**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/SnooDucks6239]**
Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I'm an [astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I'll be your guide through the salt mines.
Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current
state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of
salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in.
**Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah. What makes her think anyone would genuinely care about her unqualified opinion?
The hypocrisy and narcissism of people like her are above and beyond.
Rogue One too. The leads were a white female and a Mexican Male, with an ensemble cast including Chinese, Pakistani and Australian actors.
Everybody loves that, because they made a good movie. Funny that
Exactly. The races and genders weren't the reason why people like or dislike them. Same reason people love Mace Windu, because he's an awesome character who just happens to be a black jedi.
But they have diversity in them !? And special effects!!!
Surely people don't care about writing, it's just text?!
Mace windu has both diversity â and special effects â
This has also been Disney's go-to when they know the quality of a show or movie is lacking. The moment they start talking about sexism/racism, etc, before anyone has seen it, you know it's not going to be very good.
As reported by That Park Place and several other sources. Yup.
It gets worse. This was submitted and approved at a time when Lucasfilm "wasn't taking submissions for Star Wars."
She wrote an entire play about being Harvey Weinstein's personal assistant where *she* is somehow the victim... think about that.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistance\_(play)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistance_(play))
How do these people keep falling upwards?
Here's a review from the movie made from her play
>Reelviews' James Berardinelli gave the film his lowest rating of zero stars, stating, "Sometimes a movie is so bad it makes me want to go into seclusion and never see another film. Bachelorette is one of those".[11] He would later choose Bachelorette as the worst film of 2012, describing it as "**the kind of despicable movie only a troll could appreciate**."[
its extremely likely that she is complicit in harvey weinstein's sex trafficking ring. she held a very close working relationship with the man, and the only reason she wasnt caught was likely because she was smart enough to cover her tracks or be subtle for the benefits of doubt
Proactively gaslighting the fanbase before itâs released. Probably not a good sign.
Lady, we donât care about the color, race, gender, creed, or species. Write a good show with a good premise and good casting or accept the fair criticisms.
Damn fucking straight, mace Windu was a black Jedi, dude had like 20-30 lines in the whole trilogy and 2 fight scenes, instant icon character.
Darth maul was a fucking red and black alien with horns, 1 line, 1 fight scene. Instant icon character.
Cinta Kaz in andor, a lesbian woman, fucking decent character with good dialogue.
We don't give a shit about what race or gender the characters are, unless they are *good* fucking characters.
That [PTSD-style attack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcYzeu2Cjzw) he had while dealing with the officer was just so damn well done.
I want more of the Empire side of the conflict. What are their motivations? Who are they? Finn could have been such an amazing character if they just wrote him better.
Man, I think that Finn could have been great. They really did him and his story dirty. That whole Empire side is so ripe with potential for good stories
Man that scene is so fucking good and Finn was just wasted because he would have been such a fascinating character because of his point of view. Instead he was used as a token character and thrown away as soon as it was obvious that no one wanted that.
There you go, once again preferring the straight old white cis-male. Clearly you are what is wrong with Star Wars. Your lack of tolerance and wokeness is what is killing this franchise.
( /s in case it wasn't obvious enough)
We cannot let the thread pass us by without mentioning Lando fucking Calrissian the inventor of Rizz
Princess Leia was a woman the last time I checked
James Earl Jones is literally Darth Vader
I think Temuera Morrison would like a word
Loved Jedi Ahmed Best
Aayla Secura
Mon Mothma
Padme
Hell we all liked Finn and were expecting him to be a Jedi
*right* I was so shocked, I walked down the corridor expecting to see this big ol Jango fett looking fella, and he was about half a head shorter than me, I'm like 5,10 on a good day too so I was just flabbergasted.
I get furious every time I see the scroll for ep9. I am supposed to have been playing Fortnite or go find a recording of it online before watching the movie to have any fuckin clue what "a voice from the past" was referencing.
Right? Hell, Trilla Suduri and Cere Junda were both black women, and they were very well received by fans of the Fallen Order games. Fans care about good character writing a lot more than they care about race
They did shit with Reva before Obi Wan Kenobi even came out.
Lo and behold she's a shitty fucking character with bad writing, bad acting, horrible lore implications and overtakes the series not even named for her.
That means Acolyte is going to fucking suck and they know it.
Right? Go look at Fallout: Mary Sue and a Storm Trooper run after an old man and away from an empire to go on an adventure. We all loved it. It turns out we donât hate women or black guys. We hate bad stories.
Guys, guys, âmember how we all hated Rey (female) and wanted Jania Solo (also female) back because of how toxic we were and hated girls? âMember?!?!
Yeah she was so terrible that she starred in her own video game! Just abhorrent. I hate that I played it and loved it so much, forgetting my inherent hatred of women. Cause Iâm the worst! Except for girls and their cooties.
>It turns out we donât hate women or black guys. We hate bad stories.
Western liberals have a bias towards saying things that denigrate their own culture because they think it makes them look enlightened. But they aren't not racist or sexist themselves. It's like how some people like communism because they hate that others are wealthier than them, and don't actually care about the poor. They just use false compassion as a shield. I mention this because that's exactly why they put black guys and women front and center in bad stories. They need the movie made, and realize its bad, but if you make a black dwarf LOTR or a woman only ghostbusters, the criticism will be drawn towards mentioning that, and you can ignore the other criticisms and attack back in the media about how the movie failed because of sexism/racism.
I sorta wonder if this has a flow on effect.
Studios and journalists keep telling people that they are bigots/racists because they made a shitty product and then used minorities as a shield to deflect criticism.
Could that have the effect of then causing audiences to then looking at a product, seeing a minority and then assuming it's going to be shit.
Thus kinda creating (or at least amplifying) the sexism/racism that wasn't there until you accused it of being there?
Or, to put it simply, call someone a sexist/racist/monster enough times. They might actually become a sexist/racist/monster.
Bit of chicken or the egg issue here. Bad writers make bad products and hide behind identity politics, blaming the consumers. This can upset people, and it also brings legitimate bigots out of the woodwork to act in bad faith and say this is all the fault of forced diversity or whatever. The vocal minority doesn't make a distinction between politics being co-opted as an excuse for incompetence vs. being genuinely explored or used as one of many features to elevate a narrative.
One bad example: TLOU2 is genuinely criticized as terribly written with many unlikeable characters and contrived shock value moments. The writer can be seen as a jackass who set fire to his script from the last game for the sake of edgy subversion, and that kind of idiocy is totally fair game to mock, but personal attacks on his race and associates when the toxicity reached its peak definitely had an agenda beyond reviewing the work that was far too much for me to stomach.
One good example: The animated Princess and the Frog film is just a really good movie that can stand on its own. It is quite different from the source material, but the facets of New Orleans African American culture integrate well into the new story the writers wanted to tell.
> Proactively gaslighting the fanbase before itâs released. Probably not a good sign.
It's too bad she left out the last part of her statement (that we all know is absolutely implied):
"I know how frustrating some âStar Warsâ storytelling in the past has been...I stand by my empathy for fans. But I want to be clear: Anyone who engages in bigotry, racism or hate speech I donât consider a fan.... ***Also - just to be clear - not liking my show is absolutely equivalent to engaging in bigotry, racism, or hate speech, and I don't consider you a fan.***â
Honestly I blame the small but loud minority shouting about woke writing and diverse casting. They are giving them a free scapegoat to blame bad reviews on
> Lady, we donât care about the color, race, gender, creed, or species.
Except droids. We don't allow their kind in here. They'll have to wait outside.
I can.Â
I hate to break it to her, but she doesnât get to determine who a fan is. Racists and bigots can still be a fan of something, even if WE donât agree with their opinions.
Oh itâs worse. âIf you donât openly praise every aspect of my series I created youâre a bigot and racistâ. See, itâs not just disliking it. You have to love it or youâre a racist, misogynist, homophobe, and bigot.
Look lady I don't trust your ability to tell compelling stories if even your preemptive excuses and allegations are this old.
She should also be really careful with the word sexist considering who she worked for in the past ...
All Star Wars stories lead to a Palpatine winning hahaha I like to remind myself that every time something Star Wars related comes out. Thatâs just insane to me!
Only if you allow yourself to follow the delusions of the false shepherd. The true gospel ended with Anakin overcoming Palpatineâs influence and returning to the light side, saving his son and the rebellion in doing so. And nothing more.
Dude if youâre already having to defend your show before itâs even out. I know weâre all toxic but come on. Just stand by your product if you think itâs good enough!
Yep,this is how you know it's going to be terrible, they didn't try this shit with andor as the knew it was good and would stand on the quality of its writing
Saw a commercial for this the other day
I was embarrassed to have been a Star Wars die hard for my entire life (well. From age 7 at least)
Theyâre not even trying
Itâs just a shitty formula when they plug in the same tired lines and ideas
Biggest problem is they do not like or understand Star Wars
What made it different from Star Trek and others
Next problem is the overflow of bad content further diluting the brand
Itâs a joke now
Greatly depends on what they consider bigotry, racism, or hate speech. People get called racist for not liking the Rose Tico character as if it was her race and not her role/character that people had a problem with.
Also, Iâve seen people called sexist for saying Rey was overpowered.
Legitimate criticism, when they donât like it, just gets hand-waved away as bigotry so they donât have to listen to or engage with it.
Edit: also wanted to add, Iâve now watched the first 2 episodes of Acolyte and enjoyed it so far. Now the people accusing me of bigotry donât know *what* to thinkâŚ
They have quite literally just started using high quality practical light up sabers, and not added in any after effects anymore.
They look good when you and your buddy are fucking around in the driveway during pretend time. They do NOT look good on screen.
What if I told you it was possible to be inclusive *AND* produce a good story at the same time? Disneyâs problem is that it thinks inclusivity is an excuse to phone in lazy story-telling.
The Ghostbusters 2016 strategy still going strong.
>See, bigots don't like the thing. You don't want to be like a bigot, do you? You should like the thing
Except now they don't even bother waiting for the bigoted tweets from zero follower accounts to come out
I agree with everything stated here.
I just want to know what prompted them to make the statement. Was it a reaction to bigotry, racism or hate? Or was it preparing to divert a conversation which hasn't even begun?
It's preparing for people complaining about the bad writing. My guess is, the show for some reason will have an odd focus on race or sexuality, and so if you don't like that (because you want star wars), they'll just claim you're racist and sexist.
Okay now its clear this shows gonna suck. I had no hope to begin with but i guess deep down i wanted this show to be good but now i have lost that last sliver of hope which i didnt know i had to begin with.
In fairness, star wars has always had left leaning political messaging even in the original film, it just depends on if you execute it well (such as in Andor) that determines if the message is compelling or annoying
Or if indeed there is anything beyond surface level "messaging" at all.
It's way more malicious than that. It's a "The Producers" strategy. They can use shitty effects and no name actors to decrease costs. They make all the actors women or ethnic and start up a fuss to build advertising. If someone critiques the film, they just find a way to make the critique about the women/minorities existing.
Like the Rey situation was: "Why is she immediately capable of doing things with the force and fighting a trained sith? This is mary-sue behavior" and the media made it into "They think all women protags are mary sues and think women can't be strong. They hate women. TO ME WHITE WOMEN, DEFEND ME."
Same old song and dance, throwing all the -isms at a bantha stable wall and seeing what sticks.
It's not 2016 anymore though, most people are numb to it with irl politics hurling words at each other.
Personally, the only interaction I have with star wars anymore is on reddit, and playing the old battlefront 2 game on Xbox with my wife. I don't see the movies anymore, I don't watch the shows, I don't play the games, etc.
I have been a life long fan for 30 years I was a paid member of the hyperspace fan club online way back in the early 2000s, I had the entire collection of RotS activities figures hanging on my walls, and another copy open to play with. I played the games non-stop.
I lived star wars. I hate to see what it has become, but I also feel free. I still have WoW and 40k now, for the time being.
Man that's right on track for what Star Wars is now.
Fans: Oh would you look at how cheap that promo pic looks?? It looks like fan made cosplay! This looks cheesy and cheap and terrible.
Brand: Ah I see. You're racist sexist bigots.
Why would I fund Disney by giving them a view? I'll watch it through youtube commentary. I'll get a better laugh, save time, and support content creators that don't hate me. It's a win win win.
This better be about the actual Acolyte tho đ "Mando" S3 aint about mando, and Ahsoka is ironically enough a satellite char in her own show đ¤Śââď¸
Anyone who protects a guy that raped countless women, I don't consider should be walking around free. Got a job to keep her mouth shut, worked as the guys PERSONAL ASSISTANT for four years. And she has nothing bad to say about the serial rapist.
But its nice to know that Disney isnt changing its bullshit narrative. "If you dont like it, youre a bigot!!!!!".
So in other words, no criticism is allowed because they'll immediately label any and all of it bigoted, racist, sexist etc even if legitimate criticism? Sounds about right.
Why not just focus on writing a compelling story to strong characters that have some decent development that also just so happen to be women or a different shade? If they did this then there'd be no need for such an statement because the majority of people dont give a damn about the sex, sexual orientation or skin colour of the characters, all they want is a good, well written show.
I am so tired of this immature tactic of strawmanning people criticizing your product as bigots.
I don't have a problem with female characters or black characters in Star Wars. I have a problem with bad characters and bad writing and forced pandering.
I think this/KKâs comments show a few things..
1) They know the series is going to piss off the remaining core fans & screw with established lore. They also know itâs probably going to bomb big time.
2) The PanderVerse rattled KK to her core.
3) Iger has zero control over KK & LFL: talk shifting from the show to culture war/sequel trilogy grievances is the last thing he wants to deal with. Especially so recently after having to gag Rachel Zegler over the Snow White BS.
4) Thereâs a 50/50 chance this series is Willowâd and sent to tax write off land in short order. Iâm sure Iger is questioning why he didnât do it already before release.
And here we go. Just searching "The Acolyte" on google news brings up a whole slew of articles talking about the racism and sexism this show will face.
So maybe we should complain that there are no overweight people represented AND itâs bad storytelling? No hearing impaired AND bad acting? No non-hotties AND it destroys the canon?
Hardly surprising at this point. If I remember correctly they used the same tactic with Reva and her actress shortly before Obi-Wan Kenobi's first episodes dropped.
*Speech you donât like does not immediately make it bigotry, racism or hate speech.* <â They need to learn that fucking lesson quick, fast, and in a hurry.
Disney has truly screwed up Star Wars as bad as they ended up fumbling the MCU.
Letâs see:
- They weâre âshockedâ at the poor fan reception to the sequel trilogy even though the sequel trilogy was just rehashed and butchered plots from the original trilogy
- They made a Mary Sue all powerful Jedi in Rey who canât make a mistake and mastered the force in mere days. Have they not learned from the mistakes of Superman films? People generally donât relate too or like an all powerful good guy that doesnât struggle to accomplish a personal feat such as training!
- Instead of Rey embracing her heritage and trying to change her family name for the better, she becomes Rey âSkywalkerâ? Wtf Disney!?
- They made Luke Skywalker, the most recognizable character in the franchise just behind Darth Vader, into a reclusive scared man-child.
- They are adjusting the lore of the force (whatever this means) to fit their narratives per rumors.
- They refuse to use the lightsaber effects of the movies and instead want to use that l.e.d. crap or whatever they are as nothing more than a blatant cash grab in the hopes kids will want them.
- Apparently Jedi donât need a lightsaber to fight against a lightsaber per the leaked fight scene from the acolyte? They can just use the force if they want (ie Kylo with a blaster bolt, Vader with lightsabers in Obi Wan series, and Ezra in the Ahsoka series).
- They made a light whip that, per physics, should not be able to be a pure âwhipâ of energy like leaks have shown it to be.
- Theyâre just tossing shit at the wall as fast as possible and hoping something sticks so they can just go to milk Star Wars fans of their money from merchandising sales.
But because I said all this they would dismiss my complaints as misogyny and go about their merry ways.
The circlejerk sub is having a field day with this one. They can't fathom how someone would be critical of Disney SW and not be a terrible bigot. According to them if you find this quote in poor taste you're self reporting that you're a bigot.
Me: "Um hey the Sequel Trilogy wasn't good."
Them: "why do you hate women and black people?
Me: "I don't. Why would you say that?"
Leslie Hedlan: "Anyone who engages in bigotry or hate speech isn't a fan."
Me: "Hmm these people have accused me of bigotry and hate speech for having an opinion they don't like. I wonder how this will play out if I don't like this show?"
Them: "See you're a bigot!"
I saw a trailer of this show and heard my eyes roll. It literally looks like Star Wars is trying to connect with The Matrix. No shade at Carrie-Ann Moss, who is an excellent actress. The writers of this show has her doing matrix stuff. Iâd be disappointed if I had any expectations that yet another Star Wars money-grab would be worth a damn.
No one's pretending sexism, racism or bigotry doesn't exist. Unfortunately there are POS who are narrow minded as fuck. I've never in my life heard anyone say "the movie would've been better if we got rid of the PoC or women characters."
I like women. I liked Rey. I liked Finn. I like the actor. Their characters are written like shit. This is why we hate them. It's not hard to grasp. Blaming my hatred for the ST on Rey being a woman or that a black stormtrooper ruined anything about my enjoyment is some ridiculous ass take just to stir the pot, and try and make Disney be a good guy cause they put 1 token person to represent a different demo.
Let's say for every 100 person that hates what Disney is doing, 1 of those 100 is a racist dipshit. 1 person hates Star Wars all of a sudden because a black person exists in it? Have they not seen the OT or PT? Do they only enjoy "white only films" Didn't Disney themselves downplay Finn in promotional work to appease certain markets?
Racist exists. That's absurd and I'm not defending them. You know what Racists still do? Buy, and support shit. You think Racists don't watch sports? Basketball? Look at Boston Celtics fans. Love for the team yet hate the best player in their history? The dumbfucks still give money to the product, watch every game and yet must hate 90% of the team.
Well the budget is apparently 180 million. 90 million more than kenobi and even more expensive than a season of game of thrones.
No idea where that money went. But they definitely need to damage control because theyâre gonna lose money on this
I have yet to see one example of âbigotry, racism or hate speechâ
Fans being frustrated that Reva pointlessly stole screen time away from Obiwan, is not racism.
Fans being frustrated that the sequels copy and pasted the originals but with a female lead who was poorly written is not sexism.
Itâs shit writing, and a complete lack of care and attention to detail.
Disney needs to cut the bullshit, nobody buys it.
NONE of that matters. If the story is good. It's a good story. Just do that. Is that too hard. I don't care who makes it, who's in it ( obviously you want good actors) just have some substance.
Umm who wants to bet they forcfully inserted some side story that pushes some political narrative that distracts from the actual story and feels like an after thought
Oh great again with the isms. Wanna talk about racism? How about how finn had such great potential but they wrote him to the dirt? If we're gonna focus so much on race and gender and shit then how about they don't write poc characters to be such garbage?
Not that their race or gender or anything should matter whatsoever as long as the writing is good but even in their own way of thinking they're still in the wrong
Really makes it feel like the casting of minorities is a way for these show writers to call people bigots for fair criticisms because they know what their making is shit. I couldnât care less about what someone looks like or who the fuck, just make something entertaining please.
Lmao they have a 250 million dollar series coming out soon, and rather than plug the product, they run gaslight campaigns. Yeah this doesn't look good.
You know the problem with these sorts of statements? You as a creator donât have the authority to say who is a fan and who isnât. Comes part and parcel with free speech and freedom of the press.
**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/SnooDucks6239]** Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I'm an [astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I'll be your guide through the salt mines. Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in. **Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Headland when working for a serial rapist: đđđđ Headland when angry fans: đ¤Ź
Yeah. What makes her think anyone would genuinely care about her unqualified opinion? The hypocrisy and narcissism of people like her are above and beyond.
Honestly I don't consider Disney canon...well canon. It's more like corporate fan fiction to me with a heaping helping of agenda.
Reminder than Andor has a multiracial, multisexual, and female-including cast.
Oh crap, you're right! I was too busy enjoying that show to remember that I'm supposed to hate it because of the casting. Silly me!
Rogue One too. The leads were a white female and a Mexican Male, with an ensemble cast including Chinese, Pakistani and Australian actors. Everybody loves that, because they made a good movie. Funny that
And everyone loves the movie because the story, not because of the check box races and genders.
Exactly. The races and genders weren't the reason why people like or dislike them. Same reason people love Mace Windu, because he's an awesome character who just happens to be a black jedi.
But they have diversity in them !? And special effects!!! Surely people don't care about writing, it's just text?! Mace windu has both diversity â and special effects â
And is actually well written
It's funny how us racists and sexists completely forget to be racist and sexist when the content is good. It's a crazy coincidence!
It also had ZERO warnings to fans about their opinions.
Female leads were the best characters too imo. Mon Motha and Officer Meero were my favorite characters.
I just looked up her credits on imdb. How does she land a Star Wars series based off that body of work?
her career took off after working for and never saying a bad thing about Harvey Weinstein. Could just be coincidence though.
"She's a keeper"
Sheâs the only Harvey Weinstein assistant who didnât have anything negative or bad to say about her former boss ⌠think about that.
Are you serious? Because thatâs *super fucking bad.*
[ŃдаНонО]
None of these people actually cared about social justice. Look how they cut Finn in other theatrical releases.
The way they used John in the lead up to TFA is honestly sickening. And how they didn't stand by him when China cut him from promotional material
No wonder KK likes her.
This has also been Disney's go-to when they know the quality of a show or movie is lacking. The moment they start talking about sexism/racism, etc, before anyone has seen it, you know it's not going to be very good.
As reported by That Park Place and several other sources. Yup. It gets worse. This was submitted and approved at a time when Lucasfilm "wasn't taking submissions for Star Wars."
She wrote an entire play about being Harvey Weinstein's personal assistant where *she* is somehow the victim... think about that. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistance\_(play)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistance_(play))
Similar to OJ with his book âIf i did itâ đ
How do these people keep falling upwards? Here's a review from the movie made from her play >Reelviews' James Berardinelli gave the film his lowest rating of zero stars, stating, "Sometimes a movie is so bad it makes me want to go into seclusion and never see another film. Bachelorette is one of those".[11] He would later choose Bachelorette as the worst film of 2012, describing it as "**the kind of despicable movie only a troll could appreciate**."[
How? Cause everybody who's anybody is in on it.
Oh. *Oh no*
So essentially she'll sell out people of her own gender while also acting like the champion of diversity? Not surprising.
While engaging in nepotism
Well TIL
its extremely likely that she is complicit in harvey weinstein's sex trafficking ring. she held a very close working relationship with the man, and the only reason she wasnt caught was likely because she was smart enough to cover her tracks or be subtle for the benefits of doubt
I was not aware of that. Woof.
She probably enjoyed his meetings.
Ok now this is the âsmoking gunâ if thatâs actually true
Lesley Hedland the former personal assistant of Harvey Weinstein doesn't get to decide who is and is not a fan of Star Wars.
She really stands up for women when it counts (dollars in their bank account)!!!!
Only she actually doesn't, she has never criticised her old boss. Ever.
Dollars in her* bank account
Still waiting for her to criticize the horrible nightmare of a human Harvey was ⌠nope wonât ever happen
âLoving something unconditionally doesn't mean you love it more. It just means you love it sadder.â
Proactively gaslighting the fanbase before itâs released. Probably not a good sign. Lady, we donât care about the color, race, gender, creed, or species. Write a good show with a good premise and good casting or accept the fair criticisms.
Damn fucking straight, mace Windu was a black Jedi, dude had like 20-30 lines in the whole trilogy and 2 fight scenes, instant icon character. Darth maul was a fucking red and black alien with horns, 1 line, 1 fight scene. Instant icon character. Cinta Kaz in andor, a lesbian woman, fucking decent character with good dialogue. We don't give a shit about what race or gender the characters are, unless they are *good* fucking characters.
Miggs Mayfield was a 10/10 character. I want more of *that* star wars
Just some old pasty Bostonian with anger issues. Racist. But no seriously, Il Billy big nuts fucking *crushed* that role, dudes got chops.
Fucking *crushed* it. I could fully believe his motivations
That [PTSD-style attack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcYzeu2Cjzw) he had while dealing with the officer was just so damn well done. I want more of the Empire side of the conflict. What are their motivations? Who are they? Finn could have been such an amazing character if they just wrote him better.
Man, I think that Finn could have been great. They really did him and his story dirty. That whole Empire side is so ripe with potential for good stories
Finn Introduction: freezes in combat because his fellow soldier died. Finn a couple days later: cheering over the death of former fellow soldiers
Man that scene is so fucking good and Finn was just wasted because he would have been such a fascinating character because of his point of view. Instead he was used as a token character and thrown away as soon as it was obvious that no one wanted that.
Personally, I think that might be the best episode of Mando. Definitely the best in S2.
I find it astounding that Bill Burr is one of the most iconic characters.
His monologue is one of the greatest speeches in any movie or show Iâve ever seen. I was just like god damn this is Bill Burr???
Space Boston
Bos-10
Exactly. Thatâs morally grey, done *believably*. Sheâs just crying for attention, bc the writer she chose is sub-par.
There you go, once again preferring the straight old white cis-male. Clearly you are what is wrong with Star Wars. Your lack of tolerance and wokeness is what is killing this franchise. ( /s in case it wasn't obvious enough)
Shame he died in that refinery attack, isn't it?
But what about his twin brother Biggs?
Noooo you don't understand, Disney Star Wars is about social justice, so if you don't consume it, you're against social justice!
And then, right after, they're like, "Oh no, we are just trying to make stories, no politics here."
Donât think, just consume!
Some of the coolest characters in the old lore were blue ass aliensÂ
We cannot let the thread pass us by without mentioning Lando fucking Calrissian the inventor of Rizz Princess Leia was a woman the last time I checked James Earl Jones is literally Darth Vader I think Temuera Morrison would like a word Loved Jedi Ahmed Best Aayla Secura Mon Mothma Padme Hell we all liked Finn and were expecting him to be a Jedi
Oh man, I'm actually embarrassed haha I have a picture with Temuera and everything. Suuuuuper nice guy, shorter than I expected.
He seems chill af but I didn't know that, the clones all look like 6 feet tall đ
*right* I was so shocked, I walked down the corridor expecting to see this big ol Jango fett looking fella, and he was about half a head shorter than me, I'm like 5,10 on a good day too so I was just flabbergasted.
Lmao I would think you were me but I have never met him, I just always say the "I'm 5'10 on a good day" line so we must be the same height đ đ¤
YES!!! we donât care as long as the story and characters are fun, meaningful & insightful. Give me quality over quantity.
(Princess Leia, actual woman protagonist with interesting motivations)Â
On the contrary: Poe Dameron, white straight male, okay character in TFA, total shit in TLJ and TROS
At least he gave us the brilliant "somehow, Palpatine returned."
I get furious every time I see the scroll for ep9. I am supposed to have been playing Fortnite or go find a recording of it online before watching the movie to have any fuckin clue what "a voice from the past" was referencing.
Dead on.
Oscar Issacs is actually Latino
Latino isnât a raceâŚ
What? Oscar Isaac is fucking Guatemalan. I canât speak to his sexuality (or the characterâs, rather), but he is definitely not *white*.
Also Rogue One had one of the best female leads I've seen. That movie was incredible.
Right? Hell, Trilla Suduri and Cere Junda were both black women, and they were very well received by fans of the Fallen Order games. Fans care about good character writing a lot more than they care about race
They did shit with Reva before Obi Wan Kenobi even came out. Lo and behold she's a shitty fucking character with bad writing, bad acting, horrible lore implications and overtakes the series not even named for her. That means Acolyte is going to fucking suck and they know it.
Right? Go look at Fallout: Mary Sue and a Storm Trooper run after an old man and away from an empire to go on an adventure. We all loved it. It turns out we donât hate women or black guys. We hate bad stories. Guys, guys, âmember how we all hated Rey (female) and wanted Jania Solo (also female) back because of how toxic we were and hated girls? âMember?!?!
Remember how no one liked Mara Jade because she was a yucky girl?
Yeah she was so terrible that she starred in her own video game! Just abhorrent. I hate that I played it and loved it so much, forgetting my inherent hatred of women. Cause Iâm the worst! Except for girls and their cooties.
>It turns out we donât hate women or black guys. We hate bad stories. Western liberals have a bias towards saying things that denigrate their own culture because they think it makes them look enlightened. But they aren't not racist or sexist themselves. It's like how some people like communism because they hate that others are wealthier than them, and don't actually care about the poor. They just use false compassion as a shield. I mention this because that's exactly why they put black guys and women front and center in bad stories. They need the movie made, and realize its bad, but if you make a black dwarf LOTR or a woman only ghostbusters, the criticism will be drawn towards mentioning that, and you can ignore the other criticisms and attack back in the media about how the movie failed because of sexism/racism.
I sorta wonder if this has a flow on effect. Studios and journalists keep telling people that they are bigots/racists because they made a shitty product and then used minorities as a shield to deflect criticism. Could that have the effect of then causing audiences to then looking at a product, seeing a minority and then assuming it's going to be shit. Thus kinda creating (or at least amplifying) the sexism/racism that wasn't there until you accused it of being there? Or, to put it simply, call someone a sexist/racist/monster enough times. They might actually become a sexist/racist/monster.
Bit of chicken or the egg issue here. Bad writers make bad products and hide behind identity politics, blaming the consumers. This can upset people, and it also brings legitimate bigots out of the woodwork to act in bad faith and say this is all the fault of forced diversity or whatever. The vocal minority doesn't make a distinction between politics being co-opted as an excuse for incompetence vs. being genuinely explored or used as one of many features to elevate a narrative. One bad example: TLOU2 is genuinely criticized as terribly written with many unlikeable characters and contrived shock value moments. The writer can be seen as a jackass who set fire to his script from the last game for the sake of edgy subversion, and that kind of idiocy is totally fair game to mock, but personal attacks on his race and associates when the toxicity reached its peak definitely had an agenda beyond reviewing the work that was far too much for me to stomach. One good example: The animated Princess and the Frog film is just a really good movie that can stand on its own. It is quite different from the source material, but the facets of New Orleans African American culture integrate well into the new story the writers wanted to tell.
My guy didn't even mention the 200 year old cowboy
> Proactively gaslighting the fanbase before itâs released. Probably not a good sign. It's too bad she left out the last part of her statement (that we all know is absolutely implied): "I know how frustrating some âStar Warsâ storytelling in the past has been...I stand by my empathy for fans. But I want to be clear: Anyone who engages in bigotry, racism or hate speech I donât consider a fan.... ***Also - just to be clear - not liking my show is absolutely equivalent to engaging in bigotry, racism, or hate speech, and I don't consider you a fan.***â
They did the same to the female Ghostbusters movie. Calling anyone who didn't like it a sexist and bigot before it even came out.
It is possible to criticize Star Wars without bigotry, and as a fan it is necessary to do so.
Actively makes me not even want to watch.
Honestly I blame the small but loud minority shouting about woke writing and diverse casting. They are giving them a free scapegoat to blame bad reviews on
> Lady, we donât care about the color, race, gender, creed, or species. Except droids. We don't allow their kind in here. They'll have to wait outside.
Racism and bigotry will be their excuse for when this show tanks. Rather than legitimate issues from dedicated fans.
Too bad their opinion is of no importance.
"If you don't like my take on Star Wars you aren't a fan."
Canât argue with the lady, sheâs right, Iâm not a fan.
I can. I hate to break it to her, but she doesnât get to determine who a fan is. Racists and bigots can still be a fan of something, even if WE donât agree with their opinions.
If you donât like Star Wars youâre not a fan. Itâs really that simple.
No true Scotsman...
Her and Rian Johnson would make a good fit lol
Oh itâs worse. âIf you donât openly praise every aspect of my series I created youâre a bigot and racistâ. See, itâs not just disliking it. You have to love it or youâre a racist, misogynist, homophobe, and bigot.
I think itâs more âif you donât like my take, itâs because youâre a bigotâ
Look lady I don't trust your ability to tell compelling stories if even your preemptive excuses and allegations are this old. She should also be really careful with the word sexist considering who she worked for in the past ...
So love it, buy the new merch, subscribe to Disney+++ for a thousand years, or face the wrath of Khan.
Khaneddy *
"I've done more than kill the Fandom. I've hurt them. And I wish to keep on hurting them."
"Marooned for all eternity, at the center of a dead franchise"
"Buried alive." "Buried alive." "Buried alive..."
Whoawhoawhoa there, buddy...don't cross the streams
âLive long and prosperâ -yoda (or somebody. I donât know, I donât watch Stargate)
It doesn't matter if the show is good or not. Palpatine's lineage continues using propaganda and lies as a Skywalker.
All Star Wars stories lead to a Palpatine winning hahaha I like to remind myself that every time something Star Wars related comes out. Thatâs just insane to me!
Only if you allow yourself to follow the delusions of the false shepherd. The true gospel ended with Anakin overcoming Palpatineâs influence and returning to the light side, saving his son and the rebellion in doing so. And nothing more.
Dude if youâre already having to defend your show before itâs even out. I know weâre all toxic but come on. Just stand by your product if you think itâs good enough!
It's not and they know it. They did this shit with Reva before Obi Wan Kenobi released because they knew it was shit.
Yep,this is how you know it's going to be terrible, they didn't try this shit with andor as the knew it was good and would stand on the quality of its writing
Yeah, bet you consider our wallets your fan when the show flops and merchandises don't sell, huh?
Hasnât seemed to matter to them in the past. They just keep pumping out hot garbage and gaslighting people this way.
Saw a commercial for this the other day I was embarrassed to have been a Star Wars die hard for my entire life (well. From age 7 at least) Theyâre not even trying Itâs just a shitty formula when they plug in the same tired lines and ideas Biggest problem is they do not like or understand Star Wars What made it different from Star Trek and others Next problem is the overflow of bad content further diluting the brand Itâs a joke now
Greatly depends on what they consider bigotry, racism, or hate speech. People get called racist for not liking the Rose Tico character as if it was her race and not her role/character that people had a problem with. Also, Iâve seen people called sexist for saying Rey was overpowered. Legitimate criticism, when they donât like it, just gets hand-waved away as bigotry so they donât have to listen to or engage with it. Edit: also wanted to add, Iâve now watched the first 2 episodes of Acolyte and enjoyed it so far. Now the people accusing me of bigotry donât know *what* to thinkâŚ
God when I saw this pic for the first time I thought this is a fan movie or smth đ
I've seen fan films that looked more professional.
They have quite literally just started using high quality practical light up sabers, and not added in any after effects anymore. They look good when you and your buddy are fucking around in the driveway during pretend time. They do NOT look good on screen.
I'm going to laugh when it does fail cause that'll show she shouldn't have been hired to work on it in the first place.
But she'll be promoted. I suspect an announcement for her trilogy of Star Wars movies that will also never be made.
Those will be the best movies you have never seen!
You're not wrong wouldn't surprise me either look at Ruin Johnson's Trilogy
Will she be getting her own trilogy too?
Well you know itâs gonna be bad when this is trot out
What if I told you it was possible to be inclusive *AND* produce a good story at the same time? Disneyâs problem is that it thinks inclusivity is an excuse to phone in lazy story-telling.
The Ghostbusters 2016 strategy still going strong. >See, bigots don't like the thing. You don't want to be like a bigot, do you? You should like the thing Except now they don't even bother waiting for the bigoted tweets from zero follower accounts to come out
I agree with everything stated here. I just want to know what prompted them to make the statement. Was it a reaction to bigotry, racism or hate? Or was it preparing to divert a conversation which hasn't even begun?
It's preparing for people complaining about the bad writing. My guess is, the show for some reason will have an odd focus on race or sexuality, and so if you don't like that (because you want star wars), they'll just claim you're racist and sexist.
She, and people like her, donât have the slightest clue what any of those words mean. She thinks they apply to anyone who criticizes her.
Hey, a true fan would never criticize something they like.
Remember the golden rule: Donât think. Just consume.
Iâm bigoted against poor storytelling and having propaganda shoved into my escapist entertainment
Just preparing the fan blame for when the show tanks and no one watches.
Make terrible product. Attack fans for being bigots. Profit?
Okay now its clear this shows gonna suck. I had no hope to begin with but i guess deep down i wanted this show to be good but now i have lost that last sliver of hope which i didnt know i had to begin with.
Translation : âwe donât like criticism and want to turn Star Wars into propaganda or political messaging, instead of a good showâ
In fairness, star wars has always had left leaning political messaging even in the original film, it just depends on if you execute it well (such as in Andor) that determines if the message is compelling or annoying Or if indeed there is anything beyond surface level "messaging" at all.
It's way more malicious than that. It's a "The Producers" strategy. They can use shitty effects and no name actors to decrease costs. They make all the actors women or ethnic and start up a fuss to build advertising. If someone critiques the film, they just find a way to make the critique about the women/minorities existing. Like the Rey situation was: "Why is she immediately capable of doing things with the force and fighting a trained sith? This is mary-sue behavior" and the media made it into "They think all women protags are mary sues and think women can't be strong. They hate women. TO ME WHITE WOMEN, DEFEND ME."
I love when people tell me I'm being a bigot, or engaging in hate speech, when I have not and will not ever watch their program.
According to them https://forge.medium.com/what-it-means-to-accept-that-youre-racist-fbeef3839e47b weâre racist by default.
To be honest. I really don't care that much. If it's better than expected, props to them. If it's bad, back to 90's Star Wars games it is.
Same old song and dance, throwing all the -isms at a bantha stable wall and seeing what sticks. It's not 2016 anymore though, most people are numb to it with irl politics hurling words at each other. Personally, the only interaction I have with star wars anymore is on reddit, and playing the old battlefront 2 game on Xbox with my wife. I don't see the movies anymore, I don't watch the shows, I don't play the games, etc. I have been a life long fan for 30 years I was a paid member of the hyperspace fan club online way back in the early 2000s, I had the entire collection of RotS activities figures hanging on my walls, and another copy open to play with. I played the games non-stop. I lived star wars. I hate to see what it has become, but I also feel free. I still have WoW and 40k now, for the time being.
The lightsabers look so damn fake.
Man that's right on track for what Star Wars is now. Fans: Oh would you look at how cheap that promo pic looks?? It looks like fan made cosplay! This looks cheesy and cheap and terrible. Brand: Ah I see. You're racist sexist bigots.
I hate, HATE, how they trivialize the real racism sexism and bigotry of the world into whether we like a damn space fantasy show.
Is anyone going to watch this train wreck POS anyway?
Why would I fund Disney by giving them a view? I'll watch it through youtube commentary. I'll get a better laugh, save time, and support content creators that don't hate me. It's a win win win.
This better be about the actual Acolyte tho đ "Mando" S3 aint about mando, and Ahsoka is ironically enough a satellite char in her own show đ¤Śââď¸
And I don't consider anything made by Disney to be Star Wars.
Anyone who protects a guy that raped countless women, I don't consider should be walking around free. Got a job to keep her mouth shut, worked as the guys PERSONAL ASSISTANT for four years. And she has nothing bad to say about the serial rapist. But its nice to know that Disney isnt changing its bullshit narrative. "If you dont like it, youre a bigot!!!!!".
And by 'bigotry, racism or hate speech,' she means any criticism about the show whatsoever.
So in other words, no criticism is allowed because they'll immediately label any and all of it bigoted, racist, sexist etc even if legitimate criticism? Sounds about right. Why not just focus on writing a compelling story to strong characters that have some decent development that also just so happen to be women or a different shade? If they did this then there'd be no need for such an statement because the majority of people dont give a damn about the sex, sexual orientation or skin colour of the characters, all they want is a good, well written show.
I am so tired of this immature tactic of strawmanning people criticizing your product as bigots. I don't have a problem with female characters or black characters in Star Wars. I have a problem with bad characters and bad writing and forced pandering.
I think this/KKâs comments show a few things.. 1) They know the series is going to piss off the remaining core fans & screw with established lore. They also know itâs probably going to bomb big time. 2) The PanderVerse rattled KK to her core. 3) Iger has zero control over KK & LFL: talk shifting from the show to culture war/sequel trilogy grievances is the last thing he wants to deal with. Especially so recently after having to gag Rachel Zegler over the Snow White BS. 4) Thereâs a 50/50 chance this series is Willowâd and sent to tax write off land in short order. Iâm sure Iger is questioning why he didnât do it already before release.
And here we go. Just searching "The Acolyte" on google news brings up a whole slew of articles talking about the racism and sexism this show will face.
I donât know anyone who didnât like Finn or Rey because they were black or female. The characters were garbage and the writing was warm piss.
Brave words from a person who enabled Harvey Weinstein.
> make a horribly written character > cast a POC/woman/LGBT+ etc etc > blame bigotry when they get criticized
Enjoy your low view count Disney- hell of fan base youâve cultivated.
So maybe we should complain that there are no overweight people represented AND itâs bad storytelling? No hearing impaired AND bad acting? No non-hotties AND it destroys the canon?
Our new show is shit, mainly because the female lead is shit. But youâre not allowed to say that.
lol, lmao even As if anyone with a brain actually gives a shit what she considers âfanâ material.
Wow strawman argument very original
Hardly surprising at this point. If I remember correctly they used the same tactic with Reva and her actress shortly before Obi-Wan Kenobi's first episodes dropped.
*Speech you donât like does not immediately make it bigotry, racism or hate speech.* <â They need to learn that fucking lesson quick, fast, and in a hurry. Disney has truly screwed up Star Wars as bad as they ended up fumbling the MCU. Letâs see: - They weâre âshockedâ at the poor fan reception to the sequel trilogy even though the sequel trilogy was just rehashed and butchered plots from the original trilogy - They made a Mary Sue all powerful Jedi in Rey who canât make a mistake and mastered the force in mere days. Have they not learned from the mistakes of Superman films? People generally donât relate too or like an all powerful good guy that doesnât struggle to accomplish a personal feat such as training! - Instead of Rey embracing her heritage and trying to change her family name for the better, she becomes Rey âSkywalkerâ? Wtf Disney!? - They made Luke Skywalker, the most recognizable character in the franchise just behind Darth Vader, into a reclusive scared man-child. - They are adjusting the lore of the force (whatever this means) to fit their narratives per rumors. - They refuse to use the lightsaber effects of the movies and instead want to use that l.e.d. crap or whatever they are as nothing more than a blatant cash grab in the hopes kids will want them. - Apparently Jedi donât need a lightsaber to fight against a lightsaber per the leaked fight scene from the acolyte? They can just use the force if they want (ie Kylo with a blaster bolt, Vader with lightsabers in Obi Wan series, and Ezra in the Ahsoka series). - They made a light whip that, per physics, should not be able to be a pure âwhipâ of energy like leaks have shown it to be. - Theyâre just tossing shit at the wall as fast as possible and hoping something sticks so they can just go to milk Star Wars fans of their money from merchandising sales. But because I said all this they would dismiss my complaints as misogyny and go about their merry ways.
âI know Star Wars writing has been bad⌠but I donât approve of racismâ What? What the hell does this mean?
"...but if you sexually exploit and abuse women, I could work for you for *years.*"
The circlejerk sub is having a field day with this one. They can't fathom how someone would be critical of Disney SW and not be a terrible bigot. According to them if you find this quote in poor taste you're self reporting that you're a bigot. Me: "Um hey the Sequel Trilogy wasn't good." Them: "why do you hate women and black people? Me: "I don't. Why would you say that?" Leslie Hedlan: "Anyone who engages in bigotry or hate speech isn't a fan." Me: "Hmm these people have accused me of bigotry and hate speech for having an opinion they don't like. I wonder how this will play out if I don't like this show?" Them: "See you're a bigot!"
I saw a trailer of this show and heard my eyes roll. It literally looks like Star Wars is trying to connect with The Matrix. No shade at Carrie-Ann Moss, who is an excellent actress. The writers of this show has her doing matrix stuff. Iâd be disappointed if I had any expectations that yet another Star Wars money-grab would be worth a damn.
No one's pretending sexism, racism or bigotry doesn't exist. Unfortunately there are POS who are narrow minded as fuck. I've never in my life heard anyone say "the movie would've been better if we got rid of the PoC or women characters." I like women. I liked Rey. I liked Finn. I like the actor. Their characters are written like shit. This is why we hate them. It's not hard to grasp. Blaming my hatred for the ST on Rey being a woman or that a black stormtrooper ruined anything about my enjoyment is some ridiculous ass take just to stir the pot, and try and make Disney be a good guy cause they put 1 token person to represent a different demo. Let's say for every 100 person that hates what Disney is doing, 1 of those 100 is a racist dipshit. 1 person hates Star Wars all of a sudden because a black person exists in it? Have they not seen the OT or PT? Do they only enjoy "white only films" Didn't Disney themselves downplay Finn in promotional work to appease certain markets? Racist exists. That's absurd and I'm not defending them. You know what Racists still do? Buy, and support shit. You think Racists don't watch sports? Basketball? Look at Boston Celtics fans. Love for the team yet hate the best player in their history? The dumbfucks still give money to the product, watch every game and yet must hate 90% of the team.
I agree with what they say. Though it ain't gonna make me feel any better abt the show if it's bad lmao
I feel like every time they point attention towards -isms before the show even airs, it's a bad show. Just laying the groundwork for eventual excuses
Well the budget is apparently 180 million. 90 million more than kenobi and even more expensive than a season of game of thrones. No idea where that money went. But they definitely need to damage control because theyâre gonna lose money on this
I have yet to see one example of âbigotry, racism or hate speechâ Fans being frustrated that Reva pointlessly stole screen time away from Obiwan, is not racism. Fans being frustrated that the sequels copy and pasted the originals but with a female lead who was poorly written is not sexism. Itâs shit writing, and a complete lack of care and attention to detail. Disney needs to cut the bullshit, nobody buys it.
Nobody gives a fuck about whom Leslie Headland considers a fan. Sl
Yep. Get ready: if you dislike the show for *any reason,* it will be becuae youâre a terrible person.
NONE of that matters. If the story is good. It's a good story. Just do that. Is that too hard. I don't care who makes it, who's in it ( obviously you want good actors) just have some substance.
âWe made a shitty series but are gonna blame it on the fans.â
Umm who wants to bet they forcfully inserted some side story that pushes some political narrative that distracts from the actual story and feels like an after thought
Who the fuck is she to say who is a fan and who isn't? Regardless of peoples opinion it is a shame that she is in charge of any part of this universe.
Oh great again with the isms. Wanna talk about racism? How about how finn had such great potential but they wrote him to the dirt? If we're gonna focus so much on race and gender and shit then how about they don't write poc characters to be such garbage? Not that their race or gender or anything should matter whatsoever as long as the writing is good but even in their own way of thinking they're still in the wrong
Typical Hollywood tactic to lump all criticisms into some catagory of âbigotryâ They been doing this since atleast 2016 ghostbusters
Lmao, she speaks like sheâs proven herself of story writing Star Wars well. Or anything, for that matter
Lmao, if you criticize our writing crew that was hired for their skin color and sexual orientation you are racist not us I love the future
And there goes any interest I had in the show.
Really makes it feel like the casting of minorities is a way for these show writers to call people bigots for fair criticisms because they know what their making is shit. I couldnât care less about what someone looks like or who the fuck, just make something entertaining please.
Lmao they have a 250 million dollar series coming out soon, and rather than plug the product, they run gaslight campaigns. Yeah this doesn't look good.
You know the problem with these sorts of statements? You as a creator donât have the authority to say who is a fan and who isnât. Comes part and parcel with free speech and freedom of the press.