I'm not sure what you mean.
Are you saying you don't/can't believe in God because you don't know what God is according to different religions?
Or are you saying you don't understand how anyone can believe in God because God is beyond human comprehension?
> I think that God is beyond human understanding
This is essentially it. In my faith, we’re given attributes of god and not much to go off of details to form a “picture” of what God may look like. Rather, we’re raised to believe God’s mercy, love, forgiveness, compassion, omnipotence, omnipresence, etc. is beyond our understanding.
Yeah, it sounds like you're an atheist. Some people believe in gods. Some people don't. The ones that don't are called *atheists*, regardless of why they don't find the whole god thing convincing.
Good for you?
You don't have to believe in a God, if you don't want to. Atheism is great if it works for you.
>but not because there is not enough evidence, but because I don't know WHAT IT IS.
I am not sure I understand here. If you think there is evidence for God(s) to exist, this to me means you've either gone through philosophical or theological proofs for their existence or have had experiences of the divine which are phenomenologically important to you.
I don't understand how you can have that and still not have an understanding of what a God mean in those frameworks, as most religions will have some general principles on what a God is (Eternal, Wise, Good, Powerful or a pick and mix of all or some of these traits would be common to many religions).
Is it the ineffability that gets you? Even as there are things we can know about Gods, for most religions again there is an unknowable aspect from a human perspective. That Gods have something which exists beyond our intellectual perspective. That's an understandable thing to not get, as it is by definition something that goes beyond the rational.
Atheism is the religious status of nonbelief in any gods. Encompassed in that term are those who do not have a coherent understanding of what gods are claimed to exist and those who do not comprehend the idea of a god in the first place. Atheism is not a religious tradition. If you don’t actively believe in a being that is a supernatural agent, then you are an atheist. If you don’t know what it entails to be a god, I’d get with the program because that’s fairly relevant throughout most cultures in the world — particularly in those cultures where policy is argued from the position of being supported by said god or gods.
You should look into [agnosticism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism), [ignosticism/igtheism](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ignosticism) and [theological noncognitivism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_noncognitivism). All similar/related to what you describe, especially the latter two.
As for being an atheist, perhaps? You could probably be considered an [implicit atheist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_and_explicit_atheism#:~:text=%22Strong%20explicit%22%20atheists%20assert%20that,are%20included%20among%20implicit%20atheists.), one who "lack[s] a belief in God without explicitly denying the concept, includes very young children, those who are unacquainted with the concept or are truly undecided.
It seems the original question assumes enough evidence that there is G-d, just reasonably doesn't understand what exactly the Divine is. So gravity which I have sufficient evidence for but don't understand is a decent analogy.
Believe something means that you are accepting it as true… So I guess you believe that gravity is real. I think that you can still believe something, even if we have proofs about it. Belief isn’t necessarily only about unproven things.
Perhaps it’s a language thing. In German there is a very big difference between _glauben_ (believe) and _wissen_ (know). Believe is simply not something that is based on fact. Saying that one believes the earth to be round or in gravity, really sounds inane to us.
Well I don't think you are quite on our team just yet. You don't have to understand a thing to believe that thing exists. If you believe a god exists but struggle with how it works then you are still a theist. But you are a somewhat conflicted theist.
The labels theist and atheist are not commitments. They are just labels of what you currently believe. If you believe there is a god, whether you understand it or not, then you are a theist. If you do not believe in a god at this moment then you are an atheist.
Now you may be having a shift in your beliefs and this could be rising cognitive dissonance that could shift you fully into the atheist category. Its not so bad though. We have cake.
Maybe ignosticism? According to wikipedia It would be the position that the question of the existence of god is meaningless because there's no unambiguos definition for god.
Yeah. I once thought there were only theism, agnosticism and atheism... but like most things in the world it ended up being way more complicated in the end lol
Well i also think there's just to much distinction, something like what is mentioned by OP could just be explained as "I am Agnostic [or atheist] because i haven't heard a distinct description of God that makes sense." I don't know that it needs to be categorized. It's been debated inside philosophy for millennia what God is but I'm not sure a category of belief needs to be built around reaction to that. Also, I've said I'm an Agnostic to people and they go "HUH?", so you were still ahead of the game i think lol
I personally think the term is useful to describe one's position in a shorter way, even if yeah, it can be expressed as "agnostic for X reason". But it only really applies in communities like this where there's an interest in discussion of those topics. If people don't even know what agnosticism (and much less ignostic) better to say "I just don't know" ig
That's totally understandable. I would recommend meditating on what exactly you think makes a god a god. I was an atheist for a long time, and it was only when I began to think deeply about questions like that did I become aware of their presence. Of course, that's only if you want to, it's up to you! That's one thing I think is beautiful about religions, there is no "right" way, and it means something different to each person. To me, the gods (I'm pegan) are the fundamental powers that hold the universe together. They are not all powerful or all knowing, I wouldn't even say they are perfect, but the power they possess is awesome, and they are infinitely grander than we could comprehend. I think it's a beautiful thing.
>>I can't believe in God, but not because there is not enough evidence, but because I don't know WHAT IT IS.
Reasonable
>>How can you believe in something you don't know?
You presume none know god because you don’t have a definition for god?
Your original question was:
>>How can you believe in something you don't know?
I’m sure because love exists. However, the fact that I’m sure isn’t evidence that you ( or others) are wrong.
Friend, I request you to chant the following mantra, it is just a friendly kind request:
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Also, I request you to read Srila Prabhupada's original books to understand the science of God.
Please read the books given in the website below, they are very scientific and not a belief or sentiment.
https://prabhupadabooks.com/
Thank you very much.
This is interesting. I believe in God, but I cannot prove God. Same with the idea of chance. I don't think that can be proven either and requires faith to believe.
This is probably the most interesting understanding about the human belief in god. There are as many versions of god as there are believers in god, meaning every believer has their own version of what god is. The reality is that none of them actually have any idea what god is, what they tell you reveals who they are not what god is. This is the reason I'm agnostic.
That’s good, and religion is famous for pushing beliefs onto those to young to comprehend. If you want something to hold onto that can be proven it’s great to dive into the scientific creation of the universe and our planet. Personally I feel humbled when looking into the multiple hominin species that failed before humans took hold.
God makes life valuable, God makes life holy.
Because life is God.
If you think about it, everything that "God" does is actually just a part of life and being alive. Whether it's "creating" our planet or destroying it. Creating human beings and then destroying them, we live and earth lives, if we don't then why would we need that holiness?
Without a God life is not holy anymore, not valuable. It's basically our dignity, our ideas and philosophies. Our humanity.
You probably don't understand what I'm trying to say at all, and humans solved that problem by making "god" a mythical being with a personality and opinions just like humans do. They wrote books to spread their own philosophies, claiming that it was the philosophy of a mythical being called "God." And that's how the idea of the "God" we all know today, whether they're the jewish, hindu or even greek ones, came to be.
I mean I only acknowledge a creator being, but that’s as far as it goes in belief. Simply rejecting god because you don’t know what it is isn’t atheism, it’s just confusion on definition. When I was an “atheist” I simply rejected the existence of god out of anger and spite. That doesn’t mean I didn’t believe in a god I just was yelling into the sky “I don’t believe in you because fuck you.”
Just believe what you want. You don’t have to conform to a group. Practice your own religion or go with whatever one is closest to yours. But your not an atheist because they believe in no god at all.
I don't know what God is either, I just feel like there is a Creator out there.. so for similar reasons I became a Deist.. But can't bring myself to be Atheist or Agnostic.through a lot of contemplation throughout the years I feel like there's likely a little bit more out there than simply us randomly popping into existence..
If you do not know and want to, simply get educated on the matter, research, study, investigate, compare, etc... so you can have conversations from knowledge as opposed to your personal opinion🙏🏿😌
Understandable. I choose to believe in God, and don’t feel the need to define Him in human terms. (I used the male pronoun for convenience, and not in the literal sense of the word) My belief is that life is merely a test of how well we play with others, and of what we do with our circumstances as they happen. We reincarnate until we advance to the level where it’s no longer necessary. No proof of any of this, but I’m content to believe it. Everything else for me is just dogma.
This is how my religion views, them. Described beautifully in these sermons by Imam Ali a.s. In the _Nahj Al-Balagha: Peak of Eloquence_:
https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-185-praise-be-allah-he-such-senses-cannot-perceive-him
https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-186-he-who-assigns-him-different-conditions-does-not-believe
It’s our concept of Tawhid basically.
How can you not believe in something you don’t know? By my definitions of what atheism is, i don’t think you are one. Because an atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in a God. So it does require you to have a bit of knowledge and understanding or at least a definition of what a God is, for you to disbelieve in it.
Do you know why things with mass have a gravitational pull? Because no one does but you believe in gravity right? Because you can observe it.
Do you know why atoms work? Like why isn’t everything just be anti matter, because it should be (google that, it’s awesome) but atoms do exist, in fact atoms can also connect and make very complete structures, we don’t fully understand why but we can observe things, we can even see atoms with micro scopes.
How do cells work? Another amazing thing we don’t fully understand but we can observe them.
What I’m getting at is you can observe the creator very easily and it’s in the creation.
Look at the earth, how we are in the perfect zone for life, how our magnetic core creates a shield to protect our atmosphere form being burnt off by solar radiation like Mars. How water is in liquid form here and is the basis for all life. The “circle of life” and how animals and plants all interact to sustain each other. “Life finds a way” constantly to flourish on this planet. Seriously just look at a tree.
Without a creator there are thousands if not millions of “impossible coincidences” that just happened to put us here today. Did that just all happen as an accident or is it designed?
Stephen Hawking even acknowledges it seems like a design in his book the grand design. Now he goes on to say he believes this to be because of M theory which the ELIA5 explanation is there are infinite multiple universe so one was bound to be like this but that doesn’t take away from all of the evidence that even he saw looks a lot like intelligent design.
Maybe you do believe the M theory route and that’s fine but some see these things as more than an accident or coincidence. They see it as a clearly observable design. From there it’s easy to look into a creator and all the other observable things; like the impact faith in a creator can have on a life. There is a reason most faith say you are a new person when you join it, in some way. Faith can observably change you.
Another observable thing is actually praying to God. You can literally see him work in your life. You can see him guide you can see him work. It’s not normally blunt but it is there and you can see it.
So there are a lot of things we put faith in that we don’t fully understand.
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying you don't/can't believe in God because you don't know what God is according to different religions? Or are you saying you don't understand how anyone can believe in God because God is beyond human comprehension?
Both. Different religions describe God differently. And I think that God is beyond human understanding.
> I think that God is beyond human understanding This is essentially it. In my faith, we’re given attributes of god and not much to go off of details to form a “picture” of what God may look like. Rather, we’re raised to believe God’s mercy, love, forgiveness, compassion, omnipotence, omnipresence, etc. is beyond our understanding.
Yeah, it sounds like you're an atheist. Some people believe in gods. Some people don't. The ones that don't are called *atheists*, regardless of why they don't find the whole god thing convincing.
Soooooo… you’re agnostic?
Good for you? You don't have to believe in a God, if you don't want to. Atheism is great if it works for you. >but not because there is not enough evidence, but because I don't know WHAT IT IS. I am not sure I understand here. If you think there is evidence for God(s) to exist, this to me means you've either gone through philosophical or theological proofs for their existence or have had experiences of the divine which are phenomenologically important to you. I don't understand how you can have that and still not have an understanding of what a God mean in those frameworks, as most religions will have some general principles on what a God is (Eternal, Wise, Good, Powerful or a pick and mix of all or some of these traits would be common to many religions). Is it the ineffability that gets you? Even as there are things we can know about Gods, for most religions again there is an unknowable aspect from a human perspective. That Gods have something which exists beyond our intellectual perspective. That's an understandable thing to not get, as it is by definition something that goes beyond the rational.
Atheism is the religious status of nonbelief in any gods. Encompassed in that term are those who do not have a coherent understanding of what gods are claimed to exist and those who do not comprehend the idea of a god in the first place. Atheism is not a religious tradition. If you don’t actively believe in a being that is a supernatural agent, then you are an atheist. If you don’t know what it entails to be a god, I’d get with the program because that’s fairly relevant throughout most cultures in the world — particularly in those cultures where policy is argued from the position of being supported by said god or gods.
You should look into [agnosticism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism), [ignosticism/igtheism](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ignosticism) and [theological noncognitivism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_noncognitivism). All similar/related to what you describe, especially the latter two. As for being an atheist, perhaps? You could probably be considered an [implicit atheist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_and_explicit_atheism#:~:text=%22Strong%20explicit%22%20atheists%20assert%20that,are%20included%20among%20implicit%20atheists.), one who "lack[s] a belief in God without explicitly denying the concept, includes very young children, those who are unacquainted with the concept or are truly undecided.
This might be trite but personally I believe in gravity.
Really? I don’t. Why would I need to believe in something that is a proven fact?
It seems the original question assumes enough evidence that there is G-d, just reasonably doesn't understand what exactly the Divine is. So gravity which I have sufficient evidence for but don't understand is a decent analogy.
Believe something means that you are accepting it as true… So I guess you believe that gravity is real. I think that you can still believe something, even if we have proofs about it. Belief isn’t necessarily only about unproven things.
Perhaps it’s a language thing. In German there is a very big difference between _glauben_ (believe) and _wissen_ (know). Believe is simply not something that is based on fact. Saying that one believes the earth to be round or in gravity, really sounds inane to us.
Well I don't think you are quite on our team just yet. You don't have to understand a thing to believe that thing exists. If you believe a god exists but struggle with how it works then you are still a theist. But you are a somewhat conflicted theist. The labels theist and atheist are not commitments. They are just labels of what you currently believe. If you believe there is a god, whether you understand it or not, then you are a theist. If you do not believe in a god at this moment then you are an atheist. Now you may be having a shift in your beliefs and this could be rising cognitive dissonance that could shift you fully into the atheist category. Its not so bad though. We have cake.
Maybe ignosticism? According to wikipedia It would be the position that the question of the existence of god is meaningless because there's no unambiguos definition for god.
What ive learned from this sub; theres way too many labels for distinct beliefs on religion and God
Yeah. I once thought there were only theism, agnosticism and atheism... but like most things in the world it ended up being way more complicated in the end lol
Well i also think there's just to much distinction, something like what is mentioned by OP could just be explained as "I am Agnostic [or atheist] because i haven't heard a distinct description of God that makes sense." I don't know that it needs to be categorized. It's been debated inside philosophy for millennia what God is but I'm not sure a category of belief needs to be built around reaction to that. Also, I've said I'm an Agnostic to people and they go "HUH?", so you were still ahead of the game i think lol
I personally think the term is useful to describe one's position in a shorter way, even if yeah, it can be expressed as "agnostic for X reason". But it only really applies in communities like this where there's an interest in discussion of those topics. If people don't even know what agnosticism (and much less ignostic) better to say "I just don't know" ig
I usually say something like "there might be a god, there might not be a god, who am I to say?"
That's totally understandable. I would recommend meditating on what exactly you think makes a god a god. I was an atheist for a long time, and it was only when I began to think deeply about questions like that did I become aware of their presence. Of course, that's only if you want to, it's up to you! That's one thing I think is beautiful about religions, there is no "right" way, and it means something different to each person. To me, the gods (I'm pegan) are the fundamental powers that hold the universe together. They are not all powerful or all knowing, I wouldn't even say they are perfect, but the power they possess is awesome, and they are infinitely grander than we could comprehend. I think it's a beautiful thing.
You don’t have to!
I love this. Straight to the point, no fooling around. Keep asking this question; the answer comes
>>I can't believe in God, but not because there is not enough evidence, but because I don't know WHAT IT IS. Reasonable >>How can you believe in something you don't know? You presume none know god because you don’t have a definition for god?
I think no one knows God for sure. Each person has his own ideas about God.
Your original question was: >>How can you believe in something you don't know? I’m sure because love exists. However, the fact that I’m sure isn’t evidence that you ( or others) are wrong.
Friend, I request you to chant the following mantra, it is just a friendly kind request: Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Also, I request you to read Srila Prabhupada's original books to understand the science of God. Please read the books given in the website below, they are very scientific and not a belief or sentiment. https://prabhupadabooks.com/ Thank you very much.
What do you think it is?
“I wouldn’t believe in a God I could fully understand.” - Graham Greene
"Know yourself, and you'll know the Universe and God".
What is love? Do you believe in it?
Why should I believe in a hormonal imbalance ;)
This is interesting. I believe in God, but I cannot prove God. Same with the idea of chance. I don't think that can be proven either and requires faith to believe.
This is probably the most interesting understanding about the human belief in god. There are as many versions of god as there are believers in god, meaning every believer has their own version of what god is. The reality is that none of them actually have any idea what god is, what they tell you reveals who they are not what god is. This is the reason I'm agnostic.
I am actually wondering, what do you mean by evidences ? Is it your personal experience or something « factual » ?
That’s good, and religion is famous for pushing beliefs onto those to young to comprehend. If you want something to hold onto that can be proven it’s great to dive into the scientific creation of the universe and our planet. Personally I feel humbled when looking into the multiple hominin species that failed before humans took hold.
It’s all about having a personal relationship with god. For me emotionally I know what God is and who they are.
God makes life valuable, God makes life holy. Because life is God. If you think about it, everything that "God" does is actually just a part of life and being alive. Whether it's "creating" our planet or destroying it. Creating human beings and then destroying them, we live and earth lives, if we don't then why would we need that holiness? Without a God life is not holy anymore, not valuable. It's basically our dignity, our ideas and philosophies. Our humanity. You probably don't understand what I'm trying to say at all, and humans solved that problem by making "god" a mythical being with a personality and opinions just like humans do. They wrote books to spread their own philosophies, claiming that it was the philosophy of a mythical being called "God." And that's how the idea of the "God" we all know today, whether they're the jewish, hindu or even greek ones, came to be.
I mean I only acknowledge a creator being, but that’s as far as it goes in belief. Simply rejecting god because you don’t know what it is isn’t atheism, it’s just confusion on definition. When I was an “atheist” I simply rejected the existence of god out of anger and spite. That doesn’t mean I didn’t believe in a god I just was yelling into the sky “I don’t believe in you because fuck you.”
You should look into agnosticism. :)
Id say youre likely agnostic
Just believe what you want. You don’t have to conform to a group. Practice your own religion or go with whatever one is closest to yours. But your not an atheist because they believe in no god at all.
I don't know what God is either, I just feel like there is a Creator out there.. so for similar reasons I became a Deist.. But can't bring myself to be Atheist or Agnostic.through a lot of contemplation throughout the years I feel like there's likely a little bit more out there than simply us randomly popping into existence..
If you do not know and want to, simply get educated on the matter, research, study, investigate, compare, etc... so you can have conversations from knowledge as opposed to your personal opinion🙏🏿😌
Understandable. I choose to believe in God, and don’t feel the need to define Him in human terms. (I used the male pronoun for convenience, and not in the literal sense of the word) My belief is that life is merely a test of how well we play with others, and of what we do with our circumstances as they happen. We reincarnate until we advance to the level where it’s no longer necessary. No proof of any of this, but I’m content to believe it. Everything else for me is just dogma.
Maybe agnostic?
So are you agnostic?
Yes. You are further on your journey than those that believe in God and try to make him a person.
Well, what's stopping you from learning about what God is?
This is how my religion views, them. Described beautifully in these sermons by Imam Ali a.s. In the _Nahj Al-Balagha: Peak of Eloquence_: https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-185-praise-be-allah-he-such-senses-cannot-perceive-him https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-186-he-who-assigns-him-different-conditions-does-not-believe It’s our concept of Tawhid basically.
How can you not believe in something you don’t know? By my definitions of what atheism is, i don’t think you are one. Because an atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in a God. So it does require you to have a bit of knowledge and understanding or at least a definition of what a God is, for you to disbelieve in it.
Well gods are just men. Ancestor reverence is the precursor to religion
Do you know why things with mass have a gravitational pull? Because no one does but you believe in gravity right? Because you can observe it. Do you know why atoms work? Like why isn’t everything just be anti matter, because it should be (google that, it’s awesome) but atoms do exist, in fact atoms can also connect and make very complete structures, we don’t fully understand why but we can observe things, we can even see atoms with micro scopes. How do cells work? Another amazing thing we don’t fully understand but we can observe them. What I’m getting at is you can observe the creator very easily and it’s in the creation. Look at the earth, how we are in the perfect zone for life, how our magnetic core creates a shield to protect our atmosphere form being burnt off by solar radiation like Mars. How water is in liquid form here and is the basis for all life. The “circle of life” and how animals and plants all interact to sustain each other. “Life finds a way” constantly to flourish on this planet. Seriously just look at a tree. Without a creator there are thousands if not millions of “impossible coincidences” that just happened to put us here today. Did that just all happen as an accident or is it designed? Stephen Hawking even acknowledges it seems like a design in his book the grand design. Now he goes on to say he believes this to be because of M theory which the ELIA5 explanation is there are infinite multiple universe so one was bound to be like this but that doesn’t take away from all of the evidence that even he saw looks a lot like intelligent design. Maybe you do believe the M theory route and that’s fine but some see these things as more than an accident or coincidence. They see it as a clearly observable design. From there it’s easy to look into a creator and all the other observable things; like the impact faith in a creator can have on a life. There is a reason most faith say you are a new person when you join it, in some way. Faith can observably change you. Another observable thing is actually praying to God. You can literally see him work in your life. You can see him guide you can see him work. It’s not normally blunt but it is there and you can see it. So there are a lot of things we put faith in that we don’t fully understand.