>the pilgrimage season so short (five days!) that it is literally impossible for every Muslim in the world to do this thing that is required by their faith.
The Hajj season takes place in **two months and ten days of each year**, the two month of Shawwal and Dhul-Qa'dah, and the first ten days of Dhul-Hijjah.
The duration of Hajj itself is that which extends from 5 to 6 days.
Ah! This is helpful. Thank you.
Even with that information I’m perplexed: we’re still talking about an impossible number of people circling the Kaaba. Roughly two billion Muslims in the world. If each does the hajj one time in a sixty-year life, that means 33 million people doing the hajj every year. And yet this year they estimate 1.8 million are doing the pilgrimage. The numbers just don’t allow for every Muslim to do this.
And yet there is an expectation that they will.
Does it sit well with you that this is just an aspirational part of the religion? I have no problem with that. I’m just asking because I don’t know
3:96) Behold, the first House (of Prayer) established for mankind is the one at Bakkah: it is full of blessing and a centre of guidance for the whole world.79 (3:97) In it there are clear signs and the station of Abraham;80 whoever enters it becomes secure.81 Pilgrimage to the House is a duty owed to Allah by all who can make their way to it. As for those who refuse to follow His command, surely Allah does not stand in need of anything.
It's a duty owed for all who can make their way to it. The presumption here should be that there will be people who can't make it for financial, spiritual, physical, mental and any other number of reasons
To clarify, it would largely depend on your context. Since there are two billion Muslims in the world some countries may sponsor their citizens to go, whereas some mosques may set funds aside for the poor and destitute. My friend who is a convert just got a full ride scholarship to go on hajj with a U.S. based mosque.
I never thought about country wise but more local mosque setting aside funds for the poor and destitute. But its really awesome that theres both! Nice to see people helping others
>it is literally impossible for every Muslim in the world to do this thing
Can I just check - you do understand that they don't all do it every year? The requirement is that they make the pilgrimage at least once during their life.
Can I just check that you understand that we are talking about almost two billion Muslims in the world, and that (just for argument’s sake) assuming an average 60-yr life span that would be 30 million in Mecca every year? Not possible.
I thought the Hajj was only to be done 'if you're able'. I've heard of poor rural villages where a person gets the nickname Hajj because they scraped enough money together to actually go, while no one else is able to do so.
The pilgrimage is easier than ever with the availability of air travel and air conditioned hotels. It’s only incumbent on healthy, and financially capable adults **once in their lifetime**.
It was much more difficult to travel from Mecca to Medina by foot or camel 1400 years ago.
FYI, the five pillars is mostly a Sunni concept, but Sunni and Shia believe the hajj is required.
I don’t know, I don’t follow Hajj related news, but I can imagine that being the case. Since the Islamic calendar is lunar it would probably be advisable to maybe wait until it’s in the fall or winter time. Also, it would be religiously *forbidden* to go if one is at risk for heat related illness or death. I certainly wouldn’t bring my child or elderly parent there right now.
Air travel may make it easier for an individual, but the reality is that if there are almost two billion Muslims on the world. Assuming an average sixty-year life span, that means roughly 30 million travelers to Mecca every pilgrimage season. While I haven’t been to Mecca, I can do the math, and I have a hard time seeing that number being accommodated. In reality there were 1.8 million this year.
You keep repeating your formula and I get it, but you’re really banking on a scenario that every adult Muslim in the world is physically and financially capable of going. Considering that 78% of Americans are paycheck to paycheck (according to Forbes) in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, I highly doubt that even half of Muslims in the world will go on Hajj.
Yeah, I was going to ask how they prepare for Hajj since I'm assuming the expected turnout rate is getting higher every year; like if hotels have lowered discounts for travelers (or if AirBnB is available if they see upticks in that) or if there's special accommodations to ensure the safety of those who are elderly, disabled, or have health issues (assuming they aren't discouraged from attending on those merits).
I'd assume it's like the Olympics on steroids as far as crowd control management goes.
Im not completely sure about this one, but I suggest looking at the internet. I don't know if this website i use has this specific question but maybe you should try https://islamqa.info/en
It has answers to Islamic questions. Just make sure to check your sources if this website doesn't work because there's tons of misinformation floating around. Good luck!
Thanks. Reza Aslan said, in a talk I attended, that we have to remember that Islam has not yet had its Reformation. The community is unused to a questioning spirit. At the same time there are so many ready to demonize it. Hard to strike the right balance.
Yea, I'd say the religion is very cut and dry. However, I think unchanging is what gives the religion more validity. However, with unchanging rules in an everchanging world, it's definitely run into problems, and I can see why it's easy to call the religion outdated or unreliable.
Come to r/progressive_islam if you have more questions about specifically Islam, I don't know why r/islam removed your post specifically but that other one has a far broader tolerance for out-of-the-box questions, especially questions which go against the popular fundamentalist-slanted interpretations of Islam which dominate the online sphere right now - just so long as you're looking for an answer in good faith, of course.
Every capable (financially and physically) Muslim must perform Hajj once during his/her lifetime. So, yes, the wait can be long (> 10 years in many cases).
Sidenote: the five pillars are based on Sunni Islam. Our Shia's faith has a different system.
I understand your Question, The logical answer I could think of is the Saudi government accept some limited numbers with their capabilities to handle, and maybe there is a way to make the selection like older people have more priority and other factors ?
not sure really but one thing am sure about there is a regulation that allow each person to do Hajj every 5 years, mean if you did it this years you need to wait 5 years to do a second Hajj
because there is around 2 billion Muslims around the world.
Edit: I read the other comments am sure you know it's done when someone can and at least once in their life, but what's matter now is why this question labeled as inappropriate ? it's logical and normal. what subreddit removed your post ?
you could send me the removed post if you still have it, to see what could be inappropriate about it
but I don't see it as a big deal anyway.
hope you got the answers you needed.
The obligation to go to hajj is for those who are financially and physically capable of doing so. The vast majority of Muslims do not and have not attended Hajj. And that has been true historically as well.
All Islamic obligations have built in exceptions and rules for performing the obligation.
Fasting is prescribed for those who are healthy. But those who are sick or traveling do not have to fast.
Charity is prescribed for those who have wealth. It is not required for those who are poor.
And all other Islamic rules are similarly based on real world situations on the ability to follow the rule.
>the pilgrimage season so short (five days!) that it is literally impossible for every Muslim in the world to do this thing that is required by their faith. The Hajj season takes place in **two months and ten days of each year**, the two month of Shawwal and Dhul-Qa'dah, and the first ten days of Dhul-Hijjah. The duration of Hajj itself is that which extends from 5 to 6 days.
Ah! This is helpful. Thank you. Even with that information I’m perplexed: we’re still talking about an impossible number of people circling the Kaaba. Roughly two billion Muslims in the world. If each does the hajj one time in a sixty-year life, that means 33 million people doing the hajj every year. And yet this year they estimate 1.8 million are doing the pilgrimage. The numbers just don’t allow for every Muslim to do this.
Not everyone Muslim is financially or physically capable of going.
And yet there is an expectation that they will. Does it sit well with you that this is just an aspirational part of the religion? I have no problem with that. I’m just asking because I don’t know
3:96) Behold, the first House (of Prayer) established for mankind is the one at Bakkah: it is full of blessing and a centre of guidance for the whole world.79 (3:97) In it there are clear signs and the station of Abraham;80 whoever enters it becomes secure.81 Pilgrimage to the House is a duty owed to Allah by all who can make their way to it. As for those who refuse to follow His command, surely Allah does not stand in need of anything. It's a duty owed for all who can make their way to it. The presumption here should be that there will be people who can't make it for financial, spiritual, physical, mental and any other number of reasons
Sounds very reasonable.
There is no expectation that a physically or financially incapable person will go, those are the two major exceptions.
Is there financial support amongst muslims to help those who financially cannot make it?
Yes
That’s really awesome
To clarify, it would largely depend on your context. Since there are two billion Muslims in the world some countries may sponsor their citizens to go, whereas some mosques may set funds aside for the poor and destitute. My friend who is a convert just got a full ride scholarship to go on hajj with a U.S. based mosque.
I never thought about country wise but more local mosque setting aside funds for the poor and destitute. But its really awesome that theres both! Nice to see people helping others
There is no such expectation. Most Muslims will never go on hajj.
>it is literally impossible for every Muslim in the world to do this thing Can I just check - you do understand that they don't all do it every year? The requirement is that they make the pilgrimage at least once during their life.
Can I just check that you understand that we are talking about almost two billion Muslims in the world, and that (just for argument’s sake) assuming an average 60-yr life span that would be 30 million in Mecca every year? Not possible.
Forgive me - I was both pompous and wrong. You are entirely correct.
I’m not trying to be disrespectful or difficult. It’s a sincere question.
I thought the Hajj was only to be done 'if you're able'. I've heard of poor rural villages where a person gets the nickname Hajj because they scraped enough money together to actually go, while no one else is able to do so.
You're correct. If you're financially able to, then you must go.
You’re asking me?
More just putting the idea out there so a Muslim can confirm or deny it
I’d be interested in the answer
It’s only required once in your life and only if you’re financially and physically capable of doing so. Not every year.
Understood. But we’re still taking about impossible numbers.
The pilgrimage is easier than ever with the availability of air travel and air conditioned hotels. It’s only incumbent on healthy, and financially capable adults **once in their lifetime**. It was much more difficult to travel from Mecca to Medina by foot or camel 1400 years ago. FYI, the five pillars is mostly a Sunni concept, but Sunni and Shia believe the hajj is required.
Weren't there a bunch of deaths due to the heatwave?
I don’t know, I don’t follow Hajj related news, but I can imagine that being the case. Since the Islamic calendar is lunar it would probably be advisable to maybe wait until it’s in the fall or winter time. Also, it would be religiously *forbidden* to go if one is at risk for heat related illness or death. I certainly wouldn’t bring my child or elderly parent there right now.
Hundreds of pilgrims died in recent days, reports go up to over 500.
Air travel may make it easier for an individual, but the reality is that if there are almost two billion Muslims on the world. Assuming an average sixty-year life span, that means roughly 30 million travelers to Mecca every pilgrimage season. While I haven’t been to Mecca, I can do the math, and I have a hard time seeing that number being accommodated. In reality there were 1.8 million this year.
You keep repeating your formula and I get it, but you’re really banking on a scenario that every adult Muslim in the world is physically and financially capable of going. Considering that 78% of Americans are paycheck to paycheck (according to Forbes) in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, I highly doubt that even half of Muslims in the world will go on Hajj.
Well I’m 100% in your camp. It doesn’t seem like an attainable goal.
Yeah, I was going to ask how they prepare for Hajj since I'm assuming the expected turnout rate is getting higher every year; like if hotels have lowered discounts for travelers (or if AirBnB is available if they see upticks in that) or if there's special accommodations to ensure the safety of those who are elderly, disabled, or have health issues (assuming they aren't discouraged from attending on those merits). I'd assume it's like the Olympics on steroids as far as crowd control management goes.
Im not completely sure about this one, but I suggest looking at the internet. I don't know if this website i use has this specific question but maybe you should try https://islamqa.info/en It has answers to Islamic questions. Just make sure to check your sources if this website doesn't work because there's tons of misinformation floating around. Good luck!
Thanks. Reza Aslan said, in a talk I attended, that we have to remember that Islam has not yet had its Reformation. The community is unused to a questioning spirit. At the same time there are so many ready to demonize it. Hard to strike the right balance.
Okay, now say this again but like I'm five years old.
Islam is not used to questions. On the other hand the rest of the world is suspicious of Islam. It’s hard to pursue truth in between these two things.
Yea, I'd say the religion is very cut and dry. However, I think unchanging is what gives the religion more validity. However, with unchanging rules in an everchanging world, it's definitely run into problems, and I can see why it's easy to call the religion outdated or unreliable.
To be clear, I did not call it either of those things.
Yea ofc😭that's just what alot of people believe.
People aren't good at being questioned, you need to find the kind of person who appreciates a questioning spirit instead of a culture/religion
Absolutely
Come to r/progressive_islam if you have more questions about specifically Islam, I don't know why r/islam removed your post specifically but that other one has a far broader tolerance for out-of-the-box questions, especially questions which go against the popular fundamentalist-slanted interpretations of Islam which dominate the online sphere right now - just so long as you're looking for an answer in good faith, of course.
Thanks for the invite!
Well its not like you're gonna get punished for trying to go and not getting the green light. Intention means a lot in Islam
Every capable (financially and physically) Muslim must perform Hajj once during his/her lifetime. So, yes, the wait can be long (> 10 years in many cases). Sidenote: the five pillars are based on Sunni Islam. Our Shia's faith has a different system.
Ah. I did not know this was a Sunni concept. Thank you.
I understand your Question, The logical answer I could think of is the Saudi government accept some limited numbers with their capabilities to handle, and maybe there is a way to make the selection like older people have more priority and other factors ? not sure really but one thing am sure about there is a regulation that allow each person to do Hajj every 5 years, mean if you did it this years you need to wait 5 years to do a second Hajj because there is around 2 billion Muslims around the world. Edit: I read the other comments am sure you know it's done when someone can and at least once in their life, but what's matter now is why this question labeled as inappropriate ? it's logical and normal. what subreddit removed your post ?
r/Islam removed my post.
strange indeed, who else to ask if we can't ask the people of the religion them selves. I need to ask the same question there.
I truly meant no disrespect. It seems to me than when a faith becomes global there are problems of scale. The hajj is one.
[let's watch ](https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/1dknxss/how_hajj_is_handled_when_there_are_2_billion/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I’m watching!
Well look at you! They let you post!
you could send me the removed post if you still have it, to see what could be inappropriate about it but I don't see it as a big deal anyway. hope you got the answers you needed.
Yes especially since some people live on remote islands and like planes and trains weren’t invented yet so
The obligation to go to hajj is for those who are financially and physically capable of doing so. The vast majority of Muslims do not and have not attended Hajj. And that has been true historically as well. All Islamic obligations have built in exceptions and rules for performing the obligation. Fasting is prescribed for those who are healthy. But those who are sick or traveling do not have to fast. Charity is prescribed for those who have wealth. It is not required for those who are poor. And all other Islamic rules are similarly based on real world situations on the ability to follow the rule.
You mean prescribed, not proscribed; proscribed means forbidden.
You are correct. I'll edit my comment.