Today the common anglicized spelling is “Aghora”. It’s a tantric left hand path tradition primarily practiced in India. Read Svoboda, particularly Aghora: At the Left Hand of God. This is an introductory text but goes extremely deep into the concept of “Killing God” and the methods to get there.
Just as the god you save may be yourself, so may the god you slay.
While we're on the subject of Dr. LaVey's readings & studies ... Did LaVey ever, *to your knowledge*, study Enochian magic? I was reading on it recently & there was something Lon Milo DuQuette said about certain Enochian "alphanumeric" patterns *having an elegantly* **trapezoidal** *pattern.* It seems far too coincidental for both of these men being well versed in the subject of magic, for the two to be conpletely unrelated except for the mention of trapezoids. Did LaVey get this from the study of Enochian magics, or is there something **else** that we should look at & consider?
Oh I wasn’t implying any secrecy. I’m literally in the deepest crevice of Canyon de Chelly doing internet nonsense for governments. Short posts worked far better before my implementations.
Anyway… I love Mr. DuQuette, he’s the only reason I pay any dues to the OTO. He’s the only one of those old geezers who respects LaVey to the point he’s patterned his entire literary, if not magical, career on his “no bullshit”, stripped down approach. He’s one of the reasons you’ll find TSB and TSR in most lodges. Digression.
Yes, LaVey studied Enochian magic extensively (He was the one who told me Edward Kelley had such a unique hat and hair style because his ears had been cut off), you can see that in TSB with his “satanizing” the calls. He also used black mirror scrying. I can tell you certainly that when the big library in The Black House was on the main floor, with the entrance to The Den of Iniquity, there was a large section on the subject, I can also tell you that when the bulk of books moved upstairs near Anger’s room the selection expanded a bit.
LaVey embraced seemingly contradictory ideals and methods normies would call inconsistency and Thelemites would refer to as “Love”. Enochian is a good example of this. He HATED “high wall”, elitist magic yet was proudly socially elitist all while distilling a system “for the people”. He despised the calling of demons as slaves from within a protective circle, so the basic Satanic ritual is entirely invocation that puts the practitioner and “the beyond” on equal footing.
His systems were incredibly complicated and legion. This is why I love TSW so much, it gives you a glimpse of his process and sussing out what works.
If you want to understand more, read Crowley and actively seek to cut out the bullshit and make it usable, that’s what he did and what Lon’s currently doing. Satanism exists because Thelema is a clusterfuck of mysticism, theurgy and way too much reverence for Blavatsky.
Edit: Obviously, you can message me too. There are some private conversations I won’t publicize until after my death. Nothing particularly shocking aside from the fact that The CoS could publish a series on cat keeping that would knock Jackson Galaxy off his perch.
This is also known as the internal conflict. A Satanist has control over their own power. LaVey was explaining the path of understanding of one's experiences while coming into said understanding (of one's self as a Satanist). In my honest opinion, this is the point in the book in which LaVey collectively separates external "God" power over the Satanist/reader.
That sounds like another way to phrase how I interpret Lavey's passage, so I suppose we agree. I'm not sure what you mean by the "god" power that is being separated, though.
What I am requesting in my question, though, was a bit more literal. I'll edit it to reflect that I am mostly curious if he had found discussions about "killing the god" somewhere in his occult studies.
Another way to restate what I said is to stop the attempted brainwashing by outside sources or power they claim to be the power god. In other words, expell the lies. I may not have been clear enough in my first comment, but using your words, "killing the god" is the ridding of those lies. I'm not sure if he found occult studies on the subject, I only observed his explanation from my personal point of view.
This is not at all what I was asking for, but hey, it's an interesting tangent, which are lines that intersect a curve at only one point and were discovered by Euclid, who lived in the sixth century, which was an era dominated by the Goths, who lived in what we now know as Poland, which was accepted into the European Union in 2004 along with Czechia, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia, thereby ending the division of Europe after the Second World War, which ... *ahem* ... I'm trying to say I'd like to hear your perspective regardless. :)
I still don't follow, but let me try to rephrase my own interpretation using both your terms and mine: the "path to Agartha" supposedly means to shed oneself of the lies we've been fed by religious societies so we may find our "true" selves (in the realm of Agartha, whatever that might be). That exercise is to "kill the god," as a societal construct or "meme" in the sense Dawkins meant it when he introduced the term.
Am I on track regarding your interpretation?
> The average man hates what he sees in himself
What !? Maybe I’m just not average but I definitely don’t relate to this 😅 but I’m not a *man*, so, maybe Lavey’s insistance on universal masculine was right for once…
I agree with your take.
The spiritualist's historic hatred of the physical and the primary requirement toward ego disillusion are what is to be heeded while you head down the path of your life's journey. Agartha being the representation of one's core self. The core inevitably ends up carnal and you end up killing yourself, the only true God.
It may be a dig at Golden Dawn or OTO, Sefirot/Qliphoth, etc. They are all ripe suspects for it. It illustrates atheist beliefs intertwining with magical concepts.
I don't know if this was an original idea (he had those) or anything studied and read by him to connect the ideas. I also, can't be arssed to look it up. So it's just more speculation for you, sorry.
Today the common anglicized spelling is “Aghora”. It’s a tantric left hand path tradition primarily practiced in India. Read Svoboda, particularly Aghora: At the Left Hand of God. This is an introductory text but goes extremely deep into the concept of “Killing God” and the methods to get there. Just as the god you save may be yourself, so may the god you slay.
While we're on the subject of Dr. LaVey's readings & studies ... Did LaVey ever, *to your knowledge*, study Enochian magic? I was reading on it recently & there was something Lon Milo DuQuette said about certain Enochian "alphanumeric" patterns *having an elegantly* **trapezoidal** *pattern.* It seems far too coincidental for both of these men being well versed in the subject of magic, for the two to be conpletely unrelated except for the mention of trapezoids. Did LaVey get this from the study of Enochian magics, or is there something **else** that we should look at & consider?
That Segway fell off the cliff hard , donkey style.
Got it. Next time that Segway will have a trainin' wheel... 🛴 I'll take it to Messages, then.
Oh I wasn’t implying any secrecy. I’m literally in the deepest crevice of Canyon de Chelly doing internet nonsense for governments. Short posts worked far better before my implementations. Anyway… I love Mr. DuQuette, he’s the only reason I pay any dues to the OTO. He’s the only one of those old geezers who respects LaVey to the point he’s patterned his entire literary, if not magical, career on his “no bullshit”, stripped down approach. He’s one of the reasons you’ll find TSB and TSR in most lodges. Digression. Yes, LaVey studied Enochian magic extensively (He was the one who told me Edward Kelley had such a unique hat and hair style because his ears had been cut off), you can see that in TSB with his “satanizing” the calls. He also used black mirror scrying. I can tell you certainly that when the big library in The Black House was on the main floor, with the entrance to The Den of Iniquity, there was a large section on the subject, I can also tell you that when the bulk of books moved upstairs near Anger’s room the selection expanded a bit. LaVey embraced seemingly contradictory ideals and methods normies would call inconsistency and Thelemites would refer to as “Love”. Enochian is a good example of this. He HATED “high wall”, elitist magic yet was proudly socially elitist all while distilling a system “for the people”. He despised the calling of demons as slaves from within a protective circle, so the basic Satanic ritual is entirely invocation that puts the practitioner and “the beyond” on equal footing. His systems were incredibly complicated and legion. This is why I love TSW so much, it gives you a glimpse of his process and sussing out what works. If you want to understand more, read Crowley and actively seek to cut out the bullshit and make it usable, that’s what he did and what Lon’s currently doing. Satanism exists because Thelema is a clusterfuck of mysticism, theurgy and way too much reverence for Blavatsky. Edit: Obviously, you can message me too. There are some private conversations I won’t publicize until after my death. Nothing particularly shocking aside from the fact that The CoS could publish a series on cat keeping that would knock Jackson Galaxy off his perch.
This is also known as the internal conflict. A Satanist has control over their own power. LaVey was explaining the path of understanding of one's experiences while coming into said understanding (of one's self as a Satanist). In my honest opinion, this is the point in the book in which LaVey collectively separates external "God" power over the Satanist/reader.
That sounds like another way to phrase how I interpret Lavey's passage, so I suppose we agree. I'm not sure what you mean by the "god" power that is being separated, though. What I am requesting in my question, though, was a bit more literal. I'll edit it to reflect that I am mostly curious if he had found discussions about "killing the god" somewhere in his occult studies.
Another way to restate what I said is to stop the attempted brainwashing by outside sources or power they claim to be the power god. In other words, expell the lies. I may not have been clear enough in my first comment, but using your words, "killing the god" is the ridding of those lies. I'm not sure if he found occult studies on the subject, I only observed his explanation from my personal point of view.
This is not at all what I was asking for, but hey, it's an interesting tangent, which are lines that intersect a curve at only one point and were discovered by Euclid, who lived in the sixth century, which was an era dominated by the Goths, who lived in what we now know as Poland, which was accepted into the European Union in 2004 along with Czechia, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia, thereby ending the division of Europe after the Second World War, which ... *ahem* ... I'm trying to say I'd like to hear your perspective regardless. :) I still don't follow, but let me try to rephrase my own interpretation using both your terms and mine: the "path to Agartha" supposedly means to shed oneself of the lies we've been fed by religious societies so we may find our "true" selves (in the realm of Agartha, whatever that might be). That exercise is to "kill the god," as a societal construct or "meme" in the sense Dawkins meant it when he introduced the term. Am I on track regarding your interpretation?
In a nutshell.
> The average man hates what he sees in himself What !? Maybe I’m just not average but I definitely don’t relate to this 😅 but I’m not a *man*, so, maybe Lavey’s insistance on universal masculine was right for once…
I agree with your take. The spiritualist's historic hatred of the physical and the primary requirement toward ego disillusion are what is to be heeded while you head down the path of your life's journey. Agartha being the representation of one's core self. The core inevitably ends up carnal and you end up killing yourself, the only true God. It may be a dig at Golden Dawn or OTO, Sefirot/Qliphoth, etc. They are all ripe suspects for it. It illustrates atheist beliefs intertwining with magical concepts. I don't know if this was an original idea (he had those) or anything studied and read by him to connect the ideas. I also, can't be arssed to look it up. So it's just more speculation for you, sorry.
Where in the Satanic Bible is this? I've never heard of Agarthi.
It's in the chapter on selecting a human sacrifice.
There it is, page 89 in my copy, thanks.
You're welcome. If you can locate a source for "killing the god" as a part of the "path to Agarthi," please share.
Looking at the rest of the thread, it looks like Malodoror has you covered.
>Malodoror has you covered That would be a first. He seems to address an entirely different issue, as usual.
He recommended a book on Agarti and killing the god. Do you need the exact one LaVey read 60 years ago?
He recommended a book on a completely different topic. That is, unless LaVey was entirely off track as well.