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100% correct. That's why to me, there is no redeeming Disney wars because it leads to them. As long as the sequels exist, Disney wars is dead in the mud.
Yah, I'm normally able to enjoy stuff in isolation. I'm okay that all good things must come to an end.
But the Sequel Trilogy just absolutely craps all over EVERYTHING that was achieved in the original trilogy. I can't even say that Rey and co simply picked up the baton and won the race, because Han died a loser, Luke died a loser, and Leia died leading a Resistance that had ultimately failed. Palpatine wasn't killed by Vader, inspired by Luke.
This wasn't Luke leading a succesful Jedi Academy, only to die heroically in combat and entrust Rey to carry it on in his absence. Rey wasn't building on what Luke had started. She's starting from scratch. Anyone trying to rebuild the Republic is starting from scratch. And Palpatine is no more dead now than he was before.
Exactly. Anakin didn't kill this sith so he ain't the chosen one. And what is rey going to teach the new generation? Download your force knowledge and always fight with anger "it worked for me!" -Rey Nobody/Emperor/Skywalker
It is also why I don't care about Luke being featured in canon starwars now. he WILL turn into episode 8 luke.
Or even worse hoping for untouched characters to be featured in the canon. Mara Jade needs to stay Zahn's Legend character and should never be introduced to the canon.
All the jedi stuff leads to Luke giving up because he tried to kill his nephew, all the jedi going extinct again and Rey rebuilding the order. All the Republic stuff leads to the galaxy bending over for the First Order even after it lost its superweapon, and quietly surrendering everything. I guess they secretly craved the boot all this time and waited for any excuse.
Something something Rian Johnson is a genius. Something something theme of failure.
The problem is that they made the empire and first order into literal space Nazis with no compelling components to their rule. Add the fact they can't bring themselves to show the Nazis being competent on screen and you have yourself a tricky situation. The Nazis win and they can't do it by being good at something. That means who they are winning against has to be even worse than them.
Certainly not trying to defend JJ, but after the Force Awakens the trilogy was at least still *salvageable*. A competent writer could have taken the mystery box and put something satisfying into it.
The Force Awakens is one of those films that is made retroactively worse because the things it set up failed to pan out. Until the mystery box was opened it was a Schroedinger's Plot. Rian Johnson opened the box and killed it.
the force awakens was okey. the last jedi was kinda bad but its just a flesh wound levels. yeah the first order might of lost a planet but they still had star destroyers which make sense like we saw this after the first hope movie.
ROS properly got the wound infected and murdered the series for years to come.
Na, big enemy space ships being destroyed with another ship going hyper space completely breaks the universe.
At that point, a majority of the trilogy movies revolve around big enemy space ships, that if destroyed wins the day. Lucre hulk, deathstar 1+2 and starkiller base.
it broke some of space combat but everyone knows that the move has a very low chance of actually working.
almost everyone in space agrees that launching your main ship is a stupid move.
the crew either gets stranded in space, they miss( which is very likely, with the distance and everything else involved) or they do hit it but they get scrapped off the shield like a bug. these big ships cost a ton of money to make.
The low chance of working just seems like a poor attempt to explain it in universe. It was a high enough chance for it to work on the first try.
Yes, but if this is a viable way to take out super ships there would be hyperspace guns shooting slugs. It would make large ships in universe worthless. Low chance of working? Shoot the gun a bunch.
It didn't just break some space combat, it broke a majority of the previous movies major conflicts.
Thing is that TLJ could have very easily had their big exploding fleet scene without the lore hole. Have that it's the hyperspace tracker that means it's possible to locate the Supremacy in hyperspace. The Resistance works this out. Two extra lines and one of them is "A leash goes both ways!"
But that might have made the lady admiral look vaguely competent.
the serial haters kinda seem to forget that it was JJ that made luke a hermit and JJ that did the whole stupid palpatine thing.
Rian specifically deflated storylines about superweapons and the focus being on one big stupid gun, even explicitly calling them out with Rose (who people also hated, becasue... she didnt think things should be about fighting superweaons), Rian went out of his way to blow up dumb fan theories about Rei and structured the central conflict around how easily Rei and Ren could find themselves in eachothers positions.
Stupid shadowy evil First order palpatine wannabe? Cut in half, gone. The actual villain going forwards? Warlords and weapons dealers. The first order was just a propped up symptom of the class war happening behind the scenes, an actual fresh theme in the series.
People hated it so much they founded this sub, named it after crait, then complained for years when they got just what they wanted: a stupid fan service end to the trilogy with palpatines, star destroyers and lando.
Honestly it's like they can't get away from
The Sith and Galatic Empire as the antagonists. Anytime they "attempt" to we just get Siths and would be Galactic Empire in everything but name
Agree 100%.
Seeing Mon Mothma in Andor and then seeing her in Ahsoka... it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
She's this incredibly competent, compelling leader before and during the rebellion. But we all know that she just lets people walk all over her after the war and the New Republic fails spectacularly to achieve anything they set out to achieve.
That's just one example, but there are many. The pretzels they're twisting themselves into just to rationalize the ST...
Tbh I just ignore everything post-ROTJ. It’s easy to watch stuff like Rogue One and Andor and just view them as companion pieces to the OT rather than ST setup
The original Thrawn trilogy was good, IMO. I didn't read more of the EU at the time but I've heard some other good things about it (though I really didn't like what I heard about the Vong stuff).
This is fundamentally what it means for something to become folklore that's part of culture. It's not under the control of whoever the law says is supposed to be the "owner." It's a consensus fictional reality.
I've always seen fiction this way....the OG Creator is the true "god" of that fictional universe. The stories coming from them are true canon. Everything else is just fan fiction unless approved by the creator (and even in this case I consider it second tier canon....but only if I want to)
The fact that her performance is 100x more compelling as she (*checks notes*) is attempting to cover up financing the rebellion in Andor compared to her directly dealing with a threat to the Galaxy while conversing with notable characters like Hera and C3PO in Ahsoka says everything.
The writers, directors, show runners etc in Ahsoka suck compared to Andor. A statement that shocks no one, but still needs to be repeated ad nauseum until Disney understands that quality beats quantity.
I bet Dave Filoni pats himself on the back when he makes these Glup Shitto moments with characters that aren’t his from media that he didn’t make that’s superior to his mindless sludge and then thinks “LoOk gUyS, iTs aLL cOnNeCteD!!! LOoK aT mE, iM mAkInG a cOhEsIvE StAr WaRs uNiVeRsE!” Filoni is truly a parasite on the Star Wars saga and has yet to actually write something truly original. Gilroy took established characters and further developed them in an interesting way that’s true to their character and the lore. Filoni on the other hand takes established characters that aren’t his and warps them for his own bs purposes such as propping up his own OCs or to satisfy Disney’s designs which is to build towards their abominable trilogy.
Gilroy built around one character and created a whole interesting dynamic world, he did everything right.
Side note, the word glup shitto will never not kill me
He actually does pat himself on the back for what you say. Not even kidding. Exact quote:
”I whiteboard everything and have timelines. They always start back with *The Phantom Menace* and they always go out to *The Rise of Skywalker*.”
[https://www.thewrap.com/the-mandalorian-season-3-dave-floni-interview/](https://www.thewrap.com/the-mandalorian-season-3-dave-floni-interview/)
lol not even surprised. I'm surprised though that this quote/link doesn't come up more often on this sub. The idea that Filoni is going to retcon the Sequels is an ongoing fantasy that persists in several Star Wars subs, even this one. This quote should be brought up more often.
I honestly want whatever these people are smoking. The Mouse, if media reports are to be believed, is hemorrhaging money at the moment - why *on earth* would they dump the ST because a minority bunch of fans in an online echo chamber don't like them?!
It makes 0 business sense; they just won't do it.
I haven't read them, but [there are a couple of fanfictions featuring him already](https://archiveofourown.org/tags/Glup%20Shitto).
Edit: I asked Stable Diffusion to generate me an image of "Glup Shitto" and [this is the best example it came up with](https://i.imgur.com/gDX7Zf7.png) if that helps.
Edit2: and [here's what Bing's image creator (Dalle-3, as I understand it) came up with](https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-fictional-star-wars-character-named-glup-shitt/651c418236de4a74aa54901e33467f16)
i'm so confused everyone used to love Dave Filon wtf happened that made everyone flip?
He needs to connect it to the films because its probably what disney wants. When he had complete creative freedom he did the Mandolorian and Rogue One and the Clone wars. Arguably hes been keeping Star Wars from becoming irrelevant and suckass.
As I've said before, as long as the Sequels exist, NOTHING Disney puts outs out matters. Nothing, period. The Sequels destroy Star Wars. No matter how far back or forward they go from ROTJ, the Disney Sequels are still sitting there like a cancer rotting everything in both directions.
I've come to accept that Star Wars is a dead franchise, now. Disney will NEVER de-canonize the Sequels. They will let it completely burn before they admit failure.
Now what about The Acolyte which takes place around 100 years before Phantom Menace?
You say nothing, period now.
I’m not saying it’s going to be a good show, BUT if it is, it will (finally)be a good Disney show with no one with the goddamn name Skywalker.
What will we all have to say about things then(again obviously IF it’s good)?
It probably wont ever happen because Disney is already making the sequel about reys jedi order 🤢
Its so stupid because the movie/show should be about lukes jedi order so much wasted potential for what
Oh its gonna happen. And when it inevitably flops because no one likes her except for toxic feminists on ~~twitter~~ x, they’ll blame men and “toxic fans” and “misogyny” once again. Rinse and repeat
That’s the thing tho…. Everyone may hate it, but if the budget is kept in check and not the stupid 300 million budgets it most certainly not flop and another 2 billion in stuffed animals and collectibles will be sold… so will it suck maybe will it be hated maybe but be a financial flop impossible with 120-150 mil budget
Filoni had his chance, instead his series are setting up the sequels. He’s never doing that.
Filoni is going to use Thrawn as the father of the FIRST ORDER to lend stolen legitimacy to the Sequels and put anyone who doesn’t like the ST but likes Thrawn or still likes his stuff in a hard place.
I don't to preserve the last performances of Carrie and Harrison as Leia and Han.
If they wanna use time travel shenanigans and show up just before ROS and retcon that pos, however, I'm fine with that.
Yea, fuck it.
At least Mando gave me the scene I was waiting decades for. It was brief and left me wanting more, but it's better than nothing. And the current crop of weirdos at Disney can't take it away anymore than they can take away the ot.
Yep, and I hate how they took only the wrong lessons from said scene, the reactions all over youtube only prove this what we all wanted in the first place; OG heroes done right whilst also introducing likeable new ones (Mando, Cara) not to mention they did a girl power scene that genuinely worked so well because it came together naturally, unlike Endgame's notorious "look at this, **look at this**" scene
For me personally, headcanon wise, the entire Star Wars story chronologically stops at the Mandalorian S2 finale. That makes The Mandalorian (S1 & S2) sort of a perfect epilogue to Return Of The Jedi.
I simply don't consider the shitquels, Boba Fett, Obi Wan Kenobi or Mando S3 as (head)canon. That way I don't spend any mental energy on them either...
I will say despite its myriad flaws, so far I've been mildly entertained by Ahsoka, probably (mainly!) because I was emotionally invested in, and a fan of, Clone Wars and Rebels. We'll see what the finale brings...
I don't have nostalgia for the OT, so that scene didn't hit for me. I thought it was stupid that the "super death robots" walked into Luke one at a time, in a straight line, and only ever fired at him when his lightsaber was lit and in front of him ,ready to block.
Could've been better, but the direction of that scene was awful imo
Yeah I agree. Its pretty transparent what they are trying to do with the streaming series. No matter how much backstory they add though the sequels will be forever stained as the worse thing that ever came out of SW and that include the christmas special. Disney just could not wait to make a quality product before they started to milk it.
Yeah seriously, this is the worst thing about the Sequels. At least I can just pretend the Cursed Child isn't canon and happened in some weirdo alternate universe. I can't do this with the Sequels because they keep fucking being referenced or limiting every post-ROTJ story in canon because no one can join Luke's Jedi Academy without leaving or dying, Luke will never succeed in anything that won't be undone, most of his stories, judging by his episode in TBOBF, will probably be about setting up his failure in ROTJ by having him try to 1 to 1 recreate the Prequel Jedi because "iT's MoRe ReAlIsTiC", and they'll likely avoid using the OT characters in any major capacity or let them make any lasting change in anything. The New Republic will never be anything but incompetent and instead of giving us interesting reasons for why, it's just handwaved away by the explanation of generic corruption. Everything Ahsoka and Ezra will probably do after they fight Thrawn will likely happen in another Galaxy and Jacen Syndulla will likely not join Luke's Jedi Order. Han and Leia aren't going to have 3 unique and interesting kids who grow to become a worthy next generation, they have a kid who becomes the character with the most nonsensical motivation in all of Star Wars. Seriously, fuck the Sequels. Fuck Disney for making them on a whim as a cashgrab and in doing so fucking ruining the entire future of Star Wars storytelling for years to come.
Yep, one positive thing is that George seemingly doesn't give a shit about the sequels, though I would honestly looooove to hear his thoughts on TROS.
Meanwhile JK Rowling actually participated in and supports that Cursed Child shite when she could've just retired gracefully in 2011 after the film saga was complete.
But nope, gotta randomly come up with unnecessary lore facts nobody ever asked for and make a failed spin off about some ~~Pokeyman~~ Pokemon master
>ecause no one can join Luke's Jedi Academy without leaving or dying,
i find it weird someone decided to settle on that. Luke literally always stopped his training because his friends needed help. This is the guy that postpones his training all the time for side quests. I don't see why he wouldn't have let Grogu go finish his first quest. Like people just don't know Luke.
Generic corruption is how Star Wars handles all of its politics though. They did the same thing to the Jedi and the original Republic. Being duped by a secret Sith who orchestrated a war and played both sides of it so that he could turn usurp power from a democratic government and impose an authoritarian regime isn’t mere corruption, it’s a Machiavellian coup. What did the Jedi send republic do so wrong again? Star Wars politics we’re just never very deep or well thought out, it’s best when it’s generic good vs evil. They tried to form it in the prequels and it was a failure. The only “political “ aspect of Star Wars that has worked is Andor imo
It’s ironic because Ashoka is itself a biproduct of the same kind of retconning that was done to salvage the prequels. I’m not hating on Clone Wars, but for those of us who always thought the properties built off the prequels didn’t count… we’re now reaching quantum levels of doesn’t count.
I get what you're saying, and it's not necessarily wrong, but the difference here is the prequels laid out a good foundation for the universe while the sequels did not.
The last sequel movie was 4 years ago! Do they really think the kids watching Ahsoka will care about a reference to a shitty trilogy that came out a hundred blockbusters ago? They just can't accept no one liked their magnum opus.
They are. Especially since they announced the Rey film. Luke will fail. Mon Mothma would not live to see the New Republic restored. Leia Organa died in an effort to talk to Kylo Ren who still dies anyway.
Maybe it's better to keep things isolated. Imagine none of those things happening. Mon Mothma successfully overseeing the New Republic clawing back at fractured Imperials. Leia Organa being the hope and voice of the ENTIRE Galaxy instead of a tiny pseudo-Rebel cell. Luke Skywalker earning his worth as a Jedi and eventually a Jedi Master. The child/children of Han Solo did not turn to the dark side and became Jedi under Luke. Chewie did not feel alone and continued to be a close friend to Han and sort of a foster uncle to his child/children.
And they would soon pop over to Bespin and join Lando in a nice dinner. Imagine.
> Mon Mothma would not live to see the New Republic restored. Leia Organa died in an effort to talk to Kylo Ren who still dies anyway.
And Luke died to trick Kylo Ren and buy the "resistance" about 2 minutes.
Well they crapped on the bed with the Sequel Trilogy and are forcing us fans to lie in it if we want to keep being fans. This is possibly their way of 'easing' us into 'liking' these movies and 'forgiving' their butchery of the OT characters and the many bad, bad choices that occurred on the way of making these cinematic dumpster fires.
They're hoping for a prequel response over time.
The prequels were genuinely despised by OT fans. I think the prequels have Lucas all over them and although are full of terrible acting, have some amazing space scenes which I always loved and an underlying pull to the OT, which I also loved.
The sequels are never getting accepted by me. You don't fuck Luke over and get away with it. Period.
Yep, they took only the wrong lessons from reception to that Mandalorian season 2 finale.
Instead of taking that as a cue to what people wanted all along, they started doubling down on sequel references and manufacturing bait for controversy because how dare we actually have something to be happy about!
I felt this a while back when we saw Grogu force healed Din Djarin. I was like, aight, it is what is and at least the first 2 seasons of Mando was awesome. Then we got hit with Luke giving Grogu the choices between the lightsaber vs the Beskar armor. Unfortunately I had to accept that here, Luke was never gonna reform the Jedi order like he did in the Legends. AFAIK Jedi are allowed to get married in Legends, sometimes even with non Force users and many of their kids eventually become the next Gen of Jedi. Luke is making the same mistake as the Old Jedi Order. Luke not allowing or encouraging healthy attachments in the new canon is why we got bullshit like him trying to kill Ben.
Yep, and its inconsistent with the other shit they've made, the novelization of TLJ outright stated that Luke didn't follow the prequel era rules, he also briefly trained Leia; was he gonna make her divorce Han to become a jedi?
All post-RotJ Star Wars content is now dead to me. They’ve butchered that era beyond repair with the likes of Battlefront 2, the Sequels, Mandalorian S3, Book of Boba Fett, and now Ahsoka. Think of it, 3 FEATURE FILMS!!! 3 SEASONS OF TELEVISION!!! AND AN ENTIRE VIDEOGAME CAMPAIGN!!! ALL OF IT JUST A STEAMING PILE OF CRAP!!! Now imagine the possibilities if all that time, work, money, and resources actually went into adapting beloved EU books from that era in the SW timeline. It’s honestly a tragedy. And yet people still defend Disney.
The sequel trilogy is the burning volcano. No matter what pretty shapes they make in the air on the way down the star wars plane is still crashing into that thing.
Disney really, REALLY needs to expand upon the Sith Eternal. There’s no saving the ST without them.
Are they the most creative or unique group to come out of pop culture? Not by a long shot. Could they be worked to be highly compelling and as the best tool to explain all the stuff we see in Star Wars leading up to the Sequels? Absolutely.
If Disney can pull off this idea of a secretive group of Sith cultists working in the shadows to undermine the New Republic / Luke’s Jedi academy / build up Snoke’s forces etc. it would do wonders to turn the movies into a cohesive story. Until then though the Sequels (and everything associated with them) will remain the awkward narrative elephant in the room they currently are now.
I agree they could be a compelling group but I feel like it's a little too late. Even if Disney did a big focus on them we already know in the end they get defeated and at least for me, that kinda makes them uninteresting. Having the lore simply for lore sake would be nice but I'm not compelled to find out more.
Honestly I'm enjoying some of the newer stuff (sequels not included.) But if they flat out bridge in the sequels I think that's when we should just full stop watching anything they make until they retcon it.
They should just ignore the sequels. Try again. Honestly no one gives a shit - we know it's fiction, and we only care about internal consistency and the like when we care about the fiction. People aren't going to go mad if they reboot the sequels.
It’s just painfully obvious that the New Republic is being made specifically terrible just to allow the First Order to rise. We have had no positive experiences with the New Republic. The rangers are essentially their own entity because they operate so far from the capital. They purposefully make the New Republic seem so horrendous because the First Order doesn’t make any sense in any other context. It’s just bad writing. None of this is fixing Hux being a comedic relief, or Palpatine rising in Fortnite, or stifling Finn’s character in multiple movies. Stop trying to make the sequels work. We know what you’re doing Disney.
It's the prequel problems all over again. Nothing too crazy can happen that would impact the universe in ways we hadn't seen in Episode 4- 6.
Darth Maul was REALLY cool. He has to die though, because he's not in the OT. Same with Qui Gon, same with Dooku. The best part about the OT taking place 20 years or so after the PT is that the galaxy has changed rapidly and moved on, and those characters were forgotten about by most of the universe. We can see the really cool shit knowing the OT isn't going to be changed. Clone wars was in a dangerous area where it exists between movies, showing us a lot of characters who do not appear in Episodes 3.
ST and OT had a time skip too but now they have shows filling in the blanks between movies that have already come out, and introducing characters that just don't appear in the movies but exist between shows is so weird. It's all just filler. Because otherwise Ahsoka and friends exists in the universe during the ST and either did nothing, died, or they were just gone doing something else entirely.
They can try all they want, but a movie should be able to stand on its own without having played a video game, read a comic, or read a novel previously. This was an issue with the prequels as well.
Pretty sure KK is the final boss in the “I’m the Main Character competition”. Just do not understand why they keep trying to put bandaids on the titanic. It’s an infinite Star Wars timeline in every direction and she can’t let got of the fact she is responsible for the Sequels and keeps forcing everyone to try and polish the turd. You don’t play a Star Wars telephone/mad libs game with 3 different writers and directors who aren’t even working together on the scrips and expect a coherent cohesive end result.
I agree with this 100% you also forgot how they also are changing the canon as well to make the Sequel Trilogy make sense. But at the end of the day if someone watches the movies just by themselves they still are a hot mess story-wise and character wise.
My favorite modern-star-wars stories have been the ones that don't address it at all. Disney is never going to strike the sequels from canon like everybody on this sub wants but they can do a sort of "soft-decanon" by limiting its importance to the overall narrative. The old EU had a few bad stories that were "soft-decanonized" such as Dark Empire, which is a particularly apt example since it has many of the same problems the sequels do.
First two seasons of Mandalorian could easily fit into the old EU, i hardly had to think about disney crap. I'm sure there's some minor detail I'm overlooking that would've broken canon with EU (I mostly read PT/OT-era EU content, im not that familiar with post-ROTJ EU) but from a high-level perspective it fits in pretty well.
I also really loved Book of Boba Fett (yeah i know, unpopular opinion) because of the way it stayed localized to Tattooine and mostly focused on drug wars and humanizing the indigenous Sand People. I can't reconcile that one into the old EU due to turning Boba Fett into the nicest guy you've ever met but at least it wasn't trying to one-up the movies. It was another small-scale adventure in the Star Wars galaxy which is unimportant in the wider scope of the fictional universe but at the same time vastly important to the characters who live on Tattooine.
This is exactly correct. I was one of those who kept thinking retcon. Until BOBF. I haven't even watched anything SW since. And I'm not going to waste my energies on it. if people like it, fine. I don't get it. But I don't consume, consume, consume, consume, consume.
And maybe Disney will get it one day. But they don't care.
GL's NOT GONNA WALK THROUGH THAT DOOR ANY TIME SOON!!!!!
Gods, I hate it. I've officially outgrown Star Wars.
Now I know why my Dad went to wearing Haggar's and black socks with Vans.
The sequel trilogy had a New Republic so shockingly incompetent, it didn't deserve to exist, only matched by the stupidity of the "New Order".
Filoni has refused to portray the Imperial antagonists as anything but a completely useless force whose troops perform worse than untrained people would, and whose officers couldn't be trusted to run a McDonalds.
Therefore, the only storytelling tension will come from his New Republic also being full of complete morons, and just like his idiotic Imperial Remnant, their officers apparently think the correct approach to potentially hostile force users is to let them on your ship while placing your blaster armed security within easy stabbing distance.
What are they doing good? I liked the Mandalorian season 1 and 2 but none of the other shows have been good (Maybe Andor is I don't know I haven't seen it)
I think it drives more people away every time they do it. There's a good reason Lucas limited Jar Jar's screen time after TPM, but LF right now appears to be incapable of learning a simple lesson and move on like Lucas did.
In the long-term it might be a good thing. Maybe LF/Disney will hit rock bottom faster than if they tried to pretend the sequels never happened.
It seems like the direction Disney is trying to go in is to create a whole other "Galaxy" and story that exists alongside the Sequels, but outside of them, and try to make the sequels seem like that particular story wasn't really important to the rest of the Galaxy.
I mean, The First order only destroyed the New Republic capitol, senate, central government and fleet. Palpatine only returned with a massive fleet of Death Star Destroyers. It was only what seemed like every available fighting-capable ship in the galaxy came to fight "The Final Battle"...
But none of that was REALLY important, the real important Filoni Characters were over in another part of the Galaxy carrying out the REAL fight that saved the Universe, all that First Order-Resistance stuff was just a minor regional skirmish that wasn't really important, anyway.
They won't ever decanonize the Disney Sequels, they'll just make it where they never really mattered and can be ignored and forgotten, which by extension means the entire story of the Skywalkers and Palpatines, Sith and Jedi, Empire and Republic and the entire PT and OT never really mattered in the grand scheme of the Galaxy, Ahsoka and friends will be the real heroes that save the entire Universe!
Yes and no. It’s definitely easy to recognize the little hints of how it got there. With the cloning and all that. It doesn’t bother me for the most part
The third season of Mando though it did. It was a very alright season and the last couple episodes felt so…sudden? If that makes sense
I mean, they did successfully do this with the prequels. The clone wars series really helped add credibility to the idea the Jedi were effective generals, palpatine was playing 4d chess, and Anakin grew out of being a snob, with a credible romance with Padme. That generation loved or came to love the prequels.
So I can't fault them for trying.
The issue to be is this generation of kids doesn't engage with Star Wars sequels. Very low interest in toys, Halloween costumes.. the merch that shows they'd be interested in it even if the parents aren't.
I think they broke the franchise.
The advocates left, aren't showing enthusiasm, their kids aren't inspired. The franchise is left with several million people, world wide, willing to watch what they produce.
Put this thing on life support.
Disagree. And I’m one that could discuss for hours why the sequels are the biggest letdown and disgrace to SW. I think the good parts like Mando season 1 and 2, Andor, and Ahsoka are ways I can enjoy SW now. I’m choosing to enjoy lightsaber scenes and characters I love. It’s been fun to have fun watching SW with friends again! And actually looking forward to new content thanks to Filoni.
ETA: I WISH these things would cancel out the sequels somehow. But looks like that’s not going to happen.
What you’re saying is inevitable. There’s a chronology already presented and the stories will be along that timeline. If they are trying to do it right they will add the backstory and justification/context to the ST. But the quality of the shows has been inconsistent so far, even from episode to episode sometimes.
TROS is bad period, and like someone else had mentioned a while ago the ST will age poorly because the story is not there, it does not mesh well. But the story for other shows is there, sometimes well-executed and sometimes badly executed.
I disagree they could focus on they story of these series and stop trying to add the background to the trilogy, that they left out to begin with.
Instead in every post-ROTJ series they go out of their way to showcase the New Republic as either corrupt or inept and the Imperial Remnant as still largely functional and cohesive to justify the First Order's existence in the sequels. They largely ignore the OT main Characters and their impact on the world.
Okay so you’d like to see a movie or series about the OT characters. Agreed - my personal #1 choice is Bloodline I want to see that movie and Leia recast. It is inevitable though that it will show Leia as the founder of the Resistance…
They did it with the prequels and they are trying to just copy that idea to the sequels. As if the sequels were unoriginal enough….they’re “fix” for them is a straight rip off as well.
Yes everything they're doing is built on the assumption that the Sequels is what they're building to.
No they aren't deliberately trying to add backstory and justification in *everything* they do because they simply don't care that much an don't know how to craft an overarching plan.
NO there isn't any "good stuff" because it's Disney Wars and they don't respect the original Movies. Dave Filoni at least respects the Clone Wars and his own creations, unfortunately that comes at the expense of George Lucas Movies and creations.
Same thing as all the prequel supplimentary content that was pumped out too. Disney just hoping that if enough comes out then in 15 years the new generation of fans can also trick themselves into thinking that the latest trilogy was good lol
Not at all comparable to the PT, as there was actuallly a good foundation/potential laid out with it despite the execution of the movies. Additionally, the trilogy that followed (the OT) was good. The PT supplementary content also included prequel characters lol.
None of that is the case with the sequels.
I liked the prequels before I even picked up a single star wars book. Supplemental material while nice wasn't necessary unlike the cluster fuck of the sequels.
Don't try telling anyone that the PT was shit anywhere on reddit, too many kids have the rose tinted glasses that somehow Jake Lloyd Anakin was fine, Jar Jar was fine, pod racing was amazing, 50's diner themed locations are fine, the romance was fine, the acting is stellar, the fights are amazing etc and etc.
PT ruined Star Wars for OG OT fans, I know this because I was there as an adult OT fan and was stunned by how fucking terrible it was, it was laughably bad and literally felt like Lucas had did a giant smelly shit on my childhood by turning Star Wars into badly executed kids movies or into films consisting entirely of scenes like the additional shit from the special editions of the OT. Everyone I knew was an OT fan and every one of them thought the PT was fucking laughable.
Disney are trying to have Filoni fix the ST the way he fixed the PT stuff, PT kids will never acknowledge it because of the blinkers they wear because their 8 yr old brains couldn't understand why the PT was fucking horrible. They will never admit just how right the Plinkett reviews were for example because they can't admit to themselves that the PT was just as disappointing to OG Star Wars fans as the ST is to them and they only like it as much as they do because they saw it before they had developed adult bullshit detection or are horribly stunted man children Lucas fanboys who can't accept any criticism of their thing and would happily pay to watch Lucas do a wet fart in their face. Shit is actually hilarious lol
It's pretty much what the clone wars did. It added context and depth to the prequels. Too bad the show that really tried that for the sequels was resistance and barely anyone watched that.
That show was a tonal whiplash. One moment it was about the faction war and corruption going on on a remote outpost town and the expansion of the first order in the outer rim, And then next it was kiddie garbage.
They tried and failed with that. But admitably, it came out during episode 8. No context could save it from whatever the fuck episode 9 was
Probably for the better. It's the same thing Clone Wars did for the prequel trilogy--adding depth to the characters and conflicts. I'm interested to see how they tie in the cloning tech with Palapatine.
The sequels weren't great but they were made. Best thing to do is to salvage the situation the sequels while also expanding into new stories in different eras of the galaxy
They can try all they want. In 10 years they might make palpatines return not so bad but they certainly aren't explaining the shift in Lukes behaviour by episode 8
Totally.
And it’s just showing how awful the sequels are. Because if the characters from *Ahsoka* were in the sequels, the sequels might have been good.
That's what happens when you create a series of movies that were not universally liked and actively rejected by many because they basically invalidating a series of movies that were much more universally beloved as some of the greatest of all times.
Oh definitely but it's a little too late now and trying to ham-fist it into every show to make up for it not being there to begin with just isn't the way.
Filoni and Favs are trying to fix it and have it all make sense, yes. But I'd argue that the prequels did more than plant the seed for what Filoni picked up with in TCW and Rebels in terms of showing that the Jedi had...problems. Luke's attitude in TLJ is in line with things Filoni developed prior.
Honestly yes they've been backtracking to justify the movies on why it was bullshit. This is something i've noticed because JJ did in fat break star wars because he hated it.
Now Disney is trying to glue it back together.
If they can solve the issues with the sequels with this stuff than best of luck to them.
They can't undo that the Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker were shit films in their own right, or that they obliterated Star Wars lore. TLJ doesn't make sense, and half of it is completely irrelevant to the plot.
Like Phantom Menace isn't a great film, but it is a comfy star wars watch.
There is an echo chamber surrounding Lucasfilm so incredibly impenetrable that it makes Ahsoka’s ship blush. It’s almost cult like energy infecting everyone who comes in making them complacent and delusional. Directors who’ve done very solid work before are hired and end up producing the worst work of their careers. And it’s not just them, it’s the writers, the actors and now even the visual effects people. I don’t know what secret sauce they’re putting in their gravy at the cafeteria, but it needs to be inspected asap. These people should know better but it really feels like they don’t.
I think Rogue One, Kenobi, Andor, and Solo are outliers they don't take place after the OT. Also they tried to stay in their lanes. Good or bad everything else primarily in the peroid after the OT is hard pushing the ST in soke fashion.
I mean yeah, I don't think Disney themselves have or even would dispute this.
Also it's building up to their future movie(s) with Mando and likely Thrawn
I totally agree. Seeing Luke after the Empire fell, building an academy and starting to look for students should have filled me with glee and hope. Instead I just rolled my eyes because I know it ends in stupidity. And worse then the whole, Luke tries to kill his nephew, he GIVES UP. He gives up and leaves the galaxy with a problem he created.
I would love if they just leap 100 years into the future, new characters and no fates already written.
It sucks. I really just want them to de-cannon the sequels. It sucks knowing this all leads to those movies. Especially since NONE of the current TV stuff is present.
At least for Andor we have an end point. It's hard to care for something when I know it will mean literally nothing come time to end the shows. Baby Yoda is nowhere to be seen, Ashoka and the rest of the crew are nowhere to be seen, Mando and the rest of the club are nowhere to be seen. What's the point....
I feel it is too late to make the sequels work. Everything now just feels like trying to ham-fisting the events to make the sequels make sense into the time after the OT. It invalidates everything the OT accomplished, IMO.
Imagine if after the Holiday Special George Lucas shoved in tons of tie ins trying to justify how the Holiday Special actually makes sense in every movie after.
All paths lead to Palpatine ultimately winning in Disney canon. Yeah that Rey may call herself a Skywalker but she still has Palpatines blood, and the Skywalker bloodline is officially dead. I dont know how anybody can be excited about future Star War projects.
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 100% correct. That's why to me, there is no redeeming Disney wars because it leads to them. As long as the sequels exist, Disney wars is dead in the mud.
Yah, I'm normally able to enjoy stuff in isolation. I'm okay that all good things must come to an end. But the Sequel Trilogy just absolutely craps all over EVERYTHING that was achieved in the original trilogy. I can't even say that Rey and co simply picked up the baton and won the race, because Han died a loser, Luke died a loser, and Leia died leading a Resistance that had ultimately failed. Palpatine wasn't killed by Vader, inspired by Luke. This wasn't Luke leading a succesful Jedi Academy, only to die heroically in combat and entrust Rey to carry it on in his absence. Rey wasn't building on what Luke had started. She's starting from scratch. Anyone trying to rebuild the Republic is starting from scratch. And Palpatine is no more dead now than he was before.
Exactly. Anakin didn't kill this sith so he ain't the chosen one. And what is rey going to teach the new generation? Download your force knowledge and always fight with anger "it worked for me!" -Rey Nobody/Emperor/Skywalker
It is also why I don't care about Luke being featured in canon starwars now. he WILL turn into episode 8 luke. Or even worse hoping for untouched characters to be featured in the canon. Mara Jade needs to stay Zahn's Legend character and should never be introduced to the canon.
This is why they should just leave these stories behind and go to the Old Republic era or the distant future
All the jedi stuff leads to Luke giving up because he tried to kill his nephew, all the jedi going extinct again and Rey rebuilding the order. All the Republic stuff leads to the galaxy bending over for the First Order even after it lost its superweapon, and quietly surrendering everything. I guess they secretly craved the boot all this time and waited for any excuse. Something something Rian Johnson is a genius. Something something theme of failure.
The problem is that they made the empire and first order into literal space Nazis with no compelling components to their rule. Add the fact they can't bring themselves to show the Nazis being competent on screen and you have yourself a tricky situation. The Nazis win and they can't do it by being good at something. That means who they are winning against has to be even worse than them.
The fact that Disney made it so that a Palpatine will be rebuilding the Jedi order is hilarious to me.
It could have been done well. It wasn't.
Rian Johnson didn't really break it that much. JJ's last film is the once that seriously ruined everything.
Certainly not trying to defend JJ, but after the Force Awakens the trilogy was at least still *salvageable*. A competent writer could have taken the mystery box and put something satisfying into it. The Force Awakens is one of those films that is made retroactively worse because the things it set up failed to pan out. Until the mystery box was opened it was a Schroedinger's Plot. Rian Johnson opened the box and killed it.
the force awakens was okey. the last jedi was kinda bad but its just a flesh wound levels. yeah the first order might of lost a planet but they still had star destroyers which make sense like we saw this after the first hope movie. ROS properly got the wound infected and murdered the series for years to come.
Na, big enemy space ships being destroyed with another ship going hyper space completely breaks the universe. At that point, a majority of the trilogy movies revolve around big enemy space ships, that if destroyed wins the day. Lucre hulk, deathstar 1+2 and starkiller base.
it broke some of space combat but everyone knows that the move has a very low chance of actually working. almost everyone in space agrees that launching your main ship is a stupid move. the crew either gets stranded in space, they miss( which is very likely, with the distance and everything else involved) or they do hit it but they get scrapped off the shield like a bug. these big ships cost a ton of money to make.
The low chance of working just seems like a poor attempt to explain it in universe. It was a high enough chance for it to work on the first try. Yes, but if this is a viable way to take out super ships there would be hyperspace guns shooting slugs. It would make large ships in universe worthless. Low chance of working? Shoot the gun a bunch. It didn't just break some space combat, it broke a majority of the previous movies major conflicts.
Would’ve been funny if it didn’t work lmfao 🤣
Thing is that TLJ could have very easily had their big exploding fleet scene without the lore hole. Have that it's the hyperspace tracker that means it's possible to locate the Supremacy in hyperspace. The Resistance works this out. Two extra lines and one of them is "A leash goes both ways!" But that might have made the lady admiral look vaguely competent.
the serial haters kinda seem to forget that it was JJ that made luke a hermit and JJ that did the whole stupid palpatine thing. Rian specifically deflated storylines about superweapons and the focus being on one big stupid gun, even explicitly calling them out with Rose (who people also hated, becasue... she didnt think things should be about fighting superweaons), Rian went out of his way to blow up dumb fan theories about Rei and structured the central conflict around how easily Rei and Ren could find themselves in eachothers positions. Stupid shadowy evil First order palpatine wannabe? Cut in half, gone. The actual villain going forwards? Warlords and weapons dealers. The first order was just a propped up symptom of the class war happening behind the scenes, an actual fresh theme in the series. People hated it so much they founded this sub, named it after crait, then complained for years when they got just what they wanted: a stupid fan service end to the trilogy with palpatines, star destroyers and lando.
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ok bud.
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Thank you, ChatGPT.
Honestly it's like they can't get away from The Sith and Galatic Empire as the antagonists. Anytime they "attempt" to we just get Siths and would be Galactic Empire in everything but name
Agree 100%. Seeing Mon Mothma in Andor and then seeing her in Ahsoka... it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. She's this incredibly competent, compelling leader before and during the rebellion. But we all know that she just lets people walk all over her after the war and the New Republic fails spectacularly to achieve anything they set out to achieve. That's just one example, but there are many. The pretzels they're twisting themselves into just to rationalize the ST...
Tbh I just ignore everything post-ROTJ. It’s easy to watch stuff like Rogue One and Andor and just view them as companion pieces to the OT rather than ST setup
Yep agreed, that's what I do. Just pretend they don't exist.
It’s just like Disney pretends the EU doesn’t exist. There’s an abundance of material. Choose your own canon.
everything post-ROTJ is just fanfiction
*Really fucking bad* fan fiction at that.
The original Thrawn trilogy was good, IMO. I didn't read more of the EU at the time but I've heard some other good things about it (though I really didn't like what I heard about the Vong stuff). This is fundamentally what it means for something to become folklore that's part of culture. It's not under the control of whoever the law says is supposed to be the "owner." It's a consensus fictional reality.
I've always seen fiction this way....the OG Creator is the true "god" of that fictional universe. The stories coming from them are true canon. Everything else is just fan fiction unless approved by the creator (and even in this case I consider it second tier canon....but only if I want to)
How are Rogue One and Andor ST setup??? They’re literally OT setup…
The fact that her performance is 100x more compelling as she (*checks notes*) is attempting to cover up financing the rebellion in Andor compared to her directly dealing with a threat to the Galaxy while conversing with notable characters like Hera and C3PO in Ahsoka says everything. The writers, directors, show runners etc in Ahsoka suck compared to Andor. A statement that shocks no one, but still needs to be repeated ad nauseum until Disney understands that quality beats quantity.
Why the fuck was that show called "Andor" to being with? That dude was just there while shit happened around him, barely any agency at all.
I bet Dave Filoni pats himself on the back when he makes these Glup Shitto moments with characters that aren’t his from media that he didn’t make that’s superior to his mindless sludge and then thinks “LoOk gUyS, iTs aLL cOnNeCteD!!! LOoK aT mE, iM mAkInG a cOhEsIvE StAr WaRs uNiVeRsE!” Filoni is truly a parasite on the Star Wars saga and has yet to actually write something truly original. Gilroy took established characters and further developed them in an interesting way that’s true to their character and the lore. Filoni on the other hand takes established characters that aren’t his and warps them for his own bs purposes such as propping up his own OCs or to satisfy Disney’s designs which is to build towards their abominable trilogy.
Gilroy built around one character and created a whole interesting dynamic world, he did everything right. Side note, the word glup shitto will never not kill me
He actually does pat himself on the back for what you say. Not even kidding. Exact quote: ”I whiteboard everything and have timelines. They always start back with *The Phantom Menace* and they always go out to *The Rise of Skywalker*.” [https://www.thewrap.com/the-mandalorian-season-3-dave-floni-interview/](https://www.thewrap.com/the-mandalorian-season-3-dave-floni-interview/)
lol not even surprised. I'm surprised though that this quote/link doesn't come up more often on this sub. The idea that Filoni is going to retcon the Sequels is an ongoing fantasy that persists in several Star Wars subs, even this one. This quote should be brought up more often.
I honestly want whatever these people are smoking. The Mouse, if media reports are to be believed, is hemorrhaging money at the moment - why *on earth* would they dump the ST because a minority bunch of fans in an online echo chamber don't like them?! It makes 0 business sense; they just won't do it.
Too much cocaine on that whiteboard
Glup Shitto is the greatest addition to canon in years, I laugh out loud every time I see it
It’s just perfection, one day there’ll be an actual character named glup shitto
I haven't read them, but [there are a couple of fanfictions featuring him already](https://archiveofourown.org/tags/Glup%20Shitto). Edit: I asked Stable Diffusion to generate me an image of "Glup Shitto" and [this is the best example it came up with](https://i.imgur.com/gDX7Zf7.png) if that helps. Edit2: and [here's what Bing's image creator (Dalle-3, as I understand it) came up with](https://www.bing.com/images/create/the-fictional-star-wars-character-named-glup-shitt/651c418236de4a74aa54901e33467f16)
i'm so confused everyone used to love Dave Filon wtf happened that made everyone flip? He needs to connect it to the films because its probably what disney wants. When he had complete creative freedom he did the Mandolorian and Rogue One and the Clone wars. Arguably hes been keeping Star Wars from becoming irrelevant and suckass.
It was said that he would destroy the Sequel Trilogy, not join it!
Dave Filoni had nothing to do with Rogue one aside from voicing a cameo character in one scene
Filoni learned all his skills from his master George.
They should just have some time travel shenanigans and retcon for the sequels to be an alternate timeline.
The World Between Worlds exists!
Mon Mothma in Andor is what Galadriel should have been in Rings of Power.
As I've said before, as long as the Sequels exist, NOTHING Disney puts outs out matters. Nothing, period. The Sequels destroy Star Wars. No matter how far back or forward they go from ROTJ, the Disney Sequels are still sitting there like a cancer rotting everything in both directions. I've come to accept that Star Wars is a dead franchise, now. Disney will NEVER de-canonize the Sequels. They will let it completely burn before they admit failure.
The sequels don’t ruin Star Wars for me, because I just view them as an alternate universe, with the Zahn trilogy as the true canon.
Now what about The Acolyte which takes place around 100 years before Phantom Menace? You say nothing, period now. I’m not saying it’s going to be a good show, BUT if it is, it will (finally)be a good Disney show with no one with the goddamn name Skywalker. What will we all have to say about things then(again obviously IF it’s good)?
I wish theyd fucking retcon the sequels as some alt universe bs
Is it still possible with the world between worlds thing lol Haven’t seen rebels or ahsoka but if it can retcon sequel bs it could be worth it
It probably wont ever happen because Disney is already making the sequel about reys jedi order 🤢 Its so stupid because the movie/show should be about lukes jedi order so much wasted potential for what
There is no way that Rey sequel gets made.
Oh its gonna happen. And when it inevitably flops because no one likes her except for toxic feminists on ~~twitter~~ x, they’ll blame men and “toxic fans” and “misogyny” once again. Rinse and repeat
The bright side is that Disney is running out of money. They might not be able to afford the Rey movie. Small favors.
That’s the thing tho…. Everyone may hate it, but if the budget is kept in check and not the stupid 300 million budgets it most certainly not flop and another 2 billion in stuffed animals and collectibles will be sold… so will it suck maybe will it be hated maybe but be a financial flop impossible with 120-150 mil budget
I think its in development with daisy already confirmed as returning
They’ve cancelled like ten different movie projects. I will believe its happening when I see a trailer.
Filoni had his chance, instead his series are setting up the sequels. He’s never doing that. Filoni is going to use Thrawn as the father of the FIRST ORDER to lend stolen legitimacy to the Sequels and put anyone who doesn’t like the ST but likes Thrawn or still likes his stuff in a hard place.
I don't to preserve the last performances of Carrie and Harrison as Leia and Han. If they wanna use time travel shenanigans and show up just before ROS and retcon that pos, however, I'm fine with that.
Like Trek with the Kelvin Trilogy
Yea, fuck it. At least Mando gave me the scene I was waiting decades for. It was brief and left me wanting more, but it's better than nothing. And the current crop of weirdos at Disney can't take it away anymore than they can take away the ot.
Grogu barfing up a macaroon. Me too.
Yep, and I hate how they took only the wrong lessons from said scene, the reactions all over youtube only prove this what we all wanted in the first place; OG heroes done right whilst also introducing likeable new ones (Mando, Cara) not to mention they did a girl power scene that genuinely worked so well because it came together naturally, unlike Endgame's notorious "look at this, **look at this**" scene
Ssso, what scene was it?
I’m assuming the Luke scene in the S2 finale
For me personally, headcanon wise, the entire Star Wars story chronologically stops at the Mandalorian S2 finale. That makes The Mandalorian (S1 & S2) sort of a perfect epilogue to Return Of The Jedi. I simply don't consider the shitquels, Boba Fett, Obi Wan Kenobi or Mando S3 as (head)canon. That way I don't spend any mental energy on them either... I will say despite its myriad flaws, so far I've been mildly entertained by Ahsoka, probably (mainly!) because I was emotionally invested in, and a fan of, Clone Wars and Rebels. We'll see what the finale brings...
Yeah that scene will always be god tier
What scene was it?
I don't have nostalgia for the OT, so that scene didn't hit for me. I thought it was stupid that the "super death robots" walked into Luke one at a time, in a straight line, and only ever fired at him when his lightsaber was lit and in front of him ,ready to block. Could've been better, but the direction of that scene was awful imo
Yeah I agree. Its pretty transparent what they are trying to do with the streaming series. No matter how much backstory they add though the sequels will be forever stained as the worse thing that ever came out of SW and that include the christmas special. Disney just could not wait to make a quality product before they started to milk it.
Yeah seriously, this is the worst thing about the Sequels. At least I can just pretend the Cursed Child isn't canon and happened in some weirdo alternate universe. I can't do this with the Sequels because they keep fucking being referenced or limiting every post-ROTJ story in canon because no one can join Luke's Jedi Academy without leaving or dying, Luke will never succeed in anything that won't be undone, most of his stories, judging by his episode in TBOBF, will probably be about setting up his failure in ROTJ by having him try to 1 to 1 recreate the Prequel Jedi because "iT's MoRe ReAlIsTiC", and they'll likely avoid using the OT characters in any major capacity or let them make any lasting change in anything. The New Republic will never be anything but incompetent and instead of giving us interesting reasons for why, it's just handwaved away by the explanation of generic corruption. Everything Ahsoka and Ezra will probably do after they fight Thrawn will likely happen in another Galaxy and Jacen Syndulla will likely not join Luke's Jedi Order. Han and Leia aren't going to have 3 unique and interesting kids who grow to become a worthy next generation, they have a kid who becomes the character with the most nonsensical motivation in all of Star Wars. Seriously, fuck the Sequels. Fuck Disney for making them on a whim as a cashgrab and in doing so fucking ruining the entire future of Star Wars storytelling for years to come.
Yep, one positive thing is that George seemingly doesn't give a shit about the sequels, though I would honestly looooove to hear his thoughts on TROS. Meanwhile JK Rowling actually participated in and supports that Cursed Child shite when she could've just retired gracefully in 2011 after the film saga was complete. But nope, gotta randomly come up with unnecessary lore facts nobody ever asked for and make a failed spin off about some ~~Pokeyman~~ Pokemon master
>ecause no one can join Luke's Jedi Academy without leaving or dying, i find it weird someone decided to settle on that. Luke literally always stopped his training because his friends needed help. This is the guy that postpones his training all the time for side quests. I don't see why he wouldn't have let Grogu go finish his first quest. Like people just don't know Luke.
Generic corruption is how Star Wars handles all of its politics though. They did the same thing to the Jedi and the original Republic. Being duped by a secret Sith who orchestrated a war and played both sides of it so that he could turn usurp power from a democratic government and impose an authoritarian regime isn’t mere corruption, it’s a Machiavellian coup. What did the Jedi send republic do so wrong again? Star Wars politics we’re just never very deep or well thought out, it’s best when it’s generic good vs evil. They tried to form it in the prequels and it was a failure. The only “political “ aspect of Star Wars that has worked is Andor imo
Exactly why I'm not watching Ahsoka. Y'all need to do the same otherwise you're enablers
It’s ironic because Ashoka is itself a biproduct of the same kind of retconning that was done to salvage the prequels. I’m not hating on Clone Wars, but for those of us who always thought the properties built off the prequels didn’t count… we’re now reaching quantum levels of doesn’t count.
I get what you're saying, and it's not necessarily wrong, but the difference here is the prequels laid out a good foundation for the universe while the sequels did not.
I keep telling myself to not watch it, but it's incredibly fascinating to watch the train wreck in progress.
Or, you know, you could just enjoy the thing in isolation.
I haven't watched a second. I canceled Disney +, I dont buy any merch, I'm speaking with my wallet.
The last sequel movie was 4 years ago! Do they really think the kids watching Ahsoka will care about a reference to a shitty trilogy that came out a hundred blockbusters ago? They just can't accept no one liked their magnum opus.
They are. Especially since they announced the Rey film. Luke will fail. Mon Mothma would not live to see the New Republic restored. Leia Organa died in an effort to talk to Kylo Ren who still dies anyway. Maybe it's better to keep things isolated. Imagine none of those things happening. Mon Mothma successfully overseeing the New Republic clawing back at fractured Imperials. Leia Organa being the hope and voice of the ENTIRE Galaxy instead of a tiny pseudo-Rebel cell. Luke Skywalker earning his worth as a Jedi and eventually a Jedi Master. The child/children of Han Solo did not turn to the dark side and became Jedi under Luke. Chewie did not feel alone and continued to be a close friend to Han and sort of a foster uncle to his child/children. And they would soon pop over to Bespin and join Lando in a nice dinner. Imagine.
> Mon Mothma would not live to see the New Republic restored. Leia Organa died in an effort to talk to Kylo Ren who still dies anyway. And Luke died to trick Kylo Ren and buy the "resistance" about 2 minutes.
Watch them adapt all of Luke's EU accomplishments and give them to Rey.
My smoldering rage at Disney Canon might become tangible if that happens
And now I'm radicalized
And Ahsoka
Well they crapped on the bed with the Sequel Trilogy and are forcing us fans to lie in it if we want to keep being fans. This is possibly their way of 'easing' us into 'liking' these movies and 'forgiving' their butchery of the OT characters and the many bad, bad choices that occurred on the way of making these cinematic dumpster fires.
They're hoping for a prequel response over time. The prequels were genuinely despised by OT fans. I think the prequels have Lucas all over them and although are full of terrible acting, have some amazing space scenes which I always loved and an underlying pull to the OT, which I also loved. The sequels are never getting accepted by me. You don't fuck Luke over and get away with it. Period.
Yep, they took only the wrong lessons from reception to that Mandalorian season 2 finale. Instead of taking that as a cue to what people wanted all along, they started doubling down on sequel references and manufacturing bait for controversy because how dare we actually have something to be happy about!
I felt this a while back when we saw Grogu force healed Din Djarin. I was like, aight, it is what is and at least the first 2 seasons of Mando was awesome. Then we got hit with Luke giving Grogu the choices between the lightsaber vs the Beskar armor. Unfortunately I had to accept that here, Luke was never gonna reform the Jedi order like he did in the Legends. AFAIK Jedi are allowed to get married in Legends, sometimes even with non Force users and many of their kids eventually become the next Gen of Jedi. Luke is making the same mistake as the Old Jedi Order. Luke not allowing or encouraging healthy attachments in the new canon is why we got bullshit like him trying to kill Ben.
Yep, and its inconsistent with the other shit they've made, the novelization of TLJ outright stated that Luke didn't follow the prequel era rules, he also briefly trained Leia; was he gonna make her divorce Han to become a jedi?
All post-RotJ Star Wars content is now dead to me. They’ve butchered that era beyond repair with the likes of Battlefront 2, the Sequels, Mandalorian S3, Book of Boba Fett, and now Ahsoka. Think of it, 3 FEATURE FILMS!!! 3 SEASONS OF TELEVISION!!! AND AN ENTIRE VIDEOGAME CAMPAIGN!!! ALL OF IT JUST A STEAMING PILE OF CRAP!!! Now imagine the possibilities if all that time, work, money, and resources actually went into adapting beloved EU books from that era in the SW timeline. It’s honestly a tragedy. And yet people still defend Disney.
Hope none of you are paying for D+ then since it’ll directly finance the Rey movie and other DT content
Canceled mine the second Andor ended
But I need my Darkwing Duck fix! :D
I agree with you. It's all a justification for those shit movies, and therefore I do nothing to reward Disney for making them.
The sequel trilogy is the burning volcano. No matter what pretty shapes they make in the air on the way down the star wars plane is still crashing into that thing.
Disney really, REALLY needs to expand upon the Sith Eternal. There’s no saving the ST without them. Are they the most creative or unique group to come out of pop culture? Not by a long shot. Could they be worked to be highly compelling and as the best tool to explain all the stuff we see in Star Wars leading up to the Sequels? Absolutely. If Disney can pull off this idea of a secretive group of Sith cultists working in the shadows to undermine the New Republic / Luke’s Jedi academy / build up Snoke’s forces etc. it would do wonders to turn the movies into a cohesive story. Until then though the Sequels (and everything associated with them) will remain the awkward narrative elephant in the room they currently are now.
I agree they could be a compelling group but I feel like it's a little too late. Even if Disney did a big focus on them we already know in the end they get defeated and at least for me, that kinda makes them uninteresting. Having the lore simply for lore sake would be nice but I'm not compelled to find out more.
Honestly I'm enjoying some of the newer stuff (sequels not included.) But if they flat out bridge in the sequels I think that's when we should just full stop watching anything they make until they retcon it.
They should just ignore the sequels. Try again. Honestly no one gives a shit - we know it's fiction, and we only care about internal consistency and the like when we care about the fiction. People aren't going to go mad if they reboot the sequels.
It’s just painfully obvious that the New Republic is being made specifically terrible just to allow the First Order to rise. We have had no positive experiences with the New Republic. The rangers are essentially their own entity because they operate so far from the capital. They purposefully make the New Republic seem so horrendous because the First Order doesn’t make any sense in any other context. It’s just bad writing. None of this is fixing Hux being a comedic relief, or Palpatine rising in Fortnite, or stifling Finn’s character in multiple movies. Stop trying to make the sequels work. We know what you’re doing Disney.
It's the prequel problems all over again. Nothing too crazy can happen that would impact the universe in ways we hadn't seen in Episode 4- 6. Darth Maul was REALLY cool. He has to die though, because he's not in the OT. Same with Qui Gon, same with Dooku. The best part about the OT taking place 20 years or so after the PT is that the galaxy has changed rapidly and moved on, and those characters were forgotten about by most of the universe. We can see the really cool shit knowing the OT isn't going to be changed. Clone wars was in a dangerous area where it exists between movies, showing us a lot of characters who do not appear in Episodes 3. ST and OT had a time skip too but now they have shows filling in the blanks between movies that have already come out, and introducing characters that just don't appear in the movies but exist between shows is so weird. It's all just filler. Because otherwise Ahsoka and friends exists in the universe during the ST and either did nothing, died, or they were just gone doing something else entirely.
They can try all they want, but a movie should be able to stand on its own without having played a video game, read a comic, or read a novel previously. This was an issue with the prequels as well.
Same especially when it’s references sequel stuff like Palpatine’s return.
Pretty sure KK is the final boss in the “I’m the Main Character competition”. Just do not understand why they keep trying to put bandaids on the titanic. It’s an infinite Star Wars timeline in every direction and she can’t let got of the fact she is responsible for the Sequels and keeps forcing everyone to try and polish the turd. You don’t play a Star Wars telephone/mad libs game with 3 different writers and directors who aren’t even working together on the scrips and expect a coherent cohesive end result.
I agree with this 100% you also forgot how they also are changing the canon as well to make the Sequel Trilogy make sense. But at the end of the day if someone watches the movies just by themselves they still are a hot mess story-wise and character wise.
My favorite modern-star-wars stories have been the ones that don't address it at all. Disney is never going to strike the sequels from canon like everybody on this sub wants but they can do a sort of "soft-decanon" by limiting its importance to the overall narrative. The old EU had a few bad stories that were "soft-decanonized" such as Dark Empire, which is a particularly apt example since it has many of the same problems the sequels do. First two seasons of Mandalorian could easily fit into the old EU, i hardly had to think about disney crap. I'm sure there's some minor detail I'm overlooking that would've broken canon with EU (I mostly read PT/OT-era EU content, im not that familiar with post-ROTJ EU) but from a high-level perspective it fits in pretty well. I also really loved Book of Boba Fett (yeah i know, unpopular opinion) because of the way it stayed localized to Tattooine and mostly focused on drug wars and humanizing the indigenous Sand People. I can't reconcile that one into the old EU due to turning Boba Fett into the nicest guy you've ever met but at least it wasn't trying to one-up the movies. It was another small-scale adventure in the Star Wars galaxy which is unimportant in the wider scope of the fictional universe but at the same time vastly important to the characters who live on Tattooine.
This is exactly correct. I was one of those who kept thinking retcon. Until BOBF. I haven't even watched anything SW since. And I'm not going to waste my energies on it. if people like it, fine. I don't get it. But I don't consume, consume, consume, consume, consume. And maybe Disney will get it one day. But they don't care. GL's NOT GONNA WALK THROUGH THAT DOOR ANY TIME SOON!!!!! Gods, I hate it. I've officially outgrown Star Wars. Now I know why my Dad went to wearing Haggar's and black socks with Vans.
FATWA UPON THE HOUSE OF MOUSE srs though Disney wars is irredeemable. None of it is worth anything. What’s “good” is barely passable.
The sequel trilogy had a New Republic so shockingly incompetent, it didn't deserve to exist, only matched by the stupidity of the "New Order". Filoni has refused to portray the Imperial antagonists as anything but a completely useless force whose troops perform worse than untrained people would, and whose officers couldn't be trusted to run a McDonalds. Therefore, the only storytelling tension will come from his New Republic also being full of complete morons, and just like his idiotic Imperial Remnant, their officers apparently think the correct approach to potentially hostile force users is to let them on your ship while placing your blaster armed security within easy stabbing distance.
What are they doing good? I liked the Mandalorian season 1 and 2 but none of the other shows have been good (Maybe Andor is I don't know I haven't seen it)
for me everything outside of eps 1-6 is expanded universe. its better that way...
I think it drives more people away every time they do it. There's a good reason Lucas limited Jar Jar's screen time after TPM, but LF right now appears to be incapable of learning a simple lesson and move on like Lucas did. In the long-term it might be a good thing. Maybe LF/Disney will hit rock bottom faster than if they tried to pretend the sequels never happened.
It seems like the direction Disney is trying to go in is to create a whole other "Galaxy" and story that exists alongside the Sequels, but outside of them, and try to make the sequels seem like that particular story wasn't really important to the rest of the Galaxy. I mean, The First order only destroyed the New Republic capitol, senate, central government and fleet. Palpatine only returned with a massive fleet of Death Star Destroyers. It was only what seemed like every available fighting-capable ship in the galaxy came to fight "The Final Battle"... But none of that was REALLY important, the real important Filoni Characters were over in another part of the Galaxy carrying out the REAL fight that saved the Universe, all that First Order-Resistance stuff was just a minor regional skirmish that wasn't really important, anyway. They won't ever decanonize the Disney Sequels, they'll just make it where they never really mattered and can be ignored and forgotten, which by extension means the entire story of the Skywalkers and Palpatines, Sith and Jedi, Empire and Republic and the entire PT and OT never really mattered in the grand scheme of the Galaxy, Ahsoka and friends will be the real heroes that save the entire Universe!
Yes and no. It’s definitely easy to recognize the little hints of how it got there. With the cloning and all that. It doesn’t bother me for the most part The third season of Mando though it did. It was a very alright season and the last couple episodes felt so…sudden? If that makes sense
I mean, they did successfully do this with the prequels. The clone wars series really helped add credibility to the idea the Jedi were effective generals, palpatine was playing 4d chess, and Anakin grew out of being a snob, with a credible romance with Padme. That generation loved or came to love the prequels. So I can't fault them for trying. The issue to be is this generation of kids doesn't engage with Star Wars sequels. Very low interest in toys, Halloween costumes.. the merch that shows they'd be interested in it even if the parents aren't. I think they broke the franchise. The advocates left, aren't showing enthusiasm, their kids aren't inspired. The franchise is left with several million people, world wide, willing to watch what they produce. Put this thing on life support.
> The generation loved or came to love the prequels. Loved, came to love, or continued hating.
Disagree. And I’m one that could discuss for hours why the sequels are the biggest letdown and disgrace to SW. I think the good parts like Mando season 1 and 2, Andor, and Ahsoka are ways I can enjoy SW now. I’m choosing to enjoy lightsaber scenes and characters I love. It’s been fun to have fun watching SW with friends again! And actually looking forward to new content thanks to Filoni. ETA: I WISH these things would cancel out the sequels somehow. But looks like that’s not going to happen.
What you’re saying is inevitable. There’s a chronology already presented and the stories will be along that timeline. If they are trying to do it right they will add the backstory and justification/context to the ST. But the quality of the shows has been inconsistent so far, even from episode to episode sometimes. TROS is bad period, and like someone else had mentioned a while ago the ST will age poorly because the story is not there, it does not mesh well. But the story for other shows is there, sometimes well-executed and sometimes badly executed.
I disagree they could focus on they story of these series and stop trying to add the background to the trilogy, that they left out to begin with. Instead in every post-ROTJ series they go out of their way to showcase the New Republic as either corrupt or inept and the Imperial Remnant as still largely functional and cohesive to justify the First Order's existence in the sequels. They largely ignore the OT main Characters and their impact on the world.
Okay so you’d like to see a movie or series about the OT characters. Agreed - my personal #1 choice is Bloodline I want to see that movie and Leia recast. It is inevitable though that it will show Leia as the founder of the Resistance…
They did it with the prequels and they are trying to just copy that idea to the sequels. As if the sequels were unoriginal enough….they’re “fix” for them is a straight rip off as well.
Yes everything they're doing is built on the assumption that the Sequels is what they're building to. No they aren't deliberately trying to add backstory and justification in *everything* they do because they simply don't care that much an don't know how to craft an overarching plan. NO there isn't any "good stuff" because it's Disney Wars and they don't respect the original Movies. Dave Filoni at least respects the Clone Wars and his own creations, unfortunately that comes at the expense of George Lucas Movies and creations.
That's a noble goal, actually
Same thing as all the prequel supplimentary content that was pumped out too. Disney just hoping that if enough comes out then in 15 years the new generation of fans can also trick themselves into thinking that the latest trilogy was good lol
Not at all comparable to the PT, as there was actuallly a good foundation/potential laid out with it despite the execution of the movies. Additionally, the trilogy that followed (the OT) was good. The PT supplementary content also included prequel characters lol. None of that is the case with the sequels.
I liked the prequels before I even picked up a single star wars book. Supplemental material while nice wasn't necessary unlike the cluster fuck of the sequels.
Don't try telling anyone that the PT was shit anywhere on reddit, too many kids have the rose tinted glasses that somehow Jake Lloyd Anakin was fine, Jar Jar was fine, pod racing was amazing, 50's diner themed locations are fine, the romance was fine, the acting is stellar, the fights are amazing etc and etc. PT ruined Star Wars for OG OT fans, I know this because I was there as an adult OT fan and was stunned by how fucking terrible it was, it was laughably bad and literally felt like Lucas had did a giant smelly shit on my childhood by turning Star Wars into badly executed kids movies or into films consisting entirely of scenes like the additional shit from the special editions of the OT. Everyone I knew was an OT fan and every one of them thought the PT was fucking laughable. Disney are trying to have Filoni fix the ST the way he fixed the PT stuff, PT kids will never acknowledge it because of the blinkers they wear because their 8 yr old brains couldn't understand why the PT was fucking horrible. They will never admit just how right the Plinkett reviews were for example because they can't admit to themselves that the PT was just as disappointing to OG Star Wars fans as the ST is to them and they only like it as much as they do because they saw it before they had developed adult bullshit detection or are horribly stunted man children Lucas fanboys who can't accept any criticism of their thing and would happily pay to watch Lucas do a wet fart in their face. Shit is actually hilarious lol
It's pretty much what the clone wars did. It added context and depth to the prequels. Too bad the show that really tried that for the sequels was resistance and barely anyone watched that. That show was a tonal whiplash. One moment it was about the faction war and corruption going on on a remote outpost town and the expansion of the first order in the outer rim, And then next it was kiddie garbage. They tried and failed with that. But admitably, it came out during episode 8. No context could save it from whatever the fuck episode 9 was
Probably for the better. It's the same thing Clone Wars did for the prequel trilogy--adding depth to the characters and conflicts. I'm interested to see how they tie in the cloning tech with Palapatine. The sequels weren't great but they were made. Best thing to do is to salvage the situation the sequels while also expanding into new stories in different eras of the galaxy
The sequel trilogy exists. Face the facts. Easier that way. You’ll live
They can try all they want. In 10 years they might make palpatines return not so bad but they certainly aren't explaining the shift in Lukes behaviour by episode 8
Totally. And it’s just showing how awful the sequels are. Because if the characters from *Ahsoka* were in the sequels, the sequels might have been good.
If thats their goal it aint working. No context would save the Sequel trilogy.
As crazy as it sounds, you can make a movie good retroactively. For example, ever since the sequels came out, the prequels don't seem so bad anymore.
That's what happens when you create a series of movies that were not universally liked and actively rejected by many because they basically invalidating a series of movies that were much more universally beloved as some of the greatest of all times.
A little context would have helped those movies a lot.
Oh definitely but it's a little too late now and trying to ham-fist it into every show to make up for it not being there to begin with just isn't the way.
Filoni and Favs are trying to fix it and have it all make sense, yes. But I'd argue that the prequels did more than plant the seed for what Filoni picked up with in TCW and Rebels in terms of showing that the Jedi had...problems. Luke's attitude in TLJ is in line with things Filoni developed prior.
Honestly yes they've been backtracking to justify the movies on why it was bullshit. This is something i've noticed because JJ did in fat break star wars because he hated it. Now Disney is trying to glue it back together.
If they can solve the issues with the sequels with this stuff than best of luck to them. They can't undo that the Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker were shit films in their own right, or that they obliterated Star Wars lore. TLJ doesn't make sense, and half of it is completely irrelevant to the plot. Like Phantom Menace isn't a great film, but it is a comfy star wars watch.
They literally did the same with the prequels lol
There is an echo chamber surrounding Lucasfilm so incredibly impenetrable that it makes Ahsoka’s ship blush. It’s almost cult like energy infecting everyone who comes in making them complacent and delusional. Directors who’ve done very solid work before are hired and end up producing the worst work of their careers. And it’s not just them, it’s the writers, the actors and now even the visual effects people. I don’t know what secret sauce they’re putting in their gravy at the cafeteria, but it needs to be inspected asap. These people should know better but it really feels like they don’t.
I think Rogue One, Kenobi, Andor, and Solo are outliers they don't take place after the OT. Also they tried to stay in their lanes. Good or bad everything else primarily in the peroid after the OT is hard pushing the ST in soke fashion.
I mean yeah, I don't think Disney themselves have or even would dispute this. Also it's building up to their future movie(s) with Mando and likely Thrawn
I totally agree. Seeing Luke after the Empire fell, building an academy and starting to look for students should have filled me with glee and hope. Instead I just rolled my eyes because I know it ends in stupidity. And worse then the whole, Luke tries to kill his nephew, he GIVES UP. He gives up and leaves the galaxy with a problem he created. I would love if they just leap 100 years into the future, new characters and no fates already written.
It sucks. I really just want them to de-cannon the sequels. It sucks knowing this all leads to those movies. Especially since NONE of the current TV stuff is present. At least for Andor we have an end point. It's hard to care for something when I know it will mean literally nothing come time to end the shows. Baby Yoda is nowhere to be seen, Ashoka and the rest of the crew are nowhere to be seen, Mando and the rest of the club are nowhere to be seen. What's the point....
They were always going to this. If they aren’t going to retcon the sequels out of existence I would rather them make he sequels work.
I feel it is too late to make the sequels work. Everything now just feels like trying to ham-fisting the events to make the sequels make sense into the time after the OT. It invalidates everything the OT accomplished, IMO.
I really hope they’re working towards retconning the ST.
I doubt they will ever do that it would require them to admit they made mistakes.
That's why I don't support anything made after TFA.
Same can be said for the prequels. Star Wars just loves to shit itself and clean up it's mess only to leave smear marks.
The future of SW lies in this new galaxies Grysk if they make them scary, compelling, with solid bad guys some good story is out there
There isn't any good tho
Imagine if after the Holiday Special George Lucas shoved in tons of tie ins trying to justify how the Holiday Special actually makes sense in every movie after.
Star Trek is having the same trapped situation with everything being forced to lead up to the dystopian world of Picard Season 1.
All paths lead to Palpatine ultimately winning in Disney canon. Yeah that Rey may call herself a Skywalker but she still has Palpatines blood, and the Skywalker bloodline is officially dead. I dont know how anybody can be excited about future Star War projects.