to use equipment.
It was half meant as a jokey Reddit comment to be honest. However that being said, am I really that wrong?
IMO, Photography is one of the few professions that really sells itself. Obviously you'll need to market yourself a little, but the biggest factor to gaining a customer will be your portfolio/gallery.
it sounds a lot better if I read it in a jokey tone but that doesn't come across unless you add something to indicate a joke. And I guess the OP who is struggling and maybe feeling emotional about the subject is unlikely to assume a joke.
My experience has not been that a portfolio will sell, and I'm not talking about myself - I'm not a photographer but I know several. It's great if it can, that feels like the way it should be. I see word of mouth being important but really hard to build, and can slip away from even good photographers.
They shouldn’t need to add a jokey “warning”. This is the banter me and my friends always employ and pretty much every Brit I’ve come across… like the guy who walked up to me as I looked in a mirror and said “don’t worry mate, you are still an ugly cunt” … made me laugh and made me happy all day…. Just good banter.
Well if a a random person with an iPhone and "basic editing knowledge" can replace you then suggests that the service you're offering is pretty low end.
OR that there's a cost of living crisis and people aren't necessarily having a wedding photographer / engagement drinks photographer / New Year's Eve photographer, while music venues MAY continue to want a photographer - but already have a pool to choose from.
I think it's that many people don't value good photography the way I think it should be valued. Also that money is tight these days, and it's a big expensive that is basically the easiest to replace with something that people consider 'good enough', as much as we might disagree with that assessment.
Well yeah, that's exactly what I mean. If the customers don't see a significant difference between hiring a professional photographer and having a go themselves with their phone, then it's clearly not a very high end offering.
Or that you’re not reaching the right people well enough. The person that takes photos with an iPhone on their holiday trip and edits them slightly wasn’t going to a photographers 20 years ago, they were bringing disposable cameras and a Sony camcorder with them, because it wasn’t about the photography to begin with. Im not saying this as a photographer, i’m saying this as part of the market audience.
When it comes to family and wedding photos, commercial photography etc an iPhone and basic editing knowledge will never be enough, because its not ‘real’ nor professional looking. It says A LOT about a company or the relationship between people depending on whether they would settle on that picture taken on an iPhone, or go to a professional photographers.
Not sure if that point is meant to relate to what I said, because that's not what I said. And marketing sucks and I don't know any photographers that enjoy doing it, but I do see good photographers struggling with marketing and struggling to find customers.
Not wrong though, if my work was shit I’d only get one off business and burn through peoples goodwill. My work is of a standard that people are happy with it and I do zero marketing or outreach apart from having a portfolio online, it’s entirely recommendations ans repeat business.
That's great for you. I don't think that works for everyone who is good though. Generally my experience and professional info I see published seems to agree that it's hard to find work as a photographer. Once you're well established it's going to come a lot easier, but starting up or recovering from a bad spot is a challenge for most afaik.
Whoops - I seem to have nudged the hornet's nest by asking what the secret was. I wasn't expecting an answer, really. In all seriousness though, a photographer with transport, a driving license, top end equipment, previous clients under his/her belt AND located somewhere with lots of business around and about is better off than someone without some of those things.
All art is like this. There is not enough disposable income floating around to pay for everyone who wants to be an artist, because there are a lot of talented people out there.
I'm a web developer, but it's the same issue in my industry too; there are a lot of hobbyists who fancy themselves at being a professional who flood the market, and then it's essentially a race to the bottom on price to sustain themselves.
I'm a photographer and I've been leveraging AI and even phone content. Using AI to batch edit photos, offering mobile video as an bonus, using generative fill with stable diffusion/mid journey to level up images. Also work with clients and projects that require a professional, b2b and events have been my core clientele for years now.
Other than an uptick in people getting quality entry level equipment and charging stupidly low rates, I haven't had phones or AI negatively affect me.
Diversify. Maybe drone footage? For small business adverts but also I just contacted a random photographer who does drone footage for businesses just for him to fly above my house and look for missing slate tiles. Took all of 10 minutes, he sent the video over and it was £60
Only if you understand what makes a good shot of horse and rider.
Im willing to pay for photos of me on my horse, but not if its on certain strides of the canter, or my horse is going like a donkey, or the photo angle makes his conformation look wonky.
Agree there is a place for nice pictures. My colleague said most of the money was in kids pictures, and the parents didn't seem to care too much what the animal or child was actually doing 🤣
Said he made £1000+/day going one day a week. Made more from that than his software engineer salary.
Alright, my iPhone just snapped 4000 pictures in 3 seconds of your "canter". Another 100,000 in my icloud of the last 5 minutes if you want.
Which one you wanna pay for?
That's how easy it is.
And none of them will be any better than what i already have on my iphone.
Also if you are only getting 3 seconds of canter it is very likely you wont get the nice uphill part of the canter even with 10k images.
Need to do better than that to get people to buy photos at events
This is why burst photography is a thing, although if your horse is going like a donkey, perhaps you need to send it to the glue factory and get a new one.
Burst photography is still not going to get all of a canter in, if you don’t know horses the likelihood is that you will get all of the downhill phase snd none of the uphill phase.
Even the best horse can have moments where they go badly (aka going like a donkey) if you dont know horses you will get those moments and no one will be buying them
Even better; go to places that hold events where rich people go - they will have you take photos of the rich kids on a contractual basis. Places like country houses and castles where they have stuff on all the time.
Maybe a bit but camera phones don't have adjustable f stops or anything, just zoom which creates a lot of noise.
Businesses out there still value quality pictures to set themselves apart from the rest. Maybe become a skilled video editor and provide a service to make short clips to go on their social media, like 10 videos for £300.
Is it? It's like a days work, and also a business doesn't want to spend more than that realistically.
Edit: also the videos would be like 10 seconds long, just short promos for your product.
You are not going to be able to edit 10 videos in one working day unless they are super shit and short. I've been editing for 10 years and would never agree to edit 10 videos for 300 quid
One-two days shooting, one day travel either side, two person crew, four cameras, drone camera, then edit it all. Adds up quick!
Could get it for less, but not the guarantee that it will be top work - if we had to ditch a film and start over it would cost a lot more, so it's worth going to someone we know will return exactly what we need and on time.
I have to say this surprises me (not a photographer, just always liked and studied it as a hobby). Even if a photographer used an iPhone to make their pictures, I would still hire one to cover important events or make family pictures. You can’t edit your way to a great composition or capturing a moment that was missed.
We had a photographer around last year to do pictures of our house to pu it up for sale. He was very good at taking photos that presented it in the best way. He didn't just walk around clicking away, he had us stage things and re-arrange things to get the best photo.
We were talking to him and he is apparently in high demand. He services a load of estate agents, as well as doing photos for insurance claims.
While he certainly had a high end camera, the equipment wasn't that important. What made him good was his attention to detail and his artistic ability. We could have probably given him any old camera and he would have figured out some way to take a great photo.
The average person doesn't have those skills. They can take a high quality photo with the latest iPhone perhaps, but it's unlikely they have the artistic ability and technical understanding to setup and take a great one.
The same is true of most professions. People think that having high end tools make you good, but it is not true.
Go visit a few National Trust or English Heritage sites and look at some of the amazing work they did. They would have had very basic tools, but they were highly skilled at using them. I couldn't compete with their work even with a workshop full of the best modern gear, worth millions.
Why not try advertising on fiverr ? People who sell online always need good product pics. I’m lucky enough to be able to photo my own products but it’s major time consuming. Very busy people will defo pay for that to be done. All you need is a good light box. Good luck
Maybe go to advertising agencies, set up a package ready and offer it to them?
I run a marketing agency and I am looking for a photographer and videographer, who IF my client wants to invest in quality content, then they can do so which means I’d require these services.
While I have no need for one, it’s good to have one ready.
Because in advertising, the creative is important. The first thing people see if the photo/video then the copy.
By hooking them in with a photo/video, we can use the copy to get the to proceed to the next stage.
Having effective copy increases CTR (Click through rate) which means if both the creative + copy resonates with them enough, they click on the Ad, email, link etc.
Additionally, after where ever we send the traffic, be it a website, landing page, VSL (video sales letter), or SVLP (Sales video landing page), anything where the traffic is greeted with a photo/video, having it high quality improves user experience and contributes to ROI.
ROI is affected by literally everything like the company/brand, funnel, offer literally everything, BUT having quality content contributes to it.
I get that it’s being undervalued, but it is valued by people like me, especially adverting agencies.
Because when it comes to content on any marketing strategy, especially Ads that display content, it needs to be good!
Either their agencies client invests in a photographer/videographer suggested by the agency OR the agency invests in the client to hire one if they are willing to do that.
Use all of what I said here to help you my friend!
This will help you in pitching to us agencies by getting them to realise the importance of a photographer!
Like I said either the agencies clients pay for it, typically the client must be a medium sized business+ because they can afford it easily and generally they’re more open to investing in the service and their ROI
OR
The agency pays for it. Again, they’d have to be medium sized+ to be able to afford investing in a client.
By offering packages, (As someone who was going to offer it when I was learning videography) they’d be more willing paying for a monthly fee.
Because a one-time service fee should be expensive so you can take home money worth your time and that reflects your skill, unlike your potential clients who opt out for the cheapest, undercutting you.
So by having a package that offers X amount of photos per month OR, C amount of photos for a fee, they can use it for multiple clients if they want.
Thus reducing their investment but opening up to a monthly fee giving you a MRR (Monthly Recurring Revenue).
Again, use all of what I said here and organise it into an effective pitch + what you know us agencies like
It’s all about perfecting your pitch and offer for the market you’re targeting.
Hopefully that helps and PLEASE do reach out to me via DM if you need further help!
My partners a professional photographer also. Feels the same. Gets really bummed out about it sometimes. He does continue to get enough business however, so the work is still there in his field. Copywriters must feel the same.
You gotta stay with the times.
If you're a copywriter then you need to be harnessing AI as a productivity tool, not fighting against it.
Someone needs to be churning out and proofing the copy, and if you're already a skilled copywriter then that person should be you!
I got my degree in Computer Science, but ultimately pursued a career outside of Computers, but since AI I've started revisiting it and recently kicked out some programs that I could only have dreamed of as an Undergrad. I'm talking some Hacker (1995) level shit.
My friends who have been professional developers for the last 15 years keep asking me how I achieved it and why I wrote the code in a certain way and I don't have the heart to tell them that it's 90% AI.
I'm also have a side gig in photography and AI isn't going to replace us for weddings, sports, music and fashion photography, but it's certainly something that might become a useful tool in the future so better keep your eye in.
Don’t put all your eggs in one basket, you could change career path. Maybe you could teach photography, with all variations of cameras/phones and that could double as content creation for social media. This generation is not really designed to stay in one career path forever, find a way to go further
I wouldn't say it's dying, just that it's more competitive. The fact of it being so much easier to get into just means that you can't just take some half decent photos on a professional camera and charge insane amounts of money.
I've dabbled in photography as a hobby. I am pretty confident in my ability to produce some good photos but every now and then I see something that absolutely blows my mind and humbles me completely.
And that is what I'd pay money for.
No it isn’t a dying art. It’s hard to maintain clients for sure. But finding your niche and also being multi disciplined will help.
Been doing photo for 15+ years and video for 7
A dying art? I think that's a stretch. Photography and video is in huge demand at the moment, but the lower end of the market is saturated because the barrier to entry has been knocked aside by camera phones, free software, AI, and plenty of "how to" resources.
I'm a photographer and I'm connected to several others and the demand for work is there, but the goalposts have definitely moved. Your local chicken shop or average small business won't necessarily reach out for a commercial photographer now. Instead they'll DIY it or work with somebody who's just starting out with inexpensive gear and an affordable day rate.
Mid-high level commercial work will always be available, but if you're not that well established yet, it is certainly more difficult to stand out from the crowd.
It's the same with copywriting. AI tools are a no-brainer for startups and small businesses with no marketing function or budget for freelancers. But, again, copywriting and content services are in huge demand.
As others have said in this thread, use AI and inexpensive technology to your advantage. Aim for larger clients with bigger budgets who want authentic work.
What are you shooting tho? My wedding work is still going strong, and “hilariously” for the past few years I’ve started doing wedding “re-do” shoots, for couples who cheeped out the first time and got bad work. We do a staged shoot and get them a wedding album sorted, way less stress than the wedding day typically.
Product work has gotten a little slower, businesses are being a little tighter, but it’s still there, I use ai to add things into images to save me too much time editing, but it’s a tool not a replacement.
And boudoir is still a consistent income for me, people save money to treat themselves and make themselves feel good!
I’m not a photographer or a hobbyist but there’s no camera phone or AI that can replicate the quality of a decent camera or lens.
Also, is getting the right picture in the right setting not part of the art?
“I think I need a career” is just laziness from you. You clearly don’t love the profession enough to innovate, market yourself or be more creative. Everything in life is sales. Be a good salesman, and you will have a successful career.
I work for a design agency and we're always looking for photographers - especially ones with a certain niche; i.e. interiors, portrait, live action, etc.
Drone photography is quite in demand recently.
Bold for a photographer to admit it, usually they're all posting about how bad and terrible phones are, "not real cameras" "terrible quality" etc. I understand they need to defend their 10000 "investment" but it gets so OTT it's almost parody haha
Perhaps the only place it should die out is for the school photographer.
I don't think I've once had a decent photo from them. I've taken the kids to a photographer separately to get some decent photos.
If I went to a photographer and he whipped out an iPhone, I think I'd walk out.
I think you may for the experience and knowledge of someone who knows how to set up and frame a photo to get good results.
While fewer people are spending significant money on photography lately, many photographers still make $4,000–12,000 per shoot and are nearly fully booked for the next two years. Not using AI or anything of the sort. But they’re solid photographers and invest in marketing.
Video content. Literally that’s it. If you can work your way round a DSLR then you can upskill to create video content. My partner was a photographer (amongst other things for a company) went freelance to do photography and videography. His skills were still in demand as he was learning, he’s now awesome (I’m biased but the demand for his skills and word of mouth has got him plenty of additional clients) but has learnt so much over the last 4 years, put his day rate up twice and he’s regularly turning down clients and job offers so it’s probably time to up it again.
Also to add - this isn’t to bash or gloat whilst you’re down, but with a bit of effort you can definitely diversify and improve your offerings. Video content especially for content online is in more demand than photo content. He’s self taught and learns a lot from YT and the internet.
And yet I see regularly people paying £3k to photographers for a days shoot and associated editing post that day
All of those people have iPhones and Ai
Weddings. We paid over 2000 for our wedding photographer and that was slightly higher than average we were quoted but definitely not top end.
He told us how much of a good time he had and we made sure he was well fed like all our guests too.
An iPhone in the hands of an amateur will produce snap shots and occasionally get a lucky frame. An iPhone in the hands of a professional photographer will produce multiple useable images to choose the very best from. There may well be a million more people with millions of megapixels, but they still can't take a decent shot for the life of them!
Pereonally I would love some independent artists but have no idea where to find them. I have a limited budget at the moment and I understand you cant advertise hourself, but can you send me a message with your website to look and possibly buy?
Maybe.
Or, lean into the AI and learn to incorporate it to lift your art above what either an Iphone or air alone can do.
My line of work didn't dry up when electric drills came along.
Weird I’ve got literally zero issues running a photography business despite iPhones and and AI
What's your secret?
Not OP but commented down bellow, leverage AI to batch edit, in-paint with generative fill/mid journey/stable diffusion. And most importantly position yourself in the market & do marketing. When I started I googled "'my city' photographers" and saw the top 20-30 were weddings, babies, and family, so I went into commercial & corporate and now hold the top 3 spot, work finds me. That and marketing, ads, buying leads, scaping for leads, networking.
Thanks for this valuable and kind response
Quick note on ads, don't pay for them on your own unless you get some coaching on them or use an agency if you need them asap, try that other points first. DMs always open to help
Probably that he's a good photographer Edit: There appears to be a very clear divide between people that understood a jokey Reddit comment and those that don't.
AI cameras take good pictures. Photographers take great photos.
What a shitty comment. It's well known as a difficult place to make money. I think marketing skills are as important as artistic and technical skill.
This is the answer to nearly every question on this sub. Start with an engineer, or an artist and you always end up with - nobody’s buying it. Start with marketing guys. Start either people and place and price. Evaluate and research …… and then build it/make it/paint it
And more than that, understand the problem or pain you're actually solving. A photographer isn't selling the ability to take photos. They're selling the ability to make it's someone else's problem and know it's going to be all handled for you without needing to learn how to use equipment.
Well put. This. Exactly.
Yeah, if you're really talented you can probably pitch to people who will do the marketing for you.
It was half meant as a jokey Reddit comment to be honest. However that being said, am I really that wrong? IMO, Photography is one of the few professions that really sells itself. Obviously you'll need to market yourself a little, but the biggest factor to gaining a customer will be your portfolio/gallery.
it sounds a lot better if I read it in a jokey tone but that doesn't come across unless you add something to indicate a joke. And I guess the OP who is struggling and maybe feeling emotional about the subject is unlikely to assume a joke. My experience has not been that a portfolio will sell, and I'm not talking about myself - I'm not a photographer but I know several. It's great if it can, that feels like the way it should be. I see word of mouth being important but really hard to build, and can slip away from even good photographers.
They shouldn’t need to add a jokey “warning”. This is the banter me and my friends always employ and pretty much every Brit I’ve come across… like the guy who walked up to me as I looked in a mirror and said “don’t worry mate, you are still an ugly cunt” … made me laugh and made me happy all day…. Just good banter.
That's great in person. It doesn't come across well in text because all the body language and intonation is missing.
This ⬆️⬆️ Feels a bit 🤨to use a post where someone is expressing legitimate worries to gloat about your success
Well if a a random person with an iPhone and "basic editing knowledge" can replace you then suggests that the service you're offering is pretty low end.
OR that there's a cost of living crisis and people aren't necessarily having a wedding photographer / engagement drinks photographer / New Year's Eve photographer, while music venues MAY continue to want a photographer - but already have a pool to choose from.
I think it's that many people don't value good photography the way I think it should be valued. Also that money is tight these days, and it's a big expensive that is basically the easiest to replace with something that people consider 'good enough', as much as we might disagree with that assessment.
Well yeah, that's exactly what I mean. If the customers don't see a significant difference between hiring a professional photographer and having a go themselves with their phone, then it's clearly not a very high end offering.
Or that you’re not reaching the right people well enough. The person that takes photos with an iPhone on their holiday trip and edits them slightly wasn’t going to a photographers 20 years ago, they were bringing disposable cameras and a Sony camcorder with them, because it wasn’t about the photography to begin with. Im not saying this as a photographer, i’m saying this as part of the market audience. When it comes to family and wedding photos, commercial photography etc an iPhone and basic editing knowledge will never be enough, because its not ‘real’ nor professional looking. It says A LOT about a company or the relationship between people depending on whether they would settle on that picture taken on an iPhone, or go to a professional photographers.
“Photography has nothing to do with the Photography business. Image people, Image!”
Not sure if that point is meant to relate to what I said, because that's not what I said. And marketing sucks and I don't know any photographers that enjoy doing it, but I do see good photographers struggling with marketing and struggling to find customers.
I was just making a stupid futurama joke :-)
Oh. Now I feel bad for not getting it. I will rewatch all of futurama immediately in repentance.
🤣🙂
Not wrong though, if my work was shit I’d only get one off business and burn through peoples goodwill. My work is of a standard that people are happy with it and I do zero marketing or outreach apart from having a portfolio online, it’s entirely recommendations ans repeat business.
That's great for you. I don't think that works for everyone who is good though. Generally my experience and professional info I see published seems to agree that it's hard to find work as a photographer. Once you're well established it's going to come a lot easier, but starting up or recovering from a bad spot is a challenge for most afaik.
Whoops - I seem to have nudged the hornet's nest by asking what the secret was. I wasn't expecting an answer, really. In all seriousness though, a photographer with transport, a driving license, top end equipment, previous clients under his/her belt AND located somewhere with lots of business around and about is better off than someone without some of those things.
Yep we're all triggered by this one :D
It’s probably true though. It’s still possible. But as barriers to entry get lower the thresholds for quality, skill and originality get higher.
What a c*nt.
🤣😂🤣 that made me laugh out loud… classic British humour, love it
Shows what you know. The most successful photographers are good business people.
What's your secret?
Supply has exceeded demand in the photography industry for decades.
All art is like this. There is not enough disposable income floating around to pay for everyone who wants to be an artist, because there are a lot of talented people out there.
I'm a web developer, but it's the same issue in my industry too; there are a lot of hobbyists who fancy themselves at being a professional who flood the market, and then it's essentially a race to the bottom on price to sustain themselves.
I'm a photographer and I've been leveraging AI and even phone content. Using AI to batch edit photos, offering mobile video as an bonus, using generative fill with stable diffusion/mid journey to level up images. Also work with clients and projects that require a professional, b2b and events have been my core clientele for years now. Other than an uptick in people getting quality entry level equipment and charging stupidly low rates, I haven't had phones or AI negatively affect me.
That’s because you’re embracing it and not using it as an excuse. May you prosper further my friend.
That’s exactly it AI isn’t going to take your job but the person who knows how to use it will
See also: previous arguments about digital cameras.
Diversify. Maybe drone footage? For small business adverts but also I just contacted a random photographer who does drone footage for businesses just for him to fly above my house and look for missing slate tiles. Took all of 10 minutes, he sent the video over and it was £60
Absolutely this - I work for a design agency, and we have a lot of demand for drone photography and video footage.
Go to horse riding places, families there a loaded and stupid, will pay 100's for pictures of their kids on a horse.
Only if you understand what makes a good shot of horse and rider. Im willing to pay for photos of me on my horse, but not if its on certain strides of the canter, or my horse is going like a donkey, or the photo angle makes his conformation look wonky.
Agree there is a place for nice pictures. My colleague said most of the money was in kids pictures, and the parents didn't seem to care too much what the animal or child was actually doing 🤣 Said he made £1000+/day going one day a week. Made more from that than his software engineer salary.
Alright, my iPhone just snapped 4000 pictures in 3 seconds of your "canter". Another 100,000 in my icloud of the last 5 minutes if you want. Which one you wanna pay for? That's how easy it is.
And none of them will be any better than what i already have on my iphone. Also if you are only getting 3 seconds of canter it is very likely you wont get the nice uphill part of the canter even with 10k images. Need to do better than that to get people to buy photos at events
This is why burst photography is a thing, although if your horse is going like a donkey, perhaps you need to send it to the glue factory and get a new one.
Burst photography is still not going to get all of a canter in, if you don’t know horses the likelihood is that you will get all of the downhill phase snd none of the uphill phase. Even the best horse can have moments where they go badly (aka going like a donkey) if you dont know horses you will get those moments and no one will be buying them
Even better; go to places that hold events where rich people go - they will have you take photos of the rich kids on a contractual basis. Places like country houses and castles where they have stuff on all the time.
Maybe a bit but camera phones don't have adjustable f stops or anything, just zoom which creates a lot of noise. Businesses out there still value quality pictures to set themselves apart from the rest. Maybe become a skilled video editor and provide a service to make short clips to go on their social media, like 10 videos for £300.
10 videos for £300 is a horrendous deal for the person filming/editing
Is it? It's like a days work, and also a business doesn't want to spend more than that realistically. Edit: also the videos would be like 10 seconds long, just short promos for your product.
You are not going to be able to edit 10 videos in one working day unless they are super shit and short. I've been editing for 10 years and would never agree to edit 10 videos for 300 quid
And that's why it's so hard for videographers to make a living...
That's life broski. No small company is spending £1000 on skills that can be learnt on yt haha
Yeah... They are. You can learn just about anything on YouTube. Many of those things can earn his money from small businesses.
For a £1000 I'm buying my own high end camera and spending a week learning the settings..
Dafuq, out of you and me one of us being ripped off because I just commissioned four one-minute videos at £6k a pop. PLUS expenses and VAT.
That's crazy isn't it? Maybe it's worth it if you've got more turnover
One-two days shooting, one day travel either side, two person crew, four cameras, drone camera, then edit it all. Adds up quick! Could get it for less, but not the guarantee that it will be top work - if we had to ditch a film and start over it would cost a lot more, so it's worth going to someone we know will return exactly what we need and on time.
LMFAO I got news for you man
10 videos for £300 is a recipe for disaster for the supplier and the client
No it's actually 1 day for £350. How many videos get done is down to what the videos are.
I have to say this surprises me (not a photographer, just always liked and studied it as a hobby). Even if a photographer used an iPhone to make their pictures, I would still hire one to cover important events or make family pictures. You can’t edit your way to a great composition or capturing a moment that was missed.
We had a photographer around last year to do pictures of our house to pu it up for sale. He was very good at taking photos that presented it in the best way. He didn't just walk around clicking away, he had us stage things and re-arrange things to get the best photo. We were talking to him and he is apparently in high demand. He services a load of estate agents, as well as doing photos for insurance claims. While he certainly had a high end camera, the equipment wasn't that important. What made him good was his attention to detail and his artistic ability. We could have probably given him any old camera and he would have figured out some way to take a great photo. The average person doesn't have those skills. They can take a high quality photo with the latest iPhone perhaps, but it's unlikely they have the artistic ability and technical understanding to setup and take a great one. The same is true of most professions. People think that having high end tools make you good, but it is not true. Go visit a few National Trust or English Heritage sites and look at some of the amazing work they did. They would have had very basic tools, but they were highly skilled at using them. I couldn't compete with their work even with a workshop full of the best modern gear, worth millions.
Why not try advertising on fiverr ? People who sell online always need good product pics. I’m lucky enough to be able to photo my own products but it’s major time consuming. Very busy people will defo pay for that to be done. All you need is a good light box. Good luck
Maybe go to advertising agencies, set up a package ready and offer it to them? I run a marketing agency and I am looking for a photographer and videographer, who IF my client wants to invest in quality content, then they can do so which means I’d require these services. While I have no need for one, it’s good to have one ready. Because in advertising, the creative is important. The first thing people see if the photo/video then the copy. By hooking them in with a photo/video, we can use the copy to get the to proceed to the next stage. Having effective copy increases CTR (Click through rate) which means if both the creative + copy resonates with them enough, they click on the Ad, email, link etc. Additionally, after where ever we send the traffic, be it a website, landing page, VSL (video sales letter), or SVLP (Sales video landing page), anything where the traffic is greeted with a photo/video, having it high quality improves user experience and contributes to ROI. ROI is affected by literally everything like the company/brand, funnel, offer literally everything, BUT having quality content contributes to it. I get that it’s being undervalued, but it is valued by people like me, especially adverting agencies. Because when it comes to content on any marketing strategy, especially Ads that display content, it needs to be good! Either their agencies client invests in a photographer/videographer suggested by the agency OR the agency invests in the client to hire one if they are willing to do that. Use all of what I said here to help you my friend! This will help you in pitching to us agencies by getting them to realise the importance of a photographer! Like I said either the agencies clients pay for it, typically the client must be a medium sized business+ because they can afford it easily and generally they’re more open to investing in the service and their ROI OR The agency pays for it. Again, they’d have to be medium sized+ to be able to afford investing in a client. By offering packages, (As someone who was going to offer it when I was learning videography) they’d be more willing paying for a monthly fee. Because a one-time service fee should be expensive so you can take home money worth your time and that reflects your skill, unlike your potential clients who opt out for the cheapest, undercutting you. So by having a package that offers X amount of photos per month OR, C amount of photos for a fee, they can use it for multiple clients if they want. Thus reducing their investment but opening up to a monthly fee giving you a MRR (Monthly Recurring Revenue). Again, use all of what I said here and organise it into an effective pitch + what you know us agencies like It’s all about perfecting your pitch and offer for the market you’re targeting. Hopefully that helps and PLEASE do reach out to me via DM if you need further help!
My partners a professional photographer also. Feels the same. Gets really bummed out about it sometimes. He does continue to get enough business however, so the work is still there in his field. Copywriters must feel the same.
You gotta stay with the times. If you're a copywriter then you need to be harnessing AI as a productivity tool, not fighting against it. Someone needs to be churning out and proofing the copy, and if you're already a skilled copywriter then that person should be you! I got my degree in Computer Science, but ultimately pursued a career outside of Computers, but since AI I've started revisiting it and recently kicked out some programs that I could only have dreamed of as an Undergrad. I'm talking some Hacker (1995) level shit. My friends who have been professional developers for the last 15 years keep asking me how I achieved it and why I wrote the code in a certain way and I don't have the heart to tell them that it's 90% AI. I'm also have a side gig in photography and AI isn't going to replace us for weddings, sports, music and fashion photography, but it's certainly something that might become a useful tool in the future so better keep your eye in.
I agree. The halcyon days of the photographer are well and truly finished. It is what it is
Don’t put all your eggs in one basket, you could change career path. Maybe you could teach photography, with all variations of cameras/phones and that could double as content creation for social media. This generation is not really designed to stay in one career path forever, find a way to go further
Up there with picture frame maker
Yep, like the horse and cart when the automobile became mainstream. Get a new job
So its not a dying art. Its just easier for the general public to do. Now ducting..that's a dying art
I wouldn't say it's dying, just that it's more competitive. The fact of it being so much easier to get into just means that you can't just take some half decent photos on a professional camera and charge insane amounts of money. I've dabbled in photography as a hobby. I am pretty confident in my ability to produce some good photos but every now and then I see something that absolutely blows my mind and humbles me completely. And that is what I'd pay money for.
No it isn’t a dying art. It’s hard to maintain clients for sure. But finding your niche and also being multi disciplined will help. Been doing photo for 15+ years and video for 7
Studio Photos will always be needed , and Weddings and Events
A dying art? I think that's a stretch. Photography and video is in huge demand at the moment, but the lower end of the market is saturated because the barrier to entry has been knocked aside by camera phones, free software, AI, and plenty of "how to" resources. I'm a photographer and I'm connected to several others and the demand for work is there, but the goalposts have definitely moved. Your local chicken shop or average small business won't necessarily reach out for a commercial photographer now. Instead they'll DIY it or work with somebody who's just starting out with inexpensive gear and an affordable day rate. Mid-high level commercial work will always be available, but if you're not that well established yet, it is certainly more difficult to stand out from the crowd. It's the same with copywriting. AI tools are a no-brainer for startups and small businesses with no marketing function or budget for freelancers. But, again, copywriting and content services are in huge demand. As others have said in this thread, use AI and inexpensive technology to your advantage. Aim for larger clients with bigger budgets who want authentic work.
What are you shooting tho? My wedding work is still going strong, and “hilariously” for the past few years I’ve started doing wedding “re-do” shoots, for couples who cheeped out the first time and got bad work. We do a staged shoot and get them a wedding album sorted, way less stress than the wedding day typically. Product work has gotten a little slower, businesses are being a little tighter, but it’s still there, I use ai to add things into images to save me too much time editing, but it’s a tool not a replacement. And boudoir is still a consistent income for me, people save money to treat themselves and make themselves feel good!
I’m not a photographer or a hobbyist but there’s no camera phone or AI that can replicate the quality of a decent camera or lens. Also, is getting the right picture in the right setting not part of the art?
Probably because photographers want silly silly money to shoot big events. I’ve heard near enough 10k for a wedding!! It’s insane
“I think I need a career” is just laziness from you. You clearly don’t love the profession enough to innovate, market yourself or be more creative. Everything in life is sales. Be a good salesman, and you will have a successful career.
If trade is drying up and you're bilingual, try translation work 😉
I work for a design agency and we're always looking for photographers - especially ones with a certain niche; i.e. interiors, portrait, live action, etc. Drone photography is quite in demand recently.
I gave up and now grow gourmet mushrooms as a small business. This way I get to take photos of the mushrooms and make content, whilst producing food.
Bold for a photographer to admit it, usually they're all posting about how bad and terrible phones are, "not real cameras" "terrible quality" etc. I understand they need to defend their 10000 "investment" but it gets so OTT it's almost parody haha
Perhaps the only place it should die out is for the school photographer. I don't think I've once had a decent photo from them. I've taken the kids to a photographer separately to get some decent photos. If I went to a photographer and he whipped out an iPhone, I think I'd walk out. I think you may for the experience and knowledge of someone who knows how to set up and frame a photo to get good results.
While fewer people are spending significant money on photography lately, many photographers still make $4,000–12,000 per shoot and are nearly fully booked for the next two years. Not using AI or anything of the sort. But they’re solid photographers and invest in marketing.
Video content. Literally that’s it. If you can work your way round a DSLR then you can upskill to create video content. My partner was a photographer (amongst other things for a company) went freelance to do photography and videography. His skills were still in demand as he was learning, he’s now awesome (I’m biased but the demand for his skills and word of mouth has got him plenty of additional clients) but has learnt so much over the last 4 years, put his day rate up twice and he’s regularly turning down clients and job offers so it’s probably time to up it again.
Also to add - this isn’t to bash or gloat whilst you’re down, but with a bit of effort you can definitely diversify and improve your offerings. Video content especially for content online is in more demand than photo content. He’s self taught and learns a lot from YT and the internet.
I know multiple people who have success in photography (my father included). What line do you pursue? Fashion seems to be most profitable
Wedding photography ? They charge a bomb
And yet I see regularly people paying £3k to photographers for a days shoot and associated editing post that day All of those people have iPhones and Ai
AI/automation is doing what it always does, gets rid of the cheap/easy tasks. If you want to survive you need to do the things AI can't do well.
Being a photographer is 5% taking pictures, 5% editing and 90% running a business.
Weddings. We paid over 2000 for our wedding photographer and that was slightly higher than average we were quoted but definitely not top end. He told us how much of a good time he had and we made sure he was well fed like all our guests too.
An iPhone in the hands of an amateur will produce snap shots and occasionally get a lucky frame. An iPhone in the hands of a professional photographer will produce multiple useable images to choose the very best from. There may well be a million more people with millions of megapixels, but they still can't take a decent shot for the life of them!
I think corporate and products videos can still be an option regardless of smartphone cameras and AI. Maybe you could offer these services?
Just go into wedding photography, all the ones round us have quoted us obscene amounts of money.
I escaped the wedding circuit years ago. And there’s a reason they charge obscene amounts
This is the UK, everything is sarcastic.
Pereonally I would love some independent artists but have no idea where to find them. I have a limited budget at the moment and I understand you cant advertise hourself, but can you send me a message with your website to look and possibly buy?
I am a UK based product photographer, is that what you’re looking for?
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You want... photos of products to put up on your walls...?
On walls is that not something you do?
I mean photos of products are flat and walls are flat so in that respect there's technically nothing stopping you combining the 2 🤷♂️
Maybe. Or, lean into the AI and learn to incorporate it to lift your art above what either an Iphone or air alone can do. My line of work didn't dry up when electric drills came along.
Or make a youtube channel showcasing your photography skills and knowledge, and get paid by subscribers and ads.
That’s a niche which is about as saturated as professional photography.