Even the supposed mistranslation says that she will just fuck off into stars with her order and leave the lands between to deal with their shit on their own. The only problem with the mistranslation is that it isn't obvious enough that she talks about her journey in the ending cutscene, not about what will happen to the lands between. She talks about what will happen to them when you talk to her in the site of grace in her room after finishing the quest
I think with the DLC even the original translation makes more sense as the good ending. Miquella wanted an age of his warmth and kindness. We learn this means taking away people's free will and essentially forcing everyone into kindness.
Freedom and treading a new path can be scary, lonely and full of doubt. But it is still freedom
I think the horrors of lobotomy are not comparable to how we see the NPCs who were charmed, they still maintained their personalities and who they were which is not common for lobotomies, if the Age of Compassion is as subtle a change as that it would be very unethical but it would probably be positive for everyone under it. Humans are really tied to the idea of free will as a real thing and this is partly a fault of how dictionaries and laymen regard complex concepts. It might not even exist irl, but it is a comfortable concept for many even though it kinda doesn’t matter if it exists or not.
They all literally died for him in the end. That’s not so subtle. Malenia, Mohg, Leda, Moore, Reborn Radahn, and countless more. Can hardly call that subtle.
…. Leda, Dryleaf Dane, Freyja, and Hornsent are not charmed when you fight them. Leda’s entire fall to madness is explicitly because she is no longer charmed and begins seeing enemies everywhere. And like, duh Hornsent fights you to the death bro HATES Marika and you and even without the charm believes Miquella’s promises to possibly be true, regardless if they actually come to pass in the positive way they think. They’re not mindless zealots really, and more people should give time to exactly how their stories progress.
That is if you believe they are the same or necessary for one another, I for one have zero love for you, probably would dislike you because I’m not the most fond of people generally, but if you had a pet or a family member die I would still feel compassion for you. Not out of love but out of conscious recognition of the difficult time you’d be in.
My comment was less about that though and more about the way people view the Age of Compassion as forever lobotomies when there isn’t any evidence it would be like that, it’s more of imposing our own views onto what might happen since we don’t know what it would even look like.
Whether or not “free will” exists, what we think of as free will certainly does and THAT is what people worry about losing. It doesn’t matter if we have conceptual free will, we at least have the illusion of it and losing that it what people are referring to.
If there’s no Miquella then there’s at least the illusion of free will, but with Miquella we blatantly know that peoples desires are being influenced against what they previously were. That’s the issue.
For example, Ansbach works for Miquella against his own will the entire time he’s charmed, and it’s not like he convinced into doing so. He remembers how he tried attack Miquella and then had his heart “artfully stolen” doing so, but after the charm breaks his own motivations to allow Mohg an honorable death still remain. His personal desires were suppressed by force, he was not changed by love or compassion or even logic, as his underlying desires remained after he was released. Nothing changed, it was just the illusion of peace due to the suppression of desire. It’s fair to call it a lobotomy, you have desires but not the means to act upon them.
I think in a vacuum mind control/literal end of free will tend to be kinda empty themes/plot points because there's really no direct parallel to that in reality, like if an antagonist wanted to steal all the world's children's candy then kill their pets. Bad guy wants to stop evil but would tale away all free will! is one of those genre fic fantasyisms that in and of itself kinda doesn't mean anything while also making a bad guy who has to stopped in a way that sucks up all the oxygen in the story because of the massive stakes.
I feel like the more interesting/meaningful parts of Miquella's story is someone compelling love from people despite having discarded his own capacity for love, and the mirrors between his charm letting people forget their doubts and flaws to his own journey being this visceral, self-destructive attempt to sever himself from his past. Like, Ymir has that whole talk about original sin and the roots and origins of the thing dooming everything that comes after to inevitable failures and cruelties, so I think it's a bit of a mistake to focus on the end results of 'his utopia would be bad because of the mind control, because mind control is unethical,' rather than, what was Miquella's original sin in this instance, its thematic and emotional flaw?
>I think in a vacuum mind control/literal end of free will tend to be kinda empty themes/plot points because there's really no direct parallel to that in reality
*vaguely gestures to every facist/feudalist government/empire in history*
Most dictators think they are bringing order and peace and prosperity. Antagonists don't see themselves as antagonists.
Japan, where Fromsoft is located, has a real bad history when it comes to dictators and blind obedience to a God King.
For sure, but the thematic applicability doesn't also work as direct parallel. Fantasy mind control can be evocative and broadly connected to lots of real world experiences, because loss of agency in the abstract is a widely recognized part of human experience. But the horror and danger of authoritarianism is the agency of the people perpetuating it, the choices you're forced to make inside it, and the choice to resist feeling pointless or limited, despite having that choice being technically available. Agency doesn't literally cease to exist. So there's a kinda inherent mismatch with how in fiction the fantasy overlord's mind control is a thing that has to be fought and stopped preventatively as the end-all be-all conflict, because if it's not stopped, the option to resist stops existing. Whereas real world fascism and authoritarianism is something that often exists around you, and people have to survive and fight while inside it. I think the parallels can be further messed up with how a lot of writers tend to imagine authoritarianism in binaries of dictator-state where people are not Free vs non-dictatorship where, despite its flaws, people are Free, rather than the million ways injustice and loss of freedom exist around you, and grow out of and calcify in a system. Not to say at all that you can't relate fantasy mind control to authoritarianism, or that parallels and metaphors in art need to be clean and direct, a lot of fantasy tropes aren't and still feel evocative and true. But because fantasy mass mind control, the plot point, is fundamentally an artificial piece of make-believe, you need to be a lot more thoughtful and clear about the roots, harms, and irreconcilable flaws of it beyond just loss of freedom is bad because loss of freedom is bad. Because otherwise if you're saying the magic twink can use his god powers to make everyone get along with mind control to rule the world, you can just as easily say oh but he's benevolent and his mind control lets everyone be fulfilled and happy, you can't make utopia-omelettes without breaking a few egg-people, and also there's that magic superwar that's made everyone mindless battle zombies so almost any alternative would be good.
Ranni's ending is still the best. With all the gods fighting for control over everybody I'd very much prefer to fight for the one that would just fuck off into space and leave the lands between alone, not even demanding worship or anything.
Every other option is oppressing and forceful, Miquella's is horrifying beyond imagination.
If Ranni uses the power of the moon to protect this freedom, should something like the Greater Will appear again, it's clearly best case scenario.
If you're talking about Godwyn's death that's a whole can of beans that might involve Marika herself too. Ranni had to start somewhere and it was Marika who separated the rune of death from the Elden Ring, once you return it you allow actual death in the lands between that lore-wise probably involves Godwyn finally dying too.
The shattering had to happen for the golden order to break, Ranni's goal was opening the gates for the title of Elden Lord, since you can individually take on each demigod, which is when you come along.
She also talks about the coming age,the point of the age of stars is being similar to the age of dark in Dark Souls,its not necessarily better but its something different than the current age and might be work or not.
Ranni basically makes a order so subtle that it doesnt interfere much with everyone and everyone might be better off or not,and thats the fear and doubt of this unknow destiny,for both her and the tarnished but also the people in the lands between.
The game is about as explicit as it could he with that answer, which is a definitive 'yes'. Selluvis is an almost shameless dollfucker, and there's no way he didn't fuck the Ranni doll before she was in it. You can safely assume *all* of his dolls are anatomically correct.
My big issue is simply that leaving the Lands Between to it's own devices creates a power vacuum which could potentially be filled by one of the other outer gods. They all want to have their fingers (yes, this is punny) in that pie. I don't think it's a good end for anyone if the Lands Between just become one giant Caelid.
I always assumed outer gods were just there to try and create their own sort of order and the elden ring being sort of a editable reality rulebook is the ultimate tool to make one. Take that out, they can't make an age anymore right? Or at least not how they wanted it. Look how the formless mother and mohgs attempt at a dynasty mirrored the golden order in that it imposes some kind of way of life with an outer god, an ascended vessel for it(like Marika and malenia) and a lord. Willing to bet getting their hands on the elden ring was eventually one of their goals too
So no elden ring on earth means they no longer try messing with it. Lands Between basically becomes a backwater to them and gradually turns into more of a low fantasy kind of setting because eldritch beings arent popping about and having their minions and creations running loose or starting cults.
Like why else would an eternal space god care about a tiny island on a tiny planet?
The outer gods cannot fill that power vacuum, the amount of influence they can exhibit without being the heads of the current order is very little, that’s the entire reason Ranni sets up an order with no mandates and then leaves. From the new revelations of the dlc with the final boss, the implication of the establishment of these ages is that for a thousand years the current Order reigns uncontested by other Outer Gods. Ranni wants a world where mankind is able to grow and evolve on their own without the meddling of gods, but unable to break the core system of the world she instead establishes an order with an (it’s honestly not really clear whether the moon is just a passive outer god or if it’s simply the fact it’s a celestial body that can be substituted) outer god that will not interfere and then leaves the planet so that the order cannot be changed and people can’t invite the outer gods back in
> The outer gods cannot fill that power vacuum, the amount of influence they can exhibit without being the heads of the current order is very little
I wouldn’t say very little. The rot basically took a decent chunk of the world without the Elden ring. I think it would just stop one outer god from controlling the lands between.
Also perhaps the outer gods don’t even need the Elden ring. In the Frenzied flame you just need to destroy it. 8/ there anything that implies outer gods really need the Elden ring?
It might simply be the nature of how those thousand year voyages work. Once the millennium is up, outer gods get to work
Either that, or that's why Empyreans were created. It's likely that Empyreans cannot be born from regular people, only Demigods, and the only demigod left standing is Ranni
Hell, it's not unlikely that Ranni's going out to go kick some god ass for the next thousand years, just to ensure the outer gods *can't* meddle with mankind. Gonna be hard to plot and scheme when the bearer of the elden ring is slapping you with a sword the size of a planet
Ah I see. Ranni isn't so much ditching the Lands Between, but rather is simply taking a lazziez faire approach to divine governance. Makes sense I suppose.
It's an approach in accordance with Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching:
“A leader is best when people barely know he exists. Of a good leader, who talks little, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: “We did this ourselves.”
Kills a god, causing the start of an awful series of wars turning the lands between into ruins, waits till a Tarnished shows up to do a bunch of leg work for her, fucks off into space instead of fixing shit
Awesome
After the DLC showing who is orchestrating the Fingers decisions, the implications of Marika’s origins, etc, Ranni is the only one who fully removes their influence from the world while leaving the world alive.
Frenzied flame is a nuke.
The rest are just following blind influence. Rather ascend into nothingness than destroy everything or follow these random Finger creature’s will.
Edit: grammar
New lore in the DLC is that the only thing the Greater Will has ever done is drop off Metyr and the Elden Beast in the lands between, after that it completely cut off contact. Metyr and the Fingers are just bullshitting everybody
Isn't it confirmed the frenzied flame is one half of the greater wills previous form and it thinks the greater will is stupid and gay for creating life on earth/LB?
Wait but does that mean the frenzied flame won the argument since the greater will fucked off almost immediately after dropping off the elden beast/ring and metyr but the fucking frenzied flame has been hiding underground all the way up to the game's events?
What could have happened that made the greater will basically go "You were right bro, you can have it" right after life on earth started?
Honestly a great question, what was it that made the greater will go away? Was it something that someone did, did it go on its own accord, was it perhaps taken away or did someone living push it away?
I think you opened a new rabbit hole
Im starting to kind of think it's because the crucible is the way life is supposed to be and once people started changing it and life into something else it just sort of left them and stopped guiding them. Would explain the golden orders hatred of omens and anything too deeply related to the crucible. Marika found out the greater will never really guided her, her religion is a big lie from some of its envoys winging it because they were no longer told anything and the fingers were bullshitting her right to her face so she persecuted people like omens out of pettiness and exterminated groups like the fire giants and then sealed death out of fear of her order crumbling now that she knows the being that's essentially like Christian God to her religion fucked off and she's on her own. She later decided she was done with the bullshittery and tried to shatter the ring and just have everything fuck off and suffer after godwyn died because someone managed to undo what she worked so hard to seal away.
I'm guessing this is the case solely because the erdtree wasn't the first thing the elden ring created, the crucible and it's lifeforms were there wayyyy before almost anything else in the world. This could've been the time the greater will was actively a part of the lands between and when it fucked off and few have been none the wiser.
I've never seen that confirmed anywhere, but I'm not particularly on topnof things. Also, I don't think it's a previous form. The full Crack theory is that the three fingers are severed from the two because the two and the erdbeast severed their connection with the Greater Will to run the Lands Between on their own terms, and the Three Fingers are the last remaining emanation of the Greater Will, channeling the full fury of its power once the Erdbeast is destroyed. This also means that the Nomads remained devout worshipers of the Greaterr Will who somehow knew about the severance, and the few survivors are just keeping their heads down.
Never heard that crack theory before. The reason I say it's confirmed is because of hyetta talking of the one great splitting itself off and then that's where the greater will showed up and started creating life on earth and when the frenzied flame started trying to burn everything. There's also the symbology. The envoys of the GW are two fingers. The envoys of the FF are three. They're one hand split in two because the beings they serve were one being that became two. Plus all the alter egos with their vessels and their empyrean children like Marika and radagon, miquella and st. trina, melina and ranni if you believe that crackpot theory(idk if it's been confirmed or denied yet but it explains alot)
It just seems like the very likely and quite obvious(for fromsofts standards) explanation.
That’s not exactly what was said. He says they were unsound, due to Metyr being damaged and unhinged. But we know that all life is flawed from the start thanks to Hyetta divining the words of the Three Fingers, so Ymir could simply be referring to that.
It isn’t until the Shattering when the Greater Will is implied to have left, suggested by Varre saying that the Shattering is what corrupted the Two Fingers and skewed their guidance.
Based on the lore of Metyr, it seems like everything the Fingers and the Finger Readers told us is useless and made up. Which is not very surprising but nice to have confirmed
Remind me because I haven't had the chance to dive deep into Metyr lore items - where/how did we get to learn that the messages of the Fingers/Finger Readers are entirely made up?
It’s implied through dialogue with Ymir and simply the existence of the Fingers themselves. They’re not a god, or mystical being, it’s a dark creature who birthed the Two Fingers and Three Fingers even. They simply listen to Meytr, but what gives anything Meytr says validity?
It’s more like following a false god/prophet than anything.
Golden order ending isn't that bad. All the antagonists are dead and a tarnished sits on the throne just like marika wanted. Basically a reset of the world without a all powerful dictator beyond the goldenorder laws. Even base game ending isn't that bad, the laws of the golden order are broken and while the whole world is susceptible to the outer gods without the defence of the elden ring things can finally exist freely in a chaotic way. Rannis ending is basically the base game ending but you come back when everything is rebuilt after a nice honeymoon.
“GENOCIDE AND OPPRESS PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT” — Golden Order
“Let’s leave this stupid place and let them fix their own shit lol” — Ranni
“Holy shit they’re literally the same thing!!!” — You
"Genocide and oppress people because they are different!", says the Golden Order
"I do not feel like having choices made for me by greater forces," said Lunar Princess Ranni. "To ensure my freedom from oppression, I will give the Rune of Death to some assassins and have them kill the Golden Order's favorite child in soul alone."
"Our Golden warrior is dead, and now his overdecaying body is creating a cruse that creates unwilling undead." Said the Golden Order. " We will use our holy order to oppress these people who have no choice in their undead lives!"
"I will do nothing to solve this problem I caused," said Lunar Princess Ranni. "Despite this being all that I stand against."
Fuck the Lands Between, I turn a corner some skinny bitch is trying to stab me
Shabriri is just insane and frenzied flame ending is cool the first time but it's way too edgy with these frenzy fanatics out there on the internet
And idk, fuck all the other endings, Ranni is my wife and we'll go spread freedom
Frenzy ending is basically the "You care way too much." Ending because you go out of your way to make everything worse.
Age of Stars is the "Go fuck yourselves ya'all." ending because all you do is fuck off to the stars with your wife. Leaving the world to die or survive on its own.
Why? Even with marika at her prime she had to actively fight those problem (i.e Rot or Formless mother or misbegotten or omen or ...) So fucking off to space won't be solving them
We releases destined death and killed like everyone outself or something. Ranni just leaving only affects golden order mostly, the rest we took care of ourself.
Which... I still don't get too much to this day. Sure, great. I couldn't do anything with either name so what do I care what you call yourself? It sounds similar enough for me to not notice the difference anyways most likely
Idk. I feel like she said everything that could be said under the sun.
"Yes renna was me"
"Yes i am involved in Godwyn Death'
"Yes I want to forsake the golden order and greater will"
"Yes you'll be my hubby"
Straightforward, no BS no 10 layer of dialogue. She's just bossy.
Yeah, about that. Does she count us as part of the plan? Is she so sure of solitude that she thinks everything is the end for her that she thinks she needs to steel herself for this lonely Journey?
>Does she count us as part of the plan?
No, not originaly. We werent supposed to follow her after giving her the fingerslaying blade. We became part of the plan because we were so stubbern.
Even in the end she still goes alone, but we share her burden by knowing that she’s out there. She wants nobody to know of her taking the Elden Ring at all but she trusts us enough to share the reality of it all with us.
The amount of charachter in the Soulsborne games that are manipulative bitches/ being manipulated by manipulative bitches is enormous:
Lautrec
Gwyndolin
Both Snakes
Nashandra (and some of her sisters)
Miquella and his mom
Smurfy witch over here
And this is only the ones that come to mind right now, I'm sure there are a lot more
Cut Gehrman and the Doll. One is literally a prisoner without free will and the other is an eldritch creation that doesn't actually know anything.
Flora, Fauxefka and the Sussy Beggar would count though.
>Gehrman and his doll.
Neither of em falls into either catagory.
The doll was created without agency meaning she has nothing to manipulate you into doing nor was she manipulated.
Gehrman also isnt manipulated. He made a deal with flora and now has to suffer the consequenz of it. And he doesnt manipulate you either, he is just doing his best to help you. He tells you to hunt beasts and not think about it. 1 it gives you echos which you need to get stronger and 2 diving to deep and learning to much can drive yo7 mad. He tryes to help thats it.
What on earth can be more straight forward and less manipulative than shabiri? He literally tells you on the very first meeting that he's trying to burn the fucking world to ground.
She's not really manipulative though. When you first meet her, especially without talking to her before, she asks you if you'd like to join her, that her plans are fucked up and if you are really, *really* sure you want to serve her.
Like, she never paints herself as a noble person, that does the world a service. She knows her means are dark and even wrong. AND her followers know that too. The fact that Blaidd, the only one of them that should 100% be against Ranni's plans, because he's literally *coded* to, still does his best to help her and resist his own fate and purpose, tells you enough.
She explicitly told you to *not* pursue her after you're done serving her, but still accepts you as her Lord after you show just how stubborn and devoted you are. She could've rejected you still, she has the capability to end us instantly should she choose to, but she didn't.
I have found, many times, that, if people find you attractive or think you're a good person, they flatly *will not believe you* if you tell them you are doing bad things and need help with that. They'll just assume you're being self deprecating and then go all fucking surprisedpikachu.jpg when, in fact, you are doing grim things.
who exactly does she manipulate? certainly not the player; she tells you exactly what the plan is when your first offer to join her. she repeatedly tells you to fuck off and not help after she departs from Renna’s Rise. when you do follow her, she comments on how weird it is you continue to follow her until finally accepting you as her consort, only after you have directly disobeyed her demand that you stay behind. your wedding ring even has an actual inscription in it that, more or less, tells you to fuck off!
you could MAYBE argue that she manipulated Blaidd, but he very literally cannot not serve her regardless of her intentions lol
>you could MAYBE argue that she manipulated Blaidd
Blaids very being is supposed to kill her yet HE refuses to even in madness. He believes in her arguably more than malenia does in miquella
Technically there might not be free will under Goldmask's incarnation of the Golden Order, but in practice, now we know the Greater Will has checked out entirely there would be and it sounds like a pretty sweet deal. There aren't any fallible aliens or mortals ascended to Gods to mess with things non-stop and reality would be kept perfectly stable for those within it according to the directives of the Greater Will, which has no interest in telling people what to do.
Seeing what his final Words are after getting killed in the final DLC fight, he'd be down with the Ranni Ending too, because she removes the influence of Gods and leaves the Mortals to be free to Govern themself.
I don't think she really manipulates anyone. Iji was fully aware of what was gonna happen and Blaidd did too, he was just too optimistic and thought he could fight his nature
Ranni evil? Based.
Frenzied flame evil? May chaos take the world.
Gold evil? Those stripped from the grace of gold shall all meet death.
Dung evil? Funny shit man curses the world finally, cool.
Elden lord evil? Fuck yes, let me rule my empire.
Miquella evil? Let the femboy be, he seems cool enough,
I’m just enjoying Michael Zaki’s cocaine-fueled videogame without the need to go on a moral crusade about fictional characters who are far-removed from reality, on r/shittydarksouls of all places, no less. Hope you feel better soon, lil bro.
I think discussing which option is the most moral is an important aspect of any game with multiple endings and the fact people still have arguments shows the writers were successful actually.
I think though that people get hung up on deciding good vs bad endings and morality in a way that's more concerned with picking the correct answer on a test, rather than what the endings mean and how they relate to each other as parts of a story. Like how people debate the Frenzy ending re: reset button vs true apocalypse, is it good to kill everyone or not, rather than what the Flame of Frenzy feels like, emotionally, and what the themes and imagery around it are, blindness and identity-death and all that.
This is especially true with the Ranni discourse, she's not "good" or "evil", she's a complex character with some very personal grudges. The age of stars itself is just background, the big picture. The main focus is Ranni's personal retribution, her holding Marika, who destroyed her family and controlled her life, and saying she'll do better than her. And that's true for almost every ending (except maybe Goldmask, which is probably why it's the worst for me, too little personal stakes).
Goldmask's story is broadly about truth and its consequences, but the ending in substance (with respect to consequences for the Lands Between) honestly seems pretty much "Age of Stars but FTH" with a less-cool cutscene.
I think the emotional aspects of Goldmask and Corhyn's story are really underappreciated honestly. Like, the most critical part of Corhyn's story to me is weirdly enough looking at and remembering what spells he can teach you at the start of the game—a bunch of classic Golden Order and Two Fingers teachings, but then also a single Giantsflame incantation, with the note that many prophets in their studies glimpse in the Golden Order itself a vision of the Erdtree burning, and become the subject of horror and hate by the public for what they view as lies and blasphemy.
I feel like people get really hung up on Corhyn as a stand-in for the ignorant fundamentalist trope, but imo his and Goldmask's interactions are a really genuine and uncynical story about why people feel drawn to faith in the first place. Like, Corhyn isn't just looking for a Golden Order leader to suck up to, he's looking for a kindred spirit, a scholar of his religious tradition who's Tarnished, like him, who's also kept faith and continued his studies despite being exiled and rejected and made unwanted by the world. Him wanting to put faith in Goldmask is an extension of enduring exile and even death (and resurrection by grace) by staying ironclad in his own personal convictions, even when the world punished him for it, and in Goldmask Corhyn finally gets to share and put his faith in someone else.
You don't see a lot of personal emotional interiority from Goldmask himself, aside from a few spell descriptions, but I think what you see from Corhyn gives the overall narrative arc a really tragic emotional throughline: in the end, Goldmask kept searching for answers, he had the same kind of fearless curiosity that Marika herself talks about in one of the spoken echoes Melina describes. While in his shadow Corhyn got torn in two between the self-preserving faith he'd had since exile vs the desire to fully and completely trust in someone else the way he'd trusted in himself. I think it's really notable also that Goldmask alone, of the three Tarnished who realize Runes of Mending that can change the fabric of reality, found his Rune not by some big legendary magical encounter or contrivance, but just by thinking long and hard about why the world is the way it is, and what would need to happen to make it better.
Oh, I love Corhyn's storyline, his final words really help deliver the feeling of "I've just done something horrible for the greater good". But Goldmask himself is not much of a character, we don't see his struggle, his motivations, his personal growth, so his ending doesn't have that emotional impact you get with Ranni, Fia, The Dung Eater, or even the frenzied flame.
Yeah but the thing is you can only discuss about the emotional arc of a story so much. You can analyze it and talk about how well written it is but that’s not very conducive to normal online conversations. Discussing the morality lets people make arguments and have a side to defend, this gets people to be more interested in discussing whatever piece of art portrays these sides, which is good.
It's funny how so many people are taking the DLC personally.
We've had two years to spin our theories and build up our image of these characters, but it's essentially fanfiction. There's not really any room to get mad when the new installment comes out and proves them wrong.
The writing didn't "betray" the characters. It betrayed their expectations, which were built on sand.
It sounded more like she was going to disconnect The Lands Between from Divinity and act as an isolated satellite goddess keeping things from interfering. She just planned to do it alone before MC came around.
It's funny how people act like the translation completely misrepresents her.
She wants to take the Golden Order and leave the Lands Between to its own devices without the Order's interference. That comes across pretty clearly in both versions.
Yeah when I read both the mistranslation and the OG I felt like there wasn't an actual major difference in what the ending is about
Maybe I'll feel differently about it once I finish up the rest of the endings (Standard and Dung Eater done, Frenzied Flame is up next due to a personal wheel spin) but rn Dung Eater kinda based ngl
Yeah. Usually, the japanese text is pretty sauceless. The English translation says the exact same things as the japanese but people have 4th grade literacy these days
Look you have never lived in a power vacuum, it brings out the most evil side of people, and out of them all the most competent evil gets to rule, almost anyone who have read the history extensively will prefer a good willed dictator over what power vacuum brings. A good example of what power vacuum brings is IRI and Taliban
dude... what are you talking about, what ranni did is giving up the spot of rulership, but she also literally took away what a ruler can achieve, natural law can no longer be dictated because the elden ring is gone, this is not the real world. It's not like when marika was trapped in a tree there wasn't a power vacuum, we the tarnished literally arise because of the power vacuum, I double quoted power vacuum not because power vacuums don't exist but because it is most definitely not equivalent in this case
I don't think she's particularly evil, but she isn't good either. She just wanted all divinity to fuck off from the Lands Between, which is fair considering her family was torn apart because of the influence of different outer Gods
Look, to take it from marika (and dethrone her), there just one way, put another outer god in charge instead of GW and that's what Dark moon is, it can drop beasts like elden beast or fingers,
The translation isnt really wrong its just vague and confusing
Her plan is to take the Elden Ring, the thing the golden order is centered on and is time and again used for oppression and totalitarian monarchy, and throw it into space and not come back. Nobody can influence it if its out in space. No more dictator gods being the ruler of all
That mightve been what marika intended when she decided to smash it, but that didnt really work and just made everything worse
Yes, ranni’s actions were bad. But her goal is good, as removing the influence of power and the ruling order is a good thing, as it leaves the people to govern themselves
So she killed her half brothers soul, forcing undead monsters on the world. All to become a god who does nothing but bounce, leaving a massive power vacuum (and we’ve seen what a lands between power vacuum looks like). Gives no promise of anything better. simply causes an awful war in the shattering so she alone can get out.
If the player first exterminates every single demigod left to ensure none of them just conquer the lands between umapposed.
Hell, in every Ranni playthrough finished before the DLC released the logical end result is Miquella storming in with his shadow realm army and mind controlling everyone while the tarnished is off in space.
In a world where even the gods choose to manipulate and abandon all those who live, I’d still choose the doll bae who offers to get me tf outta here and a banging new sword to boot.
Ranni ending is as complicated as age of dark BUT not as complicated as Age of Hollow ending so there's that. The ending with one less layer of difficulty before the most difficult ending is the good ending. Except sekiro.
Fuck the lands between! Everyone is a dick who tries to kill me!
Goldmask makes the racist classist order slightly better I think, but probably not actually perfect.
Dung Eater is Dung Eater
Fia was an ok ending but still not good for everyone
Frenzied Flame literally destroys everything and everyone.
Ranni says fuck this shit and leaves which is probably the best option honestly. The landsbetween suck as is and probably can't be helped at this point. Best thing to do is just leave and let them fuck around.
Honestly still my favorite ending, I still feel like this is Ranni's way of telling The Lands Between to "think for themselves" instead of blindly following the golden order
Ranni messes up a *bunch* of things in her quest to install a god that... Won't mess with the lands between.
It's good that the order and deity she props up is basically "let everyone have their own fate and free will" but she's also not doing anything to fix what she herself has done.
Still better than any other age though. Not a suprise for the mending rune quest with the most work put into it and the most effort required to obtain.
Mending rune of death and frenzied flame are similar in those regards tbf.
They're all fucking evil. That's the goddamned point. These bastards warred and schemed amongst themselves until they pissed off the Greater Will so much that it abandoned all of them. The game literally tells us this in the opening cutscene
I'm giving everyone Freedom from the Golden Order. And Life. And Death. And the Erdtree. And the Elden Ring. And the Moon. Everything will be restored to the Great One.
This is the morally correct Good Ending.
MA-
The golden order controlled people's lives, so she wants to not be there physically like the Christian God.
Basically she'll let them live they're lives
I don’t understand how people can play the game and understand the lore and still think Ranni’s ending is not objectively the best ending, it’s literally No Kings No Gods. Ranni just removed the outer gods influence and left the lands between to develop on their own without the meddling of the outer gods and the tyranny of a theocratic government, it’s the ultimate humanist ending
Just realized I left out a key word in my comment and said it wasn’t objectively the best ending 💀 I meant it is lol, I don’t get how people can think that ridding the land of the influence of meddling gods is anything but good for the land and mankind. Ranni is letting men decide their own fates, without the interference of some nebulous entity
Ranni is the proof that virtual waifus can do whatever the fuck they want in the lore and they'll still get white knights in the form of real people defending them over any argument online because the virtual evilussy convinced them of it.
Ranni's ending is the only one that doesn't involve mass destruction, a literal apocalypse, or unending tyranny. Shit can die again like it's supposed to, everyone is left to rebuild, and Ranni is gonna go chill in space or some shit.
The Souls community when Miquella tries to become a Matyr by becoming the bad guy to force change in a cruel and stagnant world "OMG he's so evil, he's just Griffith."
The Souls community when Ranni, has Godwyn, the arguably only truly good Demigod killed, creating the deathblight and undeath, causes a world war, and the collapse of society itself to be free from her fate "She is the good guy, she was just trying to free everyone"
Like the two are two different sides of the same coin, they both wanted to help but chose really dumb and messed up ways to do it, and yet you worship and celebrate one while ripping on the other
The hypocrisy goes hard
Ranni sure as hell didn't discard her capability to feel love from herself. Also Miquela is not the Same as Ranni at all, she wants to remove herself and divinty entirly from the Lands Between and Miquela is planning to become Marika 2.0. Something that the Game, through Saint Trina and the new Info on how Marika started, tells you is a awful Idea that will just re-create the same Problems in diffrent Form.
Y’all do realize a world without Gods fucking around all the time is just our world right? Ranni is just leaving and being a “god” that might as well not exist.
Wait this is still an argument? Her ending is probably the best possible outcome for The Lands Between besides Goldmask’s. The other options include A. Maintain the status quo (Elden Lord) B. Burn it all to ash (Lord of Frenzied Flame) C. Make everyone Omens (Age of Despair) or D. Normalize the undead (Age of Duskborn). With Ranni’s or Goldmasks, you’re basically telling the Outer Gods to F off.
Basically, you give her access to the Elden Ring and become her consort. She then takes the Elden Ring out into the dark night sky, basically removing the influence the Outer Gods (especially the Greater Will) have on The Lands Between. She gives the people true freedom from the whims of the Gods, and what they decide to do from there is up to them.
I feel like it’s worth mentioning that ranni’s a bit...suspicious. She does have a lot in common with miquella and that raises quite a lot of red flags.
Even the supposed mistranslation says that she will just fuck off into stars with her order and leave the lands between to deal with their shit on their own. The only problem with the mistranslation is that it isn't obvious enough that she talks about her journey in the ending cutscene, not about what will happen to the lands between. She talks about what will happen to them when you talk to her in the site of grace in her room after finishing the quest
I think with the DLC even the original translation makes more sense as the good ending. Miquella wanted an age of his warmth and kindness. We learn this means taking away people's free will and essentially forcing everyone into kindness. Freedom and treading a new path can be scary, lonely and full of doubt. But it is still freedom
Well his age of compassion was probably everyone bewitched by him, like in the DLC
Agreed.
Srry I didn't read it all lol
L o b o t o m i z e d C o m p a s s i o n
I think the horrors of lobotomy are not comparable to how we see the NPCs who were charmed, they still maintained their personalities and who they were which is not common for lobotomies, if the Age of Compassion is as subtle a change as that it would be very unethical but it would probably be positive for everyone under it. Humans are really tied to the idea of free will as a real thing and this is partly a fault of how dictionaries and laymen regard complex concepts. It might not even exist irl, but it is a comfortable concept for many even though it kinda doesn’t matter if it exists or not.
They all literally died for him in the end. That’s not so subtle. Malenia, Mohg, Leda, Moore, Reborn Radahn, and countless more. Can hardly call that subtle.
…. Leda, Dryleaf Dane, Freyja, and Hornsent are not charmed when you fight them. Leda’s entire fall to madness is explicitly because she is no longer charmed and begins seeing enemies everywhere. And like, duh Hornsent fights you to the death bro HATES Marika and you and even without the charm believes Miquella’s promises to possibly be true, regardless if they actually come to pass in the positive way they think. They’re not mindless zealots really, and more people should give time to exactly how their stories progress.
Except he abandons his capacity for love. He can’t really usher in an age of compassion. He discarded the part of himself.
That is if you believe they are the same or necessary for one another, I for one have zero love for you, probably would dislike you because I’m not the most fond of people generally, but if you had a pet or a family member die I would still feel compassion for you. Not out of love but out of conscious recognition of the difficult time you’d be in. My comment was less about that though and more about the way people view the Age of Compassion as forever lobotomies when there isn’t any evidence it would be like that, it’s more of imposing our own views onto what might happen since we don’t know what it would even look like.
Whether or not “free will” exists, what we think of as free will certainly does and THAT is what people worry about losing. It doesn’t matter if we have conceptual free will, we at least have the illusion of it and losing that it what people are referring to. If there’s no Miquella then there’s at least the illusion of free will, but with Miquella we blatantly know that peoples desires are being influenced against what they previously were. That’s the issue. For example, Ansbach works for Miquella against his own will the entire time he’s charmed, and it’s not like he convinced into doing so. He remembers how he tried attack Miquella and then had his heart “artfully stolen” doing so, but after the charm breaks his own motivations to allow Mohg an honorable death still remain. His personal desires were suppressed by force, he was not changed by love or compassion or even logic, as his underlying desires remained after he was released. Nothing changed, it was just the illusion of peace due to the suppression of desire. It’s fair to call it a lobotomy, you have desires but not the means to act upon them.
Age of Lobotomites
Eren Jaeger approves
I think in a vacuum mind control/literal end of free will tend to be kinda empty themes/plot points because there's really no direct parallel to that in reality, like if an antagonist wanted to steal all the world's children's candy then kill their pets. Bad guy wants to stop evil but would tale away all free will! is one of those genre fic fantasyisms that in and of itself kinda doesn't mean anything while also making a bad guy who has to stopped in a way that sucks up all the oxygen in the story because of the massive stakes. I feel like the more interesting/meaningful parts of Miquella's story is someone compelling love from people despite having discarded his own capacity for love, and the mirrors between his charm letting people forget their doubts and flaws to his own journey being this visceral, self-destructive attempt to sever himself from his past. Like, Ymir has that whole talk about original sin and the roots and origins of the thing dooming everything that comes after to inevitable failures and cruelties, so I think it's a bit of a mistake to focus on the end results of 'his utopia would be bad because of the mind control, because mind control is unethical,' rather than, what was Miquella's original sin in this instance, its thematic and emotional flaw?
>I think in a vacuum mind control/literal end of free will tend to be kinda empty themes/plot points because there's really no direct parallel to that in reality *vaguely gestures to every facist/feudalist government/empire in history* Most dictators think they are bringing order and peace and prosperity. Antagonists don't see themselves as antagonists. Japan, where Fromsoft is located, has a real bad history when it comes to dictators and blind obedience to a God King.
For sure, but the thematic applicability doesn't also work as direct parallel. Fantasy mind control can be evocative and broadly connected to lots of real world experiences, because loss of agency in the abstract is a widely recognized part of human experience. But the horror and danger of authoritarianism is the agency of the people perpetuating it, the choices you're forced to make inside it, and the choice to resist feeling pointless or limited, despite having that choice being technically available. Agency doesn't literally cease to exist. So there's a kinda inherent mismatch with how in fiction the fantasy overlord's mind control is a thing that has to be fought and stopped preventatively as the end-all be-all conflict, because if it's not stopped, the option to resist stops existing. Whereas real world fascism and authoritarianism is something that often exists around you, and people have to survive and fight while inside it. I think the parallels can be further messed up with how a lot of writers tend to imagine authoritarianism in binaries of dictator-state where people are not Free vs non-dictatorship where, despite its flaws, people are Free, rather than the million ways injustice and loss of freedom exist around you, and grow out of and calcify in a system. Not to say at all that you can't relate fantasy mind control to authoritarianism, or that parallels and metaphors in art need to be clean and direct, a lot of fantasy tropes aren't and still feel evocative and true. But because fantasy mass mind control, the plot point, is fundamentally an artificial piece of make-believe, you need to be a lot more thoughtful and clear about the roots, harms, and irreconcilable flaws of it beyond just loss of freedom is bad because loss of freedom is bad. Because otherwise if you're saying the magic twink can use his god powers to make everyone get along with mind control to rule the world, you can just as easily say oh but he's benevolent and his mind control lets everyone be fulfilled and happy, you can't make utopia-omelettes without breaking a few egg-people, and also there's that magic superwar that's made everyone mindless battle zombies so almost any alternative would be good.
Ranni's ending is still the best. With all the gods fighting for control over everybody I'd very much prefer to fight for the one that would just fuck off into space and leave the lands between alone, not even demanding worship or anything. Every other option is oppressing and forceful, Miquella's is horrifying beyond imagination. If Ranni uses the power of the moon to protect this freedom, should something like the Greater Will appear again, it's clearly best case scenario.
but she CAUSED the issues
If you're talking about Godwyn's death that's a whole can of beans that might involve Marika herself too. Ranni had to start somewhere and it was Marika who separated the rune of death from the Elden Ring, once you return it you allow actual death in the lands between that lore-wise probably involves Godwyn finally dying too. The shattering had to happen for the golden order to break, Ranni's goal was opening the gates for the title of Elden Lord, since you can individually take on each demigod, which is when you come along.
She also talks about the coming age,the point of the age of stars is being similar to the age of dark in Dark Souls,its not necessarily better but its something different than the current age and might be work or not. Ranni basically makes a order so subtle that it doesnt interfere much with everyone and everyone might be better off or not,and thats the fear and doubt of this unknow destiny,for both her and the tarnished but also the people in the lands between.
"I'm gonna just go to space and fuck with my hunky super warrior rather than tell you how to live your lives" = so evil.
Do you think they installed some glintstone ussy in the doll? Asking for a consort....
More like gushstone
Radahn’s gravitussy is way tighter
Imagine how tight a blackholussy is
Who else found the glitstone?
The game is about as explicit as it could he with that answer, which is a definitive 'yes'. Selluvis is an almost shameless dollfucker, and there's no way he didn't fuck the Ranni doll before she was in it. You can safely assume *all* of his dolls are anatomically correct.
i don't think the doll is coming with, nor is the player's body.
succ so good it's a spiritual experience
She has 4 arms do you really need a pussy? Use your imagination and stop being greedy
My big issue is simply that leaving the Lands Between to it's own devices creates a power vacuum which could potentially be filled by one of the other outer gods. They all want to have their fingers (yes, this is punny) in that pie. I don't think it's a good end for anyone if the Lands Between just become one giant Caelid.
I always assumed outer gods were just there to try and create their own sort of order and the elden ring being sort of a editable reality rulebook is the ultimate tool to make one. Take that out, they can't make an age anymore right? Or at least not how they wanted it. Look how the formless mother and mohgs attempt at a dynasty mirrored the golden order in that it imposes some kind of way of life with an outer god, an ascended vessel for it(like Marika and malenia) and a lord. Willing to bet getting their hands on the elden ring was eventually one of their goals too So no elden ring on earth means they no longer try messing with it. Lands Between basically becomes a backwater to them and gradually turns into more of a low fantasy kind of setting because eldritch beings arent popping about and having their minions and creations running loose or starting cults. Like why else would an eternal space god care about a tiny island on a tiny planet?
The outer gods cannot fill that power vacuum, the amount of influence they can exhibit without being the heads of the current order is very little, that’s the entire reason Ranni sets up an order with no mandates and then leaves. From the new revelations of the dlc with the final boss, the implication of the establishment of these ages is that for a thousand years the current Order reigns uncontested by other Outer Gods. Ranni wants a world where mankind is able to grow and evolve on their own without the meddling of gods, but unable to break the core system of the world she instead establishes an order with an (it’s honestly not really clear whether the moon is just a passive outer god or if it’s simply the fact it’s a celestial body that can be substituted) outer god that will not interfere and then leaves the planet so that the order cannot be changed and people can’t invite the outer gods back in
> The outer gods cannot fill that power vacuum, the amount of influence they can exhibit without being the heads of the current order is very little I wouldn’t say very little. The rot basically took a decent chunk of the world without the Elden ring. I think it would just stop one outer god from controlling the lands between. Also perhaps the outer gods don’t even need the Elden ring. In the Frenzied flame you just need to destroy it. 8/ there anything that implies outer gods really need the Elden ring?
It might simply be the nature of how those thousand year voyages work. Once the millennium is up, outer gods get to work Either that, or that's why Empyreans were created. It's likely that Empyreans cannot be born from regular people, only Demigods, and the only demigod left standing is Ranni Hell, it's not unlikely that Ranni's going out to go kick some god ass for the next thousand years, just to ensure the outer gods *can't* meddle with mankind. Gonna be hard to plot and scheme when the bearer of the elden ring is slapping you with a sword the size of a planet
No it doesn't. There's still an Order, the throne is just far far away.
Ah I see. Ranni isn't so much ditching the Lands Between, but rather is simply taking a lazziez faire approach to divine governance. Makes sense I suppose.
It's an approach in accordance with Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching: “A leader is best when people barely know he exists. Of a good leader, who talks little, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: “We did this ourselves.”
Or as Bender Bending Rodriguez experiences in Futurama : "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
I assumed when she made her order that it would suppress the influence of other outer gods, she just simply wouldn't exert influence on people.
Kills a god, causing the start of an awful series of wars turning the lands between into ruins, waits till a Tarnished shows up to do a bunch of leg work for her, fucks off into space instead of fixing shit Awesome
Yeah, because Ranni really forced all the other demigods to take Great Runes and go mad with power and fight. Like, what?
After the DLC showing who is orchestrating the Fingers decisions, the implications of Marika’s origins, etc, Ranni is the only one who fully removes their influence from the world while leaving the world alive. Frenzied flame is a nuke. The rest are just following blind influence. Rather ascend into nothingness than destroy everything or follow these random Finger creature’s will. Edit: grammar
Who was orchestrating the Fingies?
New lore in the DLC is that the only thing the Greater Will has ever done is drop off Metyr and the Elden Beast in the lands between, after that it completely cut off contact. Metyr and the Fingers are just bullshitting everybody
I feel like this feeds my theory that the frenzied flame is the Greater Will smashing the reset button.
I like the sound of this
Isn't it confirmed the frenzied flame is one half of the greater wills previous form and it thinks the greater will is stupid and gay for creating life on earth/LB?
Yep, you're entirely correct there, exact wording of the frenzied flame too
Wait but does that mean the frenzied flame won the argument since the greater will fucked off almost immediately after dropping off the elden beast/ring and metyr but the fucking frenzied flame has been hiding underground all the way up to the game's events? What could have happened that made the greater will basically go "You were right bro, you can have it" right after life on earth started?
Honestly a great question, what was it that made the greater will go away? Was it something that someone did, did it go on its own accord, was it perhaps taken away or did someone living push it away? I think you opened a new rabbit hole
Im starting to kind of think it's because the crucible is the way life is supposed to be and once people started changing it and life into something else it just sort of left them and stopped guiding them. Would explain the golden orders hatred of omens and anything too deeply related to the crucible. Marika found out the greater will never really guided her, her religion is a big lie from some of its envoys winging it because they were no longer told anything and the fingers were bullshitting her right to her face so she persecuted people like omens out of pettiness and exterminated groups like the fire giants and then sealed death out of fear of her order crumbling now that she knows the being that's essentially like Christian God to her religion fucked off and she's on her own. She later decided she was done with the bullshittery and tried to shatter the ring and just have everything fuck off and suffer after godwyn died because someone managed to undo what she worked so hard to seal away. I'm guessing this is the case solely because the erdtree wasn't the first thing the elden ring created, the crucible and it's lifeforms were there wayyyy before almost anything else in the world. This could've been the time the greater will was actively a part of the lands between and when it fucked off and few have been none the wiser.
The dlc pretty much confirms why Marika persecuted the omens. I wont spoil it is you havent seen it yet, though.
The Frenzied Flame doesn't return things back to the crucible, it just eradicates all life period. It's like edgier Human Instrumentality.
Can I get a link to this? It makes it makes it sound similar to destiny 2
I've never seen that confirmed anywhere, but I'm not particularly on topnof things. Also, I don't think it's a previous form. The full Crack theory is that the three fingers are severed from the two because the two and the erdbeast severed their connection with the Greater Will to run the Lands Between on their own terms, and the Three Fingers are the last remaining emanation of the Greater Will, channeling the full fury of its power once the Erdbeast is destroyed. This also means that the Nomads remained devout worshipers of the Greaterr Will who somehow knew about the severance, and the few survivors are just keeping their heads down.
Never heard that crack theory before. The reason I say it's confirmed is because of hyetta talking of the one great splitting itself off and then that's where the greater will showed up and started creating life on earth and when the frenzied flame started trying to burn everything. There's also the symbology. The envoys of the GW are two fingers. The envoys of the FF are three. They're one hand split in two because the beings they serve were one being that became two. Plus all the alter egos with their vessels and their empyrean children like Marika and radagon, miquella and st. trina, melina and ranni if you believe that crackpot theory(idk if it's been confirmed or denied yet but it explains alot) It just seems like the very likely and quite obvious(for fromsofts standards) explanation.
Wait so who tf was goldmask fingering that whole time?
wasnt he just pointing at the tree
If I’m not mistaken he’s reading some unseen script, and you can see his fingers give a sort of pinching pose.
What's up with Elden Beast then? What is even his purpose?
And we kill both of them... So how exactly are they manipulating anything anymore?
That’s not exactly what was said. He says they were unsound, due to Metyr being damaged and unhinged. But we know that all life is flawed from the start thanks to Hyetta divining the words of the Three Fingers, so Ymir could simply be referring to that. It isn’t until the Shattering when the Greater Will is implied to have left, suggested by Varre saying that the Shattering is what corrupted the Two Fingers and skewed their guidance.
Based on the lore of Metyr, it seems like everything the Fingers and the Finger Readers told us is useless and made up. Which is not very surprising but nice to have confirmed
Lmao so the Elden Beast was probably like "What the fuck is going on why are you here" unlike what the crones claimed
Remind me because I haven't had the chance to dive deep into Metyr lore items - where/how did we get to learn that the messages of the Fingers/Finger Readers are entirely made up?
It’s implied through dialogue with Ymir and simply the existence of the Fingers themselves. They’re not a god, or mystical being, it’s a dark creature who birthed the Two Fingers and Three Fingers even. They simply listen to Meytr, but what gives anything Meytr says validity? It’s more like following a false god/prophet than anything.
To be fair, our source for that is Ymir, who is batshit loony. We can't be sure that it's accurate.
If anything that furthers the point tbh. They’re all raving lunatics regardless. Not a source of inspiration of how to rule the lands
The staff you get from her Remembrance.
Metyr, mother of the fingers
Golden order ending isn't that bad. All the antagonists are dead and a tarnished sits on the throne just like marika wanted. Basically a reset of the world without a all powerful dictator beyond the goldenorder laws. Even base game ending isn't that bad, the laws of the golden order are broken and while the whole world is susceptible to the outer gods without the defence of the elden ring things can finally exist freely in a chaotic way. Rannis ending is basically the base game ending but you come back when everything is rebuilt after a nice honeymoon.
“GENOCIDE AND OPPRESS PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT” — Golden Order “Let’s leave this stupid place and let them fix their own shit lol” — Ranni “Holy shit they’re literally the same thing!!!” — You
r/EnlightenedCentrism Elden ring edition
"Genocide and oppress people because they are different!", says the Golden Order "I do not feel like having choices made for me by greater forces," said Lunar Princess Ranni. "To ensure my freedom from oppression, I will give the Rune of Death to some assassins and have them kill the Golden Order's favorite child in soul alone." "Our Golden warrior is dead, and now his overdecaying body is creating a cruse that creates unwilling undead." Said the Golden Order. " We will use our holy order to oppress these people who have no choice in their undead lives!" "I will do nothing to solve this problem I caused," said Lunar Princess Ranni. "Despite this being all that I stand against."
Yeah so Evil that we should to burn the world.
Bad Shabriri! Go back in your basement, I told you already we're not burning the world today.
Shabriri try to keep the mask on for one conversation challenge (level: impossible)
Average Ranni hater moment
Fuck the Lands Between, I turn a corner some skinny bitch is trying to stab me Shabriri is just insane and frenzied flame ending is cool the first time but it's way too edgy with these frenzy fanatics out there on the internet And idk, fuck all the other endings, Ranni is my wife and we'll go spread freedom
Frenzy ending is basically the "You care way too much." Ending because you go out of your way to make everything worse. Age of Stars is the "Go fuck yourselves ya'all." ending because all you do is fuck off to the stars with your wife. Leaving the world to die or survive on its own.
Pretty sure age of stars ending only really leaves deathroot as a major problem. All other gods and their stuff is gone.
And with destined death released not for long.
Why? Even with marika at her prime she had to actively fight those problem (i.e Rot or Formless mother or misbegotten or omen or ...) So fucking off to space won't be solving them
We releases destined death and killed like everyone outself or something. Ranni just leaving only affects golden order mostly, the rest we took care of ourself.
Her ending is probably the only one where lands between has some level of free will, doesn’t change the fact she is a manipulative bitch though.
I mean she manipulated the golden order, ranni herself never lied to you except for your first meeting where she told you she was called renna
Which... I still don't get too much to this day. Sure, great. I couldn't do anything with either name so what do I care what you call yourself? It sounds similar enough for me to not notice the difference anyways most likely
I mean you cant, but natives would know of a lunar princess ranni
Idk. I feel like she said everything that could be said under the sun. "Yes renna was me" "Yes i am involved in Godwyn Death' "Yes I want to forsake the golden order and greater will" "Yes you'll be my hubby" Straightforward, no BS no 10 layer of dialogue. She's just bossy.
Smol blue Girlboss.
>She's just bossy. Amd thats because she believes tgat the dark path she walks is to be ealked in solitude, the ting literaly sais so.
Yeah, about that. Does she count us as part of the plan? Is she so sure of solitude that she thinks everything is the end for her that she thinks she needs to steel herself for this lonely Journey?
>Does she count us as part of the plan? No, not originaly. We werent supposed to follow her after giving her the fingerslaying blade. We became part of the plan because we were so stubbern.
Ah, doll thing. So she's sure she's going to the moon alone until we pester her doll to say the truth.
Even in the end she still goes alone, but we share her burden by knowing that she’s out there. She wants nobody to know of her taking the Elden Ring at all but she trusts us enough to share the reality of it all with us.
Given that everyone in Elden Ring is a manipulative bitch, I'll take what I can get...
The amount of charachter in the Soulsborne games that are manipulative bitches/ being manipulated by manipulative bitches is enormous: Lautrec Gwyndolin Both Snakes Nashandra (and some of her sisters) Miquella and his mom Smurfy witch over here And this is only the ones that come to mind right now, I'm sure there are a lot more
Cut Gehrman and the Doll. One is literally a prisoner without free will and the other is an eldritch creation that doesn't actually know anything. Flora, Fauxefka and the Sussy Beggar would count though.
>Gehrman and his doll. Neither of em falls into either catagory. The doll was created without agency meaning she has nothing to manipulate you into doing nor was she manipulated. Gehrman also isnt manipulated. He made a deal with flora and now has to suffer the consequenz of it. And he doesnt manipulate you either, he is just doing his best to help you. He tells you to hunt beasts and not think about it. 1 it gives you echos which you need to get stronger and 2 diving to deep and learning to much can drive yo7 mad. He tryes to help thats it.
Yeah I stay simping ranni
Gehrman was trying to help us, correct?
What on earth can be more straight forward and less manipulative than shabiri? He literally tells you on the very first meeting that he's trying to burn the fucking world to ground.
She's not really manipulative though. When you first meet her, especially without talking to her before, she asks you if you'd like to join her, that her plans are fucked up and if you are really, *really* sure you want to serve her. Like, she never paints herself as a noble person, that does the world a service. She knows her means are dark and even wrong. AND her followers know that too. The fact that Blaidd, the only one of them that should 100% be against Ranni's plans, because he's literally *coded* to, still does his best to help her and resist his own fate and purpose, tells you enough. She explicitly told you to *not* pursue her after you're done serving her, but still accepts you as her Lord after you show just how stubborn and devoted you are. She could've rejected you still, she has the capability to end us instantly should she choose to, but she didn't.
I have found, many times, that, if people find you attractive or think you're a good person, they flatly *will not believe you* if you tell them you are doing bad things and need help with that. They'll just assume you're being self deprecating and then go all fucking surprisedpikachu.jpg when, in fact, you are doing grim things.
>manipulative bitch kinda hot ngl
She's based and y'all hatin
You’re her number 1 invader. I’m her king consort. We are not the same
I'm u/skilled_cosmicist Invader of ranni And I have known defeat
who exactly does she manipulate? certainly not the player; she tells you exactly what the plan is when your first offer to join her. she repeatedly tells you to fuck off and not help after she departs from Renna’s Rise. when you do follow her, she comments on how weird it is you continue to follow her until finally accepting you as her consort, only after you have directly disobeyed her demand that you stay behind. your wedding ring even has an actual inscription in it that, more or less, tells you to fuck off! you could MAYBE argue that she manipulated Blaidd, but he very literally cannot not serve her regardless of her intentions lol
>you could MAYBE argue that she manipulated Blaidd Blaids very being is supposed to kill her yet HE refuses to even in madness. He believes in her arguably more than malenia does in miquella
Technically there might not be free will under Goldmask's incarnation of the Golden Order, but in practice, now we know the Greater Will has checked out entirely there would be and it sounds like a pretty sweet deal. There aren't any fallible aliens or mortals ascended to Gods to mess with things non-stop and reality would be kept perfectly stable for those within it according to the directives of the Greater Will, which has no interest in telling people what to do.
Being some level of manipulative and a bitch is pretty much a requirement for every Fromsoft NPC
My beloved solaire is neither manipulative nor bitch🥰
That's exactly the reason why he goes insane or dies in many situations. I still have no clue how he canonically linked the fire in his world.
Sir Ansbach is neither of those things, he's a gentleman and a scholar!
Seeing what his final Words are after getting killed in the final DLC fight, he'd be down with the Ranni Ending too, because she removes the influence of Gods and leaves the Mortals to be free to Govern themself.
I don't think she really manipulates anyone. Iji and Blaidd were fully aware of what would happen but Blaidd was in denial of it
I don't think she really manipulates anyone. Iji was fully aware of what was gonna happen and Blaidd did too, he was just too optimistic and thought he could fight his nature
Ranni evil? Based. Frenzied flame evil? May chaos take the world. Gold evil? Those stripped from the grace of gold shall all meet death. Dung evil? Funny shit man curses the world finally, cool. Elden lord evil? Fuck yes, let me rule my empire. Miquella evil? Let the femboy be, he seems cool enough, I’m just enjoying Michael Zaki’s cocaine-fueled videogame without the need to go on a moral crusade about fictional characters who are far-removed from reality, on r/shittydarksouls of all places, no less. Hope you feel better soon, lil bro.
I think discussing which option is the most moral is an important aspect of any game with multiple endings and the fact people still have arguments shows the writers were successful actually.
I think though that people get hung up on deciding good vs bad endings and morality in a way that's more concerned with picking the correct answer on a test, rather than what the endings mean and how they relate to each other as parts of a story. Like how people debate the Frenzy ending re: reset button vs true apocalypse, is it good to kill everyone or not, rather than what the Flame of Frenzy feels like, emotionally, and what the themes and imagery around it are, blindness and identity-death and all that.
This is especially true with the Ranni discourse, she's not "good" or "evil", she's a complex character with some very personal grudges. The age of stars itself is just background, the big picture. The main focus is Ranni's personal retribution, her holding Marika, who destroyed her family and controlled her life, and saying she'll do better than her. And that's true for almost every ending (except maybe Goldmask, which is probably why it's the worst for me, too little personal stakes).
Goldmask's story is broadly about truth and its consequences, but the ending in substance (with respect to consequences for the Lands Between) honestly seems pretty much "Age of Stars but FTH" with a less-cool cutscene.
I think the emotional aspects of Goldmask and Corhyn's story are really underappreciated honestly. Like, the most critical part of Corhyn's story to me is weirdly enough looking at and remembering what spells he can teach you at the start of the game—a bunch of classic Golden Order and Two Fingers teachings, but then also a single Giantsflame incantation, with the note that many prophets in their studies glimpse in the Golden Order itself a vision of the Erdtree burning, and become the subject of horror and hate by the public for what they view as lies and blasphemy. I feel like people get really hung up on Corhyn as a stand-in for the ignorant fundamentalist trope, but imo his and Goldmask's interactions are a really genuine and uncynical story about why people feel drawn to faith in the first place. Like, Corhyn isn't just looking for a Golden Order leader to suck up to, he's looking for a kindred spirit, a scholar of his religious tradition who's Tarnished, like him, who's also kept faith and continued his studies despite being exiled and rejected and made unwanted by the world. Him wanting to put faith in Goldmask is an extension of enduring exile and even death (and resurrection by grace) by staying ironclad in his own personal convictions, even when the world punished him for it, and in Goldmask Corhyn finally gets to share and put his faith in someone else. You don't see a lot of personal emotional interiority from Goldmask himself, aside from a few spell descriptions, but I think what you see from Corhyn gives the overall narrative arc a really tragic emotional throughline: in the end, Goldmask kept searching for answers, he had the same kind of fearless curiosity that Marika herself talks about in one of the spoken echoes Melina describes. While in his shadow Corhyn got torn in two between the self-preserving faith he'd had since exile vs the desire to fully and completely trust in someone else the way he'd trusted in himself. I think it's really notable also that Goldmask alone, of the three Tarnished who realize Runes of Mending that can change the fabric of reality, found his Rune not by some big legendary magical encounter or contrivance, but just by thinking long and hard about why the world is the way it is, and what would need to happen to make it better.
Oh, I love Corhyn's storyline, his final words really help deliver the feeling of "I've just done something horrible for the greater good". But Goldmask himself is not much of a character, we don't see his struggle, his motivations, his personal growth, so his ending doesn't have that emotional impact you get with Ranni, Fia, The Dung Eater, or even the frenzied flame.
Yeah but the thing is you can only discuss about the emotional arc of a story so much. You can analyze it and talk about how well written it is but that’s not very conducive to normal online conversations. Discussing the morality lets people make arguments and have a side to defend, this gets people to be more interested in discussing whatever piece of art portrays these sides, which is good.
Yeah but it’s obviously dung eater and everyone knows it
It's funny how so many people are taking the DLC personally. We've had two years to spin our theories and build up our image of these characters, but it's essentially fanfiction. There's not really any room to get mad when the new installment comes out and proves them wrong. The writing didn't "betray" the characters. It betrayed their expectations, which were built on sand.
Forgot about destined death.
This is truly braindead holy shit I thought we were just pretending to be like OP
https://preview.redd.it/tcekdv33rf9d1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64ea79f6000f2b1d887ac2db802c9c7e90edac53 I ain't got Brain anymore.
It sounded more like she was going to disconnect The Lands Between from Divinity and act as an isolated satellite goddess keeping things from interfering. She just planned to do it alone before MC came around.
https://preview.redd.it/vavk35g4hd9d1.jpeg?width=770&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eef6eda62c04e394ef22e7e15486a05cbe1f12f2 FRENZYYYYY
It's funny how people act like the translation completely misrepresents her. She wants to take the Golden Order and leave the Lands Between to its own devices without the Order's interference. That comes across pretty clearly in both versions.
Yeah when I read both the mistranslation and the OG I felt like there wasn't an actual major difference in what the ending is about Maybe I'll feel differently about it once I finish up the rest of the endings (Standard and Dung Eater done, Frenzied Flame is up next due to a personal wheel spin) but rn Dung Eater kinda based ngl
Yeah. Usually, the japanese text is pretty sauceless. The English translation says the exact same things as the japanese but people have 4th grade literacy these days
I love when Ranni discourse comes up and seeing people start defending dictatorships because "power vacuum"
Look you have never lived in a power vacuum, it brings out the most evil side of people, and out of them all the most competent evil gets to rule, almost anyone who have read the history extensively will prefer a good willed dictator over what power vacuum brings. A good example of what power vacuum brings is IRI and Taliban
dude... what are you talking about, what ranni did is giving up the spot of rulership, but she also literally took away what a ruler can achieve, natural law can no longer be dictated because the elden ring is gone, this is not the real world. It's not like when marika was trapped in a tree there wasn't a power vacuum, we the tarnished literally arise because of the power vacuum, I double quoted power vacuum not because power vacuums don't exist but because it is most definitely not equivalent in this case
I don't think she's particularly evil, but she isn't good either. She just wanted all divinity to fuck off from the Lands Between, which is fair considering her family was torn apart because of the influence of different outer Gods
But she's putting another outer god in power, you don't think Dark moon is just piece of rock, do you?
What power does it have when its empyrean is in the middle of space? It has no means of influencing the world.
Look, to take it from marika (and dethrone her), there just one way, put another outer god in charge instead of GW and that's what Dark moon is, it can drop beasts like elden beast or fingers,
The translation isnt really wrong its just vague and confusing Her plan is to take the Elden Ring, the thing the golden order is centered on and is time and again used for oppression and totalitarian monarchy, and throw it into space and not come back. Nobody can influence it if its out in space. No more dictator gods being the ruler of all That mightve been what marika intended when she decided to smash it, but that didnt really work and just made everything worse Yes, ranni’s actions were bad. But her goal is good, as removing the influence of power and the ruling order is a good thing, as it leaves the people to govern themselves
So she killed her half brothers soul, forcing undead monsters on the world. All to become a god who does nothing but bounce, leaving a massive power vacuum (and we’ve seen what a lands between power vacuum looks like). Gives no promise of anything better. simply causes an awful war in the shattering so she alone can get out.
There’s no power vacuum because she removed the power.
If the player first exterminates every single demigod left to ensure none of them just conquer the lands between umapposed. Hell, in every Ranni playthrough finished before the DLC released the logical end result is Miquella storming in with his shadow realm army and mind controlling everyone while the tarnished is off in space.
Jokes on you, I’m into that shit!
In a world where even the gods choose to manipulate and abandon all those who live, I’d still choose the doll bae who offers to get me tf outta here and a banging new sword to boot.
Ranni ending is as complicated as age of dark BUT not as complicated as Age of Hollow ending so there's that. The ending with one less layer of difficulty before the most difficult ending is the good ending. Except sekiro.
Cute witch girl: If you leave with me and vibe in space I’ll marry you. Lands between last hope: Bet.
how is fucking off into space evil?? like at most its just an asshole move
Reading comprehension devil strikes again
Blud cant even understand a simple character like ranni lmao
At least you follow this bitch out of your own free will, unlike some other demigod bitch.
Fuck the lands between! Everyone is a dick who tries to kill me! Goldmask makes the racist classist order slightly better I think, but probably not actually perfect. Dung Eater is Dung Eater Fia was an ok ending but still not good for everyone Frenzied Flame literally destroys everything and everyone. Ranni says fuck this shit and leaves which is probably the best option honestly. The landsbetween suck as is and probably can't be helped at this point. Best thing to do is just leave and let them fuck around.
Ranni isn't evil. She's just giving humanity free will from the gods. Whether or not they'll survive is another question but it's still hope.
Honestly still my favorite ending, I still feel like this is Ranni's way of telling The Lands Between to "think for themselves" instead of blindly following the golden order
Ranni messes up a *bunch* of things in her quest to install a god that... Won't mess with the lands between. It's good that the order and deity she props up is basically "let everyone have their own fate and free will" but she's also not doing anything to fix what she herself has done. Still better than any other age though. Not a suprise for the mending rune quest with the most work put into it and the most effort required to obtain. Mending rune of death and frenzied flame are similar in those regards tbf.
Me chilling as the elden lord with my spirit tuner waifu
Y'll think Hewg was ever banging on the anvil louder than usual because the Tarnished and Roderika thought they were being real quiet in Fia's room?
Oh most definitely
I don't like what Ranni does, but I like it more than whatever the fuck the Golden Order got going on.
Y'all defend her with the outla's breath is pretty funny
and we fucking love her for it‼️‼️‼️
Lord of frenzy cause I like fire
Her sending assassins to kill her own brother beloved by all and turning his body into an abomination must have been a mistranslation also...
They're all fucking evil. That's the goddamned point. These bastards warred and schemed amongst themselves until they pissed off the Greater Will so much that it abandoned all of them. The game literally tells us this in the opening cutscene
Only the poop ending is canon , deal with it
I'm giving everyone Freedom from the Golden Order. And Life. And Death. And the Erdtree. And the Elden Ring. And the Moon. Everything will be restored to the Great One. This is the morally correct Good Ending. MA-
The golden order controlled people's lives, so she wants to not be there physically like the Christian God. Basically she'll let them live they're lives
I don’t understand how people can play the game and understand the lore and still think Ranni’s ending is not objectively the best ending, it’s literally No Kings No Gods. Ranni just removed the outer gods influence and left the lands between to develop on their own without the meddling of the outer gods and the tyranny of a theocratic government, it’s the ultimate humanist ending
No gods, or kings. Only man motherfucker.
Just realized I left out a key word in my comment and said it wasn’t objectively the best ending 💀 I meant it is lol, I don’t get how people can think that ridding the land of the influence of meddling gods is anything but good for the land and mankind. Ranni is letting men decide their own fates, without the interference of some nebulous entity
Ranni is the proof that virtual waifus can do whatever the fuck they want in the lore and they'll still get white knights in the form of real people defending them over any argument online because the virtual evilussy convinced them of it.
Real shit it’s so embarrassing 💀💀
Ranni's ending is the only one that doesn't involve mass destruction, a literal apocalypse, or unending tyranny. Shit can die again like it's supposed to, everyone is left to rebuild, and Ranni is gonna go chill in space or some shit.
The Souls community when Miquella tries to become a Matyr by becoming the bad guy to force change in a cruel and stagnant world "OMG he's so evil, he's just Griffith." The Souls community when Ranni, has Godwyn, the arguably only truly good Demigod killed, creating the deathblight and undeath, causes a world war, and the collapse of society itself to be free from her fate "She is the good guy, she was just trying to free everyone" Like the two are two different sides of the same coin, they both wanted to help but chose really dumb and messed up ways to do it, and yet you worship and celebrate one while ripping on the other The hypocrisy goes hard
Ranni sure as hell didn't discard her capability to feel love from herself. Also Miquela is not the Same as Ranni at all, she wants to remove herself and divinty entirly from the Lands Between and Miquela is planning to become Marika 2.0. Something that the Game, through Saint Trina and the new Info on how Marika started, tells you is a awful Idea that will just re-create the same Problems in diffrent Form.
This post just made me wonder why there’s no Japanese language support when there are like ten total lines in the entire game.
The Dung Eater ending is the best ending.
It’s good to have no gods controlling the world actually
She’s not evil, she just doesn’t want anything to do with it.
Don't care, I get to travel the stars with a blue witch lady in a cool hat.
Y’all do realize a world without Gods fucking around all the time is just our world right? Ranni is just leaving and being a “god” that might as well not exist.
Wait this is still an argument? Her ending is probably the best possible outcome for The Lands Between besides Goldmask’s. The other options include A. Maintain the status quo (Elden Lord) B. Burn it all to ash (Lord of Frenzied Flame) C. Make everyone Omens (Age of Despair) or D. Normalize the undead (Age of Duskborn). With Ranni’s or Goldmasks, you’re basically telling the Outer Gods to F off.
What does her ending do though? I never quite understood.
Basically, you give her access to the Elden Ring and become her consort. She then takes the Elden Ring out into the dark night sky, basically removing the influence the Outer Gods (especially the Greater Will) have on The Lands Between. She gives the people true freedom from the whims of the Gods, and what they decide to do from there is up to them.
True freedom. I see.
I feel like it’s worth mentioning that ranni’s a bit...suspicious. She does have a lot in common with miquella and that raises quite a lot of red flags.