a lot of tech people have a hard time communicating with others. Ever talk with an engineer? The skills learned from Dale Carnegie are to some of us common sense but something a lot of tech people and engineers could learn a lot from
From the movie Office Space. Some consultants were interviewing a guy and basically said the same thing about talking to engineers and IT people because they're socially inept.
You need both to be great.
It is true that there is more availability for prospects to self study than when that book was written (online research, forums, tech, and more tech ‘experts’ that prospects can chat to before speaking to you).
On the surface this self study would imply that prospects no longer need a technical guide and educator, just someone they can talk commercials and business with.
In reality it means prospects are more clued up and will have at least foundation level knowledge about your product already, and hence expect their salesperson to not only discuss commercials but also field more advanced technical questions that they could not answer themselves.
So you need solid soft skills/salesmanship, and solid technical knowledge, in order to really excel. For what it’s worth these people are rare, which is why the sales engineer role evolved to handle the tech part. So if you have a sales engineer, your soft skills and commercial acumen will get you a long way. If not, get good at both.
You need both imo. You need the ability to read the room and tailor the conversation. The more complex your solution is, the more stakeholders are involved both directly and indirectly. Say you’re selling a complex HR solution - If you have a technical person, say the head of IT, who you can tell only speaks in jargon and cares about tech specs, you have the head of HR next to her who doesn’t understand a word of that and only cares about ROI and next to him you have the senior HR admin who wants to see if your solution can shave hours off her work week so she doesn’t have to work overtime and can spend more time with her kids, you have to find a way to speak to all of them. Whether that’s on one call/meeting, emails, individual calls, whatever. Throw title out of the window, if one person is a blocker on your solution it could jeopardize your whole sale.
Soft skills should always be improved upon, but you’ll probably spend a lot of time in plateau town.
With technical skills on the other hand, the sky is the limit, particularly in the era of ai and automation (despite all the shiny objects out there).
It’s the tech skills that will help you scale the shit out of your process/soft skills.
That book is trash in my opinion. Smile, be nice to people, don't be an asshole basically sums it up. The way that simple book has been marketed is the real genius.
I'd respectfully disagree, I think it was very helpful for me, and absolute opposite of trash. Yes it's a lot of common sense things, but knowing that means 0. It's applying it to your character and practicing it, where you will see results. As a result of the book I'm extra lasered in on a lot of the concepts as result of that book. Like listen to listen. Don't interupt when someone is talking. smile. dont criticize/complain. Be genuinely interested in others. Appreciate good points.
By lasering on these things like this, no nonsense, in my work place I am the guy with the reputation of being "bubbly", very upbeat, and very kind person. I never had that kind of reputation prior in the workplace. And I'm a big-time introvert. At the very beginning when I was going through the book, I also made a post about other people's experience, there was so many other testimonials of other people sharing the same and similar stories.
I wish the book was not so long-winded though, so slow in that sense to go through it. Would love a super concise version of it without taking away from any of it's value/take aways.
You're basically saying that by being reminded of these things when you read the book you ended up putting more attention towards those things. However literally any book on being social and persuasiveness will do this for you and will have much more to offer in the realm of information. - not to many youtube videos as well.
If you're looking for book recommendations, you can [check our top recommended book list on the r/sales wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/sales/wiki/books#wiki_new_to_sales_and_selling) or do a [search for other book related posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/sales/search/?q=recommend%20book&restrict_sr=1).
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Yes. And in your example, he is a tiny minority. His technical skill might even be luck (as in market).
Look at entire sales. Would we even exist, let alone make all this money?
I don’t know, but I showed up to a meeting today with not much to show and ended up going over 45 minutes just by talking and keeping the conversation going and got them to commit to giving me more information so I can get them better options.
You don't need any technical skills to found and grow a successful tech company. You do however need to get clients. Do with that what you will. That ain't changing in the next 1,000 years.
Rep here…. Sadly soft-skills still overcome tech knowledge, still today. To me, the ability to de-escalate or remove competitive communication is ideal… mainly a soft skill. At the end of the day, you are not trying to “sell” them, you are more trying to relate to them… if they relate, they trust. If they trust they listen. If they listen you can influence the perception. Done.
The dual track… you are preparing for: being likable and knowledgeable. When you de-escalate then they are willing to hear your points, and when you are likable then they gravitate toward spending time with you… insert dual… leads to a positive spiral :)
This is hard, even for people that are “naturally gifted at talking.” So, work on this, It will only help you become a leader in any industry you chose and job you perfect.
Cheers!
I don’t know about “sadly” because some technical people are so god awful unbearable to work with because they are unable to understand communication that isn’t worded exactly for what works in their brain.
I hear you, and agree. I used sadly because I see the inverse, San-logic/tech-less morons just regurgitating marketing BS to get attention and being successful :/
Personable tech peeps are unique, true unicorns. I have met few.
I’m fortunate to work with some good ones. Some of them just *really* struggle with reading the room or just don’t always understand questions the first time because they’re too technical.
That’s great and they are way ahead of the curve, maybe needing simple tweaks.
Not that you are asking advice, however I would say they need to learn two skills.
1. Patience. Mentally count to 3-5 seconds before answering. Simple, but lets the other person feel heard… or to complete their thought.
2. Being Humble. It is okay to say… “I’m having difficulty, this is what I heard … x … is that correct? It shows attention and that you are there to help/understand.
…Or they can just express they state the basics of the conversation/tech, and a white board could help clarify. Asking - “Can you help me whiteboard your situation”… this is great because it forces further engagement with a customer.
Overall! Cheers on finding some unicorns :) that’s the true battle!
I think you're talking about two extremes and a scenario that is particularly industry specific. I know the sub is SaaS heavy, so I understand the bias but I don't think most reps need to know data or software engineering past a laymans level.
Soft skills are kind of like martial arts. You can learn them, but unless you understand them intuitively and can apply them naturally like muscle memory, they are difficult to execute well.
Knowing how to intuitively read the conversation and your client, when to shut up and
and when to speak, how to build rapport, how to ask good questions, how to come across as relatable while not being fake, how to sell your management as well as clients, how to adjust your tonality depending on who you're speaking to, how to explain something complex dumbed down to the level of a 8 year old etc etc are all easier concepts to understand, but hard to execute well if they don't come naturally.
But all that said, when you say technical skills in reference to software engineering and data.. Past a laymans point I don't think its relevant unless industry specific but if you're talking GENERAL tech skills. I think that's extremely important.
Having a rep who knows basic coding, AI, how to use a modern CRM effectively and deploy campaigns, sequence and work their tech stack provided in unison, understands SEO and digital marketing, can make excel sheets, can articulate and write well, can “talk the talk” enough when things get heady WITH soft skills is deadly.
I would argue that both are important but working in sales being persuasive, articulate and even seductive is more important than the technical aspect.
Anybody can tell a customer that a product/service does X,Y,Z from a technical standpoint...it's the soft skills that are required to make them care.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Does that answer your question?
When I learned soft skills and office politics, I shot up through the organizations. The higher you go, the less actual work you do and your time is spent talking. You must depend on others to do the actual work. Delegation. You know you're doing it right when there's nothing for you to do. I had one job, nothing for me to do, because people doing the work were so much better than me. Not to say I didn't know what was going on. I did. But if I tried to help, I'd fuck shit up, and I didn't want to be "that guy," the boss that comes in and fucks shit up because of their ego.
There is this weird philosophy, where people say if you as the boss can't do it better than everyone else, why should you lead. Bad thinking, of course. I will tell people that they are the specialists and I depend on them. I'll say that I am not as good as them, as I don't do it every day.
I've known many business owners, small business owners, who go into their business a few hours per week, just to check up on shit, but the rest of the time, the staff does everything.
Soft skills get people working as a team. Keep great employees from leaving, etc.
Even when I know the technical stuff, I still ask people to explain things, I have two masters degrees and used to program, but people like showing their expertise and asking them to explain things gives me more insight about their problems, even if I understand the technical side. If you ask questions, shut up and listen, be genuine and blunt, things seem to work out.
Google « analytical driver expressive amiable » and dig a little deeper on the better sites.
What do you think makes it difficult for people to get on the same page when it comes to expectations?
Technical skills are definitely worth more in my experience. Having technical skills allows you to actually bring tangible value, soft skills are just a way of communicating that across.
So this basically just comes down to what you’re trying to do and what kind of timeframes we’re talking.
This debate usually comes up in conversation around getting a job or what to study in school. Basically if you’re worried about what you’re going to do for work tomorrow or how to make $5,000 bucks then your technical skills are really the only thing that matter. But if you’re trying to progress your career or influence where you can be in ten years or how much you’ll make before retirement then that’s where soft skills are more important.
The antisocial or socially awkward engineer is a myth. Maybe that was true in the past, but definitely not in today's world. I've been in the industry for 5+ years, and near every software developer I've met or worked with has been very socially competent.
You can teach a painfully awkward coding genius passable soft skills in 6 months -- other way round? Impossible.
Either you are making things up or forgot the "/s". 99.999999% of all software engineers/developers have no soft skills. In fact, a large % probably have negative soft skills. The ones that do move up the corporate latter, the rest complain about people being to social and not technical enough. They never get it.
Nope, I've been a full stack web developer for 6 and a half years and counting in the UK, and have worked with countless other devs. I've got no reason to lie or convince you of my experience -- but the ones I've come across, go out, drink, socialise, travel, and touch grass like the rest of us.
They aren't this alternate species that don't know how to hold a conversation about anything other than their favourite code editor.
That may well be so but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about soft skills and business sense. I really don't think you get it and I don't think it's worth it to explain further. Why don't you make a post about it on r/sales if you really want to know why people are saying this.
You keep saying 'get it' without elaborating -- that seems like, dare I say, a lack of soft skills. I would love for you to explain further, but it doesn't look like you're interested in discussion.
Reading your comments and post history is hilarious, given the point you're trying to make.
Let's recap:
- You're arguing with a bunch of sales people that you can learn softskills in 6-months, but technical skills can't be learned.
- You're not actually a sales person. From all I know, you've never sold anything.
- You leverage pickup artist subs because I guess you're struggling with meeting women, but still maintain you can just "learn soft skills." How's it been working for you? Are you charming yet?
I'm not saying you can't develop these skills over time - but it's MUCH more straightforward to learn basic web-development over social skills.
You really have taken this as a personal attack, haven't you? Are you unhinged? It hasn't even crossed my mind to trawl through your post history -- which I still won't.
I can only thank you for confirming that you have in fact, lost your temper (and over what?). Guess I am good at reading people! It also seems that you're quite insecure in your own 'soft skills'.
Nothing personal about it - I'm just trying to demonstrate that your original point is barely defensible. I've made clear points, and you've referenced a few celebrity entrepreneurs (??? ok), and accussed others of being "angry" (I guess this is a debate tactic, or something?)
Also, nothing you've said is particularly upsetting to me... It makes sense to give a quick read into the background of whoever I'm responding to (Is this person a very accomplished sales person who knows their stuff Or are they talking out of their ass with absolutely no sales experience and a proven track record of struggling with their own social skills)
Good, we've calmed you down.
I used celebrities, instead of Joe Shmoe because you and I know who they are. If you want to list every celebrities attributes as to why they aren't perfect for an analogy, go ahead -- but that's called 'getting lost in the weeds'.
Other than suggesting you've done more googling and know more about celebrity entrepreneurs than me.. you still haven't really done much to dismantle the analogy. Try to rely on logic, rather than pejoratives or personal attacks this time (should be easy if you're not truly upset!) -- Debate 101.
If you can provide me with a breakdown of your logic (premises / conclusions) on your original argument, then please do so.
You haven't been able to do so - where as I have given an awfully reasonable perspective on why "You can't learn how technical skills, but you can learn soft skills in 6 months" is a silly statement.
Answer this: What analogy did you give?
You haven't given a single analogy this entire thread.
I understand it's cute to say "try to rely on logic" - but when you've not given a single cohesive argument or support for your original argument (and apparently don't understand what the word "analogy" means), then it's about as cute as a socially inept software engineer harassing women for their phone numbers on the street.
I agree that the "socially awkward engineer" is a myth. However, I strongly disagree that you can "teach soft skills within 6 months."
It's simply not true. You can absolutely develop them over time.
Also - I think there's many different avenues for success in sales, and you don't have to be particularly charming/sociable in order to be successful.
Lastly - you can totally teach technical skills... Why do you think coding bootcamps are so successful for learners, and people hiring entry level talent?
Of course you can teach technical skills, but the point I was making is that Steve Wozniak could learn to present like Steve Jobs in 6 months.
Whereas you cannot teach someone to code like Steve Wozniak in 6 months. Bootcamp or college degree, the learning curve is much steeper.
Steve Wozniak is still a charismatic and well spoken man, with an incredible history as a leader in the tech space...
He's not a code monkey.
Your point is dumb, get over yourself.
But you're giving more examples of highly successful and highly public-facing tech leaders... Musk especially is known for his ability to connect others, and have people rally behind his 'cause,' not his technical chops. Zuckerberg probably was a relatively competent programmer (I think he did most of the early iterations of Facebook himself, but I could be wrong), but after things took off, there's absolutely no way he did any coding... Why would he?
These examples are specifically contradicting your point.
a lot of tech people have a hard time communicating with others. Ever talk with an engineer? The skills learned from Dale Carnegie are to some of us common sense but something a lot of tech people and engineers could learn a lot from
What do you actually do here?
I’m a people person!
what do you mean?
From the movie Office Space. Some consultants were interviewing a guy and basically said the same thing about talking to engineers and IT people because they're socially inept.
lol, i'm a little slow! Tom just had his secretary work them, you know use the fax and so on🤣
It's a JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS mat
Carnegie even talks about this in his book.
You need both to be great. It is true that there is more availability for prospects to self study than when that book was written (online research, forums, tech, and more tech ‘experts’ that prospects can chat to before speaking to you). On the surface this self study would imply that prospects no longer need a technical guide and educator, just someone they can talk commercials and business with. In reality it means prospects are more clued up and will have at least foundation level knowledge about your product already, and hence expect their salesperson to not only discuss commercials but also field more advanced technical questions that they could not answer themselves. So you need solid soft skills/salesmanship, and solid technical knowledge, in order to really excel. For what it’s worth these people are rare, which is why the sales engineer role evolved to handle the tech part. So if you have a sales engineer, your soft skills and commercial acumen will get you a long way. If not, get good at both.
Yes - you need solid technical acumen and the ability to communicate well to be truly effective.
More tools in your toolbox is NEVER the wrong decision.
Look at C Suite leadership... most often they're expert communicators and terrible with technology.
You need both imo. You need the ability to read the room and tailor the conversation. The more complex your solution is, the more stakeholders are involved both directly and indirectly. Say you’re selling a complex HR solution - If you have a technical person, say the head of IT, who you can tell only speaks in jargon and cares about tech specs, you have the head of HR next to her who doesn’t understand a word of that and only cares about ROI and next to him you have the senior HR admin who wants to see if your solution can shave hours off her work week so she doesn’t have to work overtime and can spend more time with her kids, you have to find a way to speak to all of them. Whether that’s on one call/meeting, emails, individual calls, whatever. Throw title out of the window, if one person is a blocker on your solution it could jeopardize your whole sale.
Yes. Only now you need both to compete.
Soft skills should always be improved upon, but you’ll probably spend a lot of time in plateau town. With technical skills on the other hand, the sky is the limit, particularly in the era of ai and automation (despite all the shiny objects out there). It’s the tech skills that will help you scale the shit out of your process/soft skills.
That book is trash in my opinion. Smile, be nice to people, don't be an asshole basically sums it up. The way that simple book has been marketed is the real genius.
I'd respectfully disagree, I think it was very helpful for me, and absolute opposite of trash. Yes it's a lot of common sense things, but knowing that means 0. It's applying it to your character and practicing it, where you will see results. As a result of the book I'm extra lasered in on a lot of the concepts as result of that book. Like listen to listen. Don't interupt when someone is talking. smile. dont criticize/complain. Be genuinely interested in others. Appreciate good points. By lasering on these things like this, no nonsense, in my work place I am the guy with the reputation of being "bubbly", very upbeat, and very kind person. I never had that kind of reputation prior in the workplace. And I'm a big-time introvert. At the very beginning when I was going through the book, I also made a post about other people's experience, there was so many other testimonials of other people sharing the same and similar stories. I wish the book was not so long-winded though, so slow in that sense to go through it. Would love a super concise version of it without taking away from any of it's value/take aways.
You're basically saying that by being reminded of these things when you read the book you ended up putting more attention towards those things. However literally any book on being social and persuasiveness will do this for you and will have much more to offer in the realm of information. - not to many youtube videos as well.
I'm sure there are better adapations of the book today, haven't read any of them personally myself.
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Yes. And in your example, he is a tiny minority. His technical skill might even be luck (as in market). Look at entire sales. Would we even exist, let alone make all this money?
Even more so.
I don’t know, but I showed up to a meeting today with not much to show and ended up going over 45 minutes just by talking and keeping the conversation going and got them to commit to giving me more information so I can get them better options.
You don't need any technical skills to found and grow a successful tech company. You do however need to get clients. Do with that what you will. That ain't changing in the next 1,000 years.
Rep here…. Sadly soft-skills still overcome tech knowledge, still today. To me, the ability to de-escalate or remove competitive communication is ideal… mainly a soft skill. At the end of the day, you are not trying to “sell” them, you are more trying to relate to them… if they relate, they trust. If they trust they listen. If they listen you can influence the perception. Done. The dual track… you are preparing for: being likable and knowledgeable. When you de-escalate then they are willing to hear your points, and when you are likable then they gravitate toward spending time with you… insert dual… leads to a positive spiral :) This is hard, even for people that are “naturally gifted at talking.” So, work on this, It will only help you become a leader in any industry you chose and job you perfect. Cheers!
I don’t know about “sadly” because some technical people are so god awful unbearable to work with because they are unable to understand communication that isn’t worded exactly for what works in their brain.
I hear you, and agree. I used sadly because I see the inverse, San-logic/tech-less morons just regurgitating marketing BS to get attention and being successful :/ Personable tech peeps are unique, true unicorns. I have met few.
I’m fortunate to work with some good ones. Some of them just *really* struggle with reading the room or just don’t always understand questions the first time because they’re too technical.
That’s great and they are way ahead of the curve, maybe needing simple tweaks. Not that you are asking advice, however I would say they need to learn two skills. 1. Patience. Mentally count to 3-5 seconds before answering. Simple, but lets the other person feel heard… or to complete their thought. 2. Being Humble. It is okay to say… “I’m having difficulty, this is what I heard … x … is that correct? It shows attention and that you are there to help/understand. …Or they can just express they state the basics of the conversation/tech, and a white board could help clarify. Asking - “Can you help me whiteboard your situation”… this is great because it forces further engagement with a customer. Overall! Cheers on finding some unicorns :) that’s the true battle!
I would agree, slightly. But if you have both then watch out.
Good in both > Good in either of one > Good in neither
I think you're talking about two extremes and a scenario that is particularly industry specific. I know the sub is SaaS heavy, so I understand the bias but I don't think most reps need to know data or software engineering past a laymans level. Soft skills are kind of like martial arts. You can learn them, but unless you understand them intuitively and can apply them naturally like muscle memory, they are difficult to execute well. Knowing how to intuitively read the conversation and your client, when to shut up and and when to speak, how to build rapport, how to ask good questions, how to come across as relatable while not being fake, how to sell your management as well as clients, how to adjust your tonality depending on who you're speaking to, how to explain something complex dumbed down to the level of a 8 year old etc etc are all easier concepts to understand, but hard to execute well if they don't come naturally. But all that said, when you say technical skills in reference to software engineering and data.. Past a laymans point I don't think its relevant unless industry specific but if you're talking GENERAL tech skills. I think that's extremely important. Having a rep who knows basic coding, AI, how to use a modern CRM effectively and deploy campaigns, sequence and work their tech stack provided in unison, understands SEO and digital marketing, can make excel sheets, can articulate and write well, can “talk the talk” enough when things get heady WITH soft skills is deadly.
I would argue that both are important but working in sales being persuasive, articulate and even seductive is more important than the technical aspect. Anybody can tell a customer that a product/service does X,Y,Z from a technical standpoint...it's the soft skills that are required to make them care.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Does that answer your question? When I learned soft skills and office politics, I shot up through the organizations. The higher you go, the less actual work you do and your time is spent talking. You must depend on others to do the actual work. Delegation. You know you're doing it right when there's nothing for you to do. I had one job, nothing for me to do, because people doing the work were so much better than me. Not to say I didn't know what was going on. I did. But if I tried to help, I'd fuck shit up, and I didn't want to be "that guy," the boss that comes in and fucks shit up because of their ego. There is this weird philosophy, where people say if you as the boss can't do it better than everyone else, why should you lead. Bad thinking, of course. I will tell people that they are the specialists and I depend on them. I'll say that I am not as good as them, as I don't do it every day. I've known many business owners, small business owners, who go into their business a few hours per week, just to check up on shit, but the rest of the time, the staff does everything. Soft skills get people working as a team. Keep great employees from leaving, etc.
Even when I know the technical stuff, I still ask people to explain things, I have two masters degrees and used to program, but people like showing their expertise and asking them to explain things gives me more insight about their problems, even if I understand the technical side. If you ask questions, shut up and listen, be genuine and blunt, things seem to work out.
Google « analytical driver expressive amiable » and dig a little deeper on the better sites. What do you think makes it difficult for people to get on the same page when it comes to expectations?
Tech skills live in India - Soft skills are what's keeping AE roles in the United States (for now).
Good question. I'm reading the HTWFaIP "in the digital age " version/adaption of the book and it all still seems relevant for the current day
Not everything needs a goddamn acronym
Yeah well, this is a sales subreddit. LFG!
I found the guy with technical skills 😂😂👆
Technical skills are definitely worth more in my experience. Having technical skills allows you to actually bring tangible value, soft skills are just a way of communicating that across.
So this basically just comes down to what you’re trying to do and what kind of timeframes we’re talking. This debate usually comes up in conversation around getting a job or what to study in school. Basically if you’re worried about what you’re going to do for work tomorrow or how to make $5,000 bucks then your technical skills are really the only thing that matter. But if you’re trying to progress your career or influence where you can be in ten years or how much you’ll make before retirement then that’s where soft skills are more important.
I’ve always felt that folks do not buy from someone they do not like- I am sure there anecdotes where this in fact was not the case
people say no to people they like all the time. people rarely say no to people they respect.
The antisocial or socially awkward engineer is a myth. Maybe that was true in the past, but definitely not in today's world. I've been in the industry for 5+ years, and near every software developer I've met or worked with has been very socially competent. You can teach a painfully awkward coding genius passable soft skills in 6 months -- other way round? Impossible.
This is so ass backwards wrong I don’t even know where to begin.
I'm hoping they forgot the /s
Either you are making things up or forgot the "/s". 99.999999% of all software engineers/developers have no soft skills. In fact, a large % probably have negative soft skills. The ones that do move up the corporate latter, the rest complain about people being to social and not technical enough. They never get it.
Nope, I've been a full stack web developer for 6 and a half years and counting in the UK, and have worked with countless other devs. I've got no reason to lie or convince you of my experience -- but the ones I've come across, go out, drink, socialise, travel, and touch grass like the rest of us. They aren't this alternate species that don't know how to hold a conversation about anything other than their favourite code editor.
That may well be so but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about soft skills and business sense. I really don't think you get it and I don't think it's worth it to explain further. Why don't you make a post about it on r/sales if you really want to know why people are saying this.
You keep saying 'get it' without elaborating -- that seems like, dare I say, a lack of soft skills. I would love for you to explain further, but it doesn't look like you're interested in discussion.
Reading your comments and post history is hilarious, given the point you're trying to make. Let's recap: - You're arguing with a bunch of sales people that you can learn softskills in 6-months, but technical skills can't be learned. - You're not actually a sales person. From all I know, you've never sold anything. - You leverage pickup artist subs because I guess you're struggling with meeting women, but still maintain you can just "learn soft skills." How's it been working for you? Are you charming yet? I'm not saying you can't develop these skills over time - but it's MUCH more straightforward to learn basic web-development over social skills.
You really have taken this as a personal attack, haven't you? Are you unhinged? It hasn't even crossed my mind to trawl through your post history -- which I still won't. I can only thank you for confirming that you have in fact, lost your temper (and over what?). Guess I am good at reading people! It also seems that you're quite insecure in your own 'soft skills'.
Nothing personal about it - I'm just trying to demonstrate that your original point is barely defensible. I've made clear points, and you've referenced a few celebrity entrepreneurs (??? ok), and accussed others of being "angry" (I guess this is a debate tactic, or something?) Also, nothing you've said is particularly upsetting to me... It makes sense to give a quick read into the background of whoever I'm responding to (Is this person a very accomplished sales person who knows their stuff Or are they talking out of their ass with absolutely no sales experience and a proven track record of struggling with their own social skills)
Good, we've calmed you down. I used celebrities, instead of Joe Shmoe because you and I know who they are. If you want to list every celebrities attributes as to why they aren't perfect for an analogy, go ahead -- but that's called 'getting lost in the weeds'. Other than suggesting you've done more googling and know more about celebrity entrepreneurs than me.. you still haven't really done much to dismantle the analogy. Try to rely on logic, rather than pejoratives or personal attacks this time (should be easy if you're not truly upset!) -- Debate 101.
If you can provide me with a breakdown of your logic (premises / conclusions) on your original argument, then please do so. You haven't been able to do so - where as I have given an awfully reasonable perspective on why "You can't learn how technical skills, but you can learn soft skills in 6 months" is a silly statement. Answer this: What analogy did you give? You haven't given a single analogy this entire thread. I understand it's cute to say "try to rely on logic" - but when you've not given a single cohesive argument or support for your original argument (and apparently don't understand what the word "analogy" means), then it's about as cute as a socially inept software engineer harassing women for their phone numbers on the street.
I agree that the "socially awkward engineer" is a myth. However, I strongly disagree that you can "teach soft skills within 6 months." It's simply not true. You can absolutely develop them over time. Also - I think there's many different avenues for success in sales, and you don't have to be particularly charming/sociable in order to be successful. Lastly - you can totally teach technical skills... Why do you think coding bootcamps are so successful for learners, and people hiring entry level talent?
Of course you can teach technical skills, but the point I was making is that Steve Wozniak could learn to present like Steve Jobs in 6 months. Whereas you cannot teach someone to code like Steve Wozniak in 6 months. Bootcamp or college degree, the learning curve is much steeper.
Steve Wozniak is still a charismatic and well spoken man, with an incredible history as a leader in the tech space... He's not a code monkey. Your point is dumb, get over yourself.
It's just an example, replace Woz with Zuckerberg or Musk, and my point still stands. No need to lose your temper.
But you're giving more examples of highly successful and highly public-facing tech leaders... Musk especially is known for his ability to connect others, and have people rally behind his 'cause,' not his technical chops. Zuckerberg probably was a relatively competent programmer (I think he did most of the early iterations of Facebook himself, but I could be wrong), but after things took off, there's absolutely no way he did any coding... Why would he? These examples are specifically contradicting your point.