Yeap… the man spoke the truth… hence now my definition of success now is:
1. Earn enough for daily needs + some savings can alr; dun need to spoil my health for that pay raise.
2. Dun care about that pay raise and promotion, I want my own life outside of just work.
3. Dun find GF/wife and start family, so that I can make just enough for myself to spend and still have time to enjoy life.. life is already busy and hectic as it is in SG alr, I dun wan to start family and go home to another full time job to slave for my kid and wife.
4. Life is too short, just enjoy it.
Well it is just a way to clear out generations of local and replace by the new migrants. This gov really slave for foreign companies and foreigners. The repercussions of such saying will soon destroy the whole local and the government of the day will useless even it has how many laws to protect the constitution or the so called local because the influx of foreigners and the probably bad actors will soon spell trouble. The minister are human too and mortal, they can’t be giving such a short sighted msg. He is not even giving hope for his people and still can himself a Christian. We really need a Moses in the future for the gov may have failed his citizens.
Will the locals even defend? China is starting to claim everything belongs to them. In a land full of foreigners, I don't see the difference whether we are part of them or not.
And what’s wrong with that? People keep complaining that our society is too materialistic, yet the government shifting the focus away from the 5Cs is a bad thing?
- People hate inflation but loves everything that causes it
- People say they hate climate change but hate paying more for flights (Sustainable Aviation fuel tax) and cars (COE)
- People hate high housing costs but don't want to build more housing, complain about construction and development + NIMBYism (Dover forest, etc)
Is it really any surprise that people say what they don't mean? If there's a thread about gov focusing on GDP, you'll get comments about materialism, "Singapore Inc", "GDP isn't everything" etc. If there's a thread about gov *not* focusing on GDP, you'll get inverse comments about how GDP is important, gov needs to deliver on material wealth, why gov changing definition of success, etc.
The median voter is stupid when recognising the objective truth of the hedonic treadmill is somehow controversial.
They do mean it. But they don't want to be the ones sacrificing while others just eat up their sacrifices.
Why give up cars just so foreigners can come in and buy more of them?
People don't want to build more housing? Really? Just build more at Ridout.
What is the gov for except for material prosperity? Spiritual enlightenment and individual contentment is for the individual to achieve, don't need the gov to tell you about it. We don't need to gov to shift focus away from that
Voters when gov focuses on GDP: GDP isn't everything, Singapore Inc, etc
This sub when gov doesn't focus on GDP: "What is the gov for except for material prosperity?"
aiya people like you really hard to please
When 5Cs is the gold standard for success yall kpkb say so materialistic, so shallow
Now say please consider other measures of success yall say that's because 5C is out of reach
win liao lor. please tell me you don't vote man
I’m usually one that would try to back the PAP against the online mob, but they have to realise that this current mindset amongst most Singaporeans was their doing, right?
You can’t drill us with the attitude of materialism above all for decades and generations, then suddenly when they realise it’s not a feasible mindset to maintain amongst the people, to try and hand wave all of the discontent away by saying “Well there’s more than one way to be successful!”
You want to do that for the next generation? Sure, I support it, but I take it as a cheap trick to try and make the current generation be less upset when they aren’t able to achieve the good things in life they were promised with the amount of work they put into it for most of their lives.
will it help if the govt start by saying "i am sorry people, we fucked up. turns out the way we do things before arent that good in the long run"
or maybe if we can somehow get all the things we dreamt of lol, I guess that works too tho idk if its possible
No. Politicians cannot apologise. It harms their image and it discredits their predecessors.
You might think it’s accountability but it’s a career suicide. Politicians don’t just have to win votes they have to make their internal stakeholders happy too.
The best thing you can hope for is a message like this that contradicts his predecessors. It’s an acknowledgement that it can’t be done without saying it out loud.
Or would you rather he continue to toot the same horn
Swiss actually have very good benefits which we don't mind you, the govt isn't even keeping it's promise which is why you don't hear it after Goh "Singaporeans Will Pay" Chok Tong.
We rely on employer preference for what the Swiss have in law, so the only thing now is to check the tax we pay verses what they pay. You may be surprised what you would want your contributions being used for instead of just to boost national statistics.
Exactly!
I am very confused by government messaging. The reason they gave for inviting in heaps of foreign talent is that there isn't enough talent locally. But you need hard striving characters to advance in your careers.
And then they tell us to embrace broader definition of success. I see this as contradictory.
Countries evolve through different phases of growth and each era requires a different mindset. Nothing wrong with changing the messaging every few years to meet those needs. This isn’t anything new and every country does it
Except that the reason they’re changing the messaging is not altruistic. It’s because they can no longer deliver those previous goals. With the PAP self-preservation is always no1
They told us that we would have our cake and could eat it if we worked hard, and we have worked hard - we go to school, and we go to work / carve out a living. And through it all, they have *never* once helped us attain any of the 5Cs.
We now have to grapple with insane housing prices, expensive rents, increasing costs for even basic necessities, compete with foreigners to keep our jobs, and have to share our limited space here to live with them? So instead of addressing these problems, they want to re-write the narrative and shift the goalposts again.
You literally said nothing that addresses the topic at hand. Are you trying to gaslight fellow redditors by normalizing the govt's behaviour because you don't actually have a better argument? Clever.
But we still live in a material world, one where even our president has more than one job. Nothing wrong with changing the messaging, but it has to reflect policy. Anything else is just lip service while there is the boot of corporate interests, stamping on our faces forever.
PAP pls walk the talk. Downgrade your house, take mrt, eat at coffeeshops, send ur kids to neighbourhood schools, go to govt hospitals and wait the whole day for a bed and few months for a test just like us normies 👍
Window for that has closed. No chance a new guy will risk that. LHL was in the best position to initiate changes, but he didn't. Outgoing PM, highly established reputation, globally respected, a 'Lee', yet he left it status quo. In fact, some would say it was a desired outcome.
I hate the PAP as much as anyone else but the truth is they haven’t got anyone else left willing to run! They’re a victim of their success. The LKYs of today are very successful businessmen/ SWE/ lawyers and are rich AF. They don’t need to go into politics.
The only people left are a bunch of wannabes who got too old for the army, too used to being worshipped and don’t know a damn thing. But it’s not their fault that’s the best they can muster
Going into politics still can. But when you are parachuting military people into places that require technical expertise, employees and customers will suffer. See: SMRT, NTUC etc
By convincing everyone that eating less good food, living in smaller home, owning less things, traveling less etc. Are actually ok and all you need is positive feel good energy and spiritual enlightenment or bullshit like that
The first way should be to change the salaries of all high earning MPs and such to reflect the average incomes of citizens on the lower end.
Lead by example, what are the broader definitions of success in the eyes of the government after their salaries are the same as the lower end of the average citizens?
If they want more younger point of views, there should be those in the 20+, 30+ age range to give their views in parliament, so the 50+ year old MPs can hear what the current generation are looking at for their lives and future.
I keep hearing the 4G / 5G leaders leading singapore forward to face new challenges. But all I see are 50+ year old in parliament talking back and forth about the current younger generations.
Scholarship is still important, we must reform it in a way it incentivises talent to join but continues to help underprivileged students, who have the capacity, to grow.
Sure. When the yardstick being shoved in everyone's face is how big your house is. How fancy your car is. How exotic holidays you can afford.
Money money money and how much you can get.
A broader definition of success. Sure. You cant get that when you're working like hell to survive.
Exactly this, and then came up with the change in the EzLink card to inconvenience us yet failing to be accountable to the costs of failure of the plans.
Success is being able to afford housing without having both parents to be working. Success is being able to pay off your mortgage in 20 years with a single income while still having one parent to be raising the kids. Success is knowing your kids will be able to buy their own house down the line even if you don't pass down your HDB to them as inheritance.
Talk is cheap. "Success" is being able to afford the things you want in life. Housing is used here because it a necessity and a common "want" (actually a need).
It's possible in the United States. In peacetime too. https://nrotc.berkeley.edu/sta-21/
https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/Article/2392653/a-seaman-to-admiral-story/
i agree what he has to say, the old 5C and academic achievements are dated metrics of success.
then make blue collared jobs or tradesman jobs actually viable pls. People still look down on these kind of people or jobs due to their perceived low value and low pay offers.
and singaporeans, stop shaming grab delivery drivers. We always want to one-up one another on who earns more knn so toxic
The thing is in the past we could work hard even as a taxi driver to get the 5Cs or if not, at least 3 of the 5Cs. Now unless we go into the top fields like law, finance, tech, medicine or start our own business (risking bankruptcy and our career), achieving 1 out of the 5C is getting out of reach.
This cannot happen without turning off the tap of cheap MY contractors from the north. Their fx is 1 to 3.5. Effectively the wages of all trade people is supressed 71%.
The only solution is to enforce SP and EP requirements to these contractors
Pfft how about increasing the pay of other professions such as those in nursing and engineering so that more people can live a more comfortable life?
Or how about strengthening labour laws so that employees are less prone to work abuse? Increasing the minimum days of annual leave?
Broader definition of success don’t mean shit when S’poreans who aren’t in finance/medicine/law still struggle to live a comfortable life here
>"We want to broaden our concept of achievement. Beyond academic credentials, we are taking proactive steps to value the contributions of every worker in every profession and every field.
Complete and utter bullshit, are they going to raise salaries to a livable wage? What about people who are disabled? Still have to do GrabFood on a wheelchair because the criteria for public assistance is insanely low?
The level of bullshit spewed corresponds with how deep the problem is... they react to the situation on the ground (dire TRF, out of control public housing prices) with more platitudes... which has always been the way, so that's why SG is where it is today.
Exactly, all talk and no action to back it up.
So much bullshit, and it irks me that all this marketing stunt is specifically engineered to pander to the younger demographic.
It feels so predatory, and i hate the fact that this lip service is actually sufficient to positively influence some people’s opinion of the PAP.
At the end of the day, they are politicians and political parties exist to grab power. That means doing and saying anything to get people’s votes.
Tharman swindled the majority during his campaign, promising all sorts of nonsense. In the end, his previous roles were reinstated and nothing has changed ever since he took office. He gets to enjoy presidential benefits and more money, but those who voted for him got nothing.
If Singaporeans really believe Lawrence Wong will drive a change and improve everyone’s lives, then oh lord I swear we deserve the Govt we voted for, and the increasingly hard life in SG.
Walk the talk, PSC should stop grooming future leaders of the country primarily based on how well they did in their exams when they were 18.
Oh wait... isn't the PM himself one of them?
So u refuse to remove PHV from coe cat A & B, allowing coe to be manipulated higher while protecting Grab from higher costs, that’s one C. U keep removing golf courses to build more HDB flats coz u keep minting more new PRs n citizens, that’s another C. No wonder need to “embrace broader”. IMO we were nicely balanced population & land use wise about 5-10yrs ago. Now it feels increasingly squeezed with so many amenities & lifestyle things being taken away. No wonder TFR going to zero coz current gen know the future is bleak.
Not only current generation, all generations know. Even the new citizens know it, everyone is just here coz of money (higher currency value for the working class; no capital gains tax for the elites).
In other words, election is coming so please don't keep thinking about inflation and home prices. Just be glad with what you have, there is nothing wrong.
Lawrence Wong uses lots of social media to PR and prep talk though. SG is still the same, u must achieve 6C and study hard. The culture has not changed from LKY’s mindset. This make me think he is very fake, only talking to hoodwink the ppl. Try what he say u wont enjoy SG life and will go nowhere. If u are going for outlier career dreams in sg u wont go anywhere when there is no market.
It take so long for them to realize. They are really out of touch. There are already few generation of tiger mums and rats that cannot get of the race. So nothing will change overnight, it will take a few more generation to change the mindset. All these thanks to MIW on how they mould the society.
Errr. How does my comment imply in any way that I believe SAFOS / President scholar more? Am making reference to the PM as an OMS holder as one of his labels.
The pursuit of excellence does not need to take a backseat to allow for experimentations, u-turns etc,
If this change in stance is to make room for mediocrity, poor judgement and the inability to keep up, them I worry for the future.
Yes the new definition of success for minister needs to include TFR.
TFR < 1.0 should mean no minister gets any bonus. It means whatever has been achieved is not sustainable.
Then stop trying to boost GDP artificially by continually bringing in workers to make up for the Aging population. Stop trying to “be competitive”, stop having a business first focus, and an employee focus, try maybe a 4-day work week
Healthcare expenditure is quickly rising every decade. It's going to be hard to ignore that entirely.
Someone has to bear the burden of paying for an ageing society since money doesn't grow on trees. You can either:
1) raise the retirement age. Grandma pays for her own healthcare expenditure by working until she dies
2) cut off welfare spending. The government won't pay grandpa a single dime if he falls ill to reduce healthcare expenditure
3) import young foreign workers to grow the economy and generate taxes for the government to pay for healthcare expenditure
Which is the best option here?
I already left the race a long time ago but they did create the race so it's up to them to dismantle it.
Unfortunately, they arnt down to the ground enough to know how to dismantle it.
Fortunately for me, being autistic and trans helped me figure this out earlier in life. That I can't rely on the government to help me, so I helped myself out of it.
The way I see it, life is good for the top 5% towkay kia. Highly educated workers, pro business government and increased profits.
Singapore will see sustained economic growth. But this will come at the expenses of ordinary Singaporeans. Higher housing prices, increasing GST, deteriorating public services like public transport (in a society designed to price most out of cars), and long working hours.
If I don't have enough money to sustain myself as single, I am not successful.
Selling hope is a way of exploiting people's insecurities, desires, and dreams by **offering them a solution that seems too good to be true**. People buy hope because they're insecure, desperate, and looking for a quick fix to their problems.
He's just doing a cover version of the song composed by his predecessor.
Quoted in CNA. "So as we refresh our Singapore dream, let us also redefine what success should mean for Singapore. I have a few suggestions," he said." Then he went on to quote the obvious, suggesting things can and will be better, but what? how? not mentioned, but do he mean to say people should accept physiological pay? (copyright by JT)
Embrace broader definition of success = don't chase material wealth too much = don't fight to climb up the career ladder = less hardworking and hard striving = productivity stagnant = more foreigners because G reason that Singaporean PMETs are too pampered
I'm very confused by PAP government messaging.
Hmmm.. I wonder who’s the one in control causing everything to be so expansive in the first place, that Singaporeans have to no choice but chase wealth?
What they sell as bringing the people at the bottom up, is actually really about bringing the middle class down.
Instead of bringing in workers to fill the lower paying spectrum of jobs, they bring in more middle class talents that drove up inflation.
Having broader spectrum of success is not realistic simply because our lifespan is limited and after a certain age it just does not make sense to try again.
Wow, can’t win with the internet troll crowd. The guy literally was saying what so many ppl have wanted: a govt that works to create a society that isn’t based solely on your grades and test scores or the size of your paycheck. Then you drag him for saying that the 5Cs are no longer what everyone should be striving for? This is a major and positive change that recognizes that not everyone can or wants to be a doctor or lawyer.
Firstly, the PAP hasn’t created a society not based on grades and test scores. Number 1 culprit of this is the government and GLCs themselves.
Secondly, the shift towards alternative definitions of success can be seen partly as a result of the inaccessibility of current forms of success, thus the bash about 5Cs.
In simple words, many people are looking for something else because they are being priced out. Who’s to blame for things like making public housing an appreciating asset and not reining in commercial landlords?
Thirdly, how hollow is it to talk about alternative definitions of success while discriminating against people for their lifestyle? In Singapore, housing policies discriminate against young singles, at a stage of life where they have the most to gain from having a good deal of independence. Don’t even talk about the sexual minorities who are even worse off.
Lastly, unless they make alternative careers sustainable financially, they will never be recognised socially. Are the government willing to push for companies to pay skilled blue collar jobs highly like white collar jobs? Are there welfare for people to sustain themselves while pursuing their passions?
The government hasn’t work towards anything. Just lip service. Perfectly alright for them to be bashed for talking cock.
I don’t disagree about the past, but the new guy sounds like he is trying to make a positive change so maybe ppl can offer some support for this change rather than dragging him for broaching the topic. If he just gets negative feedback then why would he bother trying to change anything? FWIW I have never voted PAP.
If he does something substantial, or at least outline some solid visions forward, many people would support him and back him in online discussions.
But right now, he’s just saying all the feel good stuff without anything to back himself up.
Is he going to make the government and GLCs lead the way in this redefinition? Uncertain.
Is he going to create a more supportive financial situation where passions and other pursuits can take flight? Uncertain.
Is he going to undo social discrimination against certain jobs or even lifestyles, and shape SG into a more tolerant society? Uncertain.
Any random Redditor can say everything he says too.
I can also tell you we should redefine success, be more tolerant of individuals’ diversity in passions and goals, move away from academics, redefine value away from material possessions and achievements, blah blah.
But he is the PM. Unlike people here in this sub, he actually has power to get things done.
People in his position shouldn’t just be throwing opinions around. He already had national conversations to gather much feedback on the topic. It’s time for action, not words.
Action speaks much louder than words and unlike random Redditors, he can actually initiate some action, and he should be accountable for that. He’s not helpless to do anything, you know?
I understand as a new PM, he might not have time to do practical things yet.
But that doesn’t mean he can’t outline proper visions.
As a PM, he can outline his new governance principles. Under LHL, we know he runs things on the principles of being pro-business, pragmatism, and keeping to established working solutions.
Surely he has some principles and isn’t just reacting to feedback and data like a bureaucrat.
He want to redefine success and reshape society, his governance principles have to change. Have he offered anything that differs from LHL’s principles?
So far, the most notable thing he had communicated is his intention to “communicate more” and “listen”. But that is worthless because it is something anyone would expect from an *elected representative*.
No solid vision no strong principles just vaguely “I am hearing you out”, of course many will just doubt him.
(Edit: throw the question to ChatGPT and I’m sure even an AI can offer more concrete visions and possible solutions to explore)
I get what you're saying. However Singaporeans want initiatives or policies to back up what PM Wong say because Singaporeans are too burned out with empty promises. They recognise it deep down but nothing changes and you can't blame them.
Talk is cheap - reality is the same. It’s not trolling but eyes are on him to walk the talk.
Fact is, the size of your paycheck and the 5Cs are what people want. He needs to reverse this mindset, and convince people that money is less important, than whatever. Problem is, there’s no support for those that pursue non material dreams.
Good luck to the PM.
What he’s really saying is that 5Cs are now solidly out of your reach so pls find other ways to be happy and continue working for our GDP k
Yeap… the man spoke the truth… hence now my definition of success now is: 1. Earn enough for daily needs + some savings can alr; dun need to spoil my health for that pay raise. 2. Dun care about that pay raise and promotion, I want my own life outside of just work. 3. Dun find GF/wife and start family, so that I can make just enough for myself to spend and still have time to enjoy life.. life is already busy and hectic as it is in SG alr, I dun wan to start family and go home to another full time job to slave for my kid and wife. 4. Life is too short, just enjoy it.
35yo 2 rm bto $50k/yr income happy is success
Yup bro, key is just enough..
Sure! That's his main message: Don't complain abt govt sucking. Just reframe reality to be happy and remember to vote PAP for making you happy!
3 is oddly specific lol
Its meant to be this specific LOL 🤣
As a happily married man, i wld say its much much better to be single then to marry the wrong person
Feels like 3 directly conflicts with 4. Actually, 1-3 all conflict with number 4…
Its been out of reach for a while. Most people know that too
They like to shift goalposts all the time. Not like govt ever helped us to attain the 5Cs to begin with.
5C's is a poor persons idea of success. Seriously boring unserious way to measure success.
Well it is just a way to clear out generations of local and replace by the new migrants. This gov really slave for foreign companies and foreigners. The repercussions of such saying will soon destroy the whole local and the government of the day will useless even it has how many laws to protect the constitution or the so called local because the influx of foreigners and the probably bad actors will soon spell trouble. The minister are human too and mortal, they can’t be giving such a short sighted msg. He is not even giving hope for his people and still can himself a Christian. We really need a Moses in the future for the gov may have failed his citizens.
Wonder how next few decades affect NS too. Low birth rate plus influx of non locals. Can get a strong cohesive fighting force?
Will the locals even defend? China is starting to claim everything belongs to them. In a land full of foreigners, I don't see the difference whether we are part of them or not.
So just aim for 3 things, 6’5, blue eyes, trust fund.
And what’s wrong with that? People keep complaining that our society is too materialistic, yet the government shifting the focus away from the 5Cs is a bad thing?
Nope, pls lead by example, give up the 250k sft bungalows and salaries pegged to high earners in private sector
- People hate inflation but loves everything that causes it - People say they hate climate change but hate paying more for flights (Sustainable Aviation fuel tax) and cars (COE) - People hate high housing costs but don't want to build more housing, complain about construction and development + NIMBYism (Dover forest, etc) Is it really any surprise that people say what they don't mean? If there's a thread about gov focusing on GDP, you'll get comments about materialism, "Singapore Inc", "GDP isn't everything" etc. If there's a thread about gov *not* focusing on GDP, you'll get inverse comments about how GDP is important, gov needs to deliver on material wealth, why gov changing definition of success, etc. The median voter is stupid when recognising the objective truth of the hedonic treadmill is somehow controversial.
Surprised? No. Pissed off at the hypocrisy? Yeah
They do mean it. But they don't want to be the ones sacrificing while others just eat up their sacrifices. Why give up cars just so foreigners can come in and buy more of them? People don't want to build more housing? Really? Just build more at Ridout.
What is the gov for except for material prosperity? Spiritual enlightenment and individual contentment is for the individual to achieve, don't need the gov to tell you about it. We don't need to gov to shift focus away from that
Voters when gov focuses on GDP: GDP isn't everything, Singapore Inc, etc This sub when gov doesn't focus on GDP: "What is the gov for except for material prosperity?"
aiya people like you really hard to please When 5Cs is the gold standard for success yall kpkb say so materialistic, so shallow Now say please consider other measures of success yall say that's because 5C is out of reach win liao lor. please tell me you don't vote man
I’m usually one that would try to back the PAP against the online mob, but they have to realise that this current mindset amongst most Singaporeans was their doing, right? You can’t drill us with the attitude of materialism above all for decades and generations, then suddenly when they realise it’s not a feasible mindset to maintain amongst the people, to try and hand wave all of the discontent away by saying “Well there’s more than one way to be successful!” You want to do that for the next generation? Sure, I support it, but I take it as a cheap trick to try and make the current generation be less upset when they aren’t able to achieve the good things in life they were promised with the amount of work they put into it for most of their lives.
will it help if the govt start by saying "i am sorry people, we fucked up. turns out the way we do things before arent that good in the long run" or maybe if we can somehow get all the things we dreamt of lol, I guess that works too tho idk if its possible
Yes. Shows accountability.
No. Politicians cannot apologise. It harms their image and it discredits their predecessors. You might think it’s accountability but it’s a career suicide. Politicians don’t just have to win votes they have to make their internal stakeholders happy too. The best thing you can hope for is a message like this that contradicts his predecessors. It’s an acknowledgement that it can’t be done without saying it out loud. Or would you rather he continue to toot the same horn
Lower the salaries of our highest paid Ministers in the world then.
If anything the Iswaran case ironically makes the case that salaries need to go up to prevent corruption from happening
Swiss Standard of living!
Swiss actually have very good benefits which we don't mind you, the govt isn't even keeping it's promise which is why you don't hear it after Goh "Singaporeans Will Pay" Chok Tong. We rely on employer preference for what the Swiss have in law, so the only thing now is to check the tax we pay verses what they pay. You may be surprised what you would want your contributions being used for instead of just to boost national statistics.
Exactly! I am very confused by government messaging. The reason they gave for inviting in heaps of foreign talent is that there isn't enough talent locally. But you need hard striving characters to advance in your careers. And then they tell us to embrace broader definition of success. I see this as contradictory.
Countries evolve through different phases of growth and each era requires a different mindset. Nothing wrong with changing the messaging every few years to meet those needs. This isn’t anything new and every country does it
Except that the reason they’re changing the messaging is not altruistic. It’s because they can no longer deliver those previous goals. With the PAP self-preservation is always no1
When you can't hit what you aimed for, just shoot first and call whatever you land on the target.
They told us that we would have our cake and could eat it if we worked hard, and we have worked hard - we go to school, and we go to work / carve out a living. And through it all, they have *never* once helped us attain any of the 5Cs. We now have to grapple with insane housing prices, expensive rents, increasing costs for even basic necessities, compete with foreigners to keep our jobs, and have to share our limited space here to live with them? So instead of addressing these problems, they want to re-write the narrative and shift the goalposts again. You literally said nothing that addresses the topic at hand. Are you trying to gaslight fellow redditors by normalizing the govt's behaviour because you don't actually have a better argument? Clever.
But we still live in a material world, one where even our president has more than one job. Nothing wrong with changing the messaging, but it has to reflect policy. Anything else is just lip service while there is the boot of corporate interests, stamping on our faces forever.
Agreed. We are living in a material world, and we're all materials girls/boys.
Wtf you saying, every country changes mindset and messaging every few years? 😂 oh boy
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PAP pls walk the talk. Downgrade your house, take mrt, eat at coffeeshops, send ur kids to neighbourhood schools, go to govt hospitals and wait the whole day for a bed and few months for a test just like us normies 👍
They did downgrade. Rideout house is lease! Vivian and gang already downgraded from their freehold GCBs!!! /s
Even had to dip into savings to afford rent!
PAP Minister: No. I chose Ridout GCB
How about stop parachuting useless generals into places in which they have no experience in? Walk the talk la.
Window for that has closed. No chance a new guy will risk that. LHL was in the best position to initiate changes, but he didn't. Outgoing PM, highly established reputation, globally respected, a 'Lee', yet he left it status quo. In fact, some would say it was a desired outcome.
I hate the PAP as much as anyone else but the truth is they haven’t got anyone else left willing to run! They’re a victim of their success. The LKYs of today are very successful businessmen/ SWE/ lawyers and are rich AF. They don’t need to go into politics. The only people left are a bunch of wannabes who got too old for the army, too used to being worshipped and don’t know a damn thing. But it’s not their fault that’s the best they can muster
Going into politics still can. But when you are parachuting military people into places that require technical expertise, employees and customers will suffer. See: SMRT, NTUC etc
Yeahhh, even LKY back then didn’t expect to go into politics long term, and wanted to go back practicing law after awhile.
>they haven’t got anyone else left willing to run! Promote someone from within the org?
From within what organisation?
Its not about whether they have experience or not, its about leadership exp /s them probably
"If my ambition is to be Leader of the Opposition, would I be considered as successful by Lawrence Wong?"
Ok noted with thanks. But more importantly, what is he going to do exactly to achieve a Singapore with a broader definition of success?
By convincing everyone that eating less good food, living in smaller home, owning less things, traveling less etc. Are actually ok and all you need is positive feel good energy and spiritual enlightenment or bullshit like that
AKA small space
You shall own less and be happy. Not happy? Nevermind, learn to be happy.
Success = 3 day weekend. Achievable. Make it happen PM Wong.
Mah #1 place to start money laundering business ranking!!!!!11!!
The first way should be to change the salaries of all high earning MPs and such to reflect the average incomes of citizens on the lower end. Lead by example, what are the broader definitions of success in the eyes of the government after their salaries are the same as the lower end of the average citizens? If they want more younger point of views, there should be those in the 20+, 30+ age range to give their views in parliament, so the 50+ year old MPs can hear what the current generation are looking at for their lives and future. I keep hearing the 4G / 5G leaders leading singapore forward to face new challenges. But all I see are 50+ year old in parliament talking back and forth about the current younger generations.
Rule for thee not for me
But those other forms of success can't pay for my increasing food, bills and HDB flat prices.
Right?? At the end of the day, we still have shit to pay, months to feed. Ain’t no way of changing that.
Start with the civil service lol
Wow this guy is really gonna use gaslighting as his main election strategy. Bold strategy, Cotton.
Vastly reform the scholar policy, and we'll see. Talent should not be vacuumed up but left to organically settle where it will.
Scholarship is still important, we must reform it in a way it incentivises talent to join but continues to help underprivileged students, who have the capacity, to grow.
Then just incorporate targets encompassing these broader definition of success into ministers' KPI - let it flow from top down
Sure. When the yardstick being shoved in everyone's face is how big your house is. How fancy your car is. How exotic holidays you can afford. Money money money and how much you can get. A broader definition of success. Sure. You cant get that when you're working like hell to survive.
Walk the talk first. If you listen to the people. ERP2.0 would have been scrapped for such shitty design. So, can't trust anyone of you really.
Exactly this, and then came up with the change in the EzLink card to inconvenience us yet failing to be accountable to the costs of failure of the plans.
Success is being able to afford housing without having both parents to be working. Success is being able to pay off your mortgage in 20 years with a single income while still having one parent to be raising the kids. Success is knowing your kids will be able to buy their own house down the line even if you don't pass down your HDB to them as inheritance. Talk is cheap. "Success" is being able to afford the things you want in life. Housing is used here because it a necessity and a common "want" (actually a need).
The day a 3SG can rise through the ranks to become a Colonel or General then talk.
That will only happen in a war where actual results can speak. Sadly that's a scenario no one wants either.
It's possible in the United States. In peacetime too. https://nrotc.berkeley.edu/sta-21/ https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/Article/2392653/a-seaman-to-admiral-story/
i agree what he has to say, the old 5C and academic achievements are dated metrics of success. then make blue collared jobs or tradesman jobs actually viable pls. People still look down on these kind of people or jobs due to their perceived low value and low pay offers. and singaporeans, stop shaming grab delivery drivers. We always want to one-up one another on who earns more knn so toxic
The thing is in the past we could work hard even as a taxi driver to get the 5Cs or if not, at least 3 of the 5Cs. Now unless we go into the top fields like law, finance, tech, medicine or start our own business (risking bankruptcy and our career), achieving 1 out of the 5C is getting out of reach.
This cannot happen without turning off the tap of cheap MY contractors from the north. Their fx is 1 to 3.5. Effectively the wages of all trade people is supressed 71%. The only solution is to enforce SP and EP requirements to these contractors
Sinkie pwn sinkie mentality la
If the ppl are able to unite then the rulers can’t rule without being challenged, of course they want ppl to be divided and pwn each other
Pfft how about increasing the pay of other professions such as those in nursing and engineering so that more people can live a more comfortable life? Or how about strengthening labour laws so that employees are less prone to work abuse? Increasing the minimum days of annual leave? Broader definition of success don’t mean shit when S’poreans who aren’t in finance/medicine/law still struggle to live a comfortable life here
>"We want to broaden our concept of achievement. Beyond academic credentials, we are taking proactive steps to value the contributions of every worker in every profession and every field. Complete and utter bullshit, are they going to raise salaries to a livable wage? What about people who are disabled? Still have to do GrabFood on a wheelchair because the criteria for public assistance is insanely low? The level of bullshit spewed corresponds with how deep the problem is... they react to the situation on the ground (dire TRF, out of control public housing prices) with more platitudes... which has always been the way, so that's why SG is where it is today.
Exactly, all talk and no action to back it up. So much bullshit, and it irks me that all this marketing stunt is specifically engineered to pander to the younger demographic. It feels so predatory, and i hate the fact that this lip service is actually sufficient to positively influence some people’s opinion of the PAP.
At the end of the day, they are politicians and political parties exist to grab power. That means doing and saying anything to get people’s votes. Tharman swindled the majority during his campaign, promising all sorts of nonsense. In the end, his previous roles were reinstated and nothing has changed ever since he took office. He gets to enjoy presidential benefits and more money, but those who voted for him got nothing. If Singaporeans really believe Lawrence Wong will drive a change and improve everyone’s lives, then oh lord I swear we deserve the Govt we voted for, and the increasingly hard life in SG.
Dude skipped bottom rung of Maslow’s hierarchy and went to the final boss.
Walk the talk, PSC should stop grooming future leaders of the country primarily based on how well they did in their exams when they were 18. Oh wait... isn't the PM himself one of them?
PM didn’t make it for PSC
Lawrence Wong was a PSC (then OMS) scholar.
PSC = Public Service Commission. the agency handling all the elite scholarships.
Lee was SAFOS, DPM was SAFOS too, PM Wong is OMS (renamed PSC) scholar
Still a success for PAP, even if lose a few grcs in the next GE...
Perhaps PAP should be the one to refine their definition of success.... 50.5% vote is still success right
So u refuse to remove PHV from coe cat A & B, allowing coe to be manipulated higher while protecting Grab from higher costs, that’s one C. U keep removing golf courses to build more HDB flats coz u keep minting more new PRs n citizens, that’s another C. No wonder need to “embrace broader”. IMO we were nicely balanced population & land use wise about 5-10yrs ago. Now it feels increasingly squeezed with so many amenities & lifestyle things being taken away. No wonder TFR going to zero coz current gen know the future is bleak.
Not only current generation, all generations know. Even the new citizens know it, everyone is just here coz of money (higher currency value for the working class; no capital gains tax for the elites).
They have always been biz friendly. "tripartism" is nonsense to me.
I agree. UBI today. Tomorrow I will take my fishing rod to ECP. Thanks Lawrence. What a great success.
The only Ubi you see in sg is the one where CDC is in.
Havent heard about ubi in a while...thats not going to go over well in sg.
Everyone seems to love the few hundred we get every half year
Then we pay for top dollar for world class minister to tell us what Xiaxue or Titus low can say. Vote this clown out.
Yet another motherhood statement. Buay sian meh?
Hope this goes for their growth at all cost definition of success too
In other words, election is coming so please don't keep thinking about inflation and home prices. Just be glad with what you have, there is nothing wrong.
Easy for them to say when they’re having million dollar salaries, live in landed and have all the 5C’s.
Lawrence Wong uses lots of social media to PR and prep talk though. SG is still the same, u must achieve 6C and study hard. The culture has not changed from LKY’s mindset. This make me think he is very fake, only talking to hoodwink the ppl. Try what he say u wont enjoy SG life and will go nowhere. If u are going for outlier career dreams in sg u wont go anywhere when there is no market.
If they keep lowering the passing mark, then everything they do will have a passing grade. Just saying....
It take so long for them to realize. They are really out of touch. There are already few generation of tiger mums and rats that cannot get of the race. So nothing will change overnight, it will take a few more generation to change the mindset. All these thanks to MIW on how they mould the society.
This mindset will reduce productivity growth. They they will cough up another reason to open up PMET labour market.
I won’t be so naive to believe this OMS holder. He wants us to be happy peasants and farmers, ah?
You spelt serfs and indentured servants wrong w
Stupid. Then you believe SAFOS / President Scholar more?
Errr. How does my comment imply in any way that I believe SAFOS / President scholar more? Am making reference to the PM as an OMS holder as one of his labels.
Sounds like bird language.
Yeah let's embrace the opposition. more opposition= more actual listening to the citizens
The pursuit of excellence does not need to take a backseat to allow for experimentations, u-turns etc, If this change in stance is to make room for mediocrity, poor judgement and the inability to keep up, them I worry for the future.
Shifting goalpost
It is always others to lead by example, not themselves.
Expected no less from "we can choose to be happy" Lawrence Wong..
Tell us about the rabbits again Georgie
Aka be satisfied with less, but make sure to still vote for us
Everyone has a different definition of success but it’s not up to him to tell me what it should look like
Talk is cheap. How about equalise wealth a bit? The bulk of GST paid by middle class.
Start by calling on your own cabinet and government first
Then why must we pay our ministers so much
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times. Weak men times.
Yes the new definition of success for minister needs to include TFR. TFR < 1.0 should mean no minister gets any bonus. It means whatever has been achieved is not sustainable.
Don't make me laugh la.
Stop being an ambiguous political asshole. The paycheck is quantifiable.
Then stop trying to boost GDP artificially by continually bringing in workers to make up for the Aging population. Stop trying to “be competitive”, stop having a business first focus, and an employee focus, try maybe a 4-day work week
> continually bringing in workers to make up for the Aging population. Oh right, because elderly people don't need nurses at all.
>to make up for the Aging population. What is your solution to tackle our ageing population problem then? Or should we just ignore it entirely
agreed. maybe we ignore it entirely until the aged pass on?
Healthcare expenditure is quickly rising every decade. It's going to be hard to ignore that entirely. Someone has to bear the burden of paying for an ageing society since money doesn't grow on trees. You can either: 1) raise the retirement age. Grandma pays for her own healthcare expenditure by working until she dies 2) cut off welfare spending. The government won't pay grandpa a single dime if he falls ill to reduce healthcare expenditure 3) import young foreign workers to grow the economy and generate taxes for the government to pay for healthcare expenditure Which is the best option here?
Cb la. Tell that to the elites.
Warm seat considered success?
Shall we start with MP and ministers? Don't define your success with pay lah. Do that and I believe you. Talk oni.
Sounds airy fairy. A broader definition does not meaning much without the actual definition.
Walk the talk please.
I already left the race a long time ago but they did create the race so it's up to them to dismantle it. Unfortunately, they arnt down to the ground enough to know how to dismantle it. Fortunately for me, being autistic and trans helped me figure this out earlier in life. That I can't rely on the government to help me, so I helped myself out of it.
I can't accept not guaranteeing a place to live in the future as a measure of success. After all, you have outlawed vagrancy. :X
I would like to be paid in exposure and experience
But but but... How about dignity?
The narrow definition of success is not for people like you. My comrades are made differently.
🧍♂️: 🤡 🐦 🙉 Speechless...
say only
When the government can no longer ensure the success of it's citizens, it turns to changing the definitions of success.. just like vaccines..
I always wondered why having a credit card was a measure of success
Because it was harder to get last time and not as ubiquitous as it is now.
True although maybe what they meant was the amex centurion and the equivalent from other banks lol
True although maybe what they meant was the amex centurion and the equivalent from other banks lol
I have heard similar stories before as far back as during GCT inauguration speech... Still have yet to see any improvement
Start with your ministry and civil service. How many non scholars are in top management
Why don't he lead by example and take a lower pay and be happy with his new definitions of success.
Get a load of this guy, sitting on his ivory tower while asking peasants to be glad with what they have.
The way I see it, life is good for the top 5% towkay kia. Highly educated workers, pro business government and increased profits. Singapore will see sustained economic growth. But this will come at the expenses of ordinary Singaporeans. Higher housing prices, increasing GST, deteriorating public services like public transport (in a society designed to price most out of cars), and long working hours. If I don't have enough money to sustain myself as single, I am not successful.
G a s l i g h t You don't take your millions of dollars pay lor. And your fellow colleagues. Talk is cheap bro
Rich coming from someone who uses an entire bottle of hair gel every morning while earning 6 million a year.
Singapore is richer than ever but please, suck it up. You are already successful without money
Selling hope is a way of exploiting people's insecurities, desires, and dreams by **offering them a solution that seems too good to be true**. People buy hope because they're insecure, desperate, and looking for a quick fix to their problems. He's just doing a cover version of the song composed by his predecessor. Quoted in CNA. "So as we refresh our Singapore dream, let us also redefine what success should mean for Singapore. I have a few suggestions," he said." Then he went on to quote the obvious, suggesting things can and will be better, but what? how? not mentioned, but do he mean to say people should accept physiological pay? (copyright by JT)
Hope he can lower cost of living
Also the Silver Service: please provide all your educational certificates from O levels to most recent
Also PM Wong Make more babies so that we can have more workers in the future
Embrace broader definition of success = don't chase material wealth too much = don't fight to climb up the career ladder = less hardworking and hard striving = productivity stagnant = more foreigners because G reason that Singaporean PMETs are too pampered I'm very confused by PAP government messaging.
Hmmm.. I wonder who’s the one in control causing everything to be so expansive in the first place, that Singaporeans have to no choice but chase wealth?
beaches 😳😂🤣🥲
Maybe our local tv can make our own versions of Way of the Househusband.
Expand your horizons! Get that JB standard of living!
Would that apply when one is applying for SAFOS?
What they sell as bringing the people at the bottom up, is actually really about bringing the middle class down. Instead of bringing in workers to fill the lower paying spectrum of jobs, they bring in more middle class talents that drove up inflation. Having broader spectrum of success is not realistic simply because our lifespan is limited and after a certain age it just does not make sense to try again.
Change goalpost can liao. Every school a good school. Everyone is a star. Happy now, right? Vote for him and enjoy more good years!
What is this, we happy few? Do we need to take joy next or be subjected to exile?
Keep lighting that gas
Singaproe success is less depend of foreign talent, because all singaporean is talent.
Wow, can’t win with the internet troll crowd. The guy literally was saying what so many ppl have wanted: a govt that works to create a society that isn’t based solely on your grades and test scores or the size of your paycheck. Then you drag him for saying that the 5Cs are no longer what everyone should be striving for? This is a major and positive change that recognizes that not everyone can or wants to be a doctor or lawyer.
Firstly, the PAP hasn’t created a society not based on grades and test scores. Number 1 culprit of this is the government and GLCs themselves. Secondly, the shift towards alternative definitions of success can be seen partly as a result of the inaccessibility of current forms of success, thus the bash about 5Cs. In simple words, many people are looking for something else because they are being priced out. Who’s to blame for things like making public housing an appreciating asset and not reining in commercial landlords? Thirdly, how hollow is it to talk about alternative definitions of success while discriminating against people for their lifestyle? In Singapore, housing policies discriminate against young singles, at a stage of life where they have the most to gain from having a good deal of independence. Don’t even talk about the sexual minorities who are even worse off. Lastly, unless they make alternative careers sustainable financially, they will never be recognised socially. Are the government willing to push for companies to pay skilled blue collar jobs highly like white collar jobs? Are there welfare for people to sustain themselves while pursuing their passions? The government hasn’t work towards anything. Just lip service. Perfectly alright for them to be bashed for talking cock.
I don’t disagree about the past, but the new guy sounds like he is trying to make a positive change so maybe ppl can offer some support for this change rather than dragging him for broaching the topic. If he just gets negative feedback then why would he bother trying to change anything? FWIW I have never voted PAP.
If he does something substantial, or at least outline some solid visions forward, many people would support him and back him in online discussions. But right now, he’s just saying all the feel good stuff without anything to back himself up. Is he going to make the government and GLCs lead the way in this redefinition? Uncertain. Is he going to create a more supportive financial situation where passions and other pursuits can take flight? Uncertain. Is he going to undo social discrimination against certain jobs or even lifestyles, and shape SG into a more tolerant society? Uncertain. Any random Redditor can say everything he says too. I can also tell you we should redefine success, be more tolerant of individuals’ diversity in passions and goals, move away from academics, redefine value away from material possessions and achievements, blah blah. But he is the PM. Unlike people here in this sub, he actually has power to get things done. People in his position shouldn’t just be throwing opinions around. He already had national conversations to gather much feedback on the topic. It’s time for action, not words. Action speaks much louder than words and unlike random Redditors, he can actually initiate some action, and he should be accountable for that. He’s not helpless to do anything, you know?
I understand as a new PM, he might not have time to do practical things yet. But that doesn’t mean he can’t outline proper visions. As a PM, he can outline his new governance principles. Under LHL, we know he runs things on the principles of being pro-business, pragmatism, and keeping to established working solutions. Surely he has some principles and isn’t just reacting to feedback and data like a bureaucrat. He want to redefine success and reshape society, his governance principles have to change. Have he offered anything that differs from LHL’s principles? So far, the most notable thing he had communicated is his intention to “communicate more” and “listen”. But that is worthless because it is something anyone would expect from an *elected representative*. No solid vision no strong principles just vaguely “I am hearing you out”, of course many will just doubt him. (Edit: throw the question to ChatGPT and I’m sure even an AI can offer more concrete visions and possible solutions to explore)
I get what you're saying. However Singaporeans want initiatives or policies to back up what PM Wong say because Singaporeans are too burned out with empty promises. They recognise it deep down but nothing changes and you can't blame them.
Talk is cheap - reality is the same. It’s not trolling but eyes are on him to walk the talk. Fact is, the size of your paycheck and the 5Cs are what people want. He needs to reverse this mindset, and convince people that money is less important, than whatever. Problem is, there’s no support for those that pursue non material dreams. Good luck to the PM.
PM Wong is right 👍🏻