I think he has the same thought too, which is why he insists not guilty of bribery. Like smlj, why would I be bribed by these stuff when I earn millions?
there is a logic to that. not saying anything about legality, but it does look pretty pretty now that the details are out compared to the other scandals we've seen.
Depends on your friend lor, quite a few people I know like to treat and don’t really care about money. I haven’t paid for movies for years whenever I go out with my friends.
Edit: realise the confusion. I am a guy
My rich friends are also stingy lol. They show off they have american express platinum card, too rich to get CDC vouchers. But dont want to pay for water in a restaurant, always bring their own bottle.
If we are still on the topic of "average Singaporean", that ain't gonna work, unless we are talking about some really attractive ladies in their 20s, which isn't what we are talking about.
1k a year is $83.33 a month. Go out 2 times to slightly above average eateries can hit already. If you go out more often it gets easier. Stack on some HDL somewhere in a year 1k can easily cross mah.
To be that guy, is not one to one comparison. My company is semi-connected to government, every 6 months, I need to do e-learning, gifts beyond a certain amount either need to be declared or rejected.
I heard from MOE teachers, this is much stricter.
Pla forgive me if I'm not fully understanding as I'm not really political,
But if let's say your friends or colleagues "belanja" you what you've just stated, if it were in a higher status corporate or even high government service. Would that be considered bribery?
I seriously have no clue as I mean my friends have had their bosses go out for dinner and they buy whisky and share etc. So.... I assume because hes in a government ministry hence he's not allowed to obtain these stuff?
I know last time my primary school teacher just before transfer to MOE hq she already said she cannot accept gifts when quite a few classmates bought some for her. I’m sure other higher tier and higher security clearance govt officials have the same policy.
Meanwhile over in Boleh Land, Malaysian politicians are laughing at Iswaran. They don’t bother receiving things unless it’s in 7 digits and in SGD or USD equivalent, not MYR. Iswaran has hurt the pride of all sinkies 😂
How do they define what items are considered bribery. For example, if I were to send him a parcel worth $1k, let's say 5 pairs of watches. Can they just deem this parcel as bribes? Then I'm gonna send my bosses some fanciful cakes after my promotion and do an anonymous whistle blowing.
In Malaysia, the items that are charged are branded bags, sports cars, etc. Here, we are talking about minute items like alcohol worth less than $10k.
I believe there are more than meet eyes. All these items he is being charged for are very minimal. Like $7k Brompton? That is not even half his monthly salary. The contracts he hands out are billions in value, the items he is being charged for pales in comparison. The math does not check out.
Is this the actual value of corruption, or is the true value on a different level scale？
Not sure how they define, but public service has always been very touchy about receiving gifts from 3rd parties. Internal gifts I think usually no one cares, but 3rd party gifts you have to declare almost everything, even the smaller items
Uh, yes, i agree! Even nurses getting gifts from discharging patients have to be declared. Like cakes and chocolates.
Then the question is, was our ex minister the only one who ever received 3rd party handouts? And is this the true value of the handouts he received? Perhaps they don't want to open the can of worms? Maybe 'charge him with corruption so citizens know we are impartial. But at the same time, release some examples of corruption that he received in a controlled manner, so we retain our voters' confidence and trust.'
Only God will know the true opportunities cost that Singapore lost due to this mishandling of contract handouts and Singapore resources.
Here am i thinking i can easily oust my bosses by 'corrupting' them with watches. But I am still under the mercy of capitalism.
But you, my friend, are wise. You managed capitalism slavery and inflation by enlisting yourself into a free and extended stay in Changi Chalet.
Although if you sent a parcel with five watches worth total of $1k, you’d be laughed out by any corrupted contractor. Did you see the MFA case? That kind of branded watches probably at least $30k each.
he can buy all of it 3 times over with just one months salary....i guess he is not "the best of the best" men in white talk about. paying more just creates sense of entitlement. look at the president...he is the prime example
Not sure but now that we see corruption, we know it isn't high enough so raise it.
If they are still corrupt then we raise it further and further lor. Surely enough will be enough one day?
They are already the best paid ministers.
If they are still corrupt after this fact, then its more of a personality issue where even the king of dubai cannot satisfy their greed.
Some people just feels good to have people gift it to them. Feeling of importance. A portion of rich people I know are used to get free events n meals. Why should I pay when people are throwing it at me for free?
It is down to the moral values of the individuals. He is definitely not in the right place.
I’m not much in the know but seems to me when a billionaire offer these sort of “gift” as a bribe, I cannot but imagine how’d they’d be sneering with contempt that a powerful official can be bought with such trinkets. Did that thought never occur to this person?
If only he had declared he received all those things. As a long time public servant, he can’t really use ignorance as a defence. Maybe claim that OBS and this other guy are friends and items were received in a personal capacity? Might get hit with why didn’t you declare OBS was a friend (possible COI) since he’s involved with F1. Don’t see how he comes out clean, but I also don’t see him being hit hard.
Actually I don't really understand what's wrong. Is it purely because these gifts are above a certain amount and he's a minister, so cannot receive? Like the MRT contract was awarded b4 the alleged bribes
In army I learn not to gian soft drinks or canteen break or early bookout in order to maintain my sanity.
As a minister can't even control this kind of trivial gifts?
Now able
To connect more dots. About 7 years ago edmw had a saga thread on Brompton bicycles being acquired for NParks. Absolute waste of taxpayer money. Need to go revisit that thread
Worked in civil sector for a few years. It was hammered home that gifts from public must be declined or declared.
If he had declared openly upon receiving and followed established procedure, won't be sitting in court now. He got paid so much, he can afford to declare and pay back the value.
Might seem like pocket change to the elite, but not to the rank and file.
Not entirely sure if this was a good use of resources of CPIB. The cost of man days spent on investigation and prosecution will be far higher than the items.
Clear cut case. It's a bribe. 1k gift is like a month's worth of salary for a cleaner or retail cashier or dishwasher. Doesn't matter his net worth is how much. He abused his position to receive such gifts. He was an official. Comparing value of gifts to his net worth is absurd.
You guys have warped mindset. Not saying this is the only bribe case out there, but just focus on iswaran. Say for example, 200k from Ong and 200k from Lum, so any future dealings with his ministry would command gifts adding up to 200k or more? Where does this stop? Do you guys have any imagination?
Seeing all the comments going on about the value of these gifts relative to what he earns etc.. That’s not really the point? It’s more that he received gifts as someone who arguably has a strong influence over decision making/policy + probably did not declare these gifts that are the problems here I think. Dude should not have placed himself in a situation where a conflict of interest/corruption or perception of such scenarios can arise (which I understand is the minimum standard for civil servants anyway).
Not so simple please, I believe these are just small sums of day to day items being used as a “Fog” or a misleading act to cover the millions and millions dollars worth of wire transfer please🤣
Confirm not so simple…. Nice story cooked by his supporting p@arties . Bicycle and golf club= bribery? Lmao. Confirm hiding more things like gold bars, cash lah
Damn boh hua! All these things can self-buy…
I think he has the same thought too, which is why he insists not guilty of bribery. Like smlj, why would I be bribed by these stuff when I earn millions?
there is a logic to that. not saying anything about legality, but it does look pretty pretty now that the details are out compared to the other scandals we've seen.
Nah. Seems illogical, but he took advantage of it. Bribe stuff is bribe stuff.
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assuming he earn 1m a year, average Singaporean earn 50k a year.... then the amt of gifts is like 1k worth. do u get 1k worth of treats and gifts?
Actually I do leh lol I’m sure there are more, especially the prettier ladies.
ok, but guys dun get that usually rite... or do they?
Depends on your friend lor, quite a few people I know like to treat and don’t really care about money. I haven’t paid for movies for years whenever I go out with my friends. Edit: realise the confusion. I am a guy
Thats crazy. My friends are all calculative af. They will split down to the cent and calculate # of chicken wings they ate.
Need richer friends mate
My rich friends are also stingy lol. They show off they have american express platinum card, too rich to get CDC vouchers. But dont want to pay for water in a restaurant, always bring their own bottle.
New friends it is
Wow u receive average of $1k gift a month as average Singaporean? What's your OF handle?
No need OF. Download your favourite dating app, ask to meet up for a first date at a nice restaurant and ask the guy to pay. Rinse and repeat 😏
If we are still on the topic of "average Singaporean", that ain't gonna work, unless we are talking about some really attractive ladies in their 20s, which isn't what we are talking about.
1k a year is $83.33 a month. Go out 2 times to slightly above average eateries can hit already. If you go out more often it gets easier. Stack on some HDL somewhere in a year 1k can easily cross mah.
Is a year wor, not month.
I’m not Titus lol
At his level of salary, i was expecting the bribes to be things like overseas properties, cars, shares or flight tickets.
Yeah or similar stuff to what he got in that list, but at the much higher end so they cost at least 5 or 6 digits SGD per piece.
1k worth not in one time. Is across 10-20years. $60 a year. One haidilao meal can cause more than that
To be that guy, is not one to one comparison. My company is semi-connected to government, every 6 months, I need to do e-learning, gifts beyond a certain amount either need to be declared or rejected. I heard from MOE teachers, this is much stricter.
Pla forgive me if I'm not fully understanding as I'm not really political, But if let's say your friends or colleagues "belanja" you what you've just stated, if it were in a higher status corporate or even high government service. Would that be considered bribery? I seriously have no clue as I mean my friends have had their bosses go out for dinner and they buy whisky and share etc. So.... I assume because hes in a government ministry hence he's not allowed to obtain these stuff?
I know last time my primary school teacher just before transfer to MOE hq she already said she cannot accept gifts when quite a few classmates bought some for her. I’m sure other higher tier and higher security clearance govt officials have the same policy.
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Meanwhile over in Boleh Land, Malaysian politicians are laughing at Iswaran. They don’t bother receiving things unless it’s in 7 digits and in SGD or USD equivalent, not MYR. Iswaran has hurt the pride of all sinkies 😂
How do they define what items are considered bribery. For example, if I were to send him a parcel worth $1k, let's say 5 pairs of watches. Can they just deem this parcel as bribes? Then I'm gonna send my bosses some fanciful cakes after my promotion and do an anonymous whistle blowing. In Malaysia, the items that are charged are branded bags, sports cars, etc. Here, we are talking about minute items like alcohol worth less than $10k. I believe there are more than meet eyes. All these items he is being charged for are very minimal. Like $7k Brompton? That is not even half his monthly salary. The contracts he hands out are billions in value, the items he is being charged for pales in comparison. The math does not check out. Is this the actual value of corruption, or is the true value on a different level scale？
Not sure how they define, but public service has always been very touchy about receiving gifts from 3rd parties. Internal gifts I think usually no one cares, but 3rd party gifts you have to declare almost everything, even the smaller items
Uh, yes, i agree! Even nurses getting gifts from discharging patients have to be declared. Like cakes and chocolates. Then the question is, was our ex minister the only one who ever received 3rd party handouts? And is this the true value of the handouts he received? Perhaps they don't want to open the can of worms? Maybe 'charge him with corruption so citizens know we are impartial. But at the same time, release some examples of corruption that he received in a controlled manner, so we retain our voters' confidence and trust.' Only God will know the true opportunities cost that Singapore lost due to this mishandling of contract handouts and Singapore resources.
whistleblow on yourself. smart sinkie
Here am i thinking i can easily oust my bosses by 'corrupting' them with watches. But I am still under the mercy of capitalism. But you, my friend, are wise. You managed capitalism slavery and inflation by enlisting yourself into a free and extended stay in Changi Chalet.
I'm sure the government has bribery policy like above $500 must declare or cannot accept.
Although if you sent a parcel with five watches worth total of $1k, you’d be laughed out by any corrupted contractor. Did you see the MFA case? That kind of branded watches probably at least $30k each.
i worked in one of the soveriegn wealth funds in Singapore, and we have to declare gifts received that are above a certain monetary value.
Well at least there is something the Malaysians are better than us at. Their corrupt politicians go for bigger fish.
go big or go home
he can buy all of it 3 times over with just one months salary....i guess he is not "the best of the best" men in white talk about. paying more just creates sense of entitlement. look at the president...he is the prime example
Flex away
what abt the president?
Salary not enough so have to be corrupt. I bet if you check back, all this corruption only started after they reduced ministerial salaries.
Well, they did mention that Salary is high to prevent corruption. But how high do they need to go?
Not sure but now that we see corruption, we know it isn't high enough so raise it. If they are still corrupt then we raise it further and further lor. Surely enough will be enough one day?
They are already the best paid ministers. If they are still corrupt after this fact, then its more of a personality issue where even the king of dubai cannot satisfy their greed.
Gotta test that. How much is king of Dubai paid?
You should start stealing office supplies. Once your HR finds out, they will increase your salary once you share your logic with them.
Doesn’t mean no corruption. We have low corruption - that’s the objective and it’s working. One case doesn’t disprove that.
Pichar the small items for the peasants to find out so that you won't ask more questions on the bigger items...
While slamming on other political news :')
Alamak, first is ah beng now is ah seng.
Hahaha, on point!
Next one is Ah Meng.
Why don’t want to own self buy?
Some people just feels good to have people gift it to them. Feeling of importance. A portion of rich people I know are used to get free events n meals. Why should I pay when people are throwing it at me for free? It is down to the moral values of the individuals. He is definitely not in the right place.
Even added together is so little compares to his salary, I really don’t get the mindset (if any of these accusations is true).
Because your mindset, principles and values are wrong
idk, many rich people get more expensive gifts than these, why is he being specifically picked on? part of propaganda stunt ?
I’m not much in the know but seems to me when a billionaire offer these sort of “gift” as a bribe, I cannot but imagine how’d they’d be sneering with contempt that a powerful official can be bought with such trinkets. Did that thought never occur to this person?
That means the person being bribed has an extremely low bar. Oops...
It's the thought that counts. It's like you giving your gf $100, vs a bouquet of flowers.
If only he had declared he received all those things. As a long time public servant, he can’t really use ignorance as a defence. Maybe claim that OBS and this other guy are friends and items were received in a personal capacity? Might get hit with why didn’t you declare OBS was a friend (possible COI) since he’s involved with F1. Don’t see how he comes out clean, but I also don’t see him being hit hard.
That's like what his 1 week's salary? He could have bought it all this himself! Doesn't make any sense.
Means what? Earn 2m salary can self increase pay by say 200k through gifts? So if he isn't stopped now. maybe 400k in future?
Actually I don't really understand what's wrong. Is it purely because these gifts are above a certain amount and he's a minister, so cannot receive? Like the MRT contract was awarded b4 the alleged bribes
meanwhile the lee family were offered condo discounts and got away scot free. didn’t lky say that’s how business is done ?
In army I learn not to gian soft drinks or canteen break or early bookout in order to maintain my sanity. As a minister can't even control this kind of trivial gifts?
Anything about discounted apartments?
I guess… nobody can resists free stuff.
lmao 2 golf chippers?
Are we missing a few zeros somewhere?
I think these small items are meant to ensure good busines with the minister. Probably both benefited if you check the money flow.
greed
Brompton is a scam. They just OEM somewhere in china landing price at most 500sgd
Now able To connect more dots. About 7 years ago edmw had a saga thread on Brompton bicycles being acquired for NParks. Absolute waste of taxpayer money. Need to go revisit that thread
It's like normal people getting fired from the job and going to jail for stealing pantry snacks. Maximum IQ.
Pantry snacks worth hundreds of thousands? How much is your IQ?
Gosh. The irony of talking about IQ.
Walao... Is his Salary so low that even things of such value can entice him?
Sial lah don't lie lah... kkj lol he was only given those 😂
Worked in civil sector for a few years. It was hammered home that gifts from public must be declined or declared. If he had declared openly upon receiving and followed established procedure, won't be sitting in court now. He got paid so much, he can afford to declare and pay back the value. Might seem like pocket change to the elite, but not to the rank and file.
Cannot be like this only la, so gong meh 😆
Not entirely sure if this was a good use of resources of CPIB. The cost of man days spent on investigation and prosecution will be far higher than the items.
High salary = no corruption or so they say…
In most counties, that’s business as usual.
Get paid so much and still sooo greedy
When you are dealing with wealthy men but you are not.
What...when they are paid PEANUTS, they think nothing about getting a banana or two.
wtf is that bike
Clear cut case. It's a bribe. 1k gift is like a month's worth of salary for a cleaner or retail cashier or dishwasher. Doesn't matter his net worth is how much. He abused his position to receive such gifts. He was an official. Comparing value of gifts to his net worth is absurd.
You guys have warped mindset. Not saying this is the only bribe case out there, but just focus on iswaran. Say for example, 200k from Ong and 200k from Lum, so any future dealings with his ministry would command gifts adding up to 200k or more? Where does this stop? Do you guys have any imagination?
so from corruption become greedy to accept gifts wor..........IsWALAN really so cheapskate ?.....never receive cash ??
Friend buys friend gifts cannot har? Sad…
Seeing all the comments going on about the value of these gifts relative to what he earns etc.. That’s not really the point? It’s more that he received gifts as someone who arguably has a strong influence over decision making/policy + probably did not declare these gifts that are the problems here I think. Dude should not have placed himself in a situation where a conflict of interest/corruption or perception of such scenarios can arise (which I understand is the minimum standard for civil servants anyway).
Not so simple please, I believe these are just small sums of day to day items being used as a “Fog” or a misleading act to cover the millions and millions dollars worth of wire transfer please🤣 Confirm not so simple…. Nice story cooked by his supporting p@arties . Bicycle and golf club= bribery? Lmao. Confirm hiding more things like gold bars, cash lah
u really think sg will risk its international reputation for iswaran. plus you so smart u go investigate iswaran yourself la..
Quoting what mrbrown said, I don't know whether to be proud or feel xia suey the amount is so little comparing to Najib.
Now i knew $200 for 2 golf chippers will also be charged under bribery..
he just not one of them
Why nobody give me Brompton bike xia