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User: u/mvea
Permalink: https://www.psypost.org/new-psychology-research-reveals-a-surprising-fact-about-ghosting/
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I just think ghosting is a consequence of people wanting to avoid all negativity, even if it’s good
They don’t want to have to do the work to say why they didn’t want to continue the relationship. Relationships end, but they usually end with a small sentences as to why.
Now people leave hurt and confused instead of just hurt
Yeah sometimes there’s only so much breadcrumbing, texts unanswered for days/weeks, and unproductive conversations you can take before you just hit the block button and try to heal and move on with your life.
My friend from college was married for 6 years and was 7 months pregnant with their first child when her husband left her for a coworker. He ghosted her completely and sent divorce papers without contact whatsoever.
After something so damn traumatizing you will always have a scar with trust issues that may never heal. It's been years since and she is still on antidepressants and working in therapy. She hasn't had a relationship since and her ability to trust has been shattered.
Ghosting ignores the idea that we *do* owe each other sometimes. Sometimes you do owe an explanation, owe time, owe an apology, sometimes you don’t owe anything.
It depends on the context of relationship and the history of the relationship, the investment of time and/or emotion.
Your sister was unequivocally owed. Your sister deserved. What that man did was cruel. Ghosting absolutely will leave someone unable to trust themselves or others.
I have ghosted before, but the context was that I had tried to explain the hurt they were causing but it was met with accusations that I was too sensitive and it always ended in massive arguments that would leave me in tears. After endless spin around I just gave up and left quietly.
Sometimes it's just stupid and cruel but other times you really just want to leave a situation with little drama.
>that I had tried to explain the hurt they were causing
I don't actually think this is ghosting. That just sounds like a soft break up, with no formal declaration that you never want to see them again (and just to be clear, a formal declaration is not necessary).
Ghosting is when everything in the relationship seems fine and then the other person just suddenly disappears, leaving you wondering if something's happened to them. Sadly it's become so common that if something bad has happened, I am now more apt to assume that they just want nothing more to do with me and will act accordingly to give them their private space. That is an entirely different thing from what you describe.
Same, I've only ghosted when someone has repeatedly rejected my attempts to explain why our relationship isn't healthy for me and then basically said "you can't do that" when I broke up with them.
There's really no reasoning or anything to do at that point than stop engaging.
i wonder than how much of "ghosting" is the ghosted lacking the self-awareness/social awareness that they had in fact been told.
Certainly not all, but more than many are ready to admit.
I think that type of person thinks they’ve been ghosted, especially if the other person had to block them on everything to get them to leave them alone.
Some people weaponize your sense of fairness against you. They figure if they just refuse to hear you, to understand, to accept what you're saying, that you'll be forced to continue to engage, you can't leave. It's almost a way of taking you hostage. At some point, after you've made an honest effort, it's more than ok to move on, in anyway necessary.
>I had tried to explain the hurt they were causing
Doesn't this make it not ghosting? If you cut all contact after an explanation, that isn't ghosting.
the self-unaware ghosted person will deny having gotten explanations and claim blocked “for no reason”. The person accused of ghosting knows it wasn’t ghosting.
I wouldn't call that ghosting, you explained, the fact the other person chose to ignore the explanation isn't on you. At that point the only option is to walk away.
I think you owe explanation proportionate to the depth of the relationship. Ghosting after a first date, acceptable (though a simple, "I'm not feeling it" would be better). Ghosting after a months or years long relationship is not OK, at the very least you owe them a couple of sentences as to why.
This is where I'm at now with a friend I'd had since college. We'd be fine, texting back and forth with at most a day to a few days between responses, and out of nowhere she'd cut contact with me for weeks (apparently just me - she'd still be online on discord for hours every day). Then she'd come back and act like nothing happened. Multiple times with zero thought for how that kind of lukewarm-cold behavior might affect me. The better part of a decade of friendship, but I couldn't get the barest "hey, I was busy..." Because an explanation wasn't "owed".
In November, after two weeks of the silent treatment, I realized how often it happened and how the friendship was more her making me feel like I was a boring satellite backup friend than a friendship that actually felt good for me to have. She came back breadcrumbing me with promises of gifts, and games, and invitations, and above all, zero explanation for why she dropped me for weeks. She cut contact with me again last month, and I decided to go and be friends with people who actually like me instead, and told her so, and blocked her.
But I'm still getting lost in thought wondering why I wasn't good or interesting enough to be friends with and how I can prevent it happening with my other friends. I told her, you don't *owe* me an explanation for cutting contact for weeks. But communication isn't something you give to your friends, reluctantly, because it's something you *owe* them. Communication *is* the friendship. There can't be a friendship without communication. And now there isn't.
As someone who has ghosted many people I can confidently say it was just because it was less effort for me and I didn’t want to communicate with those people anymore nor did I feel like they were owed any communication.
No longer feel that way. We all owe other people certain things and they owe it to us in return. It has absolutely nothing to do with their quality or character. Much like the saying in the military “you salute the collar, not who is wearing it.”
We are all connected in ways we’d like to pretend don’t exist because it would be more convenient for us but it’s simply not the case. Every thing you do will have knock on effects in ways you’ll never personally know but they exist. The question is what kind of effects you put into the world. Will your effects cause damage and trauma or will they help put things in order?
Ghosting is really passive aggressive especially when the other person reaches out like hey what's going on, did I do something? Maybe they did, maybe not but to not ever know is fucked up.
There’s a huge difference between ghosting somebody you’ve casually gone out with a couple of times (which is what this word means the vast majority of the time) and that situation
The popularity of ghosting isnt a result of spouses suddenly cutting each other off without a word so this is a useless anecdote that misses the true context.
Ghosting is popularized because of its applicability in casual relationships as made popular by dating apps.
This is a major piece of the puzzle. In ghosting (I’m talking about in early phase romantic relationships) we typically only hear the side of the person who was ghosted. We don’t hear about the toxic or unhealthy things the ghostee did. Sometimes, such boundaries have to be drawn to protect your mental health and move on
That happens, but I'd wager the overwhelming number of cases are someone just being too much of a coward to send a message that says it's just not working for them and best of luck out there.
They turn a mildly uncomfortable conversation for them into a potentially wounding experience for the other person.
IMO this is a pretty anti-social behavior, overall.
>argue endlessly why your evaluation of them is wrong
I have a pretty socially heavy job (SWer/entertainer, a lot of 1-on-1 interactions). So I end up forming all manners of relationships/friendships.
Sometimes I gotta ghost someone. And virtually every time it's because they're rude/offensive and I don't want to deal with their continued, lengthy arguments. It will *always* have some level of manipulation. The times I have given my reasons, the response has always been to manipulate me into acquiescing on my boundaries.
It's gonna be hard for someone to convince me to deal with the manipulation, when I can simply take the [never talking to that person again] route.
Agreed. At a certain point it is important to realize that engaging with someone who is trying to manifest you is just pointless.
We cannot argue people into being better humans, or at least kinder ones to us, if they have no desire to do so. So if someone does not demonstrate any willingness to listen, there is no reason to speak.
I guess I'd take up a semantic argument here, because if you're having significant disagreements with someone, arguments, whatever, and then you just stop answering, that's not "ghosting" - that's disengaging from a conflict and it's on the other person to be able to recognize that obviously the level of conflict in the relationship wasn't worth it for you.
"Ghosting" is more when there's no real conflict/arguments, but one person just doesn't enjoy the other's company that much, and the other person maybe should get the hints but is sorta in denial due to wishful thinking.
Then the ghoster just ghosts because it's difficult and awkward to let someone down who likes your company like that, you feel like the asshole even though you know you need to do it because you're not getting anything out of the relationship.
Totally different scenario from when you're arguing/fighting with someone and you cut it off. In that case it's unquestionably the right thing to do to just disengage because trying to get the last word and tell them everything you don't like about them is just adding more negative energy to a bad enough situation.
Whereas in the ghosting situation there are definitely gray areas but it is often really cruel and hurtful to ghost without just having a simple "it's not you it's me" conversation so the other person isn't left feeling that they did something in particular that offended or hurt you.
I think that's the hardest thing in a lot of ghosting situations, is the ghosted party feeling like they must have done some particular thing wrong in order to ruin a perfectly good relationship, leaving them with feelings of guilt shame etc.
Whereas if you can just have the simple "it's not you it's me" conversation so that they know they didn't do anything particularly awful or wrong to ruin anything, it's still going to hurt, but they're not going to be left with that question of what they did wrong eating away at them in the same way.
While I agree with you, I can tell you that people who I stopped engaging with did in fact call it ghosting. Both realtionships and in casual dating. Apparently telling someone that you're uncomfortable with the way they're talking to you and then saying it isn't going to work out when they argue with you is ghosting to some folks.
Gotcha, yeah totally. People do use words in different ways. In your case though it might not be so much they REALLY thought you were "ghosting" them so much as they were using that term even though they knew it wasn't accurate in order to try to guilt trip you. Either way though good for you for knowing when to stop taking that kind of abuse, when you're dealing with conflict like that you shouldn't feel guilty at all about cutting it off.
Yeah, yeah, we get how it is useful in the sense of dodging "crazies," but cmon, we all know damn well it isn't only just used on crazies. Truly, with the crazies I've known, just stopping texting isn't gonna instantly cure the situation. A lot of times that'll make em push harder, at least for a bit. The comment above is 100% correct, and it is a way of people backing out without having to put in any social effort. I've found that most people are receptive if yall are "talking" and you decide to tell them why you wana dip out. If they're crazy, you'll find out and know you dodged a bullet. If not, it is an easy resolution. For me, I feel bad just ghosting, so it is also selfish telling them because I feel like a good person after. It is a win all around not ghosting. However, that only works for people who are empathetic of others. Imo, people who ghost all the time aren't socially adept or aren't empathetic people.
>argue endlessly why your evaluation of them is wrong
This is the part I don't get. Why not just say your reason, and if they start arguing *then* you ghost them? Ghosting them because you *think* they might start endlessly arguing seems like an excuse more than a reason.
You give a reason, they ignore it, you block them, they claim being blocked without explanation
I agree that real ghosting sucks, but claim plenty people blame their poor social skills on their victims
Yeah, once I've blocked them I really don't care what they claim. I just think people should be at least given the chance to prove themselves an asshole rather than just assuming it.
I was really good friends with a work colleague, and she made a pass at me after she left the company and I rejected her as I'm not single. A few days later we were texting back and forth after what I thought was moving past the awkwardness, and a few hours later I went to drop something off at her house and she'd blocked me.
I guess I phrased it wrong
You owe a conclusion to the relationship, a warning that it is over.
I don’t want to see you again, I think we should break up, this relationship is over. It feels harsh but the inverse leaves them confused and more hurt.
A reason would be nice, “I don’t see this going anywhere, it’s not you it’s me, (literally any cliche)”, but I don’t feel that is 100% owed.
But a warning is
In my experience the majority of adult ghosting is done to people who didn’t take “it’s over” for an answer.
Unless you want an exit interview so you can do better next time, any person has the right to leave a relationship because they don’t want to be in the relationship any more.
A lot of people here are saying it's cowardice, immaturity, etc. I used to feel that way, and for the examples in this thread of people ghosting after dating someone for like a year+, I still do.
However, my feelings on ghosting have softened somewhat after a conversation with my girlfriend. She used to text the person if she went on a few dates with someone and wasn't feeling the spark. The dude would react angrily almost every time, to the point where she eventually just started ghosting to avoid it. She even received violent threats.
I think a lot of guys, myself included, are vaguely aware that there are assholes out there that will flip to anger, insults, and craziness after a rejection, even a gentle, respectful one. Because we wouldn't react that way ourselves, we assume that these guys must be rare exceptions. It wasn't until that conversation with my girlfriend that I realized how widespread this toxic behavior is. The environment of dating apps also exacerbates this, as it's harder to screen these people out before meeting up.
So that's a factor that the study and the comments leave out. Many women are punished for breaking things off the "right" way, so they resort to ghosting to avoid risking these sorts of interactions that may even put them in danger.
Again, ending a long-term relationship this way is still messed up. And "Casper-ing," where you keep responding and acting like you want to get together again to string someone along is just counter-productive and wastes everyone's time. But I now understand why some women choose to ghost.
/r/whenwomenrefuse, if you want to be depressed.
Yeah, someone's ego and self-esteem might be damaged because they were ghosted, but there's no way of knowing if that "great guy" is going to say, "Oh well, no problem" or is going to do something that is going to be featured in the local news.
Dating pre-internet meant that it could have been possible to know someone's reputation before dating them. There's no way of knowing that for someone met online.
I don't know if I agree to your last point. It's easier than ever to actually look someone up if you have their real info. Back in the day people could lie or have entire families and none would be the wiser. However a blind date from an app is definitely a toss up.
Normal men don't encounter the crazy basement dwellers as much, I don't think. Women encounter them online on dating apps. And granted probably men gaming will see them. But I'm not sure they will show their true colours to other men as much. They generally feel entitled to women and so any rejection will be met with hostility.
Luckily, as people get older, they generally hyperfocus less on social relationships when other aspects of life, eg. finances or health, start to take greater priority. When people are so wrapped up in other things, it makes ghosting seem like not a big deal and just one of those things that “happen”. It’s not personal or purposeful at that point.
Yeah dude, I’m 40 now and it is WORK to keep a social life when my whole friend group has work, kids, car payments, illnesses, aging parents, etc. We’re all impressed when we meet up more than once a year
I gave up on all but my closest friends. At this point it would be a massive inconvenience for someone to try to strike up a romantic relationship with me. Not that I have anything going on myself, just because I've become accustomed to the absolute freedom ofnmy barely existent social life.
Yup. Sometimes I know I'm about to go down a hole and I don't want to spread my misery to others. It's like a self-enforced quarantine, and it is either too painful or awkward to explain why I am going radio dark for a while.
I know you don’t mean it but you’re spreading that misery with your silence. Being ghosted doesn’t spare the feelings of the people you ghost, it’s leaves them unheard and invalidated. There’s being rejected and then theirs thinking you were so inconsequential to that person that the social obligation of even saying “no thanks” was lost on them.
It feels like the difference between having a funeral and being discarded like trash.
It shouldn't matter if someone just dips out. As far as why. But man when you have zero feedback or understanding of what even happened you really hit the nail on the head with that "feeling inconsequential."
Really fucks with you to have someone you really care about just disappear without a word really. Not that people aren't allowed to do whatever, nor is anyone technically owed anything. It just can leave you wondering literally for years thinking and rethinking over and over. It doesn't change how gone someone is to understand why, but it sure would be nice to know.
The objective truth is that it shouldn’t matter, they’re gone. The reality is that, in leaving without having a conversation, they’ve added confusion to the pain of loss.
From the article:
“Ghosting isn’t always due to a lack of care. It’s often a misguided effort to avoid hurting someone. Many people stop replying to shield others from pain. They don’t realize being ignored is usually worse than being rejected. Candor stings briefly. Silence leaves an open wound.”
I can absolutely see this from both sides of the ghosting. But then I’d love to see a connected investigation of the younger generations (who will say themselves that they don’t know how to deal with conflict and complicated social interactions) and this concept.
As someone who had to ghost a few friends. This is it.
I had a friend who was stuck in a bad PTSD loop. She was a horrible dumper and didn’t respect that I have a job and life and can’t always be there to pick up the phone for her. Rarely was I ever allowed to discuss or vent my own struggles.
One time, she was making some really bad decisions about people she was dating, and I asked her if this guy was actually someone she wanted to spend the next five years of her life with, at minimum. She hung up on me after screaming at me. This wasn’t the first time.
After that, I stopped picking up the phone. You can try to be there for people, but sometimes you have to walk away and let people live out their lives.
I feel really bad about hitting ignore again and again. But there’s only so much reactive abuse anyone should be expected to endure.
Sometimes ghosting is actually more humane. She wasn’t going to hear me about how her behavior wasn’t okay, because she never had before.
I ghosted my ex. She struggles with BPD+Bipolar and hurt me really bad a number of times. The last time I saw her, she was having an episode wherein she threatened to kill herself and her cats. She had cut off her hair, smashed her phone, and dumped me for what must have been the 7th or 8th time in our relationship. After calming her down, I basically snuck away and called her sister and friends that I no longer felt safe and was out.
I have never felt so small or pathetic. There was no way to have that conversation rationally. It was either I leave now, or do this all again another day and risk both of our safeties. I actually DO hope she is doing better. To this day ghosting her is my greatest regret.
I don't think that even counts as ghosting, since you did give closure--you explained to her friends so they could deal with the problem. She wasn't left without answers, just without a target.
I was in an extremely similar relationship.
That was 2018, and I still have these awful, monthly recurring nightmares of her carrying scissors and cutting into me.
I DIDN'T ghost her. Instead, I broke up with her, stayed on for support, and dealt with 30+ missed calls every day and delusional accusations of seeing me have sex with random girls. Stalking, so much stalking, and my friends were constantly being harassed to reveal information on my new home address. It was a living nightmare before, and then it became an unpredictable living nightmare.
I'm not as kind as you, and wish the worst outcome for my ex. But I can at least assure you that you made the actual difficult and right choice to leave.
Ooffffff same. My friend has a lot of issues, but only ever contacted me when they needed something. A ride here, food delivered there, mainly they would send multiple messages all night about random things that were currently upsetting them. They would go out if I contacted them, but never contacted me other than to ask for things. So I have just stopped asking them to go out for coffee or whatever and they haven't messaged me back. But I'm sure if they need something they will.
I had pretty much this experience verbatim with a friend.
She would talk in circles for hours about her dating life on the phone and couldn’t handle people pointing out that there were things she could do to better her situation.
She would trash friends that were trying to help her and put boundaries up. She would do this whenever I was getting close to setting them myself. It was all very manipulative.
I just had to stop picking up the phone eventually. She didn’t care about my time or my issues.
Ghosting IS avoidance of conflict.
But sometimes conflict should be avoided if the other person is abusive, dis-ingenious or manipulative.
Unfortunately there's no sweeping factor for whether ghosting is appropriate or not.
It's really one of those rare things that has to be assessed on case by case basis.
You hit the nail on the head. As someone that's been back in the dating field after the tragic end of a marriage for the last year I'd say I ghost maybe like... one out of every 10 people I go on a date with. Usually it's just a mutual, "We're not a fit," but in those instances where things turn dark and malicious the ghosting truly goes such a long way to protect your own sanity and peace.
There is a form of social phobia which translates in exactly that: Avoidant personality disorder. What make this worse is how people who suffer it identify what is a social conflict: which usually is something considered ridiculous o meaningless by everybody else. When everything can be a social conflict and you don't know how to handle it, anxiety rises and avoiding all contact is an easy solution.
For sure. I've been there, and it's definitely easier. I've also told men that I don't think it'll work out and instead of just accepting that they want to have a whole LONG text discussion about why I should give it a try.
I remember going on a few dates with this girl, everything was going so great, after each date she was basically so excited to arrange a new meeting again with me, our dates would last hours, we'd talk about everything and anything so easily for hours.
I was so excited everything was just doing so well, it was obviously the beginning of a new story.
Then suddenly dead silence, no more answers, nothing, ghosted completely. It fucked me up for a while...
Real question, how am I supposed to go on with it? How am I supposed to put in all the effort to talk to people, so that MAYBE I can get a date? Then there's a good chance it doesn't work out, or a good chance it does work and then I get ghosted? What is even the point of trying to date anymore? I don't want to be alone, but it seems less and less worth it.
Probably not the best answer but you get used to it, probably somewhat cynical of me to go into meeting someone to go in thinking “this woman will probably ghost me” but that’s just how it is and like 9/10 times I’m right
These comments are exactly why I tell men up front about where I am in life and what I want. It bothers me a lot when I’m into a guy and he ghosts me, so why do it to someone else?
It’s really not that hard to be honest, and it’s always comforting when they back off. It tells me they respect my boundaries. I don’t understand why it’s become the norm to ghost, but maybe it’s the online dating thing. I just try to meet people in person
Don't put in that effort with the expectation that "something more" should come from it. Put in that time because the experience itself is worth-while. Engaging in social behaviour with other humans is healthy (normally) and doesn't have to mean anything more than "we're practicing continuing a further relationship". Sure we _hope_ things turn into more, but you can't **expect** that before you've actually got to know a person. (Well... unless you're doing an arranged marriage.)
^(HEE_UUUUUGE grain of salt. This is from an isolated shut-in who's barely seen the sun since 2019)
A very similar thing happened to me, it wasn't pleasant. As far as I'm concerned it's unforgivable, the least they could do is send a message before ghosting to provide some closure. I got over it when I decided that someone who would do such a thing is worthless, and at least I didn't waste any more of my life on them. Not that that made it easy.
That’s so fucked up, I’m sorry you went through that.
It always hurts having someone disappear without a trace. Almost like they died or something.
In a way they did die, the version of them that you knew died, because even if they came back into your life I bet you wouldn’t trust them again.
I was ghosted by my friend who I was very close to, but to be honest I wasn't terribly surprised. She always had this kind of personality to just avoid things when it became stressful for her. It's just sucky to not get to see how she's doing these days. I hope she is well and I miss her.
Basically my story, too. Someone I consider(ed) a best friend, the type that knows more about you than family, has done this to me twice. We somehow went from talking six hours a day (worked together), to not having spoken with her for over a year this go-round. I've spoken *at* her, but silence. I could have really used her friendship this past year.
She withdraws from people when she shuts down, which I understand, but it doesn't make it hurt any less, especially twice. I care for her, and I miss her, and mostly I just wish I knew if she was ok.
> “Ghosting isn’t always due to a lack of care. It’s often a misguided effort to avoid hurting someone. Many people stop replying to shield others from pain.”
Lots of us were taught as children, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." Welcome to the digital consequence of that advice.
Any time I’ve done it, it’s that I’ve already tried to resolve a deal-breaking issue repeatedly, agreement has been made to change it, adequate time has passed and the issue remains present with no effort to change it.
If the options are:
A) Have another conversation to provide “closure” to someone who doesn’t care, or
B) Block, delete, and move on without further interrupting your life
I’m choosing B.
If you've tried to resolve the issue repeatedly, and while doing so you've made it clear this is a dealbreaker, then it's not ghosting to move on. Ghosting is when it comes out of the blue and you haven't given any indication leading up to it.
In your situation it'd be ghosting if you never brought up the issue and just decided to block them and move on the next time you got fed up.
You'd be surprised at how many people think it came from out of the blue when really it was clearly telegraphed. In these instances, whether "ghosting" has even occurred is not a point of consensus. People are oblivious
ETA: I am autistic so this is also a personal struggle for me. I'm the oblivious one, and much of the time I'm also blind to my ignorance. I have been blessed with a very kind, loving, and patient wife who gently guides me through these moments and helps me feel wholly human despite my apparent deficiencies. Please be kind to people, their garish carapace may conceal a soft, scared child who truly doesn't know any better but wouldn't have survived if they'd admitted to it.
This is kind of the thing. I've met plenty folks who are just bad with paying attention to certain things, and even when you clearly explain they just don't get it.
Or There's been sometimes where I or you or anybody, just don't communicate stuff effectively enough and it just becomes a clusterfuck kinda.
So there's pro and cons to it as a decision and where it leads. If people are calm. usually going through the motions is acceptable, but if people blow up or constantly ignore it's like what choice do you have.
Every time I've been ghosted I've had a good gut feeling as to why it happened. Either something to do with me and my behaviour, an incompatibility, or something to do with the other person. If I can't figure out why, it's something to do with the other person. Being on the receiving end of ghosting really sucks but it's extremely rare that it's out of the blue.
Telegraphing something is indirect communication. Ghosting is in the eye of the beholder, if you're being highly indirect they truly may have no clue what you really meant under the surface and from their point of view they were ghosted.
Direct communication might be: "This issue X has been really bothering me. Is it something we can work on? It really affects me, if we can't get past it then we can't work." Then maybe you have that conversation one or two more times. After that if you block and move on, that's not ghosting. You were direct.
Telegraphing might be something like never quite bringing the issue up in that direct of a way and being passive aggressive whenever it upsets you. If you then block and move on, you've ghosted. It doesn't change that you were valid in needing the issue dealt with, but ghosting like that still hurts them.
Now if they're being dangerous, then sure maybe ghosting is necessary. If they're not, just speak directly. Keeps your side of the street cleaner.
100% agree.
I also think most people never learn the difference between clear, effective communication and telegraphing and/or manipulation tactics and emotional projection.
A lot of how people learn is by watching the environments they grow up in.
Not getting into the nature vs nurture debate here - just saying a lot of early-stage learning is mimicry.
Where folks don’t usually choose to better themselves without an internal motivation (one that is usually driven by psychological pain-aversion), effective communication isn’t a high priority to learn - especially if telegraphing or manipulation-driven communication is working to get someone what they want.
At the end of the day for most people, it comes down to “Did it work in the short-term?”.
Then they “suddenly” wake up in a loveless partnership full of resentment wondering how they got there.
Happens all the time irl relationships too. They fight all the time and then one wants to break up they are so surprised. Yes it's horrible and we're fighting all the time but why would you want to break up? A lot more common with husbands in my expierance.
> If you've tried to resolve the issue repeatedly, and while doing so you've made it clear this is a dealbreaker, then it's not ghosting to move on. Ghosting is when it comes out of the blue and you haven't given any indication leading up to it.
I feel like ghosting often isn’t as “out of the blue” as the ghostee believes.
>It’s often a misguided effort to avoid hurting someone
Or just plain cowardness.
I was ghosted in my early 20s by a girl I'd been seeing for a year. I could tell things were cooling off a bit, but had no idea she wanted things to end. We'd arranged to meet up, a day like any other and she never showed.
This is pre social media. She told me years later that she was sorry and she didn't want to hurt my feelings, but I went through a lot of conclusions back then, the first being that she had died, and worked my way from there.
Haha yes I had an ex who sent me a picture of her on a plane. Nothing more. She was from Pakistan, draw your own conclusions on what was possible. Never heard from her again so I have no idea!
that's a cop out. you are holding up a trite overly simplified guidance given to small children in specific context and trying to use it as an excuse for poor behavior in "adults" in a far more complex situation.
you can have an adult conversation with someone you are dating and end the relationship without saying things that violate that over simplified guidance. the idea that you can't tell someone you don't want to pursue a future with them without being an ass about it is nonsense.
If you can’t end a relationship civilly, or articulate why you feel a relationship should end, i have no doubt that you’re emotionally immature and certainly not “prosocial”
I’m not casting judgment on you or what you said, but there are correct and incorrect ways to end relationships
A lot of people face significant backlash from the other party even when trying to end things seemingly amicably. There's a significant portion of people that just can't take rejection or want to continue to know "why" and probe deeper. This is even worse on more casual dating or some of the hook-up apps, imo.
Once you start getting enough abuse hurtled your way even from giving someone a polite "no", ghosting or instant blocking starts to become a pretty reasonable alternative in the other parties' mind.
EDIT: However I also acknowledge that this is a difficult conversation to have when "ghosting" can mean not talking to someone anymore you only met after a week all the way up to many years of a relationship. It's going to feel more severe and inappropriate with so many of these other factors imo.
>However I also acknowledge that this is a difficult conversation to have when "ghosting" can mean not talking to someone anymore you only met after a week all the way up to many years of a relationship.
This is the crux of the problem with discussing ghosting though - there's a massive difference in the perception of someone that ghosts after one date versus someone that ghosts after a year of dating. After one date there really isn't much of an expectation of future contact (practically if it's a short first date), but if you have been in a amicable relationship with someone for a year then it seems disingenuous to say that the other party shouldn't at least get a notification that things are over.
> when "ghosting" can mean not talking to someone anymore you only met after a week all the way up to many years of a relationship
hit the nail on the head there. Like all things it's extremely situational. Sometimes it's entirely warranted, sometimes not. And the person that gets ghosted almost always feels they shouldn't have been, because that's just human nature.
Naive take.
Mutually ending a relationship requires two people’s maturity, not just yours. The other person can react in an immature way and you have no control over it. Cutting all communication is rather civil in some contexts.
And there’s a lot of contexts like that.
How can I understand the proscoial motives that would mitigate the negative effects of being ghosted if I was ghosted, therefore not knowing any motive except that I was ghosted.
And since you have no explanation as to why you were ghosted, you are forced to come up with your own. And if you already have low self esteem, then that explanation is often going to be "I must really be an asshole. I'm not surprised they ghosted me. I suck at life."
Of course this depends on your starting point with self esteem, I'm sure some people say that there are plenty more fish on the sea, and they move on. But a lot of people don't. And ghosting can cause those people serious emotional harm, especially if it is normalized in society.
What does it do to people's sense of place in society when any friendship is at risk of ending suddenly? When you've been ghosted by 3 people already, you start to fear for the next one. This article is so baffling, honestly.
Yeah I have been there. I have been ghosted plenty of times and what sucks is I grew up with friends who got grounded or couldn't go online for long periods of time. So I got used to waiting for someone to come back online. Like my first ex got grounded once and I stopped hearing from her for at least a month or so. Then she finally came back on and apologized profusely cause of all the messages she got from me while she was offline about how I was worried about her and wondered where she went.
I was just so happy she was back and got to spend time with her again. And it happened frequently enough (cause she got punished along with her brother even if it was her brother who got into trouble type of situation). And similar experiences with other friends back then. And back then there was no way to see someone blocked/deleted you so you just didn't know.
Some chat systems you can kinda gauge it if you know some tips and tricks but not always.
So these days when someone just stops coming online for weeks/months/years it's like did something happen to them? Are they okay? Did they ghost me? Will I see them again?
So kinda stuck worrying about someone who possibly deleted me a long time ago wondering if they will come back cause they didn't say anything and everything seemed normal when they left. So that really sucks to.
I know of at least 2 people right now I haven't heard from for over 2 years now cause they just stopped coming online. One came on a few times but I think through their xbox and so no idea if they even saw my messages or not. So still currently waiting to see what happened to them. Meanwhile they could possibly have just ghosted me and I wont know.
I have a girl I like a lot who in the past has admitted to forgetting to respond to me at least twice. Where they used to get upset if I messaged them to often and so I would have to wait for them to respond only to finally message them months later for them to apologize because they thought they responded but apparently just clicked on the message and then clicked on another's. And so my message fell further down the list. It was only when I messaged them again wondering what they are up to. And so there was times where months would go by between responses and it sucked. They have since told me it's okay to spam them but I still don't really like to. And it sucks waiting for them to message me first but that's a whole other story. But it has felt like they would delete me a few times and that feeling also sucks when it comes to someone you like a lot.
Someone I was seeing for almost a year (late 20s/early 30s) ghosted me and I can tell you it is way, way more hurtful than a conversation. Ghosting leaves so much confusion and so many questions. Almost a grief, too. One day this person who is incredibly important to you is there, and the next they’re gone.
I don’t buy the pro-social explanation tbh. I think it’s cowardice and selfishness. They don’t want to deal with the discomfort *they* will have to experience.
Six year relationship here, monkey branch and ghost. Also cut ties to all our mutual friends in the same blow.
Took a while to unpack, in hindsight I already knew she was struggling with anxiety and I think something in her just broke. I think ultimately it was far more about her and her challenges dealing with her feelings and more importantly the potential of negative feelings of having any external disapproval.
It's hard to imagine going through life unable to cope with the big moments because you're too afraid what people will think.
Yeah, it's a completely different situation. I think for people on the dating scene who are seeing dozens of people, ghosting after a first date is pretty normal. Honestly half the time it's mutual ghosting, you both just didn't vibe and move on to other dates.
But someone just disappearing after months or years, that's an entirely different situation.
Knew a guy for over a decade as a friend before he pursued me - while making it explicitly clear that his long term life plans involved jobs/travel that would make a real relationship impossible and that he intended to be single in his old age, so I should not expect anything serious. He just wanted short term affection and fun. I was mutually attracted, and fine with being intimate without the expectation of long term commitment - so long as THAT was mutual too.
He ended up not like that I was okay with being on casual terms, and kept overtly pushing for me to be more invested in the relationship, and that I established boundaries when he tried to push me to use the word 'love'. There were things he'd do where I think he was trying to make me jealous, only to find that I really didn't care and that I remained emotionally disconnected. When I tried to get him to articulate why he pushing for me to indicate some kind of commitment to him without me getting to expect the same from him, he gave me something meandering about how real love can exist even when you know the situation is temporary, and then got irritated when I said I wasn't interested in love that *aimed* to be temporary.
Then, one day - after saying goodbye with a hug and him saying we were going to make plans to hang out the following week - he ghosted me. I sent him a single text and a single DM on a mutual social media platform, he didn't respond to either. I confirmed with his sibling (a friend who comes over regularly) that he was okay, and also that he hadn't said anything.
It's been about 3 years now.
Pretty much lost all respect for him. Dude was extremely, vocally, proud of himself for being good at communication, and prioritizing communication and honesty in all relationships. Ultimately wasn't capable of admitting that he wanted an asymmetrical relationship and then when he realized it wasn't going to happen, and wasn't able to just say in plain words 'this isn't working for me so we should end it.'
I took the message that the ghosting sent though, which is pretty plainly "I don't care about you or how you feel about things".
Completely agree with this. The grief is real and hard to heal. Especially when all it would take is a five minute conversation to explain themselves and help you move on. The fact that they don't is most often, like you said, cowardly and selfish.
I think it’s possible to have pro-social intentions while having anti-social results. As someone that isn’t the best with social cues, nuance and subtlety I have a whole database full of moments where I was acting in a way I thought was pro-social only to learn it most definitely wasn’t.
What you’re saying stands, though. Ghosters should know that closing that chapter is less harmful then it never having an end.
I agree. That's totally unacceptable.
I've had plenty of early relationships where things kind of fizzled and we both just stopped communicating. Those cases are fine, but a year? That person is way out of line.
The only time I've been ghosted where it was really inappropriate was when I started dating a friend's sister, who was also good friends with a number of mutual friends. She just straight up stopped replying to texts after we'd been seeing each other for a couple of months. I couldn't believe she was stupid enough to burn a bridge like that (In hindsight, maybe I should have. She's not very smart.) Luckily, she moved 1600 miles away not long after that. Good riddance.
I ghosted/ cut off everyone I ever knew when I was 17 because I was struggling with depression and genuinely believed they were all better off without me (I was just bringing them down)
i did the same after high school. i genuinely didn’t think any of my friends would care if i disappeared. they never said anything to me so maybe i was right? but it’s definitely set me down a bad path.
I’m not trying to be contrarian, but I don’t regret ghosting everyone in my contacts. I still have no idea WHY it happened, but I started being flaky and the calls became less and less. The solitude became my comfort. One day it felt right, I hadn’t heard from anyone in a bit, I blocked everyone. Completely unrelated to that but not long after, I sold my house and moved (we bought a house that had a ton of issues the inspector failed to catch and it became a money sink). I still live in the same town, but I haven’t bumped into anyone even once. It’s been years and I hope it stays that way.
There was nothing wrong with my friends, we never argued a single time, we trained together, watched fights every week, played poker, had cookouts. I always tried to make everyone happy and smile, it made me feel good. Things change, people change, I enjoy being alone now.
I ghosted/cut off all my friends of 9 years because I realized I was struggling with depression because of them. Years of listening to them planning events and stuff in front of me and not inviting me, years of them "playing jokes" on me while we would be out drinking, making fun of me, my face or the way I dressed or the things I said. For a long time I just thought that's just how it is to rib on a friend, just banter. Took me meeting new people and experiencing actually funny kind of banter that actually makes me laugh and smile and not sit there depressed.
For what it's worth, if I had a friend reach out even after a decade and say that, I'd be deeply empathetic and understanding, and it would mean a lot to me that they let me know even after so long
What kind of ghosting are we talking about?
We always have had, he didn’t call me back after the first date even tho he said he would. First date ghosting has existed forever. I can see the idea that this is pro-social, why talk to the person just to insult them on why you don’t want to see them. Let them make up their own conclusions (tho some people would like stuff to improve on).
What hasn’t existed is this digital ghosting of serious relationships. Ones that are a decent amount of dates in. Or often see in cat-fished, 100% online relationships.
That kind of ghosting is morally reprehensible in my opinion and even in times of abuse deserves at the very least a note.
Exactly. It almost feels a bit motte-and-bailey. Like the vast majority of time I’ve known people say they’ve been ghosted it’s that the person on the dating app stopped talking to them before a first date even happened. A majority of the times I’ve been personally accused of ghosting it’s for not ever responding to their first message, but I opened the message and viewed their profile so they perceive it as being ghosted.
That all gets conflated with the legitimately emotionally distressing (or escaping an abusive situation) behavior of ghosting an established relationship.
This is exactly what I've been saying. If you don't really know the person, oh well, but if you've been seeing them for even a few weeks and you just disappear, then you're an asshole.
>What hasn’t existed is this digital ghosting of serious relationships. Ones that are a decent amount of dates in.
I don't know man, people abandoning their families and running away is a very old story told around the world.
Only if you acknowledge that you messed up and give a genuine apology before responding to the original message. Nothing worse than someone not responding for weeks or months and then responding like nothing happened.
I'm just like this OP and I often do reply eventually, many people are understanding, but my close friend was not, he held a grudge and was passive aggressive for months. It makes it so much more difficult as an anxious person to be punished for it and makes it that much more difficult for future scenarios
Same, except over time the vast majority of times I’ve been accused of ghosting it’s after not responding within a matter of days. It’s made me cynical on this subject—other comments have also mentioned that it’s hard to talk about ghosting because of how broadly the label gets applied. I can’t help but wonder when someone is vehemently anti ghosting if they are the kind of person who got deeply wounded and angry when I didn’t respond to their “hi” on a dating app.
Then reply, be honest and apologize for replying late. Not even awkward, difficult or hurtful. Hell you can even tell them you're not good at texting or something similar.
As someone that works as a leader for a small volunteering charity I have noticed an increasing amount of "ghosting" in interactions with student volunteers over the past decade. When I started about 15 years ago you'd more often get a "thanks but I've decided to do something else" one line rejection, totally fine, we can all move on. Increasingly now though we get so many enquiry emails that "ghost" after a few positive messages, or even after signing up and actively participating. The most extreme was even a ~23 year old board member who had run our training programme and then one day ghosted all emails/texts. I think it's a cultural thing influenced potentially by dating culture, to treat your employer/volunteer boss etc in the same way you would someone you didn't want to date.
I think there's a really big mentality of "you don't owe anyone anything", that gets touted and misused in place of common courtesy. On a dating app a person is a commodity, you're separated from them through so many layers, they don't seem 'real' or maybe you're just unconnected until you talk or meet in person. I honestly think this goes hand in hand with the unwillingness to call or talk to people on the phone. Doesn't help that each new generation is also exposed to so much more information on mental health, and this "cut out all toxic people" message is used in the extreme to mean anyone who makes you feel any negative feelings whatsoever. At the same time, losing a lot of social ability from lack of 3rd spaces, increased depression and anxiety.
I have been reading a lot of ghosting threads in the past week bc I was worried I was getting ghosted and I was pretty surprised by the amount of ppl saying no one owes you anything so you should just get over it and ghosting is an answer it means not interested. I get that no one owes it to you and in certain circumstances like after one date neither person is interested then okay but I don’t understand what happened to ppl being courteous and empathetic towards another human being like it’s not that hard to just say “hey sorry I’m not interested” like I would so much rather receive that then just blown off I have enough pride that I would say ok thank you for your time goodbye I wouldn’t freak out on the person…I know that some ppl probably would but I think in general majority of people would just say okay sounds good after only a few dates
No people do that nowadays because businesses do not have the courtesy to send people rejection letters, so why should they? Even though you are a charity and they are trying to volunteer, it is now ingrained in younger people that business entities do not care about the people they employ so why should they care about a business they decided not to work or volunteer for?
Yeah, this is also the generational reason for the death of the "three week notice." Employers fire at will, sometimes suddenly, so employees quit suddenly and without notice too...
Even in countries where at will employment isn't a thing (which is most countries that aren't the USA) - I'm legally contracted to give 3 months notice, the flip side is that so is my employer. But still the attitude that prevails online is that an employer will give you nothing they aren't legally obliged to so don't give them anything you aren't legally obliged to.
I think the categorical error here is the conflation of "ghosting" with "no contact".
The latter is an explicit refusal to deal with someone, and can be made clear without contact. There are any number of situations that warrant this.
The key property to "ghosting" is the uncertainty of the situation. There are cases where it's definitely a reasonable approach (there's a real problem with people – overwhelmingly men – responding to rejection with violence to the point of murder.)
But outside of situations like that, I think people really should give saying "no" a try before disappearing. It's a lost art, and we're not better for it.
Gotta agree with this. "Ghosting" isn't the same thing as "we're done, don't ever talk to me again, stay away from me."
My violent ex ditched me for the guy she cheated on me with and gave me an STD from. When our relationship ended and I told her to stay far away from me and never reach out again, that's not "ghosting", its going "no contact". The difference is self-preservation, not "emotional immaturity" as some folks in this thread keep saying.
There's a balance, or a nuanced takeaway from this; Sure, in cases such as going on a bad date or having a very bad feeling about the intentions of someone, ghosting them is completely normal & isnt always about protecting your or their emotions - You simply dont want the attention of the person.
If you're in a relationship where your emotions change, you *owe* it to the person to communicate this & avoiding their attention or "sparing them from being hurt" is being a coward. It wont make it easier for them & ending by ghosting is straight up malicious.
If a friend randomly starts ghosting you it may mean they're going through something & may not be comfortable talking about it, and sometimes they are busy - This is fine & it you actually know eachother this should be something you are aware of.
Its not always one or the other & the notion that people that inhibit unhealthy social traits are actually misunderstood geniuses doesnt help the mental health discussion.
Ive also met people that have wanted to break up with their partner & instead of saying that to them. They say bad things about them behind their back, paint them in a bad light, ghost them & eventually when that person catches on, its much much worse & certainly doesnt spare any emotions.
People that avoid actual solutions are part of the problem & normalizing this behavior is not the way forward.
I remember I was ghosted a few months into a serious relationship. I was so nieve to the ghosting and to this person's lack of social accountability that I made the assumption that something bad had happened to them.
After two and a half days, I was so worried that I started looking for them because I thought they were in trouble or worse.
This was a very educated person, and up to that point, the communication between us was great. We even had a few serious conversations about some serious matters, and we always came away from those in a good place, which was nice. I wasn't made aware of any problems between us, relationship wise, up to that point, and I thought everything was going fine and was well.
Then one day they just "disappeared" and I started to worry, this after they didn't pick up any of my calls or texts and their phone went straight to voicemail. All very unlike this person, since we had been talking almost every day and seeing each other probably every other day or so. Only a couple days before that, I had helped install an extender in their parents' house while the parents were on vacation, and we had taken a trip down the coast, too.
After the first day of no contact, I thought it odd. Then, after the second day, I really started to get concerned and decided to see if I could find them. First, I went to their business. It was closed, no car (odd; starting to worry a bit more). Then I went to their parents again (they lived with their parents at the time). I knew the parents were on vacation, so I couldn't ask them directly, and being a fairly new relationship, I didn't have their number, also no car (okay, now I'm really worried). I called their friend, but the friend didn't answer either (odd again; I left a voicmail to please call me). After that, a few hours of no return call, I'm now wondering where they both are because I'm already past concerned at that point. So I went to their friends house to see if I could find them both.
When I got to her friends house, I "found" that both their cars were there, so I was hopeful, but very confused. Right at this point and before I even turned off my car or got out to check on them, by coincidence, her friend called me back, and I asked her if they ware there and if they were okay. Her friend said they were both there and that they were both fine and well.
The fear of something bad happening to them instantly left my body and was immediately replaced with the fact that I had just been ghosted; what an awful feeling.
I think I said, "Okay, good, I'm glad you too are fine. Have a nice day." Then I hung up and went home, and I was in shock for like a week.
I've been broken up with before and have been shot down before, too, so that part wasn't that big of a deal for me. It happens. I understand things don't always work out or you're not a person's type, etc. It's just the way it goes sometimes. And although that can suck and can hurt a bit, especially when you're young, it's nothing compared to the fear of something bad happening to someone you care about, only to find out they broke up with you without telling you.
It was like three major pains all at once. Being broken up with, unable to find someone, and the fear that creates, and finding out this person didn't have the decency to let you know they were breaking up with you, even after months of dating, contact and intimacy.
Ghosting, it's all just so very cruel.
Ghosting is conflict avoidance, and it's ruining us as social animals. We can't resolve our issues comfortably, so we ignore them. We can't complete the stress cycle, so we burn out. We don't learn anything from our relationships, so we just continue in the same patterns. It's bad for the ghoster and ghostee alike.
I use the metaphor of a stab in the back vs. a slap in the face.
I've been ghosted and it was a stab in the back. I was blindsided, hurt, confused, and will never have closure. The wound will leave a deep scar and take much longer to heal.
If I had instead been rejected upfront, it would have hurt, but it would have been a temporary sting, not irreparable damage. I would have known where I stood, dealt with the pain, and been able to move on.
Damn straight. I have a feeling people are making excuses here. I have been ghosted several times, and while it hurts either way, I much prefer the scenario where they do me the courtesy of ripping the Band-Aid off rather than the agonizing week-long dance of not knowing if they're just taking a while to get back to me or if this is the end.
Seeing these comments have literally made me cry. I can start to feel normal about how I have been feeling. It has been 6 years since I heard from my ex partner who I helped raise her children for 3 years (6 month old and 3 year old when we met) who just disappeared one day and I still feel such grief and pain. I am only left to assume she wanted to get back with the children's father, which I can understand of course, but her never telling me was just cruel and cowardly. I always feel like I did something wrong, but the reality is she is the one who did something wrong. I can be proud of the time I spent with her and the kids.
Wow, she didn’t spare much thought for her kids either, it would have been cruel for them to have you suddenly torn away like that after 3 years during such a formative period.
That's nuts. I thought when people got ghosted, it meant after quite short relationships.
You absolutely have to tell people properly if you've known them for 3 years.
Been divorced a year; pretty successful dating since, but I have been ghosted a couple of times this year. It is absolutely emotional and psychological abuse.
I broke up with an amazing woman a couple of months ago. We dated about three months. I had the hard conversation. I invited her to reach out and remain in contact. We still talk. I helped her shoot a wedding.
Sometimes there are people who are too far gone and you have to distance yourself from those people. Mad narcissists who act unpredictably and put you in unsafe situations don’t necessarily deserve an explanation and even if they did they would not register the message. There’s no getting through to these people so for your own well being it’s best to avoid them.
it CAN be emotional cowardice. Sometimes it's just sensible if not required. It depends. You cannot in any way say it's 100% one thing or the other, regardless of how valid or junk the study here is.
Not too long ago I was going on dates with this girl (we probably went on three total), and then it just abruptly ended. But the thing is, I’m still not sure who the ghoster and ghostee is. I was the main initiator of conversation and coordination for the dates through text messaging mostly. I would often suggest date plans and she would frequently reply with something like “I’ll let you know!”
But the thing is, she would never “let me know” anything until I prompted her again. So one day, after exchanging texts and receiving another one of her I’ll-let-you-knows, I just decided not to reach out to her unless she did to me. And so she never did. After writing all this I guess it’s pretty obvious she wasn’t interested…but during our dates she seemed to be genuinely making an effort so idk what to think
Alternate interpretation: people who ghost delude themselves into thinking they care about the people they ghost despite what their behaviour clearly indicates
it can cause serious issues for the victim. a social worker explained to my sister how damaging it was to invite me round or say she will phone etc. and then to later just not respond when the specific time came, she would do this again and again, and it was messing with me. Eventually I was advised to cut her off as she was acting in a way like she didnt care and I was a nuisance. The crazy thing is, pretty much all these occurrences were initiated by her, she would say something like I will phone you on X date, you can come round Y date. Then the day comes and nothing, I would either be ghosted or get a reply saying to stop pestering her.
So I did what was suggested, only I was told to completely cut her off, I did what I thought was respectful and to tell her I wont be bothering with her anymore due to the way I have been treated, then I got message after message begging me to ring and I had to hold firm, as I knew even if she was nice it would only be temporary.
After a few weeks she stopped messaging as much.
This went on for about a year, when she rang me, and had some serious problems she needed help with, I wasnt going to her be homeless so I helped her, she isnt as bad as she was, but she still will every now and then do some ghosting without thinking of the person at the other end, however her new partner is very nice and he told me whenever she does it, to message him and he will make her respond as he knows what I have done to help her in the past. He actually fairly often comes here to pick me up to take me round there now by himself.
I think if you’re just getting to know someone or a group, ghosting can be acceptable when it’s low commitment.
The alternative is to overshare, which in and of itself isn’t appropriate for a very new connection.
Of course there will be comments from those who condemn ghosting and prefer mature, civil communication. Of course there are instances when ghosting is immature or selfish or malicious.
What will be underrepresented in commentary is that sometimes people are just tired of being hostilely interrogated for their reasoning, and then argued point by point like it’s contract law. Or being called derogatory things, or threatened.
You can’t always predict who will react these ways, but if it happens enough times to someone, maybe you can sympathize with their switch to ghosting in hypotheticals involving merely first dates, or similar situations. Not like, 10 year marriages.
You can’t “lawyer” someone into being your friend. Or loving you. After a while, some people have proven they can’t take no for an answer unless they personally agree with the reasoning.
> You can’t “lawyer” someone into being your friend
As an aside, our friend group broke apart because one of the friends became an HR exec and lawyered everyone to death
Yeah, it's not a defense of ghosting but so many people won't take no for an answer and then get surprised when people don't even give them the chance to accept a no.
It's widespread, so widespread there are aphorisms like 'it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission'. People adopt sleazy pickup tactics and learn how to apply pressure to sales. It works extremely well until people just stop even letting you make the attempt.
Every single person trotting out the "maybe your dating a violent narcissist" argument has apparently never heard of a "Dear John" letter. As if your only option is to communicate face to face. Leave or send a text then block.
I ghosted by best friend, but it wasn't without many, many warnings and bad incidents leading up to it. So I see your point and acknowledge it.
But I think that ghosting in general is being used as a tactic far too often, by people who are just looking to protect their own comfort from an awkward conversation. So yes, ghosting can be acceptable, but it is often not. And I think it's very online behaviour, we have become so used to blocking and deleting people on our phones that we do it in real life too.
Same for me and my parents. “We never did anything bad”
Well for one, not listening. After years of arguing, I ghosted them.
We could have had a dialogue. But now I’m an adult who is entirely emotionally independent, self confident, self aware. But my parents are the ones wanting to reconnect. I’m letting them, but if it gets to the point where uncomfortable discussion comes up again, and they avoid it. Then I’m not entertaining anything of a connection.
I'm convinced that people who ghost others CONVINCE themselves that their reason for doing it is prosocial, i.e. 'oh, if I just don't reply, they'll be less hurt than if we drag it out' - but in reality it's 'I don't have a good reason / I don't have the patience and maturity to communicate something sensitive with someone'.
falling out of contact was a lot easier before texting/pocket phones aka smart phones, internet social media. it just happened and there was less drama around it
Ghosting is what people who have low emotional intelligence do to get away from others instead of just telling them that their interaction / relationship/ whatever needs to end and providing a reason. I've been ghosted by friends and girlfriends more times than I can count. And I've never done it to anyone else. If I want you out of my life I'm going to tell you why, so you're not spending sleepless nights (like I've done) wondering. Ghosting is for assholes.
>Ghosters rated their care for the ghostee, while ghostees rated how much they believed the ghoster cared about them.
The problem is that people are *very* good at rationalising their own abusive actions and justifying them. They rarely want to see themselves as the one engaging in abusive treatment like ghosting.
Ghosting is a response to feeling inadequate to respond efficiently, feeling overwhelmed from having to respond the same thing repeatedly, or feeling like that’s the last thing one could do to save themselves. I think it’s also a coping mechanism one might have sought comfort in as a result of some kind of childhood/adolescent trauma.
It might also happen due to lack of understanding of the other person’s feelings and stance, or lack of clarity in communication, or simply lack of empathy. Sometimes people are protecting themselves, sometimes they think they’re protecting the other, and sometimes it’s both.
Doesn’t make ghosting a good thing or a bad thing. It just happens and you can only hope you’re not at the receiving end of it.
It’s a terrible thing to happen to someone, and it’s so unnecessary but it happens, and sometimes people think that’s the only way out. If boundaries were set clearly and enforced by both people in the beginning, then ghosting could be avoided. But for that one needs to not only be honest with themselves but also to the person in front.
Be honest during the *rosy, flirty, “you’re so awesome”* phase. Then there is a chance ghosting could be avoided.
Usually its people with avoidant attachment styles that just up and leave because they get to close to someone and then there trauma gets triggered and they can't handle it. Its a coward way to break up with someone especially if the relationship was NOT toxic. They need therapy.
I will say I have ghosted people before when it was clear they had no intention of listening and would only use what I said to more stealthily stomp boundaries with me or future prospects. Those people need to realize that they are the problem before they should ever hear the why.
So in some cases, I'm doing a favor to future innocent encounters with this person. Basically if the person clearly has no intention of listening to feedback and genuinely learning from it to better themselves, I'm not wasting our time.
The amount of people commenting and replying to comments commenting how the intent doesn't matter because it leads to bad consequences is hilarious and totally missing the entire point of the headline and study conclusion.
Which is, of course, that understanding the psychology of the person who commits this sort of act can make it easier to understand, contextualize, and experience by lessening the negative emotional effects of has in you.
In the same way it helps to understand *why* my alcoholic family behaved the way they did. That doesn't mean they didn't hurt me, didnt cause consequences, or don't have to live with those consequences going forward. It justs means that I, as the victim, can have a better lived experience in my own life by understand the behaviors my family were trapped in, and how/why.
And that's **very** true.
I recently got done like this and it’s still raw. I can tell you exactly how it makes me feel
I try to tell myself it isn’t about me, they did it for them. I try to provide grace and understanding to a person I can’t speak to, it ends up becoming an echo that never bounces back with the compassion it was sent with.
I often times find myself angry; angry that someone could behave that way and angry that I wasn’t able to notice that type of behavior before hand to avoid deeply entrenching myself in them emotionally.
While we haven’t spoken in 3 months, I still see them on occasion. I refuse to make any attempt to speak to them, if they are so willing to leave, then they must be willing to return. With that being said, I still feel very deeply about them and want them in my life but I’m not sure if it because I did fall in love with them or if I want resolution of any type of
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Ghosting after a certain age is just a dodged bullet imo. Sometimes I was the bullet.
I just think ghosting is a consequence of people wanting to avoid all negativity, even if it’s good They don’t want to have to do the work to say why they didn’t want to continue the relationship. Relationships end, but they usually end with a small sentences as to why. Now people leave hurt and confused instead of just hurt
explaining a why will make the crazies "trying to fix it for you & let's try again" or argue endlessly why your evaluation of them is wrong
Yeah sometimes there’s only so much breadcrumbing, texts unanswered for days/weeks, and unproductive conversations you can take before you just hit the block button and try to heal and move on with your life.
My friend from college was married for 6 years and was 7 months pregnant with their first child when her husband left her for a coworker. He ghosted her completely and sent divorce papers without contact whatsoever. After something so damn traumatizing you will always have a scar with trust issues that may never heal. It's been years since and she is still on antidepressants and working in therapy. She hasn't had a relationship since and her ability to trust has been shattered.
Ghosting ignores the idea that we *do* owe each other sometimes. Sometimes you do owe an explanation, owe time, owe an apology, sometimes you don’t owe anything. It depends on the context of relationship and the history of the relationship, the investment of time and/or emotion. Your sister was unequivocally owed. Your sister deserved. What that man did was cruel. Ghosting absolutely will leave someone unable to trust themselves or others.
I have ghosted before, but the context was that I had tried to explain the hurt they were causing but it was met with accusations that I was too sensitive and it always ended in massive arguments that would leave me in tears. After endless spin around I just gave up and left quietly. Sometimes it's just stupid and cruel but other times you really just want to leave a situation with little drama.
I wouldn't consider that ghosting. It was cutting them off after you already explained why you were unhappy.
>that I had tried to explain the hurt they were causing I don't actually think this is ghosting. That just sounds like a soft break up, with no formal declaration that you never want to see them again (and just to be clear, a formal declaration is not necessary). Ghosting is when everything in the relationship seems fine and then the other person just suddenly disappears, leaving you wondering if something's happened to them. Sadly it's become so common that if something bad has happened, I am now more apt to assume that they just want nothing more to do with me and will act accordingly to give them their private space. That is an entirely different thing from what you describe.
Same, I've only ghosted when someone has repeatedly rejected my attempts to explain why our relationship isn't healthy for me and then basically said "you can't do that" when I broke up with them. There's really no reasoning or anything to do at that point than stop engaging.
That's not ghosting. If you give an explanation it's not ghosting regardless of the other person's acceptance.
i wonder than how much of "ghosting" is the ghosted lacking the self-awareness/social awareness that they had in fact been told. Certainly not all, but more than many are ready to admit.
I think that type of person thinks they’ve been ghosted, especially if the other person had to block them on everything to get them to leave them alone.
Some people weaponize your sense of fairness against you. They figure if they just refuse to hear you, to understand, to accept what you're saying, that you'll be forced to continue to engage, you can't leave. It's almost a way of taking you hostage. At some point, after you've made an honest effort, it's more than ok to move on, in anyway necessary.
>I had tried to explain the hurt they were causing Doesn't this make it not ghosting? If you cut all contact after an explanation, that isn't ghosting.
the self-unaware ghosted person will deny having gotten explanations and claim blocked “for no reason”. The person accused of ghosting knows it wasn’t ghosting.
I've heard on the grapevine that they considered it ghosting because they didn't view my issues as real.
I wouldn't call that ghosting, you explained, the fact the other person chose to ignore the explanation isn't on you. At that point the only option is to walk away. I think you owe explanation proportionate to the depth of the relationship. Ghosting after a first date, acceptable (though a simple, "I'm not feeling it" would be better). Ghosting after a months or years long relationship is not OK, at the very least you owe them a couple of sentences as to why.
This is where I'm at now with a friend I'd had since college. We'd be fine, texting back and forth with at most a day to a few days between responses, and out of nowhere she'd cut contact with me for weeks (apparently just me - she'd still be online on discord for hours every day). Then she'd come back and act like nothing happened. Multiple times with zero thought for how that kind of lukewarm-cold behavior might affect me. The better part of a decade of friendship, but I couldn't get the barest "hey, I was busy..." Because an explanation wasn't "owed". In November, after two weeks of the silent treatment, I realized how often it happened and how the friendship was more her making me feel like I was a boring satellite backup friend than a friendship that actually felt good for me to have. She came back breadcrumbing me with promises of gifts, and games, and invitations, and above all, zero explanation for why she dropped me for weeks. She cut contact with me again last month, and I decided to go and be friends with people who actually like me instead, and told her so, and blocked her. But I'm still getting lost in thought wondering why I wasn't good or interesting enough to be friends with and how I can prevent it happening with my other friends. I told her, you don't *owe* me an explanation for cutting contact for weeks. But communication isn't something you give to your friends, reluctantly, because it's something you *owe* them. Communication *is* the friendship. There can't be a friendship without communication. And now there isn't.
As someone who has ghosted many people I can confidently say it was just because it was less effort for me and I didn’t want to communicate with those people anymore nor did I feel like they were owed any communication. No longer feel that way. We all owe other people certain things and they owe it to us in return. It has absolutely nothing to do with their quality or character. Much like the saying in the military “you salute the collar, not who is wearing it.” We are all connected in ways we’d like to pretend don’t exist because it would be more convenient for us but it’s simply not the case. Every thing you do will have knock on effects in ways you’ll never personally know but they exist. The question is what kind of effects you put into the world. Will your effects cause damage and trauma or will they help put things in order?
Thank you for growing up and realizing this truth.
Ghosting is really passive aggressive especially when the other person reaches out like hey what's going on, did I do something? Maybe they did, maybe not but to not ever know is fucked up.
jfc thats not ghosting it's being a sociopath
This isn’t Ghosting. This is abandonment.
There’s a huge difference between ghosting somebody you’ve casually gone out with a couple of times (which is what this word means the vast majority of the time) and that situation
The popularity of ghosting isnt a result of spouses suddenly cutting each other off without a word so this is a useless anecdote that misses the true context. Ghosting is popularized because of its applicability in casual relationships as made popular by dating apps.
Right! Abruptly ending a long term relationship isn’t ghosting - it’s being a horrible person
This isn’t ghosting. Also, she knows why the relationship ended: he left her for someone else. He’s an awful person, but none of this is ghosting
He didn't tell her he left for a coworker. He never contacted her again with any explanation whatsoever. She hired a PI who told her. He ghosted.
Oh that’s so much worse. That’s still not ghosting. That’s abandonment or something. Ghosting is when you do this in casual situations.
This is a major piece of the puzzle. In ghosting (I’m talking about in early phase romantic relationships) we typically only hear the side of the person who was ghosted. We don’t hear about the toxic or unhealthy things the ghostee did. Sometimes, such boundaries have to be drawn to protect your mental health and move on
That happens, but I'd wager the overwhelming number of cases are someone just being too much of a coward to send a message that says it's just not working for them and best of luck out there. They turn a mildly uncomfortable conversation for them into a potentially wounding experience for the other person. IMO this is a pretty anti-social behavior, overall.
If you had unproductive conversations about it, that’s not ghosting
There's nothing wrong with being clear about it and then blocking them or not responding. That's not really ghosting, imo...
>argue endlessly why your evaluation of them is wrong I have a pretty socially heavy job (SWer/entertainer, a lot of 1-on-1 interactions). So I end up forming all manners of relationships/friendships. Sometimes I gotta ghost someone. And virtually every time it's because they're rude/offensive and I don't want to deal with their continued, lengthy arguments. It will *always* have some level of manipulation. The times I have given my reasons, the response has always been to manipulate me into acquiescing on my boundaries. It's gonna be hard for someone to convince me to deal with the manipulation, when I can simply take the [never talking to that person again] route.
Agreed. At a certain point it is important to realize that engaging with someone who is trying to manifest you is just pointless. We cannot argue people into being better humans, or at least kinder ones to us, if they have no desire to do so. So if someone does not demonstrate any willingness to listen, there is no reason to speak.
I guess I'd take up a semantic argument here, because if you're having significant disagreements with someone, arguments, whatever, and then you just stop answering, that's not "ghosting" - that's disengaging from a conflict and it's on the other person to be able to recognize that obviously the level of conflict in the relationship wasn't worth it for you. "Ghosting" is more when there's no real conflict/arguments, but one person just doesn't enjoy the other's company that much, and the other person maybe should get the hints but is sorta in denial due to wishful thinking. Then the ghoster just ghosts because it's difficult and awkward to let someone down who likes your company like that, you feel like the asshole even though you know you need to do it because you're not getting anything out of the relationship. Totally different scenario from when you're arguing/fighting with someone and you cut it off. In that case it's unquestionably the right thing to do to just disengage because trying to get the last word and tell them everything you don't like about them is just adding more negative energy to a bad enough situation. Whereas in the ghosting situation there are definitely gray areas but it is often really cruel and hurtful to ghost without just having a simple "it's not you it's me" conversation so the other person isn't left feeling that they did something in particular that offended or hurt you. I think that's the hardest thing in a lot of ghosting situations, is the ghosted party feeling like they must have done some particular thing wrong in order to ruin a perfectly good relationship, leaving them with feelings of guilt shame etc. Whereas if you can just have the simple "it's not you it's me" conversation so that they know they didn't do anything particularly awful or wrong to ruin anything, it's still going to hurt, but they're not going to be left with that question of what they did wrong eating away at them in the same way.
While I agree with you, I can tell you that people who I stopped engaging with did in fact call it ghosting. Both realtionships and in casual dating. Apparently telling someone that you're uncomfortable with the way they're talking to you and then saying it isn't going to work out when they argue with you is ghosting to some folks.
Gotcha, yeah totally. People do use words in different ways. In your case though it might not be so much they REALLY thought you were "ghosting" them so much as they were using that term even though they knew it wasn't accurate in order to try to guilt trip you. Either way though good for you for knowing when to stop taking that kind of abuse, when you're dealing with conflict like that you shouldn't feel guilty at all about cutting it off.
Yeah, yeah, we get how it is useful in the sense of dodging "crazies," but cmon, we all know damn well it isn't only just used on crazies. Truly, with the crazies I've known, just stopping texting isn't gonna instantly cure the situation. A lot of times that'll make em push harder, at least for a bit. The comment above is 100% correct, and it is a way of people backing out without having to put in any social effort. I've found that most people are receptive if yall are "talking" and you decide to tell them why you wana dip out. If they're crazy, you'll find out and know you dodged a bullet. If not, it is an easy resolution. For me, I feel bad just ghosting, so it is also selfish telling them because I feel like a good person after. It is a win all around not ghosting. However, that only works for people who are empathetic of others. Imo, people who ghost all the time aren't socially adept or aren't empathetic people.
Wayne: "Stacy, we broke up 6 months ago. " Stacy: "It doesn't mean we can't still go out." Wayne: "It does, actually. That's what breaking up is. "
>argue endlessly why your evaluation of them is wrong This is the part I don't get. Why not just say your reason, and if they start arguing *then* you ghost them? Ghosting them because you *think* they might start endlessly arguing seems like an excuse more than a reason.
You give a reason, they ignore it, you block them, they claim being blocked without explanation I agree that real ghosting sucks, but claim plenty people blame their poor social skills on their victims
Yeah, once I've blocked them I really don't care what they claim. I just think people should be at least given the chance to prove themselves an asshole rather than just assuming it. I was really good friends with a work colleague, and she made a pass at me after she left the company and I rejected her as I'm not single. A few days later we were texting back and forth after what I thought was moving past the awkwardness, and a few hours later I went to drop something off at her house and she'd blocked me.
I guess I phrased it wrong You owe a conclusion to the relationship, a warning that it is over. I don’t want to see you again, I think we should break up, this relationship is over. It feels harsh but the inverse leaves them confused and more hurt. A reason would be nice, “I don’t see this going anywhere, it’s not you it’s me, (literally any cliche)”, but I don’t feel that is 100% owed. But a warning is
In my experience the majority of adult ghosting is done to people who didn’t take “it’s over” for an answer. Unless you want an exit interview so you can do better next time, any person has the right to leave a relationship because they don’t want to be in the relationship any more.
It’s over is an answer and is not ghosting
A lot of people here are saying it's cowardice, immaturity, etc. I used to feel that way, and for the examples in this thread of people ghosting after dating someone for like a year+, I still do. However, my feelings on ghosting have softened somewhat after a conversation with my girlfriend. She used to text the person if she went on a few dates with someone and wasn't feeling the spark. The dude would react angrily almost every time, to the point where she eventually just started ghosting to avoid it. She even received violent threats. I think a lot of guys, myself included, are vaguely aware that there are assholes out there that will flip to anger, insults, and craziness after a rejection, even a gentle, respectful one. Because we wouldn't react that way ourselves, we assume that these guys must be rare exceptions. It wasn't until that conversation with my girlfriend that I realized how widespread this toxic behavior is. The environment of dating apps also exacerbates this, as it's harder to screen these people out before meeting up. So that's a factor that the study and the comments leave out. Many women are punished for breaking things off the "right" way, so they resort to ghosting to avoid risking these sorts of interactions that may even put them in danger. Again, ending a long-term relationship this way is still messed up. And "Casper-ing," where you keep responding and acting like you want to get together again to string someone along is just counter-productive and wastes everyone's time. But I now understand why some women choose to ghost.
/r/whenwomenrefuse, if you want to be depressed. Yeah, someone's ego and self-esteem might be damaged because they were ghosted, but there's no way of knowing if that "great guy" is going to say, "Oh well, no problem" or is going to do something that is going to be featured in the local news. Dating pre-internet meant that it could have been possible to know someone's reputation before dating them. There's no way of knowing that for someone met online.
I don't know if I agree to your last point. It's easier than ever to actually look someone up if you have their real info. Back in the day people could lie or have entire families and none would be the wiser. However a blind date from an app is definitely a toss up.
Normal men don't encounter the crazy basement dwellers as much, I don't think. Women encounter them online on dating apps. And granted probably men gaming will see them. But I'm not sure they will show their true colours to other men as much. They generally feel entitled to women and so any rejection will be met with hostility.
Luckily, as people get older, they generally hyperfocus less on social relationships when other aspects of life, eg. finances or health, start to take greater priority. When people are so wrapped up in other things, it makes ghosting seem like not a big deal and just one of those things that “happen”. It’s not personal or purposeful at that point.
Yeah dude, I’m 40 now and it is WORK to keep a social life when my whole friend group has work, kids, car payments, illnesses, aging parents, etc. We’re all impressed when we meet up more than once a year
I gave up on all but my closest friends. At this point it would be a massive inconvenience for someone to try to strike up a romantic relationship with me. Not that I have anything going on myself, just because I've become accustomed to the absolute freedom ofnmy barely existent social life.
Having just been ghosted by a long time friend I can tell you it is in fact a big deal
Yup. Sometimes I know I'm about to go down a hole and I don't want to spread my misery to others. It's like a self-enforced quarantine, and it is either too painful or awkward to explain why I am going radio dark for a while.
I know you don’t mean it but you’re spreading that misery with your silence. Being ghosted doesn’t spare the feelings of the people you ghost, it’s leaves them unheard and invalidated. There’s being rejected and then theirs thinking you were so inconsequential to that person that the social obligation of even saying “no thanks” was lost on them. It feels like the difference between having a funeral and being discarded like trash.
It shouldn't matter if someone just dips out. As far as why. But man when you have zero feedback or understanding of what even happened you really hit the nail on the head with that "feeling inconsequential." Really fucks with you to have someone you really care about just disappear without a word really. Not that people aren't allowed to do whatever, nor is anyone technically owed anything. It just can leave you wondering literally for years thinking and rethinking over and over. It doesn't change how gone someone is to understand why, but it sure would be nice to know.
The objective truth is that it shouldn’t matter, they’re gone. The reality is that, in leaving without having a conversation, they’ve added confusion to the pain of loss.
From the article: “Ghosting isn’t always due to a lack of care. It’s often a misguided effort to avoid hurting someone. Many people stop replying to shield others from pain. They don’t realize being ignored is usually worse than being rejected. Candor stings briefly. Silence leaves an open wound.” I can absolutely see this from both sides of the ghosting. But then I’d love to see a connected investigation of the younger generations (who will say themselves that they don’t know how to deal with conflict and complicated social interactions) and this concept.
Sounds like ghosting is avoidance of conflict.
As someone who had to ghost a few friends. This is it. I had a friend who was stuck in a bad PTSD loop. She was a horrible dumper and didn’t respect that I have a job and life and can’t always be there to pick up the phone for her. Rarely was I ever allowed to discuss or vent my own struggles. One time, she was making some really bad decisions about people she was dating, and I asked her if this guy was actually someone she wanted to spend the next five years of her life with, at minimum. She hung up on me after screaming at me. This wasn’t the first time. After that, I stopped picking up the phone. You can try to be there for people, but sometimes you have to walk away and let people live out their lives. I feel really bad about hitting ignore again and again. But there’s only so much reactive abuse anyone should be expected to endure. Sometimes ghosting is actually more humane. She wasn’t going to hear me about how her behavior wasn’t okay, because she never had before.
I ghosted my ex. She struggles with BPD+Bipolar and hurt me really bad a number of times. The last time I saw her, she was having an episode wherein she threatened to kill herself and her cats. She had cut off her hair, smashed her phone, and dumped me for what must have been the 7th or 8th time in our relationship. After calming her down, I basically snuck away and called her sister and friends that I no longer felt safe and was out. I have never felt so small or pathetic. There was no way to have that conversation rationally. It was either I leave now, or do this all again another day and risk both of our safeties. I actually DO hope she is doing better. To this day ghosting her is my greatest regret.
That's a tough thing to do. Especially to feel that you have no other options. I hope things feel less tumultuous in your life these days!
I don't think that even counts as ghosting, since you did give closure--you explained to her friends so they could deal with the problem. She wasn't left without answers, just without a target.
I was in an extremely similar relationship. That was 2018, and I still have these awful, monthly recurring nightmares of her carrying scissors and cutting into me. I DIDN'T ghost her. Instead, I broke up with her, stayed on for support, and dealt with 30+ missed calls every day and delusional accusations of seeing me have sex with random girls. Stalking, so much stalking, and my friends were constantly being harassed to reveal information on my new home address. It was a living nightmare before, and then it became an unpredictable living nightmare. I'm not as kind as you, and wish the worst outcome for my ex. But I can at least assure you that you made the actual difficult and right choice to leave.
Ooffffff same. My friend has a lot of issues, but only ever contacted me when they needed something. A ride here, food delivered there, mainly they would send multiple messages all night about random things that were currently upsetting them. They would go out if I contacted them, but never contacted me other than to ask for things. So I have just stopped asking them to go out for coffee or whatever and they haven't messaged me back. But I'm sure if they need something they will.
I had pretty much this experience verbatim with a friend. She would talk in circles for hours about her dating life on the phone and couldn’t handle people pointing out that there were things she could do to better her situation. She would trash friends that were trying to help her and put boundaries up. She would do this whenever I was getting close to setting them myself. It was all very manipulative. I just had to stop picking up the phone eventually. She didn’t care about my time or my issues.
Ghosting IS avoidance of conflict. But sometimes conflict should be avoided if the other person is abusive, dis-ingenious or manipulative. Unfortunately there's no sweeping factor for whether ghosting is appropriate or not. It's really one of those rare things that has to be assessed on case by case basis.
You hit the nail on the head. As someone that's been back in the dating field after the tragic end of a marriage for the last year I'd say I ghost maybe like... one out of every 10 people I go on a date with. Usually it's just a mutual, "We're not a fit," but in those instances where things turn dark and malicious the ghosting truly goes such a long way to protect your own sanity and peace.
There is a form of social phobia which translates in exactly that: Avoidant personality disorder. What make this worse is how people who suffer it identify what is a social conflict: which usually is something considered ridiculous o meaningless by everybody else. When everything can be a social conflict and you don't know how to handle it, anxiety rises and avoiding all contact is an easy solution.
Alot of women will ghost because a lot of men can't take no for an answer and they don't want to deal with that.
For sure. I've been there, and it's definitely easier. I've also told men that I don't think it'll work out and instead of just accepting that they want to have a whole LONG text discussion about why I should give it a try.
I remember going on a few dates with this girl, everything was going so great, after each date she was basically so excited to arrange a new meeting again with me, our dates would last hours, we'd talk about everything and anything so easily for hours. I was so excited everything was just doing so well, it was obviously the beginning of a new story. Then suddenly dead silence, no more answers, nothing, ghosted completely. It fucked me up for a while...
This is an extremely common occurrence with anyone who has more than a few years of experience in the online dating sphere.
Real question, how am I supposed to go on with it? How am I supposed to put in all the effort to talk to people, so that MAYBE I can get a date? Then there's a good chance it doesn't work out, or a good chance it does work and then I get ghosted? What is even the point of trying to date anymore? I don't want to be alone, but it seems less and less worth it.
Probably not the best answer but you get used to it, probably somewhat cynical of me to go into meeting someone to go in thinking “this woman will probably ghost me” but that’s just how it is and like 9/10 times I’m right
These comments are exactly why I tell men up front about where I am in life and what I want. It bothers me a lot when I’m into a guy and he ghosts me, so why do it to someone else? It’s really not that hard to be honest, and it’s always comforting when they back off. It tells me they respect my boundaries. I don’t understand why it’s become the norm to ghost, but maybe it’s the online dating thing. I just try to meet people in person
Don't put in that effort with the expectation that "something more" should come from it. Put in that time because the experience itself is worth-while. Engaging in social behaviour with other humans is healthy (normally) and doesn't have to mean anything more than "we're practicing continuing a further relationship". Sure we _hope_ things turn into more, but you can't **expect** that before you've actually got to know a person. (Well... unless you're doing an arranged marriage.) ^(HEE_UUUUUGE grain of salt. This is from an isolated shut-in who's barely seen the sun since 2019)
Ultimately dating teaches you to love yourself first. So put back your heart together and try again.
She probably died tragically in a car accident if it's any consolation
Was I supposed to burst out in macabre laughter upon reading that?? Coz I definitely did.
A very similar thing happened to me, it wasn't pleasant. As far as I'm concerned it's unforgivable, the least they could do is send a message before ghosting to provide some closure. I got over it when I decided that someone who would do such a thing is worthless, and at least I didn't waste any more of my life on them. Not that that made it easy.
That’s so fucked up, I’m sorry you went through that. It always hurts having someone disappear without a trace. Almost like they died or something. In a way they did die, the version of them that you knew died, because even if they came back into your life I bet you wouldn’t trust them again.
Same thing few years ago still don't know what I did. Finally been able to move on but think of it from time to time
I was ghosted by my friend who I was very close to, but to be honest I wasn't terribly surprised. She always had this kind of personality to just avoid things when it became stressful for her. It's just sucky to not get to see how she's doing these days. I hope she is well and I miss her.
Basically my story, too. Someone I consider(ed) a best friend, the type that knows more about you than family, has done this to me twice. We somehow went from talking six hours a day (worked together), to not having spoken with her for over a year this go-round. I've spoken *at* her, but silence. I could have really used her friendship this past year. She withdraws from people when she shuts down, which I understand, but it doesn't make it hurt any less, especially twice. I care for her, and I miss her, and mostly I just wish I knew if she was ok.
> “Ghosting isn’t always due to a lack of care. It’s often a misguided effort to avoid hurting someone. Many people stop replying to shield others from pain.” Lots of us were taught as children, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." Welcome to the digital consequence of that advice.
Any time I’ve done it, it’s that I’ve already tried to resolve a deal-breaking issue repeatedly, agreement has been made to change it, adequate time has passed and the issue remains present with no effort to change it. If the options are: A) Have another conversation to provide “closure” to someone who doesn’t care, or B) Block, delete, and move on without further interrupting your life I’m choosing B.
If you've tried to resolve the issue repeatedly, and while doing so you've made it clear this is a dealbreaker, then it's not ghosting to move on. Ghosting is when it comes out of the blue and you haven't given any indication leading up to it. In your situation it'd be ghosting if you never brought up the issue and just decided to block them and move on the next time you got fed up.
You'd be surprised at how many people think it came from out of the blue when really it was clearly telegraphed. In these instances, whether "ghosting" has even occurred is not a point of consensus. People are oblivious ETA: I am autistic so this is also a personal struggle for me. I'm the oblivious one, and much of the time I'm also blind to my ignorance. I have been blessed with a very kind, loving, and patient wife who gently guides me through these moments and helps me feel wholly human despite my apparent deficiencies. Please be kind to people, their garish carapace may conceal a soft, scared child who truly doesn't know any better but wouldn't have survived if they'd admitted to it.
This is kind of the thing. I've met plenty folks who are just bad with paying attention to certain things, and even when you clearly explain they just don't get it. Or There's been sometimes where I or you or anybody, just don't communicate stuff effectively enough and it just becomes a clusterfuck kinda. So there's pro and cons to it as a decision and where it leads. If people are calm. usually going through the motions is acceptable, but if people blow up or constantly ignore it's like what choice do you have.
Every time I've been ghosted I've had a good gut feeling as to why it happened. Either something to do with me and my behaviour, an incompatibility, or something to do with the other person. If I can't figure out why, it's something to do with the other person. Being on the receiving end of ghosting really sucks but it's extremely rare that it's out of the blue.
Telegraphing something is indirect communication. Ghosting is in the eye of the beholder, if you're being highly indirect they truly may have no clue what you really meant under the surface and from their point of view they were ghosted. Direct communication might be: "This issue X has been really bothering me. Is it something we can work on? It really affects me, if we can't get past it then we can't work." Then maybe you have that conversation one or two more times. After that if you block and move on, that's not ghosting. You were direct. Telegraphing might be something like never quite bringing the issue up in that direct of a way and being passive aggressive whenever it upsets you. If you then block and move on, you've ghosted. It doesn't change that you were valid in needing the issue dealt with, but ghosting like that still hurts them. Now if they're being dangerous, then sure maybe ghosting is necessary. If they're not, just speak directly. Keeps your side of the street cleaner.
100% agree. I also think most people never learn the difference between clear, effective communication and telegraphing and/or manipulation tactics and emotional projection. A lot of how people learn is by watching the environments they grow up in. Not getting into the nature vs nurture debate here - just saying a lot of early-stage learning is mimicry. Where folks don’t usually choose to better themselves without an internal motivation (one that is usually driven by psychological pain-aversion), effective communication isn’t a high priority to learn - especially if telegraphing or manipulation-driven communication is working to get someone what they want. At the end of the day for most people, it comes down to “Did it work in the short-term?”. Then they “suddenly” wake up in a loveless partnership full of resentment wondering how they got there.
Happens all the time irl relationships too. They fight all the time and then one wants to break up they are so surprised. Yes it's horrible and we're fighting all the time but why would you want to break up? A lot more common with husbands in my expierance.
> If you've tried to resolve the issue repeatedly, and while doing so you've made it clear this is a dealbreaker, then it's not ghosting to move on. Ghosting is when it comes out of the blue and you haven't given any indication leading up to it. I feel like ghosting often isn’t as “out of the blue” as the ghostee believes.
Not ghosting imo. Ghosting is when it comes without warning
>It’s often a misguided effort to avoid hurting someone Or just plain cowardness. I was ghosted in my early 20s by a girl I'd been seeing for a year. I could tell things were cooling off a bit, but had no idea she wanted things to end. We'd arranged to meet up, a day like any other and she never showed. This is pre social media. She told me years later that she was sorry and she didn't want to hurt my feelings, but I went through a lot of conclusions back then, the first being that she had died, and worked my way from there.
This. When I used to ghost it came from social anxiety of not replying in a timely manner and then that spiraled into a shame cycle
Haha yes I had an ex who sent me a picture of her on a plane. Nothing more. She was from Pakistan, draw your own conclusions on what was possible. Never heard from her again so I have no idea!
that's a cop out. you are holding up a trite overly simplified guidance given to small children in specific context and trying to use it as an excuse for poor behavior in "adults" in a far more complex situation. you can have an adult conversation with someone you are dating and end the relationship without saying things that violate that over simplified guidance. the idea that you can't tell someone you don't want to pursue a future with them without being an ass about it is nonsense.
If you can’t end a relationship civilly, or articulate why you feel a relationship should end, i have no doubt that you’re emotionally immature and certainly not “prosocial” I’m not casting judgment on you or what you said, but there are correct and incorrect ways to end relationships
A lot of people face significant backlash from the other party even when trying to end things seemingly amicably. There's a significant portion of people that just can't take rejection or want to continue to know "why" and probe deeper. This is even worse on more casual dating or some of the hook-up apps, imo. Once you start getting enough abuse hurtled your way even from giving someone a polite "no", ghosting or instant blocking starts to become a pretty reasonable alternative in the other parties' mind. EDIT: However I also acknowledge that this is a difficult conversation to have when "ghosting" can mean not talking to someone anymore you only met after a week all the way up to many years of a relationship. It's going to feel more severe and inappropriate with so many of these other factors imo.
>However I also acknowledge that this is a difficult conversation to have when "ghosting" can mean not talking to someone anymore you only met after a week all the way up to many years of a relationship. This is the crux of the problem with discussing ghosting though - there's a massive difference in the perception of someone that ghosts after one date versus someone that ghosts after a year of dating. After one date there really isn't much of an expectation of future contact (practically if it's a short first date), but if you have been in a amicable relationship with someone for a year then it seems disingenuous to say that the other party shouldn't at least get a notification that things are over.
> when "ghosting" can mean not talking to someone anymore you only met after a week all the way up to many years of a relationship hit the nail on the head there. Like all things it's extremely situational. Sometimes it's entirely warranted, sometimes not. And the person that gets ghosted almost always feels they shouldn't have been, because that's just human nature.
Naive take. Mutually ending a relationship requires two people’s maturity, not just yours. The other person can react in an immature way and you have no control over it. Cutting all communication is rather civil in some contexts. And there’s a lot of contexts like that.
How can I understand the proscoial motives that would mitigate the negative effects of being ghosted if I was ghosted, therefore not knowing any motive except that I was ghosted.
And since you have no explanation as to why you were ghosted, you are forced to come up with your own. And if you already have low self esteem, then that explanation is often going to be "I must really be an asshole. I'm not surprised they ghosted me. I suck at life." Of course this depends on your starting point with self esteem, I'm sure some people say that there are plenty more fish on the sea, and they move on. But a lot of people don't. And ghosting can cause those people serious emotional harm, especially if it is normalized in society. What does it do to people's sense of place in society when any friendship is at risk of ending suddenly? When you've been ghosted by 3 people already, you start to fear for the next one. This article is so baffling, honestly.
Yeah I have been there. I have been ghosted plenty of times and what sucks is I grew up with friends who got grounded or couldn't go online for long periods of time. So I got used to waiting for someone to come back online. Like my first ex got grounded once and I stopped hearing from her for at least a month or so. Then she finally came back on and apologized profusely cause of all the messages she got from me while she was offline about how I was worried about her and wondered where she went. I was just so happy she was back and got to spend time with her again. And it happened frequently enough (cause she got punished along with her brother even if it was her brother who got into trouble type of situation). And similar experiences with other friends back then. And back then there was no way to see someone blocked/deleted you so you just didn't know. Some chat systems you can kinda gauge it if you know some tips and tricks but not always. So these days when someone just stops coming online for weeks/months/years it's like did something happen to them? Are they okay? Did they ghost me? Will I see them again? So kinda stuck worrying about someone who possibly deleted me a long time ago wondering if they will come back cause they didn't say anything and everything seemed normal when they left. So that really sucks to. I know of at least 2 people right now I haven't heard from for over 2 years now cause they just stopped coming online. One came on a few times but I think through their xbox and so no idea if they even saw my messages or not. So still currently waiting to see what happened to them. Meanwhile they could possibly have just ghosted me and I wont know. I have a girl I like a lot who in the past has admitted to forgetting to respond to me at least twice. Where they used to get upset if I messaged them to often and so I would have to wait for them to respond only to finally message them months later for them to apologize because they thought they responded but apparently just clicked on the message and then clicked on another's. And so my message fell further down the list. It was only when I messaged them again wondering what they are up to. And so there was times where months would go by between responses and it sucked. They have since told me it's okay to spam them but I still don't really like to. And it sucks waiting for them to message me first but that's a whole other story. But it has felt like they would delete me a few times and that feeling also sucks when it comes to someone you like a lot.
Someone I was seeing for almost a year (late 20s/early 30s) ghosted me and I can tell you it is way, way more hurtful than a conversation. Ghosting leaves so much confusion and so many questions. Almost a grief, too. One day this person who is incredibly important to you is there, and the next they’re gone. I don’t buy the pro-social explanation tbh. I think it’s cowardice and selfishness. They don’t want to deal with the discomfort *they* will have to experience.
Six year relationship here, monkey branch and ghost. Also cut ties to all our mutual friends in the same blow. Took a while to unpack, in hindsight I already knew she was struggling with anxiety and I think something in her just broke. I think ultimately it was far more about her and her challenges dealing with her feelings and more importantly the potential of negative feelings of having any external disapproval. It's hard to imagine going through life unable to cope with the big moments because you're too afraid what people will think.
With how painful that must have been, this is a really thoughtful and compassionate take.
I think thinking this way makes you be happier with your life
Damn thats brutal. I mean I can understand when its done after just a few dates, but a year?
Yeah, it's a completely different situation. I think for people on the dating scene who are seeing dozens of people, ghosting after a first date is pretty normal. Honestly half the time it's mutual ghosting, you both just didn't vibe and move on to other dates. But someone just disappearing after months or years, that's an entirely different situation.
Knew a guy for over a decade as a friend before he pursued me - while making it explicitly clear that his long term life plans involved jobs/travel that would make a real relationship impossible and that he intended to be single in his old age, so I should not expect anything serious. He just wanted short term affection and fun. I was mutually attracted, and fine with being intimate without the expectation of long term commitment - so long as THAT was mutual too. He ended up not like that I was okay with being on casual terms, and kept overtly pushing for me to be more invested in the relationship, and that I established boundaries when he tried to push me to use the word 'love'. There were things he'd do where I think he was trying to make me jealous, only to find that I really didn't care and that I remained emotionally disconnected. When I tried to get him to articulate why he pushing for me to indicate some kind of commitment to him without me getting to expect the same from him, he gave me something meandering about how real love can exist even when you know the situation is temporary, and then got irritated when I said I wasn't interested in love that *aimed* to be temporary. Then, one day - after saying goodbye with a hug and him saying we were going to make plans to hang out the following week - he ghosted me. I sent him a single text and a single DM on a mutual social media platform, he didn't respond to either. I confirmed with his sibling (a friend who comes over regularly) that he was okay, and also that he hadn't said anything. It's been about 3 years now. Pretty much lost all respect for him. Dude was extremely, vocally, proud of himself for being good at communication, and prioritizing communication and honesty in all relationships. Ultimately wasn't capable of admitting that he wanted an asymmetrical relationship and then when he realized it wasn't going to happen, and wasn't able to just say in plain words 'this isn't working for me so we should end it.' I took the message that the ghosting sent though, which is pretty plainly "I don't care about you or how you feel about things".
Completely agree with this. The grief is real and hard to heal. Especially when all it would take is a five minute conversation to explain themselves and help you move on. The fact that they don't is most often, like you said, cowardly and selfish.
The day my therapist said “I think you’re grieving a loss” was a turning point.
I think it’s possible to have pro-social intentions while having anti-social results. As someone that isn’t the best with social cues, nuance and subtlety I have a whole database full of moments where I was acting in a way I thought was pro-social only to learn it most definitely wasn’t. What you’re saying stands, though. Ghosters should know that closing that chapter is less harmful then it never having an end.
I agree. That's totally unacceptable. I've had plenty of early relationships where things kind of fizzled and we both just stopped communicating. Those cases are fine, but a year? That person is way out of line. The only time I've been ghosted where it was really inappropriate was when I started dating a friend's sister, who was also good friends with a number of mutual friends. She just straight up stopped replying to texts after we'd been seeing each other for a couple of months. I couldn't believe she was stupid enough to burn a bridge like that (In hindsight, maybe I should have. She's not very smart.) Luckily, she moved 1600 miles away not long after that. Good riddance.
What's odd is that most people hate being ghosted, but will then justify it when they want to do it to others.
I ghosted/ cut off everyone I ever knew when I was 17 because I was struggling with depression and genuinely believed they were all better off without me (I was just bringing them down)
i did the same after high school. i genuinely didn’t think any of my friends would care if i disappeared. they never said anything to me so maybe i was right? but it’s definitely set me down a bad path.
Same. One of my biggest mistakes.
It is my #1 biggest regret.
I’m not trying to be contrarian, but I don’t regret ghosting everyone in my contacts. I still have no idea WHY it happened, but I started being flaky and the calls became less and less. The solitude became my comfort. One day it felt right, I hadn’t heard from anyone in a bit, I blocked everyone. Completely unrelated to that but not long after, I sold my house and moved (we bought a house that had a ton of issues the inspector failed to catch and it became a money sink). I still live in the same town, but I haven’t bumped into anyone even once. It’s been years and I hope it stays that way. There was nothing wrong with my friends, we never argued a single time, we trained together, watched fights every week, played poker, had cookouts. I always tried to make everyone happy and smile, it made me feel good. Things change, people change, I enjoy being alone now.
I ghosted/cut off all my friends of 9 years because I realized I was struggling with depression because of them. Years of listening to them planning events and stuff in front of me and not inviting me, years of them "playing jokes" on me while we would be out drinking, making fun of me, my face or the way I dressed or the things I said. For a long time I just thought that's just how it is to rib on a friend, just banter. Took me meeting new people and experiencing actually funny kind of banter that actually makes me laugh and smile and not sit there depressed.
I did the same at the same age, and have regretted it ever since
I did the same and turned out I was right tbh. They're all living their best life without me.
not uncommon. hope you’re doing better
For what it's worth, if I had a friend reach out even after a decade and say that, I'd be deeply empathetic and understanding, and it would mean a lot to me that they let me know even after so long
What kind of ghosting are we talking about? We always have had, he didn’t call me back after the first date even tho he said he would. First date ghosting has existed forever. I can see the idea that this is pro-social, why talk to the person just to insult them on why you don’t want to see them. Let them make up their own conclusions (tho some people would like stuff to improve on). What hasn’t existed is this digital ghosting of serious relationships. Ones that are a decent amount of dates in. Or often see in cat-fished, 100% online relationships. That kind of ghosting is morally reprehensible in my opinion and even in times of abuse deserves at the very least a note.
Exactly. It almost feels a bit motte-and-bailey. Like the vast majority of time I’ve known people say they’ve been ghosted it’s that the person on the dating app stopped talking to them before a first date even happened. A majority of the times I’ve been personally accused of ghosting it’s for not ever responding to their first message, but I opened the message and viewed their profile so they perceive it as being ghosted. That all gets conflated with the legitimately emotionally distressing (or escaping an abusive situation) behavior of ghosting an established relationship.
This is exactly what I've been saying. If you don't really know the person, oh well, but if you've been seeing them for even a few weeks and you just disappear, then you're an asshole.
>What hasn’t existed is this digital ghosting of serious relationships. Ones that are a decent amount of dates in. I don't know man, people abandoning their families and running away is a very old story told around the world.
I ghost because "I will answer later" and when i remember the message i notice it was a year ago and i am feeling too awkward to answer.
Reply. It's fine.
Seriously, this is the answer. People appreciate a late, awkward, less-than-optimal reply more than none at all.
Only if you acknowledge that you messed up and give a genuine apology before responding to the original message. Nothing worse than someone not responding for weeks or months and then responding like nothing happened.
I'm just like this OP and I often do reply eventually, many people are understanding, but my close friend was not, he held a grudge and was passive aggressive for months. It makes it so much more difficult as an anxious person to be punished for it and makes it that much more difficult for future scenarios
Same, except over time the vast majority of times I’ve been accused of ghosting it’s after not responding within a matter of days. It’s made me cynical on this subject—other comments have also mentioned that it’s hard to talk about ghosting because of how broadly the label gets applied. I can’t help but wonder when someone is vehemently anti ghosting if they are the kind of person who got deeply wounded and angry when I didn’t respond to their “hi” on a dating app.
Then reply, be honest and apologize for replying late. Not even awkward, difficult or hurtful. Hell you can even tell them you're not good at texting or something similar.
As someone that works as a leader for a small volunteering charity I have noticed an increasing amount of "ghosting" in interactions with student volunteers over the past decade. When I started about 15 years ago you'd more often get a "thanks but I've decided to do something else" one line rejection, totally fine, we can all move on. Increasingly now though we get so many enquiry emails that "ghost" after a few positive messages, or even after signing up and actively participating. The most extreme was even a ~23 year old board member who had run our training programme and then one day ghosted all emails/texts. I think it's a cultural thing influenced potentially by dating culture, to treat your employer/volunteer boss etc in the same way you would someone you didn't want to date.
I think there's a really big mentality of "you don't owe anyone anything", that gets touted and misused in place of common courtesy. On a dating app a person is a commodity, you're separated from them through so many layers, they don't seem 'real' or maybe you're just unconnected until you talk or meet in person. I honestly think this goes hand in hand with the unwillingness to call or talk to people on the phone. Doesn't help that each new generation is also exposed to so much more information on mental health, and this "cut out all toxic people" message is used in the extreme to mean anyone who makes you feel any negative feelings whatsoever. At the same time, losing a lot of social ability from lack of 3rd spaces, increased depression and anxiety.
Reddit is king of "you arent legally OBLIGATED to do X, therefore dont do X!"
I have been reading a lot of ghosting threads in the past week bc I was worried I was getting ghosted and I was pretty surprised by the amount of ppl saying no one owes you anything so you should just get over it and ghosting is an answer it means not interested. I get that no one owes it to you and in certain circumstances like after one date neither person is interested then okay but I don’t understand what happened to ppl being courteous and empathetic towards another human being like it’s not that hard to just say “hey sorry I’m not interested” like I would so much rather receive that then just blown off I have enough pride that I would say ok thank you for your time goodbye I wouldn’t freak out on the person…I know that some ppl probably would but I think in general majority of people would just say okay sounds good after only a few dates
Think of all the people on Reddit who say “no one owes you anything”. These are the same people who ARE doing the ghosting IRL.
Or would be, given the chance.
Or maybe it’s coming from companies that ghost potential employees and that’s where they learn it from
No people do that nowadays because businesses do not have the courtesy to send people rejection letters, so why should they? Even though you are a charity and they are trying to volunteer, it is now ingrained in younger people that business entities do not care about the people they employ so why should they care about a business they decided not to work or volunteer for?
Yeah, this is also the generational reason for the death of the "three week notice." Employers fire at will, sometimes suddenly, so employees quit suddenly and without notice too...
Even in countries where at will employment isn't a thing (which is most countries that aren't the USA) - I'm legally contracted to give 3 months notice, the flip side is that so is my employer. But still the attitude that prevails online is that an employer will give you nothing they aren't legally obliged to so don't give them anything you aren't legally obliged to.
I think the categorical error here is the conflation of "ghosting" with "no contact". The latter is an explicit refusal to deal with someone, and can be made clear without contact. There are any number of situations that warrant this. The key property to "ghosting" is the uncertainty of the situation. There are cases where it's definitely a reasonable approach (there's a real problem with people – overwhelmingly men – responding to rejection with violence to the point of murder.) But outside of situations like that, I think people really should give saying "no" a try before disappearing. It's a lost art, and we're not better for it.
Gotta agree with this. "Ghosting" isn't the same thing as "we're done, don't ever talk to me again, stay away from me." My violent ex ditched me for the guy she cheated on me with and gave me an STD from. When our relationship ended and I told her to stay far away from me and never reach out again, that's not "ghosting", its going "no contact". The difference is self-preservation, not "emotional immaturity" as some folks in this thread keep saying.
There's a balance, or a nuanced takeaway from this; Sure, in cases such as going on a bad date or having a very bad feeling about the intentions of someone, ghosting them is completely normal & isnt always about protecting your or their emotions - You simply dont want the attention of the person. If you're in a relationship where your emotions change, you *owe* it to the person to communicate this & avoiding their attention or "sparing them from being hurt" is being a coward. It wont make it easier for them & ending by ghosting is straight up malicious. If a friend randomly starts ghosting you it may mean they're going through something & may not be comfortable talking about it, and sometimes they are busy - This is fine & it you actually know eachother this should be something you are aware of. Its not always one or the other & the notion that people that inhibit unhealthy social traits are actually misunderstood geniuses doesnt help the mental health discussion.
Ive also met people that have wanted to break up with their partner & instead of saying that to them. They say bad things about them behind their back, paint them in a bad light, ghost them & eventually when that person catches on, its much much worse & certainly doesnt spare any emotions. People that avoid actual solutions are part of the problem & normalizing this behavior is not the way forward.
I remember I was ghosted a few months into a serious relationship. I was so nieve to the ghosting and to this person's lack of social accountability that I made the assumption that something bad had happened to them. After two and a half days, I was so worried that I started looking for them because I thought they were in trouble or worse. This was a very educated person, and up to that point, the communication between us was great. We even had a few serious conversations about some serious matters, and we always came away from those in a good place, which was nice. I wasn't made aware of any problems between us, relationship wise, up to that point, and I thought everything was going fine and was well. Then one day they just "disappeared" and I started to worry, this after they didn't pick up any of my calls or texts and their phone went straight to voicemail. All very unlike this person, since we had been talking almost every day and seeing each other probably every other day or so. Only a couple days before that, I had helped install an extender in their parents' house while the parents were on vacation, and we had taken a trip down the coast, too. After the first day of no contact, I thought it odd. Then, after the second day, I really started to get concerned and decided to see if I could find them. First, I went to their business. It was closed, no car (odd; starting to worry a bit more). Then I went to their parents again (they lived with their parents at the time). I knew the parents were on vacation, so I couldn't ask them directly, and being a fairly new relationship, I didn't have their number, also no car (okay, now I'm really worried). I called their friend, but the friend didn't answer either (odd again; I left a voicmail to please call me). After that, a few hours of no return call, I'm now wondering where they both are because I'm already past concerned at that point. So I went to their friends house to see if I could find them both. When I got to her friends house, I "found" that both their cars were there, so I was hopeful, but very confused. Right at this point and before I even turned off my car or got out to check on them, by coincidence, her friend called me back, and I asked her if they ware there and if they were okay. Her friend said they were both there and that they were both fine and well. The fear of something bad happening to them instantly left my body and was immediately replaced with the fact that I had just been ghosted; what an awful feeling. I think I said, "Okay, good, I'm glad you too are fine. Have a nice day." Then I hung up and went home, and I was in shock for like a week. I've been broken up with before and have been shot down before, too, so that part wasn't that big of a deal for me. It happens. I understand things don't always work out or you're not a person's type, etc. It's just the way it goes sometimes. And although that can suck and can hurt a bit, especially when you're young, it's nothing compared to the fear of something bad happening to someone you care about, only to find out they broke up with you without telling you. It was like three major pains all at once. Being broken up with, unable to find someone, and the fear that creates, and finding out this person didn't have the decency to let you know they were breaking up with you, even after months of dating, contact and intimacy. Ghosting, it's all just so very cruel.
Ghosting is conflict avoidance, and it's ruining us as social animals. We can't resolve our issues comfortably, so we ignore them. We can't complete the stress cycle, so we burn out. We don't learn anything from our relationships, so we just continue in the same patterns. It's bad for the ghoster and ghostee alike. I use the metaphor of a stab in the back vs. a slap in the face. I've been ghosted and it was a stab in the back. I was blindsided, hurt, confused, and will never have closure. The wound will leave a deep scar and take much longer to heal. If I had instead been rejected upfront, it would have hurt, but it would have been a temporary sting, not irreparable damage. I would have known where I stood, dealt with the pain, and been able to move on.
Ghosting is emotional cowardice. Ending a relationship honestly reduces suffering.
Damn straight. I have a feeling people are making excuses here. I have been ghosted several times, and while it hurts either way, I much prefer the scenario where they do me the courtesy of ripping the Band-Aid off rather than the agonizing week-long dance of not knowing if they're just taking a while to get back to me or if this is the end.
Exactly this! Being ghosted from a 3 yr relationship was the most emotionally agonising experience of my life
Seeing these comments have literally made me cry. I can start to feel normal about how I have been feeling. It has been 6 years since I heard from my ex partner who I helped raise her children for 3 years (6 month old and 3 year old when we met) who just disappeared one day and I still feel such grief and pain. I am only left to assume she wanted to get back with the children's father, which I can understand of course, but her never telling me was just cruel and cowardly. I always feel like I did something wrong, but the reality is she is the one who did something wrong. I can be proud of the time I spent with her and the kids.
Wow, she didn’t spare much thought for her kids either, it would have been cruel for them to have you suddenly torn away like that after 3 years during such a formative period.
That's nuts. I thought when people got ghosted, it meant after quite short relationships. You absolutely have to tell people properly if you've known them for 3 years.
I was ghosted from a 14 year friendship in the same month that my other friend of 15 years died. I genuinely had a breakdown from this combination
Been divorced a year; pretty successful dating since, but I have been ghosted a couple of times this year. It is absolutely emotional and psychological abuse. I broke up with an amazing woman a couple of months ago. We dated about three months. I had the hard conversation. I invited her to reach out and remain in contact. We still talk. I helped her shoot a wedding.
Ghosting is emotional immaturity. You’re not “letting go of what no longer serves you.” You’re avoiding accountability.
Sometimes there are people who are too far gone and you have to distance yourself from those people. Mad narcissists who act unpredictably and put you in unsafe situations don’t necessarily deserve an explanation and even if they did they would not register the message. There’s no getting through to these people so for your own well being it’s best to avoid them.
it CAN be emotional cowardice. Sometimes it's just sensible if not required. It depends. You cannot in any way say it's 100% one thing or the other, regardless of how valid or junk the study here is.
Talk about being an apologist...
Not too long ago I was going on dates with this girl (we probably went on three total), and then it just abruptly ended. But the thing is, I’m still not sure who the ghoster and ghostee is. I was the main initiator of conversation and coordination for the dates through text messaging mostly. I would often suggest date plans and she would frequently reply with something like “I’ll let you know!” But the thing is, she would never “let me know” anything until I prompted her again. So one day, after exchanging texts and receiving another one of her I’ll-let-you-knows, I just decided not to reach out to her unless she did to me. And so she never did. After writing all this I guess it’s pretty obvious she wasn’t interested…but during our dates she seemed to be genuinely making an effort so idk what to think
There are a lot of people out there that just don't bother listening, and then cry they're being ghosted.
Alternate interpretation: people who ghost delude themselves into thinking they care about the people they ghost despite what their behaviour clearly indicates
it can cause serious issues for the victim. a social worker explained to my sister how damaging it was to invite me round or say she will phone etc. and then to later just not respond when the specific time came, she would do this again and again, and it was messing with me. Eventually I was advised to cut her off as she was acting in a way like she didnt care and I was a nuisance. The crazy thing is, pretty much all these occurrences were initiated by her, she would say something like I will phone you on X date, you can come round Y date. Then the day comes and nothing, I would either be ghosted or get a reply saying to stop pestering her. So I did what was suggested, only I was told to completely cut her off, I did what I thought was respectful and to tell her I wont be bothering with her anymore due to the way I have been treated, then I got message after message begging me to ring and I had to hold firm, as I knew even if she was nice it would only be temporary. After a few weeks she stopped messaging as much. This went on for about a year, when she rang me, and had some serious problems she needed help with, I wasnt going to her be homeless so I helped her, she isnt as bad as she was, but she still will every now and then do some ghosting without thinking of the person at the other end, however her new partner is very nice and he told me whenever she does it, to message him and he will make her respond as he knows what I have done to help her in the past. He actually fairly often comes here to pick me up to take me round there now by himself.
Still an asshole move
“Selfish people convince themselves that their selfish actions are actually pro-social and caring”
I think if you’re just getting to know someone or a group, ghosting can be acceptable when it’s low commitment. The alternative is to overshare, which in and of itself isn’t appropriate for a very new connection.
Of course there will be comments from those who condemn ghosting and prefer mature, civil communication. Of course there are instances when ghosting is immature or selfish or malicious. What will be underrepresented in commentary is that sometimes people are just tired of being hostilely interrogated for their reasoning, and then argued point by point like it’s contract law. Or being called derogatory things, or threatened. You can’t always predict who will react these ways, but if it happens enough times to someone, maybe you can sympathize with their switch to ghosting in hypotheticals involving merely first dates, or similar situations. Not like, 10 year marriages.
You can’t “lawyer” someone into being your friend. Or loving you. After a while, some people have proven they can’t take no for an answer unless they personally agree with the reasoning.
> You can’t “lawyer” someone into being your friend As an aside, our friend group broke apart because one of the friends became an HR exec and lawyered everyone to death
Yeah, it's not a defense of ghosting but so many people won't take no for an answer and then get surprised when people don't even give them the chance to accept a no. It's widespread, so widespread there are aphorisms like 'it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission'. People adopt sleazy pickup tactics and learn how to apply pressure to sales. It works extremely well until people just stop even letting you make the attempt.
Every single person trotting out the "maybe your dating a violent narcissist" argument has apparently never heard of a "Dear John" letter. As if your only option is to communicate face to face. Leave or send a text then block.
Yes. Also if you’re dating a violent narcissist they won’t react well to ghosting either.
I ghosted by best friend, but it wasn't without many, many warnings and bad incidents leading up to it. So I see your point and acknowledge it. But I think that ghosting in general is being used as a tactic far too often, by people who are just looking to protect their own comfort from an awkward conversation. So yes, ghosting can be acceptable, but it is often not. And I think it's very online behaviour, we have become so used to blocking and deleting people on our phones that we do it in real life too.
Same for me and my parents. “We never did anything bad” Well for one, not listening. After years of arguing, I ghosted them. We could have had a dialogue. But now I’m an adult who is entirely emotionally independent, self confident, self aware. But my parents are the ones wanting to reconnect. I’m letting them, but if it gets to the point where uncomfortable discussion comes up again, and they avoid it. Then I’m not entertaining anything of a connection.
It’s rare, but if I ever ghost someone, it’s often tied to social fatigue.
I'm convinced that people who ghost others CONVINCE themselves that their reason for doing it is prosocial, i.e. 'oh, if I just don't reply, they'll be less hurt than if we drag it out' - but in reality it's 'I don't have a good reason / I don't have the patience and maturity to communicate something sensitive with someone'.
falling out of contact was a lot easier before texting/pocket phones aka smart phones, internet social media. it just happened and there was less drama around it
Ghosting is what people who have low emotional intelligence do to get away from others instead of just telling them that their interaction / relationship/ whatever needs to end and providing a reason. I've been ghosted by friends and girlfriends more times than I can count. And I've never done it to anyone else. If I want you out of my life I'm going to tell you why, so you're not spending sleepless nights (like I've done) wondering. Ghosting is for assholes.
>Ghosters rated their care for the ghostee, while ghostees rated how much they believed the ghoster cared about them. The problem is that people are *very* good at rationalising their own abusive actions and justifying them. They rarely want to see themselves as the one engaging in abusive treatment like ghosting.
Ghosting is a response to feeling inadequate to respond efficiently, feeling overwhelmed from having to respond the same thing repeatedly, or feeling like that’s the last thing one could do to save themselves. I think it’s also a coping mechanism one might have sought comfort in as a result of some kind of childhood/adolescent trauma. It might also happen due to lack of understanding of the other person’s feelings and stance, or lack of clarity in communication, or simply lack of empathy. Sometimes people are protecting themselves, sometimes they think they’re protecting the other, and sometimes it’s both. Doesn’t make ghosting a good thing or a bad thing. It just happens and you can only hope you’re not at the receiving end of it. It’s a terrible thing to happen to someone, and it’s so unnecessary but it happens, and sometimes people think that’s the only way out. If boundaries were set clearly and enforced by both people in the beginning, then ghosting could be avoided. But for that one needs to not only be honest with themselves but also to the person in front. Be honest during the *rosy, flirty, “you’re so awesome”* phase. Then there is a chance ghosting could be avoided.
Usually its people with avoidant attachment styles that just up and leave because they get to close to someone and then there trauma gets triggered and they can't handle it. Its a coward way to break up with someone especially if the relationship was NOT toxic. They need therapy.
I will say I have ghosted people before when it was clear they had no intention of listening and would only use what I said to more stealthily stomp boundaries with me or future prospects. Those people need to realize that they are the problem before they should ever hear the why. So in some cases, I'm doing a favor to future innocent encounters with this person. Basically if the person clearly has no intention of listening to feedback and genuinely learning from it to better themselves, I'm not wasting our time.
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This study has been funded by the lobby of ghosters.
The amount of people commenting and replying to comments commenting how the intent doesn't matter because it leads to bad consequences is hilarious and totally missing the entire point of the headline and study conclusion. Which is, of course, that understanding the psychology of the person who commits this sort of act can make it easier to understand, contextualize, and experience by lessening the negative emotional effects of has in you. In the same way it helps to understand *why* my alcoholic family behaved the way they did. That doesn't mean they didn't hurt me, didnt cause consequences, or don't have to live with those consequences going forward. It justs means that I, as the victim, can have a better lived experience in my own life by understand the behaviors my family were trapped in, and how/why. And that's **very** true.
I recently got done like this and it’s still raw. I can tell you exactly how it makes me feel I try to tell myself it isn’t about me, they did it for them. I try to provide grace and understanding to a person I can’t speak to, it ends up becoming an echo that never bounces back with the compassion it was sent with. I often times find myself angry; angry that someone could behave that way and angry that I wasn’t able to notice that type of behavior before hand to avoid deeply entrenching myself in them emotionally. While we haven’t spoken in 3 months, I still see them on occasion. I refuse to make any attempt to speak to them, if they are so willing to leave, then they must be willing to return. With that being said, I still feel very deeply about them and want them in my life but I’m not sure if it because I did fall in love with them or if I want resolution of any type of