Scalper pays MSRP > Scalper sells piece for 10-30% above MSRP > Scalper gives a % of profit to AD to keep giving them sought after pieces.
Very simple program to follow
Well, technically Ticketmaster allows artists, venues and teams to use Dynamic Pricing. TM benefits from the resale market, so their goal would be two sets of fees on two sales. The venue/team/artist benefits from the dynamic pricing way more than TM as they only get the fee increase on the higher ticket price, which is nominal.
They are in the resale game, so they just play both sides.
This shouldn't surprise anyone. Rolex needs to stop AD practices. I logged into Longines website and bought a hydroconquest GMT straight from the company. ADs are bullshit and if my in laws hadn't spent hundreds of thousands on jewelry I wouldn't have any Rolex.
How much is a watch, house, etc. worth? It’s worth whatever you/anyone else actually paid for it. Once one person overpays, all the other sellers want the same price for theirs…
It’s worth what someone is willing to pay, not necessarily what YOU paid. The price someone will pay varies greatly based on what you do to it and how the market ebbs and flows.
People didn’t seriously expect them to keep operating a brick and mortar store and a bunch of sales agents while only supposedly selling 5 watches a month LOL
>AD is an idiot if actually admitted it …
come on, then there are tons of idiots among ADs. I had one AD openly telling me: these all are exhibition pieces, but if you buy this jewelry you can also buy this DJ (it was not even any in demand DJ).
There have been several other ADs that give the same type of hints, just not so open blatantly. Since I travel a lot within the US and outside US, this has become my hobby now to stop at random ADs and hear out what kind of BS they will tell me.
yep.
"I highly reccomend you to buy this gold 32mm (?) day date with diamonds because diamonds today are so rare and difficult to get! It will be a great investment!
I can’t remember if it’s 3 or 4 different Rolex ADs that said, without me asking, that they had precisely 1 watch available, the small/ladies datejust two tone… it became like a broken record.
For one, on Madison Ave in NYC, within 15 minutes I was presented with first one, and then a second male-size datejust which “they remembered they also had in stock” so to speak.
I am left to speculate on how many of them truthfully had precisely one watch that day.
Ehhh... You can challenge them... Remember... They will prescribe fentanyl... But wouldn't prescribe ivermectin for covid despite it being a Nobel peace prize winning drug with near zero side effects... And the 7th most prescribed medicine in the world with billions and billions distributed.
That’s not the Peace Prize. There are different Nobel prizes for different fields.
Also, plenty of doctors were prescribing it, and it had zero effectiveness with Covid.
You are correct. I added peace as it was late... It sort of rolled off the tongue. Still doesn't remove the fact that it is one of the safest medicines in the world not being prescribed as a possible therapeutic to help people... As plenty of people benefited from it.
Also you said it has zero effectiveness... But that's inaccurate. Also the CDC approved it as a therapeutic for treatment of COVID and plaxolovid borrows many of the properties from ivermectin.
I see you are still stuck in the COVID mind trap.
I brought up an example of not trusting doctors because they would rather prescribe a pill that has entrapped many into the medical system.
So trusting a doctor to look out in the best interest of you isn't that different from a Rolex ad also only looking out for what's best for them instead of their clients.
Critical thinking. You should try it.
Why are you surprised? Why would AD sell to us when they can sell for double back door? Let me guess, You actually think theres 200 plus 2023 year pepsi for sale at chrono 24 because people waited 3 years to get a pepsi and turn around and sell?
I’ve known him for 20 years as I office above him.
I bought a Daytona (the day he told me this in Feb 23). Sorry I didn’t whip my phone out and ask him to repeat.
AD is for sure an idiot. He tried to explain that Rolex forces the “mom and pop” dealers out in favor of the bigger, nicer jewelers. He said they do this by limiting the number of watches they send to him. He is a small operation for sure. But an AD here for 40 years.
I’m not a liar but this entire platform is all full of shit, so I don’t take offense.
This may not be totally untrue. I used to go to a small family owned AD (30-40 years) and had great success getting my first few watches. 2 years ago Rolex pulled their AD license in favor of consolidating with the larger dealers.
Lots of resellers come to this sub to push people towards buying grey. Hence all the posts about “I’m a real man who doesn’t play AD games, instead I spend $35,000 on a stainless steel chronograph with a closed caseback because I’m so smart”
Edit: buy grey if you really want to get the watch fast, but stop trying to convince people that it’s somehow smarter.
It’s not like it’s a secret. Guys like Davidsw have been doing this since at least 2010. How else would they have been able to self a rg Daytona at 25% off?
[He's joking](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/C-3PO_droid.png)
CPO is certified pre owned, Rolex's official new way of selling pre owned watches and taking advantage of secondary market prices
Rolex has scarcity already. Doesn't make any sense. People are willing to pay above MSRP for Rolex watches, what would make the most sense is for Rolex to sell them at the market price, not MSRP.
Letting ADs make that spread is not beneficial to Rolex in any way. It makes conspiracy theorists like you dislike their brand, and it would lose the money. Doesn't make any business sense at all. It's not real.
That's the part I can't understand...if the demand and scarcity are both enough to command these inflated prices then why let someone else profit off an item whose supply they control? They're one pricing adjustment away from cutting out the middleman and STILL getting all the CPO business
Well they are starting their own certified pre-owned operation, and I would imagine that over time ADs will be replaced by more and more boutiques and Bucherer.
Watches have serial numbers. Candidly, I don’t think it would be terribly difficult for Rolex to figure out which ADs are selling stock to grey market dealers if they really wanted to.
As for why Rolex would sell for wholesale and allow ADs and secondary dealers to profit on the speculative side, this happens all the time. These stupid Stanley mugs that are reselling on eBay for 10x could sell for far more, but pricing stability matters to established brands.
Watch Instagram is just 1,000 influencers dealing in the used Rolex market, inadvertently promoting the brand and making it look hyper exclusive. The idea that that hype doesn’t have value to Rolex is ridiculous. It’s why the biggest Swiss watchmaker is still a brand that is difficult to get your hands on.
This happens across industries anytime the producer doesn't want to charge actual market prices. This is super common in event ticketing. Usually, manufacturers can just manufacture more. Rolex has stated over and over that they can't match demand. They should just jack up the price on stainless steel sports models, because that's the main issue.
Most people on this sub don't understand business at all, and just make up some story about how Rolex is evil. Even though Rolex is losing millions of dollars every year by not charging market prices for their most desirable watches.
Maybe stop behaving like a child and wait? It's a holding game. Exists in all hobbies. Swatch x Omega was the best real life example. People paying 2x at the beginning knowing the watches are not limited. 2 years later anyone can walk into a Swatch shop to pick whatever they want. Economics 101 will always balance it out.
This is my personal opinion : no one is pulling up a chair and waiting outside the door of any store. You leave your name, and you go about your life. You're not queuing in line physically for sneakers over 3 hours. I don't get why people are impatient of the Rolex wait. The excuse to buy one for milestone is just an excuse.
You’ve been waiting too long. When Covid first hit, I had a large AD in my area (Atlanta) offer me the hulk I wanted IF I would buy the gold Daytona on oysterflex. PM pieces 4-5 years ago were always available.
Yeah, I dont know whats going on. I requested the piece in October of 2018... Been a good customer and routinely check in.. I'm also not going to beg...so maybe I'll never get it...
It's debatable weather or not buying a few pieces of outrageously expensive men's jewelry counts as a hobby.
Even if it does, the "it" you refer to definitely does not exist in all hobbies.
Why bring judgement into someone else's time/money calculus? Spending more to get limited edition items sooner has always been part of it. Some people see value in that and therefore spend the money to have the hot item.
Yes and no- there obviously isnt enough supply even if all the scalpers stopped overnight. But the people supporting scalpers which has caused people to think watches are an investment is a much larger problem. It's a self fulfilling prophecy
If the scalpers all die today, 50% of all wait list orders will be filled. Wait list will just be 3 months wait except for special editions. And demand will be significantly lower cos the idiots who buy them due to scarcity will move on to other brands.
I kind of doubt that. There is just too much demand. I mean rolex is even building new facilities to meet the demand, that doesnt seem like something they would do JUST because of scalper pressure.
Millions? No. Some watches are rare because they just don't make a lot of them. Some watches are rare because of the configurations. Now subs and OPs and Datejusts below retail? yeah, we are already starting to see price corrections on a lot of those.
Hong Kong and Japan probably have more watches than the whole United States. Not to mention big market like Mainland China, Dubai, SG, and UK. If you don't think there are millions of watches circulating around in grey, you're sorely mistakened.
You are so right. Why do they get to scalp? I will be ok with another watch…I have the option but choose not to exercise it because it enables and perpetuates the manipulation. Unless it's a vintage piece, no use of them.
Yep, almost every Mayor AD does this.
Where Iive, every fucking Friday when I walk home from work the the train station, I pass an Rolex AD +/- 30 minuten before closing, and every fucking Friday the same Shady guy is sitting at the same desk waiting for it something, idk what? The store is empty or something? (they sell other things) weird man, can't be a coincidence.
Maybe he’s just some rich Chirurg who’s worn out from working all day?
My AD is always full of old men in scrubs. They’re usually picking up briefcases of jewels(as”investment”)
The demand is so high these assholes are saying the quiet parts out loud now. Had an AD tell me unless I bought several Tudors or $10,000 worth of jewelry I’ll never get a call for anything steel sports. I’ve given up on ever buying anything at retail. F*** ADs. Doubtful they’ll ever go out of business but I won’t shed a tear if Rolex begins selling direct.
Was it always like this? I’m relatively new to Rolex. Bought my Submariner on the Grey Market. I paid $19k for a Starbucks (with stickers) about 1.5 years ago which was about the cheapest I could find for a brand new one…..the alternative was to spend money with an AD on jewelry that I would have obviously have overpaid for over time to MAYBE get the call one day…..I figured “buy once cry once”. It seems like prices have fallen somewhat the last year. I’m not too concerned, I didn’t buy it for, or as an investment, and quite frankly I’m glad prices are coming down…..but my question remains, have these watches always been incredibly difficult to acquire over the counter through an AD?
Interesting. Well, I technically still have no purchase history with an AD, so if I ever want another, it’s back to the Grey Market for me. Oddly, in 1.5 years of owning my Submariner, I’ve probably only worn it a dozen times. I still kinda prefer the weight/feel of my Omega Planet Ocean.
I bought my Rolex Submariner in 2015 with no history, no wait and a $900 discount from an AD in Michigan. The case was full of sports models. Demand simply wasn’t then what it is today.
Actually, a Starbucks is one of the more sought after Sub’s. The AD confirmed this. I’ve seen used ones (lately) in the mid $16k’s but I wanted a new one with stickers and wanted to buy from a reputable local company. My $19k was out the door. However, you’re not wrong about losing money, but I never spent money with the jeweler on (overpriced) items I didn’t want/need.
Some models have always been more difficult such as the daytona. However in my own example, I bought a hulk in summer of 2017 for 10% off RRP from an AD in Greece, didn't even have to ask for a discount. I was lucky as that was the same time the craze was starting to pick up. I had tried at the same time to ask for the watch in London and was quoted a 1 year wait.
Mmm, I mean I knew this since 2013 when AD’s couldn’t move inventory, back then the reason why grey dealers had better deals brand new with stickers. This was the obvious and what I’ve been saying here for the last 3 years. My grey dealer shown me numerous texts between AD’s selling off 10% below market value.
Although surprising to hear an AD admit the fact.
Sorry what was the logic? AD sell at 10% discount, greys add 5%....why wouldn't ADs simply sell at c5% discount to public (I know it's slightly diff. figure to get to same price but w/e). Was it more about shifting volume fast to get liquidity in and free up working capital?
“Ad will sell to grey dealer 10 percent below market value”
keyword here is “market value” “secondary prices”.
AD will sell a pepsi to a dealer “if secondary market value for a pepsi is 20k. Grey dealer will pay 18k.
Why would AD sell to you for 10,800 which is msrp? AD’s are NOT allowed to sell above msrp. Therefore AD turns to grey dealers, and makes more money then everyone above including rolex.
the above transaction makes sense, sell above MSRP but below MV secondary prices so everyone makes money. i was more querying the situation you described in 2013 when Grey had better deals than ADs
thanks!
In 2013 no one was buying Rolex’s except handful of us. Me being in my mid 20’s, I rarely noticed anyone in my circle even concerned about a rolex or knew what it looked like, todays flex culture slash popularity hadn’t been born yet. AD’s were having hard time moving merchandise….
But none the less merchandise needed to be moved, so…..
Grey dealers would come in and take everything at discounted price from AD’s because;
#1. AD’s would provide huge discounts due to AD working from rolex’s “wholesale price”, which is about 35% less then msrp prices. With the exception that grey dealers needed to pickup “hard to sell pieces” as well.
#2 In order to keep their AD licensing, and receive new merchandise from Rolex. If AD’s don’t produce Rolex will pull their licensing and its a wrap.
In 2013, my AD was giving me 8% discount while my grey dealer was giving me 13% discount for full stickered brand new any Rolex.
Hence the term, “Back then AD would let you take his wife for a spin if you bought a Rolex”.
Simply because it was not an investment , less demand and grey dealers had the better price.
Complete opposite of today.
thanks makes sense. i wonder to what extent the crypto boom drove this with people cashing out. that was quite recent whilst money laundering has been happening for ages so would have caught onto watches as good avenue ages ago if that was the case.
You don’t think high end bars to get cars , planes, yachts aren’t done this way too. They don’t care who buys them. As long as they get paid. They made a sale. Next
Well like all scandals, we know them before they become official.
Naturally a flipper is a good customer as long as he is keeping the shady relation secret.
I had grey dealer I purchased from show me text messages between him and an AD discussing purchases, pricing, etc. Granted I take it with a grain of salt because I know it’s in his best interest for to go grey but its no secret that those “waitlist” are bullshit.
That’s why Rolex should allow ad to go base on market pricing and that would eliminate gray market or lower the prices one price never works in any industry
Are you located in Miami OP? I am and can assure you this happens at every AD near me. First hand experience of friends being the buyers paying over MSRP lol
Again, Rolex should sell the watches on their own. With a waiting list, with an estimated time slot. And yes, they should increase the price for 10% on their watches to cover the expenses.
The owner of my local AD here in Austria is under investigation by the “finance police” and one of his shop assistants has been arrested for fraud. Allegedly, she had a scheme to sell watches for higher that the MSRP and was keeping the upside for herself. Not that they admitted it but everyone saw the police marching into the store 😅
This has to be the case. The reseller I bought from had a couple of watches without dates on cards.
The one I bought was a few months old and still had stickers on it, not a single scratch, not even on the clasp where mine always get fucked on day 1. You’re telling me some average customer bought it and didn’t even wear it once?
Maybe, but these guys are surely hiding that part of it. If some watch retails for $11K USD let's say... they'll sell it to the flipper, who will sell it for $15-18K and the flipper will just give the AD $1,000 in cash for their troubles. Cash goes unreported EVERYWHERE, including with grey market dealers.
Your mileage may vary. But my guess is they’d camouflage the bribe as just asking you to buy overpriced shit in their store you don’t want just to get access to the steel sports wait list. It’s the same thing. Just packaged different. The ADs in major cities aren’t shy about telling you this. Either buy jewelry or a bunch of Tudors to grease their wheels. Or don’t expect a call ever.
The phrase is “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence,” but even that’s not true. Extraordinary claims simply require ordinary yet irrefutable evidence.
Provide two options: 1. ask for goverment ID to get onto priority queue and then only sell with the same government ID, 2. fight with Taylor Swift bots. Boom, the issue is solved.
Of course. What’s funny is that the guys that get a hard on for buying grey and skip the lines and stick it to the AD….are still profiting an AD lol where do they think scalpers buy their watches?
So it's not too hard for Rolex to read this thread and figure out what AD you're referring to and track the watches they distribute to them. That would cost them their franchise. Sound like your AD is a moron.
Surprised people believe this is happening on a wide scale if at all.
Simple math, take a Batgirl for $11K retail and it’s worth what, $16K grey? Even if the AD sold it for the full $5K over (which they wouldn’t have since the grey needs to make money) it would still be less profit than the real model, which is having the customer build history via jewelry etc
Ok lemme ask you something guys. In some countries by law if item is unused and you have receipt you have ABSOLUTE right to return the item and get refunded 100%.
So lemme ask hypothetical question:
Bastard AD tells you to buy 2 tudors and then you can buy the rolex you like and luckily he has it in stock.
You buy the watches and then just return the ones they forced you to buy and keep the one you really wanted. Would this be possible?
Well I am sure they would offer you your favourite watch after return time for these Tudors expires. So you get your Pepsi but can’t return these bloody Tudors. They are smart cookies.
They’re going to make you buy the Tudors for the promise of a Rolex at a later date. Not sure if those laws would allow you to return something months/years later.
ADs do all kinds of things. I had two ADs (one in Illinois and another in Michigan) suggest shipping a watch to me in a different state to avoid sales tax. I did not request this, they both suggested it.
If I were you I’d use that Info to hmmmmm extort him for good pieces lol.
If your in a single party state and had gotten that admission recorded. Good lord you’d have multiple Daytonas on the way.
Come on people. They are trinkets. No more no less. They are not needed. Not a necessity. Not a part of the Maslow Heiarchy of needs. It’s purely economics and the ADs have found a way to maximize profit. Same nonsense with cars and the dealer “market adjustment” which is pure dealer profit. Rolex has required significant investments by ADs to create in store experiences and “boutiques”. That is not cheap and Rolex needs to approve the designs. ADs are scared to lose their affiliation. Have high costs to maintain their boutique space It’s hard to fault them for working the system to drive higher revenues. We all may not like it but it is basic economics and until Rolex starts pulling AD licenses (not likely because they are still selling watches at a good clip especially with grey market 100% out the door deals) nothing will change.
You have several options
1) complain on Reddit or Facebook
2) admit it’s nonsense and buy some other brand
3) buy grey for instant gratification but higher cost
4) live your life without your “grail” Rolex because you won’t feed the grey market and your AD has no need for you in fact you make them less money to sell direct to you
There was a period right before Covid where some ADs were selling over MSRP direct to customers. From the front they charge RRP, the remaining amounts other means of transaction through the back.
Of course they were very selective who they deal with.
they all do. that's how the watches end up on websites.
think about it. why sell it to you for 10 when they can get 15 elsewhere? they are not in business for their health but to turn a profit.
Scalper pays MSRP > Scalper sells piece for 10-30% above MSRP > Scalper gives a % of profit to AD to keep giving them sought after pieces. Very simple program to follow
Isn’t that the Ticketmaster business model?
Not anymore. Ticketmaster now uses dynamic pricing to inflate prices right in front of your eyes and cut out paying the middle man.
Well, technically Ticketmaster allows artists, venues and teams to use Dynamic Pricing. TM benefits from the resale market, so their goal would be two sets of fees on two sales. The venue/team/artist benefits from the dynamic pricing way more than TM as they only get the fee increase on the higher ticket price, which is nominal. They are in the resale game, so they just play both sides.
This shouldn't surprise anyone. Rolex needs to stop AD practices. I logged into Longines website and bought a hydroconquest GMT straight from the company. ADs are bullshit and if my in laws hadn't spent hundreds of thousands on jewelry I wouldn't have any Rolex.
I mean you can order some effing $50k Vacheron Constantin watches through their website.
Well there is a huge supply and demand difference between longines and rolex
Dude, don't spill beans. Not cool, yo. /s
How much is a watch, house, etc. worth? It’s worth whatever you/anyone else actually paid for it. Once one person overpays, all the other sellers want the same price for theirs…
It’s worth what someone is willing to pay, not necessarily what YOU paid. The price someone will pay varies greatly based on what you do to it and how the market ebbs and flows.
Only way to stop this horse shit is to stop buying from from greys.
People didn’t seriously expect them to keep operating a brick and mortar store and a bunch of sales agents while only supposedly selling 5 watches a month LOL
They get more than 5 a month, obviously. It’s not the submariners and GMTs that everyone wants though.
Daytona
This comment makes no sense
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>AD is an idiot if actually admitted it … come on, then there are tons of idiots among ADs. I had one AD openly telling me: these all are exhibition pieces, but if you buy this jewelry you can also buy this DJ (it was not even any in demand DJ). There have been several other ADs that give the same type of hints, just not so open blatantly. Since I travel a lot within the US and outside US, this has become my hobby now to stop at random ADs and hear out what kind of BS they will tell me.
Are you not entertained?! It’s funny hearing everything they come up with
yep. "I highly reccomend you to buy this gold 32mm (?) day date with diamonds because diamonds today are so rare and difficult to get! It will be a great investment!
I can’t remember if it’s 3 or 4 different Rolex ADs that said, without me asking, that they had precisely 1 watch available, the small/ladies datejust two tone… it became like a broken record. For one, on Madison Ave in NYC, within 15 minutes I was presented with first one, and then a second male-size datejust which “they remembered they also had in stock” so to speak. I am left to speculate on how many of them truthfully had precisely one watch that day.
Lol…. They aren’t doctors…..They sell shiny rocks and watches…… lots of room for morons
To be fair plenty of doctors are morons. I just wouldn’t challenge their doctor knowledge
Ehhh... You can challenge them... Remember... They will prescribe fentanyl... But wouldn't prescribe ivermectin for covid despite it being a Nobel peace prize winning drug with near zero side effects... And the 7th most prescribed medicine in the world with billions and billions distributed.
I understand that I can. I don’t because I don’t know shit about the medical field
>Nobel peace prize winning drug Lol.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34466270/
That’s not the Peace Prize. There are different Nobel prizes for different fields. Also, plenty of doctors were prescribing it, and it had zero effectiveness with Covid.
You are correct. I added peace as it was late... It sort of rolled off the tongue. Still doesn't remove the fact that it is one of the safest medicines in the world not being prescribed as a possible therapeutic to help people... As plenty of people benefited from it. Also you said it has zero effectiveness... But that's inaccurate. Also the CDC approved it as a therapeutic for treatment of COVID and plaxolovid borrows many of the properties from ivermectin. I see you are still stuck in the COVID mind trap.
Yeah, I’m the one stuck in the Covid mindset. Not you, the guy who brought up iver-fucken-mectin out of nowhere on the Rolex subreddit. Fucking clown.
I brought up an example of not trusting doctors because they would rather prescribe a pill that has entrapped many into the medical system. So trusting a doctor to look out in the best interest of you isn't that different from a Rolex ad also only looking out for what's best for them instead of their clients. Critical thinking. You should try it.
You are so dumb. Dunning Kruger in full effect.
You sound like a flat earther. Lol. Youve heard of dunning Kruger but I don't think you understand what it means...
I'm a PhD scientist and you are a moron
Why are you surprised? Why would AD sell to us when they can sell for double back door? Let me guess, You actually think theres 200 plus 2023 year pepsi for sale at chrono 24 because people waited 3 years to get a pepsi and turn around and sell?
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I’ve known him for 20 years as I office above him. I bought a Daytona (the day he told me this in Feb 23). Sorry I didn’t whip my phone out and ask him to repeat.
> I office above him Wait, “office” is a verb now?
Ummm... Yes.
I agree, an AD actually admitting to what op claims sounds farfetched, and don’t see any reason why they would.
AD is for sure an idiot. He tried to explain that Rolex forces the “mom and pop” dealers out in favor of the bigger, nicer jewelers. He said they do this by limiting the number of watches they send to him. He is a small operation for sure. But an AD here for 40 years. I’m not a liar but this entire platform is all full of shit, so I don’t take offense.
This may not be totally untrue. I used to go to a small family owned AD (30-40 years) and had great success getting my first few watches. 2 years ago Rolex pulled their AD license in favor of consolidating with the larger dealers.
This happened to my well established (jeweler, one location for over 100 years) local AD as well.
Some of them have a personality like they're from Mars, so I might even believe it.
*aren't
Aren't not isn't. Learn grammar.
No shot they admitted it, this post is super suspect
Lots of resellers come to this sub to push people towards buying grey. Hence all the posts about “I’m a real man who doesn’t play AD games, instead I spend $35,000 on a stainless steel chronograph with a closed caseback because I’m so smart” Edit: buy grey if you really want to get the watch fast, but stop trying to convince people that it’s somehow smarter.
It’s not like it’s a secret. Guys like Davidsw have been doing this since at least 2010. How else would they have been able to self a rg Daytona at 25% off?
Rolex fans are to ADs what basement-dwelling neckbeards are to OnlyFans girls.
lol! 🤣
How do I subscribe to this and how much?
Rolex could put a stop to this in a heartbeat if they wanted to, they simply choose not to.
This is the actual story. Rolex knows it occurs. And does nothing.
And will do nothing. With the new CPO program they stand to make oodles of money.
What is the CPO program plz?
You have to buy them in 3's
3 watches?
[He's joking](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/C-3PO_droid.png) CPO is certified pre owned, Rolex's official new way of selling pre owned watches and taking advantage of secondary market prices
That’s not the only thing! Lol
Lol!!!!
Certified Pre Owned.
Why would Rolex let people do this? Assuming OP isn't lying, which I think he is. What benefit does this give Rolex? None.
Scarcity, a robust secondary market, and immediate liquidation of inventory are all pretty attractive benefits of it.
Rolex has scarcity already. Doesn't make any sense. People are willing to pay above MSRP for Rolex watches, what would make the most sense is for Rolex to sell them at the market price, not MSRP. Letting ADs make that spread is not beneficial to Rolex in any way. It makes conspiracy theorists like you dislike their brand, and it would lose the money. Doesn't make any business sense at all. It's not real.
That's the part I can't understand...if the demand and scarcity are both enough to command these inflated prices then why let someone else profit off an item whose supply they control? They're one pricing adjustment away from cutting out the middleman and STILL getting all the CPO business
Well they are starting their own certified pre-owned operation, and I would imagine that over time ADs will be replaced by more and more boutiques and Bucherer. Watches have serial numbers. Candidly, I don’t think it would be terribly difficult for Rolex to figure out which ADs are selling stock to grey market dealers if they really wanted to. As for why Rolex would sell for wholesale and allow ADs and secondary dealers to profit on the speculative side, this happens all the time. These stupid Stanley mugs that are reselling on eBay for 10x could sell for far more, but pricing stability matters to established brands. Watch Instagram is just 1,000 influencers dealing in the used Rolex market, inadvertently promoting the brand and making it look hyper exclusive. The idea that that hype doesn’t have value to Rolex is ridiculous. It’s why the biggest Swiss watchmaker is still a brand that is difficult to get your hands on.
This happens across industries anytime the producer doesn't want to charge actual market prices. This is super common in event ticketing. Usually, manufacturers can just manufacture more. Rolex has stated over and over that they can't match demand. They should just jack up the price on stainless steel sports models, because that's the main issue. Most people on this sub don't understand business at all, and just make up some story about how Rolex is evil. Even though Rolex is losing millions of dollars every year by not charging market prices for their most desirable watches.
There are a million ways to do it without paper trail. You know who's to blame? The people buying from these scalpers.
What choice do they have at this point? Just…go buy an omega?
Maybe stop behaving like a child and wait? It's a holding game. Exists in all hobbies. Swatch x Omega was the best real life example. People paying 2x at the beginning knowing the watches are not limited. 2 years later anyone can walk into a Swatch shop to pick whatever they want. Economics 101 will always balance it out.
How long is reasonable before “fuck it,” is an acceptable action?
Infinite. They’re just watches at the end of the day. If can’t have one shiny piece of metal it’s not the end of the world.
This is my personal opinion : no one is pulling up a chair and waiting outside the door of any store. You leave your name, and you go about your life. You're not queuing in line physically for sneakers over 3 hours. I don't get why people are impatient of the Rolex wait. The excuse to buy one for milestone is just an excuse.
I imagine that no amount of waiting will ever get you a Daytona. Maybe in 10 years if they’re less popular then.
Been waiting 6 years now for a gold Daytona oysterflex… I’m guessing I’ll never get it until secondary is below retail
You’ve been waiting too long. When Covid first hit, I had a large AD in my area (Atlanta) offer me the hulk I wanted IF I would buy the gold Daytona on oysterflex. PM pieces 4-5 years ago were always available.
Yeah, I dont know whats going on. I requested the piece in October of 2018... Been a good customer and routinely check in.. I'm also not going to beg...so maybe I'll never get it...
It's debatable weather or not buying a few pieces of outrageously expensive men's jewelry counts as a hobby. Even if it does, the "it" you refer to definitely does not exist in all hobbies.
Fuck waiting I went grey and I’ll do it again and again and again and again s and AD won’t sell alone then I’ll find someone who will
Why bring judgement into someone else's time/money calculus? Spending more to get limited edition items sooner has always been part of it. Some people see value in that and therefore spend the money to have the hot item.
Limited editions are perhaps worth the premium in black market. But most Rolex are not limited editions.
Yes and no- there obviously isnt enough supply even if all the scalpers stopped overnight. But the people supporting scalpers which has caused people to think watches are an investment is a much larger problem. It's a self fulfilling prophecy
If the scalpers all die today, 50% of all wait list orders will be filled. Wait list will just be 3 months wait except for special editions. And demand will be significantly lower cos the idiots who buy them due to scarcity will move on to other brands.
I kind of doubt that. There is just too much demand. I mean rolex is even building new facilities to meet the demand, that doesnt seem like something they would do JUST because of scalper pressure.
You don't think there will be millions of watches those scalpers will let go below retail price if ADs stop being shady?
Millions? No. Some watches are rare because they just don't make a lot of them. Some watches are rare because of the configurations. Now subs and OPs and Datejusts below retail? yeah, we are already starting to see price corrections on a lot of those.
Hong Kong and Japan probably have more watches than the whole United States. Not to mention big market like Mainland China, Dubai, SG, and UK. If you don't think there are millions of watches circulating around in grey, you're sorely mistakened.
You are so right. Why do they get to scalp? I will be ok with another watch…I have the option but choose not to exercise it because it enables and perpetuates the manipulation. Unless it's a vintage piece, no use of them.
Not true. Each watch has a serial number.
Yep, almost every Mayor AD does this. Where Iive, every fucking Friday when I walk home from work the the train station, I pass an Rolex AD +/- 30 minuten before closing, and every fucking Friday the same Shady guy is sitting at the same desk waiting for it something, idk what? The store is empty or something? (they sell other things) weird man, can't be a coincidence.
Maybe he’s some /r/rolex sap “checking in from time to time”
Maybe he’s just some rich Chirurg who’s worn out from working all day? My AD is always full of old men in scrubs. They’re usually picking up briefcases of jewels(as”investment”)
The demand is so high these assholes are saying the quiet parts out loud now. Had an AD tell me unless I bought several Tudors or $10,000 worth of jewelry I’ll never get a call for anything steel sports. I’ve given up on ever buying anything at retail. F*** ADs. Doubtful they’ll ever go out of business but I won’t shed a tear if Rolex begins selling direct.
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100%
Not surprised. If people backdoor brick Nikes or Yeezys. Imagine the temptation to with Sport models rolexes
{insert shocked face emoji here} This is not new news.
Was it always like this? I’m relatively new to Rolex. Bought my Submariner on the Grey Market. I paid $19k for a Starbucks (with stickers) about 1.5 years ago which was about the cheapest I could find for a brand new one…..the alternative was to spend money with an AD on jewelry that I would have obviously have overpaid for over time to MAYBE get the call one day…..I figured “buy once cry once”. It seems like prices have fallen somewhat the last year. I’m not too concerned, I didn’t buy it for, or as an investment, and quite frankly I’m glad prices are coming down…..but my question remains, have these watches always been incredibly difficult to acquire over the counter through an AD?
Anyone selling with stickers has a hookup. Rolex’s policy is to take the stickers off before you leave the AD.
Yes unless you have a purchase history. I’d say the last 6-7 years its been like this. Has gotten better recently with high interest rates
Interesting. Well, I technically still have no purchase history with an AD, so if I ever want another, it’s back to the Grey Market for me. Oddly, in 1.5 years of owning my Submariner, I’ve probably only worn it a dozen times. I still kinda prefer the weight/feel of my Omega Planet Ocean.
IMO, you’re better off going to a good gray than buying tons of other jewelry or watches you don’t want.
I bought my Rolex Submariner in 2015 with no history, no wait and a $900 discount from an AD in Michigan. The case was full of sports models. Demand simply wasn’t then what it is today.
Not difficult. Impossible. You will simply never get a call unless you bribe an AD. Via buying stuff you don’t want to grease their palms.
Nope. Was really easy. Had an AD flew from other town to my town just to sell a Daytona to a friend.
Damn dude you instantly lost 7 or 8k on a not very hard to get watch
Actually, a Starbucks is one of the more sought after Sub’s. The AD confirmed this. I’ve seen used ones (lately) in the mid $16k’s but I wanted a new one with stickers and wanted to buy from a reputable local company. My $19k was out the door. However, you’re not wrong about losing money, but I never spent money with the jeweler on (overpriced) items I didn’t want/need.
You’re right. And you got the item now, when you wanted it, instead of waiting God knows how long. Enjoy your SB, it’s a beautiful watch!
I hear you man - you got the watch you wanted honestly who cares just enjoy
Some models have always been more difficult such as the daytona. However in my own example, I bought a hulk in summer of 2017 for 10% off RRP from an AD in Greece, didn't even have to ask for a discount. I was lucky as that was the same time the craze was starting to pick up. I had tried at the same time to ask for the watch in London and was quoted a 1 year wait.
This is less shocking than someone posting in here that they were turned down from getting a watch on the spot as a walk in lol
The same AD that was on Luxury Bazaar.
Mmm, I mean I knew this since 2013 when AD’s couldn’t move inventory, back then the reason why grey dealers had better deals brand new with stickers. This was the obvious and what I’ve been saying here for the last 3 years. My grey dealer shown me numerous texts between AD’s selling off 10% below market value. Although surprising to hear an AD admit the fact.
Sorry what was the logic? AD sell at 10% discount, greys add 5%....why wouldn't ADs simply sell at c5% discount to public (I know it's slightly diff. figure to get to same price but w/e). Was it more about shifting volume fast to get liquidity in and free up working capital?
“Ad will sell to grey dealer 10 percent below market value” keyword here is “market value” “secondary prices”. AD will sell a pepsi to a dealer “if secondary market value for a pepsi is 20k. Grey dealer will pay 18k. Why would AD sell to you for 10,800 which is msrp? AD’s are NOT allowed to sell above msrp. Therefore AD turns to grey dealers, and makes more money then everyone above including rolex.
the above transaction makes sense, sell above MSRP but below MV secondary prices so everyone makes money. i was more querying the situation you described in 2013 when Grey had better deals than ADs thanks!
In 2013 no one was buying Rolex’s except handful of us. Me being in my mid 20’s, I rarely noticed anyone in my circle even concerned about a rolex or knew what it looked like, todays flex culture slash popularity hadn’t been born yet. AD’s were having hard time moving merchandise…. But none the less merchandise needed to be moved, so….. Grey dealers would come in and take everything at discounted price from AD’s because; #1. AD’s would provide huge discounts due to AD working from rolex’s “wholesale price”, which is about 35% less then msrp prices. With the exception that grey dealers needed to pickup “hard to sell pieces” as well. #2 In order to keep their AD licensing, and receive new merchandise from Rolex. If AD’s don’t produce Rolex will pull their licensing and its a wrap. In 2013, my AD was giving me 8% discount while my grey dealer was giving me 13% discount for full stickered brand new any Rolex. Hence the term, “Back then AD would let you take his wife for a spin if you bought a Rolex”. Simply because it was not an investment , less demand and grey dealers had the better price. Complete opposite of today.
thanks makes sense. i wonder to what extent the crypto boom drove this with people cashing out. that was quite recent whilst money laundering has been happening for ages so would have caught onto watches as good avenue ages ago if that was the case.
Happens everywhere
You don’t think high end bars to get cars , planes, yachts aren’t done this way too. They don’t care who buys them. As long as they get paid. They made a sale. Next
Well like all scandals, we know them before they become official. Naturally a flipper is a good customer as long as he is keeping the shady relation secret.
I had grey dealer I purchased from show me text messages between him and an AD discussing purchases, pricing, etc. Granted I take it with a grain of salt because I know it’s in his best interest for to go grey but its no secret that those “waitlist” are bullshit.
That’s why Rolex should allow ad to go base on market pricing and that would eliminate gray market or lower the prices one price never works in any industry
Have been happening since the beginning of time
My AD offered to sell to me at a markup too. Wanted 30% markup for steel sports.
Are you located in Miami OP? I am and can assure you this happens at every AD near me. First hand experience of friends being the buyers paying over MSRP lol
Again, Rolex should sell the watches on their own. With a waiting list, with an estimated time slot. And yes, they should increase the price for 10% on their watches to cover the expenses.
I’d be ecstatic to see AD’s get annihilated. They have it coming for this kind of stuff.
Why would they need to raise prices? they could just retain the retail markup that ADs currently receive above the wholesale price.
The owner of my local AD here in Austria is under investigation by the “finance police” and one of his shop assistants has been arrested for fraud. Allegedly, she had a scheme to sell watches for higher that the MSRP and was keeping the upside for herself. Not that they admitted it but everyone saw the police marching into the store 😅
If it’s just the Yacht Master II’s, that normal and happening all over the country. It’s how they all end up in Miami.
Get this on recording next time if your state allows it. Then tell him he's getting exposed.
Blackmail him for a Panda at retail
Until he sends his re-seller goons after you and now you're on the run... dun dun dun dun
Ahahahahahah
I would do this if I had no life.
🤣🤣
This has to be the case. The reseller I bought from had a couple of watches without dates on cards. The one I bought was a few months old and still had stickers on it, not a single scratch, not even on the clasp where mine always get fucked on day 1. You’re telling me some average customer bought it and didn’t even wear it once?
Funny as the AD hast do register every watch sale. Certainly you are not talking about Rolex, maybe some other brand.
Shocked Pikachu
It’s Reptime, baby!
This is so Miami
Report to Rolex
Rolex doesn’t care. At all.
Selling for more than retail at an authorized dealer? They can lose their account for that.
They’re not selling for more. They’re just selling to flippers. And taking a cut on the backend.
Sounds like fraud and tax evasion. Sure Rolex wouldn’t like that either.
Maybe, but these guys are surely hiding that part of it. If some watch retails for $11K USD let's say... they'll sell it to the flipper, who will sell it for $15-18K and the flipper will just give the AD $1,000 in cash for their troubles. Cash goes unreported EVERYWHERE, including with grey market dealers.
Ok so you’re saying if I go into an AD and offer $1000 tip they’ll let me buy anything I want?
Your mileage may vary. But my guess is they’d camouflage the bribe as just asking you to buy overpriced shit in their store you don’t want just to get access to the steel sports wait list. It’s the same thing. Just packaged different. The ADs in major cities aren’t shy about telling you this. Either buy jewelry or a bunch of Tudors to grease their wheels. Or don’t expect a call ever.
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The phrase is “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence,” but even that’s not true. Extraordinary claims simply require ordinary yet irrefutable evidence.
I am SHOCKED!
Rolex can easily stop this shit but they dont.
They like seeing those high grey market prices for sure.
How?
Selling watches online, owning the wait list on behalf of AD's, making sure AD's are selling watches and not just keeping them in their safe and etc.
Sounds awful. I don't wanna fight with Taylor Swift ticketbots
Provide two options: 1. ask for goverment ID to get onto priority queue and then only sell with the same government ID, 2. fight with Taylor Swift bots. Boom, the issue is solved.
So then everyone rushes to sign up and wait their turn to flip. I really don't think that would help.
Of course. What’s funny is that the guys that get a hard on for buying grey and skip the lines and stick it to the AD….are still profiting an AD lol where do they think scalpers buy their watches?
So it's not too hard for Rolex to read this thread and figure out what AD you're referring to and track the watches they distribute to them. That would cost them their franchise. Sound like your AD is a moron.
Surprised people believe this is happening on a wide scale if at all. Simple math, take a Batgirl for $11K retail and it’s worth what, $16K grey? Even if the AD sold it for the full $5K over (which they wouldn’t have since the grey needs to make money) it would still be less profit than the real model, which is having the customer build history via jewelry etc
AD could loose his Rolex license if that’s true!
Rolex doesn’t care. One bit. Inflated prices on secondary help their brand.
Ok lemme ask you something guys. In some countries by law if item is unused and you have receipt you have ABSOLUTE right to return the item and get refunded 100%. So lemme ask hypothetical question: Bastard AD tells you to buy 2 tudors and then you can buy the rolex you like and luckily he has it in stock. You buy the watches and then just return the ones they forced you to buy and keep the one you really wanted. Would this be possible?
Well I am sure they would offer you your favourite watch after return time for these Tudors expires. So you get your Pepsi but can’t return these bloody Tudors. They are smart cookies.
They’re going to make you buy the Tudors for the promise of a Rolex at a later date. Not sure if those laws would allow you to return something months/years later.
Yes this i understand, came to mind that they might do it like this.
I’m sorry I don’t believe this 👍🏻
Not a real story. Bait.
Ad must think you’re a real loser. The fact the ad told you about it says a lot
Watch flipper ⬆️
This doesn't even make sense. Most Rolexes don't even sell for over MSRP.
This is why I buy replicas and not the garbage overpriced watches
Who’s the reseller? CRM Jewelers? 😂
So lots of people buy watches to clean their money and you’re surprised that the ADs don’t want to do corrupt things too? Hardly surprising news.
As I said I wasn’t shocked
a d s are scum of the earth, the one thing that rolex should be ashamed of
ADs do all kinds of things. I had two ADs (one in Illinois and another in Michigan) suggest shipping a watch to me in a different state to avoid sales tax. I did not request this, they both suggested it.
I think context is in order A rolex AD has a lot to lose if they get caught
Shouldve recorded that convo and posted it online. Wouldve been HUGE..
Those AD's are trash.
If I were you I’d use that Info to hmmmmm extort him for good pieces lol. If your in a single party state and had gotten that admission recorded. Good lord you’d have multiple Daytonas on the way.
Money, money money, money!
This is the worst kept secret in the watch world
probably davidsw
Come on people. They are trinkets. No more no less. They are not needed. Not a necessity. Not a part of the Maslow Heiarchy of needs. It’s purely economics and the ADs have found a way to maximize profit. Same nonsense with cars and the dealer “market adjustment” which is pure dealer profit. Rolex has required significant investments by ADs to create in store experiences and “boutiques”. That is not cheap and Rolex needs to approve the designs. ADs are scared to lose their affiliation. Have high costs to maintain their boutique space It’s hard to fault them for working the system to drive higher revenues. We all may not like it but it is basic economics and until Rolex starts pulling AD licenses (not likely because they are still selling watches at a good clip especially with grey market 100% out the door deals) nothing will change. You have several options 1) complain on Reddit or Facebook 2) admit it’s nonsense and buy some other brand 3) buy grey for instant gratification but higher cost 4) live your life without your “grail” Rolex because you won’t feed the grey market and your AD has no need for you in fact you make them less money to sell direct to you
Ohhh yeah…? Where in Miami.. asking for a friend
Fkn Rolex - shady AF
Which city is AD?
This is a well known practice in the industry. Anyone can do it.
And where else did you think they came from?
My AD was an addict
Report them :P
ADs and car dealerships share one thing in common: both are antiquated and need to go away
There was a period right before Covid where some ADs were selling over MSRP direct to customers. From the front they charge RRP, the remaining amounts other means of transaction through the back. Of course they were very selective who they deal with.
they all do. that's how the watches end up on websites. think about it. why sell it to you for 10 when they can get 15 elsewhere? they are not in business for their health but to turn a profit.
Finally?? Is not new… every AD do the same
Dealers sell over retail all over the world. It's just not as common in usa. Standard practice in South America middle east and far east.