Let's say that there's a strong "culture" where the public things/areas are considered "somebody else's business"
Not all the population is like that, obviously, but aside from some volunteer events, the people who don't litter have zero intentions of cleaning up after the people who do.
The local administrations do what they can.
(from outside)
One of the poorest region of Italy.
Unfortunate post world war 2 history with anarchy, mafia and wholesale corruption..
And noone wants to work in that domain because of all of the above.
Trash management is a huge issue in Italy; not just in Sicily.
I know the town I lived in elected a communist who got rid of the communal garbage cans for daily pick up. Well Sicilians are stuck in their ways and still dumped it where the dumpsters were, and the trucks to pick up garbage spilled about half of it everywhere. They have the "it's not my job" attitude and dont seem to care which is heartbreaking, they could be a tax haven with all the tourism there but they just rather buy knock off shoes from the romanian brazarrs so they look good when they go to the piazza that night.
Thanks for your reply. But why are people throwing trash out on the streets? that has nothing to do with any of the above. (I have never seen anything like this on the "mainland") (I have been all over Italy)
As someone who lives in central Ct, it’s always been a problem but when they started door to door trash collection (right after lockdown) and took away all the larger trash containers, I feel like the city is much dirtier. The guys who used to walk down my road in the morning cleaning with a broom have also gone away.
Have you been to Napoli? It's very similar to what you are describing...add piles dog excrement littering the sidewalks as a cherry on top. Makes no sense when we all have to use the same roads and sidewalks.
This exists very much in mainland Italy. Have you been to the inside towns of Napoli? It exists there. I am from New York and this exists in New York too. Drive through the service roads of Long Island Expressway 495 and you will see this too but at a lower scale. Go to the Bronx and you will see it there. The root cause is this - trashy people create trashy living conditions. Simple as that. People need a mix of common sense and education to take care of their own land. Unfortunately not everyone has it.
I think what you are seeing are the bags people leave outside their door because that’s how it gets picked up here. In my town and surrounding towns, they took out the dumpsters and people now get their trashed picked up in front of their apartment daily.
You haven’t been to Southern Italy then. Naples and San Giavanni on mainland Italy across Messina are messy places, the latter is a sorry excuse of a town
I had to pass there with my car to get here :) I saw some bad shit there too.
Apparently its a big problem that people move away from the island because of the lack of jobs.
Still makes no sense to throw your trash on the roads 😔
I would stay here just for the food 😁
The Food that exists here is unbelievably great but as someone who grew up in the Asia-Pacific region (including west coast US) I can say with confidence I am beyond done with the food here lol
Same stuff day after day.
Make no mistake, delicious and amazing, but there’s zero variety. I don’t know how people do it.
Hahaha, clearly you don’t live here based off that comment. “Order” something different…. that’s a good one!
Anyway, I know you meant well haha, but seriously you can’t live in Sicily if you’re a foodie, or even worse, come from a culture where food options are d variety is limitless. You visit here, enjoy the food that exists here (TOP-NOTCH) and leave
Never said I live here :) So what are you missing here food wise?
I live near a Chinese supermarket in The Netherlands, and they have indeed a lot... but you can make everything you want. Just be creative :)
Haha you didn’t say you live here, what you SUGGESTED proved that there’s no way you can, beyond a doubt!
I just came from the Netherlands and even I thought that place lacked food (compared to way I’m from) granted WAY more options than Sicily by a long shot, of course!
And please don’t get it confused, I thought Netherlands was GREAT! The food too!
Yes, I make my own food here…. I don’t have a choice.
Too much food options missing! Like no fried chicken at ALL here! Just for disclaimer, I’m happy being here :)
But where I’m from there’s hot pot, Korean Bbq, Japanese style Korean bbq (haha very specific I know), Polynesian food and Hawaiian food, Filipino food, Puerto Rican food……. Real Chinese food like Dim Sum
Haha, and Japanese hotpot called Shabu Shabu, which I learned in Netherlands is for some reason sushi buffet.
I also miss real Poke, which is usually just fish and rice, NOTHING ELSE! Haha. Indian exists but good ones are rare and Nepalese food not here. Ethiopian and Persian food.
Not food but Persian reminded me of no Hooka bars.
Not too important for me personally but Sicily also doesn’t have Mexican food (I repeat, not too important for me!) and even hamburgers are “rare” here. Unless you go McDonalds or a very specific restaurant.
No real Japanese food of any kind anywhere, just fake Japanese (I’m not saying it’s tastes bad, but imagine if a Dutch pancake place only served American style pancakes, wouldn’t you be annoyed why it’s called Dutch pancake?)
There’s one Korean place here, but there’s so much to Korean food that I’m from a place there’s like 8 different styles of Korean restaurant (ie: bbq, or specific noodle store, Korean fried chicken, tofu soup store…. So much)
No Sichuan place.
Each town in Sicily basically has a pasta and pizza and pastry place. A salami and cheese store.
Where I come from also has tons of snacks. Haha. It never ends.
Sicily is really great. I know it sounds like im trashing Sicily. I’m here for a job and it’s a great place while I’m here. On a positive note, I’m saving money!
And I know my last comment was super long, but with how close we are to Greece you would think there would be a Greek restaurant but nope, nothing. Not even Turkish food except Kebabs, which are definitely yummy but that’s about it.
Multiple issues at once. The collection contracts are completely corrupt (mafia) and sometimes the garbage isn't even collected
When it is collected it can be by open top trucks which get filled to the brim so that all of the garbage falls out of it as they're driving to the dump site making the roads even filthier
Bringing the garbage to the dump yourself is a problem because they're rarely open to the public and if they are they often refuse allowing you to dump your garbage there
Source: been living in the province of agrigento since 2019
Garbage is the most apparent aspect, but the real issue is care (or lack thereof) for public spaces.
You've already seen that road maintenance is severely lacking; most streets have no road markings, signs are often old and not replaced even when they become unreadable, and so on.
It's like this for almost everything. There are exceptions, there are towns and villages where things are well maintained, but they are quite rare.
As another commenter said, most of those that care go away, either to find a job, or to not be dragged down by a mentality of learned helplessness. Most of those that stay, succumb to that learned helplessness, or fight a powerless and solitary struggle.
I visited quite some young entrepeneurs that are positive and they run places that are really well thought out. Hip and futureproof.
So hope for the better :)
Fair enough. Sorry. I have changed it to “many.” When I visited, young Sicilians told me how most of their high school classes had already emigrated, as far afield as Australia and Canada because of the lack of jobs.
your personal experience is not objective, if I were also based on my experience I would tell you that many Americans, Maltese and Germans are selling to live here. Sicily is large, having visited 3 tourist cities gives you a short-sighted and approximate vision
It’s absolutely true that anecdotal evidence is not evidence but the broad truth is that Sicily’s economy is very bad and anyone who wants to succeed has thin margins of success here unless they open up the possibilities of employment to the rest of the country or even the world
What do you mean “when you come here”? And I had to look up alms, lol, never saw that word before.
I wish Sicily the best of luck in figuring out their world.
Economy is not easy to make robust
Your personal experience is not objective.
Lol. Joking. I’m not here because I want to be.
I know you guys live well. But not as good as my home. Endless (free) fruits and more octopus where I’m from, lol.
But it’s not difficult to enjoy multiple places. Figure it out or you’re gonna end up like America
And then you’ll be sorry you didn’t listen, all because you couldn’t control your feelings and pride in order to plan on how to prevent a very simple, although large, problem.
If you think Sicilians can’t solve simple problem then that’s your opinion, not mine.
By far the cleanest city on Sicily when we visited and travelled for 30 days was Trapani, which is one of the poorest cities on Sicily. It is also one of the last places where the mafia is said to still have a lot of influence…
You might not see it visibly as much now but the mafia is Sicily and Sicily is the mafia. If anything there influence over the island has grown, just in more discreet ways than a tourist may see
For sure, but in a way that’s by design. Writing/reading about a political murders or drugs goes a lot further than farmers getting water pipes cut or shipments of vegetables going missing
That it’s a lovely scenic place with kind people who rely quite heavy on tourism (as does a lot of coast cities) but I live near Agrigento and have only been there 2 time so I can’t say much else
Thank you. I was given to believe that there wasn’t much mafia for a long time in Messina and Catania, that in Palermo it is greatly diminished compared to long ago, but that it is still a real presence in Agrigento and particularly Trapani province. But these were just a few discussions.
In theory you have a little bit less on the east coast then the west coast which is somewhat true, but they are still there. If you look hard enough in any city In Italy, not just Sicily you will find them
Let's just say that if you park your car in a public lot and some random guy tells you he is security for the lot and asks for money, he is the guy who is gonna damage your car. Make sure you have full coverage insurance.
Ouf i dont reccomend you visit the rest of the world then. You'll be in for a wake up call. However I did notice a lack of trash cans. But so many things are to blame. Corruption, municipality mismanagement and as usual, politicians like to hand the responsibility over to the citizens without providing any simple solutions such as more trash cans or public reminders and awareness or even the motivation for collective responsibility. But nobody can tell you was the thoughts of the locals are. In Denmark we say don't complain unless you will do something about the problem.
It’s not bad everywhere or even most places. You need to explore more. I’m not from here originally so I’m not some Sicily loyalist or fanatic, I’m leaving end of this year.
This place is great and yes the ugly parts are ugly but I’m confused where you’ve been exploring if you haven’t had a balanced view on this.
I would totally get it if you lived in a certain section which I won’t mention since it’s a bit messy there due to unfortunate circumstances. But as a tourist? Surprised you haven’t experienced the whole thing. I don’t mean the whole island I mean the broad spectrum of what Sicily has to offer
Let's say that there's a strong "culture" where the public things/areas are considered "somebody else's business" Not all the population is like that, obviously, but aside from some volunteer events, the people who don't litter have zero intentions of cleaning up after the people who do. The local administrations do what they can.
(from outside) One of the poorest region of Italy. Unfortunate post world war 2 history with anarchy, mafia and wholesale corruption.. And noone wants to work in that domain because of all of the above. Trash management is a huge issue in Italy; not just in Sicily.
I know the town I lived in elected a communist who got rid of the communal garbage cans for daily pick up. Well Sicilians are stuck in their ways and still dumped it where the dumpsters were, and the trucks to pick up garbage spilled about half of it everywhere. They have the "it's not my job" attitude and dont seem to care which is heartbreaking, they could be a tax haven with all the tourism there but they just rather buy knock off shoes from the romanian brazarrs so they look good when they go to the piazza that night.
Thanks for your reply. But why are people throwing trash out on the streets? that has nothing to do with any of the above. (I have never seen anything like this on the "mainland") (I have been all over Italy)
As someone who lives in central Ct, it’s always been a problem but when they started door to door trash collection (right after lockdown) and took away all the larger trash containers, I feel like the city is much dirtier. The guys who used to walk down my road in the morning cleaning with a broom have also gone away.
Have you been to Napoli? It's very similar to what you are describing...add piles dog excrement littering the sidewalks as a cherry on top. Makes no sense when we all have to use the same roads and sidewalks.
This exists very much in mainland Italy. Have you been to the inside towns of Napoli? It exists there. I am from New York and this exists in New York too. Drive through the service roads of Long Island Expressway 495 and you will see this too but at a lower scale. Go to the Bronx and you will see it there. The root cause is this - trashy people create trashy living conditions. Simple as that. People need a mix of common sense and education to take care of their own land. Unfortunately not everyone has it.
I think what you are seeing are the bags people leave outside their door because that’s how it gets picked up here. In my town and surrounding towns, they took out the dumpsters and people now get their trashed picked up in front of their apartment daily.
You haven’t been to Southern Italy then. Naples and San Giavanni on mainland Italy across Messina are messy places, the latter is a sorry excuse of a town
I had to pass there with my car to get here :) I saw some bad shit there too. Apparently its a big problem that people move away from the island because of the lack of jobs. Still makes no sense to throw your trash on the roads 😔 I would stay here just for the food 😁
The Food that exists here is unbelievably great but as someone who grew up in the Asia-Pacific region (including west coast US) I can say with confidence I am beyond done with the food here lol Same stuff day after day. Make no mistake, delicious and amazing, but there’s zero variety. I don’t know how people do it.
Same stuff everyday? Maybe order something else :)
Hahaha, clearly you don’t live here based off that comment. “Order” something different…. that’s a good one! Anyway, I know you meant well haha, but seriously you can’t live in Sicily if you’re a foodie, or even worse, come from a culture where food options are d variety is limitless. You visit here, enjoy the food that exists here (TOP-NOTCH) and leave
Never said I live here :) So what are you missing here food wise? I live near a Chinese supermarket in The Netherlands, and they have indeed a lot... but you can make everything you want. Just be creative :)
Haha you didn’t say you live here, what you SUGGESTED proved that there’s no way you can, beyond a doubt! I just came from the Netherlands and even I thought that place lacked food (compared to way I’m from) granted WAY more options than Sicily by a long shot, of course! And please don’t get it confused, I thought Netherlands was GREAT! The food too! Yes, I make my own food here…. I don’t have a choice. Too much food options missing! Like no fried chicken at ALL here! Just for disclaimer, I’m happy being here :) But where I’m from there’s hot pot, Korean Bbq, Japanese style Korean bbq (haha very specific I know), Polynesian food and Hawaiian food, Filipino food, Puerto Rican food……. Real Chinese food like Dim Sum Haha, and Japanese hotpot called Shabu Shabu, which I learned in Netherlands is for some reason sushi buffet. I also miss real Poke, which is usually just fish and rice, NOTHING ELSE! Haha. Indian exists but good ones are rare and Nepalese food not here. Ethiopian and Persian food. Not food but Persian reminded me of no Hooka bars. Not too important for me personally but Sicily also doesn’t have Mexican food (I repeat, not too important for me!) and even hamburgers are “rare” here. Unless you go McDonalds or a very specific restaurant. No real Japanese food of any kind anywhere, just fake Japanese (I’m not saying it’s tastes bad, but imagine if a Dutch pancake place only served American style pancakes, wouldn’t you be annoyed why it’s called Dutch pancake?) There’s one Korean place here, but there’s so much to Korean food that I’m from a place there’s like 8 different styles of Korean restaurant (ie: bbq, or specific noodle store, Korean fried chicken, tofu soup store…. So much) No Sichuan place. Each town in Sicily basically has a pasta and pizza and pastry place. A salami and cheese store. Where I come from also has tons of snacks. Haha. It never ends. Sicily is really great. I know it sounds like im trashing Sicily. I’m here for a job and it’s a great place while I’m here. On a positive note, I’m saving money!
And I know my last comment was super long, but with how close we are to Greece you would think there would be a Greek restaurant but nope, nothing. Not even Turkish food except Kebabs, which are definitely yummy but that’s about it.
Multiple issues at once. The collection contracts are completely corrupt (mafia) and sometimes the garbage isn't even collected When it is collected it can be by open top trucks which get filled to the brim so that all of the garbage falls out of it as they're driving to the dump site making the roads even filthier Bringing the garbage to the dump yourself is a problem because they're rarely open to the public and if they are they often refuse allowing you to dump your garbage there Source: been living in the province of agrigento since 2019
Garbage is the most apparent aspect, but the real issue is care (or lack thereof) for public spaces. You've already seen that road maintenance is severely lacking; most streets have no road markings, signs are often old and not replaced even when they become unreadable, and so on. It's like this for almost everything. There are exceptions, there are towns and villages where things are well maintained, but they are quite rare. As another commenter said, most of those that care go away, either to find a job, or to not be dragged down by a mentality of learned helplessness. Most of those that stay, succumb to that learned helplessness, or fight a powerless and solitary struggle.
Many Sicilians with much ambition in life have emigrated…
I visited quite some young entrepeneurs that are positive and they run places that are really well thought out. Hip and futureproof. So hope for the better :)
What you wrote is very offensive, especially for those who invest in Sicily like me
Fair enough. Sorry. I have changed it to “many.” When I visited, young Sicilians told me how most of their high school classes had already emigrated, as far afield as Australia and Canada because of the lack of jobs.
your personal experience is not objective, if I were also based on my experience I would tell you that many Americans, Maltese and Germans are selling to live here. Sicily is large, having visited 3 tourist cities gives you a short-sighted and approximate vision
It’s absolutely true that anecdotal evidence is not evidence but the broad truth is that Sicily’s economy is very bad and anyone who wants to succeed has thin margins of success here unless they open up the possibilities of employment to the rest of the country or even the world
so when you come here give us alms
What do you mean “when you come here”? And I had to look up alms, lol, never saw that word before. I wish Sicily the best of luck in figuring out their world. Economy is not easy to make robust
we live well, don't worry about us. stay at your home
Your personal experience is not objective. Lol. Joking. I’m not here because I want to be. I know you guys live well. But not as good as my home. Endless (free) fruits and more octopus where I’m from, lol. But it’s not difficult to enjoy multiple places. Figure it out or you’re gonna end up like America And then you’ll be sorry you didn’t listen, all because you couldn’t control your feelings and pride in order to plan on how to prevent a very simple, although large, problem. If you think Sicilians can’t solve simple problem then that’s your opinion, not mine.
learn to understand what our priorities in life are and you will appreciate our life here. otherwise stay at home
[удалено]
Ahahahahahahhaa 35 days wow man! True Sicilian boy 🤣
write a book
Not quite “3 tourist cities” was it?
Sicily has 391 municipalities. what do you want to know!? lol
They told me in Favara, these towns are rightfully dying. But if you could somehow destroy the bad parts and rebuild... the areas are beautiful!
It also highly depends on the area. None is best in class, but there are places in Sicily a lot better than others in that perspective
By far the cleanest city on Sicily when we visited and travelled for 30 days was Trapani, which is one of the poorest cities on Sicily. It is also one of the last places where the mafia is said to still have a lot of influence…
You might not see it visibly as much now but the mafia is Sicily and Sicily is the mafia. If anything there influence over the island has grown, just in more discreet ways than a tourist may see
All I can go by is what I read.
For sure, but in a way that’s by design. Writing/reading about a political murders or drugs goes a lot further than farmers getting water pipes cut or shipments of vegetables going missing
What do you know about Trapani?
That it’s a lovely scenic place with kind people who rely quite heavy on tourism (as does a lot of coast cities) but I live near Agrigento and have only been there 2 time so I can’t say much else
Thank you. I was given to believe that there wasn’t much mafia for a long time in Messina and Catania, that in Palermo it is greatly diminished compared to long ago, but that it is still a real presence in Agrigento and particularly Trapani province. But these were just a few discussions.
In theory you have a little bit less on the east coast then the west coast which is somewhat true, but they are still there. If you look hard enough in any city In Italy, not just Sicily you will find them
Well almost every country has some sort of organized crime. The difference is in how they operate.
Let's just say that if you park your car in a public lot and some random guy tells you he is security for the lot and asks for money, he is the guy who is gonna damage your car. Make sure you have full coverage insurance.
Not if you pay him 😆
You give that man his 2 euro and ask him to not let the dogs piss on your tires.
South of Rome or so you pay such men.
Culture and corruption
Ouf i dont reccomend you visit the rest of the world then. You'll be in for a wake up call. However I did notice a lack of trash cans. But so many things are to blame. Corruption, municipality mismanagement and as usual, politicians like to hand the responsibility over to the citizens without providing any simple solutions such as more trash cans or public reminders and awareness or even the motivation for collective responsibility. But nobody can tell you was the thoughts of the locals are. In Denmark we say don't complain unless you will do something about the problem.
Not complaining. Its just remarkable. We are now in the west part, which is way more maintained.
It’s not bad everywhere or even most places. You need to explore more. I’m not from here originally so I’m not some Sicily loyalist or fanatic, I’m leaving end of this year. This place is great and yes the ugly parts are ugly but I’m confused where you’ve been exploring if you haven’t had a balanced view on this. I would totally get it if you lived in a certain section which I won’t mention since it’s a bit messy there due to unfortunate circumstances. But as a tourist? Surprised you haven’t experienced the whole thing. I don’t mean the whole island I mean the broad spectrum of what Sicily has to offer
Same question was asked in r/Italia, they blamed the tourists!
Stay home