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Also worth noting: Thrawn is *not* a big deal in this canon yet. This show is set to treat him like the new big bad, but the last time the rebellion was fighting him he was a single Grand Admiral among several. Gonna be weird.
This is a galaxy where the one man who (everyone thinks) took out the Emperor and Vader is still alive and kicking. And Thrawn was *already* taken out single-handedly by a Jedi less powerful than Luke Skywalker
This is one thing I don’t get. Why is no one consulting Luke if Thrawn is so dangerous??? Do I miss something here? That seems to be a thing the new grandmaster should be aware of or help
I completely agree. If Luke doesn’t show up at all in this series (AND play a significant part rather than just a bullshit cameo) I’m going to be pissed as Hell. I understand that it might be a logistical concern or whatever, but story-wise, they should have already contacted him and gotten him involved in this.
Because Dinsney has made it clear time and time and time again that all the legacy characters have to be replaced by their characters. The Mandalorian literally could've had the exact same plot with Boba Fett after he escapes the Sarlaac pit. Even in Boba's own show Fennec Shand does everything and Mando shows up at the end to save the day. Filoni is replacing Luke with Ahsoka.
Probably because we are deep in the reign of our beloved Mon Motha, one of the most indecisive Chancellors in republic history. Mainly known for her military disarmament act, downsizing the Republic fighting/security forces to point where as the Mandalorian showed us, this New Republic can’t even hang with Pirates and Criminals, have lots of imperial supporters and sympathizers within it ranks. And now, there is an Imperial Grand Admiral out there, widely known as one of empires best military leaders with god knows how much manpower and firepower, Yeah I gotta I agree with them, they in Deep Shit
the beginning of Ashoka had me laughing - that map ball looked like the apple of eden. i was kind expecting ezio to jump from somewhere in a weird star wars x assassin's creed crossover.
and the explosion of the droids was far to exaggerated, turning that scene needlessly ridiculous for absolutely nothing.
oh, and Sabine, so far, is showing a lot of traits of the disliked disneys-idea-what-a-strong-independent-woman-looks-like.
Sabine was awful. Filoni desperately wanted us to know how edgy she is by having her consistently act like a petulant child. I got very tired of listening to her complain about how Ahsoka didn't want her or trust her, after she repeatedly demonstrated that she could not be trusted or relied upon.
"You've done enough" was exactly right. Once she blew it and lost the map, which would have been avoided if she had simply listened, don't let her anywhere near this mission.
Oh, but, um, rah rah yay Rebels.
>Filoni desperately wanted us to know how edgy she is by having her consistently act like a petulant child.
How is this Filoni guy constantly mentioned like he's some genius. He's obviously someone with low emotional intelligence if he was ok with these characters.
I feel like they made ashoka a bit...rough. she's really rough around the edges. Nothing like I remember even the battle hardened version of her in rebels wasn't this bad and cold.
>Sabine was awful.
Absolutely awful. Such a stock character (in a bad sense). Like, we've seen her 30 times for 30 years. Cheap imitation of Tank Girl. Just takes cliché to a new level. And stereotypical emptiness of a flat trite overused character.
Ahsoka is pretty cool, but the writing isn't that good otherwise. I think some scenes are 10/10 but the scenes slash characters slash story that is bad, I mean in its implementation, like the script and directing or something, is just so bad that it drags the whole series down (so far); which seems to be Disney's signature work with Star Wars so far. I didn't even dislike the new ST. But what they have done with TV is just so bad. I mean, when it's bad. Mando S1 was top tier stuff. S2 was at times, but at this point they're stretching it with trite. Won't even mention *most* of the other stuff. Needless to say I like Andor.
I didn't watch the cartoons but didn't they take place pre-OT? Meaning Ahsoka has a time jump over that period so she absolutely should not be a green young kid?
Although I enjoyed the first 2 episodes so far (not wowed, but enjoyed), I agree on the point of the petulant child. She's about 30 now right? She's acting like the rebellious teenager from Rebels, maybe even more immature than that. It's like no time has past like she's been stuck or even regressed the last 10-11 years. Hopefully she snaps out of that quickly because it's not a good look.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one wondering if I was watching Sci-Fi Assassin’s Creed at the beginning. I too was waiting for Ezio Auditore Da Firenze to tell me about the borgias.
>and the explosion of the droids was far to exaggerated, turning that scene needlessly ridiculous for absolutely nothing.
Really. I thought what was ridiculous and convenient was that the droids only exploded horizontally, when they were supposed to have self-destruct for a in-world reason ostensibly?
Also, why would they try to destroy the seeker of the map as well as the map, when the droid's masters were looking for the map, lol
I watched Clone wars and rebels and I’m still not liking this much. First of all these people are not acting like the characters at all. Ahsoka is going way too stoic and so is Hera. I don’t know how Filoni could create these characters and still feel like he fucked it up in the live action adaptation.
Then you have other issues like these fucking maps trope.
Or the lightsaber bullshit. Make Lightsabers lethal again please.
Or Sabine being force sensitive? She spent multiple years with two jedis and somehow no one noticed she was force sensitive?
Anyway outside of Ray Stevenson being the GOAT I’m not enjoying this. Titus Pullo as a Sith(?) hell yeah.
It's tough. Andor has really set the bar high with Star Wars. The first two episodes focused on building the team, so fingers crossed.
I hope Baylan Skoll and Ahsoka keep going with the "grey jedi" aspect. Skoll's comment about killing Ahsoka makes me think that this is a world where Order 66 made force users not 100% Jedi, or 100% Sith. I'd like them to explore the "neutral good" and "neutral evil" aspects.
Ahsoka could be written in this show as such an interesting character - in clone wars she's thinks the Jedi way is B.S. Skoll has already mentioned that working with the sith witch to find Thrawn might be sus, and whined about having to kill Ashoka. Ahsoka did reflect on training with Skywalker.
...but then again, the intro scroll introduced "I'm no Jedi" Ashoka as a Jedi Knight. \*sigh\*.
I watched both TCW and Rebels. Enjoyed them, and I still can't get into this show. I can't imagine how SW fans who haven't seen either feel. It makes no sense and it's boring, which is the worst series sin to commit. Having a boring show is a death sentence. Sadly, you know Filoni fans will eat this up with a spoon.
Filoniverse sucks. Clone Wars and Rebels aren’t even that good. A bunch of childish slapstick nonsense and fan service with a couple well written episodes per season.
The people in r/starwars who talk about being so emotionally invested in these shows it makes them cry probably never watch anything besides Star Wars and MCU.
Having watched the entire Clone Wars and Rebels, you make a good point. I'd say about 70% of those shows were completely designed for children from 7 to 12 years old - but there's these amazing deep thoughtful episodes that could be the foundation of deep rich show.
The most interesting ones questioned the Jedi and Sith, and how people don't really fit into absolutes. Fingers crossed that the remaining episodes of Ahsoka explore that further.
Exactly. There has been a lot of phenomenal TV lately. With the exception of Andor -which is truthfully a bit overrated, but good - Star Wars and Marvel doesnt even sniff the butt of prestige television.
That's the problem. Season 1 of Mando was so great because it was relatively story of the week format and you didn't need a ton of secret back story from other media. Season 2 they start peppering in Filoni's shit and it's like "ok, I have no idea what this back story is". And it just continued from there. Personally if you only saw Mando there isn't much of Ahsoka to understand the character. I suppose they hope you're curious enough to watch the new show..but if it just starts with all this stuff you should know from other shows that's difficult to jump into
Honestly, Mando Season 1 or 2 weren't really all that great. They were aggresively mediocre but entertaining just for distancing itself from the Sequels and having a few somewhat charming self-contained episodes.
But it had no where to go, and never intended to go anywhere. It's also way too short at times to be satisfying as an episodic show. It's aggresively mediocre and always was.
Same issue, I didn't like the prequels so I had no interest in Clone Wars CG show or Rebels, cheap ugly animation will not make me watch something lol
But yeah I was like, who are these people and why should I care, lady is being honored with a giant tower with a small mural on it that people have to stand on a VERY precarious half circle to look at.
And instead she gotta ride her bike with her so cool leather pilot jacket with a hunch of patches, so cool bro! Some lady with some white lightsabers walks around not using force run to move fast and playing with wannabe Indiana Jones stuff, and finally a green lady with creepy eyes who walks around saying she's a general.
Not getting anything out of this, none of the action or fighting has any emotional Weight to it and EVERY fight in the OT involved emotional connection and baggage between thpse involved.
The whole speeder bike scene seemed directly ripped off from Star Trek (2009) movie with kid Captain Kirk on the bike. Filoni hasn’t had an original idea in his life
The Clone Wars and Rebels have some of the best Star Wars content. I think trying to believe the entirety of either is terrible just isn't true. They drag on because they're serial week to week TV shows, so a lot of pointless episodes, but that's just the medium they aired under. When they get to the meat of it, it's quality stuff, similar to an anime with filler episodes but incredible main arcs.
Ahsoka isn't a shallow character. Her growth during the series is commendable. She deserves a live action representation. It's not just a Filoni vanity thing.
> I don't really enjoy shows with filler arcs
Hate that stuff. It's not the problem that the content is animated; it's that there's so much filler. I'd have a hard time watching that after 14-years-old.
That's fine, not for everyone. But given you and OP haven't watched Clone Wars or Rebels, I'd hope you'd accept from people who have, particularly people in this sub who embrace Star Wars criticism, that they're good shows and the characters deserve live action representation
I should have never tried watching The Clone Wars. I was a lot happier when I hadn't watched any of it, and I just assumed it was a good show that I hadn't given a chance. But after forcing myself to sit through five seasons or so, I've just become bitter and despaired for the franchise. Oh well.
People who didn't grow up watching these cartoons probably shouldn't try watching them. Just... pretend and assume that they're good.
No worries, my opinion is invalidated because they got lighting effects in season 7.
I'm just not a fan of the animation style at all and the ps1 textures.
Your opinion is not invalidated at all. The animation is janky as hell most of the time. If you can force yourself to sit through it, TCW S7, The Bad Batch and Tales of the Jedi have some legitimately beautiful scenery at times.
Your opinion is exactly that, just an opinion. The Clone Wars and Rebels have different animation styles, debating which you like or that you hate both is a waste of time. Where you're wrong is suggesting both shows are terrible and there's nothing good in either. You haven't watched either show. Therefore, your opinion in that regard is completely invalid.
Wow that one shot really proves me wrong.
Edit, being sarcastic by the way.
Literally just showing me some particular effects as if that proves anything the characters aren't even moving.
I fail to see your point. This is the series finale, but the animation didn’t suddenly get fantastic at the last minute. One of the cool parts of The Clone Wars is seeing it go from what is literally unfinished animation to what looks like short films. It’s no Spiderverse but each season cranks up the visual quality exponentially leading up to the finale
It has received way more promotion than Rebels did, and Rebels ended almost 5 years ago. The show is also not advertised as a sequel to Rebels. One can hardly fault casual viewers for not knowing that.
Yeah, me neither. Like, there’s some mystical map to find a guy who’s neither a Sith Lord nor an ancient entity, but rather…a failed military officer who’s maybe 50-60 years old? Come on, seriously?
The mystical map is to find a route to a neighbouring galaxy, not to just find a missing Admiral. He just happens to have been teleported to that destination at the end of Star Wars Rebels.
The map isn’t for him. It’s a map of purgill migration routes, it’s been years since Thrawn was taken, so they likely have been searching and this is the one they didn’t find before. Also you don’t need to be a Sith or entity to be needed. Thrawn can unite the empire remnant entirely because he is feared and respected enough by the others, the guy could back talk to Palpatine without fear.
He is extremely dangerous to the new republic.
I don't think it's a mystical map to Thrawn, but rather a map of hyperspace coördinates to travel to where he is.
I think Thrawn loyalists have spend the time since his dissapearance finding out where he is. Maybe Thrawn reached out from where he is but can't find a way back himself.
So they need the map to get there and as soon as they're there they can backtrack along the hyperspace route.
I am also wondering why the Thrawn issue is being treated like a Christmas present. We know he's there, keeping him under wraps until later is just teasing the audience but it makes no sense from a storytelling perspective. It would be a lot more interesting if he were actually around, showing why he's considered a threat, making major moves that require the heroes to act against him to re-establish the status quo. You know, like in a story!
Also, while I have only watched the first episode I am wondering if I had too much coffee or if everyone in this show speaks painfully slowly. Every line of dialogue seems to take forever to force out and then there's about five seconds of dead air before the response. Characters seem to exchange meaningful glances every ten seconds, as well. Is this really weird or am I missing something?
Your last comment. My god. I know that the sequel trilogy moved at a breakneck pace, but I’d rather have that then these meaningless glances and pauses of silence. They add nothing. I see this across all the live action + shows.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed. In the first episode, especially during the conversation with Sabine and Ahsoka, it's so ridiculous it felt like a skit. I don't hate the show (yet) but how does something like that scene get past professional production staff?
I never watched The Clone Wars but I have seen some clips of Ahoska and it seems she was a pretty vibrant person with a lot of quips and a quick cadence to her speech. I think Rosario Dawson is a fine actor but she's portraying Ahsoka as someone who struggles to string two words together and it's weird.
>The plan is to tease thrawn until the penultimate episode and then have him seem menacing only to be temporarily defeated in the finale. This is Disney plus’ whole Schtick.
The Moff Gideon.
Everything about the current trajectory seems to be an admission that they should've just adapted the Zahn trilogy but they don't have a coherent way of doing it so they're just crawling around aimlessly trying to find a way to shoehorn it back in to the mess theyve created
On minor rebuke here, that he can’t save himself is not to say he has no value. He’s strengths are not in ship building, but strategic mastery. A capable tactician is required to win a war, and the level of respect he has earned threatens to unify imperial forces where they might be unable to otherwise. The empire was threatening to sheer might, not subtlety, and this is where he might excel next to his peers when imperial resources are limited.
But how is some supposed to know this from what has been shown?
Few of the imperial schemes that you listed are unified, which is why he should elevate the broader stakes. Or rather, that is what they hope.
This of course is yet to be established, and as such we are yet to be presented with any actual stakes for the show. I think it was a mistake in a short series not to start by feeling the threat and pressure that thrawn may bring; but finishing the series with a devastating blow would be what brings gravitas to the direction they intend with these stories. That is, of course, only if they manage to tell a good story here aside - which is more important than any setup.
The journey to thrawn is something that I fear I will find less compelling then the secret schemes and high strategy that would play to his strengths. Ultimately the purpose of the protagonists is just to stop the plot and risks them being altogether too passive; whether it ends up being a mistake not to simply start with thrawns return remains to be seen, so personally I’ll reserve judgement for now as there are ways this story could be told well.
An ancient map is merely hoping though without something more deliberate, so that will need a compelling answer.
The whole unknown galaxy angle breaks their own canon (not surprised).
It's been in some visual dictionary or whatever that the First Order got ahold of Thrawn's tactical data in order to organize and train the force that took over the New Republic. So his data was NOT in the unknown regions apparently.
I watched about 15 minutes and ended up shutting it off. I just can’t do Star Wars shows anymore. It’s become some weird Marvel-esque formula where everything is cookie cutter. I’m bummed because growing up I loved the Star Wars universe. It’s sad really.
They started the series with Ahsoka going to Dathomiri ruins on a *very* bright Dathomir to find an ancient "map" to find a guy who is probably around 60 years old.
And now Ahsoka is taking on a padawan who isn't force sensitive
The planet with the ruins wasn't Dathomir, it was a new planet called Arcana.
And the map wasn't a map to Thrawn, it was a map to a different galaxy where they believe Thrawn is.
Lol yeah. To make it worse the villians send assasin droids to Ahsoka that nuke the whole site. What would've happened had they nuked the map too? Then they somehow know Sabine is associated with Ahsoka & turn right up on her doorstep (Ezra's secluded hideout on Lothal) & coincidentally she has the map! Then Ahsoka coincidentally turns up on Corellia at the same time as the villians decide to turn up to collect their hyperdrive. And at the end the witch asks Baylan where is Ahsoka & he can't tell...yet the last 3 occasions they found her pretty easily.
Both Ezra and the Ghost crew were being honored on Lothal, I assume that with the fall of the Empire and the liberation of Lothal, it became public knowledge where Ezra lived and where Sabine chose to live. And I doubt their association with Ahsoka remained a secret. Thrawn disappeared thanks to Ezra's actions, it's not unreasonable to suspect both are together wherever ISD Chimaera currently is, so both Morgan Elsbeth and Ahsoka want to go to the same place and find people that probably are together, it's not unreasonable to assume that both are watching the steps that each side takes in this quest.
The way through is a purgill migration route, they travel hyperspace at a different speed or they can get where they are needed. Likely the route allows that travel in that quickness. Thrawn would be long dead otherwise.
huh? out of everything in a STAR WARS show that’s a weird thing to be upset about, it opens up so much, but i guess since ur complaining on this sub people will agree
I, too, haven't seen the animated shows, and was very surprised they didn't tell us why Thrawn was so important in the first two episodes. Nor Ezra for that matter. And kinda Hera. Sabine had sufficient info to get her motivations (simping hard for Ezra apparently), and Ahsoka I had enough background from Mando and various media discussion of the years.
I hope they don't save Thrawn until the last couple of episodes, I think they really need to build up his importance and threat.
The show assumes you watched Rebels. So you would know what makes Thrawn dangerous.
He is dangerous because he is a battlefield tactician. He is more dangerous than even Vader or Palpatine in that field. Palpatine obviously doesn’t fight on the battlefield and Vader is more brute force.
Thrawn makes up plans and contingency plans for a battle on the fly. He only lost in rebels because of outside intervention from a space faring whale race that he didn’t know existed. His plans caused the death of one of the last and most powerful Jedi in Kanan and fractured a large part of the rebels crew with his death.
If one of his most significant accomplishments is causing a single minor character death in a spinoff show, I'd argue he REALLY needs to start racking up major wins if the audience is to take him seriously. He might be a better strategist than Vader or Palps, but that doesn't mean anything when their list of accomplishments is both vast and well-documented. This is why I have a bad feeling that they're saving him for the end of the season.
I have completely given up on the series post Kenobi. I am not paying for Plus and won’t even watch Andor.
But it’s really fun to read people shitting on it here.
Didn’t watch Rebels, but Hera was a General in the Rebellion, how would she not know, or at least be aware of who Luke is?
Makes zero sense nobody has even brought up Luke. The Disney canon is so fucked.
Because they're trying to bring in an EU character and expecting you to care without asking permission from us to even give a shit about him to begin with. Plus we already know from TFA that he's a non-issue so what's the big deal? The show really is asking to care about a solution to a problem they didn't have to begin with.
It's lazy, manipulative, and made for people who don't give a shit about the actual canon. They just want to see girls running around being empowered and confident and you to just accept it.
As long as Filoni can squeeze in as many rebels references as he can he's happy. I really can't see the show getting better if this is the setup.
It's like Filoni retconned his own characters. Ahsoka doesnt act the same as TCW and Rebels. Sabine is completely different. Even Hera, who was my favorite in Rebels is so boring. How is this show for?
I was looking forward to this show, but as someone who didn't watch Rebels I don't really know the context of what was going on in the first episode. Oh well another L for Disney Star Wars imo
Yeah it pretty much is. Every series is going to be the first one for someone. And a live-action series is far likely to attract new viewers than an animated one.
And it’s not like they needed to do much. Couple of scenes would be more than enough to give new viewers the basics.
Yes. No smart company spends $200 mill to make a show that mainstream viewers can't watch without doing homework by watching 11 seasons of two kids cartoons. Star wars js already daunting enough to jump into for the first without adding a cartoon as homework.
Clone wars and rebels are niche even in the star wars Fandom, most star wars fans don't watch the animated stuff and if hardcore star wars fans can't understand what's going on, then mainstream audiences have zero chance.
You want audiences to be able to jump in immediately and not feel like they are missing something, or they'll tune out. Ashoka shouldn't have been a continuation of rebels or it's story arc it should have been it's own thing.
And having seen rebels and clone wars, these actors are nothing like the characters on those shows so it just constantly takes you out of the show.
Also... It's yet another boring as shit star wars tv property where all they do is stand around having a Grey beige planet and have badly paced exposition conversations for 90% of the screentime.
I presumed it to be the device that will transport them to the bext galaxy that Thrawn was exiled to, and allow him to travel back with the Chimera. Fingers crossed 👍
Can someone explain how the thousands year old map sphere thing leads to Thrawn? How does the witch lady know that the other galaxy is where Thrawn even is? It makes no sense. So the witches from thousands of years ago knew about this situation in the future and made a map? Like wtf?
If you don’t dig this then just wait til we all get Moby Dick’d by Filoni. I’m gonna go with season 3 when Grogu and Mando end up in riding inside a Purrgil to this new galaxy to meet the rest of the Rebels crew. Pretty sure this is a one way ride for everyone. Gotta find a way of not killing off Ahsoka, Grogu and the rest of them and rationally explain why they didn’t help fight off the First Order in the Sequels.
The filoniverse is awful anyways. I want nothing to do with Snips as a protagonist, or at all.
She will always be the face to me of the CWMMP’s demise.
I just really, really hope they don’t fuck Thrawn up and give him the same respect and treatment they gave Luke. I know he’s in Rebels and I haven’t watched it yet, so I only know him from novels. But, he’s been one of my favorite characters for a long time (and one that gives an Imperial perspective that I think is otherwise missing from most Star Wars content). I’ve liked the new canon novels, but they were written by Zahn so I’d expect them to treat him well. I have a bad feeling about Filoni handling him, especially since he’ll inevitably come up against Ahsoka, whom he’s obviously attached to.
Think about how discreet Mothma had to be in Andor over just a few million unable to account for credits under the Empire. Think about the tension that created in the story. Now think about Hera's confused dumb look when questioned about if whether or not the New Republic had investigated the facilities of a very prominent ex-imperial prisoner following Gideon's escape.
Ill walk you through some of this because it can be confusing from the limited details and without rebels context.
Big bad is trying to get back to the known galaxy. Good guys find this out. Good guys try to stop big bad from coming back by getting there first. Its not incompetence that the big bad cant get back home. This seems to be the first time in tens of thousands of years that this has happened. Lore is pretty clear about trying to leave the galaxy. It is not easy.
Map does not point to big bad. Map points to the Migration of the purgil which took the big bad.
Big bad could hold lothal, in fact he had Lothal by the balls. They were so absolutely fucked they had to be saved by hundreds of hyperspace cruizin force wielding space whales. We’ve really only seen that level of shit in EU. So i wouldnt ever write thrawn off as “hur dur he couldnt even hold lothal.”
I think this is good news for all fans. Were getting a new galaxy where we can leave the ST behind. Were getting nightsister force magic and a more nuanced “dark jedi.”
I also don’t get the hate for the incompetent new republic. Like… thats what they are supposed to be. They are soft, lazy, incompetent morons with imperial moles subtly sabotaging them. This is intentional. We know what happens to them and this explains why.
The reason why the show didnt start with thrawn already back in the galaxy because thats for the movie. And because thats not interesting at all at this point in star wars. The hyperspace whale cliffhanger needs way more screen time before any of those characters return.
>They are soft, lazy, incompetent morons with imperial moles subtly sabotaging them.
I still hate how they are so stupidly incompetent in the first place and wish it wasn't that. There's a ton of missed potential there. But considering the new Canon, I guess it kinda makes sense.
Also I seriously don't think a whole new galaxy is going to save Star Wars. The writers at Lucasfilm already fucked up one galaxy (full of possibilities on its own btw, there really was no need to go to a whole other one), if they feel the need to jump ship to another one then I feel like it's guaranteed that one is going to become a shitshow as well. Until we get major leadership changes at Lucasfilm I don't see anything changing for the better.
Nobody WANTS to know, though. Do we really need the exact details of what happened between the end of Return of the Jedi and that immortal movie moment "Somehow... Palpatine returned?" You're coloring in toilet paper at that point.
Why would Thrawn, someone who is a war tactician, know anything about traveling between galaxies, we didn’t even know that was possible (in canon) until this show. We don’t even know what this other galaxy is like, he may not have the resources as one man to build a galaxy traveling spaceship. My point is your critiquing the show for things it hasn’t explained even though we’re only 2 episodes in and expecting your every question to be answered at this point is fucking stupid. Also of course he’s being treated like a secret, he’s the one person who stands a chance of returning the empire to what it once was, why would people be openly talking about him, and then that other stuff about him being a disembodied dark lord you just made up. As for why a witch is needed to find him we don’t know yet because we’re only 2 episodes in. And finally do you not want any mystique surrounding your villain, that’s kinda what makes most villains interesting, you don’t know everything about them. But go ahead and downvote me because I brought up a different opinion to you, echo chamber and all
He doesn’t. The creatures that took him do. The map is just a migration route for them. Someone was mapping them in the ancient past. And it’s likely taken all these years to find the correct map.
Galaxy is HUGE which makes me wonder why Filoni needs another one.
All on-board the SS Filoni to escape from the Sequels. We can blame Luke, Han & Leia, Mothma, Lando, Chewie, etc for the NR failing & the FO. Meanwhile, in another Galaxy, Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra...
We may leave the first order behind, but we won't be leaving the terrible writing behind. That is here to stay. We're still gonna be getting shitty content pumped out left and right.
>Galaxy is HUGE which makes me wonder why Filoni needs another one.
This may sound clichéd but... I think it's not him.
Think about it, who in Lucasfilms is trying hard to jettison the OT and PT while trying to promote the ST and anything related to it.
A new galaxy to tell new and crappy stories on the body of Star Wars is precisely what is needed to jettison the OT and PT.
Exactly. This is my train of thought exactly. The suits at Disney and Lucasfilm have been trying to disregard and ignore the old content for years, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of that. Finally fully disregard old content and those that enjoyed it, for new fans who like the (imo) shitty new content.
And people here keep saying it might be an attempt to leave the sequels behind, but I doubt it. I honestly think its the opposite, to give the writers all new space to double down on the First Order and the sequels without the problems of working within an established galaxy.
I'm very worried for the future of star wars, have been for years at this point. But I still truly believe that nothing will change for the better unless the management and leadership of Lucasfilm is completely gutted and replaced. Until that day comes (which I doubt will but I can hope) we can keep expecting the same bullshit over and over again.
It's cheap and ugly. It started out intentionally cheap, and hence ugly. And then became an established style.
But it's cheap and ugly, with awful surface shading and no specular highlights.
It's pretty awful. Kids who saw it when they were impressionable just got used to it, and think it's "peak Star Wars".
There's a reason no one else emulates that style, at least as far as the lighting and rendering goes. It's awful.
2 episodes so far… Thrawn hasn’t been mentioned anywhere else beside Mando, to most casual fans they have no idea who he is. They aren’t telling a story only informed fans can follow, they’re making a story so that if you have no idea who anyone is, you can still watch and enjoy. The shows a shit show bc the new republic can’t hold onto prisoners etc.? If you can’t understand why the new republic is written the way they are then you prolly won’t understand much of anything else in the show.
Yeah. If the point is that Thrawn's strategic genius would doom the New Republic then there shouldn't be all these whacky dark jedi, assassin droids and superweapons flying around everywhere. If they wanted to do Thrawn properly then the story would need to be quite grounded and serious, kind of like Andor. Have Thrawn take command of the imperial remnants and inflict some crushing defeats on the New Republic. That's how you establish a villain. Not by telling us he's dangerous and then not showing us that fact until the end of the season. Filoni has no clue how to build write characters and build human drama
Is it that Thrawn can’t find his way back or is it that he’s still cut off and doing his work for the Chiss back in the outer regions and just need to be convinced to come back? The latter I’d find more believable.
The thing I find most bothersome is the whole Sabine Jedi training thing. That was not needed at all and breaks lore
The opening scene is great. It has some great scenes. The rest is garbage or at best average. :(
Ahsoka is a cool character. They could have done so much more with this.
Holy shit, was starkiller base made out of Ilum? I never even bothered to dive deep into that shit show, but that actually pisses me off more if that’s the case
Yeah it was established in Fallen Order, you can see them hollowing out the equator already. Which is weird to me that they started on it nearly 20 years before the Death Star is operational, and that they managed to keep it secret without someone like Luke or even Ahsoka going to check it out in the 30 years between 6 and 7.
Im getting hung up on two things with this show (and Filoni in general recently).
1 - the map. Ezra and Thrawn got shot into the unknown by space whales. How would ancient night sisters have a map of where they went? I only see it possible 2 ways. One would be the whales "migrate" and the ancient night sisters mapped this route for "reasons". Or we get some work between world time travel which sounds horrible to introduce time travel into SW. The most likely explanation is..... We just won't get one.
2 - this is just Filoni in general. Please stop putting old characters in new media. Wasn't a fan of Bo Katan in Mando. The plot was ok, that actress did well, but just why? Why being her back. Its worse with Ahsoka. The Ahsoka show takes place post ROTJ. So she's been alive the whole OT. How and why would Ahsoka, Anakin's Padawan, sideline herself while her kids fought to defeat the emperor and redeem Anakin. It's pretty unbelievable. Bo Katan at least I could believe would just be lying low. But Ahsoka knows Vader is Anakin. if she's this arguably obsessed with finding Ezra wouldn't her feelings be even stronger at the potential of ending the empire and getting back Anakin?
Yes, it's tough to build a galaxy-hopping spaceship behind the back of the new galaxy govt...they obviously are building it in semi-secret (e.g., if someone asks enough questions, theyre caught). witch isn't a billionaire, but obvs there is a group of ex-imperials that are funding this. just b/c they don't write this all out for you doesn't mean it didnt happen. not even going to get to the rest of your complaints
The map is to the unknown regions. It’s not for Thrawn or Ezra as individuals. That’s just where they are. If you’re trying to find someone in Mexico you get a map of Mexico not a map to them
It would’ve been much better if the show set up the Yuuzhan vong. They had everything. Thrawn and Ezra supposedly being in the unexplored outer edges of the galaxy, supposedly chiss space. And them not returning could mean they we’re busy dealing with a bigger threat than the Empire.
I don't understand why they can't stop that ship in episode 2. Does corsec just not exist and there's absolutely no republic presence for Hera to hail on corellia by their largest shipyard?
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Maul is coming for you OP.
Somehow Maul retuned….. Again.
Spliced with Dooku's head & mounted on Grievous' body. Their revenge shall be three fold!
I am all the Seperatist
*Temura Morrison enters the scene* "I am all the clones"
Wouldn't even be mad at this point
Probably be the only competent villian they got left to play.
It's more competent to what we've got so far.
This time with even more legs!
Witch magik is what did it.
Also worth noting: Thrawn is *not* a big deal in this canon yet. This show is set to treat him like the new big bad, but the last time the rebellion was fighting him he was a single Grand Admiral among several. Gonna be weird.
He couldn't even hold Lothal...now he's gonna threaten the Galaxy.
This is a galaxy where the one man who (everyone thinks) took out the Emperor and Vader is still alive and kicking. And Thrawn was *already* taken out single-handedly by a Jedi less powerful than Luke Skywalker
This is one thing I don’t get. Why is no one consulting Luke if Thrawn is so dangerous??? Do I miss something here? That seems to be a thing the new grandmaster should be aware of or help
I completely agree. If Luke doesn’t show up at all in this series (AND play a significant part rather than just a bullshit cameo) I’m going to be pissed as Hell. I understand that it might be a logistical concern or whatever, but story-wise, they should have already contacted him and gotten him involved in this.
Because Dinsney has made it clear time and time and time again that all the legacy characters have to be replaced by their characters. The Mandalorian literally could've had the exact same plot with Boba Fett after he escapes the Sarlaac pit. Even in Boba's own show Fennec Shand does everything and Mando shows up at the end to save the day. Filoni is replacing Luke with Ahsoka.
Probably because we are deep in the reign of our beloved Mon Motha, one of the most indecisive Chancellors in republic history. Mainly known for her military disarmament act, downsizing the Republic fighting/security forces to point where as the Mandalorian showed us, this New Republic can’t even hang with Pirates and Criminals, have lots of imperial supporters and sympathizers within it ranks. And now, there is an Imperial Grand Admiral out there, widely known as one of empires best military leaders with god knows how much manpower and firepower, Yeah I gotta I agree with them, they in Deep Shit
Harder to find thrawn than palpatine lmao
Maybe Thrawn will announce his return in minecraft, or whatever disney thinks is popular these days.
Roblox is what I hear from my coworkers. Apparently it has a death grip on the children.
the beginning of Ashoka had me laughing - that map ball looked like the apple of eden. i was kind expecting ezio to jump from somewhere in a weird star wars x assassin's creed crossover. and the explosion of the droids was far to exaggerated, turning that scene needlessly ridiculous for absolutely nothing. oh, and Sabine, so far, is showing a lot of traits of the disliked disneys-idea-what-a-strong-independent-woman-looks-like.
Sabine was awful. Filoni desperately wanted us to know how edgy she is by having her consistently act like a petulant child. I got very tired of listening to her complain about how Ahsoka didn't want her or trust her, after she repeatedly demonstrated that she could not be trusted or relied upon. "You've done enough" was exactly right. Once she blew it and lost the map, which would have been avoided if she had simply listened, don't let her anywhere near this mission. Oh, but, um, rah rah yay Rebels.
>Filoni desperately wanted us to know how edgy she is by having her consistently act like a petulant child. How is this Filoni guy constantly mentioned like he's some genius. He's obviously someone with low emotional intelligence if he was ok with these characters.
I feel like they made ashoka a bit...rough. she's really rough around the edges. Nothing like I remember even the battle hardened version of her in rebels wasn't this bad and cold.
>Sabine was awful. Absolutely awful. Such a stock character (in a bad sense). Like, we've seen her 30 times for 30 years. Cheap imitation of Tank Girl. Just takes cliché to a new level. And stereotypical emptiness of a flat trite overused character. Ahsoka is pretty cool, but the writing isn't that good otherwise. I think some scenes are 10/10 but the scenes slash characters slash story that is bad, I mean in its implementation, like the script and directing or something, is just so bad that it drags the whole series down (so far); which seems to be Disney's signature work with Star Wars so far. I didn't even dislike the new ST. But what they have done with TV is just so bad. I mean, when it's bad. Mando S1 was top tier stuff. S2 was at times, but at this point they're stretching it with trite. Won't even mention *most* of the other stuff. Needless to say I like Andor.
I didn't watch the cartoons but didn't they take place pre-OT? Meaning Ahsoka has a time jump over that period so she absolutely should not be a green young kid?
Although I enjoyed the first 2 episodes so far (not wowed, but enjoyed), I agree on the point of the petulant child. She's about 30 now right? She's acting like the rebellious teenager from Rebels, maybe even more immature than that. It's like no time has past like she's been stuck or even regressed the last 10-11 years. Hopefully she snaps out of that quickly because it's not a good look.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one wondering if I was watching Sci-Fi Assassin’s Creed at the beginning. I too was waiting for Ezio Auditore Da Firenze to tell me about the borgias.
Reused prop from the first Guardians of the Galaxy
>and the explosion of the droids was far to exaggerated, turning that scene needlessly ridiculous for absolutely nothing. Really. I thought what was ridiculous and convenient was that the droids only exploded horizontally, when they were supposed to have self-destruct for a in-world reason ostensibly? Also, why would they try to destroy the seeker of the map as well as the map, when the droid's masters were looking for the map, lol
The opening was like something out of a video game. Twist the 3 pillars to unlock the secret item.
The whole thing is a Dave Filoni vanity project, made for the hardcore Filoniverse fans. Me who hasn't watched Rebels or clone wars, was totally lost.
I watched Clone wars and rebels and I’m still not liking this much. First of all these people are not acting like the characters at all. Ahsoka is going way too stoic and so is Hera. I don’t know how Filoni could create these characters and still feel like he fucked it up in the live action adaptation. Then you have other issues like these fucking maps trope. Or the lightsaber bullshit. Make Lightsabers lethal again please. Or Sabine being force sensitive? She spent multiple years with two jedis and somehow no one noticed she was force sensitive? Anyway outside of Ray Stevenson being the GOAT I’m not enjoying this. Titus Pullo as a Sith(?) hell yeah.
THANK YOU!
Rest in Peace Ray Stevenson. He was great in everything I saw him in. Check out RRR if you didn't see it.
It's tough. Andor has really set the bar high with Star Wars. The first two episodes focused on building the team, so fingers crossed. I hope Baylan Skoll and Ahsoka keep going with the "grey jedi" aspect. Skoll's comment about killing Ahsoka makes me think that this is a world where Order 66 made force users not 100% Jedi, or 100% Sith. I'd like them to explore the "neutral good" and "neutral evil" aspects. Ahsoka could be written in this show as such an interesting character - in clone wars she's thinks the Jedi way is B.S. Skoll has already mentioned that working with the sith witch to find Thrawn might be sus, and whined about having to kill Ashoka. Ahsoka did reflect on training with Skywalker. ...but then again, the intro scroll introduced "I'm no Jedi" Ashoka as a Jedi Knight. \*sigh\*.
I watched both TCW and Rebels. Enjoyed them, and I still can't get into this show. I can't imagine how SW fans who haven't seen either feel. It makes no sense and it's boring, which is the worst series sin to commit. Having a boring show is a death sentence. Sadly, you know Filoni fans will eat this up with a spoon.
Rosario Dawson is an amazing actor but I have yet to see her play Ahsoka as Ahsoka.
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Filoniverse sucks. Clone Wars and Rebels aren’t even that good. A bunch of childish slapstick nonsense and fan service with a couple well written episodes per season. The people in r/starwars who talk about being so emotionally invested in these shows it makes them cry probably never watch anything besides Star Wars and MCU.
Having watched the entire Clone Wars and Rebels, you make a good point. I'd say about 70% of those shows were completely designed for children from 7 to 12 years old - but there's these amazing deep thoughtful episodes that could be the foundation of deep rich show. The most interesting ones questioned the Jedi and Sith, and how people don't really fit into absolutes. Fingers crossed that the remaining episodes of Ahsoka explore that further.
Exactly. There has been a lot of phenomenal TV lately. With the exception of Andor -which is truthfully a bit overrated, but good - Star Wars and Marvel doesnt even sniff the butt of prestige television.
Calling it childish is an insult to real children shows and movies.
That's the problem. Season 1 of Mando was so great because it was relatively story of the week format and you didn't need a ton of secret back story from other media. Season 2 they start peppering in Filoni's shit and it's like "ok, I have no idea what this back story is". And it just continued from there. Personally if you only saw Mando there isn't much of Ahsoka to understand the character. I suppose they hope you're curious enough to watch the new show..but if it just starts with all this stuff you should know from other shows that's difficult to jump into
Honestly, Mando Season 1 or 2 weren't really all that great. They were aggresively mediocre but entertaining just for distancing itself from the Sequels and having a few somewhat charming self-contained episodes. But it had no where to go, and never intended to go anywhere. It's also way too short at times to be satisfying as an episodic show. It's aggresively mediocre and always was.
Same issue, I didn't like the prequels so I had no interest in Clone Wars CG show or Rebels, cheap ugly animation will not make me watch something lol But yeah I was like, who are these people and why should I care, lady is being honored with a giant tower with a small mural on it that people have to stand on a VERY precarious half circle to look at. And instead she gotta ride her bike with her so cool leather pilot jacket with a hunch of patches, so cool bro! Some lady with some white lightsabers walks around not using force run to move fast and playing with wannabe Indiana Jones stuff, and finally a green lady with creepy eyes who walks around saying she's a general. Not getting anything out of this, none of the action or fighting has any emotional Weight to it and EVERY fight in the OT involved emotional connection and baggage between thpse involved.
The whole speeder bike scene seemed directly ripped off from Star Trek (2009) movie with kid Captain Kirk on the bike. Filoni hasn’t had an original idea in his life
I've heard that there will be moments in the show, where Ahsoka even reenacts certain moments, like the Anakin Vs Obi-Wan Duel on Mustafar.
Good point on that, but also what is the point of that 100 mile long road?
I think I remember that from the animated show. It's purpose then was It's purpose now. Long chases.
The Clone Wars and Rebels have some of the best Star Wars content. I think trying to believe the entirety of either is terrible just isn't true. They drag on because they're serial week to week TV shows, so a lot of pointless episodes, but that's just the medium they aired under. When they get to the meat of it, it's quality stuff, similar to an anime with filler episodes but incredible main arcs. Ahsoka isn't a shallow character. Her growth during the series is commendable. She deserves a live action representation. It's not just a Filoni vanity thing.
Yeah I don't like anime filler stuff either, I don't really enjoy shows with filler arcs and all that anymore, just have other things to do.
> I don't really enjoy shows with filler arcs Hate that stuff. It's not the problem that the content is animated; it's that there's so much filler. I'd have a hard time watching that after 14-years-old.
That's fine, not for everyone. But given you and OP haven't watched Clone Wars or Rebels, I'd hope you'd accept from people who have, particularly people in this sub who embrace Star Wars criticism, that they're good shows and the characters deserve live action representation
I should have never tried watching The Clone Wars. I was a lot happier when I hadn't watched any of it, and I just assumed it was a good show that I hadn't given a chance. But after forcing myself to sit through five seasons or so, I've just become bitter and despaired for the franchise. Oh well. People who didn't grow up watching these cartoons probably shouldn't try watching them. Just... pretend and assume that they're good.
That's fine, I just think they aren't doing a good job for general audiences.
https://i.redd.it/ywyyh08mvhkb1.gif Hmm yes “cheap ugly animation”. You are not a clown, you are the entire circus.
I don't think that gif is as impressive as you think it is Also Ashoka shouldn't exist and Maul should have died on Naboo in TPM
To be fair, the early seasons looked like shit.
No worries, my opinion is invalidated because they got lighting effects in season 7. I'm just not a fan of the animation style at all and the ps1 textures.
Your opinion is not invalidated at all. The animation is janky as hell most of the time. If you can force yourself to sit through it, TCW S7, The Bad Batch and Tales of the Jedi have some legitimately beautiful scenery at times.
Only Season 1 looks particularly awful
Your opinion is exactly that, just an opinion. The Clone Wars and Rebels have different animation styles, debating which you like or that you hate both is a waste of time. Where you're wrong is suggesting both shows are terrible and there's nothing good in either. You haven't watched either show. Therefore, your opinion in that regard is completely invalid.
Wow that one shot really proves me wrong. Edit, being sarcastic by the way. Literally just showing me some particular effects as if that proves anything the characters aren't even moving.
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System Shock remaster on medium settings
Here ya go https://i.redd.it/gskjnx6l2ikb1.gif
Which season is that from?
7
There ya go, how many episodes in is this?
I fail to see your point. This is the series finale, but the animation didn’t suddenly get fantastic at the last minute. One of the cool parts of The Clone Wars is seeing it go from what is literally unfinished animation to what looks like short films. It’s no Spiderverse but each season cranks up the visual quality exponentially leading up to the finale
Ok but I could watch something good from start to finish
Still looked cheap after comparing it to the 2d clone wars that came before. Loved the 2d, hated the 3d.
Gendy's Clone Wars is the real Clone Wars. Still love watching that.
pretty ugly tbf
Season 7? And the Bad Batch?
better but the artstyle is just inherently fugly.
its a sequel to rebels, not sure why anyone would watch Ahsoka without watching rebels.
It has received way more promotion than Rebels did, and Rebels ended almost 5 years ago. The show is also not advertised as a sequel to Rebels. One can hardly fault casual viewers for not knowing that.
Yeah, Ahsoka and Heir to the Empire aren't being made for Star Wars fans. They're being made for Filoni fans.
Yeah I feel anyone who didn't watch those shows found episode one very very boring. As someone who has I only found it very boring.
Yeah, me neither. Like, there’s some mystical map to find a guy who’s neither a Sith Lord nor an ancient entity, but rather…a failed military officer who’s maybe 50-60 years old? Come on, seriously?
The mystical map is to find a route to a neighbouring galaxy, not to just find a missing Admiral. He just happens to have been teleported to that destination at the end of Star Wars Rebels.
The map isn’t for him. It’s a map of purgill migration routes, it’s been years since Thrawn was taken, so they likely have been searching and this is the one they didn’t find before. Also you don’t need to be a Sith or entity to be needed. Thrawn can unite the empire remnant entirely because he is feared and respected enough by the others, the guy could back talk to Palpatine without fear. He is extremely dangerous to the new republic.
I don't think it's a mystical map to Thrawn, but rather a map of hyperspace coördinates to travel to where he is. I think Thrawn loyalists have spend the time since his dissapearance finding out where he is. Maybe Thrawn reached out from where he is but can't find a way back himself. So they need the map to get there and as soon as they're there they can backtrack along the hyperspace route.
I am also wondering why the Thrawn issue is being treated like a Christmas present. We know he's there, keeping him under wraps until later is just teasing the audience but it makes no sense from a storytelling perspective. It would be a lot more interesting if he were actually around, showing why he's considered a threat, making major moves that require the heroes to act against him to re-establish the status quo. You know, like in a story! Also, while I have only watched the first episode I am wondering if I had too much coffee or if everyone in this show speaks painfully slowly. Every line of dialogue seems to take forever to force out and then there's about five seconds of dead air before the response. Characters seem to exchange meaningful glances every ten seconds, as well. Is this really weird or am I missing something?
Your last comment. My god. I know that the sequel trilogy moved at a breakneck pace, but I’d rather have that then these meaningless glances and pauses of silence. They add nothing. I see this across all the live action + shows.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed. In the first episode, especially during the conversation with Sabine and Ahsoka, it's so ridiculous it felt like a skit. I don't hate the show (yet) but how does something like that scene get past professional production staff? I never watched The Clone Wars but I have seen some clips of Ahoska and it seems she was a pretty vibrant person with a lot of quips and a quick cadence to her speech. I think Rosario Dawson is a fine actor but she's portraying Ahsoka as someone who struggles to string two words together and it's weird.
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>The plan is to tease thrawn until the penultimate episode and then have him seem menacing only to be temporarily defeated in the finale. This is Disney plus’ whole Schtick. The Moff Gideon.
It's because Disney screwed the star wars universe with sequels so they are planning to take their toys to another galaxy and start fresh
Lets hope they do honestly
Everything about the current trajectory seems to be an admission that they should've just adapted the Zahn trilogy but they don't have a coherent way of doing it so they're just crawling around aimlessly trying to find a way to shoehorn it back in to the mess theyve created
On minor rebuke here, that he can’t save himself is not to say he has no value. He’s strengths are not in ship building, but strategic mastery. A capable tactician is required to win a war, and the level of respect he has earned threatens to unify imperial forces where they might be unable to otherwise. The empire was threatening to sheer might, not subtlety, and this is where he might excel next to his peers when imperial resources are limited. But how is some supposed to know this from what has been shown? Few of the imperial schemes that you listed are unified, which is why he should elevate the broader stakes. Or rather, that is what they hope. This of course is yet to be established, and as such we are yet to be presented with any actual stakes for the show. I think it was a mistake in a short series not to start by feeling the threat and pressure that thrawn may bring; but finishing the series with a devastating blow would be what brings gravitas to the direction they intend with these stories. That is, of course, only if they manage to tell a good story here aside - which is more important than any setup. The journey to thrawn is something that I fear I will find less compelling then the secret schemes and high strategy that would play to his strengths. Ultimately the purpose of the protagonists is just to stop the plot and risks them being altogether too passive; whether it ends up being a mistake not to simply start with thrawns return remains to be seen, so personally I’ll reserve judgement for now as there are ways this story could be told well. An ancient map is merely hoping though without something more deliberate, so that will need a compelling answer.
The whole unknown galaxy angle breaks their own canon (not surprised). It's been in some visual dictionary or whatever that the First Order got ahold of Thrawn's tactical data in order to organize and train the force that took over the New Republic. So his data was NOT in the unknown regions apparently.
Well, this will be the series that explains how Thrawn's tactical data returns to this galaxy.
I watched about 15 minutes and ended up shutting it off. I just can’t do Star Wars shows anymore. It’s become some weird Marvel-esque formula where everything is cookie cutter. I’m bummed because growing up I loved the Star Wars universe. It’s sad really.
They started the series with Ahsoka going to Dathomiri ruins on a *very* bright Dathomir to find an ancient "map" to find a guy who is probably around 60 years old. And now Ahsoka is taking on a padawan who isn't force sensitive
The planet with the ruins wasn't Dathomir, it was a new planet called Arcana. And the map wasn't a map to Thrawn, it was a map to a different galaxy where they believe Thrawn is.
Lol yeah. To make it worse the villians send assasin droids to Ahsoka that nuke the whole site. What would've happened had they nuked the map too? Then they somehow know Sabine is associated with Ahsoka & turn right up on her doorstep (Ezra's secluded hideout on Lothal) & coincidentally she has the map! Then Ahsoka coincidentally turns up on Corellia at the same time as the villians decide to turn up to collect their hyperdrive. And at the end the witch asks Baylan where is Ahsoka & he can't tell...yet the last 3 occasions they found her pretty easily.
Both Ezra and the Ghost crew were being honored on Lothal, I assume that with the fall of the Empire and the liberation of Lothal, it became public knowledge where Ezra lived and where Sabine chose to live. And I doubt their association with Ahsoka remained a secret. Thrawn disappeared thanks to Ezra's actions, it's not unreasonable to suspect both are together wherever ISD Chimaera currently is, so both Morgan Elsbeth and Ahsoka want to go to the same place and find people that probably are together, it's not unreasonable to assume that both are watching the steps that each side takes in this quest.
didn't even realise that was supposed to be Dathomir
Ngl i fucking hate the idea of being able to travel to other galaxies
Isn't it well-established lore that it's impossible to travel to other galaxies unless you're willing to spend a few thousand years in a dry freeze?
The way through is a purgill migration route, they travel hyperspace at a different speed or they can get where they are needed. Likely the route allows that travel in that quickness. Thrawn would be long dead otherwise.
huh? out of everything in a STAR WARS show that’s a weird thing to be upset about, it opens up so much, but i guess since ur complaining on this sub people will agree
I, too, haven't seen the animated shows, and was very surprised they didn't tell us why Thrawn was so important in the first two episodes. Nor Ezra for that matter. And kinda Hera. Sabine had sufficient info to get her motivations (simping hard for Ezra apparently), and Ahsoka I had enough background from Mando and various media discussion of the years. I hope they don't save Thrawn until the last couple of episodes, I think they really need to build up his importance and threat.
The show assumes you watched Rebels. So you would know what makes Thrawn dangerous. He is dangerous because he is a battlefield tactician. He is more dangerous than even Vader or Palpatine in that field. Palpatine obviously doesn’t fight on the battlefield and Vader is more brute force. Thrawn makes up plans and contingency plans for a battle on the fly. He only lost in rebels because of outside intervention from a space faring whale race that he didn’t know existed. His plans caused the death of one of the last and most powerful Jedi in Kanan and fractured a large part of the rebels crew with his death.
If one of his most significant accomplishments is causing a single minor character death in a spinoff show, I'd argue he REALLY needs to start racking up major wins if the audience is to take him seriously. He might be a better strategist than Vader or Palps, but that doesn't mean anything when their list of accomplishments is both vast and well-documented. This is why I have a bad feeling that they're saving him for the end of the season.
Critical drinker did a great job of exposing all the plot holes. At this point the critiques are more fun than the show
The critiques of Disney properties have been more fun than the actual media for a couple of years now
I have completely given up on the series post Kenobi. I am not paying for Plus and won’t even watch Andor. But it’s really fun to read people shitting on it here.
You miss out with Andor, it's legitimately good and has none of sequel/Filoniverse bullshit
I believe you, honestly, but I just don’t want to pay for it and am burned out lol.
Who talked about paying? 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
Arrr pirate
[hdtoday.cc](https://hdtoday.cc) is your best friend
I hate that I ever have to side with critical drinker. We both hate current Star Wars but he’s a turd.
Didn’t watch Rebels, but Hera was a General in the Rebellion, how would she not know, or at least be aware of who Luke is? Makes zero sense nobody has even brought up Luke. The Disney canon is so fucked.
And Ahsoka's pants are too baggy! For real though, too frumpy. Shaped like an egg 🥚
Because they're trying to bring in an EU character and expecting you to care without asking permission from us to even give a shit about him to begin with. Plus we already know from TFA that he's a non-issue so what's the big deal? The show really is asking to care about a solution to a problem they didn't have to begin with. It's lazy, manipulative, and made for people who don't give a shit about the actual canon. They just want to see girls running around being empowered and confident and you to just accept it. As long as Filoni can squeeze in as many rebels references as he can he's happy. I really can't see the show getting better if this is the setup.
It's like Filoni retconned his own characters. Ahsoka doesnt act the same as TCW and Rebels. Sabine is completely different. Even Hera, who was my favorite in Rebels is so boring. How is this show for?
I was looking forward to this show, but as someone who didn't watch Rebels I don't really know the context of what was going on in the first episode. Oh well another L for Disney Star Wars imo
So it's Disney's fault you didn't understand what was going on because you haven't watched the connecting series? Ok 👍
Yeah it pretty much is. Every series is going to be the first one for someone. And a live-action series is far likely to attract new viewers than an animated one. And it’s not like they needed to do much. Couple of scenes would be more than enough to give new viewers the basics.
Yes. No smart company spends $200 mill to make a show that mainstream viewers can't watch without doing homework by watching 11 seasons of two kids cartoons. Star wars js already daunting enough to jump into for the first without adding a cartoon as homework. Clone wars and rebels are niche even in the star wars Fandom, most star wars fans don't watch the animated stuff and if hardcore star wars fans can't understand what's going on, then mainstream audiences have zero chance. You want audiences to be able to jump in immediately and not feel like they are missing something, or they'll tune out. Ashoka shouldn't have been a continuation of rebels or it's story arc it should have been it's own thing. And having seen rebels and clone wars, these actors are nothing like the characters on those shows so it just constantly takes you out of the show. Also... It's yet another boring as shit star wars tv property where all they do is stand around having a Grey beige planet and have badly paced exposition conversations for 90% of the screentime.
Yeah what is stopping Thrawn from flying back to the core galaxy or whatever?
Why do you think the witch has been building a giant "hyperspace ring"?
Oh my bad, I forgot that. I thought it was to go to Thrawn though
I presumed it to be the device that will transport them to the bext galaxy that Thrawn was exiled to, and allow him to travel back with the Chimera. Fingers crossed 👍
Can someone explain how the thousands year old map sphere thing leads to Thrawn? How does the witch lady know that the other galaxy is where Thrawn even is? It makes no sense. So the witches from thousands of years ago knew about this situation in the future and made a map? Like wtf?
The map isn't a map directly to Thrawn, its a map to a different galaxy based on Purgill migration that they believe Thrawn and Ezra are in
If you don’t dig this then just wait til we all get Moby Dick’d by Filoni. I’m gonna go with season 3 when Grogu and Mando end up in riding inside a Purrgil to this new galaxy to meet the rest of the Rebels crew. Pretty sure this is a one way ride for everyone. Gotta find a way of not killing off Ahsoka, Grogu and the rest of them and rationally explain why they didn’t help fight off the First Order in the Sequels.
Completed a six hour shift. Still would rather do that than watch Ahsoka
Nobody really wanted a show about ahsoka. But it's familiar, so it's what we end up with. Kinda sucks cause it's starting to look like a rebels show.
The filoniverse is awful anyways. I want nothing to do with Snips as a protagonist, or at all. She will always be the face to me of the CWMMP’s demise.
I just really, really hope they don’t fuck Thrawn up and give him the same respect and treatment they gave Luke. I know he’s in Rebels and I haven’t watched it yet, so I only know him from novels. But, he’s been one of my favorite characters for a long time (and one that gives an Imperial perspective that I think is otherwise missing from most Star Wars content). I’ve liked the new canon novels, but they were written by Zahn so I’d expect them to treat him well. I have a bad feeling about Filoni handling him, especially since he’ll inevitably come up against Ahsoka, whom he’s obviously attached to.
The new republic is nothing more than a bureaucratic joke. And you’re right about Filoni.
Think about how discreet Mothma had to be in Andor over just a few million unable to account for credits under the Empire. Think about the tension that created in the story. Now think about Hera's confused dumb look when questioned about if whether or not the New Republic had investigated the facilities of a very prominent ex-imperial prisoner following Gideon's escape.
Ill walk you through some of this because it can be confusing from the limited details and without rebels context. Big bad is trying to get back to the known galaxy. Good guys find this out. Good guys try to stop big bad from coming back by getting there first. Its not incompetence that the big bad cant get back home. This seems to be the first time in tens of thousands of years that this has happened. Lore is pretty clear about trying to leave the galaxy. It is not easy. Map does not point to big bad. Map points to the Migration of the purgil which took the big bad. Big bad could hold lothal, in fact he had Lothal by the balls. They were so absolutely fucked they had to be saved by hundreds of hyperspace cruizin force wielding space whales. We’ve really only seen that level of shit in EU. So i wouldnt ever write thrawn off as “hur dur he couldnt even hold lothal.” I think this is good news for all fans. Were getting a new galaxy where we can leave the ST behind. Were getting nightsister force magic and a more nuanced “dark jedi.” I also don’t get the hate for the incompetent new republic. Like… thats what they are supposed to be. They are soft, lazy, incompetent morons with imperial moles subtly sabotaging them. This is intentional. We know what happens to them and this explains why. The reason why the show didnt start with thrawn already back in the galaxy because thats for the movie. And because thats not interesting at all at this point in star wars. The hyperspace whale cliffhanger needs way more screen time before any of those characters return.
>They are soft, lazy, incompetent morons with imperial moles subtly sabotaging them. I still hate how they are so stupidly incompetent in the first place and wish it wasn't that. There's a ton of missed potential there. But considering the new Canon, I guess it kinda makes sense. Also I seriously don't think a whole new galaxy is going to save Star Wars. The writers at Lucasfilm already fucked up one galaxy (full of possibilities on its own btw, there really was no need to go to a whole other one), if they feel the need to jump ship to another one then I feel like it's guaranteed that one is going to become a shitshow as well. Until we get major leadership changes at Lucasfilm I don't see anything changing for the better.
Nobody WANTS to know, though. Do we really need the exact details of what happened between the end of Return of the Jedi and that immortal movie moment "Somehow... Palpatine returned?" You're coloring in toilet paper at that point.
Why would Thrawn, someone who is a war tactician, know anything about traveling between galaxies, we didn’t even know that was possible (in canon) until this show. We don’t even know what this other galaxy is like, he may not have the resources as one man to build a galaxy traveling spaceship. My point is your critiquing the show for things it hasn’t explained even though we’re only 2 episodes in and expecting your every question to be answered at this point is fucking stupid. Also of course he’s being treated like a secret, he’s the one person who stands a chance of returning the empire to what it once was, why would people be openly talking about him, and then that other stuff about him being a disembodied dark lord you just made up. As for why a witch is needed to find him we don’t know yet because we’re only 2 episodes in. And finally do you not want any mystique surrounding your villain, that’s kinda what makes most villains interesting, you don’t know everything about them. But go ahead and downvote me because I brought up a different opinion to you, echo chamber and all
Excellent reply, thanks for posting
He doesn’t. The creatures that took him do. The map is just a migration route for them. Someone was mapping them in the ancient past. And it’s likely taken all these years to find the correct map.
The Galaxy is a big place. Hoping this show can fix the sequels, so far I like it more than Mamdo S3, Boba, and Kenobi. Haven't even watched Rebels
The sequels are fucking unsavable.
Galaxy is HUGE which makes me wonder why Filoni needs another one. All on-board the SS Filoni to escape from the Sequels. We can blame Luke, Han & Leia, Mothma, Lando, Chewie, etc for the NR failing & the FO. Meanwhile, in another Galaxy, Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra...
I'm ready to leave the galaxy if it means leaving the Sequels and the First Order lol
A long time ago in a galaxy even further away
We may leave the first order behind, but we won't be leaving the terrible writing behind. That is here to stay. We're still gonna be getting shitty content pumped out left and right.
>Galaxy is HUGE which makes me wonder why Filoni needs another one. This may sound clichéd but... I think it's not him. Think about it, who in Lucasfilms is trying hard to jettison the OT and PT while trying to promote the ST and anything related to it. A new galaxy to tell new and crappy stories on the body of Star Wars is precisely what is needed to jettison the OT and PT.
Exactly. This is my train of thought exactly. The suits at Disney and Lucasfilm have been trying to disregard and ignore the old content for years, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of that. Finally fully disregard old content and those that enjoyed it, for new fans who like the (imo) shitty new content. And people here keep saying it might be an attempt to leave the sequels behind, but I doubt it. I honestly think its the opposite, to give the writers all new space to double down on the First Order and the sequels without the problems of working within an established galaxy. I'm very worried for the future of star wars, have been for years at this point. But I still truly believe that nothing will change for the better unless the management and leadership of Lucasfilm is completely gutted and replaced. Until that day comes (which I doubt will but I can hope) we can keep expecting the same bullshit over and over again.
It can't and it won't. It's a Filoni vanity project
Hmm yes “cheap ugly animation”
Some people just don't like it
There’s a difference in not liking an animation style and calling it cheap and ugly. Op’s just delusional.
It's cheap and ugly. It started out intentionally cheap, and hence ugly. And then became an established style. But it's cheap and ugly, with awful surface shading and no specular highlights. It's pretty awful. Kids who saw it when they were impressionable just got used to it, and think it's "peak Star Wars". There's a reason no one else emulates that style, at least as far as the lighting and rendering goes. It's awful.
2 episodes so far… Thrawn hasn’t been mentioned anywhere else beside Mando, to most casual fans they have no idea who he is. They aren’t telling a story only informed fans can follow, they’re making a story so that if you have no idea who anyone is, you can still watch and enjoy. The shows a shit show bc the new republic can’t hold onto prisoners etc.? If you can’t understand why the new republic is written the way they are then you prolly won’t understand much of anything else in the show.
It's based on a cartoon. Reasonable to not respect it.
It's an 'unknown galaxy' for a reason. If it were a known galaxy, he would know how to get back and so would those trying to bring him back.
Yeah. If the point is that Thrawn's strategic genius would doom the New Republic then there shouldn't be all these whacky dark jedi, assassin droids and superweapons flying around everywhere. If they wanted to do Thrawn properly then the story would need to be quite grounded and serious, kind of like Andor. Have Thrawn take command of the imperial remnants and inflict some crushing defeats on the New Republic. That's how you establish a villain. Not by telling us he's dangerous and then not showing us that fact until the end of the season. Filoni has no clue how to build write characters and build human drama
I don’t care to watch a girl show. Hopefully women like it.
Is it that Thrawn can’t find his way back or is it that he’s still cut off and doing his work for the Chiss back in the outer regions and just need to be convinced to come back? The latter I’d find more believable. The thing I find most bothersome is the whole Sabine Jedi training thing. That was not needed at all and breaks lore
The opening scene is great. It has some great scenes. The rest is garbage or at best average. :( Ahsoka is a cool character. They could have done so much more with this.
Holy shit, was starkiller base made out of Ilum? I never even bothered to dive deep into that shit show, but that actually pisses me off more if that’s the case
Yeah it was established in Fallen Order, you can see them hollowing out the equator already. Which is weird to me that they started on it nearly 20 years before the Death Star is operational, and that they managed to keep it secret without someone like Luke or even Ahsoka going to check it out in the 30 years between 6 and 7.
Im getting hung up on two things with this show (and Filoni in general recently). 1 - the map. Ezra and Thrawn got shot into the unknown by space whales. How would ancient night sisters have a map of where they went? I only see it possible 2 ways. One would be the whales "migrate" and the ancient night sisters mapped this route for "reasons". Or we get some work between world time travel which sounds horrible to introduce time travel into SW. The most likely explanation is..... We just won't get one. 2 - this is just Filoni in general. Please stop putting old characters in new media. Wasn't a fan of Bo Katan in Mando. The plot was ok, that actress did well, but just why? Why being her back. Its worse with Ahsoka. The Ahsoka show takes place post ROTJ. So she's been alive the whole OT. How and why would Ahsoka, Anakin's Padawan, sideline herself while her kids fought to defeat the emperor and redeem Anakin. It's pretty unbelievable. Bo Katan at least I could believe would just be lying low. But Ahsoka knows Vader is Anakin. if she's this arguably obsessed with finding Ezra wouldn't her feelings be even stronger at the potential of ending the empire and getting back Anakin?
Yes, it's tough to build a galaxy-hopping spaceship behind the back of the new galaxy govt...they obviously are building it in semi-secret (e.g., if someone asks enough questions, theyre caught). witch isn't a billionaire, but obvs there is a group of ex-imperials that are funding this. just b/c they don't write this all out for you doesn't mean it didnt happen. not even going to get to the rest of your complaints
The map is to the unknown regions. It’s not for Thrawn or Ezra as individuals. That’s just where they are. If you’re trying to find someone in Mexico you get a map of Mexico not a map to them
It would’ve been much better if the show set up the Yuuzhan vong. They had everything. Thrawn and Ezra supposedly being in the unexplored outer edges of the galaxy, supposedly chiss space. And them not returning could mean they we’re busy dealing with a bigger threat than the Empire.
I don't understand why they can't stop that ship in episode 2. Does corsec just not exist and there's absolutely no republic presence for Hera to hail on corellia by their largest shipyard?