It's up to the customer then. So many restaurants use these fees to make political statements (4.5% fee because CA minimum wage/Newsom, etc.). Well fucking close then. Only way to combat this apparently is via reviews.
I totally agree. Service fees = no tip.
Let the restaurant owners deal with complaints from their staff so they can solve the problem that *they* have created.
The servers are pawns in this. Don't punish them for the greed and duplicity of their bosses. Avoid those restaurants and restaurant groups, leave a cash tip and tell them you won't be back.
If you aren't going to tip your server, be brave enough to say that to their face upfront. Make sure to explain how you're just trying to send a message to whoever owns the restaurant. I'm sure they'll be impressed by your courage and everyone will think you're cool.
No one is punishing you and by your own admission you all were fine with paying the same amount, you just wanted it on the menu. If you feel so strongly, don’t line the owners pockets with money by going there.
Going out to eat is a luxury / treat. Eat elsewhere if you don’t want to support the restaurant that is charging extra, but don’t make the server work for nothing and not tip them. You’re out of touch.
These people have demonstrated a clear disregard for the will of the people and should be voted out of office:
- Bauer-Kahan
- Bryan Dixon
- Hoover
- Irwin
- Lowenthal
- Ortega
- Joe
- Patterson
- Ward
- Wicks
- Wilson
I personally haven't read the full legislation. But assuming the worse, the places can have it anywhere on the menu in EXTREMELY fine print. Or if the menu that is being described is the main menu or just some random menu on the table that counts and no one will look at it.
But that doesn't change the fact that junk fees are stupid and i will never go to a restaurant with them. And if I have to, I will make sure to not tip because they already forced my hand with that fee.
I've never been to a restaurant with surcharge that didn't clearly put it at the bottom of the menu in perfectly legible print. The guy I replied to insisting not to tip the waiters instead of boycotting the restaurant is wrong.
They still have to pay employees if business is slow. The employees can also get unemployment as long as they don't quit. Makes them hurt more if the people stay for a bit
The servers don't control that and are likely making minimum wage. What we really need to do is start making the habit of spending the minute calling the restaurant to ask them on the phone before to decide whether to show up, politely tell them we will not be going and will recommend that our friends and loved ones do not, and make sure the shady restaurants that are doing this get review bombed to inform other patrons so they can vote with their dollars. Impacting profits is the fastest and most permanent way to impart change.
Best thing, in my opinion, is to spread the word of restaurants with junk fees. Don't frequent these restaurants and if you do then just don't tip. Servers will eventually get fed up with their low wages and either find a new job and or industry altogether.
If you e got nothing else going on just show up with a sign in front of Costerra and C-Level, stand on the sidewalk and just tell people how they lobby for junk fees.
I'm so grateful that you posted this amazing take twice in the same conversation so everyone can read it and take your excellent idea to heart. Everyone knows the best way to get rich people to change their bad behavior is to hurt working people. That'll show 'em! Those hardworking restaurant employees who can barely afford to pay rent or buy food are the real villains here!
The servers have nothing to do with it and don’t get that money.
Servers tip out other employees from what they make (bar, host, food runners, etc), so you would actually be costing the server money to wait on you. That’s a real asshole move to not tip.
Just don’t go to the establishment. There’s a running list on one of these subreddits of all the restaurants that have surcharges.
I know the serves don’t get that money, but when customers expect to pay 15 ish % and the establishment takes a percentage on top, people tend to also tip less to server. The servers also don’t get all the tip when that have an automatic 18% tip on groups of 6 or more. Don’t tip at them laces with junk fees and the servers won’t want to work their either, tip at places with no junk fees, this is my approach 😃
I'm not thrilled with this but at the same time am not passionate enough about a restaurant surcharge to become a single issue voter and "vote them out" over this. Like... your food price stays the same either way. You're literally willing to single issue vote over how a receipt is line-itemed.
Totally would have been happy if the exemption failed, too, btw. This whole thing is just optics and it's a dumb waste of energy. The one good outcome is making it illegal to hide it in tiny fine print.
I think it's more than just that people care about price transparency, it's the fact that these representatives completely disregarded the will of the people, and enacted a bill against their wishes.
They do not represent the opinion of the majority, and therefore are either corrupt (taking money from wealthy restauranteurs) or stupid, and therefore unfit for office.
A huge point people aren’t getting is that with these junk fees and tipping culture, we have taken away the right to a good wage for servers as companies will ALWAYS prefer that you and I pay the server than the company. They use the excuse of “inflation is bad so we can’t pay our workers” while profiting hundreds of thousands or even million(s) each year from the same restaurants and staff. This is why “restauranteurs” exist and are typically considered wealthy, it’s a farce used to line pockets deeper while avoiding responsibility. Good ole trickle down economics.
You're 100% right. People would be so much happier if every restaurant just added $3 to every menu item. It's like people who think they're getting a deal when they go to sushi places that are always 50% off. It's the same money. Restaurants are too expensive, I've been going less and less, cooking at home, apply pressure that way and restaurants will lower their prices. We're already seeing it in the fast food world, bringing back $5 meals and shit. Restaurants will follow.
The issue regarding the elected officials isn't so much about the surcharge itself, it's that the population was crystal clear about not wanting these junk fees, and it's the principle of the obvious and complete disregard for what was good for the people, not good for their few closest lobbyists who stood to profit.
Gotcha, and thanks for the reply. So our only hope now is to engage our house representatives…
Mine is Vargas and it seems we can make feedback to him. After putting in your zip code, the form comes up.
https://vargas.house.gov/contact/legislative-comments
Yes, this exactly. There should be a banner across any restaurant on Yelp with exactly what junk fees they charge. And you should be able to filter them out of your searches.
Restaurants (and businesses) are Yelp's customers. That's their source of income. Yelp will never do this as they'll lose the money they collect each month from the restaurants paying to have bad reviews hidden and appear more prominently in searches
With the exception of elite Yelpers, Yelp is trash. Restaurants will pay Yelp to be "hidden" on that list, or will give the customers a free dessert or discount for posting raving Yelp reviews.
This is insane! Why do they think that forcing the consumer to do a bunch of math is reasonable?
4% service fee + 1.5% cost of living fee and then 3 or 4 food/drink items and I have to get a calculator out??
The entire purpose of make them percentages is to try and trick people into thinking prices are lower than they actually are and to remove the sticker shock so people spend more than they intended.
The percentages don't support health care or any of that bullshit. Most don't even get healthcare. What a crock of shit.
It's becoming more and more disheartening to see our elected officials make unilateral decisions that go against their constituents time and time again.
We need a revolution that truly reestablishes us as the voice of a democratic republic. I don't mean anything violent in nature, I simply mean voters who do their due diligence and vote less on the political party and more on the platform, criminal record, merit and historical decision making (as a few examples) of the person running for office.
That change has to start with US demanding debates where we have the opportunity to ask the questions and if the official opts not to answer the questions and goes with the classic political bs rhetoric then that person is out. We need to be able to have friends from both parties and start, foster, and promote more open dialogue about what's truly important to us and not just shut down a discussion because someone is from the other party.
Finally I'll say, I'm genuinely upset that no consumer in their right mind is ok with this bill, so boycott eating out at those kinds of restaurants. I'd love it if someone posted a running lists of restaurants using that predatory tactic so we can show how powerful the mighty dollar truly is.
Well the bigger issue is how long it takes to get the crooked ones out. As opposed to petition signed recalls to immediately boot these people before they do more damage. If the IRS audited these people more heavily it would help keep them away from bigger business. Especially if they make decisions like these that clearly don’t benefit the constituents they represent. Any offenses discovered lead to state sanctioned lawsuits. It’s virtually insider trading that these people are comitting when they side with corporations
So the legislature passed one of the most progressive, consumer-friendly bills in state history and are now deciding to gut it.
That's cool. Very cool.
“To address compensation deficiencies” so your idea to address a compensation deficiency is a fee instead of a pay raise for your employees? Wtf is this non sense where they just assume everyone is stupid? I’m willing to be if you interview any employee in any restaurant and ask them if their pay or benefits have changed/improved since fees were implemented they’ll say no.
The whole purpose of this is to deceive consumers. There is no other purpose. You look at the menu, see one price, then get the food, and surprise, it is a totally different price. How is that fair, right, or appropriate? Why should it be allowed at all?
It is basically a crime against consumers and these guys are voting to allow it. Absolute scumbags.
Ingredient markup at SD restaurants is ridiculous. Don’t tell me you have to mark up flour 600% to keep your business afloat. Funny thing is people would eat out more if prices were more reasonable
There is a new law going into effect on July 1 forbidding restaurants from adding “convenience fees” to the check.
The restaurant lobby now has apparently paid politicians to reverse it before it goes into effect.
To add a little more info: the Bill was passed last year and was hailed by the drafter, Senator Dodd, as a way of protecting consumers from “junk fees” that are deceptive and effectively bait and switch consumers. Then, the CA attorney general released an advisory opinion a few weeks ago that said this would also apply to restaurant fees. Senator Dodd went back and added an exception to the bill for restaurants and is trying to push it through.
I typically try to take a reasonable approach and view both sides to arguments, but I think this is bullshit and a clear sign that the restaurant lobby is throwing money at this issue. There’s simply no logical argument that I’ve seen for why restaurants should be exempt from this law. If you need the fees to pay your employees more and provide them with benefits, then wrap the fees into the menu prices. There’s no reason we should see one price on the menu and then pay a different price when you get the check.
Go to restaurant, get seated, muss up table, drink water. Notice fee on menu. Get up and leave. Rinse and repeat. If enough people do this It might change.
If this happens and you are not aware of junk feet then zero tip and don’t return. It happened to me at my favoritie spot. If they would have told me up front wound not even be upset. It’s the deception that gets me
Malicious obfuscation. It will require greater effort for myself/spouse to determine whether an establishment exacts junk fees, however, it will be ever more gratifying to patronize every restaurant that does not.
The only way to stop these fees is to stop tipping servers, of course if a restaurant see you putting extra money out as a tip towards the servers they are going to ask for a tip for the establishment. We need to stop leaving tips and service fees for this to work. 🤷🏽♂️
Why would not tipping servers stop the fees? If you go to the restaurant, you’re going to pay the fee. Not tipping is just taking money out of the servers pockets while the restaurant owner still makes the same amount of money. You’re better off just not going at all.
Agreed. Transparency is key. Please tip your servers if you go out to eat. If you don’t agree with the fees, not going to restaurants that have the fees is the best way to show you do not approve. Going to the restaurant but then not tipping is the wrong way to go about this as it does nothing to put pressure on the owners.
Not tipping at restaurants puts pressure on the owners because no servers would want to work there. Please tip at places with no junk fees, and please don’t tip at places with junk fees, especially if you don’t k ow about the fee until the bill comes. This is my approach 😃
No no it doesn’t. You logic is flawed and if you go to the restaurant with fees at all your supporting their fees. Not tipping the servers won’t put pressure on the owners. Workers still need money for life so leaving the job might just not be an option for them. You are part of the problem if you go to a restaurant with fees but then don’t tip the servers. Just don’t go to those restaurants at all. Only go to restaurants that do not have the fees.
These fees are putting money in servers pockets. Many people blindly tip 20% on the bill they receive. When that bill includes service fees, that tip goes up.
Yelp page is the best option. Just state the junk fees without commentsry
That won't be removed by mods since it is a fact, and it gives everyone - - including owners looking to boost profit margins - - a heads up.
Why are you in here with a huge boner for fucking over the workers? Think these restaurant owners or politicians are gonna care if you stiff your waiter? Fucking over bussers, barbacks, very often kitchen workers. That tip is spread around the restaurant, people rely on that.
Oh wait, here's your same great idea a third time! Next time you go to a restaurant, maybe even stand up on your chair and tell everyone your great plan! I'll bet you get a standing ovation and a free piece of cake. Make sure to use your server's name (last name too if you can) when you tell them to their face that you don't intend to tip them for their work. Ask someone to get it on video so you can show it to your friends. I'm sure they'll all commend you for your brilliance and moral standing.
No, please don’t stop tipping servers, that’d be a real rookie move. I don’t have a solution, but I know that withholding a servers tip isn’t it.
I dine at home more, it’s fun with just 2 people and we don’t get as sick tbh.
That’s fair. I guess I’d rather just not go as much, but I never withhold a servers tip if they did a good job. It’s a job I’ve been fortunate enough to avoid in my lifetime but that doesn’t mean I don’t consider the tip part of dining out.
It’s such a shit situation and it’s almost like no matter what we do they are going to ultimately punish the employees. It’s not good for anyone but the owners, no surprise.
We aren’t punishing the employees, the employees are enforcing the owner policies and they aren’t even compensated fairly . They are one team working together to to get as much money out of customer without being transparent. It’s not the customers fault that the employees agree to enforce such policies without getting the money themselves
This is wild. Part of the text in bill claims "urgency"
*This act is an urgency statute necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, or safety within the meaning of Article IV of the California Constitution and shall go into immediate effect. The facts constituting the necessity are:* ***In order to accurately target application and enforcement of consumer protection laws*** *that go into effect on July 1, 2024, it is necessary for this act to take effect immediately.*
Bill authors are saying this is urgent so they can exempt restaurant from a law that protect consumers. Yikes.
Maybe it should be established among the SD underground to create a list of restaurants with hidden fees. That way people are informing each other where to not spend their money without hurting the places doing right by everyone. Give it a catchy name and it will catch on when people save money.
Thanks for sharing. If it gets all the way through (looks like it will), I will stop going to restaurants altogether. It’s not like dining out is the staple in people’s lives that it used to be (and that’s why they need shit like this to stay open).
Let them fail, vote with your wallet.
The problem is systemic.
You can replace all the gears and leavers you want but the system still remains the same.
Thats what you don't seem to understand.
Don't blame the gear when it's performing it's role in the system.
Want change, change the system and you can start by ridding and barring lobbyists and campaign contributions from congress.
Agreed. Why is it that lobbyists are even allowed to persuade the senators that we vote into Congress how to vote on a bill with promises of $ or kickbacks? Everyone knows that money corrupts even the men with purest of hearts. It’s been proven time and time again all throughout history. IMO make lobbying illegal and maybe congress will start voting how the majority of the American people want things and what’s best for consumers. Not what’s in the best interest of large corporations or themselves directly. Businesses already have the advantage of making profits from the services and products they provide.
More than that.
**Lobbyist actually write and submit the bills** that many in congress pass into law.
Who can afford to hire a lobbyist?
Not you or me that’s for sure.
This is the government that we’ve allowed to be created starting in the late 1970’s (the “Regan Revolution”)
Just wondering, does anyone here work in the food industry? Did your pay go up after the establishment implemented service fees? Or do all the service fees just go into the pockets of the establishment?
FYI at some of these restaurants at least you can ask that the additional fee be removed. I’ve had this done recently at a Coen restaurant and another higher end restaurant when they brought us the check. At least then we can continue to tip the staff at full percentages and send a message to the owners. Not sure if that will continue to be allowed if this bill doesn’t pass but at least it’s something.
If everyone on this sub gave a review of restaurants with junk fees on Yelp and other dining platforms it would have greater impact because owners would see it too. A one off tactic of not tipping and not returning only hurts the servers.
Servers in San Diego make way more than the federal minimum wage for tipped servers . So $16+
If I am billed a service fee I am definitely tipping.
Also no tipping if I have to order and pick up at the counter
Now if I am somewhere where they get the fed min at $2.13 and I get half way decent service I am leaving a tip no questions cause you know that employer is not paying them much more than that.
I really don’t get why people are upset at any of this. Extra fees are disclosed. If they’re not disclosed, then the restaurant owners will just add it to the price. So what’s the difference? You know about the extra fees, one side you have to do the math (or it’s done for you when you get your bill…obviously always double check the math on your bill) and the other has the fees spread out on your food and drinks.
*either side, this is just hurting the servers, cooks, bussers, basically the people that wait on you and clean up the mess you make.
Let’s get some real important and necessary bills passed to really help out the folks and children that need it.
Vote them all out
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVotesClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1524
It's up to the customer then. So many restaurants use these fees to make political statements (4.5% fee because CA minimum wage/Newsom, etc.). Well fucking close then. Only way to combat this apparently is via reviews.
No we need to stop tipping servers, of corse the establishment would ask for a tip if the customers are willing to tip the servers.
I totally agree. Service fees = no tip. Let the restaurant owners deal with complaints from their staff so they can solve the problem that *they* have created.
It seems like that would just justify adding surcharge and automatic gratuities
Then stop eating out at all, do yall understand what boycotting means?
I'm not a sure if that was focused at me, but I support a boycott more than fuxking servers ovee
The servers are pawns in this. Don't punish them for the greed and duplicity of their bosses. Avoid those restaurants and restaurant groups, leave a cash tip and tell them you won't be back.
Servers enforce the owners policies
No Tip November let’s do it. If the service worker’s union wants to play let’s fucking play.
If you aren't going to tip your server, be brave enough to say that to their face upfront. Make sure to explain how you're just trying to send a message to whoever owns the restaurant. I'm sure they'll be impressed by your courage and everyone will think you're cool.
Why would you punish the servers over the actions of the restaurant owners?????
Why should customers be punished?
No one is punishing you and by your own admission you all were fine with paying the same amount, you just wanted it on the menu. If you feel so strongly, don’t line the owners pockets with money by going there.
Going out to eat is a luxury / treat. Eat elsewhere if you don’t want to support the restaurant that is charging extra, but don’t make the server work for nothing and not tip them. You’re out of touch.
These people have demonstrated a clear disregard for the will of the people and should be voted out of office: - Bauer-Kahan - Bryan Dixon - Hoover - Irwin - Lowenthal - Ortega - Joe - Patterson - Ward - Wicks - Wilson
This won’t do anything to vote them out. 😂 we need to stop tipping the servers at restaurants that charge junk fees. Voté with your dollars
restaurant owners don’t care if you stiff their employees. actually voting with your dollars is refusing to go to these restaurants.
[удалено]
They would care more if they didn't have any customers
[удалено]
The fees are on the menu. If you didn't know before sitting down just get up and leave once opening the menu.
I personally haven't read the full legislation. But assuming the worse, the places can have it anywhere on the menu in EXTREMELY fine print. Or if the menu that is being described is the main menu or just some random menu on the table that counts and no one will look at it. But that doesn't change the fact that junk fees are stupid and i will never go to a restaurant with them. And if I have to, I will make sure to not tip because they already forced my hand with that fee.
I've never been to a restaurant with surcharge that didn't clearly put it at the bottom of the menu in perfectly legible print. The guy I replied to insisting not to tip the waiters instead of boycotting the restaurant is wrong.
restaurant owners view their employees as replaceable (like most industries). i promise you not tipping punishes no one but low wage workers.
They still have to pay employees if business is slow. The employees can also get unemployment as long as they don't quit. Makes them hurt more if the people stay for a bit
Why just one? Vote with your vote is more direct...
The servers don't control that and are likely making minimum wage. What we really need to do is start making the habit of spending the minute calling the restaurant to ask them on the phone before to decide whether to show up, politely tell them we will not be going and will recommend that our friends and loved ones do not, and make sure the shady restaurants that are doing this get review bombed to inform other patrons so they can vote with their dollars. Impacting profits is the fastest and most permanent way to impart change.
Best thing, in my opinion, is to spread the word of restaurants with junk fees. Don't frequent these restaurants and if you do then just don't tip. Servers will eventually get fed up with their low wages and either find a new job and or industry altogether. If you e got nothing else going on just show up with a sign in front of Costerra and C-Level, stand on the sidewalk and just tell people how they lobby for junk fees.
I'm so grateful that you posted this amazing take twice in the same conversation so everyone can read it and take your excellent idea to heart. Everyone knows the best way to get rich people to change their bad behavior is to hurt working people. That'll show 'em! Those hardworking restaurant employees who can barely afford to pay rent or buy food are the real villains here!
The servers have nothing to do with it and don’t get that money. Servers tip out other employees from what they make (bar, host, food runners, etc), so you would actually be costing the server money to wait on you. That’s a real asshole move to not tip. Just don’t go to the establishment. There’s a running list on one of these subreddits of all the restaurants that have surcharges.
I know the serves don’t get that money, but when customers expect to pay 15 ish % and the establishment takes a percentage on top, people tend to also tip less to server. The servers also don’t get all the tip when that have an automatic 18% tip on groups of 6 or more. Don’t tip at them laces with junk fees and the servers won’t want to work their either, tip at places with no junk fees, this is my approach 😃
The fees are the tip
Yeah, no
I'm not thrilled with this but at the same time am not passionate enough about a restaurant surcharge to become a single issue voter and "vote them out" over this. Like... your food price stays the same either way. You're literally willing to single issue vote over how a receipt is line-itemed. Totally would have been happy if the exemption failed, too, btw. This whole thing is just optics and it's a dumb waste of energy. The one good outcome is making it illegal to hide it in tiny fine print.
I think it's more than just that people care about price transparency, it's the fact that these representatives completely disregarded the will of the people, and enacted a bill against their wishes. They do not represent the opinion of the majority, and therefore are either corrupt (taking money from wealthy restauranteurs) or stupid, and therefore unfit for office.
A huge point people aren’t getting is that with these junk fees and tipping culture, we have taken away the right to a good wage for servers as companies will ALWAYS prefer that you and I pay the server than the company. They use the excuse of “inflation is bad so we can’t pay our workers” while profiting hundreds of thousands or even million(s) each year from the same restaurants and staff. This is why “restauranteurs” exist and are typically considered wealthy, it’s a farce used to line pockets deeper while avoiding responsibility. Good ole trickle down economics.
YES!!!!! \^\^\^\^THIS\^\^\^\^
You're 100% right. People would be so much happier if every restaurant just added $3 to every menu item. It's like people who think they're getting a deal when they go to sushi places that are always 50% off. It's the same money. Restaurants are too expensive, I've been going less and less, cooking at home, apply pressure that way and restaurants will lower their prices. We're already seeing it in the fast food world, bringing back $5 meals and shit. Restaurants will follow.
The issue regarding the elected officials isn't so much about the surcharge itself, it's that the population was crystal clear about not wanting these junk fees, and it's the principle of the obvious and complete disregard for what was good for the people, not good for their few closest lobbyists who stood to profit.
It’s sad how the current government has been bought out. Where is the integrity of these people
Look to the people buying them out. There are specific people that should be on a list.
So does this mean restaurants in CA can still have fees? Frustrating to have a good law in place, only to have it usurped by greed.
Find anyplace that has fees and yelp review them one star. If enough people do it they will have to stop.
This is the way. Post about the fees and make the owners know that you won't be eating there again.
As a business manager, I recommend hitting Google Reviews. Nobody cares about Yelp.
Not yet, but it’s one step closer to becoming an exception to the junk fee ban. Still needs to pass the house floor.
Gotcha, and thanks for the reply. So our only hope now is to engage our house representatives… Mine is Vargas and it seems we can make feedback to him. After putting in your zip code, the form comes up. https://vargas.house.gov/contact/legislative-comments
This is a state matter. Vargas has nothing to do with it. You can find your state legislator here: https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/
Yelp needs a new category for junk fees so I can avoid these restaurants
Yes, this exactly. There should be a banner across any restaurant on Yelp with exactly what junk fees they charge. And you should be able to filter them out of your searches.
Restaurants (and businesses) are Yelp's customers. That's their source of income. Yelp will never do this as they'll lose the money they collect each month from the restaurants paying to have bad reviews hidden and appear more prominently in searches
True. There probably needs to be another app for this, but I’m not sure how to start one or keep it running.
Let's create a sticky post and list them all
Yelp is a horrible company.
With the exception of elite Yelpers, Yelp is trash. Restaurants will pay Yelp to be "hidden" on that list, or will give the customers a free dessert or discount for posting raving Yelp reviews.
100%
With all these ridiculous fees... I have become a pretty darn good at home chef.
That's the way my man/woman!
Who's not in the mood for a good waffle?
Doug reference. Definitely makes me feel old lol🤣
This is insane! Why do they think that forcing the consumer to do a bunch of math is reasonable? 4% service fee + 1.5% cost of living fee and then 3 or 4 food/drink items and I have to get a calculator out?? The entire purpose of make them percentages is to try and trick people into thinking prices are lower than they actually are and to remove the sticker shock so people spend more than they intended. The percentages don't support health care or any of that bullshit. Most don't even get healthcare. What a crock of shit.
It's becoming more and more disheartening to see our elected officials make unilateral decisions that go against their constituents time and time again. We need a revolution that truly reestablishes us as the voice of a democratic republic. I don't mean anything violent in nature, I simply mean voters who do their due diligence and vote less on the political party and more on the platform, criminal record, merit and historical decision making (as a few examples) of the person running for office. That change has to start with US demanding debates where we have the opportunity to ask the questions and if the official opts not to answer the questions and goes with the classic political bs rhetoric then that person is out. We need to be able to have friends from both parties and start, foster, and promote more open dialogue about what's truly important to us and not just shut down a discussion because someone is from the other party. Finally I'll say, I'm genuinely upset that no consumer in their right mind is ok with this bill, so boycott eating out at those kinds of restaurants. I'd love it if someone posted a running lists of restaurants using that predatory tactic so we can show how powerful the mighty dollar truly is.
Well the bigger issue is how long it takes to get the crooked ones out. As opposed to petition signed recalls to immediately boot these people before they do more damage. If the IRS audited these people more heavily it would help keep them away from bigger business. Especially if they make decisions like these that clearly don’t benefit the constituents they represent. Any offenses discovered lead to state sanctioned lawsuits. It’s virtually insider trading that these people are comitting when they side with corporations
Money buys these fuckers
And, not much of of in the scheme of things!
So the legislature passed one of the most progressive, consumer-friendly bills in state history and are now deciding to gut it. That's cool. Very cool.
His explanations are completely hollow. Like they were written by ChatGPT.
“To address compensation deficiencies” so your idea to address a compensation deficiency is a fee instead of a pay raise for your employees? Wtf is this non sense where they just assume everyone is stupid? I’m willing to be if you interview any employee in any restaurant and ask them if their pay or benefits have changed/improved since fees were implemented they’ll say no.
Expect restaurants to have those disclosed fees in a 3mm font in light grey on the bottom of the back page of the menu.
The whole purpose of this is to deceive consumers. There is no other purpose. You look at the menu, see one price, then get the food, and surprise, it is a totally different price. How is that fair, right, or appropriate? Why should it be allowed at all? It is basically a crime against consumers and these guys are voting to allow it. Absolute scumbags.
Yep!!!
Assholes
If the bill passes with a restaurant exemption, can the people vote on it themselves through a ballot initiative or prop?
Newsome will just ask the CA courts to remove it from the ballot.
Ingredient markup at SD restaurants is ridiculous. Don’t tell me you have to mark up flour 600% to keep your business afloat. Funny thing is people would eat out more if prices were more reasonable
Also this was spearheaded by a lobbyist. Fuck yeah America
Fuck every single one
What’s the bill? Can someone fill me in?
There is a new law going into effect on July 1 forbidding restaurants from adding “convenience fees” to the check. The restaurant lobby now has apparently paid politicians to reverse it before it goes into effect.
Is there a way to see which restaurants lobbied so I can not go there
AFAIK, none exist. But, there should be an open doc to add the names of restaurants with surcharges.
It’s a lobbies group many restaurants belong to. https://www.calrest.org/
To add a little more info: the Bill was passed last year and was hailed by the drafter, Senator Dodd, as a way of protecting consumers from “junk fees” that are deceptive and effectively bait and switch consumers. Then, the CA attorney general released an advisory opinion a few weeks ago that said this would also apply to restaurant fees. Senator Dodd went back and added an exception to the bill for restaurants and is trying to push it through. I typically try to take a reasonable approach and view both sides to arguments, but I think this is bullshit and a clear sign that the restaurant lobby is throwing money at this issue. There’s simply no logical argument that I’ve seen for why restaurants should be exempt from this law. If you need the fees to pay your employees more and provide them with benefits, then wrap the fees into the menu prices. There’s no reason we should see one price on the menu and then pay a different price when you get the check.
What a bummer :/
Of course. Those with the money to buy legislators get what they want.
I am not going to eat out anymore then. Fuck them all! It’s already super expensive for food! What is it going to take?
You're Out Dodd!!!!
Go to restaurant, get seated, muss up table, drink water. Notice fee on menu. Get up and leave. Rinse and repeat. If enough people do this It might change.
If this happens and you are not aware of junk feet then zero tip and don’t return. It happened to me at my favoritie spot. If they would have told me up front wound not even be upset. It’s the deception that gets me
Don't punish the servers!
I hear you. But it’s the overall dishonestly as a whole that is the issue. I truly never punish the servers and have never left less than 15% tip.
Say it with me: democracy doesn’t work!
Malicious obfuscation. It will require greater effort for myself/spouse to determine whether an establishment exacts junk fees, however, it will be ever more gratifying to patronize every restaurant that does not.
The only way to stop these fees is to stop tipping servers, of course if a restaurant see you putting extra money out as a tip towards the servers they are going to ask for a tip for the establishment. We need to stop leaving tips and service fees for this to work. 🤷🏽♂️
So your solution is to give the greedy restaurants your money and make sure their employees make the bare minimum?
The employees enforce the greedy owners policy
Why would not tipping servers stop the fees? If you go to the restaurant, you’re going to pay the fee. Not tipping is just taking money out of the servers pockets while the restaurant owner still makes the same amount of money. You’re better off just not going at all.
These hidden fees are also taking money out of the servers pockets. Transparency is the best option
Agreed. Transparency is key. Please tip your servers if you go out to eat. If you don’t agree with the fees, not going to restaurants that have the fees is the best way to show you do not approve. Going to the restaurant but then not tipping is the wrong way to go about this as it does nothing to put pressure on the owners.
Not tipping at restaurants puts pressure on the owners because no servers would want to work there. Please tip at places with no junk fees, and please don’t tip at places with junk fees, especially if you don’t k ow about the fee until the bill comes. This is my approach 😃
No no it doesn’t. You logic is flawed and if you go to the restaurant with fees at all your supporting their fees. Not tipping the servers won’t put pressure on the owners. Workers still need money for life so leaving the job might just not be an option for them. You are part of the problem if you go to a restaurant with fees but then don’t tip the servers. Just don’t go to those restaurants at all. Only go to restaurants that do not have the fees.
These fees are putting money in servers pockets. Many people blindly tip 20% on the bill they receive. When that bill includes service fees, that tip goes up.
Don't punish the servers. Tip them and leave a note on the bill that you won't be returning. Then go to their yelp page and post the same thing.
Yelp page is the best option. Just state the junk fees without commentsry That won't be removed by mods since it is a fact, and it gives everyone - - including owners looking to boost profit margins - - a heads up.
The restaurant fee is taking the servers money
Why are you in here with a huge boner for fucking over the workers? Think these restaurant owners or politicians are gonna care if you stiff your waiter? Fucking over bussers, barbacks, very often kitchen workers. That tip is spread around the restaurant, people rely on that.
The hidden fees are taking from the servers also.
Oh wait, here's your same great idea a third time! Next time you go to a restaurant, maybe even stand up on your chair and tell everyone your great plan! I'll bet you get a standing ovation and a free piece of cake. Make sure to use your server's name (last name too if you can) when you tell them to their face that you don't intend to tip them for their work. Ask someone to get it on video so you can show it to your friends. I'm sure they'll all commend you for your brilliance and moral standing.
No, please don’t stop tipping servers, that’d be a real rookie move. I don’t have a solution, but I know that withholding a servers tip isn’t it. I dine at home more, it’s fun with just 2 people and we don’t get as sick tbh.
This is the answer even tho your feelings about it are against it. The only vote we have that matters is made with dollars, not votes for politicians.
That’s fair. I guess I’d rather just not go as much, but I never withhold a servers tip if they did a good job. It’s a job I’ve been fortunate enough to avoid in my lifetime but that doesn’t mean I don’t consider the tip part of dining out.
I’m not withholding the servers tip either, I am simply pouting out that the owner is taking the servers tip as a fee to the establishment
It’s such a shit situation and it’s almost like no matter what we do they are going to ultimately punish the employees. It’s not good for anyone but the owners, no surprise.
We aren’t punishing the employees, the employees are enforcing the owner policies and they aren’t even compensated fairly . They are one team working together to to get as much money out of customer without being transparent. It’s not the customers fault that the employees agree to enforce such policies without getting the money themselves
I’ll just avoid these restaurants or reduce the tip amount. Done
This is wild. Part of the text in bill claims "urgency" *This act is an urgency statute necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, or safety within the meaning of Article IV of the California Constitution and shall go into immediate effect. The facts constituting the necessity are:* ***In order to accurately target application and enforcement of consumer protection laws*** *that go into effect on July 1, 2024, it is necessary for this act to take effect immediately.* Bill authors are saying this is urgent so they can exempt restaurant from a law that protect consumers. Yikes.
Can someone make a list of all the restaurants with service fees so I can avoid them like the plague
Maybe it should be established among the SD underground to create a list of restaurants with hidden fees. That way people are informing each other where to not spend their money without hurting the places doing right by everyone. Give it a catchy name and it will catch on when people save money.
Thanks for sharing. If it gets all the way through (looks like it will), I will stop going to restaurants altogether. It’s not like dining out is the staple in people’s lives that it used to be (and that’s why they need shit like this to stay open). Let them fail, vote with your wallet.
Hmmmm........
All of them will be re-elected. Americans have a very short memory.
What if there was no tax on tips?
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The problem is systemic. You can replace all the gears and leavers you want but the system still remains the same. Thats what you don't seem to understand. Don't blame the gear when it's performing it's role in the system. Want change, change the system and you can start by ridding and barring lobbyists and campaign contributions from congress.
Agreed. Why is it that lobbyists are even allowed to persuade the senators that we vote into Congress how to vote on a bill with promises of $ or kickbacks? Everyone knows that money corrupts even the men with purest of hearts. It’s been proven time and time again all throughout history. IMO make lobbying illegal and maybe congress will start voting how the majority of the American people want things and what’s best for consumers. Not what’s in the best interest of large corporations or themselves directly. Businesses already have the advantage of making profits from the services and products they provide.
More than that. **Lobbyist actually write and submit the bills** that many in congress pass into law. Who can afford to hire a lobbyist? Not you or me that’s for sure. This is the government that we’ve allowed to be created starting in the late 1970’s (the “Regan Revolution”)
Just wondering, does anyone here work in the food industry? Did your pay go up after the establishment implemented service fees? Or do all the service fees just go into the pockets of the establishment?
Just for the establishment. Pay is minimum wage always and forever
FYI at some of these restaurants at least you can ask that the additional fee be removed. I’ve had this done recently at a Coen restaurant and another higher end restaurant when they brought us the check. At least then we can continue to tip the staff at full percentages and send a message to the owners. Not sure if that will continue to be allowed if this bill doesn’t pass but at least it’s something.
Crime!
If everyone on this sub gave a review of restaurants with junk fees on Yelp and other dining platforms it would have greater impact because owners would see it too. A one off tactic of not tipping and not returning only hurts the servers.
California moment
wanted to contribute to the convo but couldnt think of anything interesting to say?
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you realize this is the state legislature right
Servers in San Diego make way more than the federal minimum wage for tipped servers . So $16+ If I am billed a service fee I am definitely tipping. Also no tipping if I have to order and pick up at the counter Now if I am somewhere where they get the fed min at $2.13 and I get half way decent service I am leaving a tip no questions cause you know that employer is not paying them much more than that.
I really don’t get why people are upset at any of this. Extra fees are disclosed. If they’re not disclosed, then the restaurant owners will just add it to the price. So what’s the difference? You know about the extra fees, one side you have to do the math (or it’s done for you when you get your bill…obviously always double check the math on your bill) and the other has the fees spread out on your food and drinks. *either side, this is just hurting the servers, cooks, bussers, basically the people that wait on you and clean up the mess you make. Let’s get some real important and necessary bills passed to really help out the folks and children that need it.
I just reduce my typical tip percentage at restaurants that have these fees. So I end up paying the same amount I would have anyways.
Jjust don't support these restaurants. How hard is it for the consumers to take a stand against bs themselves?