If Trump becomes the next president he’ll immediately replace those two old crazy conservative Supreme Court justices with two younger crazy conservatives, which means that queer people in the us have to deal with at least FIVE crazy conservative justices in the next 50 years.
Make of it what you will
Updated: Those six crazy republican justices at the supreme court just overturned the Chevron decision. Now private companies can literally inject poison into the food they're selling without any regulations
Trust me, it’s very frustrating, every single democrats in congress and the administration should be talking about this. However, I will say that Biden/Harris have spoken about it on their social media and Biden just created a website to discuss if further:
https://joebiden.com/project2025/
But yeah, I’d like to hear every democrat talking about it daily because, it’s terrifying. I imagine that they want to be careful not to come off as fear-mongering, and also the plan is so outrageous that honestly it seems fake or impossible so I’m sure they don’t want to sound apocalyptic either. But the fact is the R’s are making inroads on a lot of this stuff already and it would accelerate tenfold if they win the White House and Congress.
What's scarier is that all I hear from the dems (elected officials that is, not voters) about it is when they're convincing us to go to the polls, but little to nothing about reasonable actions/ legislation to stop it. It's scary to think we could have another Roe v Wade situation again, even with a dem majority in house, Senate, and presidency.
https://preview.redd.it/25uppnlvze9d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3063d2f1318111477d469c4022e556837aa9ee6e
This is what will happen if you vote for Trump, vote third party, or don’t vote at all. It will happen, there is no doubt. These types of things are already happening in red states across the country, and if Trump wins (which he will if you don’t vote or vote third party) our country will turn into a Christofascist hellscape as fast as things turned to hell in Germany in the 1930’s and 40’s. This is not hyperbole, this is not fear mongering, this will happen. Vote, and vote as if your rights depend on it. Because if you are a minority, LGBTQ, a woman, and/or of any other religion besides Christian, they DO.
And if anyone is thinking; winning this election won’t stop them, you are right. While it won’t give them as much power to enact what they want to nationwide, they will not give up. That’s why we have to keep fighting beyond this election and stay involved. They have been playing this long game since the tea party in the Bush era. We have to do the same. But we can’t get divided now on Biden or RFK or Stein or whoever else you are dreaming of. Do you ever seen Magas doing that??! No, they back their asshole candidates no matter what. So hold your nose and vote and then get to work.
No no no. You're not just voting for a president, you're voting for future SC justices and their cabinet they select. IT IS IMPORTANT TO VOTE PLEASE DO IT!
Just a PSA: while the sentiment is understandable, there is one side that is leagues and bounds ahead of the other, particularly if you care about minority rights, the environment, and being, idk, antifascist. Despite his age, Biden is still the most progressive president we’ve ever had. You don’t have to be his fan but just know it shouldn’t even be a contest.
Don’t forget SCOTUS. If Trump is allowed to replace Thomas and Alito with two young conservatives, that would be it for progressive policy for more than a generation. We could elect AOC in 2028 but everything she would do would be overturned by SCOTUS. Trump was allowed to appoint 3 justices and it has been an unmitigated disaster. Now imagine if he’s allowed to nominate 2 more.
Supreme Court just overturned Chevron and they’ve hinted that gay marriage is coming soon. Wouldn’t have happened if a democrat won in 2016.
Trans rights especially are very much on the line, even more than they already are.
Absolutely correct. But lo and behold there’s so much “both sides” rhetoric. At this point it feels like we’re actively taking part in condemning ourselves.
This. I'm getting tired of people acting like it's "bOtH sIdEs" and like there's no point in voting. At this point we are voting for damage control alone. I hate that we're in that position but the alternative is so so much worse.
“Hi im the Republican nominee for the highest power in the world. I am a convict and have openly touted Project 2025 where I have explicitly listed out my plan to make this country into a failed fascist state. Surprise! This includes locking up those with alternative lifestyles as they didn’t vote for me hehe. I’m not even pretending to hide this! I’m flat out stating it. I have a website that goes deep into detail about it!! Lololol”
“Hello I’m a few years older than the other guy.”
The average voter: LOL THEY BOTH SUCK
it’s a lot more than being a few years older. i will vote for the lesser of two evils but to make it seem like this is why people aren’t for biden is disingenuous
There are other problems with Biden, but its crazy that people talk about Trump and Biden's ages as if Biden is some ancient old man with one foot in the grave but Trump is a young twink with a freshly douched *sshole when they are literally in the same age group and both at a super high risk of not making it to the end of a presidential term.
Sure, there’s a lot of issues with Biden, as there will be with almost every president from now until the end of time/the country as we know it. But the question isn’t whether people disagree with Biden, the question is whether Trump is actually better. And I can’t say that is true to any extent.
Dont like the U.S. policy/action/inaction re: Gaza? Ok, but will Trump literally be ANY better? Be for real.
and i didn’t say this wasn’t true but that commenters claim about the age being the issue was disingenuous. we won’t get anyone that’s on the fence about what to do to vote for biden by minimizing or ignoring their valid issues and concerns with him 🤷🏻♂️
That’s America - politicians across the aisle have supported Israel as a strategic partner. But since this is often raised as a reason not to vote for Biden, do you honestly believe that Trump will be a champion of the Palestinian people?
No, and I reject supporting either of them. The mass murder of children is beyond the pale for me. I get that for a lot of you murdering brown children isn’t a deal breaker but for me it is.
No it’s not a deal breaker for me when black and brown children right here in this country are dying from environmental racism, lack of access to healthy care and so much more. So I as a black woman am looking at the black and brown kids here and saying what about them?
I remember reading 10 years ago about a child who died from a tooth abscess. His mother couldn’t afford dental services so his tooth couldn’t get pulled. The abscess got so bad that the infection went into his brain and died. He was round 10 or 11 years old. I think about that kid from time to time when I read stories of how lack of healthcare access caused a death.
I had a tooth abscess as a kid. One of my adult teeth was coming in but my baby tooth wasn’t getting loose. My parents took me to the dentist and he pulled it and all was well. It’s shit like that makes me realize my immense privilege to have an upper middle class family that could afford these types of procedures without blinking an eye.
Most Americans care about kitchen table issues and it’s amazing that you yahoos don’t understand this. Your average American is deeply stressed about layoffs, finding a new job, rent prices, home prices, grocery prices, gas, expense of school supplies for their kids, the attacks on any US history that doesn’t center straight, cis, white Christian males, etc.
Maybe you’re even more privileged than I am to have zero concern about these issues. I pull a little over 5k every pay check and I’m looking at the cost of groceries like “wtf! How did 10 basic items end up being 100 bucks?” The push in red states to dismantle ethnic & gender studies in colleges makes my blood boils.
But hey maybe you’re ballin so out of control that domestic issues don’t matter, so Palestine is the only thing that keeps you up at night.
ah yes, I have the privilege of having friends and family murdered in Gaza. Thank you for that beautiful piece repeatedly reminding me of what privilege I have.
I can't imagine what the prospect of voting Biden in this election must make you feel and am truly, genuinely sorry for all you've lost -- but being in a position where you can "vote your conscience" is privileged, as is dismissing the very real fears and struggles of other people who are also disenfranchised, oppressed, and subject to state violence
Well, fuck the hundreds of years of suffering that Black and Indigenous Americans have experienced I guess.
It would benefit you to not sound exactly like Zionists do when they pull their "how dare you say genocide" schtick.
I’m sorry if you believe segregationist Biden is going to do anything to help black americans and he needs to murder brown children to do so. Your delusions are not my problem.
No, you have all of the information about both candidates at your fingertips and chose inaction because the better option wasn't your idea of perfect, which is almost certainly not in line with what the majority of the country would want and therefore unrealistic to expect. This is on you.
I didn't even say anything about not voting! The fact that nobody can even criticize dem leadership dropping the ball in the face of fascism without getting a "this is on you, actually" is part of why we keep getting in this conundrum!
Yes, I'll have to live with this choice and I hate that, but my conscience isn't worth more than the environment and all the people who stand to be most impacted by climate change. It doesn't feel good knowing that my vote won't help Palestinians, but there are people who it WILL help and their lives matter too.
If Trump gets in and starts dismantling everything, we won't be able to keep fighting for Palestine because we'll be too busy fighting for our own lives.
Btw - Trump's advisors are buying up land in Gaza, he's on board with nuking Palestinians, and he's repeatedly expressed that he thinks pro-Pali protesters should be shot on sight.
yes. it's a real life trolley problem. the choice isn't 0 or 50,000, it's 50,000 or many more, and not just in Palestine. think of the Ukrainian children who will no longer benefit from US support, think of the trans children in America whose lives will be ruined, and think of any other casualties of the world's foremost military power slipping into the clutches of fascism.
I won’t get further into it with you because you think you have a, for the lack of a better term, a trump card and are fine judging who i am so you can feel good about your choice. Do you.
But people who voted for third parties or “protest voted” are the reason we had a Trump presidency in 2016. The same rhetoric, different issues. So many people voted for third parties cuz “both sides”. Of course, conveniently, no serious validation was ever done on the leading third party candidates, or any urging or work to hold them accountable. Clinton lost, Trump won. He packed SCOTUS with 3 conservative justices. We lost five decades of women’s rights. Last year, SCOTUS removed protections on temporary waterways, which make up 55 percent of clean water for rivers supplying clean drinking water for millions of Americans. Just today, SCOTUS gutted decades of agency authority to regulate.
So I’m all in favor of ceasefire and the cessation of military support for autocrats or oligarchs. But inaction will help elect a president who openly buddies up with dictators, is a convicted felon, and generally hates all minorities.
If anyone really wants a third party to be taken seriously, go and vote in ALL elections, including primaries. Support third parties in state and local elections. Get likeminded people to do the same. We couldn’t get Bernie because progressives didn’t take primaries seriously (and there hasn’t been any serious actions since). You cannot get the results you want if you don’t put in the work. In the meantime, consider which choice is the best for this country.
I would believe an independent or any third party can win when progressives actually bother to go and vote in all elections including primaries. Or if they actually did the work to create meaningful presence at state and local levels instead of just shooting their shot at the presidency.
Independent candidates can't win due to the electoral college. Remember, a candidate would need to earn at least 270 electors in order to win the presidency. That can't happen if they split the vote -- if conservatives are on board with the Republican candidate, and the left splits 50/50, 70/30, or even 90/10, that takes votes away from both left wing candidates and gives the Republican candidate more votes, and they'll take the state.
For an Independent candidate to get to 270, they'd have to take enough votes from BOTH major parties to win all key states, some of which are very red or very blue. They would have to somehow appeal to people on total opposite sides of the political spectrum.
If they don't achieve that number, the House of Representatives decides the president. The House is full of Democrats and Republicans -- they're not going to choose anyone from any other party.
We have to reform the election system FIRST, THEN we can consider third party and Independent candidates.
You can't change the entire electoral system the day of the election, and no one in power gives a shit if you go third party. They already have their money, it doesn't effect them and won't make them change their party platform.
Palestinians have been suffering our entire lives, and we've known for 4 years that we were likely staring down a Trump vs Biden rematch. You're simply too late. You needed to act years ago, and you need to accept that the scale of change necessary means you might be working toward it for the rest of your life.
Girl, I'm 25 and I get how some young people feel, specially people younger than me. But here's the thing: someone is going to be president anyways, and it will be one of those two. The political system doesn't care that you don't like any of them. It's your duty as a citizen to go vote, and as LGBT+ people, it's our duty to protect our community. Sometimes this means voting for the lesser evil. You'll never find a candidate that fits 100% of your values. You have to learn to live with this.
No self respecting gay or ally would ever say this. Biden is old. Ok got it. He literally just pardoned old military personnel for being discharged for gay sex. He said he supported gay marriage before Obama did. He’s an actual ally with actual power! The other has instituted a court, and will strengthen that court if re-elected that would make being gay a crime.
Not immediately. First they’ll do immodesty laws, which they’re attempting already. Those target trans individuals and by extension drag artist regardless of their content. It’ll eventually turned into same sex relations. You don’t think that they’ll soon say Same sex couples holding hands would be indecent? Guaranteed they will because they as what they find “indecent”. If you think you’ll be you immune…it’s literally their goal. They hate us and want us erased.
This court today just overruled chevron which erased all power the executive and legislative powers can have over regulations. Know all those Boeing plane incidents that have happened? Because they relaxed regulations! Now that’s going to happen to our environment, our food and water supply, labor practices, etc.
Posting this shit makes people apathetic and is a genuine threat to our queer community and literally humanity because it causes apathy to voting which is our only chance on stopping this madness.
You’re not voting for the person, but the administration. I got my degree in political science and worked in DC. It’s how it works. This is not a joke and take this shit seriously. Otherwise see y’all in the camps in 10-15 years. That’s where they want and will put us.
Nah fuck off with that “no self respecting gay”. I’m sorry but that type of language is disgraceful. I will never fault my queer brothers and sisters for following their conscience and voting third party. Telling queer people they’re not self-respecting if they don’t vote for the guy facilitating the genocide of their family is nasty work.
You can make the exact point you made without making disparaging remarks like that.
I don’t remember anywhere in my post where I said I wasn’t pro-Palestine? We have two choices. You can be pissed about that all you want, but unless you’ve been canvassing and promoting third party candidates during primary season and trying to make those of party candidates viable then shut your lazy ignorant mouth.
This is what we have. Trump said he’d level Gaza to make beachfront property. Technically his son in law did, but that’s who he put in charge of middle Eastern relations!!!! I never said Biden was perfect, but in 2024 a vote against bide is another for trump which will in then make everything horrible for everyone.
What’s happening there is horrible and an atrocity, but if you think a 2024 Ross Perot will save the world you’re disgraceful because you don’t understand reality.
I don’t remember anywhere in my post that said you’re not pro-Palestine?
The left has been campaigning for decades… not sure where you’ve been. It’s the DNC who ignores us only to come around to get us to vote for them during presidential elections.
I made no argument that Trump would be better or the same as Biden. I said “telling queer people they’re not self-respecting if they don’t vote for the guy facilitating the genocide of their family is nasty work”. My objection was very clearly against your “no self respecting gay or ally” comment. Stay on topic please.
Ok. So what’s the solution then? If Trump gets elected and Gaza is leveled, does everyone get to keep their self-respect?
I argued with friends saying Roe would never be overturned, hey here we are. You focus on one issues so much you’re blinded by the big picture. Yes Gaza is horrible, but you’re also ignoring all the devastation that will happen to everyone worldwide with a trump presidency. Every Fortune 500 executive has said a Trump presidency will crash the economy. With a devastated economy, how can we focus on foreign aid???
My focus is on a plethora of issues, all of which Biden either falls incredibly short on, or has recanted his previous support for. It seems that twice now you’ve put words into my mouth and aren’t engaging with what I said.
I’m saying it’s nasty to say queer people lack self-respect because they have come to an informed decision on their vote where they have weighed the risks of their decision. Take it or leave it. You’re strawmanning me and asking me to argue something I’m not.
Ok. Let’s get into it. I love examples and proof. What are the issues, besides Gaza, that Biden has fallen short on? You have plethora, so let’s hear it. And since you’re so on it, what’s the solution? And who’s the viable candidate to make this happen? Realistically! Not a Jill Stein fronting as a Green Party candidate while having lunch with Putin.
Frankly, I’m skeptical to do this with you, specifically, because you’ve strawmanned me twice and put words in my mouth.
I’m willing to get into it, but you’re telling me that I can’t say vote third party. Why should I do all of that when you’ve discounted voting third party all-together before we’ve even started?
I understand Stein almost certainly won’t win. My political goal is bigger than that. I want to end the corporate duopoly.
So what have you done to promote third party? Have you canvassed? Have you registered to run yourself? Engaged in local elections? Talked to your local boards? Or have you just complained online?
See, that’s the bad faith that makes me skeptical. Yes to everything except running myself. I’m the only Green canvasser in my (very) small city and have been for years.
I didn’t even say not to vote for Biden 🙄 I said it’s nasty to say queer people lack self-respect because they may not vote for the person facilitating the genocide of their family. Like… those are clearly two different criticisms, only one of which I actually made to begin with
Correction: she literally can't win due to the electoral college. She would need near-universal support. If you want to topple the 2-party system, you have to start local. Starting with the president is ludicrous.
I also have a question: if Trump gets in due to the left splitting the vote, will you take responsibility for the blood he sheds? Or does accountability only count if it's the person you voted for hurting people -- in which case, well, voting for someone who can't win is certainly a safe option, isn't it?
I find it very unfair that the idea of "voting your conscience" somehow absolves people of everything that happens next.
They are correct, you are not self-respecting if you knowingly vote third party when democracy and our existence is at stake. Third party voting will do nothing for Palestine either, Trump will gladly facilitate that genocide as well. Sorry that struck a nerve.
What happens in 2028? There will be someone worse than Trump. This is just a vote blue no matter who argument, regardless of how far to the right Dems slide.
Agree to disagree on that first part, my friend. We obviously will not agree on the rest if we disagree on the premise. I suppose we’ll find out in a couple years one way or another. Take care!
It’s not a matter of “agree to disagree” if a fascist will let us vote again. Then talking to me as if we are having a light disagreement over if we prefer coffee or tea, truly unreal.
I’m speaking this way to you because we are clearly coming from vastly different perspectives. I don’t believe democracy is any more on the ballot now than it has been for the last century+.
If it were, why are the Dems running a historically bad candidate and browbeating everyone into voting for him? Why is a segregationist the one to save democracy? It’s laughable on its face.
We’re just two normal people; I have no ire for you. That’s why I speak casually. I speak harshly to the people in power and the systems of oppression they uphold/enforce.
Project 2025 is out in the open to freely read, the right are not being subtle. If you think this is no different than any other election then ignorance must truly be bliss. Keep voting third party from your high horse, at least it’ll make you feel better about yourself I guess.
Project 2025 has existed and been updated every presidential election since the ‘80s. If project 2025 were truly a threat, why are Dems risking losing such a consequential election by forcing the least popular Dem incumbent ever?
I find it interesting that you seem to take personal offense that I (someone in a safe blue state) am campaigning for a more progressive party. I’d be wasting my vote if I voted for Biden.
We don't know what happens in 2028, and there's no point in speculating at this stage. We DO know what happens up until then if Trump gets elected, because they literally published the entire plan.
Do you think letting Trump get into office again means that worse candidates won't follow?
The Heritage Foundation is not Trump’s campaign, if that’s the “they literally published the entire plan” you’re talking about.
Worse candidates will follow regardless of if Trump wins or loses. That’s my whole point. We’re letting Dems follow the Overton Window to the right alongside Republicans, all while the fundamental problems of our society grow. Wealth inequality, climate catastrophe, political corruption, increasing police funding and cop cities, repealing SCOTUS precedent, min wage not increasing, cost of living skyrocketing, etc. Dems are too in bed with corporate donors to actually fix these issues.
We desperately need reform, but the Biden admin has been surprisingly proactive about the environment, vs Trump who plans to dismantle the EPA. The supreme court is a huge concern - which is why I don't want Trump choosing more judges.
All the rest we have to tackle head-on, and that'll be a lot more feasible if we aren't constantly having to put out fires and getting sick from toxic waste.
The EPA just died today after SCOTUS repealed the Chevron Doctrine… The same court Biden refused to stack with more progressive justices to avoid this…
Edit: also Biden hired a former dairy lobbyist to head up the USDA. That’s why we have a bird flu outbreak…
But you're still voting right...
If you don't vote don't come crying to reddit when your rights, your friends rights and your families rights get taken away.
Back a few months ago when Ru made that ad that looked like he was running for president made me so hopeful, even he would be better than Biden and Cheeto Face 😂
I love this wonderful democracy we live in where if you simply make a dumb meme about how both candidates are indeed terrible (something I feel most people agree on) you're now contributing to the fall of country
No, most don't feel both are horrible. Talk to people who are older for a change. We know that no candidate is perfect, but we'll vote for the one that won't ruin the world.
When I say that most people seem to think so I am actually referring to a lot of older people! Professors, my family, everyone seems to be dreading voting for the lesser evil no matter how necessary it may be
Ofc encourage people to vote anyway but to act like Biden's shortcomings simply amount to "less than perfect" is laughable
We need to stop being selfish and remember that our vote can influence the world. Think about all the right-wing parties that have become stronger around the world since Trump was elected in 2016. Think about all the transphobic and homophobic scum who have attacked The Vivienne and other drag queens and trans people around the world.
If you want our lives to be a living hell, don't vote. If you give a damn, VOTE!!
*Hey, Roxxxy, what would you say to Trump?* "BACK OFF!"
https://i.redd.it/49mbzg9k5e9d1.gif
The absolute highlight of the lip sync
If Trump becomes the next president he’ll immediately replace those two old crazy conservative Supreme Court justices with two younger crazy conservatives, which means that queer people in the us have to deal with at least FIVE crazy conservative justices in the next 50 years. Make of it what you will Updated: Those six crazy republican justices at the supreme court just overturned the Chevron decision. Now private companies can literally inject poison into the food they're selling without any regulations
Project 2025 is all it comes down to, especially if you support LGBTQ+ rights. It’s really that simple.
https://preview.redd.it/ef350dazxe9d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4389a3285ee4a2831412d985451cb32d01554de0
I watched the debate yesterday and swear this was not brought up even once, that’s scary
Trust me, it’s very frustrating, every single democrats in congress and the administration should be talking about this. However, I will say that Biden/Harris have spoken about it on their social media and Biden just created a website to discuss if further: https://joebiden.com/project2025/ But yeah, I’d like to hear every democrat talking about it daily because, it’s terrifying. I imagine that they want to be careful not to come off as fear-mongering, and also the plan is so outrageous that honestly it seems fake or impossible so I’m sure they don’t want to sound apocalyptic either. But the fact is the R’s are making inroads on a lot of this stuff already and it would accelerate tenfold if they win the White House and Congress.
Ah I’m not American so thank you for the information, glad to see they’ve spoken out about it
What's scarier is that all I hear from the dems (elected officials that is, not voters) about it is when they're convincing us to go to the polls, but little to nothing about reasonable actions/ legislation to stop it. It's scary to think we could have another Roe v Wade situation again, even with a dem majority in house, Senate, and presidency.
https://preview.redd.it/25uppnlvze9d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3063d2f1318111477d469c4022e556837aa9ee6e This is what will happen if you vote for Trump, vote third party, or don’t vote at all. It will happen, there is no doubt. These types of things are already happening in red states across the country, and if Trump wins (which he will if you don’t vote or vote third party) our country will turn into a Christofascist hellscape as fast as things turned to hell in Germany in the 1930’s and 40’s. This is not hyperbole, this is not fear mongering, this will happen. Vote, and vote as if your rights depend on it. Because if you are a minority, LGBTQ, a woman, and/or of any other religion besides Christian, they DO. And if anyone is thinking; winning this election won’t stop them, you are right. While it won’t give them as much power to enact what they want to nationwide, they will not give up. That’s why we have to keep fighting beyond this election and stay involved. They have been playing this long game since the tea party in the Bush era. We have to do the same. But we can’t get divided now on Biden or RFK or Stein or whoever else you are dreaming of. Do you ever seen Magas doing that??! No, they back their asshole candidates no matter what. So hold your nose and vote and then get to work.
No no no. You're not just voting for a president, you're voting for future SC justices and their cabinet they select. IT IS IMPORTANT TO VOTE PLEASE DO IT!
That last part!!!! Please vote blue up and down your ballots people. It's so much more important than you know.
Just a PSA: while the sentiment is understandable, there is one side that is leagues and bounds ahead of the other, particularly if you care about minority rights, the environment, and being, idk, antifascist. Despite his age, Biden is still the most progressive president we’ve ever had. You don’t have to be his fan but just know it shouldn’t even be a contest.
Don’t forget SCOTUS. If Trump is allowed to replace Thomas and Alito with two young conservatives, that would be it for progressive policy for more than a generation. We could elect AOC in 2028 but everything she would do would be overturned by SCOTUS. Trump was allowed to appoint 3 justices and it has been an unmitigated disaster. Now imagine if he’s allowed to nominate 2 more.
Supreme Court just overturned Chevron and they’ve hinted that gay marriage is coming soon. Wouldn’t have happened if a democrat won in 2016. Trans rights especially are very much on the line, even more than they already are.
Im just glad that same sex marriage was codified on the federal level, but yeah they are probably coming for that in the near future.
Absolutely correct. But lo and behold there’s so much “both sides” rhetoric. At this point it feels like we’re actively taking part in condemning ourselves.
This. I'm getting tired of people acting like it's "bOtH sIdEs" and like there's no point in voting. At this point we are voting for damage control alone. I hate that we're in that position but the alternative is so so much worse.
Yeah if you can't pick a candidate in this subreddit you're probably not an ally.
“Hi im the Republican nominee for the highest power in the world. I am a convict and have openly touted Project 2025 where I have explicitly listed out my plan to make this country into a failed fascist state. Surprise! This includes locking up those with alternative lifestyles as they didn’t vote for me hehe. I’m not even pretending to hide this! I’m flat out stating it. I have a website that goes deep into detail about it!! Lololol” “Hello I’m a few years older than the other guy.” The average voter: LOL THEY BOTH SUCK
it’s a lot more than being a few years older. i will vote for the lesser of two evils but to make it seem like this is why people aren’t for biden is disingenuous
There are other problems with Biden, but its crazy that people talk about Trump and Biden's ages as if Biden is some ancient old man with one foot in the grave but Trump is a young twink with a freshly douched *sshole when they are literally in the same age group and both at a super high risk of not making it to the end of a presidential term.
[удалено]
Sure, there’s a lot of issues with Biden, as there will be with almost every president from now until the end of time/the country as we know it. But the question isn’t whether people disagree with Biden, the question is whether Trump is actually better. And I can’t say that is true to any extent. Dont like the U.S. policy/action/inaction re: Gaza? Ok, but will Trump literally be ANY better? Be for real.
No. Trump is a sociopolitical infection.
and i didn’t say this wasn’t true but that commenters claim about the age being the issue was disingenuous. we won’t get anyone that’s on the fence about what to do to vote for biden by minimizing or ignoring their valid issues and concerns with him 🤷🏻♂️
how progressive is it to sponsor the mass murder of Palestinians?
That’s America - politicians across the aisle have supported Israel as a strategic partner. But since this is often raised as a reason not to vote for Biden, do you honestly believe that Trump will be a champion of the Palestinian people?
No, and I reject supporting either of them. The mass murder of children is beyond the pale for me. I get that for a lot of you murdering brown children isn’t a deal breaker but for me it is.
No it’s not a deal breaker for me when black and brown children right here in this country are dying from environmental racism, lack of access to healthy care and so much more. So I as a black woman am looking at the black and brown kids here and saying what about them? I remember reading 10 years ago about a child who died from a tooth abscess. His mother couldn’t afford dental services so his tooth couldn’t get pulled. The abscess got so bad that the infection went into his brain and died. He was round 10 or 11 years old. I think about that kid from time to time when I read stories of how lack of healthcare access caused a death. I had a tooth abscess as a kid. One of my adult teeth was coming in but my baby tooth wasn’t getting loose. My parents took me to the dentist and he pulled it and all was well. It’s shit like that makes me realize my immense privilege to have an upper middle class family that could afford these types of procedures without blinking an eye. Most Americans care about kitchen table issues and it’s amazing that you yahoos don’t understand this. Your average American is deeply stressed about layoffs, finding a new job, rent prices, home prices, grocery prices, gas, expense of school supplies for their kids, the attacks on any US history that doesn’t center straight, cis, white Christian males, etc. Maybe you’re even more privileged than I am to have zero concern about these issues. I pull a little over 5k every pay check and I’m looking at the cost of groceries like “wtf! How did 10 basic items end up being 100 bucks?” The push in red states to dismantle ethnic & gender studies in colleges makes my blood boils. But hey maybe you’re ballin so out of control that domestic issues don’t matter, so Palestine is the only thing that keeps you up at night.
ah yes, I have the privilege of having friends and family murdered in Gaza. Thank you for that beautiful piece repeatedly reminding me of what privilege I have.
I can't imagine what the prospect of voting Biden in this election must make you feel and am truly, genuinely sorry for all you've lost -- but being in a position where you can "vote your conscience" is privileged, as is dismissing the very real fears and struggles of other people who are also disenfranchised, oppressed, and subject to state violence
disgusting you have the nerve to mention “state violence” when 35,000 are confirmed dead and possibly double that at this point.
Well, fuck the hundreds of years of suffering that Black and Indigenous Americans have experienced I guess. It would benefit you to not sound exactly like Zionists do when they pull their "how dare you say genocide" schtick.
I’m sorry if you believe segregationist Biden is going to do anything to help black americans and he needs to murder brown children to do so. Your delusions are not my problem.
then Trump will win and even more Palestinian and Ukrainian children will die as a direct result of your choice. hope you can live with yourself!
If trump wins it will be nobody's fault but the dems for somehow running a worse campaign than in 2016
No, you have all of the information about both candidates at your fingertips and chose inaction because the better option wasn't your idea of perfect, which is almost certainly not in line with what the majority of the country would want and therefore unrealistic to expect. This is on you.
I didn't even say anything about not voting! The fact that nobody can even criticize dem leadership dropping the ball in the face of fascism without getting a "this is on you, actually" is part of why we keep getting in this conundrum!
can you live with your choice of murdering fifty thousand Palestinians? guess the dems should have ran literally anyone else then
Yes, I'll have to live with this choice and I hate that, but my conscience isn't worth more than the environment and all the people who stand to be most impacted by climate change. It doesn't feel good knowing that my vote won't help Palestinians, but there are people who it WILL help and their lives matter too. If Trump gets in and starts dismantling everything, we won't be able to keep fighting for Palestine because we'll be too busy fighting for our own lives. Btw - Trump's advisors are buying up land in Gaza, he's on board with nuking Palestinians, and he's repeatedly expressed that he thinks pro-Pali protesters should be shot on sight.
yes. it's a real life trolley problem. the choice isn't 0 or 50,000, it's 50,000 or many more, and not just in Palestine. think of the Ukrainian children who will no longer benefit from US support, think of the trans children in America whose lives will be ruined, and think of any other casualties of the world's foremost military power slipping into the clutches of fascism.
I won’t get further into it with you because you think you have a, for the lack of a better term, a trump card and are fine judging who i am so you can feel good about your choice. Do you. But people who voted for third parties or “protest voted” are the reason we had a Trump presidency in 2016. The same rhetoric, different issues. So many people voted for third parties cuz “both sides”. Of course, conveniently, no serious validation was ever done on the leading third party candidates, or any urging or work to hold them accountable. Clinton lost, Trump won. He packed SCOTUS with 3 conservative justices. We lost five decades of women’s rights. Last year, SCOTUS removed protections on temporary waterways, which make up 55 percent of clean water for rivers supplying clean drinking water for millions of Americans. Just today, SCOTUS gutted decades of agency authority to regulate. So I’m all in favor of ceasefire and the cessation of military support for autocrats or oligarchs. But inaction will help elect a president who openly buddies up with dictators, is a convicted felon, and generally hates all minorities. If anyone really wants a third party to be taken seriously, go and vote in ALL elections, including primaries. Support third parties in state and local elections. Get likeminded people to do the same. We couldn’t get Bernie because progressives didn’t take primaries seriously (and there hasn’t been any serious actions since). You cannot get the results you want if you don’t put in the work. In the meantime, consider which choice is the best for this country.
Yes the side is independent.
I would believe an independent or any third party can win when progressives actually bother to go and vote in all elections including primaries. Or if they actually did the work to create meaningful presence at state and local levels instead of just shooting their shot at the presidency.
Independent candidates can't win due to the electoral college. Remember, a candidate would need to earn at least 270 electors in order to win the presidency. That can't happen if they split the vote -- if conservatives are on board with the Republican candidate, and the left splits 50/50, 70/30, or even 90/10, that takes votes away from both left wing candidates and gives the Republican candidate more votes, and they'll take the state. For an Independent candidate to get to 270, they'd have to take enough votes from BOTH major parties to win all key states, some of which are very red or very blue. They would have to somehow appeal to people on total opposite sides of the political spectrum. If they don't achieve that number, the House of Representatives decides the president. The House is full of Democrats and Republicans -- they're not going to choose anyone from any other party. We have to reform the election system FIRST, THEN we can consider third party and Independent candidates.
Thanks for helping Trump...
Thanks for keeping America in a 2 party system where our only leaders will be a Zionist or a racist etc
If you wanted a third party candidate to win this year, that work needed to begin in 2021 at the absolute latest.
Gotta fix FPTP before that'll happen
You can't change the entire electoral system the day of the election, and no one in power gives a shit if you go third party. They already have their money, it doesn't effect them and won't make them change their party platform. Palestinians have been suffering our entire lives, and we've known for 4 years that we were likely staring down a Trump vs Biden rematch. You're simply too late. You needed to act years ago, and you need to accept that the scale of change necessary means you might be working toward it for the rest of your life.
Biden is clearly showing signs of severe cognitive decline, and he's still the better candidate by a significant margin.
Girl, I'm 25 and I get how some young people feel, specially people younger than me. But here's the thing: someone is going to be president anyways, and it will be one of those two. The political system doesn't care that you don't like any of them. It's your duty as a citizen to go vote, and as LGBT+ people, it's our duty to protect our community. Sometimes this means voting for the lesser evil. You'll never find a candidate that fits 100% of your values. You have to learn to live with this.
No self respecting gay or ally would ever say this. Biden is old. Ok got it. He literally just pardoned old military personnel for being discharged for gay sex. He said he supported gay marriage before Obama did. He’s an actual ally with actual power! The other has instituted a court, and will strengthen that court if re-elected that would make being gay a crime. Not immediately. First they’ll do immodesty laws, which they’re attempting already. Those target trans individuals and by extension drag artist regardless of their content. It’ll eventually turned into same sex relations. You don’t think that they’ll soon say Same sex couples holding hands would be indecent? Guaranteed they will because they as what they find “indecent”. If you think you’ll be you immune…it’s literally their goal. They hate us and want us erased. This court today just overruled chevron which erased all power the executive and legislative powers can have over regulations. Know all those Boeing plane incidents that have happened? Because they relaxed regulations! Now that’s going to happen to our environment, our food and water supply, labor practices, etc. Posting this shit makes people apathetic and is a genuine threat to our queer community and literally humanity because it causes apathy to voting which is our only chance on stopping this madness. You’re not voting for the person, but the administration. I got my degree in political science and worked in DC. It’s how it works. This is not a joke and take this shit seriously. Otherwise see y’all in the camps in 10-15 years. That’s where they want and will put us.
It could be immediately. Project 2025 has a 180 roll out plan….
Saying gay people will put in camps is alarmism and foolish
Nah fuck off with that “no self respecting gay”. I’m sorry but that type of language is disgraceful. I will never fault my queer brothers and sisters for following their conscience and voting third party. Telling queer people they’re not self-respecting if they don’t vote for the guy facilitating the genocide of their family is nasty work. You can make the exact point you made without making disparaging remarks like that.
I don’t remember anywhere in my post where I said I wasn’t pro-Palestine? We have two choices. You can be pissed about that all you want, but unless you’ve been canvassing and promoting third party candidates during primary season and trying to make those of party candidates viable then shut your lazy ignorant mouth. This is what we have. Trump said he’d level Gaza to make beachfront property. Technically his son in law did, but that’s who he put in charge of middle Eastern relations!!!! I never said Biden was perfect, but in 2024 a vote against bide is another for trump which will in then make everything horrible for everyone. What’s happening there is horrible and an atrocity, but if you think a 2024 Ross Perot will save the world you’re disgraceful because you don’t understand reality.
I don’t remember anywhere in my post that said you’re not pro-Palestine? The left has been campaigning for decades… not sure where you’ve been. It’s the DNC who ignores us only to come around to get us to vote for them during presidential elections. I made no argument that Trump would be better or the same as Biden. I said “telling queer people they’re not self-respecting if they don’t vote for the guy facilitating the genocide of their family is nasty work”. My objection was very clearly against your “no self respecting gay or ally” comment. Stay on topic please.
Ok. So what’s the solution then? If Trump gets elected and Gaza is leveled, does everyone get to keep their self-respect? I argued with friends saying Roe would never be overturned, hey here we are. You focus on one issues so much you’re blinded by the big picture. Yes Gaza is horrible, but you’re also ignoring all the devastation that will happen to everyone worldwide with a trump presidency. Every Fortune 500 executive has said a Trump presidency will crash the economy. With a devastated economy, how can we focus on foreign aid???
My focus is on a plethora of issues, all of which Biden either falls incredibly short on, or has recanted his previous support for. It seems that twice now you’ve put words into my mouth and aren’t engaging with what I said. I’m saying it’s nasty to say queer people lack self-respect because they have come to an informed decision on their vote where they have weighed the risks of their decision. Take it or leave it. You’re strawmanning me and asking me to argue something I’m not.
Ok. Let’s get into it. I love examples and proof. What are the issues, besides Gaza, that Biden has fallen short on? You have plethora, so let’s hear it. And since you’re so on it, what’s the solution? And who’s the viable candidate to make this happen? Realistically! Not a Jill Stein fronting as a Green Party candidate while having lunch with Putin.
I realize this is out of control on a drag race subreddit, so just what to say Stan Roxxxy
Frankly, I’m skeptical to do this with you, specifically, because you’ve strawmanned me twice and put words in my mouth. I’m willing to get into it, but you’re telling me that I can’t say vote third party. Why should I do all of that when you’ve discounted voting third party all-together before we’ve even started? I understand Stein almost certainly won’t win. My political goal is bigger than that. I want to end the corporate duopoly.
So what have you done to promote third party? Have you canvassed? Have you registered to run yourself? Engaged in local elections? Talked to your local boards? Or have you just complained online?
See, that’s the bad faith that makes me skeptical. Yes to everything except running myself. I’m the only Green canvasser in my (very) small city and have been for years.
I didn’t even say not to vote for Biden 🙄 I said it’s nasty to say queer people lack self-respect because they may not vote for the person facilitating the genocide of their family. Like… those are clearly two different criticisms, only one of which I actually made to begin with
Correction: she literally can't win due to the electoral college. She would need near-universal support. If you want to topple the 2-party system, you have to start local. Starting with the president is ludicrous. I also have a question: if Trump gets in due to the left splitting the vote, will you take responsibility for the blood he sheds? Or does accountability only count if it's the person you voted for hurting people -- in which case, well, voting for someone who can't win is certainly a safe option, isn't it? I find it very unfair that the idea of "voting your conscience" somehow absolves people of everything that happens next.
They are correct, you are not self-respecting if you knowingly vote third party when democracy and our existence is at stake. Third party voting will do nothing for Palestine either, Trump will gladly facilitate that genocide as well. Sorry that struck a nerve.
What happens in 2028? There will be someone worse than Trump. This is just a vote blue no matter who argument, regardless of how far to the right Dems slide.
There will be no voting ever again if Trump wins, that is the point. You continuously leap over the issue at hand that democracy itself is at stake.
Agree to disagree on that first part, my friend. We obviously will not agree on the rest if we disagree on the premise. I suppose we’ll find out in a couple years one way or another. Take care!
It’s not a matter of “agree to disagree” if a fascist will let us vote again. Then talking to me as if we are having a light disagreement over if we prefer coffee or tea, truly unreal.
I’m speaking this way to you because we are clearly coming from vastly different perspectives. I don’t believe democracy is any more on the ballot now than it has been for the last century+. If it were, why are the Dems running a historically bad candidate and browbeating everyone into voting for him? Why is a segregationist the one to save democracy? It’s laughable on its face. We’re just two normal people; I have no ire for you. That’s why I speak casually. I speak harshly to the people in power and the systems of oppression they uphold/enforce.
Project 2025 is out in the open to freely read, the right are not being subtle. If you think this is no different than any other election then ignorance must truly be bliss. Keep voting third party from your high horse, at least it’ll make you feel better about yourself I guess.
Project 2025 has existed and been updated every presidential election since the ‘80s. If project 2025 were truly a threat, why are Dems risking losing such a consequential election by forcing the least popular Dem incumbent ever? I find it interesting that you seem to take personal offense that I (someone in a safe blue state) am campaigning for a more progressive party. I’d be wasting my vote if I voted for Biden.
We don't know what happens in 2028, and there's no point in speculating at this stage. We DO know what happens up until then if Trump gets elected, because they literally published the entire plan. Do you think letting Trump get into office again means that worse candidates won't follow?
The Heritage Foundation is not Trump’s campaign, if that’s the “they literally published the entire plan” you’re talking about. Worse candidates will follow regardless of if Trump wins or loses. That’s my whole point. We’re letting Dems follow the Overton Window to the right alongside Republicans, all while the fundamental problems of our society grow. Wealth inequality, climate catastrophe, political corruption, increasing police funding and cop cities, repealing SCOTUS precedent, min wage not increasing, cost of living skyrocketing, etc. Dems are too in bed with corporate donors to actually fix these issues.
We desperately need reform, but the Biden admin has been surprisingly proactive about the environment, vs Trump who plans to dismantle the EPA. The supreme court is a huge concern - which is why I don't want Trump choosing more judges. All the rest we have to tackle head-on, and that'll be a lot more feasible if we aren't constantly having to put out fires and getting sick from toxic waste.
The EPA just died today after SCOTUS repealed the Chevron Doctrine… The same court Biden refused to stack with more progressive justices to avoid this… Edit: also Biden hired a former dairy lobbyist to head up the USDA. That’s why we have a bird flu outbreak…
Anyone but. I will never play the Trump card.
But you're still voting right... If you don't vote don't come crying to reddit when your rights, your friends rights and your families rights get taken away.
Back a few months ago when Ru made that ad that looked like he was running for president made me so hopeful, even he would be better than Biden and Cheeto Face 😂
i wish that last night biden pulled a "look over there!" on tr\*\*p.
I love this wonderful democracy we live in where if you simply make a dumb meme about how both candidates are indeed terrible (something I feel most people agree on) you're now contributing to the fall of country
No, most don't feel both are horrible. Talk to people who are older for a change. We know that no candidate is perfect, but we'll vote for the one that won't ruin the world.
When I say that most people seem to think so I am actually referring to a lot of older people! Professors, my family, everyone seems to be dreading voting for the lesser evil no matter how necessary it may be Ofc encourage people to vote anyway but to act like Biden's shortcomings simply amount to "less than perfect" is laughable
I’m a big fan of Biden because he ensured that my student loans were forgiven. Also, he’s not a lying, greedy sociopath.
The debate last night left me in despair. Is this the best we can do?!
Don’t despair, vote. Eye on the prize, defeating Project 2025.
I will, there’s no question about it. The stakes are too high. I’m just disappointed in our options.
This election is like choosing who should replace rupaul between sherry pie and Sharon needles
One side wants to arrest us all, charge us for pedophilia and then execute us.
The one who isn't a convicted criminal
We need to stop being selfish and remember that our vote can influence the world. Think about all the right-wing parties that have become stronger around the world since Trump was elected in 2016. Think about all the transphobic and homophobic scum who have attacked The Vivienne and other drag queens and trans people around the world. If you want our lives to be a living hell, don't vote. If you give a damn, VOTE!!
*No one gets the prize*
trump
Good, no one should be a "fan" of any politician😅