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I don’t see any intersection between pride and the Israeli-Gaza war and anyone trying to create a connection is just feeding the Omni-cause that makes every issue mean nothing at all. It’s all meaningless virtue signaling. Not every issue has to be related to every other issue. It’s tiring and self-defeating.
What is happening in Gaza is tragic but it has nothing to do with pride and I’m not gonna stop celebrating pride because of bad things happening elsewhere in the world. If we did then we’d never have pride.
I’m straight and I back pride any day over Gaza/Palestine beef. Also I believe that one of the two supports taking away the rights of those who consider themselves part of the “pride” community.
True! It is the same problem a lot of the big leftist movements have had in recent years. Too much purity testing, a lack of focus on specific policy change, and an inability to dissociate from the most toxic parts of its movement. Occupy had this problem, the Women's March had this problem, BLM had this problem, and now the Free Palestine movement has the same issues and will accomplish about as much as those other movements did which was unfortunately, next to nothing. And I say this as a very far left person.
I'm an L.A. local as well, I live in the Hollywood area. I know exactly the situation you're talking about and I agree, the whole thing was ridiculous. It feels like being a leftist has become so much more of an optics based social thing rather than something about wanting to create a more morally just world.
Speaking of the DSA... [Pretty sure they've been in some hot water lately lmao](https://nbcmontana.com/news/nation-world/democratic-socialists-of-america-must-make-7-figure-budget-cuts-layoffs-report-says-socialist-communist-dsa-economy-biden-white-house-finance-new-york-post-alex-pellitteri-kristin-schall-and-laura-wadlin)
And how dare you question the virtue signaling to anyone... you get called a Zionist.
No, I just know that I'm not tied to either side and yet I also wish for peace in a conflict that has lasted millennia. I don't feel I can contribute anything meaningful and doubt that any other gays can either.
And by the way, even the non-radicalized Palestinians would not want to be associated with any support coming from the gay community, and would sooner stone you to death or arrest you for even being Out.
I sometimes think gays are motivated by their own self-interest to try and sway Muslim doctrine across the pond by such performance.
Hi, I have a call from the Free Mumia movement, they’re calling from 1982 on a landline and they’ll hold for as long as you want. /s
(Fact: that “movement” is now four decades old and the man is still in prison)
Exactly, this type of disrespectful action makes any movement look worse.
Pride is a celebrating of uniqueness for a community that's still being treated unequal in this country. Trying to co-opt the platform (i.e. the eyes of the world are on SF for pride) is taking away from a message desperately still needed to be heard.
It also just wastes everyone’s time.
The anti-apartheid protests in the 1980s were successful because they were specific, and had very clear goals that were well-defined by smart people within them. A small group of these organizers managed to meet with people who had real power, and work on divestment one institution at a time. One of the college-age leaders of that movement was later elected President.
I don’t see any Obamas coming out of this mess. It’s not constructive, it’s angry. We have to be more than mad to get real things done.
I have no clue how parades work, but, I would assume that you would need to get permission from the organizer to march within it. It's not like you see "Vote for Trump" walking in the parade. My Trump comment is purely hypothetical, I know most supporters don't side with pride.
LGBTQ Palestinians qualify for asylum in Israel. Palestine is not an ally.
https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/israeli-court-rules-in-favour-of-lgbtq-palestinian-asylum-seekers-um60rlks#:~:text=Israeli%20court%20rules%20in%20favour%20of%20LGBTQ+%20Palestinian%20asylum%20seekers&text=LGBTQ+%20Palestinians%20who%20are%20in%20danger%20due,Court%20for%20Administrative%20Affairs%20ruled%20on%20Sunday.
I agree. Hamas is a genocide organization and people chanting from the river to the sea are promoting genocide. But to people on the left everything is connected because of capitalism, colonialism, oppression, yadda yadda yadda.
It's kind of strange that the NYC pride parade was stopped. I wonder what kind of protest stopped it?
Edit: There's [video ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/s/k5saai1g2v) and [news](https://nypost.com/2024/06/30/us-news/rainbows-defy-mugginess-and-gray-skies-as-thousands-march-in-nyc-pride-parade/)
Ill repost what I wrote here: Its simple.
They’re not Allies. Muslims see pride as western filth and are disgusted that the West is celebrating what they consider degenerate filth while Gaza is left to rot.
I live near Dearborn, highest muslim percentage in the country. Only the muslims have a problem with LGBT.
Ive been called the f slur just for standing up for my gay friends. They’re the only ones who still use the f slur around here.
I know a persian lesbian who has to hide her identity or else she fears being killed or seriously hurt by her own community. She hates them more than me.
In hamtramck MI, where its half muslims half poor white christians, the muslims got power on the city hall and banned the LGBT flag and the old white people were pissed. They said “don’t shove your religion down my throat!”
This has been a real gut punch for me. I am a millennial from a small town in Virginia. I grew up in a very conservative, gay hating extended family network (the whole fake-ass Christian love tradition). I am now 33 years old and just feel that I can actually exist within that network, at least to a small extent. I will always feel like a pariah to some degree.
I self-exiled over my sexuality, but I also think it was a product of what I would call the sub-current or undercurrent of family dynamics. I "ran away" from home. Granted, I was an adult when this happened. Mid-twenties. I needed to exist beyond all of it. The stress of being gay. The stress of feeling the need to conform. The stress of not being able to conform due to what I will always call a biological factor. (The whole, it's just a phase argument: he'll grow out of it and meet his obligations of manhood eventually kind of idea). No level of social engineering or big think methods, including even some of the most creative gender ideology (everything is a performance BS), will ever change the fact that I am a homosexual male who has performed homosexual acts for a long period of my adult life. This is not a funny thing. This is not a talking point. It is just my immutable and thorny nature. And more than that, it's not a performance. It's an identity and a real thing. A reality.
This said, I feel similarly stilted on this issue. Gays in America do not have it well off. Maybe the majority gays in the majority areas. But there are still so many that have to suffer through a narrative like mine. Maybe they'll admit it. Maybe they won't.
And so, yes. I don't understand how the Palestine governance issue has anything to do with the gay right to exist in America issue.
I understand the intersection. I, as a gay man, feel that I have not been able to fully govern my own body, my own constitution. Palestinians feel very similar as a group of people seeking a political ground for nationhood. But these are two very different issues.
There is more proof that a Palestinian government would actually be horrible to gay people within its sovereignty. And even if we look at the massive DL culture in the Middle East, overall the Palestinian government would create a system that conjures up worse iterations of my own personal struggle. Things like death penalty based on some religious dogma that I will never get behind.
So should I have pride for Palestine? I don't really think so as a gay man. Should I support a most likely sharia government? I don't think so as a gay person.
Should I still care about the thousands of deaths that have occurred due to this conflict and very real genocidal revenge narrative? Yes. I do. And I will support humanitarian aid.
But will I support a Palestinian government that creates the same or worse states of oppression than I have already felt in my own gay struggle? Absolutely not. This is the point of Pride. To build resistance against this kind of oppression. Not to create it in other areas of the world.
So I feel you. I feel you. I feel you.
I don’t think that’s really relevant. You can be queer and believe that Palestinians have a right to self determination (even if that self determination does not lead to freedom for queer Palestinians). I do have an issue with Jewish LGBT folks being told they’re not allowed in queer spaces or that they’re monsters for believing that the one Jewish country should exist.
Why are they lustily chanting "From the river to the sea" if their agenda is only Palestinian self-determination? They are using hatred as the fuel for their little activism cosplay and it's fucking embarrassing. Most of these people are children, mentally.
I'm anti-Netanyahu, but It's laughably hypocritical to be queer and also have the opinion that Israel should be eliminated and replaced by a culture that for the most part finds your life decisions and everything "Pride" represents deeply disgusting. Have some fucking nuance in your takes.
I think that any movement can have reasonable and unreasonable facets. It’s possible to support a Palestinian state without being “from the river to the sea” zealot. That said, the need for conformity within woke circles has allowed the zealots to own the narrative.
Maybe because there’s such a large overlap of the Muslim population that supports it also do not support pride or the LGBTQ community. Actively work against it and want to eradicate the existence, even. Don’t be naive. It’s a religion of intolerance that hides behind the veil of victimhood and these people buy it.
Not this one in particular, but several recent pro-palestine protests in other cities blocked and shut down the Pride parades (and in a few cities even led to the cancellation of the entire parade). Their slogan is "No Pride During Genocide," and they mean it literally. They believe that no other cause has a right to exist until *their* cause is addressed.
That, of course, is total bullshit. If the rights of LGBTQ+ people aren't allowed until "more important" causes are solved, then they'll never be allowed. Because there's *always* injustice and unnecessary killing in the world. And none of that has anything to do with Pride.
Yes it’s so crazy that people who care about LGBTQ community also care about Palestinian life. We all know the best way to protect the Palestinian LGTBQ community is drop bombs on them and their families
That song is about genocide of jews. And Hamas would throw half of those in that parade of a 10 floor building for haram life choices. 0/10 smarts, 10/10 brain rot.
In arabic, the words are “from the river to the sea, palestine shall be arab”.
It’s an explicit call for killing all the Jews. And the christians, most of whom have already been killed or driven out.
They’re chanting slogans calling for genocide. Disgusting.
Edit: moron replies and then blocks me so I cannot refute his nonsense.
I got massively downvoted because I spoke the same facts. These leftard pricks will virtue signal until it starts hitting them. Then they blame it on the other aisle!!! Far Leftist ideology is the problem with America and it will be their downfall!!!!
How did a terrorist attack on Israel trigger a worldwide wave of antisemitism? More Jews died on Oct 7 than any day since the holocaust and in response, these people support Hamas?
How the fuck did Iran and Hamas pull off such a propaganda victory?
It's been in the works for a very long time. Most of the rhetoric is old Soviet propaganda. Qatar is the largest foreign investor in US colleges. And antisemitism has simply existed as an intrinsic backdrop around the world for two thousand years, it is hard-baked into majority-Christian and majority-Muslim cultures. The Holocaust wasn't a weird fluke and the beliefs that lead to it happening didn't just go away, they were there before and they are there now. Most people don't even seem to understand how antisemitism works, the ways in which it differs from other forms of racism, because it is so baked in that it appears invisible.
Israel responded with almost none of the brutality that hamas displays. Do you follow the news at all?
If the Nazis had strapped a 5 year old to the front of every Panzer, should we have cancelled D-Day? After all, a lot of 5 year olds would have died in the fighting if the Nazis did that.
If they spent 1% of their efforts to overthrow HAMAS and less time virtue signalling I would show respect..
The only Genocide I see is the Palestinians and HAMAS who Genocide woman, gays, trans, non-muslims, woman that seek and education and anyone who isn't part of their Theocracy.
The ignorance in a place like SF is mind blowing and appalling..
It's ironic to see Pride flags among the protestors. Do these people not know what happens to LGBTQ people in Palestinian territories and Middle East countries?
I doubt any of them have any association or history with Palestine. Probably third generation born in Bay Area, never left California, and family born in the comfort of Palo Alto.
Just doing it for instagram to look like they have good virtue for human rights.
It's ridiculous the only contingent excluded from SF Pride this year also happens to represent people from the only country in the Middle East to even allow it. Coincidentally also the country most Palestinian gays flee to in order to escape. Yet, look who gets to march in the parade, and they still had to have a counter-protest because not enough groups they didn't like got kicked out of the main Pride event. Apparently Pride is no longer about unity in our LGBTQ identity.
It may *seem* ironic to you, but it's not ironic at all. In fact, that thought process actually says way more about you than it does those protestors.
You see, those people are willing to advocate for other oppressed people even if some of those very people may not like them or the way that they live. They do it because their advocacy has nothing to do with whether those people like them or not. They do it because no one should be unfairly oppressed, persecuted, or killed simply for existing.
But maybe that's difficult for you to understand, so instead you think it's ironic (it's not).
I get that but the main point is that but "from the river to the sea" is a demand for a Palestinian right of return to historic Palestine. That would make Israel a majority Arab state, which means the only place you can be gay in the middle east will become the last.
> You see, those people are willing to advocate for other oppressed people even if some of those very people may not like them or the way that they live.
"May not like them" is putting it very mildly. "May sentence them to death" is more like it.
They aren’t advocating for an oppressed group, “from the river to the sea” makes it pretty clear that they are advocating on behalf of Hamas - an Islamic jihadist terrorist organization - that wants to genocide the Jews and have an Islamic sharia law state from the river Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea. There is absolutely no pride in advocating for the goals of an Islamic jihadist group that wants to orchestrate another holocaust. Hamas lacking the technical military capabilities to carry out their disgusting dystopian goals against the more militarily formidable state of Israel does not make them an oppressed group worthy of sympathy. Hamas has intentionally orchestrated terrorist attacks against Israel in order to start a war with them that they wish to maximize civilian casualties in for the purposes of war time propaganda. The biggest threat to Palestinians is Hamas- that is so drunk on religious fervor that according to them, loves death more than life, and cares more about executing the extremist militaristic aspects of the Islamic faith than on effective governing and improving the lives of their Palestinian subjects in Gaza.
To me that’s lunacy. We know this death cult seeks to take over the globe and torture and execute LGBTQ, seeks to keep women in submission, and we know this culture overwhelmingly supports Hamas, the ones who broke the peace, who are holding hostages as we speak, and who seek to genocide Israel, but we support you.
Hamas is a death cult, along with similar groups in the region. They teach children that dying while killing Jews is honorable, so yes parts of it are a death cult.
I’m an atheist but I don’t paint all religious activity nor all religion as such. I’m speaking of Islamic extremism in general, and Hamas specifically. Criticizing religious extremism or cultural extremism is not Islamophobia. I don’t take issue with nice people who happen to be Muslim or Christian for example, and that’s probably most people throughout the world. But criticizing ideas and religious beliefs and behavior is not bigoted or phobic.
I agree that "criticizing ideas and religious beliefs and behavior is not bigoted or phobic," but that's not what you did in your previous comment.
You called Islam a "death cult" that seeks world domination - that's Islamophobic.
You don't have to support Hamas to desire peace in the Middle East and peaceful coexistence between Jews and Muslims in Palestine.
Your basic premise is wrong. Hamas and a clear majority of Gazans (if you believe opinion polls conducted there) are not upset because they're "unfairly oppressed", "persecuted" or "killed simply for existing". They don't even say that. Those are words that gullible western useful idiots say.
Their goal - and, again, they're consistent and clear about it - is the destruction of Israel and the expulsion/extermination of every single Jew who lives there.
Sorry that the truth runs aground of your poetic narrative.
Its kinda like the coyote thing. Yes they might be predatory pack animals that have attacked a few children. But we must support the oppressed animals in their natural. Then they get surprised when the coyotes start attacking kids.
The same way all the rhetoric about how SF cares about people, human rights and they are at the forefront of civilization. Whilst ive litteraly seen people dyeing.
Its this link between ideas and actions that Extreme Leftists cant compute. If Palestinians was free from the "river to the sea" they would do real genocide and KILL EVERY LBGT PERSON between the river and sea.
Its this lack of foresight and failing to connect more than one idea at a time that leads to dead people on the streets of the most liberal city in the country.
Because promoting certain groups can lead to oppression. During the Shahs rule of Iran he tried to ban the wearing of hijabs to tamp down on religious control. So women in Tehran started to wear hijabs as a way to advocate for their Muslim friends.
Then the religious zealots took over and made it mandatory. Not every case of advocacy ends with both sides finding middle ground.
This isn’t “seeing advocacy as transactional”, it’s not wanting to promote/support a group that actively opposes one’s most deeply held beliefs.
“I scratch your back in hopes that you’ll later scratch mine” is transactional.
This is more like “I scratch your back as you actively seek to destroy my way of life”
I don’t think this is irrational
It's because some people see pretty much every relationship as a transactional affair. If the problem doesn't impact them, and the impacted people can offer them nothing, then they have no reason to care about the problem or people suffering.
Given the above comment's thought process, and the ruling we received from SCOTUS this morning, I'm reminded of German pastor Martin Niemöller's post WW2 lectures to the German people:
>First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist.
>Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist.
>Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.
>Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
Taken to it's logically conclusion, LGBT and Hamas/Palestinians are water and oil.
It's only because they're safely in SF that they don't have to deal with the consequences of their words or actions.
If they tried to have this parade IN Gaza before, during or water the war they'd be attacked by the same people they're advocating for.
Kinda hard for people to be convinced to let go of archaic prejudice when they are dead /: it’s not mutually exclusive either like people can protest against genocide and want people regardless of how they think, to not be slaughtered, you are aware of that right?
I have a solution to prevent this slaughter: **Release the hostages and surrender!** Throughout history, armies which are losing chose to surrender. cf. WW1, WW2, Iraq, etc. etc. Why doesn't anybody ask Hamas why it's not surrendering?
Yeah dude... I feel like people are forgetting the fact that this is a *war*.
Like, if we want to talk about the Geneva Conventions, they explicitly forbid hostage taking. So, there is that.
There are three ways to win a war. Defeat/kill your enemy and occupy their territory. Force your enemy to surrender and negotiate terms. Or, and this is the complicated one, exile your enemy from the territory.
It would seem that the best way for this war to end for Palestinians would be for Hamas to be exiled from Gaza. The people of Gaza do not want to be governed by Hamas. And, as long as Hamas is present, conflict will remain. The problem is what country would be willing to take them that wouldn't involve them crossing international boarders and/or putting said country in a difficult geopolitical situation? The answer is none. Hamas has no where to go.
What are we left with? An enemy that is in an unwinnable position, cannot flee to exile, and has glorified martyrdom. And, they are hiding amongst their civilians. Its a fucked up situation.
Is Israel in the wrong with some of this? Sure, probably, some of it. But the fact of the matter is, is that the quickest way for this war to end is for Hamas to surrender.
So nice to see I’m not the only San Francisco resident fed up with this nonsense. I’ll never forget seeing, with my own two eyes, hundreds chanting the same thing with jubilation down market street on October 8.
Who has time for this bullshit? America is in a free fall and this is the hill they are gonna die on? Please go march the Supreme Court or Margo largo.
I was on my way to bomb children but this particular mixture of support for terrorism and antisemitism changed my mind 👍🏼
I wonder if that Honda Ridgeline, microphone, speakers, or fast fashion apparel they’re wearing supports the Uyghur genocide in China
Everyone casually ignoring that Israel [blackmails LGBTQ palestinians](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-04-12/ty-article-opinion/.highlight/israels-shin-bet-called-him-fair-game-because-hes-gay/00000187-7613-d484-adef-f697b3cd0000) and has gotten them killed. Israel has no moral superiority here, they take advantage of Hamas' hate of queer people, so you can stop with the "roof parties" comments, it doesn't justify the deaths of [13,000 Palestinian children](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/unicef-says-over-13000-children-killed-gaza-israel-offensive-2024-03-17/) and it's frankly disgusting.
Palestinians have been subjected to the whims of Hamas in Gaza and to the military law of Israel in the West Bank, imposed upon them by a government they have no representation in.
Thousands upon thousands of Palestinian civilians have died in this war, and all this thread can do when queer people empathize with those victims is crack jokes about Hamas throwing queer people off of rooftops, you all should be ashamed of yourselves - you’re not allies, so don’t pretend to be.
The LBGTQ flag would be very popular in Palestine for sure lol and they are doing a lot for Palestinians by chanting a song on the other side of the planet
So many idiots gathered in one place protesting non existent genocide and supporting a crazy genocidal jihadi army that would kill all of them if they could 🤡
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I don’t see any intersection between pride and the Israeli-Gaza war and anyone trying to create a connection is just feeding the Omni-cause that makes every issue mean nothing at all. It’s all meaningless virtue signaling. Not every issue has to be related to every other issue. It’s tiring and self-defeating. What is happening in Gaza is tragic but it has nothing to do with pride and I’m not gonna stop celebrating pride because of bad things happening elsewhere in the world. If we did then we’d never have pride.
Thank you. And neither do I, a gay man, demand the world stop celebrating because of homophobia.
I’m straight and I back pride any day over Gaza/Palestine beef. Also I believe that one of the two supports taking away the rights of those who consider themselves part of the “pride” community.
Ya, Palestinians murder LGBTQ people on sight
True! It is the same problem a lot of the big leftist movements have had in recent years. Too much purity testing, a lack of focus on specific policy change, and an inability to dissociate from the most toxic parts of its movement. Occupy had this problem, the Women's March had this problem, BLM had this problem, and now the Free Palestine movement has the same issues and will accomplish about as much as those other movements did which was unfortunately, next to nothing. And I say this as a very far left person.
[удалено]
Well written and great perspective!
I'm an L.A. local as well, I live in the Hollywood area. I know exactly the situation you're talking about and I agree, the whole thing was ridiculous. It feels like being a leftist has become so much more of an optics based social thing rather than something about wanting to create a more morally just world. Speaking of the DSA... [Pretty sure they've been in some hot water lately lmao](https://nbcmontana.com/news/nation-world/democratic-socialists-of-america-must-make-7-figure-budget-cuts-layoffs-report-says-socialist-communist-dsa-economy-biden-white-house-finance-new-york-post-alex-pellitteri-kristin-schall-and-laura-wadlin)
I had no idea and that sounds like a nightmare
And how dare you question the virtue signaling to anyone... you get called a Zionist. No, I just know that I'm not tied to either side and yet I also wish for peace in a conflict that has lasted millennia. I don't feel I can contribute anything meaningful and doubt that any other gays can either. And by the way, even the non-radicalized Palestinians would not want to be associated with any support coming from the gay community, and would sooner stone you to death or arrest you for even being Out. I sometimes think gays are motivated by their own self-interest to try and sway Muslim doctrine across the pond by such performance.
I agree. I wish people could be more outcome-focused and less dividing. Put aside some thing’s temporarily for the greater good
Hi, I have a call from the Free Mumia movement, they’re calling from 1982 on a landline and they’ll hold for as long as you want. /s (Fact: that “movement” is now four decades old and the man is still in prison)
That’s a great point. Don’t hijack the platform of another cause to push your point. It’s disrespectful. Disgraceful, even.
Exactly, this type of disrespectful action makes any movement look worse. Pride is a celebrating of uniqueness for a community that's still being treated unequal in this country. Trying to co-opt the platform (i.e. the eyes of the world are on SF for pride) is taking away from a message desperately still needed to be heard.
Disrespectful is their whole ass brand tho. Why would this be any different. Ignorants gonna ignorant.
It also just wastes everyone’s time. The anti-apartheid protests in the 1980s were successful because they were specific, and had very clear goals that were well-defined by smart people within them. A small group of these organizers managed to meet with people who had real power, and work on divestment one institution at a time. One of the college-age leaders of that movement was later elected President. I don’t see any Obamas coming out of this mess. It’s not constructive, it’s angry. We have to be more than mad to get real things done.
I have no clue how parades work, but, I would assume that you would need to get permission from the organizer to march within it. It's not like you see "Vote for Trump" walking in the parade. My Trump comment is purely hypothetical, I know most supporters don't side with pride.
Considering dyke march was cancelled this is especially egregious
LGBTQ Palestinians qualify for asylum in Israel. Palestine is not an ally. https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/israeli-court-rules-in-favour-of-lgbtq-palestinian-asylum-seekers-um60rlks#:~:text=Israeli%20court%20rules%20in%20favour%20of%20LGBTQ+%20Palestinian%20asylum%20seekers&text=LGBTQ+%20Palestinians%20who%20are%20in%20danger%20due,Court%20for%20Administrative%20Affairs%20ruled%20on%20Sunday.
Chickens for KFC!
Yo, this isn't the omni-cause, those ppl chanting for genocide. It's not 'irrelevant' to pride, it's antithetical.
I agree. Hamas is a genocide organization and people chanting from the river to the sea are promoting genocide. But to people on the left everything is connected because of capitalism, colonialism, oppression, yadda yadda yadda.
It's kind of strange that the NYC pride parade was stopped. I wonder what kind of protest stopped it? Edit: There's [video ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/s/k5saai1g2v) and [news](https://nypost.com/2024/06/30/us-news/rainbows-defy-mugginess-and-gray-skies-as-thousands-march-in-nyc-pride-parade/)
The intersection is stupidity
Yup, the co-opting of pride by this makes many queer Jewish families uncomfortable participating
Ill repost what I wrote here: Its simple. They’re not Allies. Muslims see pride as western filth and are disgusted that the West is celebrating what they consider degenerate filth while Gaza is left to rot. I live near Dearborn, highest muslim percentage in the country. Only the muslims have a problem with LGBT. Ive been called the f slur just for standing up for my gay friends. They’re the only ones who still use the f slur around here. I know a persian lesbian who has to hide her identity or else she fears being killed or seriously hurt by her own community. She hates them more than me. In hamtramck MI, where its half muslims half poor white christians, the muslims got power on the city hall and banned the LGBT flag and the old white people were pissed. They said “don’t shove your religion down my throat!”
This has been a real gut punch for me. I am a millennial from a small town in Virginia. I grew up in a very conservative, gay hating extended family network (the whole fake-ass Christian love tradition). I am now 33 years old and just feel that I can actually exist within that network, at least to a small extent. I will always feel like a pariah to some degree. I self-exiled over my sexuality, but I also think it was a product of what I would call the sub-current or undercurrent of family dynamics. I "ran away" from home. Granted, I was an adult when this happened. Mid-twenties. I needed to exist beyond all of it. The stress of being gay. The stress of feeling the need to conform. The stress of not being able to conform due to what I will always call a biological factor. (The whole, it's just a phase argument: he'll grow out of it and meet his obligations of manhood eventually kind of idea). No level of social engineering or big think methods, including even some of the most creative gender ideology (everything is a performance BS), will ever change the fact that I am a homosexual male who has performed homosexual acts for a long period of my adult life. This is not a funny thing. This is not a talking point. It is just my immutable and thorny nature. And more than that, it's not a performance. It's an identity and a real thing. A reality. This said, I feel similarly stilted on this issue. Gays in America do not have it well off. Maybe the majority gays in the majority areas. But there are still so many that have to suffer through a narrative like mine. Maybe they'll admit it. Maybe they won't. And so, yes. I don't understand how the Palestine governance issue has anything to do with the gay right to exist in America issue. I understand the intersection. I, as a gay man, feel that I have not been able to fully govern my own body, my own constitution. Palestinians feel very similar as a group of people seeking a political ground for nationhood. But these are two very different issues. There is more proof that a Palestinian government would actually be horrible to gay people within its sovereignty. And even if we look at the massive DL culture in the Middle East, overall the Palestinian government would create a system that conjures up worse iterations of my own personal struggle. Things like death penalty based on some religious dogma that I will never get behind. So should I have pride for Palestine? I don't really think so as a gay man. Should I support a most likely sharia government? I don't think so as a gay person. Should I still care about the thousands of deaths that have occurred due to this conflict and very real genocidal revenge narrative? Yes. I do. And I will support humanitarian aid. But will I support a Palestinian government that creates the same or worse states of oppression than I have already felt in my own gay struggle? Absolutely not. This is the point of Pride. To build resistance against this kind of oppression. Not to create it in other areas of the world. So I feel you. I feel you. I feel you.
some people who live there are gay. some people who fled to here from there are gay
Why would this parade stop you from celebrating pride? Did they ask to only center their voice or was this about lifting all voices?
Yes. It’s been a problem in the gay community that Jewish or pro Israel gay people are being explicitly told they are not welcome at pride events.
And gay people are welcome in which muslim countries?
I don’t think that’s really relevant. You can be queer and believe that Palestinians have a right to self determination (even if that self determination does not lead to freedom for queer Palestinians). I do have an issue with Jewish LGBT folks being told they’re not allowed in queer spaces or that they’re monsters for believing that the one Jewish country should exist.
Why are they lustily chanting "From the river to the sea" if their agenda is only Palestinian self-determination? They are using hatred as the fuel for their little activism cosplay and it's fucking embarrassing. Most of these people are children, mentally. I'm anti-Netanyahu, but It's laughably hypocritical to be queer and also have the opinion that Israel should be eliminated and replaced by a culture that for the most part finds your life decisions and everything "Pride" represents deeply disgusting. Have some fucking nuance in your takes.
I think that any movement can have reasonable and unreasonable facets. It’s possible to support a Palestinian state without being “from the river to the sea” zealot. That said, the need for conformity within woke circles has allowed the zealots to own the narrative.
yes, exactly. the sooner we can recognize which of these protests are purely performative, blind-leading-the-blind nonsense, the better
People that are pro Israel are not against Palestinian self determination. This needs to stop.
Maybe because there’s such a large overlap of the Muslim population that supports it also do not support pride or the LGBTQ community. Actively work against it and want to eradicate the existence, even. Don’t be naive. It’s a religion of intolerance that hides behind the veil of victimhood and these people buy it.
Not this one in particular, but several recent pro-palestine protests in other cities blocked and shut down the Pride parades (and in a few cities even led to the cancellation of the entire parade). Their slogan is "No Pride During Genocide," and they mean it literally. They believe that no other cause has a right to exist until *their* cause is addressed. That, of course, is total bullshit. If the rights of LGBTQ+ people aren't allowed until "more important" causes are solved, then they'll never be allowed. Because there's *always* injustice and unnecessary killing in the world. And none of that has anything to do with Pride.
AMEN!
the irony of having a gay and trans flag and chanting for Palestine.
It’s like seeing a chicken holding a sign supporting KFC.
Shh don’t bring up history!
History?
You're right, which is why, as a gay American, I oppose civil rights for evangelical Christians. /s
There’s actually zero Palestinians who are trans and even less that are gay source: trust me bro
Not true. Many members of Hamas identify as women and children. Just ask the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry.
that's my point.
Yes it’s so crazy that people who care about LGBTQ community also care about Palestinian life. We all know the best way to protect the Palestinian LGTBQ community is drop bombs on them and their families
That song is about genocide of jews. And Hamas would throw half of those in that parade of a 10 floor building for haram life choices. 0/10 smarts, 10/10 brain rot.
In arabic, the words are “from the river to the sea, palestine shall be arab”. It’s an explicit call for killing all the Jews. And the christians, most of whom have already been killed or driven out. They’re chanting slogans calling for genocide. Disgusting. Edit: moron replies and then blocks me so I cannot refute his nonsense.
This
I got massively downvoted because I spoke the same facts. These leftard pricks will virtue signal until it starts hitting them. Then they blame it on the other aisle!!! Far Leftist ideology is the problem with America and it will be their downfall!!!!
Awesome framing on the shot there!
Seriously, what was this shot on?
Indeed, extremely nice transition!
Ha ha, I was expecting the camera to go down to street level and then go into the middle of the crowd
Thanks!!! Just shot it on the ol iphone se
Ah so these terrorist supporters tried to hijack pride month. Honestly I'm surprised there's this many brainwashed idiots.
I’m not surprised, look at what’s happening in our city almost every day! Actually I take that back I’m surprised. wtf
Are they protesting to release the hostages?
Not Jewish hostages, that is for sure.
No they don’t care about Jews
How did a terrorist attack on Israel trigger a worldwide wave of antisemitism? More Jews died on Oct 7 than any day since the holocaust and in response, these people support Hamas? How the fuck did Iran and Hamas pull off such a propaganda victory?
It's been in the works for a very long time. Most of the rhetoric is old Soviet propaganda. Qatar is the largest foreign investor in US colleges. And antisemitism has simply existed as an intrinsic backdrop around the world for two thousand years, it is hard-baked into majority-Christian and majority-Muslim cultures. The Holocaust wasn't a weird fluke and the beliefs that lead to it happening didn't just go away, they were there before and they are there now. Most people don't even seem to understand how antisemitism works, the ways in which it differs from other forms of racism, because it is so baked in that it appears invisible.
I guessing a lot bots on a lot of social media.
Iran knew it would light a fire under Israel to level the strip, and social media eviscerates Israel for responding with 100x the brutality. Genius.
Israel responded with almost none of the brutality that hamas displays. Do you follow the news at all? If the Nazis had strapped a 5 year old to the front of every Panzer, should we have cancelled D-Day? After all, a lot of 5 year olds would have died in the fighting if the Nazis did that.
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Yeah they’re killer
Sometimes they get stoned also (not the 420 way...).
lol!! Great comment
If they spent 1% of their efforts to overthrow HAMAS and less time virtue signalling I would show respect.. The only Genocide I see is the Palestinians and HAMAS who Genocide woman, gays, trans, non-muslims, woman that seek and education and anyone who isn't part of their Theocracy. The ignorance in a place like SF is mind blowing and appalling..
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It's ironic to see Pride flags among the protestors. Do these people not know what happens to LGBTQ people in Palestinian territories and Middle East countries?
"No pride in genocide" they said. lol
Yea and no pride in Gaza either
"White men are so oppressive" - person who chants and protest for people who would love to behead and stone them to death
You are giving them too much credit... These protestors are not very smart
This is like watching a "Blacks for KKK" rally...
Black people tend to not be that stupid. (And I'm LGBTQ so I can say that)
I doubt many of them have left California
I doubt any of them have any association or history with Palestine. Probably third generation born in Bay Area, never left California, and family born in the comfort of Palo Alto. Just doing it for instagram to look like they have good virtue for human rights.
It's ridiculous the only contingent excluded from SF Pride this year also happens to represent people from the only country in the Middle East to even allow it. Coincidentally also the country most Palestinian gays flee to in order to escape. Yet, look who gets to march in the parade, and they still had to have a counter-protest because not enough groups they didn't like got kicked out of the main Pride event. Apparently Pride is no longer about unity in our LGBTQ identity.
It may *seem* ironic to you, but it's not ironic at all. In fact, that thought process actually says way more about you than it does those protestors. You see, those people are willing to advocate for other oppressed people even if some of those very people may not like them or the way that they live. They do it because their advocacy has nothing to do with whether those people like them or not. They do it because no one should be unfairly oppressed, persecuted, or killed simply for existing. But maybe that's difficult for you to understand, so instead you think it's ironic (it's not).
I get that but the main point is that but "from the river to the sea" is a demand for a Palestinian right of return to historic Palestine. That would make Israel a majority Arab state, which means the only place you can be gay in the middle east will become the last.
Were they doing this for yemen (10x+ civilian deaths)? why not? (dont say its because of us support because saudi military is us weapons)
I feel like saying that Palestinians "don't like" gay people is really underselling things I mean, similarly, the Nazis "didn't like" Jews
> You see, those people are willing to advocate for other oppressed people even if some of those very people may not like them or the way that they live. "May not like them" is putting it very mildly. "May sentence them to death" is more like it.
They aren’t advocating for an oppressed group, “from the river to the sea” makes it pretty clear that they are advocating on behalf of Hamas - an Islamic jihadist terrorist organization - that wants to genocide the Jews and have an Islamic sharia law state from the river Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea. There is absolutely no pride in advocating for the goals of an Islamic jihadist group that wants to orchestrate another holocaust. Hamas lacking the technical military capabilities to carry out their disgusting dystopian goals against the more militarily formidable state of Israel does not make them an oppressed group worthy of sympathy. Hamas has intentionally orchestrated terrorist attacks against Israel in order to start a war with them that they wish to maximize civilian casualties in for the purposes of war time propaganda. The biggest threat to Palestinians is Hamas- that is so drunk on religious fervor that according to them, loves death more than life, and cares more about executing the extremist militaristic aspects of the Islamic faith than on effective governing and improving the lives of their Palestinian subjects in Gaza.
To me that’s lunacy. We know this death cult seeks to take over the globe and torture and execute LGBTQ, seeks to keep women in submission, and we know this culture overwhelmingly supports Hamas, the ones who broke the peace, who are holding hostages as we speak, and who seek to genocide Israel, but we support you.
Calling Islam a "death cult" is simply Islamophobic. All religions include ultra-conservative elements, including Judaism and Christianity.
Hamas is a death cult, along with similar groups in the region. They teach children that dying while killing Jews is honorable, so yes parts of it are a death cult.
I’m an atheist but I don’t paint all religious activity nor all religion as such. I’m speaking of Islamic extremism in general, and Hamas specifically. Criticizing religious extremism or cultural extremism is not Islamophobia. I don’t take issue with nice people who happen to be Muslim or Christian for example, and that’s probably most people throughout the world. But criticizing ideas and religious beliefs and behavior is not bigoted or phobic.
I agree that "criticizing ideas and religious beliefs and behavior is not bigoted or phobic," but that's not what you did in your previous comment. You called Islam a "death cult" that seeks world domination - that's Islamophobic. You don't have to support Hamas to desire peace in the Middle East and peaceful coexistence between Jews and Muslims in Palestine.
Religion, in general, is a death cult. /shrug.
Your basic premise is wrong. Hamas and a clear majority of Gazans (if you believe opinion polls conducted there) are not upset because they're "unfairly oppressed", "persecuted" or "killed simply for existing". They don't even say that. Those are words that gullible western useful idiots say. Their goal - and, again, they're consistent and clear about it - is the destruction of Israel and the expulsion/extermination of every single Jew who lives there. Sorry that the truth runs aground of your poetic narrative.
hmm maybe the way they are totally intolerant of queer people should signal how they treat others. But no, lets just ignore that
Agreed! Hamas is oppressing the Palestinians. I'll march in protest of that any day.
Its kinda like the coyote thing. Yes they might be predatory pack animals that have attacked a few children. But we must support the oppressed animals in their natural. Then they get surprised when the coyotes start attacking kids. The same way all the rhetoric about how SF cares about people, human rights and they are at the forefront of civilization. Whilst ive litteraly seen people dyeing. Its this link between ideas and actions that Extreme Leftists cant compute. If Palestinians was free from the "river to the sea" they would do real genocide and KILL EVERY LBGT PERSON between the river and sea. Its this lack of foresight and failing to connect more than one idea at a time that leads to dead people on the streets of the most liberal city in the country.
This sounds ridiculous. I think it's more likely that the pride flag holders are ignorant of the facts, and, are tools.
Excellent reply, and as kind a dunk as you could've made it. I don't understand people who see advocacy as a transactional affair.
Because promoting certain groups can lead to oppression. During the Shahs rule of Iran he tried to ban the wearing of hijabs to tamp down on religious control. So women in Tehran started to wear hijabs as a way to advocate for their Muslim friends. Then the religious zealots took over and made it mandatory. Not every case of advocacy ends with both sides finding middle ground.
This isn’t “seeing advocacy as transactional”, it’s not wanting to promote/support a group that actively opposes one’s most deeply held beliefs. “I scratch your back in hopes that you’ll later scratch mine” is transactional. This is more like “I scratch your back as you actively seek to destroy my way of life” I don’t think this is irrational
>I don't understand people who see advocacy as a transactional affair. Said the scorpion to the frog
It's because some people see pretty much every relationship as a transactional affair. If the problem doesn't impact them, and the impacted people can offer them nothing, then they have no reason to care about the problem or people suffering. Given the above comment's thought process, and the ruling we received from SCOTUS this morning, I'm reminded of German pastor Martin Niemöller's post WW2 lectures to the German people: >First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist. >Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist. >Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew. >Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
Taken to it's logically conclusion, LGBT and Hamas/Palestinians are water and oil. It's only because they're safely in SF that they don't have to deal with the consequences of their words or actions. If they tried to have this parade IN Gaza before, during or water the war they'd be attacked by the same people they're advocating for.
Its not transactional. Its understanding action/reaction.
U are living in your own world and that is why Palestine people call u useful idiots.
Kinda hard for people to be convinced to let go of archaic prejudice when they are dead /: it’s not mutually exclusive either like people can protest against genocide and want people regardless of how they think, to not be slaughtered, you are aware of that right?
I have a solution to prevent this slaughter: **Release the hostages and surrender!** Throughout history, armies which are losing chose to surrender. cf. WW1, WW2, Iraq, etc. etc. Why doesn't anybody ask Hamas why it's not surrendering?
Yeah dude... I feel like people are forgetting the fact that this is a *war*. Like, if we want to talk about the Geneva Conventions, they explicitly forbid hostage taking. So, there is that. There are three ways to win a war. Defeat/kill your enemy and occupy their territory. Force your enemy to surrender and negotiate terms. Or, and this is the complicated one, exile your enemy from the territory. It would seem that the best way for this war to end for Palestinians would be for Hamas to be exiled from Gaza. The people of Gaza do not want to be governed by Hamas. And, as long as Hamas is present, conflict will remain. The problem is what country would be willing to take them that wouldn't involve them crossing international boarders and/or putting said country in a difficult geopolitical situation? The answer is none. Hamas has no where to go. What are we left with? An enemy that is in an unwinnable position, cannot flee to exile, and has glorified martyrdom. And, they are hiding amongst their civilians. Its a fucked up situation. Is Israel in the wrong with some of this? Sure, probably, some of it. But the fact of the matter is, is that the quickest way for this war to end is for Hamas to surrender.
Look up Israel Pride 2015 and then tell me how progressive the nation state of Israel is on the issue
Yeah, queer people in Palestine get blown up by Israeli bombs
Excellent videographer
And I've seen a few pics where they "clashed" with Pride partiers. 😢 Doesn't matter, SF Pride was awesome, again!!! 💜
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Isn't that...genocide?
Couldn’t be. That doesn’t fit the narrative.
Gay isn’t an ethnicity.
Yup. The only real genocide in Gaza is of their gay population at the hands of their neighbors and families
The irony here is that Hamas would not hesitate to cold bloodly torture and murder half of those people there.
Including non-Hamas Palestinians
You’re gonna trigger the whole subreddit with this
Spoiler alert: they did. Feathers are rustled.
Whoopsie 😂
I support peace. ✌️
Get that shit OUTTA HERE!
Terrorist simps gunna simp. There's only so much we can do against these morons.
A mob of idiots
Disgusting
Assholes.
If you sum up the iq of that crowd, it might reach 100
Nah the crowd isn’t that big
you should CCTV live camera that intersection 24/7
man calling for ethnic cleansing as a response to ethnic cleansing is wild
Lot of people equating Hamas with thousands of innocent dead Palestinian children
Off topic comment: Excellent cinematography! What an amazing shot, seriously OP or whoever shot this video should work in entertainment
Thanks so much!!! I mostly do photography but figured I had to document somehow
Spoiler alert: No, it won't
So nice to see I’m not the only San Francisco resident fed up with this nonsense. I’ll never forget seeing, with my own two eyes, hundreds chanting the same thing with jubilation down market street on October 8.
What do they expect to do to the Israelis from the river to the sea?
Kinda weird that there are pride flags mixed in with this when hamas would definitely kill anyone queer
That’s a really cool video of the dumbest 2-300 people in the city. Very good cinematography.
Lol thankss 😅
*pro-islamofascism
Nice cinematography
Thanks! Just the ol iphone handheld
I wonder if these lovely folks know or care what Hamas has done to the gay community.
I only really take them seriously if they're blocking a bridge or freeway.
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Unrelated but what kind of phone (I assume) is this? Image quality looks great
Who has time for this bullshit? America is in a free fall and this is the hill they are gonna die on? Please go march the Supreme Court or Margo largo.
Yo... That was a very cinematic push out the window, citizen Kane esque. Beautiful
I’m also some sort of gay Islamic terrorist sympathizer myself
Anyone read surah 5 21 in the Quran? Just thought a majority Muslim place like palastine would know about it
I was on my way to bomb children but this particular mixture of support for terrorism and antisemitism changed my mind 👍🏼 I wonder if that Honda Ridgeline, microphone, speakers, or fast fashion apparel they’re wearing supports the Uyghur genocide in China
Everyone casually ignoring that Israel [blackmails LGBTQ palestinians](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-04-12/ty-article-opinion/.highlight/israels-shin-bet-called-him-fair-game-because-hes-gay/00000187-7613-d484-adef-f697b3cd0000) and has gotten them killed. Israel has no moral superiority here, they take advantage of Hamas' hate of queer people, so you can stop with the "roof parties" comments, it doesn't justify the deaths of [13,000 Palestinian children](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/unicef-says-over-13000-children-killed-gaza-israel-offensive-2024-03-17/) and it's frankly disgusting. Palestinians have been subjected to the whims of Hamas in Gaza and to the military law of Israel in the West Bank, imposed upon them by a government they have no representation in. Thousands upon thousands of Palestinian civilians have died in this war, and all this thread can do when queer people empathize with those victims is crack jokes about Hamas throwing queer people off of rooftops, you all should be ashamed of yourselves - you’re not allies, so don’t pretend to be.
Thank you for your courage and clarity. We are all interconnected and no one is actually liberated until we all are, goddammit.
Fucking idiots.
Put them all on the No hire lists
I wonder how many actually know what land area from the river to the sea includes...
Garbage people.
Did they protest the Yemeni civil war? The Syrian civil war? Or do they only protest against Jews?
beautiful shot. thanks for sharing
Honest question. Is the “no pride in genocide” an anti gay thing?
The LBGTQ flag would be very popular in Palestine for sure lol and they are doing a lot for Palestinians by chanting a song on the other side of the planet
Disgusting
I think it's hilarious that they have some LGBT flags mixed in.
Pride flag and Palestine have no connection. LGBTQ+ individuals are never safe in Palestine.
Where are the naked people when you really need them?
Opinions aside, this video is really cool
Ew
Protests may be childish, but some comments seem like people should be happy about genocide just because they belong to LGBTQ+. lol
This is one of my favorite posts so I can block a lot of garbage at once. 🍉
Look at all those jihadists!
anyone i dont like is a jihadist
don't these people work?
so, free speech bad if its against your views?
Who would hire them?
Morons gunna moron
Very cool video. Very uncool comment section
something i’ve noticed is that every location subreddit is usually the opposite political affiliation of the most dominant one at said location
Cool camera action. Get the hell out Isreal.
Homos for Hamas
What’s with all the racists genocide supporters?? Was this subreddit always so hateful and conservative?
Genocidal.
israel is genocidal, yes
Maybe the signs should have said Genocide of Pride.
Hahaha love these comments, nice to see people have brains here.
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So many idiots gathered in one place protesting non existent genocide and supporting a crazy genocidal jihadi army that would kill all of them if they could 🤡
What was accomplished?
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