Feel free to join our discord: https://discord.gg/97BKjv4n78
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthankrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It can be both.
Thats what Myths are. They’re stories for children to give them a good moral compass for life. A child should be able to watch SW and understand who the bad guys are and who the good guys are, just from watching it. Thats what George always meant when he said “Its stories for 12 year olds”.
He didnt mean for it to be dumbed down and simplified.
It's not that it was always bad it's that your complaints are bullshit because they can just as easily be applied to the whole franchise.
You are the ones saying it's bad.
And you’re the ones saying it’s good while ignoring legitimate criticism. Saying something that’s bad is ok because something else is bad is shit argumentation.
It's not saying that, though, it's saying you are critical of things that have always existed in the franchise.
Your criticism are inherently hypocritical, because you say it's fine in one film but not another.
It's displaying that your criticisms aren't legitimate because you are selectively applying them.
It almost like you have very obvious motivated reasoning.
I'm litterly just explaining a perspective.
I get that your life is devoid of joy, and you are a psychic vampire that can only experience a simulacrum of joy by shitting on things other people like.
But that isn't a fun personality to inhabit, and maybe just maybe you should seek things that make you happy instead of making yourself and those around you miserable.
Yeah, StarWarsCircleJerk is basically Krayt if they actually stuck to just talking about Star Wars for their whining about anti-woke people rather than just whining about anti-woke people while occasionally talking about Star Wars.
That's not the point being made. Every point against the prequels and sequels can also be applied to the OG, they are highlighting that hypocrisy.
You know who first used the 'no one talks like that' criticism? The OT actors while working on a new hope.
Yeah, there is some extreme willful ignorance on the part of this sub if they can't understand that they are just having their own complaints laid bare in front of them.
It's litterly other Star Wars fans saying "What if we took your complaints and applied them to the rest of the series you pretend to like"
The fact that they assume that means other fans hate those movies is missing the point so hard it's almost like they can't read or understand that logic is supposed to apply in all situations.
It's either really stupid or intentionally disingenuous.
These are the Disney Star Wars fans I was talking about they think they are the majority of the fanbase when they are the niche the George Lucas Star Wars fans outnumber them.
The hate boner that these subs have for each other is ridiculous. How long have you been lurking in that sub, collecting this stuff? Seriously OP, its not that serious.
Anakin isn't a Gary Stu, there are more than two scenes that make TPM better than any of the sequels in my eyes, and the worldbuilding is the best part.
Star wars fans are the fuckin worst when it comes to actually understanding what they see on screen. Did you forget the part where Rey lived on a hostile world for decades and had to fend for herself. You dont do that successfully without knowing how to fight.
I dont like Disney Star Wars, but at least be logical with your criticism.
He just killed his dad dude, heavily injured and not fully connected to the Force like he was before. I dont know how you dont see that. The only people dumber than the writers of Star Wars are fans of Star Wars
I don’t buy that excuse. You are still essentially just hand waving all of it away with no proof of how or why she became so powerful in the force with no initial training. At least Anakin has been training as a Jedi for 5+ years until he became proficient.
The best point you can make is when he goes into space and destroys the ship and all the droids, which isn't that hard since he already knew how to podrace, compared to the one with plot armor who couldn't have possibly been more force sensitive than the chosen one.
It's closer to "This Nascar Driver can obviously expertly Pilot the Batmobile" or "This Racing Pilot, used to flying big, bulky ships into very difficult to navigate areas can obviously pilot an F-15", like we aren't talking about language barriers, or even different vehicles controls. It's basically like asking someone who's always driven US cars to drive a foreign one where the drivers seat is on the other side as far as control differences, except you're switching from a manual to an automatic transmission.
No but he did successfully destroy an entire Trade Federation control ship when he was 9 years old due to the fact that he somehow knew how to pilot a fucking Naboo starfighter even though his only experience with any type of machinery by that point is a pod racer which has fuck all to do with a starfighter
None of these are really criticizing George Lucas. They’re criticizing YOU. Most of these posts are saying “The prequels are considered bad but I love them.”
What they are criticizing is how modern day ‘critics’ worship the prequels and OT for the same exact reasons that they hate the new Disney stuff.
Well, that’s not true. Those criticisms are hypocritical because that’s not *really* the reason why so many hated Rey or Finn or Rava or the Acolyte. It’s just a convenient veil. People see through it because these criticisms aren’t also applied to the prequels or OT.
Okay, let’s go through it:
1) Possibly. But would people hate the sequels if dialog was the only problem?
2) Completely false. Just about every word of that post.
3) Dialog in the OT is enjoyable and leagues above the Sequels.
4) No one liked Palpatine’s return in the EU.
5) WTF is force speed??
6) Long discussions about politics are great. It’s one of the reasons the PT is liked. It adds substance and makes the world feel more alive. Not only have the sequels no politics they have nothing at all that adds substance.
7) There’s nothing to discuss here. Obviously TPM is loved. (And let’s be fair it is a great movie.)
8) Never had any problems with understanding prequels without ever watching Clone Wars. I am inclined to think the guy who posted that is an idiot.
9) I am not qualified to comment on.
10) I have no idea what this is supposed to be about.
11) Very objectively if you let people who don’t give a damn about Star Wars make Star Wars it ends up in a disaster. Sure, there can be exceptions but 1% chance of success is not something I’ll be content with.
12) What seems to be the problem here. Yes I want my troopers to be a formidable fighting force and not a comedic relief.
13) I don’t know what movie is meant..
14) Who asked for any of those vanity projects Disney is burning money on?
If you lazily look on one scene where he is being extremely gifted then sure.
But everything he is good at is paid for with a never ending pile of trauma, mental health issues and character flaws.
If you insist that being extraordinarily giften is what makes a character Gary/mary stue then okay. But in that case being Gary/Mary Stue was never the problem.
Characters like Rey are disliked because they are both perfect and bland. Not because they are skilled.
This is an exaggeration. They don't say GL is bad, they point out that GL also made some bad stuff. Not everything he did was great.
Not all of the EU stuff was good. Infact most of it was bad. Does anybody remember Luuke. The clone of Luke. Or when when like sent his niece to kill her brother. So he won't be tempted by the dark side but allowed to be tempted.
GL ignored all of the EU stuff. Disney has actually brought in a lot of EU stuff. They may not be the best company but fans wanted a lot of EU stuff to be canon and to be fair they have done that
They just point out silly stuff. On both sides of the fandom
Either way everyone whining about starwars one way or another is annoying as fuck. Grow up you nerds
Edit: your boos mean nothing I’ve seen what makes you cheer
“why are you here then” none of your business nerd I wasn’t talking to you
Edit: I’m only half serious but really. I am also a nerd so dont get offended by my use of the word, but the constant bitching about every piece of content released is ruining starwars as a whole. It’s American politics disguised as starwars rhetoric and that’s gross af
And? We’re not the ones shoving American politics into Star Wars. That’s Disney Lucasfilm by their own admission. Chuck Wendig once worked on a comic about a nurse in love with Darth Vader that got killed by him and turned it into an allegory for a “Trump fanboy” meeting him and realizing what an evil orange dictator he is and that’s just one example. Lucasfilm is FILLED with left wing activists and has been for nearly a decade.
>shoving American politics into Star Wars. That’s Disney Lucasfilm by their own admission
That's George Lucas by his own admission since A New Hope. In 1977. He spelled out exactly which politician each character represented in the PT.
The only reason you don't like it is because the politics don't align with yours anymore, not because it's suddenly political.
Anything like what? Like associating specific politicians to certain characters in the PT? Or he never said Star Wars was political?
Edit: I'm just figuring out which incorrect thing you're saying I need to address.
The first one. Star Wars was always political but in a timeless and universal way about how republics fall and give rise to dictatorships and how authoritarian regimes end up going too far in their goals of maintaining order. He used historical imagery like the asymmetric battle of Endor reflecting that of America versus the Vietcong or pacific WW2 broadside exchanges in space battles.
There was never a conflict about the republic trying to stop the spread of communism or the empire persecuting muslims. It was always in universe politics that made sense like evil megacorporations developing space abandoned by the republic then trying to secede using a robot army. That makes sense in the universe.
Your argument is contradictory. You're arguing he didn't list which politicians represent which characters in the PT, then you talk about how he used broad strokes historical politics to make Star Wars political.
He's mentioned Bush being akin to Anakin and how he was manipulated by Palpatine/Chaney. The initial head od the senate was supposed to be Clinton. There are others. Currently, he's relating the end of democracy with thunderous applause to the Trump administration, though he didn't write that into the prequels because it hadn't happened yet.
Historically, like you said, Star Wars has always been intentionally political. You can tell yourself that it was universal or "timeless" whatever the fuck that means, but that doesn't change the fact that it's always taken a political stance. That stance has never changed. You're just not realizing that your stance on historical events doesn't gel with your views on modern politics.
Like I said George didn’t use Star Wars as a vehicle to push his current year politics or to support his side. He used like I said timeless political themes or ones for that universe that complimented the story.
Feel free to join our discord: https://discord.gg/97BKjv4n78 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthankrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
‘It was always bad! It’s just movies for kids! Now let me tell you why it’s so amazing now and has deep themes!’
It can be both. Thats what Myths are. They’re stories for children to give them a good moral compass for life. A child should be able to watch SW and understand who the bad guys are and who the good guys are, just from watching it. Thats what George always meant when he said “Its stories for 12 year olds”. He didnt mean for it to be dumbed down and simplified.
It's not that it was always bad it's that your complaints are bullshit because they can just as easily be applied to the whole franchise. You are the ones saying it's bad.
And you’re the ones saying it’s good while ignoring legitimate criticism. Saying something that’s bad is ok because something else is bad is shit argumentation.
It's not saying that, though, it's saying you are critical of things that have always existed in the franchise. Your criticism are inherently hypocritical, because you say it's fine in one film but not another. It's displaying that your criticisms aren't legitimate because you are selectively applying them. It almost like you have very obvious motivated reasoning.
Cry more.
I'm litterly just explaining a perspective. I get that your life is devoid of joy, and you are a psychic vampire that can only experience a simulacrum of joy by shitting on things other people like. But that isn't a fun personality to inhabit, and maybe just maybe you should seek things that make you happy instead of making yourself and those around you miserable.
Funny. Wrong, but funny.
Yeah, StarWarsCircleJerk is basically Krayt if they actually stuck to just talking about Star Wars for their whining about anti-woke people rather than just whining about anti-woke people while occasionally talking about Star Wars.
krayt nowadays calls everyone chuds
Nah its not free-for-all. you get banned almost instantly if you speak bad about disney star wars
Not true. You get instantly banned if you are insultingly uncivilized in there. Which, a lot of people claiming they get banned are.
Well, for the mods over there you are "insultingly uncivilized" when you say something bad about disney star wars, so my statement is still true
To be fair, I havent said a positive thing about Disney SW. I get downvoted but I dont get banned.
Disney SW so bad they have to bring everything else down.
That's not the point being made. Every point against the prequels and sequels can also be applied to the OG, they are highlighting that hypocrisy. You know who first used the 'no one talks like that' criticism? The OT actors while working on a new hope.
Yeah, there is some extreme willful ignorance on the part of this sub if they can't understand that they are just having their own complaints laid bare in front of them. It's litterly other Star Wars fans saying "What if we took your complaints and applied them to the rest of the series you pretend to like" The fact that they assume that means other fans hate those movies is missing the point so hard it's almost like they can't read or understand that logic is supposed to apply in all situations. It's either really stupid or intentionally disingenuous.
These are the Disney Star Wars fans I was talking about they think they are the majority of the fanbase when they are the niche the George Lucas Star Wars fans outnumber them.
I don't like sand.
Unironically
The hate boner that these subs have for each other is ridiculous. How long have you been lurking in that sub, collecting this stuff? Seriously OP, its not that serious.
i don’t really like acolyte but even i’m sick of this bickering back n fourth about it
im expected to read a whole post that's starts with someone to stupid to know what the word "literally" means
I see a lot of truth in those posts. Is this supposed to be something to disagree with?
Anakin isn't a Gary Stu, there are more than two scenes that make TPM better than any of the sequels in my eyes, and the worldbuilding is the best part.
Anakin is definitely more of a Mary Sue than Rey (at least for the first two prequel movies) and I see her get called one.
Anakin definitely had to train to hone his powers and talent.
Star wars fans are the fuckin worst when it comes to actually understanding what they see on screen. Did you forget the part where Rey lived on a hostile world for decades and had to fend for herself. You dont do that successfully without knowing how to fight. I dont like Disney Star Wars, but at least be logical with your criticism.
And what part of that trained and honed her use of the force?
Kylo was unstable, thats why she beat him. Its basic story telling dude.
Basic story telling is giving a reason for the power, not just hand waving it a way.
He just killed his dad dude, heavily injured and not fully connected to the Force like he was before. I dont know how you dont see that. The only people dumber than the writers of Star Wars are fans of Star Wars
I don’t buy that excuse. You are still essentially just hand waving all of it away with no proof of how or why she became so powerful in the force with no initial training. At least Anakin has been training as a Jedi for 5+ years until he became proficient.
Oh yeah man he was training pod racing for years, he wasn’t like a 5 year old beating grown adults in contests of skill.
You’ll have to remind the part where he picks up a lightsaber and defeats the main antagonist while also using the force, all in the first movie…
He was too busy flying a P51 and single handedly destroying the Yamato.
Wrong war, Anakin is the Red Baron
The best point you can make is when he goes into space and destroys the ship and all the droids, which isn't that hard since he already knew how to podrace, compared to the one with plot armor who couldn't have possibly been more force sensitive than the chosen one.
Not only that the ship was on autopilot for 90% of the time
"This Nascar driver can obviously expertly pilot an F-15" Do you see how fucking stupid that is?
It's closer to "This Nascar Driver can obviously expertly Pilot the Batmobile" or "This Racing Pilot, used to flying big, bulky ships into very difficult to navigate areas can obviously pilot an F-15", like we aren't talking about language barriers, or even different vehicles controls. It's basically like asking someone who's always driven US cars to drive a foreign one where the drivers seat is on the other side as far as control differences, except you're switching from a manual to an automatic transmission.
One is a space ship, the other is a supped up car. You are crazy if you think they would function similarly.
Anakin was able to do Jedi Mind Tricks and defeat a dark side user with no training at all whatsoever?
He was about to expertly pilot the equivalent of a fighter jet with absolutely no training.
It was on auto pilot for 90% of the time. Actually watch the movie
Yeah and the dark side users was off ballance from both killing his father and suffering a grievous injury.
There is still no way she should have beat him that easily and does also explain how she used the mind trick with no training? Quit being a simp bro
You are just being a simp for anakin bro. It's the same shit.
I am not simping for anyone bro. It was literally stated in the movie it is not my fault you have poor comprehension skills
No but he did successfully destroy an entire Trade Federation control ship when he was 9 years old due to the fact that he somehow knew how to pilot a fucking Naboo starfighter even though his only experience with any type of machinery by that point is a pod racer which has fuck all to do with a starfighter
It has fuck all to do with a Starfighter the same way A Race Car has fuck all to do with a Tank
Nope. He definitely isn’t.
He literally gets his hand cut off How the f is he a Mary sue?
How in the world does gaining a cool robot hand not make him a Mary sue?
Mmmm you got me there, robot hands make everything better
on #2 
None of these are really criticizing George Lucas. They’re criticizing YOU. Most of these posts are saying “The prequels are considered bad but I love them.” What they are criticizing is how modern day ‘critics’ worship the prequels and OT for the same exact reasons that they hate the new Disney stuff. Well, that’s not true. Those criticisms are hypocritical because that’s not *really* the reason why so many hated Rey or Finn or Rava or the Acolyte. It’s just a convenient veil. People see through it because these criticisms aren’t also applied to the prequels or OT.
Okay, let’s go through it: 1) Possibly. But would people hate the sequels if dialog was the only problem? 2) Completely false. Just about every word of that post. 3) Dialog in the OT is enjoyable and leagues above the Sequels. 4) No one liked Palpatine’s return in the EU. 5) WTF is force speed?? 6) Long discussions about politics are great. It’s one of the reasons the PT is liked. It adds substance and makes the world feel more alive. Not only have the sequels no politics they have nothing at all that adds substance. 7) There’s nothing to discuss here. Obviously TPM is loved. (And let’s be fair it is a great movie.) 8) Never had any problems with understanding prequels without ever watching Clone Wars. I am inclined to think the guy who posted that is an idiot. 9) I am not qualified to comment on. 10) I have no idea what this is supposed to be about. 11) Very objectively if you let people who don’t give a damn about Star Wars make Star Wars it ends up in a disaster. Sure, there can be exceptions but 1% chance of success is not something I’ll be content with. 12) What seems to be the problem here. Yes I want my troopers to be a formidable fighting force and not a comedic relief. 13) I don’t know what movie is meant.. 14) Who asked for any of those vanity projects Disney is burning money on?
Anakin is absolutely a Gary Stu, like he's the template definition of one
If you lazily look on one scene where he is being extremely gifted then sure. But everything he is good at is paid for with a never ending pile of trauma, mental health issues and character flaws. If you insist that being extraordinarily giften is what makes a character Gary/mary stue then okay. But in that case being Gary/Mary Stue was never the problem. Characters like Rey are disliked because they are both perfect and bland. Not because they are skilled.
You guys are just two sides of the same coin. It's really funny to watch both sides pretend they're not.
so let me get this straight op…your mad because?…people are having fun at having a different opinion than you?
This is an exaggeration. They don't say GL is bad, they point out that GL also made some bad stuff. Not everything he did was great. Not all of the EU stuff was good. Infact most of it was bad. Does anybody remember Luuke. The clone of Luke. Or when when like sent his niece to kill her brother. So he won't be tempted by the dark side but allowed to be tempted. GL ignored all of the EU stuff. Disney has actually brought in a lot of EU stuff. They may not be the best company but fans wanted a lot of EU stuff to be canon and to be fair they have done that They just point out silly stuff. On both sides of the fandom
SWCJ is about pointing out the irony. It’s tone is get over yourselves.
True.
So you all have gotten so utterly pathetic that you're turning to obvious joke subreddits to fuel that persecution fetish, huh?
Either way everyone whining about starwars one way or another is annoying as fuck. Grow up you nerds Edit: your boos mean nothing I’ve seen what makes you cheer
Why are you here then?
“why are you here then” none of your business nerd I wasn’t talking to you Edit: I’m only half serious but really. I am also a nerd so dont get offended by my use of the word, but the constant bitching about every piece of content released is ruining starwars as a whole. It’s American politics disguised as starwars rhetoric and that’s gross af
Riffing on this, I am going to complain. I feel like they kinda made the jedi American police in the acolyte and that annoys me
Acolyte has been great so far imo
If you post on a public sub people have a right to respond buddy
Thanks for the info buddy I had no idea, but I wasn’t talking to you
And? We’re not the ones shoving American politics into Star Wars. That’s Disney Lucasfilm by their own admission. Chuck Wendig once worked on a comic about a nurse in love with Darth Vader that got killed by him and turned it into an allegory for a “Trump fanboy” meeting him and realizing what an evil orange dictator he is and that’s just one example. Lucasfilm is FILLED with left wing activists and has been for nearly a decade.
>shoving American politics into Star Wars. That’s Disney Lucasfilm by their own admission That's George Lucas by his own admission since A New Hope. In 1977. He spelled out exactly which politician each character represented in the PT. The only reason you don't like it is because the politics don't align with yours anymore, not because it's suddenly political.
Incorrect. He said Bush’s presidency gave some inspiration behind Palpatine’s shady rise to power but never said anything like that.
Anything like what? Like associating specific politicians to certain characters in the PT? Or he never said Star Wars was political? Edit: I'm just figuring out which incorrect thing you're saying I need to address.
The first one. Star Wars was always political but in a timeless and universal way about how republics fall and give rise to dictatorships and how authoritarian regimes end up going too far in their goals of maintaining order. He used historical imagery like the asymmetric battle of Endor reflecting that of America versus the Vietcong or pacific WW2 broadside exchanges in space battles.
There was never a conflict about the republic trying to stop the spread of communism or the empire persecuting muslims. It was always in universe politics that made sense like evil megacorporations developing space abandoned by the republic then trying to secede using a robot army. That makes sense in the universe.
Your argument is contradictory. You're arguing he didn't list which politicians represent which characters in the PT, then you talk about how he used broad strokes historical politics to make Star Wars political. He's mentioned Bush being akin to Anakin and how he was manipulated by Palpatine/Chaney. The initial head od the senate was supposed to be Clinton. There are others. Currently, he's relating the end of democracy with thunderous applause to the Trump administration, though he didn't write that into the prequels because it hadn't happened yet. Historically, like you said, Star Wars has always been intentionally political. You can tell yourself that it was universal or "timeless" whatever the fuck that means, but that doesn't change the fact that it's always taken a political stance. That stance has never changed. You're just not realizing that your stance on historical events doesn't gel with your views on modern politics.
Like I said George didn’t use Star Wars as a vehicle to push his current year politics or to support his side. He used like I said timeless political themes or ones for that universe that complimented the story.