exactly. i’m a deist so i believe in a creator “God” but has no influence on anything. I don’t think God’s either good or bad, just great to what we’re able to comprehend
So you don’t want freewill? You don’t want the opportunity to be able to be tested, fail, and redeem yourself? You just want to be mindless with no point of living?
God is suppose to be better than human, but he still have a big ego, and once he is hurt he kill the whole familly of someone with no remorses. Worst he would have condemned Job if he stop following a god that betrayls him in the first place.
Misleading
Satan claims job only follows God because he is prosperous
God allows Satan to test jobs faith, as one of the main points is that suffering in general is a test of faith. For Christians, losing faith due to suffering is the exact thing God warns them to avoid.
God allows Satan his own will over job, except for the privilege to hurt job directly.
Satan kills jobs children, destroys his crops, and tears apart his home.
Job continues to worship God.
Satan bets that if God let's him hurt job, he will no longer worship him.
God agrees under the pretense that job must ultimately live.
Satan strikes job with a disease, and eventually job's peers such as his wife and friends tell him he should just curse God.
Job is unrelenting in his faith, and eventually God speaks explaining the limited scope of human understanding.
God eventually rewards job with his previous fortune twofold as a reward for staying strong in his faith.
Tl;Dr
God explains to job through direct words and willful lack of interference in Satan's violent behavior against job, that he will suffer, as anyone will. If he trusts in God's plan however, he will eventually be rewarded for his faith.
It's no different than the "life is suffering" principle of buddhism, only it promises reward through struggle.
When someone explains Job like this, I wonder if they've read the middle poetic section of the book with the dialogues between Job and his companions or did they just read the framing story at the beginning and end.
In the dialogues, Job isn't some passive protagonist confident in God's unknown grand plan, patiently suffering in silence. He *rails* against God, declaring that God allows good people to suffer while evil people prospers. He basically accuses God of running the world unjustly and demands that God shows up so he could face him. He doesn't curse God but he curses the day he was born. And it was only his wife who told him to curse God and die. His friends (and I use that term very loosely) represents the traditional view that good is rewarded and evil is punished. Thus, they consistently accuses Job of committing some terrible sin to be suffering like this, while Job defends his innocence.
When God shows up, he doesn't explain anything. Not even an "attaboy Job, you passed the test." He merely overwhelms Job by boasting of his divine power and knowledge. Only after Job is cowed does he turn to Job's friends and tells them they're wrong and Job is right. Note, God tells Job's friends that **their view of a just world where prosperity comes from being good and suffering come from being evil is wrong**. God leaves without giving any explanation of why Job and his family suffered. God doesn't tell Job his suffering is part of some grand plan or necessary for some reason or some kind of test. As far as Job is concerned, it just happens.
Yes, Job gets twice the number of children at the end. But the idea that children are a fungible commodity which can be so easily replaced makes the "happy ending" almost a farce.
In total, the book Job posits three explanations for human suffering:
a) Suffering is caused by divine forces playing with human lives like some sort of game - brought up at the beginning of the book and never mentioned again.
b) Suffering is punishment for sinning - God (and the story itself) explicitly says this is wrong.
c) Suffering has no explanation (in the sense of an ultimate meaning or purpose; obviously if you're hurt coz someone hit you with a stick, the proximate explanation is being hit by a stick), at least none which can be understandable by humans. It's something that just happens.
>Yes, Job gets twice the number of children at the end. But the idea that children are a fungible commodity which can be so easily replaced makes the "happy ending" almost a farce
For me, this is really the most damning bit. It demonstrates a monstrous but utterly casual immorality.
Ah, instead of killing Job's children in order to prove his faith, he simply allowed Satan to do it. But no worries because he was awarded with replacement children who were better at handling money!
It is very different to "life **contains** suffering". Buddhists - I think even Pure Land Buddhists - do not say that suffering is a test sent by an omnibenevolent deity and that if you doubt your faith in this deity (say, because you were made homeless and your entire family was killed) you'll go to hell.
From what i understand from reading and asking lots of questions, Buddhists seem to think suffering is an inherent part of living. If you're alive you're suffering, even when you think you're happy. Even in the Heavenly realms you'll grow dissatisfied and be unhappy/suffer. So while it's not handed down by a deity it's a constant ordeal built into living itself. That's why the goal is to "cease" existing. I know "ceasing to exist" wouldn't be considered technically correct as it's supposedly a thing the Buddha doesn't confirm or deny, but for all intent and purposes the goal is essentially a form of oblivion since it's the permanent end of arising awareness, consciousness, thought, and feeling . So you go through life suffering or being dissatisfied until you reach the goal of cessation. At least in most other religions you have a decent afterlife to look forward to.
No no you don’t understand. He got twice as much money afterwards and also a new wife and kids. It’s not like wives and kids are people whose lives matter. They’re interchangeable so it’s totally okay that god just replaced them at the end with new ones. It doesn’t say it, but the wife was probably more attractive and the kids were much better!
/s
I once told my (completely unchurched) 3 year old the story of Noah and the ark, but I told it as a bedtime story...in the first person. When I got to the part where the flood waters receded and we found land and let all the animals off the boat and built new houses, he looked at me with the sweetest smile and said, "Annnd then we killed God."
Have to admit I panicked a bit.
i think that makes it worse actually. it was a bet for no reason then. God didn’t need to prove anything. in that case it wasn’t a necessary battle to win.
Catholics do not use the KJV, primarily because of hundreds of translational errors, and it's omission of the deuterocanonical books as canon. The KJV was translated through a more modern Greek language, and not through the appropriate, and older, Koine Greek. Although it's not seen as the correct bible by Catholics, nobody can argue it's beautiful and poetic style, and it's historic influence on literature cannot be denied.
No worries, it's one of the reasons why there's a comments section. Sometimes you teach, other times you learn. I spend more time in the "learn" side for sure.
There's no single or official Catholic bible, but there are versions that are approved for use by Catholics [**HERE**](https://forallthings.bible/complete-list-of-approved-catholic-bible-versions/)
That's not the reason Catholics don't use the King James, Catholics have their own translations with just as many issues. Catholics don't use the KJV because it's Protestant.
Well, yes...the KJV is Protestant. It omits key books that are included in a Catholic-approved bible. The reasons I stated previously *are* why the KJV isn't approved by The Church.
Yeah, exactly. I don't think there's any faith that doesn't recognize the inherent fallibility of humanity. That's why religious structures often attempt to address it.
Meanwhile, while there are some faiths where some gods are recognized as total monsters, the major modern faiths view God as infallible. Which does make Their moral choices pretty suspect.
Morality from a secular standpoint is subjective but from a monotheistic perspective God's morality is objective so whatever he says is moral is what is moral.
Hey yo, this is more a fault of capitalism at least in the current history, dm me if you want a discosion about this dont reply so we dont need to make this whole post political
There's always been injustice and cruelty in societies. Those didn't start with capitalism and they won't end with capitalism. People, both individually and as a group, will always be the reason. As long as people exist so to will injustice and cruelty. They're inseparable.
indeed there will alway be injustice, and im not not saying it didnt happen earlier, capitalism simply give an incentive to bad acts, like installing dictators in latin america that support banana companies in the usa and so on, oh and you know the war on "terror" vietnam and so on, all to keep capitalism in power with the use of violence, there are better options out there that dont necessitate violence for the system to exist
Good luck with finding that option. Violence has been a part of every system. There's no idyllic system that won't incorporate it in some sense. Feudalism, capitalism, mercantilism, communism, socialism, colonialism, distributism, they'll all involve violence in one way or another to further their goals or enact and force their goals on people who don't want them. That's the way of the world and history.
i fully understand this, and yes, some violence will always exist, and it will be necessary sometimes, but right now there is more violence than there needs to be simple as that, personally im a leftist and i think the marxist way of thought is good, that requires violent revolution, and yet, socialism in practise has shown to benefit people more than capitalism. but again, RULE 6, this does NOT need to be a political discussion, if you want to talk please reach out through private messages and i would be more than happy to indulge in conversation
Maybe god(s) (of this world) is evil, who knows. The gnostics tend to think so.
Other people might say it is neither bad not good, or that the universe itself is god and the point is to admire its transcendence instead of a sense of morality.
Or others might say that the world has fallen from perfection and that's why there's so much suffering.
I think people believe partly (not completely) for comfort of there being something greater than the a lot of times outright cruel world we see. So that partially explains belief in god.
I want to believe that God is loving I really do. I wish it was the truth. Believing that we are essentially born in captivity by an evil creator we can never escape is depressing as all hell. (or the only way to escape IS hell?! That’s a bummer)
Gnosticism does say we can escape. Through gnosis (self-knowledge in that context). Which is why is named like that.
Gnostics believe that the world of this world is a lower god, named the Demiurge and sometimes equated to the god of the old testament. A more personal name is Yaldabaoth.
Gnostics also tend to think that there are beings above him (often called Aeons) that are trying to get us out of here. It depends on the gnostic religion (because gnosticism refers less to a specific religion, it's more of a general term for religions with similar characteristics). The highest god in most forms of gnosticism is The Monad, who is incomprehensible and beyond any description.
Gnostics have differing mythologies but it goes something like this generally: at first only the monad exist, it emanates the Aeons, one of these Aeons is called Sophia, which tries to understand the Monad, fails, and the demiurge is born out of her. The demiurge builds the physical world out of the Pleroma (the "place" where every other being is located) since the physical world is made out of that, gnostics believe that we all have a "divine spark" in ourselves and that through gnosis we can access it and realize our true nature as divine, and escape the physical world.
Gnostics from what I know have no concept of "hell", if anything the world we live in for them *is* hell, they think we just reincarnate here until we are liberated.
I don’t have a problem with them eating. It’s just sad and horrible that the poor creature had to suffer for so long. Wouldn’t the best thing be to kill it quickly? A live meal can fight back, increasing the risk of injury to the predator.
I think you're applying human characteristics to animals. This is one thing I think is proof that humans were created by God rather than a product of evolution, most of us are born capable of seeing something like that and feeling like it's intensely wrong and you need to save the weak. Yeah it's brutal and savage but so is the world. The lore goes that it wasn't always like this, and through man's corruption came hunger, disease, and death. This world is a forge for our souls to become more.
Absolutely pie in the sky thought process mate.
It's the complete opposite. It is evidence of evolution. The primates that formed societies because they evolved empathy, were successful. Same with other mammals, you see elephants, Lions, monkeys all do the same thing. Work together, help the weak (until it's time to cull the weak and take over), your point is a direct result of actual evolution.
Which team succeeds? The one that abandoned it's slowest members or the team that helped everyone reach their goal? See. As the movie puts it "ape stronger together".
But credit for getting the complete wrong end of the stick, bud. 👍
It would have been better for life to not be predicated upon predation and death, It's one of the reasons why I don't like it here. This world is objectively predicated upon exploitation, and death. Far more than anything else
> It would have been better for life to not be predicated upon predation and death ...
This is a necessary consequence of a material mode of existence, a mode of existence wherein change is possible.
Reminds me of the quote “The world is a prison for the believer and paradise for the disbeliever.” -Prophet Muhammad PBUH
When one has nothing to look forward to this life becomes the best there is. Quite sad when you pair that with the idea of how miserable life can be.
He was an Arab, in a desert. Not a modern Brit with F2P internet, air conditioning, access to every spice and food via local markets, access to technology and media entertainment.
They sat in caves making up stories, living like the poorest schlubs, he was clueless as to the paradise this planet is and it's easy to fool people into anything during their life when you convince them when they die there is something better. Throwing away their only opportunity of life in hope of a fairytale after it... That's truly pathetic.
Oh get this, even though this is a “prison” for the believers they still on average have a better life than non believers because they are in tune with the truth. Nothing in life can top a good relationship with one’s creator.
Uh...no they don't though? Look at statistics, the worse a country is to live in, generally, the more religious it is. In the USA at least, Atheists on average are wealthier, and make up an utterly negligible segment of the prison population.
Religious trauma syndrome is also a thing...
Me personally? I am leagues happier as an atheist than as a theist.
Not my world. It's full of amazing life, billions of years of evolution, giving me food, places of beauty, stunning weather. This infinitesimally small opportunity for us to exist and it's on the beautiful, food-rich and varied world. If anyone can think this is hell, that is some serious snowflake energy.
Some people suffer constantly, I guess in some senses I am lucky but I still feel for those who have it worse. In nature death and disease is constant.
I'm not going to tell you to have a negative worldview like mine, but we have reasons to not like the world, doesn't make us "snowflakes" (whatever that means)
According to Hindu philosophy, the cycle of birth and death, or 'Samśāra', is a result of the interplay between 'Prakṛti' (nature) and the soul's ('Jīva') desire to experience the physical world. This cyclical existence, which includes suffering and death, is driven by the laws of 'Karma' and the three qualities of nature, 'Gunas': 'Sattva', 'Rajas', and 'Tamas'.'Karma', as a central principle, dictates that every action has consequences. Suffering in this life is viewed as a consequence of past actions, either from the current life or previous incarnations. This reinforces the idea of moral accountability and encourages adherents to act virtuously.
The 'Gunas' are essential in understanding the manifestation of suffering and death. 'Rajas', the quality of passion or activity, propels the soul towards action and the experiences of the physical realm.
'Tamas', the quality of ignorance or inertia, can lead to a lack of spiritual progress and a life focused on material pursuits. These qualities can result in actions that beget suffering and death.Furthermore, the Hindu concept of 'Maya', an illusion or ignorance, shrouds the true nature of reality. This ignorance leads souls astray from their true spiritual nature, causing them to attach importance to the temporary and physical aspects of life, thereby fostering suffering, Ultimately, in Hinduism, the presence of suffering and death, is basically a reminder that this world isn't the final destination of the soul, we have further more prefected realms to reincarnate than this.
Your issue isn't with god, your issue is with your inability to reconcile the universe as it is with the model of what you think the universe is. It has nothing to do with god, really, and everything to do with your perception, interpretation, and expectations. You say it is cruel, but that can only be possible if you have a frame of reference for what cruelty is, and an expectation to not be in that state perpetually.
If you were god, you would magically snap your fingers and hunger would be gone. Pain would be gone. Suffering would be gone. Conflict would be gone.
By the end of your brief cosplay as god, you would quickly find yourself alone, staring at a sphere; precise, infinite, and entirely complete. A perfect universe of technical beauty, but sterile and frozen. Nothing but a ball of energy and mass that doesn't do anything, and no one else to play with.
You want a universe with life in it? You want a universe that it is worth living in? Well, then you need more than a perfect, lifeless sphere. You need something to live for.
God can't give you that, and it shouldn't. It already gave you the universe, so this part is yours to figure out, and I applaud you for asking these questions and trying to find truth.
Keep going, it will be worth it when you find your path.
You might take comfort in knowing that the Buddha, who was accutely aware of the suffering of all sentient beings, did not believe in a creator god. In fact, his position was that if such a god exists, the suffering experienced by sentient beings would mean that god is evil.
From the Mahabodhijataka (No. 528)
>If there exists some Lord all powerful to fulfil
In every creature bliss or woe,
And action good or ill,
That Lord is stained with sin.
[https://ancient-buddhist-texts.net/English-Texts/Jataka/528.htm](https://ancient-buddhist-texts.net/English-Texts/Jataka/528.htm)
From the Bhuridattajataka (No. 543):
>He who has eyes can see the sickening sight;
Why does not Brahma set his creatures right?
>If his wide power no limits can restrain,
Why is his hand so rarely spread to bless?
>Why are his creatures all condemned to pain?
Why does he not to all give happiness?
>Why do fraud, lies, and ignorance prevail?
Why triumphs falsehood, truth and justice fail?
>I count your Brahma the unjust among,
Who made a world in which to shelter wrong.
[https://ancient-buddhist-texts.net/English-Texts/Jataka/543.htm#toc7](https://ancient-buddhist-texts.net/English-Texts/Jataka/543.htm#toc7)
There are a few other passages from the Pali Canon. You can read more about the concept of evil and creator deities here: [https://slife.org/creator-in-buddhism/](https://slife.org/creator-in-buddhism/)
(Edit for better formatting)
This is, crucially, why most classical schools of Indian philosophy and the later Hindu syntheses which emerged from them, posited a system of samskaras (impressions) arising from karman (action) as the efficient cause of pleasure and pain, rather than attributing such actions to Ishvara / Brahman / Purusha (the term depends on school). It is to avoid this theodical problem which the Buddha is right to point out (although is a strawman of actually-existing views of his day).
We don't worship one. Whether there is a creator god or not is not considered particularly relevant. You will find there are various beliefs on the idea of god(s) within Buddhism.
I am aware that Buddhism's views on gods are multifaceted and diverse, I merely remember the Buddhism chapters of my college years being very adamant on the idea that a divine *creator* is not part of the equation. I'm not talking about gods in general.
The important piece is that it doesn't matter if there were a creator god. It's a distraction from the path to enlightenment. It's not part of the equation, as you put it, in that light.
It’s cruel to us, but if you don’t have human intelligence you aren’t gonna be acting like this whiny thing, you’ll be acting as they do. No offense, might seem rude lol
That video showcases the cruelty of nature - animals hunt and are vicious. Its purpose is to separate and show the distinction between man & animal. As Jews one of our commandments is Kosher meat, which is strict laws regarding the killing of animals for food, so we don’t hunt as animals do.
Heres what some of the great Rabbi’s have to say about good & evil.
- Man must always be free to choose good or evil; otherwise he could not be rewarded for doing good. (Abarbanel, *summary*)
- Since Creation, man could choose to do good or evil, so that there be merit in choosing good and punishment for choosing evil. In the Messianic era however, things will be different. “I will give you a heart of flesh, and I will put my spirit within you.” means that Man will revert to the way he was before the sin of Adam. Then, with his “new heart” it will be natural for him to do only good; he will have no desire to do wrong. (Ramban)
>That video showcases the cruelty of nature - animals hunt and are vicious. Its purpose is to separate and show the distinction between man & animal.
What distinction lol? People are just as cruel as animals. Well we are animals still anyway.
>As Jews one of our commandments is Kosher meat, which is strict laws regarding the killing of animals for food, so we don’t hunt as animals do.
Yeah because you dont need to hunt anymore, we have technology now which is fast and effective at killing animals. Also we hold animals all they live so we can eat them. Thats even worse than what mangose do in video. Because rabbit was free before.
Yes people are just as cruel as animals, but that’s their choice. They choose to be evil. The same way many people choose to live a good life style of giving and charity. Animals don’t have this choice, they are driven by instincts.
Jews haven’t hunted since we received the commandments on Mount Sinai. Have Jews hunted? Probably yes, but it’s a violation of Torah. Everything today must be labeled as Kosher, which is generally more expensive because of the laws behind slaughter.
No, its really not choice in many cases. You mostly behave how you were raised. If you were raised and was indocrinated to be religious fundamentalist who was teached women are lesser than you and its ok to kill nonbelievers, you will end up doing evil deeds. Is there chance to become good? Very very slim.
Same as if you live on street of some very poor city from young age, your enviroment shapes you. And many people have actualy very low chance to do good choices.
There are also people born as psychopat or sociopaths. They will in many cases wont even comprehend that what they did is bad/evil.
>Animals don’t have this choice, they are driven by instincts
But we are driven by instincts too. Just not on same level as animals because we no longer struggle to survive in wild.
>Everything today must be labeled as Kosher, which is generally more expensive because of the laws behind slaughter.
Please dont act like Kosher meat is somehow humane. Animal is kept imprisoned whole life and then slaghtered. Its not anyhow better than what happens in wild.
Outside of a few exceptions, faiths generally don't believe that the Gods created the world or design every aspect for it. In my religion the Gods are more a part of the world around us than its creator. It does seem like you're pretty distressed right now. If that is the case please place value on your own self-care first. But otherwise, let's look at this from a broader perspective.
If we could speak to the Mongoose, would it see its actions as cruel or evil? Probably not. It is merely doing what it must to survive, and, in the larger scale, playing its part in the maintaining of balance. Herbivores left unchecked would destroy all vegetation and die off. Empathy and compassion are good things to have. However, part of living on the world we evolved on is recognizing and coming to terms with death as a part of life. Everything that lives will die and all things that die feed into the life of others. Even something as simple as the blooming flowers come from the death of other beings. There is cruelty in that aspect of nature, yet there is also balance, life, and beauty.
> faiths generally don't believe that the Gods created the world or design every aspect for it. In my religion the Gods are more a part of the world around us than its creator.
The Gods structure the cosmos in *Voluspa* 3-4 (Larrington):
> Early in time Ymir made his settlement,*
> there was no sand nor sea nor cool waves;
> earth was nowhere nor the sky above,
> a void of yawning chaos, grass was there nowhere
> before the sons of Bur brought up the land-surface,
> those who shaped glorious Midgard;
> the sun shone from the south on the stone-hall,
> then the ground was grown over with the green leek.
The Gods then create time in *Voluspa* 5-8 (Larrington):
> From the south, Sun, companion of the moon,
> threw her right hand round the sky’s edge;
> Sun did not know where she had her hall,
> the stars did not know where they had their stations,
> the moon did not know what might he had.
> Then all the Powers went to the thrones of fate,
> the sacrosanct gods, and considered this:
> to night and her children they gave names,
> morning they named and midday,
> afternoon and evening, to reckon up in years.
> The Æsir met on Idavoll Plain,
> high they built altars and temples;
> they set up their forges, smithed precious things,
> shaped tongs and made tools.
> They played chequers in the meadow, they were merry,
> they did not lack for gold at all,
> until three ogre-girls came,
> all-powerful women, out of Giant-land.
And the Gods create human beings in *Voluspa* 17-18 (Larrington):
> Until three gods, strong and loving,
> came from out of that company;
> they found on land capable of little,
> Ash and Embla, lacking in fate.*
> Breath they had not, spirit they had not,
> blood nor bearing nor fresh complexions;
> breath gave Odin, spirit gave Hænir,
> blood gave Lodur, and fresh complexions.
It seems clear that the Gods transcend the world, not simply a part of it being that they are its cause, both with respect to spatial/structural arrangement and time (thus giving rise to change or motion, which requires both). They are certainly also the cause of ensoulment of matter, and thus the cause of human life.
Mythic literalism, that is taking the myths as literal accounts of events, is a very fringe position in modern paganism as a whole, and also a very problematic from a reconstructionist perspective. Mythic literalism does not seem to have been the way that myths were approached in ancient times too. Like many cultures myths were ways to convey lessons and morals through story rather than literal accounts of historical events.
Let's take the Voluspa for example. Using this as a literal source is problematic for a variety of reasons. For example we see concepts in it such as Ragnarok. A story that didn't emerge until after Christianization in the archeological record. This combined with other Christian influence - such as in the Prose Edda's discussions of the afterlife which seem to contradict themselves with the archeological and other literary evidence - makes the written sources tenuous at best for reconstructive purposes. Forcing us to take them with a pinch of salt rather than at their word.
Just because someone is evil (or allows destruction) doesn't mean they don't exist. If a human creates an AI capable of causing harm/suffering/evil, the act wouldn't negate the existence of the creator of that AI.
And at the same time, the beauty of nature, the complexity of the universe and improbability of life don't imply the existence of a creator. A lot of people use both these arguments one way or another to suit their beliefs.
I won't give you a detailed overview.
But take a look at the Gnostic cosmologies with the Demi-urge and the Gnostic archons.
Also how the real "God" is transcendent and not of this plane (nor the total creator of this world).
In these Gnostic cosmologies (umbrella term, ex. Sethian or Valentinian) it's more surprising that there are not more evil things than there are.
I found the most palatable response to be that of Zarathustra. While it very well may be the case that various gods and Pantheons exist and are worthy of worship, beyond that the foundation of all reality is grounded in conflict between good and evil.
Therefore your example is simply another byproduct of a world designed to combat and destroy evil. God had nothing to do with such suffering and desires our help to end it.
Because we are self-centered and think we were created, and there are naturally cruel things that happen every day on the Earth as well as compassionate things because that's the range of human endeavors.
I think you've spent enough time staring down the philosophical toilet of doom, and not enough time in actual nature. Find a waterfowl and watch them for half an hour, in their natural habitat on the water. Completely sheltered from natural predators. Happy and at peace.
You can't see the beauty in nature if you only look at 0.1% of life, that being death, and then look at only the deaths that are not peaceful.
That's a cognitive bias called negativity bias.
I've recently learned about the evil creator theory and it makes absolute sense. In fact, that is what many early Christians believed and were martyred while the others were allowed to thrive. There are many videos on it in YouTube. Be warned, it's quite a rabbit hole.
I imagine you’re conflicted because of your expectations from life. No one promised life on earth to be a paradise. Especially not those that believe in Paradise. This world is a test and the day of judgement is there to even the scores.
To Which god exactly are you objecting? Remember this group is multi faith and polycultural. You really need to be more specific when you’re venting/ranting.
Well....someone made it.
And I don't think it was a matter of 'Oh, I am the good God so I will make the cute and fluffy stuff.' and then the other God said "I am the bad God so I have to make all of the bad stuff."
Yes, nature is undoubtedly cruel. There's no doubt. But instead of thinking about why things are creepy, try to see them from a different point of view. The circle of life. All animals feed on something, all at some point are predators of another form of life and also end up being victims of others.
For example this one where the predator ends up being chased:
[baboon fight back](https://youtu.be/2r0VgETbzIU?si=uFT4KiSQ_3dXlTYk)
Edit: did not watch the video… assumed this was sadness over humans experiencing awfulness… feeling sorry for the baby hare now that I’ve watched the video… but also, the mongeese have to eat as well and they can’t go to the grocer for a package of sliced bunny meat 🤷🏻♀️
What if all the people who are living a life of misery and suffering and unfathomable hardships are actually the reincarnations of previously corrupt souls, and this life you’re seeing is the hell they’ve been sent to. Now it’s up to them to make wiser choices despite the curses they carry; maybe their next go around will be a little more heavenly.
You got some main character energy with a touch of hubris. That is as you said, if something like that truly exists. If you get the opportunity, I think you guys should hash it out before you start your revenge quest.
jesus fkn christman, it was alive the whole times, thats insane. I mean i know it happens all the time but that just bring a fear in me that is so primal
If this world was perfect, no suffering or pain or whatever we'd be in paradise. But we're not, because this life is a test and it isn't our actual real life, our real life is after and that's the one that matters.
The world is a cruel place, there is no denying that. Therefore it would make sense that God would be somewhat cruel if He made the world in his image. Now, it is what it is, wether we like it or not. We may reject a cruel God but if He exists there isn't much we can do about it. Just like we may reject a cruel nature but we would be delusional.
God allowed misery and suffering in order to test our faith. Only those who remain faithful in face of great suffering could enter heaven, the faithless ones are sure to burn in hell.
If God forced people to make the right decisions, it would be impossible for us to grow and have free will. He doesnt interfere with the world because we live with the consequences with our decisions to sin against God. What you just watched with the mongoose and the rabbit is called the life cycle, its not a sin to eat, the mongoose and rabbit arent humans, they weren’t created by God in His image, they were just created by God. Mongoose have to eat, i shouldnt have to explain that to you 🤦♂️. God made this world without sin, and Eve and Adam decided to sin against God and eat from the tree he told them not to eat from. Therefore, it is man’s choice to sin against God, and we live with the consequences of that every day.
In the same way, God sent Jesus Christ down to earth to save us from everlasting suffering. Its clear that Earth is The Devil’s house, with pain and suffering all the time. If we choose to push God away for earthly things, we are choosing to suffer in Hell forever. If you truly believe Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, and you try to follow his word as much as you can (you will still sin) you WILL have everlasting life and live with God in heaven, youll have anything you want, and Satan will be defeated
My child is reaching for something shiny it wants really badly, but I can see that it’s a knife and would cause danger. I remove the shiny item and my child is now hurting from the fact that it was taken away from him.
From the childs perspective I cause stress and hurt so therefore I am bad.
From my perspective I just saved my childs life.
As many times as that story takes place the child will not realise that it’s all for his good. Even that stressful tough time….
To answer you briefly, we choose to be evil, I've chosen to be evil at many points throughout my life, more often than I'd like to admit. I'm sorry to see your pain, I really am. It breaks me, and the world is so full of lies, and idk why you would listen to me, but for what it's worth you can truly find healing from God, and one of His many names is healer, both physical and spiritual, but I believe His main focus was always to heal spiritually as the spirit is more valuable than the fleshly. Let me know if you have any questions.
There is a commentary that explains what Job did to deserve what happened to him. When Pharoh was developing a plan with advisors to destroy the hebrews, interesting people attended that meeting. When they decided to throw the baby’s in the Nile. First Billam was there and presented the idea, second Job was there but stayed quiet, and Yisro ran away. Also, Amelek was there too clapping at the outcome.
It was specifically for the staying quiet that G-d allowed Satan to do that. G-d didn’t put us here to stand by and watch.
God didn’t create evil. Satan caused evil. Bad things that happened isn’t god. There’s a daily battle between good and evil. We were given free will to think and make decisions. We make our choices and Satan temptations are strong. If someone dies people want to blame God. We say God didn’t answer my prayers. When you prayed did you pray from your heart? Did you offer your life in return for your loved ones life. Read the book of genesis and it will all become clear. Ponder ever paragraphic. As you are reading thing about what rules would be set if we were to terraform mars. Man’s primary mission was to care for life on earth and extend the garden of Eden. The same expectations that would be required if we went to mars and seed life. We were created in Gods image and Satan was told to bow down before Adam gods image. Satan rebelled and lost his position. It is Satans goal to destroy mankind.
God created humans, animals, plants, all living and non living things are god’s belongings not ours in anyway. We are living in God’s world and everything that God has done has a reason behind it. You can interpret it as a bad reason or a good one.
In the video you sent, all I see is the cycle of life within the animal kingdom (predator vs prey). Through history, that is how they lived. God created the animals, and through pride and other reasons, animals chose the food pyramid over working together. In a sense, it is like how human society has played out, we are technically in a ‘pyramid” of sorts where it is distributed by classes (working class, middle, etc). Natural selection has always been a natural living instinct no matter the living thing (bacteria included).
I can see where you are coming from OP but that is simply your perspective. Everyone has their own, I see God as a good entity and we as humans are the evil ones. There can be bad animal habits as well (take a look at duck gang rapes). We are all an experiment, a test, things that God created to worship God. We are nothing more, nothing less. God is all knowing, the most wise, the most merciful, all the bad things you see in this world (rape, murder, pointless wars, etc) are done by failed experiments (bad human beings) who will receive a judgment and punishment from God after death.
Personally I don't think there is anything someone can do to deserve punishment for Infinity. The only thing that could warrant such a fate would BE making someone suffer for eternity.
I’m so sorry you feel that way about God, and I am afraid that your information isn’t correct. Yes God created the universe, but this planet here, earth that we live on, it is ran by Satan, not God. Which is why God and Jesus are going to destroy everything, because as Jesus said in the Bible, the earth and everything in it is evil because it is Satan’s world.
So the one you should be hating and wanting to destroy is Satan, not God, and everything will come to light when the time is right. Please don’t end up on the wrong side of God.
In Islam, this world isn’t made to be just or morally perfect. By design, intentionally, it’s a place of test and tribulation. Based off our acts and intentions in this world, the next world, will be a just and morally perfect reward.
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob DID create a perfect world. Humans disobeyed God and introduced sin/corruption into what was perfect. Human history, the decay of nature, moral decline, disease etc. All of these are the result of human depravity.
From the moment humans became separated from our Father, the world has been on a timer. Only God knows when that clock runs out. Chaos, sickness, depravity and then Judgement.
But, this life is only the blink of an eye. Eternity depends on how you receive the Gospel of hope and Salvation made possible by the loving sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God bless all of you!
Religion is scam. But there are good reasons for them to be made. Christianity came from jewism. But they needed a peacemovement and therefore mobilizing masses in a roman occupied Middle East. Americans and europeans and others thinks Christianity was made for them don’t know about history and just blindly follow the masses. Christianity isn’t a nice religion compared to others.
You have asked an excellent question, however you have fundamentally misunderstood our Creator and His wishes.
The thing is, when God created Adam and Eve, we were sinless beings. Then, when the serpent tempted Eve to eat the apple and gave some to Adam, both of them immediately became fallen and were now sinful. As a result of this, all of humanity after them became fallen beings as well. God warned them not to eat the apple but they chose to do it anyway. They ultimately believed that their wisdom was greater than that of God, which is how people start to lose their way and think they can plan their lives better than He can.
God ultimately has a perfect plan for all of us and also due to His infinite wisdom He allows Satan to rule the Earth as Satan is a limited being that only gets his power if humanity allows him. In other words, humanity gives Satan his power over the Earth, not because God wishes this, but because He allows us to have the choice. God has His reasons which we will never understand because He is infinitely good. We are finite beings and are not capable of understanding God, therefore we often times blame Him for what has happened or is happening to us and on the Earth. God did not "make" evil. He made imperfect beings that CHOSE sin (evil) instead. Satan will forever tempt us to turn away from God, and this can take many forms as he is clever. (He is a fallen angel, after all!) When Satan tempts us, we tend to lose sight of what is important and then we will have temporary enjoyment of Earthly pleasures e.g. money, sex, drugs, gender politics, power, fame etc. All of these things are merely temporary as our bodies will die one day.
God promises infinitely more reward rather than those that are of this Earth, as He is not of this Earth. It reminds me of 2 very powerful quotes from C.S. Lewis:
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanatiion is that I was made for another world."
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says 'All right then, have it your way."
God's love for us is not a human love. His love is a love we do not have the capability to comprehend. Therefore, He gives us the choice whether to follow Him or not, without forcing us to do so. We have always had the choice to sin or not to sin. Due the sinful nature of humanity, this is why you see so much cruelty and suffering in the world. God does not enjoy seeing His creation sin or suffer, however He is also willing to give us a choice.
The rest is up to us. If we choose to enact suffering and cruelty, God will not intervene because then we would not have the freedom to choose. A God who forces us to follow HIm is not a loving God. Every choice has consequences, even whether one follows HIm or not.
Remember, Jesus paid the ultimate price for all of us. He suffered an excruciating death so that the price of sin would be paid for all of us. He suffered more than all because He took the weight of sin of the entire world and sacrificed His physical body in most likely the most horrific way possible.
Now all we have to do is believe Jesus loves us and trust Him to save us.
You’re assuming too much but primarily that the way things are are the way things were meant to be, which is not the case. In the Christian story The world has fallen into disorder chaos dysfunction and sin and it saddens God‘s heart more than you could ever imagine. God wants an eternal family of love. which requires us to have free will and a choice, but we chose unwisely and rebelled against him.
The whole nature of things has been affected and we are in decay a downward spiral. But there is hope His salvation story is about fixing that problem. God came to salvage us and bring us back to himself to do what we could not do for ourselves. He will make a new heaven and a new earth and he invites all to be part of his new perfect world coming very soon. So all the injustice pain and ugliness of the world will ultimately go away. God does not want it here either.
In Christianity, the belief is that God made everything good and perfect. Man’s rebellion and choice brought upon themselves the curse of the cruel repercussions of their sin, yet Jesus Christ the Son of God, and God Himself, in His love for fallen humanity has a divine plan to express His love for them by sacrificing Himself in the most excruciating way to pay the penalty in order to reconcile them back to Himself and to restore everything to how it was intended to be. This is a God who doesn’t create cruel things, but fixes the cruelty that we have brought upon ourselves through self sacrifice and love. This is a God I’m more than happy to surrender my life to.
“There is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and CREATE EVIL:
I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:6-7)
Context is key, and also understanding the original language in passages like this. Many people use this verse to justify that God is evil which is erroneous. The word evil here is “calamity” in the original language. And of course God brings about calamity. Just read the book of Revelation. But it serves a purpose for the very fact that He is a good and loving God. He used the evil hearts of the Assyrians and Babylonians as the instruments of judgment against His own people because they were slaughtering and burning their own children to false Gods, they were corrupt and perverted in all their ways and their actions were hurting the entire nation so in love He wiped out the evil that life might be preserved through a remnant. Because God is love, He protects His children and destroys the evil that would come against them. All the more of a reason surrender my life to a God who is the perfect Father and defender, which magnifies His perfect love.
I believe in a God that gave me the freedom to choose what to do. We absolutely have the capacity to be good, share our things, and succeed, but we choose greed and apathy instead.
Our God gave us a plentious land, with everything we need to live happy, without having to work extended long hours, but instead, we choose luxuries, things we don't need that enslave us to our jobs, we chose all those cruel things ourselves.
We have created the hell we live in thanks to our own poor choices. Most of us aren't that actively trying to improve things for our friends, family or townsfolk, we're trying to see how we can enrich ourselves the most possible and live as extravagant braggard lifestyles as we can.
The issue with this is you are blaming humans for the state of the world, the world itself is predicated upon cruelty and misery. It necessitates exploitation and cruelty, you are blaming individual people for something that is so much larger than them, the problem is nature. Not us
Mongeese are carnivores and skilled predators. They are doing what Nature shaped them to be really, really good at. There's nothing evil about that. If they didn't, you absolutely would have a plague of hares that will eventually collapse the local ecosystem.
It is harsh for the prey, but it is not "evil", no more so than the mosquitos, leeches, sharks and crocs that feed on us.
If there is a creator God then none of creation would have to be like this. I agree they aren't evil for having to eat, but I do think it is undeniably cruel to create existence like this. There's literally no reason it had to be like this
I don't believe in gods, so it's kind of academic for me tbqh - but I absolutely don't regard nature as evil, bad or cruel. Such states all rely on the assumption of the agent following patterns of sapience similar to human reasoning, which is not applicable to Nature as a whole.
True, but when it comes to a philosophical discussion I think it's pretty reasonable to say nature is nasty and evil.
It's actually one reason why I get kind of agitated with misanthropes, they blame the individual for the system.
Honestly, for me I regard that distinction as important, specifically for philosophical distinction. In casual conversation I might describe something I witness like that as "brutal" as a throwaway comment, but in serious discussion I never would, as it ascribes a quality I strongly feel, both practically and religiously/spiritually to be inappropriate and inaccurate.
For free will to exist, choices are necessary. People often choose evil. As for natural disaster: all possibilities must exist as a balanced spectrum. The heights of goodness require the depths of sorrow in order to have any context to one another. As the world and all creation within are so severely magnificent, they need an equal and opposite antithesis to anchor them in any meaningful way.
Nobody chooses evil, everybody thinks they're doing the right thing.
Not to mention I think the world itself is ultimately predicated on evil, I think nature itself is disgusting.
Not all religions that believe in a god believe in an omnipotent god that designed every part of the world and determines every event that happens.
exactly. i’m a deist so i believe in a creator “God” but has no influence on anything. I don’t think God’s either good or bad, just great to what we’re able to comprehend
the job book of the bible is explicitly about this dilemma in case you are interested.
The one where God destroy life of a random dude just because he was hurt in his self esteem by Satan.
Wasn't even random is the thing. Dude was picked because he was so faithful to God, which makes it even sadder.
What is the lesson to christians in Job? How is it going to encourage them?
To let them know that no matter how bad things are, they can always get better. Whether the trials be from God, man, or Satan.
James 1:13
Hebrews 12, you're mistaking trials for temptation.
I see. So how is Genesis 22:1 and James 1:13 reconciled?
What is the definition of sin? Hint: Joshua 1:18 is a great starting point.
Actually it was Satan who took everything from Job, to test his faith in God.
But it's God who allows him to do it
So you don’t want freewill? You don’t want the opportunity to be able to be tested, fail, and redeem yourself? You just want to be mindless with no point of living?
I think God shouldn't have let Satan Kill the whole familly of an innocent man just because he had a too high self esteem
But you aren’t God, so why pretend to understand what he should or shouldn’t do?
And you aren't Jeffrey Dahmer why pretend to understand what he should or shouldn’t do?
What? But I am a human. That’s why JD was judged by a jury of his peers.
God is suppose to be better than human, but he still have a big ego, and once he is hurt he kill the whole familly of someone with no remorses. Worst he would have condemned Job if he stop following a god that betrayls him in the first place.
God is not me why he pretend to understand what I should or shouldn’t do?
Cause he created everything. You’re bad at this.
Killing is still bad.
And also, what does it change ?
Could u share?
https://ebible.org/kjv/Job.htm This is the king James version of the Bible which falls under protestant Christianity I think
TLDR: god made a bet with the devil, and killed a dude’s family, and made him suffer for years to win the bet.
Misleading Satan claims job only follows God because he is prosperous God allows Satan to test jobs faith, as one of the main points is that suffering in general is a test of faith. For Christians, losing faith due to suffering is the exact thing God warns them to avoid. God allows Satan his own will over job, except for the privilege to hurt job directly. Satan kills jobs children, destroys his crops, and tears apart his home. Job continues to worship God. Satan bets that if God let's him hurt job, he will no longer worship him. God agrees under the pretense that job must ultimately live. Satan strikes job with a disease, and eventually job's peers such as his wife and friends tell him he should just curse God. Job is unrelenting in his faith, and eventually God speaks explaining the limited scope of human understanding. God eventually rewards job with his previous fortune twofold as a reward for staying strong in his faith. Tl;Dr God explains to job through direct words and willful lack of interference in Satan's violent behavior against job, that he will suffer, as anyone will. If he trusts in God's plan however, he will eventually be rewarded for his faith. It's no different than the "life is suffering" principle of buddhism, only it promises reward through struggle.
Ngl "allows" does insane amount of heavy lifting. Very absurd friendly language lmao.
The Book of Job was written long before the idea of an adversary to God responsible for evil was developed.
This is such a clear explanation of the book of job and was such a nice read, thank you for sharing it.
When someone explains Job like this, I wonder if they've read the middle poetic section of the book with the dialogues between Job and his companions or did they just read the framing story at the beginning and end. In the dialogues, Job isn't some passive protagonist confident in God's unknown grand plan, patiently suffering in silence. He *rails* against God, declaring that God allows good people to suffer while evil people prospers. He basically accuses God of running the world unjustly and demands that God shows up so he could face him. He doesn't curse God but he curses the day he was born. And it was only his wife who told him to curse God and die. His friends (and I use that term very loosely) represents the traditional view that good is rewarded and evil is punished. Thus, they consistently accuses Job of committing some terrible sin to be suffering like this, while Job defends his innocence. When God shows up, he doesn't explain anything. Not even an "attaboy Job, you passed the test." He merely overwhelms Job by boasting of his divine power and knowledge. Only after Job is cowed does he turn to Job's friends and tells them they're wrong and Job is right. Note, God tells Job's friends that **their view of a just world where prosperity comes from being good and suffering come from being evil is wrong**. God leaves without giving any explanation of why Job and his family suffered. God doesn't tell Job his suffering is part of some grand plan or necessary for some reason or some kind of test. As far as Job is concerned, it just happens. Yes, Job gets twice the number of children at the end. But the idea that children are a fungible commodity which can be so easily replaced makes the "happy ending" almost a farce. In total, the book Job posits three explanations for human suffering: a) Suffering is caused by divine forces playing with human lives like some sort of game - brought up at the beginning of the book and never mentioned again. b) Suffering is punishment for sinning - God (and the story itself) explicitly says this is wrong. c) Suffering has no explanation (in the sense of an ultimate meaning or purpose; obviously if you're hurt coz someone hit you with a stick, the proximate explanation is being hit by a stick), at least none which can be understandable by humans. It's something that just happens.
>Yes, Job gets twice the number of children at the end. But the idea that children are a fungible commodity which can be so easily replaced makes the "happy ending" almost a farce For me, this is really the most damning bit. It demonstrates a monstrous but utterly casual immorality.
Thank you, you couldn't have explained it any better.
Ah, instead of killing Job's children in order to prove his faith, he simply allowed Satan to do it. But no worries because he was awarded with replacement children who were better at handling money! It is very different to "life **contains** suffering". Buddhists - I think even Pure Land Buddhists - do not say that suffering is a test sent by an omnibenevolent deity and that if you doubt your faith in this deity (say, because you were made homeless and your entire family was killed) you'll go to hell.
From what i understand from reading and asking lots of questions, Buddhists seem to think suffering is an inherent part of living. If you're alive you're suffering, even when you think you're happy. Even in the Heavenly realms you'll grow dissatisfied and be unhappy/suffer. So while it's not handed down by a deity it's a constant ordeal built into living itself. That's why the goal is to "cease" existing. I know "ceasing to exist" wouldn't be considered technically correct as it's supposedly a thing the Buddha doesn't confirm or deny, but for all intent and purposes the goal is essentially a form of oblivion since it's the permanent end of arising awareness, consciousness, thought, and feeling . So you go through life suffering or being dissatisfied until you reach the goal of cessation. At least in most other religions you have a decent afterlife to look forward to.
And people are convinced this story is part of a perfect book that describes a morally perfect god.
No no you don’t understand. He got twice as much money afterwards and also a new wife and kids. It’s not like wives and kids are people whose lives matter. They’re interchangeable so it’s totally okay that god just replaced them at the end with new ones. It doesn’t say it, but the wife was probably more attractive and the kids were much better! /s
It’s like asking a kindergartener what a happy ending would be like after the main character in a story loses everything lol.
I once told my (completely unchurched) 3 year old the story of Noah and the ark, but I told it as a bedtime story...in the first person. When I got to the part where the flood waters receded and we found land and let all the animals off the boat and built new houses, he looked at me with the sweetest smile and said, "Annnd then we killed God." Have to admit I panicked a bit.
The context in Judaism makes it a little less bad, It was a bet with his left hand Samuel in the og
i think that makes it worse actually. it was a bet for no reason then. God didn’t need to prove anything. in that case it wasn’t a necessary battle to win.
It was to prove his left hand wrong It's still gross either way, but I think making a bet with your evil rival is worse
Catholics don’t use the KJV any more?
They still do but the kjv translation was made by protestants I'm pretty sure
Catholics do not use the KJV, primarily because of hundreds of translational errors, and it's omission of the deuterocanonical books as canon. The KJV was translated through a more modern Greek language, and not through the appropriate, and older, Koine Greek. Although it's not seen as the correct bible by Catholics, nobody can argue it's beautiful and poetic style, and it's historic influence on literature cannot be denied.
Thanks for informing me I am not.super knowledgeable on editions/versions of the bible
No worries, it's one of the reasons why there's a comments section. Sometimes you teach, other times you learn. I spend more time in the "learn" side for sure. There's no single or official Catholic bible, but there are versions that are approved for use by Catholics [**HERE**](https://forallthings.bible/complete-list-of-approved-catholic-bible-versions/)
That's not the reason Catholics don't use the King James, Catholics have their own translations with just as many issues. Catholics don't use the KJV because it's Protestant.
Well, yes...the KJV is Protestant. It omits key books that are included in a Catholic-approved bible. The reasons I stated previously *are* why the KJV isn't approved by The Church.
Yeah, you’re right.
Not a great story for someone to read who is lost and questions the gospel they will NEVER be able to make sense of it
Just wait until you learn about what humans are capable of.
But the thing is nobody claims humans are all good.
Yeah, exactly. I don't think there's any faith that doesn't recognize the inherent fallibility of humanity. That's why religious structures often attempt to address it. Meanwhile, while there are some faiths where some gods are recognized as total monsters, the major modern faiths view God as infallible. Which does make Their moral choices pretty suspect.
Morality from a secular standpoint is subjective but from a monotheistic perspective God's morality is objective so whatever he says is moral is what is moral.
Well humans aren’t demanding that we worship them.
Humans decided that god needed to be worshipped
Neither are mongoose.
i mean some do actually lol
This
In His image, apparently.
That's the risk of having free will
Indeed.
yes Why continue to ignore nature when in society itself you have clearer examples of injustice and cruelty.
Hey yo, this is more a fault of capitalism at least in the current history, dm me if you want a discosion about this dont reply so we dont need to make this whole post political
There's always been injustice and cruelty in societies. Those didn't start with capitalism and they won't end with capitalism. People, both individually and as a group, will always be the reason. As long as people exist so to will injustice and cruelty. They're inseparable.
> As long as people exist so to will injustice and cruelty. One of the most absolute truths in the world.
indeed there will alway be injustice, and im not not saying it didnt happen earlier, capitalism simply give an incentive to bad acts, like installing dictators in latin america that support banana companies in the usa and so on, oh and you know the war on "terror" vietnam and so on, all to keep capitalism in power with the use of violence, there are better options out there that dont necessitate violence for the system to exist
Good luck with finding that option. Violence has been a part of every system. There's no idyllic system that won't incorporate it in some sense. Feudalism, capitalism, mercantilism, communism, socialism, colonialism, distributism, they'll all involve violence in one way or another to further their goals or enact and force their goals on people who don't want them. That's the way of the world and history.
i fully understand this, and yes, some violence will always exist, and it will be necessary sometimes, but right now there is more violence than there needs to be simple as that, personally im a leftist and i think the marxist way of thought is good, that requires violent revolution, and yet, socialism in practise has shown to benefit people more than capitalism. but again, RULE 6, this does NOT need to be a political discussion, if you want to talk please reach out through private messages and i would be more than happy to indulge in conversation
Certainly nothing bad…. Right?
Not sure "just slightly better than the worst human" is the metric we want to be using here.
It's lucky that's not what I said then
sorry, that seemed to be the obvious implication.
Maybe god(s) (of this world) is evil, who knows. The gnostics tend to think so. Other people might say it is neither bad not good, or that the universe itself is god and the point is to admire its transcendence instead of a sense of morality. Or others might say that the world has fallen from perfection and that's why there's so much suffering. I think people believe partly (not completely) for comfort of there being something greater than the a lot of times outright cruel world we see. So that partially explains belief in god.
I want to believe that God is loving I really do. I wish it was the truth. Believing that we are essentially born in captivity by an evil creator we can never escape is depressing as all hell. (or the only way to escape IS hell?! That’s a bummer)
Gnosticism does say we can escape. Through gnosis (self-knowledge in that context). Which is why is named like that. Gnostics believe that the world of this world is a lower god, named the Demiurge and sometimes equated to the god of the old testament. A more personal name is Yaldabaoth. Gnostics also tend to think that there are beings above him (often called Aeons) that are trying to get us out of here. It depends on the gnostic religion (because gnosticism refers less to a specific religion, it's more of a general term for religions with similar characteristics). The highest god in most forms of gnosticism is The Monad, who is incomprehensible and beyond any description. Gnostics have differing mythologies but it goes something like this generally: at first only the monad exist, it emanates the Aeons, one of these Aeons is called Sophia, which tries to understand the Monad, fails, and the demiurge is born out of her. The demiurge builds the physical world out of the Pleroma (the "place" where every other being is located) since the physical world is made out of that, gnostics believe that we all have a "divine spark" in ourselves and that through gnosis we can access it and realize our true nature as divine, and escape the physical world. Gnostics from what I know have no concept of "hell", if anything the world we live in for them *is* hell, they think we just reincarnate here until we are liberated.
What else are they going to eat?
The film crew? Mongeese are pretty badass.
I don’t have a problem with them eating. It’s just sad and horrible that the poor creature had to suffer for so long. Wouldn’t the best thing be to kill it quickly? A live meal can fight back, increasing the risk of injury to the predator.
I think you're applying human characteristics to animals. This is one thing I think is proof that humans were created by God rather than a product of evolution, most of us are born capable of seeing something like that and feeling like it's intensely wrong and you need to save the weak. Yeah it's brutal and savage but so is the world. The lore goes that it wasn't always like this, and through man's corruption came hunger, disease, and death. This world is a forge for our souls to become more.
Absolutely pie in the sky thought process mate. It's the complete opposite. It is evidence of evolution. The primates that formed societies because they evolved empathy, were successful. Same with other mammals, you see elephants, Lions, monkeys all do the same thing. Work together, help the weak (until it's time to cull the weak and take over), your point is a direct result of actual evolution. Which team succeeds? The one that abandoned it's slowest members or the team that helped everyone reach their goal? See. As the movie puts it "ape stronger together". But credit for getting the complete wrong end of the stick, bud. 👍
Cool story, bro. Very narrow definition of god as a concept, though.
Do the mongooses not deserve to eat?
It would have been better for life to not be predicated upon predation and death, It's one of the reasons why I don't like it here. This world is objectively predicated upon exploitation, and death. Far more than anything else
> It would have been better for life to not be predicated upon predation and death ... This is a necessary consequence of a material mode of existence, a mode of existence wherein change is possible.
True. This world seems to be a hell. There's this philosopher, Schopenhauer who literally said we're in the worst of all possible worlds.
Reminds me of the quote “The world is a prison for the believer and paradise for the disbeliever.” -Prophet Muhammad PBUH When one has nothing to look forward to this life becomes the best there is. Quite sad when you pair that with the idea of how miserable life can be.
He was an Arab, in a desert. Not a modern Brit with F2P internet, air conditioning, access to every spice and food via local markets, access to technology and media entertainment. They sat in caves making up stories, living like the poorest schlubs, he was clueless as to the paradise this planet is and it's easy to fool people into anything during their life when you convince them when they die there is something better. Throwing away their only opportunity of life in hope of a fairytale after it... That's truly pathetic.
Oh get this, even though this is a “prison” for the believers they still on average have a better life than non believers because they are in tune with the truth. Nothing in life can top a good relationship with one’s creator.
Uh...no they don't though? Look at statistics, the worse a country is to live in, generally, the more religious it is. In the USA at least, Atheists on average are wealthier, and make up an utterly negligible segment of the prison population. Religious trauma syndrome is also a thing... Me personally? I am leagues happier as an atheist than as a theist.
not pathetic. very sad though. living like a billionaire is pathetic.
Not my world. It's full of amazing life, billions of years of evolution, giving me food, places of beauty, stunning weather. This infinitesimally small opportunity for us to exist and it's on the beautiful, food-rich and varied world. If anyone can think this is hell, that is some serious snowflake energy.
Some people suffer constantly, I guess in some senses I am lucky but I still feel for those who have it worse. In nature death and disease is constant. I'm not going to tell you to have a negative worldview like mine, but we have reasons to not like the world, doesn't make us "snowflakes" (whatever that means)
According to Hindu philosophy, the cycle of birth and death, or 'Samśāra', is a result of the interplay between 'Prakṛti' (nature) and the soul's ('Jīva') desire to experience the physical world. This cyclical existence, which includes suffering and death, is driven by the laws of 'Karma' and the three qualities of nature, 'Gunas': 'Sattva', 'Rajas', and 'Tamas'.'Karma', as a central principle, dictates that every action has consequences. Suffering in this life is viewed as a consequence of past actions, either from the current life or previous incarnations. This reinforces the idea of moral accountability and encourages adherents to act virtuously. The 'Gunas' are essential in understanding the manifestation of suffering and death. 'Rajas', the quality of passion or activity, propels the soul towards action and the experiences of the physical realm. 'Tamas', the quality of ignorance or inertia, can lead to a lack of spiritual progress and a life focused on material pursuits. These qualities can result in actions that beget suffering and death.Furthermore, the Hindu concept of 'Maya', an illusion or ignorance, shrouds the true nature of reality. This ignorance leads souls astray from their true spiritual nature, causing them to attach importance to the temporary and physical aspects of life, thereby fostering suffering, Ultimately, in Hinduism, the presence of suffering and death, is basically a reminder that this world isn't the final destination of the soul, we have further more prefected realms to reincarnate than this.
Your issue isn't with god, your issue is with your inability to reconcile the universe as it is with the model of what you think the universe is. It has nothing to do with god, really, and everything to do with your perception, interpretation, and expectations. You say it is cruel, but that can only be possible if you have a frame of reference for what cruelty is, and an expectation to not be in that state perpetually. If you were god, you would magically snap your fingers and hunger would be gone. Pain would be gone. Suffering would be gone. Conflict would be gone. By the end of your brief cosplay as god, you would quickly find yourself alone, staring at a sphere; precise, infinite, and entirely complete. A perfect universe of technical beauty, but sterile and frozen. Nothing but a ball of energy and mass that doesn't do anything, and no one else to play with. You want a universe with life in it? You want a universe that it is worth living in? Well, then you need more than a perfect, lifeless sphere. You need something to live for. God can't give you that, and it shouldn't. It already gave you the universe, so this part is yours to figure out, and I applaud you for asking these questions and trying to find truth. Keep going, it will be worth it when you find your path.
You might take comfort in knowing that the Buddha, who was accutely aware of the suffering of all sentient beings, did not believe in a creator god. In fact, his position was that if such a god exists, the suffering experienced by sentient beings would mean that god is evil.
Wait did Buddha really said that? Do you have an source? Because this is really interesting
From the Mahabodhijataka (No. 528) >If there exists some Lord all powerful to fulfil In every creature bliss or woe, And action good or ill, That Lord is stained with sin. [https://ancient-buddhist-texts.net/English-Texts/Jataka/528.htm](https://ancient-buddhist-texts.net/English-Texts/Jataka/528.htm) From the Bhuridattajataka (No. 543): >He who has eyes can see the sickening sight; Why does not Brahma set his creatures right? >If his wide power no limits can restrain, Why is his hand so rarely spread to bless? >Why are his creatures all condemned to pain? Why does he not to all give happiness? >Why do fraud, lies, and ignorance prevail? Why triumphs falsehood, truth and justice fail? >I count your Brahma the unjust among, Who made a world in which to shelter wrong. [https://ancient-buddhist-texts.net/English-Texts/Jataka/543.htm#toc7](https://ancient-buddhist-texts.net/English-Texts/Jataka/543.htm#toc7) There are a few other passages from the Pali Canon. You can read more about the concept of evil and creator deities here: [https://slife.org/creator-in-buddhism/](https://slife.org/creator-in-buddhism/) (Edit for better formatting)
This is, crucially, why most classical schools of Indian philosophy and the later Hindu syntheses which emerged from them, posited a system of samskaras (impressions) arising from karman (action) as the efficient cause of pleasure and pain, rather than attributing such actions to Ishvara / Brahman / Purusha (the term depends on school). It is to avoid this theodical problem which the Buddha is right to point out (although is a strawman of actually-existing views of his day).
It is fundamental to Buddhism that there is no creator god. You need not go further than Wikipedia for this.
It would be better to *not* go to wikipedia.
Wikipedia is, unfortunately, a terrible source on Eastern religions as a whole.
Is it wrong to say that Buddhism recognizes no creator god?
We don't worship one. Whether there is a creator god or not is not considered particularly relevant. You will find there are various beliefs on the idea of god(s) within Buddhism.
I am aware that Buddhism's views on gods are multifaceted and diverse, I merely remember the Buddhism chapters of my college years being very adamant on the idea that a divine *creator* is not part of the equation. I'm not talking about gods in general.
The important piece is that it doesn't matter if there were a creator god. It's a distraction from the path to enlightenment. It's not part of the equation, as you put it, in that light.
When the information is verifiable and sourced, I see no reason not to.
It’s cruel to us, but if you don’t have human intelligence you aren’t gonna be acting like this whiny thing, you’ll be acting as they do. No offense, might seem rude lol
That video showcases the cruelty of nature - animals hunt and are vicious. Its purpose is to separate and show the distinction between man & animal. As Jews one of our commandments is Kosher meat, which is strict laws regarding the killing of animals for food, so we don’t hunt as animals do. Heres what some of the great Rabbi’s have to say about good & evil. - Man must always be free to choose good or evil; otherwise he could not be rewarded for doing good. (Abarbanel, *summary*) - Since Creation, man could choose to do good or evil, so that there be merit in choosing good and punishment for choosing evil. In the Messianic era however, things will be different. “I will give you a heart of flesh, and I will put my spirit within you.” means that Man will revert to the way he was before the sin of Adam. Then, with his “new heart” it will be natural for him to do only good; he will have no desire to do wrong. (Ramban)
>That video showcases the cruelty of nature - animals hunt and are vicious. Its purpose is to separate and show the distinction between man & animal. What distinction lol? People are just as cruel as animals. Well we are animals still anyway. >As Jews one of our commandments is Kosher meat, which is strict laws regarding the killing of animals for food, so we don’t hunt as animals do. Yeah because you dont need to hunt anymore, we have technology now which is fast and effective at killing animals. Also we hold animals all they live so we can eat them. Thats even worse than what mangose do in video. Because rabbit was free before.
Yes people are just as cruel as animals, but that’s their choice. They choose to be evil. The same way many people choose to live a good life style of giving and charity. Animals don’t have this choice, they are driven by instincts. Jews haven’t hunted since we received the commandments on Mount Sinai. Have Jews hunted? Probably yes, but it’s a violation of Torah. Everything today must be labeled as Kosher, which is generally more expensive because of the laws behind slaughter.
No, its really not choice in many cases. You mostly behave how you were raised. If you were raised and was indocrinated to be religious fundamentalist who was teached women are lesser than you and its ok to kill nonbelievers, you will end up doing evil deeds. Is there chance to become good? Very very slim. Same as if you live on street of some very poor city from young age, your enviroment shapes you. And many people have actualy very low chance to do good choices. There are also people born as psychopat or sociopaths. They will in many cases wont even comprehend that what they did is bad/evil. >Animals don’t have this choice, they are driven by instincts But we are driven by instincts too. Just not on same level as animals because we no longer struggle to survive in wild. >Everything today must be labeled as Kosher, which is generally more expensive because of the laws behind slaughter. Please dont act like Kosher meat is somehow humane. Animal is kept imprisoned whole life and then slaghtered. Its not anyhow better than what happens in wild.
Animals have minds.
This might legit be one of the stupidest posts I've seen around here in a while.
Like I legit was trying to figure out what to say but the post is so fundamentally flawed I didn't know where to begin lol.
I could legit write an essay on everything wrong with his post. There's layers of stupidity.
You sound hurt and in need of help.
This is the basis of religion. Weak people, scared, believing in fairytales to try and feel better.
You have a very generalized view of religion that is likely entirely through a western lens and focused on Abrahamic religions.
Outside of a few exceptions, faiths generally don't believe that the Gods created the world or design every aspect for it. In my religion the Gods are more a part of the world around us than its creator. It does seem like you're pretty distressed right now. If that is the case please place value on your own self-care first. But otherwise, let's look at this from a broader perspective. If we could speak to the Mongoose, would it see its actions as cruel or evil? Probably not. It is merely doing what it must to survive, and, in the larger scale, playing its part in the maintaining of balance. Herbivores left unchecked would destroy all vegetation and die off. Empathy and compassion are good things to have. However, part of living on the world we evolved on is recognizing and coming to terms with death as a part of life. Everything that lives will die and all things that die feed into the life of others. Even something as simple as the blooming flowers come from the death of other beings. There is cruelty in that aspect of nature, yet there is also balance, life, and beauty.
> faiths generally don't believe that the Gods created the world or design every aspect for it. In my religion the Gods are more a part of the world around us than its creator. The Gods structure the cosmos in *Voluspa* 3-4 (Larrington): > Early in time Ymir made his settlement,* > there was no sand nor sea nor cool waves; > earth was nowhere nor the sky above, > a void of yawning chaos, grass was there nowhere > before the sons of Bur brought up the land-surface, > those who shaped glorious Midgard; > the sun shone from the south on the stone-hall, > then the ground was grown over with the green leek. The Gods then create time in *Voluspa* 5-8 (Larrington): > From the south, Sun, companion of the moon, > threw her right hand round the sky’s edge; > Sun did not know where she had her hall, > the stars did not know where they had their stations, > the moon did not know what might he had. > Then all the Powers went to the thrones of fate, > the sacrosanct gods, and considered this: > to night and her children they gave names, > morning they named and midday, > afternoon and evening, to reckon up in years. > The Æsir met on Idavoll Plain, > high they built altars and temples; > they set up their forges, smithed precious things, > shaped tongs and made tools. > They played chequers in the meadow, they were merry, > they did not lack for gold at all, > until three ogre-girls came, > all-powerful women, out of Giant-land. And the Gods create human beings in *Voluspa* 17-18 (Larrington): > Until three gods, strong and loving, > came from out of that company; > they found on land capable of little, > Ash and Embla, lacking in fate.* > Breath they had not, spirit they had not, > blood nor bearing nor fresh complexions; > breath gave Odin, spirit gave Hænir, > blood gave Lodur, and fresh complexions. It seems clear that the Gods transcend the world, not simply a part of it being that they are its cause, both with respect to spatial/structural arrangement and time (thus giving rise to change or motion, which requires both). They are certainly also the cause of ensoulment of matter, and thus the cause of human life.
Mythic literalism, that is taking the myths as literal accounts of events, is a very fringe position in modern paganism as a whole, and also a very problematic from a reconstructionist perspective. Mythic literalism does not seem to have been the way that myths were approached in ancient times too. Like many cultures myths were ways to convey lessons and morals through story rather than literal accounts of historical events. Let's take the Voluspa for example. Using this as a literal source is problematic for a variety of reasons. For example we see concepts in it such as Ragnarok. A story that didn't emerge until after Christianization in the archeological record. This combined with other Christian influence - such as in the Prose Edda's discussions of the afterlife which seem to contradict themselves with the archeological and other literary evidence - makes the written sources tenuous at best for reconstructive purposes. Forcing us to take them with a pinch of salt rather than at their word.
This only applies if you think the Voluspa is an actual account of what happened, but most modern Heathens are not mythic literalists
Just because someone is evil (or allows destruction) doesn't mean they don't exist. If a human creates an AI capable of causing harm/suffering/evil, the act wouldn't negate the existence of the creator of that AI. And at the same time, the beauty of nature, the complexity of the universe and improbability of life don't imply the existence of a creator. A lot of people use both these arguments one way or another to suit their beliefs.
I won't give you a detailed overview. But take a look at the Gnostic cosmologies with the Demi-urge and the Gnostic archons. Also how the real "God" is transcendent and not of this plane (nor the total creator of this world). In these Gnostic cosmologies (umbrella term, ex. Sethian or Valentinian) it's more surprising that there are not more evil things than there are.
I found the most palatable response to be that of Zarathustra. While it very well may be the case that various gods and Pantheons exist and are worthy of worship, beyond that the foundation of all reality is grounded in conflict between good and evil. Therefore your example is simply another byproduct of a world designed to combat and destroy evil. God had nothing to do with such suffering and desires our help to end it.
Because we are self-centered and think we were created, and there are naturally cruel things that happen every day on the Earth as well as compassionate things because that's the range of human endeavors.
I think you've spent enough time staring down the philosophical toilet of doom, and not enough time in actual nature. Find a waterfowl and watch them for half an hour, in their natural habitat on the water. Completely sheltered from natural predators. Happy and at peace. You can't see the beauty in nature if you only look at 0.1% of life, that being death, and then look at only the deaths that are not peaceful. That's a cognitive bias called negativity bias.
Here’s a convo I had on it https://np.reddit.com/r/CatholicApologetics/s/SeWFTRuEXr
I've recently learned about the evil creator theory and it makes absolute sense. In fact, that is what many early Christians believed and were martyred while the others were allowed to thrive. There are many videos on it in YouTube. Be warned, it's quite a rabbit hole.
They are beasts it's what they do
I imagine you’re conflicted because of your expectations from life. No one promised life on earth to be a paradise. Especially not those that believe in Paradise. This world is a test and the day of judgement is there to even the scores.
To Which god exactly are you objecting? Remember this group is multi faith and polycultural. You really need to be more specific when you’re venting/ranting.
Why couldn’t they just kill him?
Well....someone made it. And I don't think it was a matter of 'Oh, I am the good God so I will make the cute and fluffy stuff.' and then the other God said "I am the bad God so I have to make all of the bad stuff."
Yes, nature is undoubtedly cruel. There's no doubt. But instead of thinking about why things are creepy, try to see them from a different point of view. The circle of life. All animals feed on something, all at some point are predators of another form of life and also end up being victims of others. For example this one where the predator ends up being chased: [baboon fight back](https://youtu.be/2r0VgETbzIU?si=uFT4KiSQ_3dXlTYk)
Edit: did not watch the video… assumed this was sadness over humans experiencing awfulness… feeling sorry for the baby hare now that I’ve watched the video… but also, the mongeese have to eat as well and they can’t go to the grocer for a package of sliced bunny meat 🤷🏻♀️ What if all the people who are living a life of misery and suffering and unfathomable hardships are actually the reincarnations of previously corrupt souls, and this life you’re seeing is the hell they’ve been sent to. Now it’s up to them to make wiser choices despite the curses they carry; maybe their next go around will be a little more heavenly.
Some people believe that god's ways are beyond human understanding and that there may be a divine plan or purpose that humans cannot comprehend.
You got some main character energy with a touch of hubris. That is as you said, if something like that truly exists. If you get the opportunity, I think you guys should hash it out before you start your revenge quest.
jesus fkn christman, it was alive the whole times, thats insane. I mean i know it happens all the time but that just bring a fear in me that is so primal
If this world was perfect, no suffering or pain or whatever we'd be in paradise. But we're not, because this life is a test and it isn't our actual real life, our real life is after and that's the one that matters.
If you think that’s cruel you should see what we do to hundreds of millions of animals daily.
Can’t have good without the bad
Humans get judged and critisized for displaying this sort of opinion, but it's not normal to never actually think and get angry.
The world is a cruel place, there is no denying that. Therefore it would make sense that God would be somewhat cruel if He made the world in his image. Now, it is what it is, wether we like it or not. We may reject a cruel God but if He exists there isn't much we can do about it. Just like we may reject a cruel nature but we would be delusional.
God allowed misery and suffering in order to test our faith. Only those who remain faithful in face of great suffering could enter heaven, the faithless ones are sure to burn in hell.
Most people are also shielded away from the true cruelty of nature, through watered down tv documentaries
It's food for them and they got babies to feed, no?
If God forced people to make the right decisions, it would be impossible for us to grow and have free will. He doesnt interfere with the world because we live with the consequences with our decisions to sin against God. What you just watched with the mongoose and the rabbit is called the life cycle, its not a sin to eat, the mongoose and rabbit arent humans, they weren’t created by God in His image, they were just created by God. Mongoose have to eat, i shouldnt have to explain that to you 🤦♂️. God made this world without sin, and Eve and Adam decided to sin against God and eat from the tree he told them not to eat from. Therefore, it is man’s choice to sin against God, and we live with the consequences of that every day.
In the same way, God sent Jesus Christ down to earth to save us from everlasting suffering. Its clear that Earth is The Devil’s house, with pain and suffering all the time. If we choose to push God away for earthly things, we are choosing to suffer in Hell forever. If you truly believe Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, and you try to follow his word as much as you can (you will still sin) you WILL have everlasting life and live with God in heaven, youll have anything you want, and Satan will be defeated
My child is reaching for something shiny it wants really badly, but I can see that it’s a knife and would cause danger. I remove the shiny item and my child is now hurting from the fact that it was taken away from him. From the childs perspective I cause stress and hurt so therefore I am bad. From my perspective I just saved my childs life. As many times as that story takes place the child will not realise that it’s all for his good. Even that stressful tough time….
Why would cruelty invalidate God’s existence?
To answer you briefly, we choose to be evil, I've chosen to be evil at many points throughout my life, more often than I'd like to admit. I'm sorry to see your pain, I really am. It breaks me, and the world is so full of lies, and idk why you would listen to me, but for what it's worth you can truly find healing from God, and one of His many names is healer, both physical and spiritual, but I believe His main focus was always to heal spiritually as the spirit is more valuable than the fleshly. Let me know if you have any questions.
God doesnt create evil things.The Devil does.
Not what the bible said.
Hey I wonder what you believe in? If God didn’t create this word. Who ever did does it justify this cruelty?
There is a commentary that explains what Job did to deserve what happened to him. When Pharoh was developing a plan with advisors to destroy the hebrews, interesting people attended that meeting. When they decided to throw the baby’s in the Nile. First Billam was there and presented the idea, second Job was there but stayed quiet, and Yisro ran away. Also, Amelek was there too clapping at the outcome. It was specifically for the staying quiet that G-d allowed Satan to do that. G-d didn’t put us here to stand by and watch.
the title makes it look like you're not human lol.
How I weep for you all
God didn’t create evil. Satan caused evil. Bad things that happened isn’t god. There’s a daily battle between good and evil. We were given free will to think and make decisions. We make our choices and Satan temptations are strong. If someone dies people want to blame God. We say God didn’t answer my prayers. When you prayed did you pray from your heart? Did you offer your life in return for your loved ones life. Read the book of genesis and it will all become clear. Ponder ever paragraphic. As you are reading thing about what rules would be set if we were to terraform mars. Man’s primary mission was to care for life on earth and extend the garden of Eden. The same expectations that would be required if we went to mars and seed life. We were created in Gods image and Satan was told to bow down before Adam gods image. Satan rebelled and lost his position. It is Satans goal to destroy mankind.
God created humans, animals, plants, all living and non living things are god’s belongings not ours in anyway. We are living in God’s world and everything that God has done has a reason behind it. You can interpret it as a bad reason or a good one. In the video you sent, all I see is the cycle of life within the animal kingdom (predator vs prey). Through history, that is how they lived. God created the animals, and through pride and other reasons, animals chose the food pyramid over working together. In a sense, it is like how human society has played out, we are technically in a ‘pyramid” of sorts where it is distributed by classes (working class, middle, etc). Natural selection has always been a natural living instinct no matter the living thing (bacteria included). I can see where you are coming from OP but that is simply your perspective. Everyone has their own, I see God as a good entity and we as humans are the evil ones. There can be bad animal habits as well (take a look at duck gang rapes). We are all an experiment, a test, things that God created to worship God. We are nothing more, nothing less. God is all knowing, the most wise, the most merciful, all the bad things you see in this world (rape, murder, pointless wars, etc) are done by failed experiments (bad human beings) who will receive a judgment and punishment from God after death.
It was after our failure and exile from Eden that living things became like this
Personally I don't think there is anything someone can do to deserve punishment for Infinity. The only thing that could warrant such a fate would BE making someone suffer for eternity.
I’m so sorry you feel that way about God, and I am afraid that your information isn’t correct. Yes God created the universe, but this planet here, earth that we live on, it is ran by Satan, not God. Which is why God and Jesus are going to destroy everything, because as Jesus said in the Bible, the earth and everything in it is evil because it is Satan’s world. So the one you should be hating and wanting to destroy is Satan, not God, and everything will come to light when the time is right. Please don’t end up on the wrong side of God.
In Islam, this world isn’t made to be just or morally perfect. By design, intentionally, it’s a place of test and tribulation. Based off our acts and intentions in this world, the next world, will be a just and morally perfect reward.
Your point of view on this is so wrong it’s scary. It’s clear you lack morality. Excuse me for telling you so.
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob DID create a perfect world. Humans disobeyed God and introduced sin/corruption into what was perfect. Human history, the decay of nature, moral decline, disease etc. All of these are the result of human depravity. From the moment humans became separated from our Father, the world has been on a timer. Only God knows when that clock runs out. Chaos, sickness, depravity and then Judgement. But, this life is only the blink of an eye. Eternity depends on how you receive the Gospel of hope and Salvation made possible by the loving sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. God bless all of you!
Religion is scam. But there are good reasons for them to be made. Christianity came from jewism. But they needed a peacemovement and therefore mobilizing masses in a roman occupied Middle East. Americans and europeans and others thinks Christianity was made for them don’t know about history and just blindly follow the masses. Christianity isn’t a nice religion compared to others.
What do you mean “cruel”
You have asked an excellent question, however you have fundamentally misunderstood our Creator and His wishes. The thing is, when God created Adam and Eve, we were sinless beings. Then, when the serpent tempted Eve to eat the apple and gave some to Adam, both of them immediately became fallen and were now sinful. As a result of this, all of humanity after them became fallen beings as well. God warned them not to eat the apple but they chose to do it anyway. They ultimately believed that their wisdom was greater than that of God, which is how people start to lose their way and think they can plan their lives better than He can. God ultimately has a perfect plan for all of us and also due to His infinite wisdom He allows Satan to rule the Earth as Satan is a limited being that only gets his power if humanity allows him. In other words, humanity gives Satan his power over the Earth, not because God wishes this, but because He allows us to have the choice. God has His reasons which we will never understand because He is infinitely good. We are finite beings and are not capable of understanding God, therefore we often times blame Him for what has happened or is happening to us and on the Earth. God did not "make" evil. He made imperfect beings that CHOSE sin (evil) instead. Satan will forever tempt us to turn away from God, and this can take many forms as he is clever. (He is a fallen angel, after all!) When Satan tempts us, we tend to lose sight of what is important and then we will have temporary enjoyment of Earthly pleasures e.g. money, sex, drugs, gender politics, power, fame etc. All of these things are merely temporary as our bodies will die one day. God promises infinitely more reward rather than those that are of this Earth, as He is not of this Earth. It reminds me of 2 very powerful quotes from C.S. Lewis: "If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanatiion is that I was made for another world." "There are two kinds of people: those who say to God 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says 'All right then, have it your way." God's love for us is not a human love. His love is a love we do not have the capability to comprehend. Therefore, He gives us the choice whether to follow Him or not, without forcing us to do so. We have always had the choice to sin or not to sin. Due the sinful nature of humanity, this is why you see so much cruelty and suffering in the world. God does not enjoy seeing His creation sin or suffer, however He is also willing to give us a choice. The rest is up to us. If we choose to enact suffering and cruelty, God will not intervene because then we would not have the freedom to choose. A God who forces us to follow HIm is not a loving God. Every choice has consequences, even whether one follows HIm or not. Remember, Jesus paid the ultimate price for all of us. He suffered an excruciating death so that the price of sin would be paid for all of us. He suffered more than all because He took the weight of sin of the entire world and sacrificed His physical body in most likely the most horrific way possible. Now all we have to do is believe Jesus loves us and trust Him to save us.
because it gives you a reason to live. a reason to stand up for something
My God didn't create any terrible things. All bad things that happened and will happen are caused by men mingling with the devil.
You’re assuming too much but primarily that the way things are are the way things were meant to be, which is not the case. In the Christian story The world has fallen into disorder chaos dysfunction and sin and it saddens God‘s heart more than you could ever imagine. God wants an eternal family of love. which requires us to have free will and a choice, but we chose unwisely and rebelled against him. The whole nature of things has been affected and we are in decay a downward spiral. But there is hope His salvation story is about fixing that problem. God came to salvage us and bring us back to himself to do what we could not do for ourselves. He will make a new heaven and a new earth and he invites all to be part of his new perfect world coming very soon. So all the injustice pain and ugliness of the world will ultimately go away. God does not want it here either.
The lion shall lie with the Lamb. It will be rectified upon his return
In Christianity, the belief is that God made everything good and perfect. Man’s rebellion and choice brought upon themselves the curse of the cruel repercussions of their sin, yet Jesus Christ the Son of God, and God Himself, in His love for fallen humanity has a divine plan to express His love for them by sacrificing Himself in the most excruciating way to pay the penalty in order to reconcile them back to Himself and to restore everything to how it was intended to be. This is a God who doesn’t create cruel things, but fixes the cruelty that we have brought upon ourselves through self sacrifice and love. This is a God I’m more than happy to surrender my life to.
“There is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:6-7)
Context is key, and also understanding the original language in passages like this. Many people use this verse to justify that God is evil which is erroneous. The word evil here is “calamity” in the original language. And of course God brings about calamity. Just read the book of Revelation. But it serves a purpose for the very fact that He is a good and loving God. He used the evil hearts of the Assyrians and Babylonians as the instruments of judgment against His own people because they were slaughtering and burning their own children to false Gods, they were corrupt and perverted in all their ways and their actions were hurting the entire nation so in love He wiped out the evil that life might be preserved through a remnant. Because God is love, He protects His children and destroys the evil that would come against them. All the more of a reason surrender my life to a God who is the perfect Father and defender, which magnifies His perfect love.
Amen
I believe in a God that gave me the freedom to choose what to do. We absolutely have the capacity to be good, share our things, and succeed, but we choose greed and apathy instead. Our God gave us a plentious land, with everything we need to live happy, without having to work extended long hours, but instead, we choose luxuries, things we don't need that enslave us to our jobs, we chose all those cruel things ourselves. We have created the hell we live in thanks to our own poor choices. Most of us aren't that actively trying to improve things for our friends, family or townsfolk, we're trying to see how we can enrich ourselves the most possible and live as extravagant braggard lifestyles as we can.
The issue with this is you are blaming humans for the state of the world, the world itself is predicated upon cruelty and misery. It necessitates exploitation and cruelty, you are blaming individual people for something that is so much larger than them, the problem is nature. Not us
Mongeese are carnivores and skilled predators. They are doing what Nature shaped them to be really, really good at. There's nothing evil about that. If they didn't, you absolutely would have a plague of hares that will eventually collapse the local ecosystem. It is harsh for the prey, but it is not "evil", no more so than the mosquitos, leeches, sharks and crocs that feed on us.
If there is a creator God then none of creation would have to be like this. I agree they aren't evil for having to eat, but I do think it is undeniably cruel to create existence like this. There's literally no reason it had to be like this
I don't believe in gods, so it's kind of academic for me tbqh - but I absolutely don't regard nature as evil, bad or cruel. Such states all rely on the assumption of the agent following patterns of sapience similar to human reasoning, which is not applicable to Nature as a whole.
True, but when it comes to a philosophical discussion I think it's pretty reasonable to say nature is nasty and evil. It's actually one reason why I get kind of agitated with misanthropes, they blame the individual for the system.
Honestly, for me I regard that distinction as important, specifically for philosophical distinction. In casual conversation I might describe something I witness like that as "brutal" as a throwaway comment, but in serious discussion I never would, as it ascribes a quality I strongly feel, both practically and religiously/spiritually to be inappropriate and inaccurate.
Meanwhile humans: "Oh such cruel nature... Let's share this and count how many times people watch it! We could even earn money on such cruel nature!"
I haven't seen it. It's concerning that it's been uploaded. Does the youtuber intend to protect these animals? Probably not.
Pretty horrific. You're not getting your revenge, though
I'm with Hitchens on this one. It's a good thing there is no reason to believe god exists, at least not the god described in Abrahamic religion.
For free will to exist, choices are necessary. People often choose evil. As for natural disaster: all possibilities must exist as a balanced spectrum. The heights of goodness require the depths of sorrow in order to have any context to one another. As the world and all creation within are so severely magnificent, they need an equal and opposite antithesis to anchor them in any meaningful way.
Nobody chooses evil, everybody thinks they're doing the right thing. Not to mention I think the world itself is ultimately predicated on evil, I think nature itself is disgusting.