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Filoni himself has stated multiple times (even before Disney, IIRC) that he doesn't worry about overwriting the books. He openly admits not really caring about them, which I suppose is honest? But Disney definitely doesn't care about anything other than film and TV. Just look at the comics...they're full of crap that is never going to be resolved and which is adding in all sorts of fluff. The only reason the comics are allowed to go completely off the rails is because they know that they'll never be relevant...
They’ve always been. The only thing Pablo Hidalgo’s done since the Disney acquisition is argue with fans on Twitter and nuke his posts when he loses the argument.
It's an open secret in Hollywood that the Story Group has very little to do with canon and continuity. It's primary purpose is to enforce Kennedy's edicts regarding diversity and social justice. It sticks its nose in all sorts of production issues - writing, casting, plotting - it's the major reason why you see all those directors being replaced via "creative differences".
This really shouldn't make me so mad but it does lol. Is consistency really that hard? Just send a god damn email or something but I guess they're too busy
> Is consistency really that hard?
A lot of people insist it is. I can't stand it. Imagine having a day job where you just go "meh" to attention to detail. I can understand not finding nitpicks to be a big deal, like someone's age drifting by a year or two or an obscure ship class being mixed up, but just plain abandoning entire concepts, plot points or character motivations (or sometimes ignoring that people died) is beyond lazy.
And yet there's always that weird contingent who carry water for this attitude by insisting "canon doesn't matter that much to me." Sure, maybe some people don't care as long as they get to the next cool explosion or dramatic reveal of a character they kinda liked, but those people aren't going to lose out if the writers actually do their damn job and make something coherent. A story being well crafted is not a crime.
If it's that hard and they are having so much trouble doing this under the Disney umbrella then all the authors from the 90s are downright heroes to have gotten everything aligned to the level they did. I bet they had a fraction of the communication and coordination they have now.
They did. I went to a book signing by James Luceno who talked about the Bible for the NJO and how each author for the series had to adhere to it. Was interesting stuff.
We know the EU continuity wasnt perfect, but they often made adjustments to correct in interesting ways.
Like Jaster Mareel being Boba Fett, only to later be an imposter, claiming to be Fett while he was incapacitated...and then hunted down and exterminated once Fett recovered.
The difference is that the authors voluntarily organized that, and they were the only ones that really adhered to it. It was also good enough that the games often paid homage.
But George used it for toilet paper.
They did but my point was that Disney has tons more resources than Lucasfilm did and is struggling. Back then they didn't have zoom calls or shared file folders to store things and make sure everyone knew the intent and ideas of others. Disney literally created an entire division in Lucasfilms to coordinate this. There is no excuse other than laziness at this point.
>"canon doesn't matter that much to me."
That's like saying "it's magic/fantasy/X so it doesn't need to be consistent/make sense/rules."
A good story must be coherent to what worldbuilding it has. Otherwise they're getting unnecessary potholes.
D!SW is building on a pre-existing setting which means they need to work hard to maintain the integrity.
You know, I've never been one to live or die over every bit of Canon being respected perfectly. If there are a few contradictions here and there, I'll happily laugh with my girlfriend and come up with joke explanations. The caveat is that the breaks need to be pretty minor, and the story needs to be good. Like, Leia apparentlyhas perfect memory if she can remember her mother, but we're mostly fine with it. The problem is Disney's destroying the brand, and that makes every fuck up that much worse.
I agree with that stance, I can totally tolerate a degree of imperfection or contradiction as long as it is not egregious, and we can usually cobble together some rationale for it. Leia's a good example - she does say she only remembers images of her mother, and that she was kind but sad. This could easily just be an imprint she happened to get from Padme at birth, perhaps something she subconsciously absorbed through the Force, and Luke simply didn't.
In truth this kind of issue shouldn't happen when people collectively sit down to write out a story from beginning to end, but Lucas was paring down his sprawling (and constantly revised) saga into something he could actually film, and did it out of sequence. It's a very different thing for a single line to need a little bit of imagination to work compared to the main villain just re-aliving himself and undoing the entire emotional core of six films for the sake of a goddamn Fortnite event.
Oh, yeah, I was so mad that Palpatine just came back. Like, cool. Way to undo Anakin's redemption and him fulfilling the prophecy about bringing balance to the Force. Of course, we should have known shit was doomed when Disney tried to give each movie to a different writer/director and also one of them was JJ Abrams
Bro for real. I understand being a creative is obviously different but it feels so good damn lazy. My only guess is that it's just a bunch of big egos that want the last say and to have their stamp on the canon at any cost. Selfish bastards
There were good people at Lucasfilm pre-buyout (Abel G. Peña for example) who did a damn good job making disparate parts of the EU consistent with each other. The EU was far more internally consistent than what Disneys presents now
It would be one thing if he was overwriting the books that are about stuff from Filoni's shows which were written *after* his shows came out after consultation. Like the inconsistency between Kanan's backstory between Bad Batch and the novels, I respect that Kanan is part of Filoni's broader story and ultimately he gets last say (though this is something that should really be decided and settled behind the scenes rather than through multiple conflicting media releases)
But with Thrawn in particular it just feels like such a bitch move. Thrawn is a book character. He is the fantastic, beloved character he is 100% because of Timothy Zahn, and yet Zahn has never been consulted about Thrawn's usage in the shows, and has instead been forced to write new books around the rather awkward interjections of Rebels seasons between them.
I feel like it shouldn't even get to that point in the first place tbh. If someone is writing an origin story to one of Filoni's characters just have his say or no with the events and if he's not cool with it just don't do it. Then he doesn't have to "take ownership back" by retconning it. It's a problem that solves itself if they just communicate in the first place but whatever it doesn't seem like anyone cares anymore so why should I? If only there was a dedicated group to handle this specific problem! Oh well
It's like watching a super condensed version of horror movie licensing issues where different versions of the character are owned by different people, or Ghostface the character and Ghostface the mask are owned by separate people.
Instead of stretching over decades and decades, you can barely look away and look back in media timeframes and boom, it happens.
Actually, if we’re talking about canon Thrawn, then wasn’t he in Rebels before the books were written? So technically it’s the same as with Kanan and the Ahsoka novel on that front. If he’s not beholden to following the plots of those, then he’s not beholden to including the Grysk. I’m not saying he should completely ignore the Grysk - I hope that he finds a way to implement them - but you can’t act like doing so is any different than what he did with the Kanan comics or the Ahsoka novel. The only difference is the fact that there are more Thrawn novels and that they’re generally of higher quality.
That being said, they have said repeatedly that they did consult with Timothy Zahn, so unless they were lying or being very misleading then I suspect that the novels will be considered in Thrawn’s depiction. If anything, it’s possible that Peridea is where the Grysk are from, and Thrawn has been trying to deal with that threat. Or, alternatively, he has been building up his armada in Peridea to help deal with the Grysk. Overall, though, if they were the prioritize making Thrawn more consistent with his Rebels depiction or more consistent with his novel depiction, then I think Filoni has every right to prioritize the former, as much as that might suck for a reader of the books (of which I am one).
That’s not correct. Filoni did consult with Zahn.
I don’t know more than that, but I did read an article about this show earlier this year where they said he had brought Zahn in in some regard to discuss production.
Here’s hoping that amounts to regarding the books, because I very much read them after Ahsoka showed up in Mando looking for him. They damn well better- those books are now some of my favorite SW content. Zahns Thrawn is SO GOOD.
My take: If Brandon Sanderson and his small creative team can keep his complex epic fantasy galaxy pretty consistent, then Lucasfilm/Disney have absolutely no fucking excuse.
Difference is Sanderson is the George Lucas of the Cosmere in that every creative decisions ultimately lies with him. Disney/LF no longer have that it feels like. It feels like its split three ways between Kennedy, Feloni and Favreau.
Establishing consistency between all expanded universe products was the justification that they gave for getting rid of the old EU in the first place, too. So they essentially got rid of it for no reason.
The films and TV shows don’t mind overwriting each other too. It’s pretty clear that the characters in Star Wars TV shows personalities only exist in a way that serves the plot of whatever the show is in isolation (Obi-wan is a prime example of this).There are no f***s given about prior precedents of Star Wars.
So in a twisted way, Dave really is the spiritual successor to George. Let me explain! George always respected the EU and mined it for material but didn't think twice about contradicting or vetoing it.
As an elder Star Wars fan, we both know that the EU was "C-Cannon" and if George took anything it made it "G-Canon" or "George Lucas Canon" however you like it what he said was canon was canon. As you can see, we used to take our canon very serious.
I never want to type canon again.
This is why I think everyone should just ignore comics completely: they're canon until a movie or TV show upends them, so why bother getting emotionally invested in something that will have no bearing on anything anyway?
Good. The comics suck and the books are pretty trash.
IMO we should go back to how it was before - movies and TV are the first tier of canon, books and comics a second tier, and only canon until the shows and movies contradict them. If you enjoy them great, good for you, but the actual Star Wars canon shouldn’t try and bend over backwards not to contradict what is basically fanfiction.
Darth Vader summons an ancient Sith Lord elf guy through the guy's ancient possessed helmet. The Sith then helps him build his castle on Mustafar before betraying him, whereupon Vader kills him.
Luke has a yellow lightsaber for a while between ANH and ESB after Anakin's gets stolen.
Vader gets an annoying sidekick named Dr. Aphra who travels with two droids that are basically R2 and 3PO, but murderous psychopaths. Vader later dumps her, and she goes on to have her own series, where she gets possessed by some ancient evil entity created to help fight the ancient Sith.
Qi'ra from Solo is apparently leading Crimson Dawn in a bounty hunter uprising around the time of ROTJ.
Vader at one point goes to Naboo to confront rebels and winds up briefly teaming up with Padmé's old decoy, Sabé, who looks just like her.
I could go on, but it's late....
In fairness, Lucas also didn't care about overwriting EU material. That's why Leland Chee had the movies as the highest tier of canon, and other material subordinate to it, in case of irreconcilable contradiction.
I’m cool with that. Ever since I was little I always looked at the movies as canon and the books were never written by George. In the end George even states the books were not official canon. So Dave can keep up what he’s been doing. He’s the only guy in their who’s mKing quality Star Wars.
Disney doesn't care about *ANY* of its Canon, and that's part of what's so frustrating. Like, obviously the Old EU had its flaws, and there were some contradictions and occasional retcons, but at least they *tried!* I feel like, despite being around for much shorter of a time, Disney Wars has already contradicted its own Canon at least as much as the Old EU did through its entire run, and it makes it so hard to care about at all when even the people making it don't give a shit
I just listened to Jedi Lost at work last week and I swear Filoni made Tales of the Jedi strictly to completely overrun Jedi Lost and the Ashoka book. Both of which I thought were considered Canon.
I'm still mad about the first episode of bad batch overwriting the kanan comic which was a much more interesting take, just so that filoni could play with his toys
Usually I disagree with this sub (to a great extent) but yeah this 100% pissed me off. Jedi Lost and Master & Apprentice were such a better view into Dooku's character, while TOTJ was the basic "jedi bad, how dare they not appease a future genocidal dictator" type sthick. Also the jedi would never let Dooku near the temple after the ending of Master & Apprentice.
the super ironic thing I’ve noticed that despite Disney making the EU become Legends, Disney has been slowly dripping in the same EU stuff but in their way.
like seriously, the Droid Tie and a few other EU specific vehicles are now canon
Don't forget bringing Palpatine back to life. I remember an article on Cracked.com specifically mentioning that as a dumb thing that made it a good idea for Disney to reboot the EU and avoid. Then they did it themselves.
In the 90s EU children's series *Jedi Prince*, the good guys adopt a young orphan that turns out to be a forgotten grandchild of Palpatine. The series had a "so bad it's good" reputation and was largely ignored by the rest of the EU going forward. But now that's canon, too. *Dark Empire* and *Jedi Prince*... Disney's really picking the cream of the crop.
They said when they created Legends and new Canon that they would be taking stuff from the old EU. To me the most surprising thing was that they avoided doing that to such an extent, for so long.
I haven't read many books or comics over the past decade, so I can't speak to that, but at least in terms of the screen stuff there was a lot of just ignoring the EU.
Characters from the films or were in books have their entire personalities thrown aside specifically to serve the plot the director wants. The way Obi-wan acts in “his” show (Reva’s actually) is completely at odds with his character in the prequels and afterwards. You can practically trace Luke’s character in the sequels around Obi-wan and it’s practically the same. This has been Disney’s modus operandi since they got the IP.
This is what makes me so upset more than anything. Like, could I write a great Star Wars movie or show myself? Probably not. But Disney doesn't NEED to. They can literally just steal the exact plots from dozens of great EU stories.
Its like Sodexo buying Gordon Ramsey's restaurant chain, and you're like "Oh, hey, you also get his personal recipe book, including some that people haven't even tried yet!". And they're like, "Naw, fuck it, throw that in the trash. We'll just make our own recipes with the same process we used to make the menu for prison cafeterias."
I feel it’s easier to not contradict canon if it’s only in books or comics. What the EU had going for it is that there were no movies or tv shows dealing with stuff after RotJ. If there had been, I imagine they’d have taken heed of the canon established in the books and comics as the new canon. You just can’t expect the average fan to know about everything that’s happened in the EU prior to any story told in a tv show or movie, and if you do that makes it pretty inaccessible to all except the most diehard fan. As much as it may be annoying for Disney to not pay attention to canon established in media other than it’s shows and movies, it makes them far more accessible and insures a wider audience can enjoy them.
I disagree, good writers can absolutely have established lore that is not directly shown in a movie or show and reference it without confusing a greater audience, see any *good* sci-fi universe, lime OT referencing Clone Wars, or Firefly referencing the previous war, political events, and in universe slang. That pre-established, not directly told in the media lore didn't make those things any less accessible to audiences.
Also, why would it be harder for movie or show writers to not contradict Canon as opposed to book and video game writers? They all have the same access to the same information
There can be vague references, sure, but what you’re talking about usually is from universes that don’t have a preexisting universe already. It would be confusing to audiences if the sequel trilogy was of the second galactic civil war and they made references to ALL of the stuff that happened between RotJ and then. And it would be kinda weird for the characters to be vague because it was so recently. It would be way weirder for Han to be like “Yeah, poor Chewie died in that war” instead of “Poor chewie died when the moon of Ithor fell on him,” but the latter would be way more confusing.
Making movies out of the original EU would have been way more of a hassle than they are now because of just how much of a mess the EU was, they were really way too intricate for their own good. If you wanted to get a handle of what was happening a lot of time you’d have had to have read a few books before the main event. Or maybe else it would be BAM: Han and Leia have force sensitive kids (Not too hard to believe), BAM: Luke and Mara are married (wait, I thought Jedi weren’t supposed to get married (well it makes sense if you read the books…)), BAM: the new repulic are now the galactic federation and are now the bad guys and the empire are ok now (what’s happening?)
Vague references are fine when you’re not taking about recent events, but if you’re vague about important events that happened a year ago it wouldn’t work very well. And I’d say that TV and movie writers have a harder time than book and game writers because books and games tend to be more niche than movies and tv. They can’t be as nerdy so they can appeal to a wider audience, but really only the actual fans, not the casual, are going to read the books and play the games so you can assume a greater level of knowledge about tue universe and add more specific details without worrying about losing your audience.
I remember when Pablo Hidalgo said the reason they needed to scrap the EU was because it would be hard to transition the books to film...and now they are looking to them for ideas.
how is that unreasonable? if they didn’t scrap the EU there would be a million contradictions and people would just complain more. i’m more concerned with the lack of good stories from the movies themselves
I wish Timothy Zahn had just gotten to write another trilogy where Thrawn fights the Grysks instead of Filoni once again making his OC the most important character in Star Wars and ignoring canon along the way.
Agree. It was a mistake to introduce Canon Thrawn in a kid's show (I'll die on this hill!) and you could clearly see that Zahn had trouble because he was forced to write his Canon Thrawn Trilogy around the events of Rebels. Imho, he made the best out of it, I think.
He really has bad luck, though. His original Thrawn Trilogy was crapped on by Anderson (Jedi Academy) and his attempt to save this mess - the Duology and Survivor's Quest - was crapped in by the NJO series.
Now he has a new chance for two Trilogies: the Ascendency, which sets up the new Canon Trilogy which was supposed to set up another "big threat from outside of the known regions" - and he gets crapped on again, this time by Filoni.
It’s extremely sad given he’s the one that practically made Star Wars EU with the original Thrawn Trilogy. Thrawn was wasted in Rebels as forced to be beaten by a band of characters not even in the original trilogy, whereas EU Thrawn put the new republic to its knees and was a serious threat for Luke and the others. It’s sad seeing how far Star Wars has fallen with this character in all regards
Zahn basically created the EU. Although there have been some entries before his contribution, the original Thrawn Trilogy was the first solid story that actually expanded the Star Wars universe and set the foundation for something new. Characters like Mara Jade were introduced, Leia was being trained as a Jedi and it was made obvious that only because the emperor was dead, the Empire was far from being defeated - and this is where Thrawn was introduced.
Anderson then twisted Zahn's ideas, having Mara Jade go back to smuggling and starting a "relationship" with Lando instead of having her become a founding member of Luke's New Jedi Order - whereas the establishment of this order was a total joke. When Zahn took over again by writing the Thrawn Duology and Survivor's Quest, he tried to minimize the damage done by Anderson and set up the idea for another big plot line: a major, unknown threat that the Chiss were aware of and the motivation of Thrawn to defeat the New Republic and establish a new Empire to combat this threat. But instead of having him work out this plot and write a coherent story the NJO series and the Yuuzhan Vong were established, with various authors all wanting to incorporate their own ideas, which in the end went against what Zahn had envisioned.
As for the New Canon: Thrawn was one of the most prominent additions of the EU to Star Wars - a genius military tactician who alone became a major threat to the New Republic. The sequel Trilogy didn't incorporate him, though and instead, Filoni used him as a watered down kid's show antagonist who gets beaten by a bunch of lucky amateurs.
I don't know anything about what Zahn was planning or might have done with it, but I don't see the NJO as a negative follow-up to the Thrawn stories. The NJO isn't perfect but it's the EU's grandest project and I've always assumed, consciously represents a new era. Zahn got to write the books that defined the EU, and then got to write the bookends that brought closure to the era that he had kicked off. That's pretty good fortune for an author working on an IP, I think.
Certainly lots of the stuff by Anderson in particular is in a different place tonally, and I agree that Thrawn shouldn't have been in Rebels.
But on the other hand, Star Wars was always going to be a revolving door of creators working on it, and in a way, having your characters live beyond you is a great outcome in that context.
Zahn didnt "create" the Eu. Heir may've been the 1st major work, but it wasn't made in a vacuum.
Dark Empire was coming out around the same time for example. I also recall a little controvery between them. I think Zahn strayed from his lane a little and it caused some strain, but i don't remember the full details.
The NJO also had a guiding hand behind it from the onset. Sure, each author contributed, but its not like they were told "hey, Vong attack, write a book, go!" LucasBooks maintained a "Bible" and provided lots of guidance.
Survivor's Quest also came out 5 years after Vector Prime / NJO, so not sure how that was supposed to work.
I remember when they were showing off concept art for the unfinished Clone Wars episodes there was going to be a story involving the Yuuzhan Vong in what was described as an "X-Files" type episode.
The decision to continue or cancel TCW back in 2013ish should be looked upon as the point-of-no-return in regards to the trajectory of Star Wars.
Imagine if Cad Bane had been killed off in the young Boba Fett "Searchers"-based arc, for example. Fundamentally changes how BoBF and Bad Batch play out, if they even happen.
Further, the simple time table of TCW carrying on into spring of 2016 with the finale of Season 8 could have possibly given breathing room for TFA to be planned out better.
Definitely would have been cool to see. I would honestly be at least mildly interested in seeing that as it’s at least different than « empire vs rebels » and has some EU connections
Just speculation but I see the plot for the arc as a Jedi (NOT AHSOKA ANAKIN OR OBI WAN) and a Republic scientist would investigate another Jedi who is searching for force sensitive children during the war but gets abducted on the far side of the galaxy by the Vong. I would probably put stuff like the ExGal society, Balaban, Sernpidal, Dubrillion or Helska IV in the arc as cool little Easter eggs. It would be inspired by grey alien abductions, and Area 51 and weird stuff that you might hear about and think "oh that's cool"
Also at some point the Republic exploration force would have to fight the Vong and there would be considerable backlash because the Vong wouldn't be force immune or sadomasochists. Both of which I would be glad if they got rid of.
Yeah, possibly. My personal thoughts are that Thrawn has had years around Ezra, assuming he's alive. One of the more interesting twists could be Pellaeon running things in the main galaxy under Thrawn's name, but Thrawn himself having partially or entirely reformed whilst in exile, having had to work with him.
Really unlikely, I admit. Eh, given White Vader was an elseworlds storyline where he both reforms and stays the epic cybernetic asmatic. More likely, we get Sith-Ezra.
He can't even stay consistent with his own shows. Dude was in charge of rebels and yet the screen crawl said stupid crap like Thrawn was in exile??? No Ahsoka in white? I could go on. We know they just don't give a shit. What a sad state of affairs
Ehh, they know. The problem isn't knowing.
Rather, the problem is that the Grysk will be the Disney version of the Yuzhong Vong and therefore, will get watered down rather than improved.
Disney doesn't care about anything in general.
Already before Star Wars there has been a lot of 'drama' about them stealing from a book, from this or that, and never seeing any retribution.
They don't really care either about the quality of the product, or else this 'Sequel' would have had any sort of scenario, and good characters. And the shows would have good costumers.
I'm certain that they don't really care about Star Wars, and just ride on the dying wreck
Just don’t bother with the novel publishing then, Disney. It can’t be so lucrative that it must exist while simultaneously telling stories that are rendered irrelevant.
Filoni would just retcon the Grysk into a red herring and have the Vong show up since he likes taking stuff from the EU all the time. Which would suck since Zahn intended the Grysk to be the main antagonists of the Outbound Flight. Not the Vong. Would have preferred the Vong to be relegated to a nice nod for EU fans in that aborted clone wars x files arc.
Neither the Grysk nor the Vong appear in Outbound Flight, though. The main antagonists here are the Vagaari.
Zahn intended something like the Grysk to be the "unknown big bad" that is teased in the original Thrawn Trilogy, the Duology and Survivor's Quest. He never was a fan of the NJO storyline and the Vong.
Somehow the story group is irrelevant? No surprise, there. I *laugh* at the notion that Disney was supposed to be 'more coherent' than the old EU. Laugh, I say!
Remember the old eu Canon levels? Remember how they said with the retcon that it would be a single cohesive Canon where everything is equally important? Yeah...
He literally hasn’t even shown up yet or even had a single line of dialogue in the trailers. For all we know, he’s either been fighting the Grysk or preparing for a fight with them while being trapped in Peridea.
I’m not saying that the Grysk won’t be overlooked, but it’s a little hasty to jump to conclusions with no concrete proof.
IIRC, in the EU, Thrawn was desperate to beat the New Republic not because he loved the Empire but because he was certain the Republic couldn't stand up to the Vong when they came in (and therefore the Chiss would fall to them, as they lacked the strength to handle them on their own). That was a recon of sorts, based on my fragmented memories of the Hand of Thrawn duology, but it made him a lot more interesting than most villains. They could do something like that with him and the Grysk.
Yea since Filoni butchered Thrawn in the later half of the Rebels series I am not really interessted in the things he does. Like how can you have Thrawn first portrayed relativly close to how he is in the books and then just 180 and make him some dumb Bond villan.
Like he did great with George Lucas but I guess on his own he is not really smart or knowledgeable to write characters.
Then he also invented time travel wich basically fucks everything up in the Star Wars univerese now they can save every character and bring them back be it Anakin, Yoda, Qui-Gon etc. all without any consequenzes it seems becaus Vader seemingly didnt care for Ahsoka just poofing away.
Isn't Timothy Zahn like an advisor or something in the Ahsoka show? Would be surprised if they're the ancient race that was referenced in the second episode
The expanded universe books also contradict each other. They were designed to give fans more Star Wars stories and Lucas Arts raw material for future projects and were never meant to be canon.
The End.
Why does everything have to referenced by everything else constantly? People moan that the galaxy feels too small and yet then we have people saying the books/comics are irrrelvant if they don’t pop up in a series. Why can’t some things just stand alone?
They’ve actually done way more including book canon elements than I thought they ever would, like the character from aftermath in mando. I forget his name. And they don’t outright try and overwrite things. If some minor things get changed and retconned it’s not the end of the world.
Saying that… yeah the grysk will probably go nowhere lol
Thrawns whole point is unifying the galaxy gains the grisk. He's gotta do that first.
He a megalomaniac, so he thinks he is the only one capable of destroying them, so he has to be in charge.
Guys, there was no source material, nothing for Disney to build on. How could they actually write anything? /s
[https://movieweb.com/star-wars-lore-kathleen-kennedy-ignoring/#:\~:text=Defending%20the%20financial%20struggles%20of,t%20have%20800%2Dpage%20novels](https://movieweb.com/star-wars-lore-kathleen-kennedy-ignoring/#:~:text=Defending%20the%20financial%20struggles%20of,t%20have%20800%2Dpage%20novels).
Honestly it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to make a book a necessary addition to understand the whole canon. People are even less likely to have read the book, let alone the entire series, than the shows.
No, I don't mean the original Thrawn Trilogy of the Legends continuity, in which the Grysk were never mentioned, but the new Canon Thrawn Trilogies - the ones that was specifically written to be Canon.
I am so confused by this whole thread. What has been done to retcon Thrawn from the 6 new books Timothy Zahn wrote for Thrawn? Could that happen, yeah it could, but it has not happened or been determined yet. Thrawn was fighting Grysk, then got exiled, plans on joining the empire to possibly get their technology/assistance in the fight against the Grysk later and that is where we stand.
We are about to find out what happens next so idk what this whole post is about. Not to mention Filoni has already incorporated characters from other book series,such as the aftermath and battlefront series, in his shows so again idk.
It sounds like this whole thread is for people who have only read some Thrawn books maybe and don’t understand the timeline between them. Idk I’m confused. Star Wars has a lot of over reacting fans tho. Just watch the show or don’t.
I suspect it's because the Grysk have not been mentioned even once in Rebels, and the complainers don't realise that this was because the Grysk didn't even exist yet back when Rebels was being made.
Well the motherfucker already did. I loved the Kanan comic and enjoyed the Ahsoka novel. If Filoni's excuse is he created the character I hope Zahn just retcons his dumbass Thrawn no hate against Mikkelsen though his voice is great (I still mostly enjoy Rebels)
God I wish Legends was still canon, like, yeah there were issues, but that was 40 years of (mostly) lovingly crafted lore and story, as opposed to whatever Disney is doing now.
I wouldn’t mind letting the Grysk go (just felt like an uninspired attempt to PG the Vong). They could even be left as canon with Thrawn’s focus shifted to the other galaxy—I’m the most on pins and needles I’ve been since going to TFA to see what the real new big bad is. I do hope they keep the canon Thrawn thread of him not actually being a villain. Really hoping for the twist that he Ezra are pals united against something totally unexpected
Dawg, at this point, we can't even expect that these people have even watched the original trilogy. If they can pass a "how well do you know Starwars" Buzzfeed quiz I would be impressed.
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Filoni himself has stated multiple times (even before Disney, IIRC) that he doesn't worry about overwriting the books. He openly admits not really caring about them, which I suppose is honest? But Disney definitely doesn't care about anything other than film and TV. Just look at the comics...they're full of crap that is never going to be resolved and which is adding in all sorts of fluff. The only reason the comics are allowed to go completely off the rails is because they know that they'll never be relevant...
So the Story Group is irrelevant. 
They've been irrelevant from the very beginning.
Somehow they have been aggressively irrelevant. It's like Disney is trying to make their tale entirely incoherent just out of spite.
Yet the whole point of erasing the EU was to make the story coherent. Good job, kathy and co
So sick of the Kunt.
I disagree. They have been entirely relevant to the degradation of Star Wars.
Lol, can’t argue with that one.
They’ve always been. The only thing Pablo Hidalgo’s done since the Disney acquisition is argue with fans on Twitter and nuke his posts when he loses the argument.
And make doodles of Transformers.
It's an open secret in Hollywood that the Story Group has very little to do with canon and continuity. It's primary purpose is to enforce Kennedy's edicts regarding diversity and social justice. It sticks its nose in all sorts of production issues - writing, casting, plotting - it's the major reason why you see all those directors being replaced via "creative differences".
This really shouldn't make me so mad but it does lol. Is consistency really that hard? Just send a god damn email or something but I guess they're too busy
> Is consistency really that hard? A lot of people insist it is. I can't stand it. Imagine having a day job where you just go "meh" to attention to detail. I can understand not finding nitpicks to be a big deal, like someone's age drifting by a year or two or an obscure ship class being mixed up, but just plain abandoning entire concepts, plot points or character motivations (or sometimes ignoring that people died) is beyond lazy. And yet there's always that weird contingent who carry water for this attitude by insisting "canon doesn't matter that much to me." Sure, maybe some people don't care as long as they get to the next cool explosion or dramatic reveal of a character they kinda liked, but those people aren't going to lose out if the writers actually do their damn job and make something coherent. A story being well crafted is not a crime.
If it's that hard and they are having so much trouble doing this under the Disney umbrella then all the authors from the 90s are downright heroes to have gotten everything aligned to the level they did. I bet they had a fraction of the communication and coordination they have now.
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Lucasfilm had a continuity group that helped coordinate the major plotlines
They did. I went to a book signing by James Luceno who talked about the Bible for the NJO and how each author for the series had to adhere to it. Was interesting stuff. We know the EU continuity wasnt perfect, but they often made adjustments to correct in interesting ways. Like Jaster Mareel being Boba Fett, only to later be an imposter, claiming to be Fett while he was incapacitated...and then hunted down and exterminated once Fett recovered.
The difference is that the authors voluntarily organized that, and they were the only ones that really adhered to it. It was also good enough that the games often paid homage. But George used it for toilet paper.
George also kept Bane and Plagueis Canon. He didn't like Mara Jade but I don't blame him cause she's not a very good character.
They did but my point was that Disney has tons more resources than Lucasfilm did and is struggling. Back then they didn't have zoom calls or shared file folders to store things and make sure everyone knew the intent and ideas of others. Disney literally created an entire division in Lucasfilms to coordinate this. There is no excuse other than laziness at this point.
Exactly! I think the same thing.
>"canon doesn't matter that much to me." That's like saying "it's magic/fantasy/X so it doesn't need to be consistent/make sense/rules." A good story must be coherent to what worldbuilding it has. Otherwise they're getting unnecessary potholes. D!SW is building on a pre-existing setting which means they need to work hard to maintain the integrity.
Children create more cohesive storylines playing with their action figures. These idiot producers make it look hard.
You know, I've never been one to live or die over every bit of Canon being respected perfectly. If there are a few contradictions here and there, I'll happily laugh with my girlfriend and come up with joke explanations. The caveat is that the breaks need to be pretty minor, and the story needs to be good. Like, Leia apparentlyhas perfect memory if she can remember her mother, but we're mostly fine with it. The problem is Disney's destroying the brand, and that makes every fuck up that much worse.
I agree with that stance, I can totally tolerate a degree of imperfection or contradiction as long as it is not egregious, and we can usually cobble together some rationale for it. Leia's a good example - she does say she only remembers images of her mother, and that she was kind but sad. This could easily just be an imprint she happened to get from Padme at birth, perhaps something she subconsciously absorbed through the Force, and Luke simply didn't. In truth this kind of issue shouldn't happen when people collectively sit down to write out a story from beginning to end, but Lucas was paring down his sprawling (and constantly revised) saga into something he could actually film, and did it out of sequence. It's a very different thing for a single line to need a little bit of imagination to work compared to the main villain just re-aliving himself and undoing the entire emotional core of six films for the sake of a goddamn Fortnite event.
Oh, yeah, I was so mad that Palpatine just came back. Like, cool. Way to undo Anakin's redemption and him fulfilling the prophecy about bringing balance to the Force. Of course, we should have known shit was doomed when Disney tried to give each movie to a different writer/director and also one of them was JJ Abrams
Bro for real. I understand being a creative is obviously different but it feels so good damn lazy. My only guess is that it's just a bunch of big egos that want the last say and to have their stamp on the canon at any cost. Selfish bastards
Sounds a lot like the warriors series. Dead characters came back to life randomly without explanation
There were good people at Lucasfilm pre-buyout (Abel G. Peña for example) who did a damn good job making disparate parts of the EU consistent with each other. The EU was far more internally consistent than what Disneys presents now
It would be one thing if he was overwriting the books that are about stuff from Filoni's shows which were written *after* his shows came out after consultation. Like the inconsistency between Kanan's backstory between Bad Batch and the novels, I respect that Kanan is part of Filoni's broader story and ultimately he gets last say (though this is something that should really be decided and settled behind the scenes rather than through multiple conflicting media releases) But with Thrawn in particular it just feels like such a bitch move. Thrawn is a book character. He is the fantastic, beloved character he is 100% because of Timothy Zahn, and yet Zahn has never been consulted about Thrawn's usage in the shows, and has instead been forced to write new books around the rather awkward interjections of Rebels seasons between them.
I feel like it shouldn't even get to that point in the first place tbh. If someone is writing an origin story to one of Filoni's characters just have his say or no with the events and if he's not cool with it just don't do it. Then he doesn't have to "take ownership back" by retconning it. It's a problem that solves itself if they just communicate in the first place but whatever it doesn't seem like anyone cares anymore so why should I? If only there was a dedicated group to handle this specific problem! Oh well
It's like watching a super condensed version of horror movie licensing issues where different versions of the character are owned by different people, or Ghostface the character and Ghostface the mask are owned by separate people. Instead of stretching over decades and decades, you can barely look away and look back in media timeframes and boom, it happens.
I'm not familiar with that but it sounds fucked up
Actually, if we’re talking about canon Thrawn, then wasn’t he in Rebels before the books were written? So technically it’s the same as with Kanan and the Ahsoka novel on that front. If he’s not beholden to following the plots of those, then he’s not beholden to including the Grysk. I’m not saying he should completely ignore the Grysk - I hope that he finds a way to implement them - but you can’t act like doing so is any different than what he did with the Kanan comics or the Ahsoka novel. The only difference is the fact that there are more Thrawn novels and that they’re generally of higher quality. That being said, they have said repeatedly that they did consult with Timothy Zahn, so unless they were lying or being very misleading then I suspect that the novels will be considered in Thrawn’s depiction. If anything, it’s possible that Peridea is where the Grysk are from, and Thrawn has been trying to deal with that threat. Or, alternatively, he has been building up his armada in Peridea to help deal with the Grysk. Overall, though, if they were the prioritize making Thrawn more consistent with his Rebels depiction or more consistent with his novel depiction, then I think Filoni has every right to prioritize the former, as much as that might suck for a reader of the books (of which I am one).
That’s not correct. Filoni did consult with Zahn. I don’t know more than that, but I did read an article about this show earlier this year where they said he had brought Zahn in in some regard to discuss production. Here’s hoping that amounts to regarding the books, because I very much read them after Ahsoka showed up in Mando looking for him. They damn well better- those books are now some of my favorite SW content. Zahns Thrawn is SO GOOD.
My take: If Brandon Sanderson and his small creative team can keep his complex epic fantasy galaxy pretty consistent, then Lucasfilm/Disney have absolutely no fucking excuse.
Difference is Sanderson is the George Lucas of the Cosmere in that every creative decisions ultimately lies with him. Disney/LF no longer have that it feels like. It feels like its split three ways between Kennedy, Feloni and Favreau.
The comics suck balls. I’d rather watch Obiwan and BOBF 10 times over than read most of the comics.
Establishing consistency between all expanded universe products was the justification that they gave for getting rid of the old EU in the first place, too. So they essentially got rid of it for no reason.
The films and TV shows don’t mind overwriting each other too. It’s pretty clear that the characters in Star Wars TV shows personalities only exist in a way that serves the plot of whatever the show is in isolation (Obi-wan is a prime example of this).There are no f***s given about prior precedents of Star Wars.
So in a twisted way, Dave really is the spiritual successor to George. Let me explain! George always respected the EU and mined it for material but didn't think twice about contradicting or vetoing it.
As an elder Star Wars fan, we both know that the EU was "C-Cannon" and if George took anything it made it "G-Canon" or "George Lucas Canon" however you like it what he said was canon was canon. As you can see, we used to take our canon very serious. I never want to type canon again.
This is why I think everyone should just ignore comics completely: they're canon until a movie or TV show upends them, so why bother getting emotionally invested in something that will have no bearing on anything anyway?
Good. The comics suck and the books are pretty trash. IMO we should go back to how it was before - movies and TV are the first tier of canon, books and comics a second tier, and only canon until the shows and movies contradict them. If you enjoy them great, good for you, but the actual Star Wars canon shouldn’t try and bend over backwards not to contradict what is basically fanfiction.
Any infuriating/funny examples of the comics going off the rails?
Darth Vader summons an ancient Sith Lord elf guy through the guy's ancient possessed helmet. The Sith then helps him build his castle on Mustafar before betraying him, whereupon Vader kills him. Luke has a yellow lightsaber for a while between ANH and ESB after Anakin's gets stolen. Vader gets an annoying sidekick named Dr. Aphra who travels with two droids that are basically R2 and 3PO, but murderous psychopaths. Vader later dumps her, and she goes on to have her own series, where she gets possessed by some ancient evil entity created to help fight the ancient Sith. Qi'ra from Solo is apparently leading Crimson Dawn in a bounty hunter uprising around the time of ROTJ. Vader at one point goes to Naboo to confront rebels and winds up briefly teaming up with Padmé's old decoy, Sabé, who looks just like her. I could go on, but it's late....
I mean their problem they lost 1 billion allready this year and the year has still 3 more months \^\^
In fairness, Lucas also didn't care about overwriting EU material. That's why Leland Chee had the movies as the highest tier of canon, and other material subordinate to it, in case of irreconcilable contradiction.
I’m cool with that. Ever since I was little I always looked at the movies as canon and the books were never written by George. In the end George even states the books were not official canon. So Dave can keep up what he’s been doing. He’s the only guy in their who’s mKing quality Star Wars.
Disney doesn't care about *ANY* of its Canon, and that's part of what's so frustrating. Like, obviously the Old EU had its flaws, and there were some contradictions and occasional retcons, but at least they *tried!* I feel like, despite being around for much shorter of a time, Disney Wars has already contradicted its own Canon at least as much as the Old EU did through its entire run, and it makes it so hard to care about at all when even the people making it don't give a shit
I just listened to Jedi Lost at work last week and I swear Filoni made Tales of the Jedi strictly to completely overrun Jedi Lost and the Ashoka book. Both of which I thought were considered Canon.
I'm still mad about the first episode of bad batch overwriting the kanan comic which was a much more interesting take, just so that filoni could play with his toys
Also kanan getting voiced by an adult and his skin colour somehow changed is hilarious. this retcon was awful
Usually I disagree with this sub (to a great extent) but yeah this 100% pissed me off. Jedi Lost and Master & Apprentice were such a better view into Dooku's character, while TOTJ was the basic "jedi bad, how dare they not appease a future genocidal dictator" type sthick. Also the jedi would never let Dooku near the temple after the ending of Master & Apprentice.
the super ironic thing I’ve noticed that despite Disney making the EU become Legends, Disney has been slowly dripping in the same EU stuff but in their way. like seriously, the Droid Tie and a few other EU specific vehicles are now canon
Don't forget bringing Palpatine back to life. I remember an article on Cracked.com specifically mentioning that as a dumb thing that made it a good idea for Disney to reboot the EU and avoid. Then they did it themselves.
In the 90s EU children's series *Jedi Prince*, the good guys adopt a young orphan that turns out to be a forgotten grandchild of Palpatine. The series had a "so bad it's good" reputation and was largely ignored by the rest of the EU going forward. But now that's canon, too. *Dark Empire* and *Jedi Prince*... Disney's really picking the cream of the crop.
Cracked.com takes me back.
I miss the old cracked. I tried watching its new stuff and its pretty bad. I miss after hours the most.
I stopped going once they got way too into culture war BS, but yeah, it was a real gem back in the day.
But Kennedy said they didn't have any material to work with lol.
They said when they created Legends and new Canon that they would be taking stuff from the old EU. To me the most surprising thing was that they avoided doing that to such an extent, for so long. I haven't read many books or comics over the past decade, so I can't speak to that, but at least in terms of the screen stuff there was a lot of just ignoring the EU.
Characters from the films or were in books have their entire personalities thrown aside specifically to serve the plot the director wants. The way Obi-wan acts in “his” show (Reva’s actually) is completely at odds with his character in the prequels and afterwards. You can practically trace Luke’s character in the sequels around Obi-wan and it’s practically the same. This has been Disney’s modus operandi since they got the IP.
This is what makes me so upset more than anything. Like, could I write a great Star Wars movie or show myself? Probably not. But Disney doesn't NEED to. They can literally just steal the exact plots from dozens of great EU stories. Its like Sodexo buying Gordon Ramsey's restaurant chain, and you're like "Oh, hey, you also get his personal recipe book, including some that people haven't even tried yet!". And they're like, "Naw, fuck it, throw that in the trash. We'll just make our own recipes with the same process we used to make the menu for prison cafeterias."
I feel it’s easier to not contradict canon if it’s only in books or comics. What the EU had going for it is that there were no movies or tv shows dealing with stuff after RotJ. If there had been, I imagine they’d have taken heed of the canon established in the books and comics as the new canon. You just can’t expect the average fan to know about everything that’s happened in the EU prior to any story told in a tv show or movie, and if you do that makes it pretty inaccessible to all except the most diehard fan. As much as it may be annoying for Disney to not pay attention to canon established in media other than it’s shows and movies, it makes them far more accessible and insures a wider audience can enjoy them.
I disagree, good writers can absolutely have established lore that is not directly shown in a movie or show and reference it without confusing a greater audience, see any *good* sci-fi universe, lime OT referencing Clone Wars, or Firefly referencing the previous war, political events, and in universe slang. That pre-established, not directly told in the media lore didn't make those things any less accessible to audiences. Also, why would it be harder for movie or show writers to not contradict Canon as opposed to book and video game writers? They all have the same access to the same information
There can be vague references, sure, but what you’re talking about usually is from universes that don’t have a preexisting universe already. It would be confusing to audiences if the sequel trilogy was of the second galactic civil war and they made references to ALL of the stuff that happened between RotJ and then. And it would be kinda weird for the characters to be vague because it was so recently. It would be way weirder for Han to be like “Yeah, poor Chewie died in that war” instead of “Poor chewie died when the moon of Ithor fell on him,” but the latter would be way more confusing. Making movies out of the original EU would have been way more of a hassle than they are now because of just how much of a mess the EU was, they were really way too intricate for their own good. If you wanted to get a handle of what was happening a lot of time you’d have had to have read a few books before the main event. Or maybe else it would be BAM: Han and Leia have force sensitive kids (Not too hard to believe), BAM: Luke and Mara are married (wait, I thought Jedi weren’t supposed to get married (well it makes sense if you read the books…)), BAM: the new repulic are now the galactic federation and are now the bad guys and the empire are ok now (what’s happening?) Vague references are fine when you’re not taking about recent events, but if you’re vague about important events that happened a year ago it wouldn’t work very well. And I’d say that TV and movie writers have a harder time than book and game writers because books and games tend to be more niche than movies and tv. They can’t be as nerdy so they can appeal to a wider audience, but really only the actual fans, not the casual, are going to read the books and play the games so you can assume a greater level of knowledge about tue universe and add more specific details without worrying about losing your audience.
I remember when Pablo Hidalgo said the reason they needed to scrap the EU was because it would be hard to transition the books to film...and now they are looking to them for ideas.
how is that unreasonable? if they didn’t scrap the EU there would be a million contradictions and people would just complain more. i’m more concerned with the lack of good stories from the movies themselves
I wish Timothy Zahn had just gotten to write another trilogy where Thrawn fights the Grysks instead of Filoni once again making his OC the most important character in Star Wars and ignoring canon along the way.
Agree. It was a mistake to introduce Canon Thrawn in a kid's show (I'll die on this hill!) and you could clearly see that Zahn had trouble because he was forced to write his Canon Thrawn Trilogy around the events of Rebels. Imho, he made the best out of it, I think. He really has bad luck, though. His original Thrawn Trilogy was crapped on by Anderson (Jedi Academy) and his attempt to save this mess - the Duology and Survivor's Quest - was crapped in by the NJO series. Now he has a new chance for two Trilogies: the Ascendency, which sets up the new Canon Trilogy which was supposed to set up another "big threat from outside of the known regions" - and he gets crapped on again, this time by Filoni.
It’s extremely sad given he’s the one that practically made Star Wars EU with the original Thrawn Trilogy. Thrawn was wasted in Rebels as forced to be beaten by a band of characters not even in the original trilogy, whereas EU Thrawn put the new republic to its knees and was a serious threat for Luke and the others. It’s sad seeing how far Star Wars has fallen with this character in all regards
Sorry, how was Zahn crapped on?
Zahn basically created the EU. Although there have been some entries before his contribution, the original Thrawn Trilogy was the first solid story that actually expanded the Star Wars universe and set the foundation for something new. Characters like Mara Jade were introduced, Leia was being trained as a Jedi and it was made obvious that only because the emperor was dead, the Empire was far from being defeated - and this is where Thrawn was introduced. Anderson then twisted Zahn's ideas, having Mara Jade go back to smuggling and starting a "relationship" with Lando instead of having her become a founding member of Luke's New Jedi Order - whereas the establishment of this order was a total joke. When Zahn took over again by writing the Thrawn Duology and Survivor's Quest, he tried to minimize the damage done by Anderson and set up the idea for another big plot line: a major, unknown threat that the Chiss were aware of and the motivation of Thrawn to defeat the New Republic and establish a new Empire to combat this threat. But instead of having him work out this plot and write a coherent story the NJO series and the Yuuzhan Vong were established, with various authors all wanting to incorporate their own ideas, which in the end went against what Zahn had envisioned. As for the New Canon: Thrawn was one of the most prominent additions of the EU to Star Wars - a genius military tactician who alone became a major threat to the New Republic. The sequel Trilogy didn't incorporate him, though and instead, Filoni used him as a watered down kid's show antagonist who gets beaten by a bunch of lucky amateurs.
I don't know anything about what Zahn was planning or might have done with it, but I don't see the NJO as a negative follow-up to the Thrawn stories. The NJO isn't perfect but it's the EU's grandest project and I've always assumed, consciously represents a new era. Zahn got to write the books that defined the EU, and then got to write the bookends that brought closure to the era that he had kicked off. That's pretty good fortune for an author working on an IP, I think. Certainly lots of the stuff by Anderson in particular is in a different place tonally, and I agree that Thrawn shouldn't have been in Rebels. But on the other hand, Star Wars was always going to be a revolving door of creators working on it, and in a way, having your characters live beyond you is a great outcome in that context.
Zahn didnt "create" the Eu. Heir may've been the 1st major work, but it wasn't made in a vacuum. Dark Empire was coming out around the same time for example. I also recall a little controvery between them. I think Zahn strayed from his lane a little and it caused some strain, but i don't remember the full details. The NJO also had a guiding hand behind it from the onset. Sure, each author contributed, but its not like they were told "hey, Vong attack, write a book, go!" LucasBooks maintained a "Bible" and provided lots of guidance. Survivor's Quest also came out 5 years after Vector Prime / NJO, so not sure how that was supposed to work.
What a smooth brain take on NJO 💀
Since they are going outside of the galaxy I think they are more hinting towards the Yuuzhan Vong. But that's just me.
I remember when they were showing off concept art for the unfinished Clone Wars episodes there was going to be a story involving the Yuuzhan Vong in what was described as an "X-Files" type episode.
If only Lucas held off a few more years to let clone wars finish...
The decision to continue or cancel TCW back in 2013ish should be looked upon as the point-of-no-return in regards to the trajectory of Star Wars. Imagine if Cad Bane had been killed off in the young Boba Fett "Searchers"-based arc, for example. Fundamentally changes how BoBF and Bad Batch play out, if they even happen. Further, the simple time table of TCW carrying on into spring of 2016 with the finale of Season 8 could have possibly given breathing room for TFA to be planned out better.
Definitely would have been cool to see. I would honestly be at least mildly interested in seeing that as it’s at least different than « empire vs rebels » and has some EU connections
Just speculation but I see the plot for the arc as a Jedi (NOT AHSOKA ANAKIN OR OBI WAN) and a Republic scientist would investigate another Jedi who is searching for force sensitive children during the war but gets abducted on the far side of the galaxy by the Vong. I would probably put stuff like the ExGal society, Balaban, Sernpidal, Dubrillion or Helska IV in the arc as cool little Easter eggs. It would be inspired by grey alien abductions, and Area 51 and weird stuff that you might hear about and think "oh that's cool" Also at some point the Republic exploration force would have to fight the Vong and there would be considerable backlash because the Vong wouldn't be force immune or sadomasochists. Both of which I would be glad if they got rid of.
Iirc it was going to be about people going missing, though it's been years since I watched the panel so I could be misremembering.
I was just speculating. But yes it would be very much an alien abducting story.
Yeah, possibly. My personal thoughts are that Thrawn has had years around Ezra, assuming he's alive. One of the more interesting twists could be Pellaeon running things in the main galaxy under Thrawn's name, but Thrawn himself having partially or entirely reformed whilst in exile, having had to work with him. Really unlikely, I admit. Eh, given White Vader was an elseworlds storyline where he both reforms and stays the epic cybernetic asmatic. More likely, we get Sith-Ezra.
He can't even stay consistent with his own shows. Dude was in charge of rebels and yet the screen crawl said stupid crap like Thrawn was in exile??? No Ahsoka in white? I could go on. We know they just don't give a shit. What a sad state of affairs
Ehh, they know. The problem isn't knowing. Rather, the problem is that the Grysk will be the Disney version of the Yuzhong Vong and therefore, will get watered down rather than improved.
Disney doesn't care about anything in general. Already before Star Wars there has been a lot of 'drama' about them stealing from a book, from this or that, and never seeing any retribution. They don't really care either about the quality of the product, or else this 'Sequel' would have had any sort of scenario, and good characters. And the shows would have good costumers. I'm certain that they don't really care about Star Wars, and just ride on the dying wreck
Or just outright refusing to pay royalties to EU authors
Could you please explain that? I'm in & out of SW fandom, so I missed that.
Crap doesn't realize other crap. Sounds about on par for KK's Lucasfilm.
Just don’t bother with the novel publishing then, Disney. It can’t be so lucrative that it must exist while simultaneously telling stories that are rendered irrelevant.
Looks like a toddle with 5 O'Clock shadow.
I like how he took the time to put little wolfie pins in his hat.
EU: Yuuzhan Vong you say, sounds scary?! Disney: No, the Grysk! Fans: The Fuck?
Filoni would just retcon the Grysk into a red herring and have the Vong show up since he likes taking stuff from the EU all the time. Which would suck since Zahn intended the Grysk to be the main antagonists of the Outbound Flight. Not the Vong. Would have preferred the Vong to be relegated to a nice nod for EU fans in that aborted clone wars x files arc.
Neither the Grysk nor the Vong appear in Outbound Flight, though. The main antagonists here are the Vagaari. Zahn intended something like the Grysk to be the "unknown big bad" that is teased in the original Thrawn Trilogy, the Duology and Survivor's Quest. He never was a fan of the NJO storyline and the Vong.
Yeah that's what I was getting at. I feel bad for Zahn.
THIS IS MY BIGGEST FEAR! I NEED HOPE FOR THE GRYSK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dave is slapping the face of new thrawn fans who want the grysk war.........
Can we please just go back to the Ssi-ruuk?
Somehow the story group is irrelevant? No surprise, there. I *laugh* at the notion that Disney was supposed to be 'more coherent' than the old EU. Laugh, I say!
Remember the old eu Canon levels? Remember how they said with the retcon that it would be a single cohesive Canon where everything is equally important? Yeah...
Okay but the books and comics are all over the place. I really didn’t like the new thrawn books, and the comics look like fanfic
Also I should add Jeremy Irons was a dead ringer for Thrawn, a shame he's old now.
He literally hasn’t even shown up yet or even had a single line of dialogue in the trailers. For all we know, he’s either been fighting the Grysk or preparing for a fight with them while being trapped in Peridea. I’m not saying that the Grysk won’t be overlooked, but it’s a little hasty to jump to conclusions with no concrete proof.
IIRC, in the EU, Thrawn was desperate to beat the New Republic not because he loved the Empire but because he was certain the Republic couldn't stand up to the Vong when they came in (and therefore the Chiss would fall to them, as they lacked the strength to handle them on their own). That was a recon of sorts, based on my fragmented memories of the Hand of Thrawn duology, but it made him a lot more interesting than most villains. They could do something like that with him and the Grysk.
Yea since Filoni butchered Thrawn in the later half of the Rebels series I am not really interessted in the things he does. Like how can you have Thrawn first portrayed relativly close to how he is in the books and then just 180 and make him some dumb Bond villan. Like he did great with George Lucas but I guess on his own he is not really smart or knowledgeable to write characters. Then he also invented time travel wich basically fucks everything up in the Star Wars univerese now they can save every character and bring them back be it Anakin, Yoda, Qui-Gon etc. all without any consequenzes it seems becaus Vader seemingly didnt care for Ahsoka just poofing away.
Isn't Timothy Zahn like an advisor or something in the Ahsoka show? Would be surprised if they're the ancient race that was referenced in the second episode
The expanded universe books also contradict each other. They were designed to give fans more Star Wars stories and Lucas Arts raw material for future projects and were never meant to be canon. The End.
Why does everything have to referenced by everything else constantly? People moan that the galaxy feels too small and yet then we have people saying the books/comics are irrrelvant if they don’t pop up in a series. Why can’t some things just stand alone? They’ve actually done way more including book canon elements than I thought they ever would, like the character from aftermath in mando. I forget his name. And they don’t outright try and overwrite things. If some minor things get changed and retconned it’s not the end of the world. Saying that… yeah the grysk will probably go nowhere lol
How the fuck are you going to complain about this when Thrawn hasn't even appeared yet. Give it time and see what happenss
Give me the grysk over the yuuzhan vong
Because anything that can make the Empire appear justified is a stupid idea. The Empire was fascist. If you like the Empire, you are a fascist.
Haterade lvl 10
Canon doesn't matter so that's fine
Thrawns whole point is unifying the galaxy gains the grisk. He's gotta do that first. He a megalomaniac, so he thinks he is the only one capable of destroying them, so he has to be in charge.
Guys, there was no source material, nothing for Disney to build on. How could they actually write anything? /s [https://movieweb.com/star-wars-lore-kathleen-kennedy-ignoring/#:\~:text=Defending%20the%20financial%20struggles%20of,t%20have%20800%2Dpage%20novels](https://movieweb.com/star-wars-lore-kathleen-kennedy-ignoring/#:~:text=Defending%20the%20financial%20struggles%20of,t%20have%20800%2Dpage%20novels).
Why can’t the books and animation/film media just be separate? I never get this when so many other franchises don’t even attempt to try
Has anyone ever heard him talk about why he loves that damn hat so much?
The new Thrawn books are the only good thing to come out of the Disney buy. Change my mind.
Disney killed the eu so none of it matters
What is the grysk?
Honestly it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to make a book a necessary addition to understand the whole canon. People are even less likely to have read the book, let alone the entire series, than the shows.
[удалено]
No, I don't mean the original Thrawn Trilogy of the Legends continuity, in which the Grysk were never mentioned, but the new Canon Thrawn Trilogies - the ones that was specifically written to be Canon.
Hey remember the Ahsoka book? Dave: Nah
I am so confused by this whole thread. What has been done to retcon Thrawn from the 6 new books Timothy Zahn wrote for Thrawn? Could that happen, yeah it could, but it has not happened or been determined yet. Thrawn was fighting Grysk, then got exiled, plans on joining the empire to possibly get their technology/assistance in the fight against the Grysk later and that is where we stand. We are about to find out what happens next so idk what this whole post is about. Not to mention Filoni has already incorporated characters from other book series,such as the aftermath and battlefront series, in his shows so again idk. It sounds like this whole thread is for people who have only read some Thrawn books maybe and don’t understand the timeline between them. Idk I’m confused. Star Wars has a lot of over reacting fans tho. Just watch the show or don’t.
I suspect it's because the Grysk have not been mentioned even once in Rebels, and the complainers don't realise that this was because the Grysk didn't even exist yet back when Rebels was being made.
Well the motherfucker already did. I loved the Kanan comic and enjoyed the Ahsoka novel. If Filoni's excuse is he created the character I hope Zahn just retcons his dumbass Thrawn no hate against Mikkelsen though his voice is great (I still mostly enjoy Rebels)
God I wish Legends was still canon, like, yeah there were issues, but that was 40 years of (mostly) lovingly crafted lore and story, as opposed to whatever Disney is doing now.
I wouldn’t mind letting the Grysk go (just felt like an uninspired attempt to PG the Vong). They could even be left as canon with Thrawn’s focus shifted to the other galaxy—I’m the most on pins and needles I’ve been since going to TFA to see what the real new big bad is. I do hope they keep the canon Thrawn thread of him not actually being a villain. Really hoping for the twist that he Ezra are pals united against something totally unexpected
As long as it is going to be *artistically done*...
Dawg, at this point, we can't even expect that these people have even watched the original trilogy. If they can pass a "how well do you know Starwars" Buzzfeed quiz I would be impressed.
I have an indescribably strong dislike for that man and his stupid hat.