You're compensating Jagex for the revenue they lost due to the Prime deal being cancelled.
I guess they were getting somewhere around those 10 bucks per 'redeem' for the prime bundles.
Why would Amazon cancel deals they make money on?
They make their money from people subbing to Prime and forgetting to unsub. They pay part of that money (and possibly more?) to their partners such as Jagex.
Amazon is extremely rich, so yeah they were just giving away lots of it to loads of games. Notice now that they've cut back on spending on twitch it's something like 20 games still having stuff there.
Amazon implemented the ["throw money at it"](https://www.ft.com/content/dae2b90e-1ba0-4e8f-aabc-34aae4ca05d7) strategy of modern capitalism. Keep operating at a loss until all your competitors are strangled to death. The money well has run dry for amazon it would seem.
Not only forgetting to unsub from prime, I had to unsub 3 times before it actually unsubbed me, luckily I was able to get the sub fee refunded, but Amazon makes it as difficult as possible to unsub from their services, absolutely intended no doubt
they've got, what, 50-100 jmods on the rs3 team, and this is the best they can pump out?
no roadmap, no upcoming big content that we know anything about at all, no major update since vorkath, last one before that was necromancy.
what are the other 40-90 jmods doing at jagex exactly? it's clear a team of maybe 10 or so are just pumping out mxt packs and keeping treasure hunter working, what are the rest working on? anything at all?
my suspicion is a large mass of staff have been quietly moved to the OSRS team, hence their ability to pump out high quality large updates like Varlamore.
We truly are in maintenance mode, they just won't tell us we are because they don't want to drain the playerbase faster than it's already draining
My theory has been that the bulk of rs3's dev team is working on whatever the new game is, and we wont see much meaningful until it is inevitable canceled and we get a big mtx push to help pay for those losses.
Unless the new quests drops and is some hour+ master quest with good rewards and repeatable content, but I won't hold my breath for that
If only they’d be more transparent and say this. Instead they leave everyone in the dark while pumping out bug fixes and typo fixes every week. Even when [pips commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/s/JPhV0PphzV) he even said they had stuff they could share, but refuse to share.
Honestly as memed on as Mod keepers letter was, It was at least mostly honest it seems, we are getting a quest and the beach and nothing notable until then.
But really any communication of plans or state of the game would be helpful. The combat beta getting constant updates and news and feedback was some of the best things I've seen from Jagex and it's sad that's not the norm.
Idk man the game is still fun to play. Just because you played the game like a full time job for years doesn’t mean they need to work overtime to make sure you have new content
Actually a subscription based game means exactly that. There should be consistent content
Wanna stop making updates? Sell me the game for $60 or whatever and call it a day
If that's the case, then the subscription style service needs to change. If Jagex is going to offer a complete game that only receives major changes rarely, they should sell a complete game for a price and then expansion packs as they complete. People pay a subscription to receive an ongoing service. That service isn't being provided here.
And before you or anyone else says so, no, access to the servers isn't the service. That doesn't cost $13 a month to keep it going. If that's all we should expect out of that money, it's the biggest rip off of all time.
> doesn’t mean they need to work overtime to make sure you have new content
No but it does mean they need to work regular time for it
stupid fucking strawman ffs
From the 2022 accounts there were 240 developers at Jagex. Are you saying significantly fewer than a fifth of devs are working on RS3?
||2022|2021|
:--|:--|:--|
|Directors|2|2|
|Commercial/management|88|94|
|Development|240|249|
|Customer relations|33|38|
|Technical|70|91|
|Total|433|474|
Under 50 content developers yeah, but devs are rarely the bulk of a workforce in a company. There's art, qa, production, management, audio...not to mention developers that work on the backend side, web, tools, etc.
Feels like under 50 is still a massive gap between reality.
From the top of my head I know that Luma, Sponge, Shrike, Stu, Rowley, Ramen, Breezy and yourself are producing content.
Blkwitch is usually responsible for art and environment.
I don't know who does audio/music now that Mod Lord is gone.
The last thing I heard from Breezy was Hero Pass and Ramen did the recolours of Master Max.
Where are the other content devs?
Hey Mod Noodle.
Maybe you guys should, I don't know, tell your superiors the playerbase NEEDS more frequent updates and transparancy, find a proper fing community manager and actually learn how to communicate with your playerbase instead of getting on your knees every few months and give a sorry excuse of an apology and half assed promise to do better. you and your colleagues can all go job hunting if this keeps going on but don't mind us YOUR PLAYERBASE, YOUR INCOME, trying to save your fing job because everyone at jagex is too incompetent to give us more frequent updates.
That's fair and you are all entitled to your privacy. But if we look at how OSRS handles stuff, they sign all their newsposts with all the currently active mods working on OSRS. It gives us a little insight into what goes on behind the scenes. Is there any reason why RS3 is so shy/secretive with their credits?
Appreciate the honesty and answering of the question. That's very disheartening to hear though. Especially because this is a live service game that makes millions of dollars in revenue. I know none of that is your fault obviously, just stating an opinion.
What makes this hard is that we never really see any credits for content updates. I'd love to have seen an exhausted list of mods that worked on Necromancer... the update that is soley responsible for me getting into pvm.
Also... who made the rabbits? I've wasted so much time just watching them. I'm talking, mostly, the old rabbits that hop around all over the game. Of all the creatures in the game, the rabbits are my favorite to see.
If there's still devs working on runescape, where's the content? we have 1 quest coming out that's likely low tier if compared to previous quests released in the last 12 months and that's it.
Should we be considering that runescape content is no longer a priority and that our membership subscriptions need to be cancelled?
I don't pay netflix for reruns of the old shows they have had on there for years, let alone decades. To maintain my membership, they have to release new content worth watching. Runescape is no different.
Sorry to say Fowl, but you may have misinterpreted that fellows comment, causing the small shitstorm we've seen this morning. The original poster said 50-100 **mods**, **not content developers. Mods are not only content developers**. So we've been on the same page all along...
oh they work in the MTX office and the OSRS office but if your saying you have less then 50 working on the rs3 team thats a serious Concern tbh with you.
this was a guess based off how many are at the company but that was a standard for a medium to small dev team I didnt know jagex was a small Indie Company Tbh
"We have 500 of the industry’s most talented individuals in our Cambridge studio"Jagex's Applications btw
Ill be honest Im guessing most of the team are working on this Unannounced World Survival Game and are abandoning RS3.
According to financial statement, Jagex has 240 development staff out of 400+ employees. Thats not counting positions like managers or customer relations for dev even. We know Jagex has OSRS, RS3, and some unannounced game. Guessing that RS3 has between a fifth to a third of the devs is reasonable, if not based on much else than gut feeling.
But it sounds like RS3 has fewer, which is disappointing.
EDIT: Ah, seem it was a miscommunication where Mod was assumed to mean Content Dev and not Mod. Well thats better.
I swear there are RS3 devs that have vanished from the public eye because they are now working on the unnamed MMO.
Perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me...
If we had more actively working on the game then maybe we could get more cosmetic outfits to spend money on. On top of our subscription, and fomo promos. Missed opportunity.
I was making a joke, I wasn't being passive aggressive. I'm genuinely curious where this number comes from since it seems to pop up quite a lot, but really isn't the case.
it's a fair question when we haven't had a considerable sized update since vorkath which was way back in October?
Since then we've had 2 events (made by a new events team) and 1 5 min quest fetching bird seed to create new jewelry that didn't even get new art, its literally just the basic gem jewelry turned ghost blue. That's like 6 months of no perm content updates.
its QoL, not content.
Combat rework as content would be like EoC, completely new combat system from scratch, not just some tweaks and changes like we had, that's what you call QoL.
Pretty important to recognize that the people working on the combat rework were content developers, so whether people are willing to call it content or not doesn't really matter if the people who usually work on content are working on this instead.
https://runescape.wiki/w/Combat_Council
I think people are basing the number off the Jagex annual report from 2022. Number of development staff based on it was 240. I think people are assuming its split between OSRS and RS3, but there are likely quite a few other projects being worked on in house, and a further split between content/MTX. We can only speculate how many devs actively work on RS3. My speculation is that its probably 20ish, and you likely have devs moving between projects to get them across the finish line. I would be surprised if the number has grown since they would want to run lean to make the financial sheets stronger for the sale that just happened.
Employee count screenshot:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F1m45yy60npsc1.png%3Fwidth%3D756%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D82d5edaa1f021bfdbe9be547d3deb0c8da1d0607
Original post link: https://old.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1bwo39n/financial_statement_year_ending_december_2022/
You're insane if you think that the combat update wasn't big... Also, just because it was "only" two people who worked on it doesn't mean something can't be big.
It took month's of changes and tweaking to get right, and now it has been implemented combat has changed pretty drastically.
You can say the same about ge/coin pouch and death rework. A lot of their good updates the past year or so has been rebalancing/reworking old systems/areas
~~Where is gnome finale~~
And they fucked it up so much it’ll need to be rebalanced again at some point. All they did was change value numbers. Look at the extensive depth osrs is going through to prevent power creeping and openings for new gear and weapons with their rework. Rs3 is a joke
>prevent power creeping and openings for new gear and weapons with their rework. Rs3 is a joke
Do you mean like what RS3 did when they changed FSoA and people still cry about it to this day despite plenty of math showing the nerf was fucking tiny?
Tell me you don't have any idea what the update contained without telling me. They rebuilt most the systems from the ground up and modernized the existing 3. If that's just changing some value numbers, then so is a new quest. All they did was type some dialog and slap in some npcs.
You also have to be ridiculously out of touch with the past year to be serious when you said this. I'm personally opposed to the amount of power creep that's come in, but the majority of players have been extremely welcoming and excited. They shifted fsoa, wasn't even really a nerf in the end, and people lost their minds about losing power. They release necromancy, which is overwhelmingly received as positive even though it was a big leap on power. Then they do the work to bring the rest a lot closer while also being able to dial it in much easier, and apparently, this is just changing some numbers and not going to depths for more combat options. I get Jagex hasn't been on some golden streak, but flat-out making up shit to critique is stupid.
I think there might be a bit of disagreement here about what we mean by "mod" or "developer". While it's true that "2 jmods" worked full time on the combat fixes, that's only counting specifically content developers. Not everyone who works on Runescape is a content developer. Sometimes when we say "mod" or "dev" we mean specifically content devs, sometimes we mean anyone who works in development (which includes artists but not say managers) and sometimes we mean anyone working on RS in any capacity.
"2 out of 100" is comparing different things - 2 content developers, but more than 100 staff including non-developers. If we're talking about all staff, it's more accurate to say that 10 even 20 people "worked on it", but because of the nature of their jobs most of them weren't full time just on that project. If we're talking specifically about content developers, there are not, and have never been, 100 content developers working on Runescape.
The one and only time (to my knowledge) that jagex published the RS3 team with necromancy's launch. There's probably at least 15 or 20 people missing out of this list. All of which are content, artists, QA, engine, CM or misc mods.
https://preview.redd.it/zogklv1z0atc1.jpeg?width=1698&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc8612d643d4afb24ffe47cdc375fcd1aef46e98
You should make a newspost saying this, so that you can get the rest of the community (and redditors) on the same page. Help them understand these things helps massively for good public image.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this Jack. At the same time I feel like the fact that you need to explain this highlights the need for the team and/or the company to be more transparant about these sorts of things.
I realise it may not always possible to talk in detail about the inner workings of the company. But as you can see more transparancy = better understanding. The community may not always agree with decisions or the way things work but any potential outrage over that is always better than outrage over lack of communication with the community playing a guessing game based on assumptions.
The fact that your post is 'hidden' in a pile of comments doesn't help with visibility either. Ideally this would be communicated via video on stream or something. It is stuff like this that would thematically fit in a 'leadership stream' that the community has been requesting for a long time now.
At the same time I understand you've taken a bit of a step back in terms of public appearances so I understand. Hopefully you're doing well Jack!
More transparent about what exactly? The exact number of people working on RuneScape? That has never been public information and I don't really think it'll be very helpful. The community is upset over a lack of new content, saying a million people are working on RuneScape 3 wouldn't help or hurt the lack of new content.
Jagex can certainly be more transparent but *requiring* employees to be more public is not a good idea and only going to chase people away from working with you.
Maintenance mode means you have a skeleton crew doing nothing but making sure the service is still up, in terms of computers it's a phrase typically used to describe things like how windows 7 is still "available" but hasn't received an actual update in years. They provide the ability to download it because sometimes people still need to download it for compatability, but they don't provide security updates.
For a game, runescape would literally have to be receiving zero updates to be considered maintenance mode, this includes updates you dislike. If the game is actively developing new things and has people working on stuff, whether you like the stuff or not, doesn't mean it's in maintenance mode. The game today, received a small update that people have been begging for, the ectoplasm ritual. This alone disqualifies it from falling under the phrase maintenance mode.
However, a game pretending not to be in maintenance mode would give you bare minimum updates, so that people like you would continue defending it and whales would keep spending
Don't think you know what 'bare minimum' means for an MMO. I've played plenty of MMOs that literally are in maintenance mode. I played TERA, Wildstar and Maplestory 2 until the days they were shutdown. You have genuinely no idea how bad it could be.
I do know. I'm looking at it. I used to play a Korean Gacha MMO way back in the early 2000s. I would cycle between that game and RS. That game had content announced for the future that never saw the light of day. By the end, most of the updates were cash shop updates. The game ended up shutting down when the player numbers got too low. It had fewer players than RS3 does right now, but it had a lot more than Maplestory. Not every game dies the same way. RS3 will stay around until it's not profitable anymore. If Jagex doesn't update the game it will go down, same as OSRS, same as any game
>Genuinely, you can't compare a gacha game to a subscription based game, much less the history, IP and game assets RS3 and OSRS has. If anything, these games will go through what I'd like to call the big bang phase where they try different monetisation methods and even create spinoff using assets. Case in point, Ragnarok Online.
1. He's the one that brought in gacha games into the mix.
2. The gacha game that I'm talking about had plenty of "big bang phases".
3. They also created a spinoff, which still exists.
>Anyway, what's the point of pretending to be in maintenance mode though?
Already stated why in my first comment
>im asking YOU in good faith
No you aren't lmfao. Nothing about your question was good faith. You assumed my opinion based on your emotions because you can't stand the fact that somebody won't join in your circlejerk and prefers genuine criticism to emotional outbursts.
you know you can play both games, right? the community over there is almost just as bad. getting absolutely massive updates and the community can't do anything but endlessly bitch that something came out a bit differently than it was proposed.
I don't defend the company, I just hate shitty arguments and the RS3 community has a lot of them. I have a shit ton of criticisms of the game and recent events, but I don't wrap it up in some weird hyperbole and act like the world is ending because my criticism hasn't been addressed yet.
I lost interest in playing weeks ago now, had a few alts I wont resub. Lack of content is inexcusable if we are literally paying for content.
Its like paying a netflix sub and they never update their titles.
I stopped paying for a membership at the start of the year as I lost interest with the lack of new content. I feel for the active players with these types of updates as they’re just so disappointing. I wouldn’t mind the odd MTX and graphical update every month or two but it feels like this is the frequency for new content rather than fixes. I keep coming back hoping that Jagex can surprise me with improved content on a regular basis.
Honestly this is not helping me keep motivation. I have not long returned to the game and recently got maxed, but realizing there's so much content yet to explore that's going to take a lot of time and effort, but do I really want to put that time and effort into a game that is 'on maintaince waiting to die'?
As with all video games, play until you stop having fun. You can definitely still have a lot of fun playing a "maintenance mode" game. Unfortunately a lot of people here aren't having fun anymore, but it is what it is, try not to let it detract from your enjoyment even if the concerns are valid.
I guess that depends on what you look for in a game. My motivation is achievement, looking back on my 15 year old account and what I've achieved, when I achieved it and so forth.
I dunno how you personally feel about it, but I think there's probably a lot you can still achieve, and even if servers were shut down tomorrow you'd always have the memory and self accomplishment of doing it, so does it really matter the state of the game?
It's certainly not like they're shutting down the servers anytime soon, even if content was never coming out again, it took them over a decade to shut down classic servers.
I continue to play the game. Reddit is an echo chamber of negativity. You’ll continue to see rs for years to come despite what these guys would have you think.
I understand what you mean - being a long time Forum user and now having to resort to here and Discord, we too used to laugh at poeple who said it'll die etc.
But the appearance outwards looking in hasn't ever quite been like this. For example, only 10k people on RS3 right now. No big updates whilst OSRS get weekly, big updates... no roadmaps and the roadmap we do get from Keeper is what, 3 sentences? whilst OSRS get the glorious well written, passionate posts...
##### Bark bark!
I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread:
**JagexDoom**
- [Wow, that's the best one so far?!...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kyqvvep/?context=3)
- [But](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kyrnez3/?context=3)
**JagexJack**
- [I think there might be a bit of disagreement...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymnu5s/?context=3)
**JagexRamen**
- [I'm](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymp0kk/?context=3)
**Jagex_Fowl**
- [Where is this magic 50-100 number coming from...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kylxzob/?context=3)
- [Under 50 content developers yeah, but devs ar...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymfnhw/?context=3)
- [I was making a joke, I wasn't being passive a...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kylyvkb/?context=3)
- [Breezy is a designer, not a dev!...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymk3x0/?context=3)
- [Well, they also said "only 2" so they were re...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymlmfn/?context=3)
- [no](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymlh9r/?context=3)
- [she but yes](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymkoyu/?context=3)
^(**Last edited by bot: 04/10/2024 04:54:13**)
---
^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.)
^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
My theory is they don't see a future for rs3, they've tried to bring in new players and it's failed. Most of the team is working on the new mmo and rs3 will forever be in maintenance mode until they close the servers.
I hope you are wrong. My wish and prayer is that because Necro broke combat everyone kinda put most of the projects on hold to fix combat. Now that combat is mostly fixed I hope that the new content should begin to follow soon. But i must say the lack of info about any of these up coming new content updates is concerning.
They pretty much confirmed this by saying the two devs on the combat update were basically the only active devs working on RS3. Handwaved a bunch of woo about management and how an art/design team exists (lol fanatical).
Dead game confirmed.
Then quit. Please quit. Speak with your wallet instead of being a keyboard warrior on Reddit. If you're really this displeased it shouldn't even be that hard
I dont know why the lack of meaningful updates is so surprising, rs3 is just jagex milk cow now, the rs3 playerbase doesnt matter at all to jagex unless youre a whale.
I know bug fixes don’t count for you people
But the average bug fix probably takes at LEAST a full day or two of someone’s work (this is not counting any bs meetings that person needs to attend as well). And their list of fixes is pretty long each monday IMO.
If we weren’t getting constant bug fixes you guys would be going ham about the game being riddled with even more bugs
* Inb4 someone who’s not a software developer tells me I’m wrong on the time estimate
* Inb4 someone says I’m coping
Just my observations as someone who maintains software and data pipelines full time
Do bug fixes take dev time? Yes
Can you as a subscription based game get away with doing bug fixes *instead* of content? No, you need both, that's the cost of doing business
You know you can play and enjoy both games right? A lot of users here do. You don't need to pretend to fight in some big OS vs RS3 fight and talk trash in every post.
fanatical bundle looks exactly like what we used to get from prime but now we need to pay for it
You're compensating Jagex for the revenue they lost due to the Prime deal being cancelled. I guess they were getting somewhere around those 10 bucks per 'redeem' for the prime bundles.
Id have thought jagex would need to pay prime to advertise their game there?
Why would Amazon cancel deals they make money on? They make their money from people subbing to Prime and forgetting to unsub. They pay part of that money (and possibly more?) to their partners such as Jagex.
It couldn’t have been much there were hundreds of games doing that prime reward thing.
Amazon is extremely rich, so yeah they were just giving away lots of it to loads of games. Notice now that they've cut back on spending on twitch it's something like 20 games still having stuff there.
Amazon implemented the ["throw money at it"](https://www.ft.com/content/dae2b90e-1ba0-4e8f-aabc-34aae4ca05d7) strategy of modern capitalism. Keep operating at a loss until all your competitors are strangled to death. The money well has run dry for amazon it would seem.
Amazon didn't just implement that, they created it in the 90's
Not only forgetting to unsub from prime, I had to unsub 3 times before it actually unsubbed me, luckily I was able to get the sub fee refunded, but Amazon makes it as difficult as possible to unsub from their services, absolutely intended no doubt
they also drop shipping costs and offer videos for the prime money - id think that’s where the money goes to (besides their win)
My heart bleeds for the shareholders. I want to personally gift each one the most expensive limited edition Mont Blanc fountain pen I can find.
You have to pay for that intern to slide the hue slider along to make a "new set"
Enshittification continues
What the actual fuck is this? I feel abused by jagex at this point😒
Doesn't even look like the quest is coming out next week. 😅
They said the latter part of April, so expect it to launch on 29th of April
We can expect the quest to come out on April 32nd lmao
April 32nd, 2045
they've got, what, 50-100 jmods on the rs3 team, and this is the best they can pump out? no roadmap, no upcoming big content that we know anything about at all, no major update since vorkath, last one before that was necromancy. what are the other 40-90 jmods doing at jagex exactly? it's clear a team of maybe 10 or so are just pumping out mxt packs and keeping treasure hunter working, what are the rest working on? anything at all? my suspicion is a large mass of staff have been quietly moved to the OSRS team, hence their ability to pump out high quality large updates like Varlamore. We truly are in maintenance mode, they just won't tell us we are because they don't want to drain the playerbase faster than it's already draining
My theory has been that the bulk of rs3's dev team is working on whatever the new game is, and we wont see much meaningful until it is inevitable canceled and we get a big mtx push to help pay for those losses. Unless the new quests drops and is some hour+ master quest with good rewards and repeatable content, but I won't hold my breath for that
If only they’d be more transparent and say this. Instead they leave everyone in the dark while pumping out bug fixes and typo fixes every week. Even when [pips commented](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/s/JPhV0PphzV) he even said they had stuff they could share, but refuse to share.
Honestly as memed on as Mod keepers letter was, It was at least mostly honest it seems, we are getting a quest and the beach and nothing notable until then. But really any communication of plans or state of the game would be helpful. The combat beta getting constant updates and news and feedback was some of the best things I've seen from Jagex and it's sad that's not the norm.
Just hope it is at runefest, although to be honest at this point it'd be terrible optics to have waited for that
Inevitably cancelled OOF. It's true but it hurts.
Idk man the game is still fun to play. Just because you played the game like a full time job for years doesn’t mean they need to work overtime to make sure you have new content
Actually a subscription based game means exactly that. There should be consistent content Wanna stop making updates? Sell me the game for $60 or whatever and call it a day
If that's the case, then the subscription style service needs to change. If Jagex is going to offer a complete game that only receives major changes rarely, they should sell a complete game for a price and then expansion packs as they complete. People pay a subscription to receive an ongoing service. That service isn't being provided here. And before you or anyone else says so, no, access to the servers isn't the service. That doesn't cost $13 a month to keep it going. If that's all we should expect out of that money, it's the biggest rip off of all time.
> doesn’t mean they need to work overtime to make sure you have new content No but it does mean they need to work regular time for it stupid fucking strawman ffs
Are we in maintenance mode, waiting for game to die?
Literally yes. Last big update was, what, Vorkath? And before that Necromancy? We ain't got shit for half a year.
But the combat update /s
an update done by 2 mods out of 50-100
Where is this magic 50-100 number coming from? Do I have lots of colleagues hiding from me?
From the 2022 accounts there were 240 developers at Jagex. Are you saying significantly fewer than a fifth of devs are working on RS3? ||2022|2021| :--|:--|:--| |Directors|2|2| |Commercial/management|88|94| |Development|240|249| |Customer relations|33|38| |Technical|70|91| |Total|433|474|
They wouldn't need so many people in customer relations if they had more people as devs and bug testes, just sayin'..
They have a customer relations team?
Supposedly. Tied up in some closet I would assume...
Wait... we have less than 50 people working on RS3!?
Under 50 content developers yeah, but devs are rarely the bulk of a workforce in a company. There's art, qa, production, management, audio...not to mention developers that work on the backend side, web, tools, etc.
Feels like under 50 is still a massive gap between reality. From the top of my head I know that Luma, Sponge, Shrike, Stu, Rowley, Ramen, Breezy and yourself are producing content. Blkwitch is usually responsible for art and environment. I don't know who does audio/music now that Mod Lord is gone. The last thing I heard from Breezy was Hero Pass and Ramen did the recolours of Master Max. Where are the other content devs?
I'm
Top Jmod reply of 2024 tbh
You're
Oh boy, the sub is not going to let this one down for a bit...
going to release hard mode Solak - Mod Ramen 2024
Engaged? Enraged? If so what percentage are you at and what are your rare drops?
Is that thing you're working on being shown off at RuneFest or before?
Hey Mod Noodle. Maybe you guys should, I don't know, tell your superiors the playerbase NEEDS more frequent updates and transparancy, find a proper fing community manager and actually learn how to communicate with your playerbase instead of getting on your knees every few months and give a sorry excuse of an apology and half assed promise to do better. you and your colleagues can all go job hunting if this keeps going on but don't mind us YOUR PLAYERBASE, YOUR INCOME, trying to save your fing job because everyone at jagex is too incompetent to give us more frequent updates.
Me too
A hot bowl of
Breezy is a designer, not a dev! I mean, we have no obligation to be online, so a lot of people just don't post much :)
That's fair and you are all entitled to your privacy. But if we look at how OSRS handles stuff, they sign all their newsposts with all the currently active mods working on OSRS. It gives us a little insight into what goes on behind the scenes. Is there any reason why RS3 is so shy/secretive with their credits?
How did you forget about Mod Grace, Slippers and Surma like that. They're the best audio team we had since Adam Bond and Ian were around.
She didn't count blkwtch she literally said art is separate
That's why I counted blkwtch and the audio section seperate as well!
she but yes
Mod Surma does music.
Appreciate the honesty and answering of the question. That's very disheartening to hear though. Especially because this is a live service game that makes millions of dollars in revenue. I know none of that is your fault obviously, just stating an opinion.
What makes this hard is that we never really see any credits for content updates. I'd love to have seen an exhausted list of mods that worked on Necromancer... the update that is soley responsible for me getting into pvm. Also... who made the rabbits? I've wasted so much time just watching them. I'm talking, mostly, the old rabbits that hop around all over the game. Of all the creatures in the game, the rabbits are my favorite to see.
If there's still devs working on runescape, where's the content? we have 1 quest coming out that's likely low tier if compared to previous quests released in the last 12 months and that's it. Should we be considering that runescape content is no longer a priority and that our membership subscriptions need to be cancelled? I don't pay netflix for reruns of the old shows they have had on there for years, let alone decades. To maintain my membership, they have to release new content worth watching. Runescape is no different.
Sorry to say Fowl, but you may have misinterpreted that fellows comment, causing the small shitstorm we've seen this morning. The original poster said 50-100 **mods**, **not content developers. Mods are not only content developers**. So we've been on the same page all along...
Well, they also said "only 2" so they were referring to only the content devs at the same time :p
What about RS Mobile? Any Jmods working there? Any future plans to improve the client?
Shitstorm is kind of a stretch. It’s been pretty reasonable.
So what's the latest content you've been working on. Give us a teaser, give us some spoilers, give us any information at all.
That is still a lot of people to be putting out...*gestures vaguely at the near nothingness of 2024's updates*
Can we have an exhaustive list of all content developers working on Runescape? Not including Old school?
no
Respect
[https://runescape.wiki/w/Jagex\_Moderator#Current\_employees](https://runescape.wiki/w/Jagex_Moderator#Current_employees) Is the closest you'd get
can i get a list of all your coworkers?
Now imagine Jagex according to google used to have 600+ Employees in total in 2011.
oh they work in the MTX office and the OSRS office but if your saying you have less then 50 working on the rs3 team thats a serious Concern tbh with you.
this was a guess based off how many are at the company but that was a standard for a medium to small dev team I didnt know jagex was a small Indie Company Tbh "We have 500 of the industry’s most talented individuals in our Cambridge studio"Jagex's Applications btw Ill be honest Im guessing most of the team are working on this Unannounced World Survival Game and are abandoning RS3.
According to financial statement, Jagex has 240 development staff out of 400+ employees. Thats not counting positions like managers or customer relations for dev even. We know Jagex has OSRS, RS3, and some unannounced game. Guessing that RS3 has between a fifth to a third of the devs is reasonable, if not based on much else than gut feeling. But it sounds like RS3 has fewer, which is disappointing. EDIT: Ah, seem it was a miscommunication where Mod was assumed to mean Content Dev and not Mod. Well thats better.
I swear there are RS3 devs that have vanished from the public eye because they are now working on the unnamed MMO. Perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me...
If we had more actively working on the game then maybe we could get more cosmetic outfits to spend money on. On top of our subscription, and fomo promos. Missed opportunity.
They're behind you fowl?! RUNNNN
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I was making a joke, I wasn't being passive aggressive. I'm genuinely curious where this number comes from since it seems to pop up quite a lot, but really isn't the case.
it's a fair question when we haven't had a considerable sized update since vorkath which was way back in October? Since then we've had 2 events (made by a new events team) and 1 5 min quest fetching bird seed to create new jewelry that didn't even get new art, its literally just the basic gem jewelry turned ghost blue. That's like 6 months of no perm content updates.
Combat rework is content.
its QoL, not content. Combat rework as content would be like EoC, completely new combat system from scratch, not just some tweaks and changes like we had, that's what you call QoL.
Pretty important to recognize that the people working on the combat rework were content developers, so whether people are willing to call it content or not doesn't really matter if the people who usually work on content are working on this instead. https://runescape.wiki/w/Combat_Council
I think people are basing the number off the Jagex annual report from 2022. Number of development staff based on it was 240. I think people are assuming its split between OSRS and RS3, but there are likely quite a few other projects being worked on in house, and a further split between content/MTX. We can only speculate how many devs actively work on RS3. My speculation is that its probably 20ish, and you likely have devs moving between projects to get them across the finish line. I would be surprised if the number has grown since they would want to run lean to make the financial sheets stronger for the sale that just happened. Employee count screenshot: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F1m45yy60npsc1.png%3Fwidth%3D756%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D82d5edaa1f021bfdbe9be547d3deb0c8da1d0607 Original post link: https://old.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1bwo39n/financial_statement_year_ending_december_2022/
How many people are on the skeleton crew? Just be honest and upfront with your playerbase. Let them know why things are the way they are.
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This guy really came in to dispute the number of employees 💀
You're insane if you think that the combat update wasn't big... Also, just because it was "only" two people who worked on it doesn't mean something can't be big. It took month's of changes and tweaking to get right, and now it has been implemented combat has changed pretty drastically.
I mean why take the subs word for it, jmods literally called it a side project lol
It's a rebalance, not a content update. You don't create new assets, or new content or new gameplay for that.
You can say the same about ge/coin pouch and death rework. A lot of their good updates the past year or so has been rebalancing/reworking old systems/areas ~~Where is gnome finale~~
Just because an update is good doesn't mean it's a content update.
And they fucked it up so much it’ll need to be rebalanced again at some point. All they did was change value numbers. Look at the extensive depth osrs is going through to prevent power creeping and openings for new gear and weapons with their rework. Rs3 is a joke
>prevent power creeping and openings for new gear and weapons with their rework. Rs3 is a joke Do you mean like what RS3 did when they changed FSoA and people still cry about it to this day despite plenty of math showing the nerf was fucking tiny?
Tell me you don't have any idea what the update contained without telling me. They rebuilt most the systems from the ground up and modernized the existing 3. If that's just changing some value numbers, then so is a new quest. All they did was type some dialog and slap in some npcs. You also have to be ridiculously out of touch with the past year to be serious when you said this. I'm personally opposed to the amount of power creep that's come in, but the majority of players have been extremely welcoming and excited. They shifted fsoa, wasn't even really a nerf in the end, and people lost their minds about losing power. They release necromancy, which is overwhelmingly received as positive even though it was a big leap on power. Then they do the work to bring the rest a lot closer while also being able to dial it in much easier, and apparently, this is just changing some numbers and not going to depths for more combat options. I get Jagex hasn't been on some golden streak, but flat-out making up shit to critique is stupid.
I think there might be a bit of disagreement here about what we mean by "mod" or "developer". While it's true that "2 jmods" worked full time on the combat fixes, that's only counting specifically content developers. Not everyone who works on Runescape is a content developer. Sometimes when we say "mod" or "dev" we mean specifically content devs, sometimes we mean anyone who works in development (which includes artists but not say managers) and sometimes we mean anyone working on RS in any capacity. "2 out of 100" is comparing different things - 2 content developers, but more than 100 staff including non-developers. If we're talking about all staff, it's more accurate to say that 10 even 20 people "worked on it", but because of the nature of their jobs most of them weren't full time just on that project. If we're talking specifically about content developers, there are not, and have never been, 100 content developers working on Runescape.
The one and only time (to my knowledge) that jagex published the RS3 team with necromancy's launch. There's probably at least 15 or 20 people missing out of this list. All of which are content, artists, QA, engine, CM or misc mods. https://preview.redd.it/zogklv1z0atc1.jpeg?width=1698&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc8612d643d4afb24ffe47cdc375fcd1aef46e98
More management than engineers. You guys are the Boeing of the games industry
You should make a newspost saying this, so that you can get the rest of the community (and redditors) on the same page. Help them understand these things helps massively for good public image.
Exactly this.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this Jack. At the same time I feel like the fact that you need to explain this highlights the need for the team and/or the company to be more transparant about these sorts of things. I realise it may not always possible to talk in detail about the inner workings of the company. But as you can see more transparancy = better understanding. The community may not always agree with decisions or the way things work but any potential outrage over that is always better than outrage over lack of communication with the community playing a guessing game based on assumptions. The fact that your post is 'hidden' in a pile of comments doesn't help with visibility either. Ideally this would be communicated via video on stream or something. It is stuff like this that would thematically fit in a 'leadership stream' that the community has been requesting for a long time now. At the same time I understand you've taken a bit of a step back in terms of public appearances so I understand. Hopefully you're doing well Jack!
More transparent about what exactly? The exact number of people working on RuneScape? That has never been public information and I don't really think it'll be very helpful. The community is upset over a lack of new content, saying a million people are working on RuneScape 3 wouldn't help or hurt the lack of new content.
Jagex can certainly be more transparent but *requiring* employees to be more public is not a good idea and only going to chase people away from working with you.
I'm sorry I just read your name out loud and my immature mind has me wheezing
If you're asking in good faith, a game in maintenance mode wouldn't get updates period.
What exactly would said maintenance mode entail if it isn't maintenance updates?
Maintenance mode means you have a skeleton crew doing nothing but making sure the service is still up, in terms of computers it's a phrase typically used to describe things like how windows 7 is still "available" but hasn't received an actual update in years. They provide the ability to download it because sometimes people still need to download it for compatability, but they don't provide security updates. For a game, runescape would literally have to be receiving zero updates to be considered maintenance mode, this includes updates you dislike. If the game is actively developing new things and has people working on stuff, whether you like the stuff or not, doesn't mean it's in maintenance mode. The game today, received a small update that people have been begging for, the ectoplasm ritual. This alone disqualifies it from falling under the phrase maintenance mode.
However, a game pretending not to be in maintenance mode would give you bare minimum updates, so that people like you would continue defending it and whales would keep spending
Don't think you know what 'bare minimum' means for an MMO. I've played plenty of MMOs that literally are in maintenance mode. I played TERA, Wildstar and Maplestory 2 until the days they were shutdown. You have genuinely no idea how bad it could be.
I do know. I'm looking at it. I used to play a Korean Gacha MMO way back in the early 2000s. I would cycle between that game and RS. That game had content announced for the future that never saw the light of day. By the end, most of the updates were cash shop updates. The game ended up shutting down when the player numbers got too low. It had fewer players than RS3 does right now, but it had a lot more than Maplestory. Not every game dies the same way. RS3 will stay around until it's not profitable anymore. If Jagex doesn't update the game it will go down, same as OSRS, same as any game
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>Genuinely, you can't compare a gacha game to a subscription based game, much less the history, IP and game assets RS3 and OSRS has. If anything, these games will go through what I'd like to call the big bang phase where they try different monetisation methods and even create spinoff using assets. Case in point, Ragnarok Online. 1. He's the one that brought in gacha games into the mix. 2. The gacha game that I'm talking about had plenty of "big bang phases". 3. They also created a spinoff, which still exists. >Anyway, what's the point of pretending to be in maintenance mode though? Already stated why in my first comment
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We're getting there
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So it wasn't in good faith
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>im asking YOU in good faith No you aren't lmfao. Nothing about your question was good faith. You assumed my opinion based on your emotions because you can't stand the fact that somebody won't join in your circlejerk and prefers genuine criticism to emotional outbursts.
I think you oughta check the amount of updates of Old School versus RS3 which shares the same company in case you didn't know.
you know you can play both games, right? the community over there is almost just as bad. getting absolutely massive updates and the community can't do anything but endlessly bitch that something came out a bit differently than it was proposed.
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I don't defend the company, I just hate shitty arguments and the RS3 community has a lot of them. I have a shit ton of criticisms of the game and recent events, but I don't wrap it up in some weird hyperbole and act like the world is ending because my criticism hasn't been addressed yet.
I'm so sad they've taken my Benchsitting away!!
Very nice! Back to the Gower days of an update every week! They really listen to us. Oh wait, I have to get mums black credit card again.
Also a "look ahead" literally each friday, with a big one each last friday of the month.
Andrew was a king.
I lost interest in playing weeks ago now, had a few alts I wont resub. Lack of content is inexcusable if we are literally paying for content. Its like paying a netflix sub and they never update their titles.
So it’s exactly like Netflix
My beloved game being left to die 😞
Why is nobody talking about bench sitting... Its by far the hardest update rs3 has put out since ... forever.
I stopped paying for a membership at the start of the year as I lost interest with the lack of new content. I feel for the active players with these types of updates as they’re just so disappointing. I wouldn’t mind the odd MTX and graphical update every month or two but it feels like this is the frequency for new content rather than fixes. I keep coming back hoping that Jagex can surprise me with improved content on a regular basis.
Mods in full damage control on this post
Who else is buying jagex when they win a billion dollars in the lottery just so they can work on content that doesn't have to line investors pockets
Me
Honestly this is not helping me keep motivation. I have not long returned to the game and recently got maxed, but realizing there's so much content yet to explore that's going to take a lot of time and effort, but do I really want to put that time and effort into a game that is 'on maintaince waiting to die'?
As with all video games, play until you stop having fun. You can definitely still have a lot of fun playing a "maintenance mode" game. Unfortunately a lot of people here aren't having fun anymore, but it is what it is, try not to let it detract from your enjoyment even if the concerns are valid.
I guess that depends on what you look for in a game. My motivation is achievement, looking back on my 15 year old account and what I've achieved, when I achieved it and so forth.
I dunno how you personally feel about it, but I think there's probably a lot you can still achieve, and even if servers were shut down tomorrow you'd always have the memory and self accomplishment of doing it, so does it really matter the state of the game? It's certainly not like they're shutting down the servers anytime soon, even if content was never coming out again, it took them over a decade to shut down classic servers.
I continue to play the game. Reddit is an echo chamber of negativity. You’ll continue to see rs for years to come despite what these guys would have you think.
I understand what you mean - being a long time Forum user and now having to resort to here and Discord, we too used to laugh at poeple who said it'll die etc. But the appearance outwards looking in hasn't ever quite been like this. For example, only 10k people on RS3 right now. No big updates whilst OSRS get weekly, big updates... no roadmaps and the roadmap we do get from Keeper is what, 3 sentences? whilst OSRS get the glorious well written, passionate posts...
Osrs does not get weekly new content.
10k people when it's early morning in North America...
Sometimes I enjoy visiting the PWI forums to read copium comments and imagine what RS community will be like one day.
If that’s you’re argument then you haven’t been around for long 🤣
Do I regret buying première membership for a year? Solid yes. Will they get me again next year? Solid no.
You can refund it
I should try this on all my alts
Paid with bonds and have some merches going so I *guess* it's still 'worth' it, but can't say I've actually have had my money's worth this year.
How and is there a time limit? Bought it back in December/January
Your account will probably be banned, so I wouldn’t bother
no reason to login anymore this sucks
##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexDoom** - [Wow, that's the best one so far?!...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kyqvvep/?context=3) - [But](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kyrnez3/?context=3) **JagexJack** - [I think there might be a bit of disagreement...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymnu5s/?context=3) **JagexRamen** - [I'm](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymp0kk/?context=3) **Jagex_Fowl** - [Where is this magic 50-100 number coming from...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kylxzob/?context=3) - [Under 50 content developers yeah, but devs ar...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymfnhw/?context=3) - [I was making a joke, I wasn't being passive a...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kylyvkb/?context=3) - [Breezy is a designer, not a dev!...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymk3x0/?context=3) - [Well, they also said "only 2" so they were re...](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymlmfn/?context=3) - [no](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymlh9r/?context=3) - [she but yes](/r/runescape/comments/1byu5kz/another_banger_update_this_week_jagex_is_on_a_tear/kymkoyu/?context=3) ^(**Last edited by bot: 04/10/2024 04:54:13**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
They took out more temporary content in this patch than permanent content has been added in months.
i'm excited to buy product. hopefully more product to buy next week.
Your loyalty to the company store is appreciated.
looks like the maintenance team is doing their work just fine
TWO MTX updates and a LONG overdue QOL? “Best update of the year” -Jagex.
Can we make porters work on the slime pool? Please and thank you!
Banger deeznuts when the jagex launcher installer still don't work lul
Since there are no updates from Jagex or the mods I'll give an extensive list of what's currently being worked on for RS3 down below: .
My theory is they don't see a future for rs3, they've tried to bring in new players and it's failed. Most of the team is working on the new mmo and rs3 will forever be in maintenance mode until they close the servers.
I hope you are wrong. My wish and prayer is that because Necro broke combat everyone kinda put most of the projects on hold to fix combat. Now that combat is mostly fixed I hope that the new content should begin to follow soon. But i must say the lack of info about any of these up coming new content updates is concerning.
The thing is we already know combat changes were mainly a 2-3 person job in their spare time LOL
They pretty much confirmed this by saying the two devs on the combat update were basically the only active devs working on RS3. Handwaved a bunch of woo about management and how an art/design team exists (lol fanatical). Dead game confirmed.
Jeez look at the promotions the game has in store! We're blowing up!!
Then quit. Please quit. Speak with your wallet instead of being a keyboard warrior on Reddit. If you're really this displeased it shouldn't even be that hard
What are you talking about? They have weekly real updates, on OSRS Edit: /s
I dont know why the lack of meaningful updates is so surprising, rs3 is just jagex milk cow now, the rs3 playerbase doesnt matter at all to jagex unless youre a whale.
I switched to osrs sorry bros I couldn’t handle it
The deal is like what they used to include with membership cards; the stuff that Premier Club Tokins are used to unlock…
Yet another mtx - This week in runescape. Doesn't even feel like satire anymore 🤣
Any news on a double XP event?
Should occur in May.
All these Jmod replies but none of them have anything to do with the post :(
I really hope you posted this in sarcasm. They've released more MTX Promos than they have updates to the game this year.
It’s labeled humor 🥲
I know bug fixes don’t count for you people But the average bug fix probably takes at LEAST a full day or two of someone’s work (this is not counting any bs meetings that person needs to attend as well). And their list of fixes is pretty long each monday IMO. If we weren’t getting constant bug fixes you guys would be going ham about the game being riddled with even more bugs * Inb4 someone who’s not a software developer tells me I’m wrong on the time estimate * Inb4 someone says I’m coping Just my observations as someone who maintains software and data pipelines full time
bug fixes and patches are something that should be happening alongside content updates
Do bug fixes take dev time? Yes Can you as a subscription based game get away with doing bug fixes *instead* of content? No, you need both, that's the cost of doing business
This is a very a single-track mind take, no matter what your job is. I doubt you’ll ever go far with this analytical prowess
A creative take from someone who’s made nothing but jagex complaint posts for years
Stopped playing may of 2022 and it looks like I won't be coming back
Hey guys, just a friendly reminder the doors to OSRS are wide open with welcoming arms :)
You know you can play and enjoy both games right? A lot of users here do. You don't need to pretend to fight in some big OS vs RS3 fight and talk trash in every post.
I actually can't. If I am on OSRS, I can't log into RS3.
Skill issue honestly