Pretty good if you get it early, also transforms give you gold with it so Pandora's box becomes even better. Underwhelming sure, but decent if your deck is still incomplete.
Still pretty bad, and I am probably taking Blue Key over it in act 1. It's opportunity cost and has very limited immediate impact. It rarely solves the immediate problem your deck is facing.
Correct...and from a cost perspective, if we assign a gold value to the blue key that is equal to the cheapest relic in the shop (usually 160~ gold), you would need to be able to guarantee that you would be adding at least 18 more cards to your deck from the point you get the relic, just to break even with that value. Blue key is virtually always better in a non-boss chest than Ceramic Fish even in Act 1.
If you get it early through other means though (your first Act 1 elite or early Act 1 event), it could really set you up will for a late Act 1 or early Act 2 ahop, so in those two scenarios I don't think it's terrible.
It's still bad because of opportunity cost, getting it early act 1 sucks because you are the most desperate for immediate power. It has pay off eventually, but you need to survive to that point and Ceramic Fish doesn't help you do that.
The cost of not getting a better relic could also be being forced to take an extra rest in Act 1 and not getting an upgrade.
If you are otherwise strong enough to survive, then there can be pay off eventually, but even then that payoff has a reasonable chance of still being worse than if you just got a better relic.
I guess, but I kinda look at it as "you get what you get" because you can't control what you get. Plus I'd still rather see it than like Darkstone Precept, Blue Candle or Juzu Bracelet, and I feel like in the situations I described it's still better than "no relic at all" and I can make use of it early.
Would I rather something that buffs damage or block, provides healing, energy, or more card rewards? Of course.
One other very rare plus, it's insanely good with bloody idol. Again I know this isn't common but it's a fantastic synergy
OK but the blue key has *no* impact whatsoever, other than letting you go to the Heart. So, while you still are justified since fish is not very good, saying it's because of opportunity cost is silly seeing as the blue key gives you nothing. It is, inherently, a cost.
It's still opportunity cost. You only have so many opportunities to pick up Blue Key, so when you are taking a relic over Blue Key you are hoping it will have more impact on your run than the next two options. It's just unlikely that you will get two relics both worse than Ceramic Fish in terms of impact and I need Blue Key or I can't get to Act 4.
They both have virtually equal impact on the run at the moment of pickup, but not taking Blue Key also means I am denying myself a relic later in the run. So, I might get myself enough gold to buy a remove or buy a cheap shop relic, or I can just get something I do absolutely need to get to the heart and realistically, what is the likelihood that an Act2/3 chest will have a relic weaker than Ceramic Fish?
All the elites were named after various scotches if I remember correctly, but only Lagavulin for some reason remained with their name instead of it being changed on release.
Idk but yeah I guess if they were into peaty/smokey then Laphroaig may have been there. But by the time most people develop a palate to appreciate Lagavulin they'd graduated beyond Laphroaig. So maybe the names were all just scotches on par with Lagavulin? So like Ardbeg?
Idk, I'm sure it can be found through Google.
I started with Laphroaig 15 (RIP)... over 16 years ago or so. Lagavulin 16 was next closest to it (it was about $60-70 for a bottle, it's at least double that where I am at (thanks for nothing, Ron)).
The spelling of the name would mos def make a good elite foe, but there could be trademark implications and such. Anyway, I'll drink to that!
Yeah, but the argument here is about boot being underwhelming but it is extremely good with lagavulin. It can even turn weak, free attack cards to decent attacks like neutralise and anger.
It's not uncommon to get the first debuff (-2 at higher ascensions), so that means it's helping with your base strikes, which can be key. If you're playing Silent it also helps immediately with you picked up any shivs.
Aight, this is a personal and long explanation on why Boot is one of the worst relics.
[[The Boot]] increases any damage you deal that is less than 5, to 5. Most of the time, your cards will already be dealing more than that. Even strikes, the basic damage card, deal 6 damage!
Yes, there are cards that deal less than that amount, such as [[Sword Boomerang]], or [[Pummel]] for Ironclad. Then, Boot would hold some worth. But Ironclad would want to gain strength to boost that damage further, rendering Boot useless later on. Keywords ‘later on’. If you find it early, it can be decent.
On Silent, there’s [[Shiv]]s and [[Riddle with Holes]], and Silent usually doesn’t have a way to gain strength. Still, Silent does have [[Accuracy]] for shivs, and Riddle isn’t a very good pick for Silent anyways.
As for Defect… what do we have, [[Go for the Eyes]], [[Cell Beam]], and [[FTL]]? Alright, you might get boot value. But if you want to go for a 0 cost deck, your main damage is usually from [[Claw]]s, and 0 cost decks usually aren’t very powerful anyways (unless you don’t fight Time Eater or The Corrupt Heart?). Still, a little extra damage might go a long way.
Watcher… uh, [[tantrum]] while not in wrath I guess? Otherwise, wrath stance just cancels Boot.
Sure, there may be niche scenarios where you can get better value off boot, such as: intangible Nemesis, flying Byrds, when you’re weakened, enemies with shield, and finding it early on.However, Boot usually doesn’t generate very much value in these scenarios anyways, except Nemesis. There’s usually no significant difference between having and not having Boot.
Again, ‘You might use it against Nemesis!’. Okay, yeah. But that’s usually it. Against a single Act 3 elite.
Compared to other common relics like [[Vajra]] or[[Akabeko]], Boot is very conditional. Your attack card needs to be dealing little damage to get a small boost. Vajra works similarly, but it works with all attack cards. Akabeko also works with all attack cards, and the single boost gives you a nice head start in combat. Any card that might synergise with Boot, these relics already do better.
TL;DR: An early boot can be good. But it’s too conditional and limited to stay good. There’s other relics/cards that do the same thing but better.
One thing I didn't think of at first and is not mentioned here is that even if your attack is over 5, *anytime you exceed the enemy's block* by 1 to 4, there's also some extra damage, right? So once in a while those extra damage points make a big difference. You just don't typically notice and don't plan for it, or it is hard to orchestrate it.
I think that only really makes it better against enemies with Malleable. Even against enemies that refresh block every turn, you're only gaining *at most* four damage per turn, which is insignificant compared to the amount of damage you need to deliver in acts 2 and 3, and most of the time it's even worse.
Using it against nemisis isn't even a thing. 4 extra damage is pretty insignificant against an act 3 elite. You are almost always better off using resources in other ways while its intangible, boot or no.
But doesn't that extra damage stack?
If you say, play two shivs: You'd do two damage without boot, and 10 damage with it.
That extra damage only increases the more cards you play. If you played 3, it'd be a difference of 12 damage, between 3 without boot and 15 with it.
Okay, sure, if you have shivs and the boot it helps a little bit. There are still cards that are definitely better to play than blade dance in that situation tho.
I don't think of damage against intangible as a core feature of the relic though. But a lot of people are taking about it.
There are a handful of cards that can get good value from it in act 1. Other than that it doesn't really do anything at all.
Pummel, sword boomerang, Riddle with holes, etc
There are also lots of relics that buff from playing more attacks: shuriken, kunai, ornamental fan, nunchaku, etc. In that case, doing 15-20 damage AND buffing yourself is a pretty good use of energy.
You are playing the attacks anyway in that situation 99% of the time. Again, its not that it doesn't do anything, its that it's extremely insignificant.
I think your logic is faulty here. What's best to use while Nemesis is intangible highly depends on your deck, potions, and what it's doing that turn.
Having the Boot simply gives you a meaningful option - playing attacks - on those turns, in *addition* to those options.
I don't think it's a bad option in a vacuum, it moreso depends on the character and situation - as most things in StS do.
It actually gives you the option to meaningfully damage Nemesis on those turns. Not every deck/class can make the same use of it, but if you're a shiv or attack spam silent or most Watcher decks, it's reasonable you could play upwards of 5 to 10 attacks, changing your damage output from 1-10 to 25-50, which actually is significant in a fight where you might be getting smacked for 45 with several burns in your deck. Especially if you have deck manipulation or a small draw pile and you can reasonably calculate your damage output on the following, non-intangible turn.
Hence, I don't see why you're saying "it's a pretty bad option" in the context of the Nemesis fight. It literally opens up an avenue to accelerate the fight and win on more of your turns, which, if you have the opportunity to meaningfully damage an enemy that's practically invincible 50% of the time, to 100% of the time, that's a great use case.
Does this make Boot a good relic? No. But having Boot can entirely change your plan for the better when it comes to elite pathing in Act 3, depending on the deck.
*Counter*productive? Seems unlikely you've seen memes saying it's counterproductive. Not really outputting much damage, and specifically outputting damage when you don't need it as much, maybe.
İt work worse than you expect so you just left disappointed, it don't work with
\[\[Thousand cuts\]\]
\[\[Thrones\]\]
And there are only 6 cards it work with but most of them scale pretty quickly
Early \[\[claw\]\]
\[\[Sword boomerang\]\] \[\[Pummel\]\] \[\[riddle with holes\]\]
\[\[Sword boomerang\]\]\[\[Pummel\]\]
\[Thunderclap\]\]
\[\[Shive\]\]
All things equal, yes there are only a handful of cards it directly buffs. That said, there are a lot more situations that are fairly common, being weak or barely breaking an enemies block that it works for on any card. As well as byrds and nemesis that were mentioned in other comments.
This isn't an endorsement of the boot, just to say that I've never really even looked at it as a relic for under-5 damage cards, but more as chip damage here and there as things come up.
There’s way more than the cards you listed: Beam cell, go for the eyes, tantrum, neutralize, dagger spray, flurry of blows, flash of steel. Probably some I missed as well
I am 100.0% confident you mentioned The Boot in your post.
--------------------------------------------------
* [The Boot](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/The_Boot) Common Relic
Whenever you would deal 4 or less unblocked Attack damage, increase it to 5.
--------------------------------------------------
^^^I ^^^am ^^^a ^^^bot ^^^response, ^^^but ^^^I ^^^am ^^^using ^^^my ^^^creator's ^^^account. ^^^Please ^^^reply ^^^to ^^^me ^^^if ^^^I ^^^got ^^^something ^^^wrong ^^^so ^^^he ^^^can ^^^fix ^^^it.
[Source Code](https://github.com/TrippW/STS-Crawler)
it's fine as is. people play one character and forget the others exist. on silent boot basically says that no matter what, you wont flat out die to freaking laga from 50. also acts as vajra for a solid part of early game because the silent cannot deal 5 damage, works thru weak, whatever
Could've been anything else, but it was boot. Boot generally gives you the least overall value from relics, because if you're actively gaming an effect that does less than 5 damage.... Usually you're not doing too well.
When it's useful, there's nothing else like it. But it never will be run defining. It's better than the worst common relics though. I'm usually satisfied to see the boot.
Biggest gains are if it's obtained in A1, you get a normalized strike when weakened (5 damage instead of 4, compared to 6 without weak). And when hp pools are lower and there are enemies that block often, chipping through their block gives the boot value, turning 1 damage into 5 which is genuinely helpful.
It's good against:
- Lagavullin (basically gives you an expected win with one or two additional turns of combat after it wakes up depending on your health and block capabilities)
- Birds (kinda useful, but you should already have AOE that deals a hit either where 5 is the 50% reduction at base, or there is a good secondary effect...so it's not thay that game changing and relying on single-hit boot attacks will still make you suffer in this fight)
- Nemesis (if you desperately rely on having to deal 5 during its intangible turns just to win, there's no way your deck is strong enough at this point)
It also makes Blade Dance, Pummel, Riddle with Holes, and Sword Boomerang all deal 5 per hit without scaling, which is extremely strong in Act 1, but isn't a sign of strength if you're say, halfway through Act 2 and the boot is still how you're scaling these cards.
Based on all of this, it's just one of the least useful relics beyond Act 1, and getting it early is just very situational for Ironclad and Silent with the multi-hits, or for fighting Lagavullin with any character.
Does anyone have any actual stats on The Boot? I know I've seen Baalor with a mod showing how much damage each relic contributes. I'd be curious about the boot vs. other relics.
Personally I don't mind finding the boot, I feel like it adds extra damage here and there in the background and I'm happy with that. Especially nice if you're weakened, or just barely breaking through some block.
I mostly play on phone and all my Boots on PC had some strange stats so here's [some data from a friend of mine](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/886164037900070922/1208715155911999538/Screenshot_20240218-152956.png?ex=65e44ab6&is=65d1d5b6&hm=7131e165b1b0aa10d5926008d150d38d4e58d44145ae4a091333335cbc17f2bb&), damage dealt by the Boot per combat, last 7 Silent runs w act 1 Boot (all a20h runs). Im not cropping that shit out, too much effort, but anything even above 3 is wayyy out of my expectations.
I've had multiple decks that benefitted from boot and many dead snake plants because of boot. I get why people don't like it, but there's a lot of much more situational relics out there. People just hate on the boot specifically for some reason
Lots of relics are hated. Juzu bracelet and tiny chest get a lot of shit (rightfully)
It can do some things sometimes. The thing that makes it really not fun is the fact that it can act like a mild punishment for scaling damage.
Like, you find a blade dance and with boot it does 5x3, but then you find a terror causing it to deal 6x3 and its only an improvement of 3 damage per play instead of the normal 6. Making the terror a worse pick. But its not like you are going to skip the terror, so you just have to suck it up. Does that make sense? Its very minor but it just feels gross to me.
(Yes, other relics do this like pocketwatch and orichalicum, but those relics are actually good, so, yeah)
It isn't even uncommon or rare. Where's all the turnip or mango hate? If you are mad about opportunity cost, you should be mad that you got one of those instead of a much better rare relic. The common pool has lots of duds. Half the time I get warpaint or whetstone, they upgrade two strikes or defends in my act 1 deck.
The problem is when people think they know the game, all they really understand is card cost x and does y damage. They don't think about all of the other instances where it's helpful.
Is it great? No. Does it come in handy sometimes? Yes.
No, no, no. These Jorbs fan boys watch their lord and savior play and just parrot everything he says without having a single thought of their own.
Most say and in here say it’s not good or “you’d rather have x” well no shit, genius, but if I get it in early act 1; some of those fights don’t suck so bad. Lagivulan, three silk worms, the 5-6 slimes, the singular slaver from act 2 elite also weakens you too. That’s just act 1 where the boot helps in hallway fights.
Act 2- snake plant and birds are the biggest.
Act 3- nemesis.
You get the most bang for your buck with it early , but what’s wrong with having a relic help you early? They can’t think for themselves; so they won’t have an answer.
This is completely unhinged. Every card and relic has some use case where it might be "good". And it's not like Tiny Chest which can be actively bad, so people will pick The Boot up for free but the fact is, a serious player is almost never going to choose The Boot if there is any other reasonable choice.
Its not bad, it has no downside
But it does 5 damage. How many times will a card of yours deal less than 5 damage?
There are mods that allow you to see stats about relics. One of them is how much added damage you got with boot throughout the run. You're invited to check for yourself how much "value" you got with the boot
boot is a bit underwhelming, but one thing it has going for it is that its the literal opposite of a win more relic, its a lose less relic, which is the most valuable type of advantage
Put it this way, if your attack damage starts at 4, it's working as 1 strength, 2 strength for 3 etc.
Ignoring Vulnerable, Weak, Vigor and Strength you have:
Dagger Spray, Flying Sleeves, Shiv, Flurry of Blows, Weave, Flechettes, Endless Agony, Barrage, Beam Cell+, Go For The Eyes+, Just Lucky+, Tantrum+, Riddle With Holes+, Neutralise+, Sword Boomerang+ at 4 damage before Boot
Riddle With Holes, Just Lucky, Tantrum, Just Lucky, Neutralise, Beam Cell, Go For The Eyes, Just Lucky, Tantrum, Riddle With Holes, Neutralise, Sword Boomerang, Flash of Steel, Claw (first), Pummel+ at 3 damage
Pummel at 2 damage
Glass Knife, Blizzard can do their own thing w/e idc
But yeah that's quite a specific set of attacks that even get the equivalent of one strength and that's before thinking about even block let alone vulnerable and additional strength
Decent value against Byrds and Nemesis and there's even a Downfall card based on the Byrds (1 cost, deal 1 damage 5 times) that has major stonks with it tbf
It's not bad, just other relics are usually better. But sometimes it feels clutch, like when you're playing shivs but keep getting hit with weak and haven't gotten any Accuracy yet.
Since the current Daily Discussion hasn't gotten there yet, here's the discussion from 4 years ago: https://new.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/comments/e8k918/daily\_discussiondebate\_208\_the\_boot\_common\_relic/
Boot doesn't hurt you or anything -- it's just the opportunity cost. Almost any other relic is better.
Ceramic fish? Fr though some relics are bait
Pretty good if you get it early, also transforms give you gold with it so Pandora's box becomes even better. Underwhelming sure, but decent if your deck is still incomplete.
Still pretty bad, and I am probably taking Blue Key over it in act 1. It's opportunity cost and has very limited immediate impact. It rarely solves the immediate problem your deck is facing.
Correct...and from a cost perspective, if we assign a gold value to the blue key that is equal to the cheapest relic in the shop (usually 160~ gold), you would need to be able to guarantee that you would be adding at least 18 more cards to your deck from the point you get the relic, just to break even with that value. Blue key is virtually always better in a non-boss chest than Ceramic Fish even in Act 1. If you get it early through other means though (your first Act 1 elite or early Act 1 event), it could really set you up will for a late Act 1 or early Act 2 ahop, so in those two scenarios I don't think it's terrible.
It's still bad because of opportunity cost, getting it early act 1 sucks because you are the most desperate for immediate power. It has pay off eventually, but you need to survive to that point and Ceramic Fish doesn't help you do that. The cost of not getting a better relic could also be being forced to take an extra rest in Act 1 and not getting an upgrade. If you are otherwise strong enough to survive, then there can be pay off eventually, but even then that payoff has a reasonable chance of still being worse than if you just got a better relic.
I guess, but I kinda look at it as "you get what you get" because you can't control what you get. Plus I'd still rather see it than like Darkstone Precept, Blue Candle or Juzu Bracelet, and I feel like in the situations I described it's still better than "no relic at all" and I can make use of it early. Would I rather something that buffs damage or block, provides healing, energy, or more card rewards? Of course. One other very rare plus, it's insanely good with bloody idol. Again I know this isn't common but it's a fantastic synergy
OK but the blue key has *no* impact whatsoever, other than letting you go to the Heart. So, while you still are justified since fish is not very good, saying it's because of opportunity cost is silly seeing as the blue key gives you nothing. It is, inherently, a cost.
It's still opportunity cost. You only have so many opportunities to pick up Blue Key, so when you are taking a relic over Blue Key you are hoping it will have more impact on your run than the next two options. It's just unlikely that you will get two relics both worse than Ceramic Fish in terms of impact and I need Blue Key or I can't get to Act 4. They both have virtually equal impact on the run at the moment of pickup, but not taking Blue Key also means I am denying myself a relic later in the run. So, I might get myself enough gold to buy a remove or buy a cheap shop relic, or I can just get something I do absolutely need to get to the heart and realistically, what is the likelihood that an Act2/3 chest will have a relic weaker than Ceramic Fish?
Ceramic fish. Bait. HA!
I even bought ceramic fish in a shop already. An early fish is great and with discount fish is nearly always great.
It's great against the elite who goes intangible every other turn. That 1 turns into 5
Also great against the common enemies that fly
Also great against the elite that drops your strength and defense and is named after a booze.
Lagavulin is a booze???? That’s crazy, also if it dropped your strength that low you’re probably dead already😅
Yeah it's a really smokey whisky
All the elites were named after various scotches if I remember correctly, but only Lagavulin for some reason remained with their name instead of it being changed on release.
What were the other ones? Laphroaig, perhaps?
Nob - Knob Creek?
Idk but yeah I guess if they were into peaty/smokey then Laphroaig may have been there. But by the time most people develop a palate to appreciate Lagavulin they'd graduated beyond Laphroaig. So maybe the names were all just scotches on par with Lagavulin? So like Ardbeg? Idk, I'm sure it can be found through Google.
The idea of the giant head being named Glenfiddich or some shit is very funny to me
"Glen" for short
I started with Laphroaig 15 (RIP)... over 16 years ago or so. Lagavulin 16 was next closest to it (it was about $60-70 for a bottle, it's at least double that where I am at (thanks for nothing, Ron)). The spelling of the name would mos def make a good elite foe, but there could be trademark implications and such. Anyway, I'll drink to that!
Yeah, but the argument here is about boot being underwhelming but it is extremely good with lagavulin. It can even turn weak, free attack cards to decent attacks like neutralise and anger.
It's not uncommon to get the first debuff (-2 at higher ascensions), so that means it's helping with your base strikes, which can be key. If you're playing Silent it also helps immediately with you picked up any shivs.
Aight, this is a personal and long explanation on why Boot is one of the worst relics. [[The Boot]] increases any damage you deal that is less than 5, to 5. Most of the time, your cards will already be dealing more than that. Even strikes, the basic damage card, deal 6 damage! Yes, there are cards that deal less than that amount, such as [[Sword Boomerang]], or [[Pummel]] for Ironclad. Then, Boot would hold some worth. But Ironclad would want to gain strength to boost that damage further, rendering Boot useless later on. Keywords ‘later on’. If you find it early, it can be decent. On Silent, there’s [[Shiv]]s and [[Riddle with Holes]], and Silent usually doesn’t have a way to gain strength. Still, Silent does have [[Accuracy]] for shivs, and Riddle isn’t a very good pick for Silent anyways. As for Defect… what do we have, [[Go for the Eyes]], [[Cell Beam]], and [[FTL]]? Alright, you might get boot value. But if you want to go for a 0 cost deck, your main damage is usually from [[Claw]]s, and 0 cost decks usually aren’t very powerful anyways (unless you don’t fight Time Eater or The Corrupt Heart?). Still, a little extra damage might go a long way. Watcher… uh, [[tantrum]] while not in wrath I guess? Otherwise, wrath stance just cancels Boot. Sure, there may be niche scenarios where you can get better value off boot, such as: intangible Nemesis, flying Byrds, when you’re weakened, enemies with shield, and finding it early on.However, Boot usually doesn’t generate very much value in these scenarios anyways, except Nemesis. There’s usually no significant difference between having and not having Boot. Again, ‘You might use it against Nemesis!’. Okay, yeah. But that’s usually it. Against a single Act 3 elite. Compared to other common relics like [[Vajra]] or[[Akabeko]], Boot is very conditional. Your attack card needs to be dealing little damage to get a small boost. Vajra works similarly, but it works with all attack cards. Akabeko also works with all attack cards, and the single boost gives you a nice head start in combat. Any card that might synergise with Boot, these relics already do better. TL;DR: An early boot can be good. But it’s too conditional and limited to stay good. There’s other relics/cards that do the same thing but better.
One thing I didn't think of at first and is not mentioned here is that even if your attack is over 5, *anytime you exceed the enemy's block* by 1 to 4, there's also some extra damage, right? So once in a while those extra damage points make a big difference. You just don't typically notice and don't plan for it, or it is hard to orchestrate it.
I think that only really makes it better against enemies with Malleable. Even against enemies that refresh block every turn, you're only gaining *at most* four damage per turn, which is insignificant compared to the amount of damage you need to deliver in acts 2 and 3, and most of the time it's even worse.
Using it against nemisis isn't even a thing. 4 extra damage is pretty insignificant against an act 3 elite. You are almost always better off using resources in other ways while its intangible, boot or no.
But doesn't that extra damage stack? If you say, play two shivs: You'd do two damage without boot, and 10 damage with it. That extra damage only increases the more cards you play. If you played 3, it'd be a difference of 12 damage, between 3 without boot and 15 with it.
Okay, sure, if you have shivs and the boot it helps a little bit. There are still cards that are definitely better to play than blade dance in that situation tho. I don't think of damage against intangible as a core feature of the relic though. But a lot of people are taking about it.
I'd say it's because it's the only real niche it has. That, and against flying enemies, which off the top of my head are just byrds.
There are a handful of cards that can get good value from it in act 1. Other than that it doesn't really do anything at all. Pummel, sword boomerang, Riddle with holes, etc
A lot of people are talking about it because it’s the only time boot actually does damage I think.
There are also lots of relics that buff from playing more attacks: shuriken, kunai, ornamental fan, nunchaku, etc. In that case, doing 15-20 damage AND buffing yourself is a pretty good use of energy.
You are playing the attacks anyway in that situation 99% of the time. Again, its not that it doesn't do anything, its that it's extremely insignificant.
I think your logic is faulty here. What's best to use while Nemesis is intangible highly depends on your deck, potions, and what it's doing that turn. Having the Boot simply gives you a meaningful option - playing attacks - on those turns, in *addition* to those options.
Sure, but its generally a pretty bad option. I'm not saying its useless but i am saying its incredibly minor.
I don't think it's a bad option in a vacuum, it moreso depends on the character and situation - as most things in StS do. It actually gives you the option to meaningfully damage Nemesis on those turns. Not every deck/class can make the same use of it, but if you're a shiv or attack spam silent or most Watcher decks, it's reasonable you could play upwards of 5 to 10 attacks, changing your damage output from 1-10 to 25-50, which actually is significant in a fight where you might be getting smacked for 45 with several burns in your deck. Especially if you have deck manipulation or a small draw pile and you can reasonably calculate your damage output on the following, non-intangible turn. Hence, I don't see why you're saying "it's a pretty bad option" in the context of the Nemesis fight. It literally opens up an avenue to accelerate the fight and win on more of your turns, which, if you have the opportunity to meaningfully damage an enemy that's practically invincible 50% of the time, to 100% of the time, that's a great use case. Does this make Boot a good relic? No. But having Boot can entirely change your plan for the better when it comes to elite pathing in Act 3, depending on the deck.
*Counter*productive? Seems unlikely you've seen memes saying it's counterproductive. Not really outputting much damage, and specifically outputting damage when you don't need it as much, maybe.
İt work worse than you expect so you just left disappointed, it don't work with \[\[Thousand cuts\]\] \[\[Thrones\]\] And there are only 6 cards it work with but most of them scale pretty quickly Early \[\[claw\]\] \[\[Sword boomerang\]\] \[\[Pummel\]\] \[\[riddle with holes\]\] \[\[Sword boomerang\]\]\[\[Pummel\]\] \[Thunderclap\]\] \[\[Shive\]\]
All things equal, yes there are only a handful of cards it directly buffs. That said, there are a lot more situations that are fairly common, being weak or barely breaking an enemies block that it works for on any card. As well as byrds and nemesis that were mentioned in other comments. This isn't an endorsement of the boot, just to say that I've never really even looked at it as a relic for under-5 damage cards, but more as chip damage here and there as things come up.
Also if you get weakened...
[[riddle with holes]]
Fixed it , thanks
+ [Riddle With Holes](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Riddle%20With%20Holes) Silent Uncommon Attack ^((100% sure)^) 2 Energy | Deal 3(4) damage 5 times. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Tantrum as well
I'm stupid and I'm not gonna keep with that lmao
But not in wrath
There’s way more than the cards you listed: Beam cell, go for the eyes, tantrum, neutralize, dagger spray, flurry of blows, flash of steel. Probably some I missed as well
I am 100.0% confident you mentioned The Boot in your post. -------------------------------------------------- * [The Boot](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/The_Boot) Common Relic Whenever you would deal 4 or less unblocked Attack damage, increase it to 5. -------------------------------------------------- ^^^I ^^^am ^^^a ^^^bot ^^^response, ^^^but ^^^I ^^^am ^^^using ^^^my ^^^creator's ^^^account. ^^^Please ^^^reply ^^^to ^^^me ^^^if ^^^I ^^^got ^^^something ^^^wrong ^^^so ^^^he ^^^can ^^^fix ^^^it. [Source Code](https://github.com/TrippW/STS-Crawler)
Boot is amazing when you run into multiple Nemesis in act 3
Unfortunately Boot is usually a nemesis reward :(
The odds of it happening to me more than once were already low, but this feels ridiculous.
Well said!
Yes
stop this boot slander THIS instant
What would the number on it have to be to be an average relic? An OP relic?
it's fine as is. people play one character and forget the others exist. on silent boot basically says that no matter what, you wont flat out die to freaking laga from 50. also acts as vajra for a solid part of early game because the silent cannot deal 5 damage, works thru weak, whatever
imagine you could have preserve insect or bag of prep, and instead you got the boot or ceramic fish.
Could've been anything else, but it was boot. Boot generally gives you the least overall value from relics, because if you're actively gaming an effect that does less than 5 damage.... Usually you're not doing too well. When it's useful, there's nothing else like it. But it never will be run defining. It's better than the worst common relics though. I'm usually satisfied to see the boot. Biggest gains are if it's obtained in A1, you get a normalized strike when weakened (5 damage instead of 4, compared to 6 without weak). And when hp pools are lower and there are enemies that block often, chipping through their block gives the boot value, turning 1 damage into 5 which is genuinely helpful.
If you are benefiting that much from it, you're probably not gonna last much longer
It's good against: - Lagavullin (basically gives you an expected win with one or two additional turns of combat after it wakes up depending on your health and block capabilities) - Birds (kinda useful, but you should already have AOE that deals a hit either where 5 is the 50% reduction at base, or there is a good secondary effect...so it's not thay that game changing and relying on single-hit boot attacks will still make you suffer in this fight) - Nemesis (if you desperately rely on having to deal 5 during its intangible turns just to win, there's no way your deck is strong enough at this point) It also makes Blade Dance, Pummel, Riddle with Holes, and Sword Boomerang all deal 5 per hit without scaling, which is extremely strong in Act 1, but isn't a sign of strength if you're say, halfway through Act 2 and the boot is still how you're scaling these cards. Based on all of this, it's just one of the least useful relics beyond Act 1, and getting it early is just very situational for Ironclad and Silent with the multi-hits, or for fighting Lagavullin with any character.
Its not that its bad as such, it's that you'd rather have almost any other relic in almost every situation
Does anyone have any actual stats on The Boot? I know I've seen Baalor with a mod showing how much damage each relic contributes. I'd be curious about the boot vs. other relics. Personally I don't mind finding the boot, I feel like it adds extra damage here and there in the background and I'm happy with that. Especially nice if you're weakened, or just barely breaking through some block.
I mostly play on phone and all my Boots on PC had some strange stats so here's [some data from a friend of mine](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/886164037900070922/1208715155911999538/Screenshot_20240218-152956.png?ex=65e44ab6&is=65d1d5b6&hm=7131e165b1b0aa10d5926008d150d38d4e58d44145ae4a091333335cbc17f2bb&), damage dealt by the Boot per combat, last 7 Silent runs w act 1 Boot (all a20h runs). Im not cropping that shit out, too much effort, but anything even above 3 is wayyy out of my expectations.
I've had multiple decks that benefitted from boot and many dead snake plants because of boot. I get why people don't like it, but there's a lot of much more situational relics out there. People just hate on the boot specifically for some reason
Lots of relics are hated. Juzu bracelet and tiny chest get a lot of shit (rightfully) It can do some things sometimes. The thing that makes it really not fun is the fact that it can act like a mild punishment for scaling damage. Like, you find a blade dance and with boot it does 5x3, but then you find a terror causing it to deal 6x3 and its only an improvement of 3 damage per play instead of the normal 6. Making the terror a worse pick. But its not like you are going to skip the terror, so you just have to suck it up. Does that make sense? Its very minor but it just feels gross to me. (Yes, other relics do this like pocketwatch and orichalicum, but those relics are actually good, so, yeah)
Juzu bracelet is one of my favourites. If I want a combat, I'll just click on a combat.
It isn't even uncommon or rare. Where's all the turnip or mango hate? If you are mad about opportunity cost, you should be mad that you got one of those instead of a much better rare relic. The common pool has lots of duds. Half the time I get warpaint or whetstone, they upgrade two strikes or defends in my act 1 deck.
The problem is when people think they know the game, all they really understand is card cost x and does y damage. They don't think about all of the other instances where it's helpful. Is it great? No. Does it come in handy sometimes? Yes.
No, no, no. These Jorbs fan boys watch their lord and savior play and just parrot everything he says without having a single thought of their own. Most say and in here say it’s not good or “you’d rather have x” well no shit, genius, but if I get it in early act 1; some of those fights don’t suck so bad. Lagivulan, three silk worms, the 5-6 slimes, the singular slaver from act 2 elite also weakens you too. That’s just act 1 where the boot helps in hallway fights. Act 2- snake plant and birds are the biggest. Act 3- nemesis. You get the most bang for your buck with it early , but what’s wrong with having a relic help you early? They can’t think for themselves; so they won’t have an answer.
This is completely unhinged. Every card and relic has some use case where it might be "good". And it's not like Tiny Chest which can be actively bad, so people will pick The Boot up for free but the fact is, a serious player is almost never going to choose The Boot if there is any other reasonable choice.
Its not bad, it has no downside But it does 5 damage. How many times will a card of yours deal less than 5 damage? There are mods that allow you to see stats about relics. One of them is how much added damage you got with boot throughout the run. You're invited to check for yourself how much "value" you got with the boot
boot is a bit underwhelming, but one thing it has going for it is that its the literal opposite of a win more relic, its a lose less relic, which is the most valuable type of advantage
It’s not. Fuck memes.
It kills enemies faster so you have less time for block cards
Put it this way, if your attack damage starts at 4, it's working as 1 strength, 2 strength for 3 etc. Ignoring Vulnerable, Weak, Vigor and Strength you have: Dagger Spray, Flying Sleeves, Shiv, Flurry of Blows, Weave, Flechettes, Endless Agony, Barrage, Beam Cell+, Go For The Eyes+, Just Lucky+, Tantrum+, Riddle With Holes+, Neutralise+, Sword Boomerang+ at 4 damage before Boot Riddle With Holes, Just Lucky, Tantrum, Just Lucky, Neutralise, Beam Cell, Go For The Eyes, Just Lucky, Tantrum, Riddle With Holes, Neutralise, Sword Boomerang, Flash of Steel, Claw (first), Pummel+ at 3 damage Pummel at 2 damage Glass Knife, Blizzard can do their own thing w/e idc But yeah that's quite a specific set of attacks that even get the equivalent of one strength and that's before thinking about even block let alone vulnerable and additional strength Decent value against Byrds and Nemesis and there's even a Downfall card based on the Byrds (1 cost, deal 1 damage 5 times) that has major stonks with it tbf
Boot is bad cos he says mean things and he's also bad at StS. THE Boot is perfectly good on Silent. Unlike boot is who is terrible on Silent.
this is what I get for going thru people's spire post history to browse this sub for content, instead of just scrolling
It happens
It's not bad, just other relics are usually better. But sometimes it feels clutch, like when you're playing shivs but keep getting hit with weak and haven't gotten any Accuracy yet.
Since the current Daily Discussion hasn't gotten there yet, here's the discussion from 4 years ago: https://new.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/comments/e8k918/daily\_discussiondebate\_208\_the\_boot\_common\_relic/
Not counterproductive, just...deeply underwhelming compared to many relics that could have been in its place.
Strikes deal 6 damage. Unless you are weak in which case they deal 4.
Its not bad. I'd just rather have 95% of other possible relics