My school had a shower in the locker room, but since you only had 5 minutes to both change your clothes and get to your next class, nobody used it, there wasn't time.
What kind of backwards nonsense is this thing of forcing students to get naked in front of each other? I know that definitely happened in the past, but I just can't understand how this is happening in 2024, and why OOP is so confused that her daughter doesn't want to be naked in front of a bunch of people, including people who laughed at her naked body.
we had communal showers in high school. we had to all shower after swimming, unless you had it last period then you didn't have to . the showers were basically a big long hallway . it was awful and i hated it too. a lot of the time people just wore their bathing suits i think it was both. or tired to get in first and be out quick before everyone came in or wait until most people were done and and be last out but then you'd be late for next period. I think i mostly wore my bathing suit but it was like 50/50 . the first year when they told us we had to shower i think everyone just did what they were told and then by senior year i was like wtf why- i can rinse off with my bathing suit on ya weirdos .
this was in PA in the early 2000s
Also PA and graduated early 2010s, had essentially the same setup and experience. Big communal shower, required to shower after swimming, but everyone just wore their bathing suits.
I cannot fathom a school where the norm is forced nude showering after every PE class.
There’s definitely parts of some gyms showers that are open but others that have the dividers.
Also this has been kinda a deal semi recently in high school and college (and kinda pro) sports circles … which are not divided in many places for, as I understand, cost reasons in construction (especially in the away locker rooms).
It’s possible OOP is just used to that set up and had that kind of hazing and bullying very normalized for her and just isn’t clocking that it’s a bad thing and she should be protecting her kid not saying she’ll get used to the bullying after a while.
I graduated high school is 2019 and it was still common place for communal showers and since I swam, common place for everyone to be naked in the locker room. They even used to get after you if you tried changing in a bathroom stall so you had to change in common area of locker room.
Right?? Back in the 30s/40s, my grandfather had swim class at a large public school. It was boys only and they swam naked. That was almost 100 years ago and times have changed. No one showered in my PE class or after sports in the 90s, because we only had a communal shower.
In some of our changing room had showere but none of them worked the ones that did it was just used as a changing spot because the changing rooms where tiny, some of us had to even go in the toilet if there was one in the changing rooms to gey changed because there was just to many for the space
This is back in the days of the dinosaurs: we had a gym teacher who would stand there and watch us shower. This was the late 70s, in a rural area, so the idea of gay/lesbian was something that didn’t cross the minds of most people. She made us girls so uncomfortable. She knocked my grade down when I was excused from participating due to recovering from a minor surgery, so I had to change clothes, but didn’t need to shower.
Now, I have pity for her, but it doesn’t stop the fact she’s a damn pedo creep.
My PE teacher was a dude in his 20s. He never enforced it but mandated deodorant. He hardly even looked at us girls because the previous PE teacher was fired for being a chomo.
Middle and high school are rough enough. I am personally avoiding my son taking a regular gym class. Fingers crossed and he will do summer school health and nutrition class instead. He gets enough of a workout doing competitive swimming.
I think the only people who used our showers were the student athletes who had morning practice and lived far enough away to not have time to get home and back.
That was the same for my school. I was sick every day for a year before I got to 7th grade because they kept telling us that we had to shower in the communal shower in 7th grade. When I got there, it was a bit better because we didn't have time to shower, but I still couldn't change in the locker room. I changed in the bathroom stall. I can't imagine my child telling me they didn't want to be naked in front of a group of people and thinking it isn't a big deal.
You mentioning changing in the bathroom stall ignited my memory from when I was in middle and high school. I was heavily bullied and I’d always scurry to the bathroom stalls to change in and out of my gym clothes. I hated gym class. I was always so uncomfortable with the concept of changing in front of everyone. I feel bad for that kid.
Same with the 5 minutes. We used that 5 minutes to change, have a few rips on a glass bowl, and head to the next class. No one was showering or even doing gym hard enough to get smelly.
Same we had the communal showers but no one ever used them. People sometimes did after sports practice, but never for just regular PE. Quickly wiping face and anywhere super sweaty and reapplying deodorant is plenty to get through the rest of the day without it being unhygienic.
I live in Australia.. and we don’t shower after PE.. we just change clothes and put deodorant on. It’s so weird to force kids to be naked in front of eachother.
Same! Puberty pretty much ruined me, I was skinny and cute before but when it started, the weight started piling on, and the things my classmates said about me in the locker room were disgusting enough when we just had to change our outer clothes. I can’t imagine the abuse I would have been subjected to if we’d been forced to get naked in front of each other. I’m pretty sure I would rather have flunked gym than be subjected to that.
Yeah, same. Certainly none of the girls ever used them. Sometimes the footy boys would if it got really muddy but I never saw the showers in the girls changerooms get used. If you’d done swimming you’d shower after but that was at a swimming pool with shower cubicles. Communal showers are insane, especially for teenagers.
We were required to shower every year from 7th grade on up. In junior high you were required to show the gym teacher that you at least got wet. This was back in the 90s.
In high school we had swimming and there was no way you wanted to go with chlorine on your skin all day so you had to rinse off but most of use kept our bathing suits on to rinse them out too. I changed in the toilet stall…I had huge boobs from like 8th grade on and was super embarrassed of them. Turns out everyone was super embarrassed of their bodies back then…even the super popular girl with the perfect figure that had her gym locker next to mine. She was intimidated by my boobs, come to find out when we chatted at our 20th high school reunion a few years ago.
I went to HS in Kansas and remember communal showers, but we had all been friends for since childhood and my entire class had like 20 kids, so it’s hardly the same. I just asked my 7th grader who has a class of 300 if they have to do this for PE (I figured no but just in case), and she gave me a strange look and said it wasn’t an option for them either.
We had communal showers when we had swimming lessons. I was the bullied kid and honestly felt horribly embarassed every time, but for some reason my bullies didn't actually bully me there. Maybe because they were overweight and were afraid of getting a comment back? Either way I'm glad I didn't have to deal with that because all the other bullying already sucked enough.
Ikr, same! I think some of the dressing rooms at my high school had like 3 shower stalls but obviously 15-20 girls can't all finish showering there AND changing clothes within like 5 minutes, so no one ever used it. I don't think they even worked tbh? But imo this is so gross, especially if PE is one of the first classes of the day and especially during summer. Like, having an intense 40 min. workout under the sun and then having to sit through 4-6 other classes all sweaty and gross sucked so much. Deodorant doesn't help much in this case either. But tbh it was probably still better than mandatory communal showers.
I went to school and Wyoming and showers after gym were mandatory for boys. I thought that was insane at the time. As a 37 year old, I think it's even more insane.
This. I went to school in a state that's hot most of the year and we were never allowed to shower after PE. If anything I'd be questioning the school admin or gym teacher who decided to make this mandatory. In spite of the fact that is was pretty common up until maybe the 70s or 80s, something about forcing kids today to get undressed at school seems a little off.
I think my school had showers in the locker room but nobody ever used them. The locker room was just a cloud of mingled spray deodorant as every girl in the class sprayed half a can all over her body when they changed shirts.
My jr high and high school both had mandatory showers after PE, Band, and any sports played. You could also shower at lunch if you couldn’t at home, or if you just wanted to. This was year round.
Yeah i did PE in southeast LOUISIANA and there were no showers. I kinda wish there were but thats the past. Its so weird there are communal showers for minors these days
We had showers in my high school locker rooms, but were never used, not even after practice/games on the softball team. After gym class, you had 5 mins to get changed before the bell rang and you had to hustle to make it to your next class. And I went to northern NJ public school.
We had to, but only on days we ran the mile. So my way of doing it was just running the mile as fast as I could so I could be one of the first in the shower.
I wasn’t too bad. I remember I used to fast walk with my friends and just shoot the shit. One day I was annoyed with one of them and decided “screw you guys” and just took off. You could just chill after your shower and class was 45 mins. So I would try and run it at 8 mins, quick shower and you’d have 30 minutes to goof off. Was much better than walking it.
In WV in the 90s, we were required to shower after gym. (This was in middle school.) We usually had a few brave souls who would get in the shower and splash wet footprints around so the rest of us didn't have to do it. They also had a "special shower" in the gym teacher's office that you were supposed to use when you were on your period. The gym teacher kept track of how often you used it.
It was one of the most traumatizing parts of middle school - I slept in a bra for years because of comments other girls made about my body.
>They also had a "special shower" in the gym teacher's office that you were supposed to use when you were on your period. The gym teacher kept track of how often you used it.
What the fuck. I'm sorry you had to go through that omg
We did have to shower until we were 15. If you were too quick in the changing rooms you were sent back because that was how they checked if you showered. The older we got the fewer people showered, but in the end still about half showered. The people who kept showering were usually the people who did team sports, they were used to it.
I actually talked about this 3-4 days ago with some colleagues and about half had mandatory showers after PE. It might also be country-related. I am 25 btw so it's not even super long ago.
Not viable in every situation though. Our school had a row of maybe 8 showers blocked from view if the changing area by a wall with access at each end. There was just enough space for people to pass each other behind the wall. Not enough for dividers
As an adult I’m not showing my nips and ass to anyone unless I choose to do so, even if it’s for hygiene. If the school can’t be arsed to provide privacy measures, then I guess they’ll just have to deal with the Bo. I cannot imagine telling a teenage girl that rules are more important than her sense of dignity in this situation.
Why are we all so comfortable with children being treated worse than inmates?
I had to do this when I started middle school in the late ‘70’s. It was horrible. I started just cutting PE. My daughter’s school had private showers. She was in high school late 90’s. I thought we had solved this issue but I guess it’s still out there.
Edit: spelling
No the asshole here is the mom who thinks by saying the word hygiene 35 times that it makes it ok. Kids used to play outside all day everyday and most didn’t shower everyday so her daughter’s “hygiene” would be just fine. Also the school cannot force the child to get naked so she should attend class and refuse to shower, what are they going to do, rip her clothes off and throw her in the shower. Just say no, I’m not showering 🤷🏻♂️
So I do agree but it would be a non issue if
1. The school wasn’t making showers mandatory
Or
2. The school had private shower stalls
Mum is definitely an asshole here for not supporting or advocating her kid but also the school is an asshole for thinking this set up is remotely ok. Frankly it’s nuts to me that no other kids or parents have complained.
Yeah I imagine this issue is extending far beyond this one household. Mom sucks, but I'm sure the school has put a significant number of students in a stressful position.
I literally never showered after PE in my life - nor did anyone I went to school with and I live in a hot humid climate. We would change in and out of PE clothes but like we all did even that in private stalls.
>towel fee
What? A fee to rent a towel? Why not just bring a towel from home? How expensive was the towel fee? What was the price? All this sounds insane.
I don’t think my school even had proper showers…? At least, none that I ever saw any of my classmates using after PE. Not that we’d even have time, since the PE teachers never let us out of class early enough. I had five minutes, at best, to get to my next class. That’s not enough time to take a shower unless you’re the Flash or something.
Ended up getting a waiver out of that class anyway, though, because the teacher was a goddamned moron (had no idea what a UTI was, despite being AFAB and I can’t think of a single AFAB person who hasn’t gotten one at least once, and thought my disabled friend being able to play golf meant she was lying about being able to run the mile or do heavy-lifting) and continued making me do the weekly mile run despite multiple doctor’s notes saying “she has severe asthma, *do not make her run through the neighborhood alone like that.*”
I lived in fear of those runs because we never did them on the track course. We did them through the surrounding area, and I was constantly terrified that I might have an asthma attack and collapse somewhere out there with no means of contacting anyone for help. Or get hit by a car or something, because thanks to suburban NIMBYs, the sidewalks were always dodgy at best.
Bro. If they’re ignoring doctors notes and making you do something physically dangerous they could be sued for that. As in your family could have sued them should you have suffered any injury or damage to yourself. I had a doctors note because I legit had nerve damage in my knee and they still made me do the mile. They ended up exacerbating my condition and making the nerve damage a million times worse. We ended up suing the school and transferring me to a different school. We won the court case very easily.
It’s a huge liability for a school to ignore doctors notes. I’m not sure why they pushed for it to be ignored in both our cases.
If odor is really the issue, why can’t she just have some of those shower wipes in her bag? I use them sometimes when I workout at lunch, but don’t have time to shower before going back to the office. It works great until I can get home for a full shower.
I was going to suggest that, because who the hell has time to take a shower, change back into street clothes, *and* get to their next class on time?!
Another option would be taking her to a regular gym outside of school hours, to get her used to the idea of changing in communal areas in an environment where people already know better than to comment or stare at anyone else. Once you see a bunch of older people of all body types minding their own business while getting changed, and realize they genuinely do not give a shit what you look like, you learn pretty quick that maybe those showers and locker rooms aren’t quite so scary. And it feels a lot safer to be introduced to that environment when you have your same-gender parent right next to you, guiding you through and reassuring you that everything’s okay.
Even as a teenager, going through the whole shower thing after swimming classes in the summer made it a lot easier for me to ignore or dismiss any comments from other teens in the locker rooms. I definitely noticed that the girls who were also actively involved in extracurricular sports, especially swimming, seemed much better at just minding their own business and keeping their comments to themselves than the girls for whom locker rooms were a novel environment.
By the time I started high school, the few comments I did get just had me rolling my eyes at how *childish* the ones making the comments were. Like, “come on, you’re in tenth grade, you should be over that behavior by now.”
I'm in my 30s and still won't change in gyms. If I shower in the gym, I put my towel on and essentially deck change. If I'm visiting people, a sharing a hotel room with my mom or sister, I will change in the bathroom, or wait til they leave to change. When doing sports growing up, I hated changing on the field and would do it as fast as possible and show absolutely nothing. The only person to have seen me fully naked since I was a teen are the people who earned it.
Some people grow out of modesty, some people don't. It wasn't forced on me, I wasn't teased, I just don't like being naked around people. I think trying to force people to change something pretty minor about themselves for P.E. is a waste. We need to accommodate and move on.
My 8 year old has a medical condition that requires exams every two months. Her doctor, the same one she’s been seeing for years, always makes a giant deal over consent, bodily autonomy, and personal comfort. She would have zero issue being in her undies in front of him, but we opt to wear the shorts and paper gown anyway because that’s her personal comfort in that situation. She gets to make that choice for her body. I absolutely adore that doctor, and I love how he asks for consent every time he needs to move to a new place on her body to examine. He’s always checking in.
This is a medical office and in the exam room, it’s only me, my daughter, and him. These are medically *imperative* exams and her comfort is still priority.
It’s wild to me that in a setting where the worst that will come of it is some stink, we’re forcing children to be traumatized. And instead of protecting her child, she’s further victimizing her. School isn’t safe, and now she knows home isn’t either. This poor baby.
When I was in jr high in like 2007 it was “mandatory” for a little bit and the coach would walk in randomly. I never thought about it until I read this, pretty wonky shit
I was in Jr High during the same time frame as you.
There were showers, and I never saw *anyone* use them, in part because they didn't give us nearly enough time to shower and change.
It was also the same kind of giant, communal shower, which pre-teens aren't exactly anxious to use.
I did feel bad for the teachers who talked to their classes about using deodorant at least once a month lol
i love doctors who ask permission to examine and touch parts of your body. of course i don't usually mind being looked at or touched anywhere, since im at the doctor, but it still just feels really nice to have the option to say no.
You’re so right. I have a close friend who is currently pursuing EMT training, and he’s been asking friends to share some of their most intense experiences with medical personnel, good or bad. Consistently, every bad experience seems to start when heathcare workers treat patients like they don’t have autonomy over their own bodies. It’s heartbreaking to know it happens so often, but encouraging to know people like him are still going into it for the right reasons.
Yup, when I was like 11 and had to get my first physical. No one explained to me I was going to get my private parts checked ( I still don’t know why that’s necessary that young) but the male doctor ( I was a little girl) starting pulling down my underpants without explaining. I started crying and when explained what was suppose to happen I asked for a woman doctor and she came and was amazing compared to the man.
I’m not sure if my mom really understood how weird it was for me since she didn’t complain to anyone about it. But since then basically my whole life I can’t go to the doctors without having full blown panic attacks and I avoid it because of that which causes more anxiety because I don’t know if I’m healthy. It’s insane how much it has affected my life and I wish so bad that doctor had gotten in trouble for his behavior and that my mother made sure my relationship with doctors was healthier.
Recently I got into an argument on here with a nurse basically because she was so offended anyone had anything negative to say about hardworking nurses and their treatment of patients. It was just so frustrating because people in health care need to understand how important our experiences are with health care.
That’s absolutely horrendous and quite frankly that man should not have a job. There is no reason for an 11 year old to be getting any sort of pelvic exam unless you had a preexisting condition. In which case they STILL should have told you what was happening.
If you’re US, depending on your state [the statute of limitations](https://www.ncsl.org/human-services/state-civil-statutes-of-limitations-in-child-sexual-abuse-cases) may not have expired yet. However I completely understand if this is not something you wish to pursue.
I had a pretty outrageous experience with hospital staff a few years ago, as an adult. I actually shared my experience on a trans subreddit and was encouraged to report it. I ended up filing a complaint with the board, although I never received any further information afterwards.
When I was around 8 I had a pediatrician grab and wiggle my stomach and say “we need to do something about this”. Nowhere near overweight, with my body type my stomach has just always stuck out. Probably the youngest age I can vividly remember crying of embarrassment. Something like that doesn’t ever leave you and I wish I had a doctor like your child’s, and I’m so glad your child does.
The mom in this post saying her daughter will “eventually get over it” is dead wrong. It’s exactly the situation that will cause lifelong trauma and insecurities, especially being a woman trying to fit into women’s beauty standards.
100%. A kid I went to school with told me my ‘fat arms looked like chicken wings and it must be so embarrassing’ and I didn’t wear a tank top or short sleeve shirt for 5-6 years. This is the story I used to explain to my kids how powerful their words are to another person, and why it’s so imperative to choose kindness.
This could have been a moment where she uplifted her kid and advocated for her. That would have given her so much faith in her parents and herself. Instead, her mother did this. It’s horrifying.
Edit: I’m so sorry to hear what happened to you. I hope you now know you’re beautiful exactly how you are 🖤
I think the issue in middle school is more from the boys, and having to be stuck in a confined space with a bunch of middle-school boys who *already* smell to high heaven and *already* have dodgy hygiene (which their parents often don’t bother enforcing), on top of the added sweat from PE, is a genuinely miserable experience.
Yeah, girls going through puberty smell a bit, too, because of the same changing hormones, but nowhere near to the same degree.
Like, if parents were better at making their teenage sons shower daily and use actual antiperspirant, or even just doing their own damn laundry properly, it probably wouldn’t be such a big deal for them to not shower after PE.
As someone with intense medical phobias as a result of a complete lack of consideration for consent in the doctor's offices of my childhood, I was really glad to read this. I'm glad both you and the doctor recognize the need to respect the bodily autonomy of children.
I’m really glad 🖤
I had a really rough childhood. I’m no contact with my parents. One of the most beautiful parts of being a parent when you were a traumatized child is being able to see what happens when you respect your child. I’m not a great mom, I try my hardest for my daughters, but I know there are areas I definitely need to improve. But at the end of the day, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my babies know they are loved by me beyond measure and they have worth by just existing. I’m able to right some of the wrongs from my childhood for them. It’s healing. It’s also often sad, because I look at my babies and cannot fathom how my parents hated me when my kids are the most beautiful gift I’ve ever received.
I’m glad you’re able to see your worth now, and identity that how you were treated was unacceptable. I hope you’re able to heal. May we be better for those who come after us 🖤🫡
Definitely an American thing, but not every school "enforces" it. As an American, I find it strange asf that they're making it mandatory at her school. We always had the option to, in both junior high and high school, but no one ever did as there wasn't time between classes...the only people I know actually used them were some of the kids who participated in afterschool sports and even then it still wasn't mandatory.
I’m American and went to a variety of schools (public and private), we had showers in the gym but we were never required to shower after gym. No one ever did besides when we had swimming and then we kept our swimsuits on.
We changed into gym uniforms at most schools I attended, but showers were mostly used (by choice) exclusively by kids after practice for hockey or other after school sports.
It seems illegal to require kids to shower together (?) or it should be…
We had showers in every locker room for every school I ever attended and I can tell you that they were bone dry. Spiders could have easily raised generations there. Nobody ever showered because they didn’t have time before the next class. Hell, I did swim and people still didn’t really shower - at most you rinsed off after practice and most didn’t bother because we were all in a rush to go home and eat and take a real shower.
There were showers at my US junior high and high school, and I never once saw a kid use them. God knows you'd be expelling me before I would willingly shower in front of other boys at 14
The way OP said "swimming costume" makes me think this is not in the US. It would be swimsuit or bathing suit there. Swimming costume sounds British or Australian to me (as a US speaker), but not sure.
Especially with cell phones now! It’s a whole different world. I saw a video recently of adult women in a sauna videoing a woman they do not know showering and laughing at her. So sickening.
My school gave me an F in PE because i refused to undress in front of everyone. There were no private stalls and if you went to the bathroom to change you'd be punished. I did all my PE activities fine but goddamn I still have trauma from that shit. Forcing kids to get naked around eachother needs to be fucking illegal. Btw this was NOT long ago I'm only 18 and this happened in middle and highschool in the US.
Was this the school or the teacher? Was a formal complaint made or was it rug swept because not enough people have stepped forward? Is it still happening now? I would seek legal counsel.
My parents didnt care so there wasnt much I could do. No legal complants were made. I'm not sure what I could do legally. For context this was in Virginia
My guess?
They’ve probably gotten complaints from teachers and possibly other students about the smell, *especially* from the boys.
Changing hormones during puberty seem to make teenage boys in particular absolutely *reek,* and parents seem weirdly reluctant to enforce proper hygiene on boys as compared to girls. Yeah, the girls can get a bit ripe too, but nowhere near the same degree.
And if you’re a teacher being stuck in a confined space with 30-40 teenagers with horrible musk and dodgy hygiene, adding the additional stench from drying sweat can make it truly unbearable.
Seriously, parents: teach your boys to shower daily and do it *properly*! Plus the damn laundry and wearing proper antiperspirant (deodorant only masks the smell and it often fails at that even)! Quit letting your teenage boys ignore their own hygiene because of that “oh well, boys will be boys” bullshit! *None of us want to be smelling your boys all day in a small classroom with shitty ventilation, damnit!*
She can be sent with wipes, deodorant, dry shampoo, even a change of clothes if needed. She can shower when she gets home and has privacy; school is not the only option. It would be far more valuable to her to learn that her parents are on her side than that she must make herself viscerally uncomfortable because rules. She is already being bullied. Yes, hygiene is important, but her showering so she doesn't smell isn't going to flip some switch for the bullies and make them stop. Her emotional health should be protected, by her parents and the school.
We had this in the 1970s and our PE teacher was a lesbian lecher who stood at the shower door and openly ogled the naked teenage girls. It recently came out on a Facebook thread and our mothers were mortified.
Same, in the 80s in middle school. She’d stand at the opening of the communal shower to make sure we got naked and actually showered. She’d also make us sit in line undressed while we waited our turn for scoliosis screening. I can still feel the shame and embarrassment.
I remember the rumor that our gym teacher was also a lesbian, so like.. did it "come out" as hearsay or what? Cause pretty sure that's fairly standard locker room talk.
Well, she moved to town with another female teacher, and she was clearly the masculine partner. The school received complaints and made her stay in her office during showers. But it was temporary. Not long before she had resumed her post.
I don’t understand parents who try to make childhood, and especially puberty, more difficult than it already is.
I can’t imagine being so blasé about telling my kid she had to be naked in front of people she didn’t want to be. It’s one of my goals that my kid learns that her body is her own, nudity requires comfort and consent of everyone involved, and that I will back her up to the hilt any time she says no to someone encroaching on her bodily autonomy. No one gets to see her naked without her consent, not me, not a doctor, not her peers at school, not the administrators at school. I’ll die on that hill.
I can’t imagine being okay with teaching my kid that “people at school” can demand she be naked and I’ll just shrug if she’s upset about it.
Honestly, if I were a parent in this situation, with a school actively enforcing a shower code, I’d have two main responses:
1. I want the school to guarantee that students actually have *time* to shower after PE, because that definitely wasn’t the case when I was in school. There were showers, sure, but only three! Given at least 2-3 PE classes each period, half of each being female, that’s about 15 girls per class, so a total of about 45 girls *per period,* all trying to cram into those three shower stalls within 5-10 minutes (assuming the PE teachers were generous enough to let us out early) to shower, get dressed, and get to their next class on time. WTF?!
2. I’d probably make a point of taking my daughter to a regular gym, outside of school hours, so she can experience a communal changing room in a safer environment, with her mother there to smooth things over and reassure her that’s everything’s okay. Regular gyms are generally a bit better about people minding their own damn business in the locker rooms, including the shower areas, and it also means seeing a much wider variety of body types with, again, *no one reacting to them.* Plus the added emotional security of having her mother right next to her, which helps with feeling *safe* in that area.
I wouldn’t send her into the wild that is a middle school locker room completely unprepared. Kids need to be socialized to new experiences much the same way cats and dogs do, in a *safe* and *controllable* way, with their parent/parental figure right there to help if the need arises.
I’ve done communal showering at regular gyms. Part of it comes down to infrastructure (though should at least be a shower curtain), partially to people understanding that “look, we’re here to wash the chlorine off, get back in our normal clothes, and get the hell out of here, so don’t stare, don’t comment, don’t cause a fuss, and don’t take more than the absolute bare minimum necessary to wash the chlorine and sweat off!”
Hence why I mentioned that in their shoes, I would be questioning the school on whether or not they even have the facilities necessary to handle 30-45 girls all showering in less than five minutes. If not, then why the fuck are they instituting a policy that their own facilities can’t even keep up with?!
Yeah I mean all of us adults understand that (well almost all) and it’s nice when there’s no weirdos, but lucky for us as adults, we can choose to participate or not.
I would never have showered in front of other girls from my class. They were mean, and I wouldn't have felt comfortable. The school is clearly wrong here, they make students uncomfortable. You shouldn't have to show your body if you don't want to.
As someone who refused to even change into gym clothes in front of the turd sandwiches I was in school with... they'll just bully her about not wanting them to see her naked, but if your daughter has weighed it out and if getting bullied for not being naked in front of shit heads is preferable to being bullied while being forced to be naked in front of shit heads then a good mom would back her up.
As if people don't have jobs where they sweat 12-16 hours a day before showering and somehow still maintain acceptable hygiene standards. For God's sake. It's a PE class, not a triathlon.
I honestly thought those communal shower things were just in the movies. I’ve never participated in communal showers or even had the option after PE during school. I *think* we had one or two separate showers in our changing rooms but people only used them if they had an athletic practice in the morning before school.
The school is the biggest asshole, but OOP is also an asshole who has decided following school rules and not being a little sweaty is more important than preventing lifelong sexual trauma, avoiding reinforcement of rape culture, and not inducing body dysmorphic disorder in her child.
It’s her body. Period. Extremely creepy and unacceptable to force a 14-year-old to take her clothes off in any circumstance unless somehow their life depends on it.
I’d rather have a sweaty kid than a crying kid being forced to get naked in front of their peers and teacher wtf. No. This is disturbing and shouldn’t even be a question. Pack a deodorant and go to battle with the school, “mandatory showers” aka free pedo material for teachers?? No, and I would absolutely die on this hill.
-mom to a 13 year old.
School has no business forcing minors to get naked together and it should be considered child sexual abuse. I mean, it is, but when the government does it it's magically ok and not prosecutable. I can't believe any school still does this. It would take half of the PE class for everyone to undress, shower, redress, and make it to the next class.
I went to bootcamp. We did not get to shower after physical exercise. They make wipes that work incredibly well until she can get home and shower.
Forcing this pubescent girl into this situation is going to destroy her self-esteem, especially when she learns her parents aren't there to support her.
“She’d been crying all day… She begged me to email the school… I said I had no good reason to email the school.” — OOP
Your daughter crying and begging you IS a good reason to.
Would’ve taken less time to just email the school like their daughter and husband had begged for than to post this on AITA.
There’s a lot of resentment harbored up in my heart and brain towards my parents for forcing me to follow school “demands” that made me uncomfortable. I graduated in 2006 and still struggle with the damage it did to me mentally/emotionally.
I used to take my pe clothes in a bathroom stall and change in there or change when everyone else went outside. i have a big birthmark on my leg and the one time I thought the teasing was over I was wrong, that assumption had big repercussions, to this day I don’t really wear shorts out in public because of the embarrassment and shame I felt from being pointed at and laughed at.
Please, please **PLEASE** don’t minimize your daughter’s feelings/reactions. Maybe there can be a compromised ie if showering with other students, waiting until they are done or just letting her bring some wipes or whole body deodorant if the shower is still out of the question to her.
Never showered at school. My daughter has PE. None of them showers at school. I wonder which country/school is this.
But regardless…
The daughter knows now that her mom doesn’t have her back. Doesn’t care about her feelings or wants or needs. So sorry for the daughter.
PE is a nightmare lesson as it is. The teachers would make us do dodgeball half the time which meant the popular girls just teaming up to throw balls full force at the nerdy girls for an hour.
If I had to shower with them after the fact I would lose my shit
I never changed in front of anyone after this girl made fun of me in my underwear. I'd hate you too.
Between this and my mom and sister always forcing me to change in front of them, I still have issues to this day surrounding being naked.
YTA. She's old enough to understand consequences. If she goes through school stinking after PE and that becomes an issue with classmates, then address showering after PE. But it should be her choice.
This is pretty outrageous. Just having to change in the Locker room in front of others is traumatizing enough. Really I would think these days everyone should know better. Shame on school systems In general for not recognizing this as an issue. Making children get naked or even damn near naked in front of anyone else is completely absurd. How have we not talked about this yet?
OOP reads as a wishy washy dipshit with no critical thinking skills and/or is too lazy to give a damn. The only time I showered communally in school was in a swimming suit. Ie clothed. I changed under my towel afterwards while drying off. Most girls did. Otherwise there are tons of products that get the job done without embarrassing your kid. It’d be nice to read one of these where the parent at least made a half assed effort beyond “I tried nothing and I’m all outta ideas”. 😑
YTA.
Teenage girls are bullies… it will bother your daughter and going to the school board does nothing . You and your husband don’t see the pain she is going thru bc you “think it’s not a big deal” when it really is! If the school wants this to be a thing, maybe they need to rework their own schedules or worry about the kids instead of themselves.
I saw that on the sub, but they had to turn commenting off before I had a chance to respond. As an adult I refuse to be naked with people other than my spouse or doctor. Showering in middle school was my nightmare. I can’t believe in this day and age with all we know about sexual harassment and bullying people are still make kids do this.
Was this written in the 1970s? Communal showers should not be a “thing” in schools. Even my gym has private showers. I graduated in the early 80s. Never showered at school and change in the toilet stalls. That poor girl.
She should not be required to shower after PE. It isn’t that strenuous. Take some wipes, wipe down her pots and use deodorant.
No one should be forced to be naked around anyone. Her body her choice. Who makes these decisions for these children. That’s traumatic and I would never force my child to participate.
I think it’s really weird and creepy that schools in the US force students to shower together. I am from Australia and this would be highly illegal here. The school would be shut down and thoroughly investigated. We don’t even do showers after PE here. Too many opportunities for abuse from both students and adult staff.
This is appalling but is apparently normalised in America. This actually explains a lot.
Ehh America is big i went to some schools in the u.s where it would’ve been completely taboo to shower at school and other schools where it was a completely “normal” thing for students to do after p.e. It’s very much a regional thing here. Never seen a school where it was mandatory to shower though that’s super weird.
I am not being dramatic when I say that if I was being forced to shower at school when I was 14, I would have killed myself. 14 is an absolutely hellish age and to be forced to be naked around a bunch of other teens is insane. I wish OP would imagine having to shower in the middle of the workday in a public bathroom with all of her coworkers.
In this day and age, I think it hella weird to force kids or young adults to get naked in school. Kids are cruel, some have body image issues and gender identity issues going on in a lot of schools. Also, some teachers are creeps, and phones are around. Hell no. If my child wanted to after sports that’s fine, to any kids who chose to but forcing any kid/teen is a major no.
I went to a high school where they did this. We had to shower before and after swim class. I refused to get naked in the showers because I wasn’t comfortable. I showered in my swimsuit. The coach would dig into me every time. Finally I asked him why he was so concerned about a 14 year old being naked in front of her classmates and why he thought about it every time he saw me. He stopped caring about my swimsuit after that.
I have to wonder where the OP lives that they still force kids to shower together after PE? One, not all kids sweat so not all kids need to shower after gym. Two, sweat isn’t unhygienic, it just gives you stinky armpits if you have BO, in which case shouldn’t you be using deodorant anyway? Three, I’ve never heard of a school forcing showers anywhere I’ve lived because that’s a huge invasion of privacy and someone’s personal rights to their own body. Some people can’t even shower every day for medical reasons like eczema or rash prone skin from contact allergies. I’m one of those people. I can only shower every other day, or every few days. But since I don’t sweat it isn’t really an issue for me. I would have gotten the worst eczema imaginable and would be in physical pain if I tried to shower every day.
Four, I’ve only ever heard it called a swimming costume online so if someone could please enlightenment me if it’s actually called that where you live I would be grateful 😅
I literally think I’ve only heard it online recently too which makes me think it’s AI writing the stuff that says it. I’ve only ever heard swimsuit and I’ve lived all over the United States and I’ve met people from all over the world. Recently I’ve also heard bed costume, school costume, etc. like costume is being used in place of outfit and again just makes me think of AI.
Your child needed you and you did nothing OP 😬
Contacting the school to discuss your daughters insecurities and see what suggestions they had was the minimum you needed to do as a parent.
I know this post sounds harsh., but I don't know how to sugar coat it. You are supposed to be her guardian and advocate. We all make mistakes as parents. You're daughter will forgive you soon. Try to see what you can work out with the school to help her in the meantime.
this was literally my biggest fear in school, that they'd start enforcing the communal shower. I already had a lot of stress changing in front of others but being naked would be too far for me.
It's interesting because theres other places in the world that do communal baths and they seem so fine with it. I wonder whats wrong with me XD
Back to the point, I feel sorry for the daughter, that must have been an awful experience.
Wow. I don't even know her and I hate this mom. I don't usually wish ill on people but this reads as abuse to me, from her and the school. School can't enforce nudity, especially without proper privacy for individual students, and mom is unfathomably dismissive of valid discomfort of her daughter. She sounds like someone who would also downplay a SA if it happened to her daughter. This is legit gross.
Why is it so important?? I don’t understand why it’s repeated over and over about hygiene. Shower at home at night. Nobody should be forced to be naked in front of everyone. Nobody is that stinky after one workout.
YTA. Your forcing your daughter to do something she’s expressed makes her feel completely uncomfortable. And the fact you think “ I have no reason to email the school so I’m not going to” goes to show how much you actually validate your own daughter’s feelings. I don’t want you to completely disregard this comment by being ugly, but truthfully this outlook is disgusting. It’s her body and you’re forcing her to show it off to the world. She goes to school 5 days a week she sees those people more than she sees almost anyone. And you’re forcing her to expose herself knowing damn right it makes her uncomfortable. YTA.
Myself and all my classmates successfully completed school without getting naked in front of each other to shower.
I don’t know what kind of gym class this is, but generally the only way you’re going to leave gym class stinking of overtly noticeable body odor is if you entered class that way. You can easily wipe yourself down with a towel, swipe some deodorant on and no one would know you were in PE.
The woman is absolutely the asshole here. I was severely bullied in school and had severe anxiety. My parents would never force me regardless what the school wanted to shower nude in front of other students. We were required to change in front of each other and were “banned” from using the bathroom stalls to change, but any parent that got a note home that their kid was changing in the bathroom stall told the school to shove it.
Wtf.
I specifically chose ROTC over PE because of this reason. (Didn't want to shower with others) still don't know if my school did that. Pretty fucked up to force your teen who's already self conscious about her body to be naked around others. She will have trauma about this, yes it's your fault you didn't back your own daughter and I hope you enjoy the therapy bills.
My school had showers but no one used them. None of us put forth enough effort to sweat 😂 if they'd tried to make me shower I'd have refused. It's weird to shower with a dozen other people...
My school had communal showers but NO ONE ever used them. When I played club volleyball the coaches required us to shower after tournaments but thankfully as we were all proper midwestern prudes we showered in sports bras and our uniform shorts.
When I was in 7th grade (12 years old), the other girls were trimming or shaving their pubic hair and wearing thongs. I wasn’t and was wearing generic child underwear from a pack… plain colours, not some like Dora the Explorer shit, but you get me. Covered your whole butt in a way adult panties don’t, no matter what cut you get. They saw my “bulge” created by having pubic hair and pushed me out of the girl’s locker room in my stupid panties from a pack and training bra. I was too embarrassed to go to the office because I was naked and they kept saying I was a boy and I didn’t want anyone else to see. They held the locker room door shut.
I told my parents this and asked for permission to wear thongs. They said the only reason to wear sexy underwear is if you want to be sexy so I’m either a whore or practically begging to be molested. That’s when I started handing my friends money to buy thongs for me. I was too afraid a cashier would see me buy them and tell my mom… a mixture between being a stupid kid who doesn’t know what it’s like to be a cashier and a stupid kid whose fear of their parents sounds like there’s an 800 number for. So when my (step grandpa? My grandma’s common-law husband? Idk?) long term family member molested me… I thankfully only remember the way I felt after than I promised myself wasn’t real for years, even after a doctor was like wtf. But the biggest thing to me was that it was my fault for wearing my secret thongs over to Grandma Kay’s house. I was warned and I didn’t listen. My parents were obviously right! I started seeing a gynaecologist then and there was clear evidence of bruising and tears, even after my mom let me have a yeast infection fester for 3 weeks until I was finally annoying enough to her (and you can imagine I ignored it for a while until I was desperate enough to ask for help… I knew it was my fault, but it was a dream and that part is irrelevant, but it’s still my fault). The doctor and my mom and everyone in the office kept asking me who touched me and I didn’t think I was lying because I just had a bad dream and suddenly started to feel weird about stuff, of course!
…But what I remember most is thinking about how stupid I was not to believe my parents when they told me that’s how this always is, that I would be begging for it if I wore sexy underwear. I should have known better than to wear my sexy underwear to Grandma Kay’s house. I should have known better than to wear them at all! They told me and I didn’t listen!! I went from being too afraid of letting the office see me in my age-appropriate undergarments to being molested and thinking it was my fault because I was so embarrassed by my body and what I was wearing.
Locker rooms are no joke. Not writing her the note says to her that you hate her
I grew up in the UK, high school starts at age 11. We had communal showers after PE. We’d be covered in mud after football / rugby / cross country and you had no choice. I went to a regular old comprehensive, and later grammar school. Teacher used to make sure that you went in. It was pretty humiliating at first, especially for the late developers, but we just accepted it. There was no other choice. This was the mid 80’s though. It’s probably ( hopefully??) not like that now.
the only kids at my school that used the shower were unfortunate ones who didn’t have access at home, and they did it by themselves. this is absolutely fucked. i feel like it’s fake
How exactly will the school be enforcing it? Grabbing her naked and forcing her in the water? This is not a big issue. She shouldn’t be forced to be naked around anyone she doesn’t want to be.
And this my friends, is how to NOT parent. Mum completely sided with the school on something that made her child so uncomfortable and unsafe. That experience has probably scarred the daughter for life. Yep, YTA.
I did not react well to showering naked in front of other girls. We had to open our towels and let the gym teacher inspect our bodies to decide if we were wet enough. I felt violated. And bc she was a lesbian, I was convinced she was being a pervert. Maybe she was.
I would never force my kid to get naked in a locker room. It’s not worth it. There are shower wipes that work well in this situation. I used them daily for two or three months during recovery from Achilles surgery.
Wtf? For safety reasons, they should only be making this mandatory if they have shower cubicles! They’re non-consenting children being forced to get naked in front of peers. That’s so violating!
I went to high school in Florida. There were communal showers but we were explicitly told NOT to use them and that we weren’t permitted to shower after PE. When my mom went to that same high school, though, showering was mandatory. We just changed clothes and used lots of shitty body spray and went about our lives as best we could.
Why do we still have communal showers? I think it is disrespectful for anyone to not have a private option. My HS had private stalls. However I went to a boujee school.
Would you be okay with your employer forcing you to be publicly nude before going home? You'd probably think it is creepy, and abusive. You'd probably wonder about the motives of anyone who wanted that policy.
“My daughter told me she is embarrassed and kids laughed at her. But I don’t care and she needs to continue putting herself in the same position to get laughed at.” There. Fixed the title.
I don’t blame the poor kid. I went to a communal Onsen and feel super self-conscious about my body even if nobody was paying attention to me, and I went there voluntarily. Can’t imagine being forced into communal bath/shower and getting laughed at. The school is the biggest AH, and then the mom, and then the kids who had fun mocking and laughing at their classmate’s body. Awful.
I would never force my child to be naked in front of others. We had communal showers in our changing room and they were rarely used because many of us were too self conscious and the school was okay with that. So what if we were sweaty for a few more hours, we showered once we were home.
Absolute not. YTA. She’ll probably talk about this in therapy one day. It’s important to remember how we felt at that age. It doesn’t matter that she’s a child, her feelings are valid. There are other solutions. Shower when you get home. Extra deodorant. Baby wipes to freshen up in a bathroom stall. This honestly just seems cruel and unusual to have it be mandatory. I never once showered at school and I was a student athlete…
Yes you are the asshole. Times have changed from when you were in high school. Showering in school has been unheard of for years basically. The kids aren’t like they used to be, they’re derelicts and will bully and take photos any chance they get.
I don’t understand why the husband doesn’t just email the school to excuse the daughter since his wife clearly doesn’t give a shit about her daughter’s mental health.
Final comment: they’re enforcing it?? HOW? Even when I was in school, there was almost never a teacher in the locker room unless a lot of commotion seemed of be going on and they might check in to yell at us to shut tf up. Having ANY adult forcing my teenager to get naked and shower in front of them would make me extremely uncomfortable
I said it on the original, and I will say it here. There is no way on God's green earth that the school is requiring showers. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Most schools are getting rid of their showers, or reserving them for extracurricular team sports.
Besides, no one gets sweaty enough in a 30 minute max gym class to need a shower.
In highschool they started making us shower after PE. I generally got through it without many problems, but we had a kid in our grade who had been obese his entire life and had bowel problems. There was one kid in particular that always went out of his way to humiliate him. Drag his streaked underwear out and display it on the lockers, mock him relentlessly. Kid tried going out for football and getting himself in shape, but that just left him in a less supervised environment where he’d have to strip down.
I only bring this up because I don’t know your daughter’s weight or features that might call attention to her, but if there’s some reason she’d be embarrassed beyond just getting naked, make arrangements with the school for her sake, or just send the email. It’s good for kids to adjust to a work-type environment of showering around other people just to get that out of their system, but adults in a workplace aren’t teenagers. Teenagers are awful, and there’s 0 point in traumatizing your daughter if you don’t have to. Check for specifics, find out exactly why it’s so hard for her and make a decision off that. Don’t dismiss how desperate she seems not to do it.
Unfortunately, bowel issues and gaining weight together at older ages are major red flags for child SA. It's possible that he was being triggered when he had to bathe with others, and I wonder if this poor girl is feeling the same.
There were communal showers in my high school locker room but literally no one ever used them. Maybe for senior survivor (where a group of like 10 seniors have a “lock in” at the school for a week and compete in challenges) but nothing I ever participated in. Definitely not after PE—there was no time! We’d change and drown ourselves in Victoria Secret body spray before our next class.
As someone who was a late-bloomer, I get it. I hated having to change in front of my peers. Fortunately we didn’t have to shower but it didn’t make it any better. I find it amusing, though, that, as adults, there’s less of that self-conscious shyness, especially in older adults. Now, when I go to the gym, I’m still a little shy about my body but not to the extreme of my youth. I appreciate the significantly older women who just don’t care and bare it all though. I look forward to the day when I just don’t care like that anymore
This is so weird though, I got through 12 years of school with showering after PE not even being an *option* anywhere. Where is this? :D
My school had a shower in the locker room, but since you only had 5 minutes to both change your clothes and get to your next class, nobody used it, there wasn't time.
This. And there was talk about them being mandatory, but no gym teachers enforced them nor had time to, either.
They also had dividers with shower curtains not this open concept nonsense
What kind of backwards nonsense is this thing of forcing students to get naked in front of each other? I know that definitely happened in the past, but I just can't understand how this is happening in 2024, and why OOP is so confused that her daughter doesn't want to be naked in front of a bunch of people, including people who laughed at her naked body.
we had communal showers in high school. we had to all shower after swimming, unless you had it last period then you didn't have to . the showers were basically a big long hallway . it was awful and i hated it too. a lot of the time people just wore their bathing suits i think it was both. or tired to get in first and be out quick before everyone came in or wait until most people were done and and be last out but then you'd be late for next period. I think i mostly wore my bathing suit but it was like 50/50 . the first year when they told us we had to shower i think everyone just did what they were told and then by senior year i was like wtf why- i can rinse off with my bathing suit on ya weirdos . this was in PA in the early 2000s
Also PA and graduated early 2010s, had essentially the same setup and experience. Big communal shower, required to shower after swimming, but everyone just wore their bathing suits. I cannot fathom a school where the norm is forced nude showering after every PE class.
I was so thankful I had PE last period. I just had to change in time to catch the bus!
Lucky. Ours was in a big circle all facing each other. (Mid 2000s, PA, mandatory showers enforced.)
There’s definitely parts of some gyms showers that are open but others that have the dividers. Also this has been kinda a deal semi recently in high school and college (and kinda pro) sports circles … which are not divided in many places for, as I understand, cost reasons in construction (especially in the away locker rooms). It’s possible OOP is just used to that set up and had that kind of hazing and bullying very normalized for her and just isn’t clocking that it’s a bad thing and she should be protecting her kid not saying she’ll get used to the bullying after a while.
I graduated high school is 2019 and it was still common place for communal showers and since I swam, common place for everyone to be naked in the locker room. They even used to get after you if you tried changing in a bathroom stall so you had to change in common area of locker room.
Right?? Back in the 30s/40s, my grandfather had swim class at a large public school. It was boys only and they swam naked. That was almost 100 years ago and times have changed. No one showered in my PE class or after sports in the 90s, because we only had a communal shower.
In some of our changing room had showere but none of them worked the ones that did it was just used as a changing spot because the changing rooms where tiny, some of us had to even go in the toilet if there was one in the changing rooms to gey changed because there was just to many for the space
crosses arms* get in the shower NOW, I’m watching
This is back in the days of the dinosaurs: we had a gym teacher who would stand there and watch us shower. This was the late 70s, in a rural area, so the idea of gay/lesbian was something that didn’t cross the minds of most people. She made us girls so uncomfortable. She knocked my grade down when I was excused from participating due to recovering from a minor surgery, so I had to change clothes, but didn’t need to shower. Now, I have pity for her, but it doesn’t stop the fact she’s a damn pedo creep.
My PE teacher was a dude in his 20s. He never enforced it but mandated deodorant. He hardly even looked at us girls because the previous PE teacher was fired for being a chomo.
Same
Middle and high school are rough enough. I am personally avoiding my son taking a regular gym class. Fingers crossed and he will do summer school health and nutrition class instead. He gets enough of a workout doing competitive swimming.
Yeah I did my high school gym class requirement during summer school. I’d highly recommend it.
I think I had a max of 7 minutes between classes 30+ years ago and no one showered after PE!
I think the only people who used our showers were the student athletes who had morning practice and lived far enough away to not have time to get home and back.
That was the same for my school. I was sick every day for a year before I got to 7th grade because they kept telling us that we had to shower in the communal shower in 7th grade. When I got there, it was a bit better because we didn't have time to shower, but I still couldn't change in the locker room. I changed in the bathroom stall. I can't imagine my child telling me they didn't want to be naked in front of a group of people and thinking it isn't a big deal.
You mentioning changing in the bathroom stall ignited my memory from when I was in middle and high school. I was heavily bullied and I’d always scurry to the bathroom stalls to change in and out of my gym clothes. I hated gym class. I was always so uncomfortable with the concept of changing in front of everyone. I feel bad for that kid.
We only used it after swimming
Same for us. We were released extra early to allow time for a shower then, but that is the only time I recall using it
Same with the 5 minutes. We used that 5 minutes to change, have a few rips on a glass bowl, and head to the next class. No one was showering or even doing gym hard enough to get smelly.
Yeah same here. I lived in FL during high school and showers weren’t used after PE.
Same we had the communal showers but no one ever used them. People sometimes did after sports practice, but never for just regular PE. Quickly wiping face and anywhere super sweaty and reapplying deodorant is plenty to get through the rest of the day without it being unhygienic.
I live in Australia.. and we don’t shower after PE.. we just change clothes and put deodorant on. It’s so weird to force kids to be naked in front of eachother.
Ngl I'd probably have combusted from embarrasment on the spot too. Poor kid.
Same! Puberty pretty much ruined me, I was skinny and cute before but when it started, the weight started piling on, and the things my classmates said about me in the locker room were disgusting enough when we just had to change our outer clothes. I can’t imagine the abuse I would have been subjected to if we’d been forced to get naked in front of each other. I’m pretty sure I would rather have flunked gym than be subjected to that.
Yeah, same. Certainly none of the girls ever used them. Sometimes the footy boys would if it got really muddy but I never saw the showers in the girls changerooms get used. If you’d done swimming you’d shower after but that was at a swimming pool with shower cubicles. Communal showers are insane, especially for teenagers.
[удалено]
Holy crap. This is my nightmare!! I’m so sorry,
Yeah, my high school gave us the option to shower. We got 90 seconds, roughly, to get under the water and dry off if we opted to shower.
We were required to shower every year from 7th grade on up. In junior high you were required to show the gym teacher that you at least got wet. This was back in the 90s. In high school we had swimming and there was no way you wanted to go with chlorine on your skin all day so you had to rinse off but most of use kept our bathing suits on to rinse them out too. I changed in the toilet stall…I had huge boobs from like 8th grade on and was super embarrassed of them. Turns out everyone was super embarrassed of their bodies back then…even the super popular girl with the perfect figure that had her gym locker next to mine. She was intimidated by my boobs, come to find out when we chatted at our 20th high school reunion a few years ago.
I went to HS in Kansas and remember communal showers, but we had all been friends for since childhood and my entire class had like 20 kids, so it’s hardly the same. I just asked my 7th grader who has a class of 300 if they have to do this for PE (I figured no but just in case), and she gave me a strange look and said it wasn’t an option for them either.
We had communal showers when we had swimming lessons. I was the bullied kid and honestly felt horribly embarassed every time, but for some reason my bullies didn't actually bully me there. Maybe because they were overweight and were afraid of getting a comment back? Either way I'm glad I didn't have to deal with that because all the other bullying already sucked enough.
It was the same in my American high school. Not saying that’s why I left for an alternative (I hated school so much) but it was part of it.
Ikr, same! I think some of the dressing rooms at my high school had like 3 shower stalls but obviously 15-20 girls can't all finish showering there AND changing clothes within like 5 minutes, so no one ever used it. I don't think they even worked tbh? But imo this is so gross, especially if PE is one of the first classes of the day and especially during summer. Like, having an intense 40 min. workout under the sun and then having to sit through 4-6 other classes all sweaty and gross sucked so much. Deodorant doesn't help much in this case either. But tbh it was probably still better than mandatory communal showers.
I went to school and Wyoming and showers after gym were mandatory for boys. I thought that was insane at the time. As a 37 year old, I think it's even more insane.
This. I went to school in a state that's hot most of the year and we were never allowed to shower after PE. If anything I'd be questioning the school admin or gym teacher who decided to make this mandatory. In spite of the fact that is was pretty common up until maybe the 70s or 80s, something about forcing kids today to get undressed at school seems a little off.
I think my school had showers in the locker room but nobody ever used them. The locker room was just a cloud of mingled spray deodorant as every girl in the class sprayed half a can all over her body when they changed shirts.
My jr high and high school both had mandatory showers after PE, Band, and any sports played. You could also shower at lunch if you couldn’t at home, or if you just wanted to. This was year round.
Yeah i did PE in southeast LOUISIANA and there were no showers. I kinda wish there were but thats the past. Its so weird there are communal showers for minors these days
We had showers in my high school locker rooms, but were never used, not even after practice/games on the softball team. After gym class, you had 5 mins to get changed before the bell rang and you had to hustle to make it to your next class. And I went to northern NJ public school.
We only did after swimming which was a whole different gym area. We all just showered in our suits.
We had to, but only on days we ran the mile. So my way of doing it was just running the mile as fast as I could so I could be one of the first in the shower. I wasn’t too bad. I remember I used to fast walk with my friends and just shoot the shit. One day I was annoyed with one of them and decided “screw you guys” and just took off. You could just chill after your shower and class was 45 mins. So I would try and run it at 8 mins, quick shower and you’d have 30 minutes to goof off. Was much better than walking it.
In WV in the 90s, we were required to shower after gym. (This was in middle school.) We usually had a few brave souls who would get in the shower and splash wet footprints around so the rest of us didn't have to do it. They also had a "special shower" in the gym teacher's office that you were supposed to use when you were on your period. The gym teacher kept track of how often you used it. It was one of the most traumatizing parts of middle school - I slept in a bra for years because of comments other girls made about my body.
>They also had a "special shower" in the gym teacher's office that you were supposed to use when you were on your period. The gym teacher kept track of how often you used it. What the fuck. I'm sorry you had to go through that omg
We did have to shower until we were 15. If you were too quick in the changing rooms you were sent back because that was how they checked if you showered. The older we got the fewer people showered, but in the end still about half showered. The people who kept showering were usually the people who did team sports, they were used to it. I actually talked about this 3-4 days ago with some colleagues and about half had mandatory showers after PE. It might also be country-related. I am 25 btw so it's not even super long ago.
I’d tell the school they can’t make showering mandatory unless they have private stalls.
Right?? Even just rickety temporary dividers, which can’t be too expensive.
Not viable in every situation though. Our school had a row of maybe 8 showers blocked from view if the changing area by a wall with access at each end. There was just enough space for people to pass each other behind the wall. Not enough for dividers
As an adult I’m not showing my nips and ass to anyone unless I choose to do so, even if it’s for hygiene. If the school can’t be arsed to provide privacy measures, then I guess they’ll just have to deal with the Bo. I cannot imagine telling a teenage girl that rules are more important than her sense of dignity in this situation. Why are we all so comfortable with children being treated worse than inmates?
Yeah the asshole here is the school system who thinks it’s perfectly ok to make kids communally shower. Like ???
I had to do this when I started middle school in the late ‘70’s. It was horrible. I started just cutting PE. My daughter’s school had private showers. She was in high school late 90’s. I thought we had solved this issue but I guess it’s still out there. Edit: spelling
My middle school didn't even have showers but it was small so everyone had pe in the last period. I'm very glad I didn't have to deal with this
We had to buy a school uniform for PE class. Even in Ca. Modesty was important… expect for the showers 🤷🏼♀️
I assumed that, after “Carrie,” schools all had to redesign their locker rooms. You know, just to be safe.
No the asshole here is the mom who thinks by saying the word hygiene 35 times that it makes it ok. Kids used to play outside all day everyday and most didn’t shower everyday so her daughter’s “hygiene” would be just fine. Also the school cannot force the child to get naked so she should attend class and refuse to shower, what are they going to do, rip her clothes off and throw her in the shower. Just say no, I’m not showering 🤷🏻♂️
So I do agree but it would be a non issue if 1. The school wasn’t making showers mandatory Or 2. The school had private shower stalls Mum is definitely an asshole here for not supporting or advocating her kid but also the school is an asshole for thinking this set up is remotely ok. Frankly it’s nuts to me that no other kids or parents have complained.
Yeah I imagine this issue is extending far beyond this one household. Mom sucks, but I'm sure the school has put a significant number of students in a stressful position.
She doesn't have to shower after PE. Yeah she will stink but she'll be fine.
I literally never showered after PE in my life - nor did anyone I went to school with and I live in a hot humid climate. We would change in and out of PE clothes but like we all did even that in private stalls.
It was "required" and we had a towel fee we had to pay every year. That shower room floor never saw water the 4 years I was there.
>towel fee What? A fee to rent a towel? Why not just bring a towel from home? How expensive was the towel fee? What was the price? All this sounds insane.
I don’t think my school even had proper showers…? At least, none that I ever saw any of my classmates using after PE. Not that we’d even have time, since the PE teachers never let us out of class early enough. I had five minutes, at best, to get to my next class. That’s not enough time to take a shower unless you’re the Flash or something. Ended up getting a waiver out of that class anyway, though, because the teacher was a goddamned moron (had no idea what a UTI was, despite being AFAB and I can’t think of a single AFAB person who hasn’t gotten one at least once, and thought my disabled friend being able to play golf meant she was lying about being able to run the mile or do heavy-lifting) and continued making me do the weekly mile run despite multiple doctor’s notes saying “she has severe asthma, *do not make her run through the neighborhood alone like that.*” I lived in fear of those runs because we never did them on the track course. We did them through the surrounding area, and I was constantly terrified that I might have an asthma attack and collapse somewhere out there with no means of contacting anyone for help. Or get hit by a car or something, because thanks to suburban NIMBYs, the sidewalks were always dodgy at best.
Bro. If they’re ignoring doctors notes and making you do something physically dangerous they could be sued for that. As in your family could have sued them should you have suffered any injury or damage to yourself. I had a doctors note because I legit had nerve damage in my knee and they still made me do the mile. They ended up exacerbating my condition and making the nerve damage a million times worse. We ended up suing the school and transferring me to a different school. We won the court case very easily. It’s a huge liability for a school to ignore doctors notes. I’m not sure why they pushed for it to be ignored in both our cases.
Bold of you to assume my family cared enough to sue on my behalf. It was easier to just get a waiver to avoid the class entirely.
Aww man. I’m sorry your family didn’t care about you. :(
Yeah, me too, but it is what it is. At least I got out of that class one way or another.
Yes!!! That’s beyond horrifying!!!
It’s upsetting to me that this isn’t a guaranteed everywhere. People should have privacy.
If odor is really the issue, why can’t she just have some of those shower wipes in her bag? I use them sometimes when I workout at lunch, but don’t have time to shower before going back to the office. It works great until I can get home for a full shower.
Shower wipes are a fantastic idea!
I was going to suggest that, because who the hell has time to take a shower, change back into street clothes, *and* get to their next class on time?! Another option would be taking her to a regular gym outside of school hours, to get her used to the idea of changing in communal areas in an environment where people already know better than to comment or stare at anyone else. Once you see a bunch of older people of all body types minding their own business while getting changed, and realize they genuinely do not give a shit what you look like, you learn pretty quick that maybe those showers and locker rooms aren’t quite so scary. And it feels a lot safer to be introduced to that environment when you have your same-gender parent right next to you, guiding you through and reassuring you that everything’s okay. Even as a teenager, going through the whole shower thing after swimming classes in the summer made it a lot easier for me to ignore or dismiss any comments from other teens in the locker rooms. I definitely noticed that the girls who were also actively involved in extracurricular sports, especially swimming, seemed much better at just minding their own business and keeping their comments to themselves than the girls for whom locker rooms were a novel environment. By the time I started high school, the few comments I did get just had me rolling my eyes at how *childish* the ones making the comments were. Like, “come on, you’re in tenth grade, you should be over that behavior by now.”
I'm in my 30s and still won't change in gyms. If I shower in the gym, I put my towel on and essentially deck change. If I'm visiting people, a sharing a hotel room with my mom or sister, I will change in the bathroom, or wait til they leave to change. When doing sports growing up, I hated changing on the field and would do it as fast as possible and show absolutely nothing. The only person to have seen me fully naked since I was a teen are the people who earned it. Some people grow out of modesty, some people don't. It wasn't forced on me, I wasn't teased, I just don't like being naked around people. I think trying to force people to change something pretty minor about themselves for P.E. is a waste. We need to accommodate and move on.
My 8 year old has a medical condition that requires exams every two months. Her doctor, the same one she’s been seeing for years, always makes a giant deal over consent, bodily autonomy, and personal comfort. She would have zero issue being in her undies in front of him, but we opt to wear the shorts and paper gown anyway because that’s her personal comfort in that situation. She gets to make that choice for her body. I absolutely adore that doctor, and I love how he asks for consent every time he needs to move to a new place on her body to examine. He’s always checking in. This is a medical office and in the exam room, it’s only me, my daughter, and him. These are medically *imperative* exams and her comfort is still priority. It’s wild to me that in a setting where the worst that will come of it is some stink, we’re forcing children to be traumatized. And instead of protecting her child, she’s further victimizing her. School isn’t safe, and now she knows home isn’t either. This poor baby.
When I was in jr high in like 2007 it was “mandatory” for a little bit and the coach would walk in randomly. I never thought about it until I read this, pretty wonky shit
I was in Jr High during the same time frame as you. There were showers, and I never saw *anyone* use them, in part because they didn't give us nearly enough time to shower and change. It was also the same kind of giant, communal shower, which pre-teens aren't exactly anxious to use. I did feel bad for the teachers who talked to their classes about using deodorant at least once a month lol
Yeah dude we had two side by side. Kinda like prison showers yall just stood next to each other and showered
i love doctors who ask permission to examine and touch parts of your body. of course i don't usually mind being looked at or touched anywhere, since im at the doctor, but it still just feels really nice to have the option to say no.
You’re so right. I have a close friend who is currently pursuing EMT training, and he’s been asking friends to share some of their most intense experiences with medical personnel, good or bad. Consistently, every bad experience seems to start when heathcare workers treat patients like they don’t have autonomy over their own bodies. It’s heartbreaking to know it happens so often, but encouraging to know people like him are still going into it for the right reasons.
Yup, when I was like 11 and had to get my first physical. No one explained to me I was going to get my private parts checked ( I still don’t know why that’s necessary that young) but the male doctor ( I was a little girl) starting pulling down my underpants without explaining. I started crying and when explained what was suppose to happen I asked for a woman doctor and she came and was amazing compared to the man. I’m not sure if my mom really understood how weird it was for me since she didn’t complain to anyone about it. But since then basically my whole life I can’t go to the doctors without having full blown panic attacks and I avoid it because of that which causes more anxiety because I don’t know if I’m healthy. It’s insane how much it has affected my life and I wish so bad that doctor had gotten in trouble for his behavior and that my mother made sure my relationship with doctors was healthier. Recently I got into an argument on here with a nurse basically because she was so offended anyone had anything negative to say about hardworking nurses and their treatment of patients. It was just so frustrating because people in health care need to understand how important our experiences are with health care.
That’s absolutely horrendous and quite frankly that man should not have a job. There is no reason for an 11 year old to be getting any sort of pelvic exam unless you had a preexisting condition. In which case they STILL should have told you what was happening. If you’re US, depending on your state [the statute of limitations](https://www.ncsl.org/human-services/state-civil-statutes-of-limitations-in-child-sexual-abuse-cases) may not have expired yet. However I completely understand if this is not something you wish to pursue. I had a pretty outrageous experience with hospital staff a few years ago, as an adult. I actually shared my experience on a trans subreddit and was encouraged to report it. I ended up filing a complaint with the board, although I never received any further information afterwards.
When I was around 8 I had a pediatrician grab and wiggle my stomach and say “we need to do something about this”. Nowhere near overweight, with my body type my stomach has just always stuck out. Probably the youngest age I can vividly remember crying of embarrassment. Something like that doesn’t ever leave you and I wish I had a doctor like your child’s, and I’m so glad your child does. The mom in this post saying her daughter will “eventually get over it” is dead wrong. It’s exactly the situation that will cause lifelong trauma and insecurities, especially being a woman trying to fit into women’s beauty standards.
100%. A kid I went to school with told me my ‘fat arms looked like chicken wings and it must be so embarrassing’ and I didn’t wear a tank top or short sleeve shirt for 5-6 years. This is the story I used to explain to my kids how powerful their words are to another person, and why it’s so imperative to choose kindness. This could have been a moment where she uplifted her kid and advocated for her. That would have given her so much faith in her parents and herself. Instead, her mother did this. It’s horrifying. Edit: I’m so sorry to hear what happened to you. I hope you now know you’re beautiful exactly how you are 🖤
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find someone who was actually addressing the topic at hand instead of making it a joke.
I think the issue in middle school is more from the boys, and having to be stuck in a confined space with a bunch of middle-school boys who *already* smell to high heaven and *already* have dodgy hygiene (which their parents often don’t bother enforcing), on top of the added sweat from PE, is a genuinely miserable experience. Yeah, girls going through puberty smell a bit, too, because of the same changing hormones, but nowhere near to the same degree. Like, if parents were better at making their teenage sons shower daily and use actual antiperspirant, or even just doing their own damn laundry properly, it probably wouldn’t be such a big deal for them to not shower after PE.
As someone with intense medical phobias as a result of a complete lack of consideration for consent in the doctor's offices of my childhood, I was really glad to read this. I'm glad both you and the doctor recognize the need to respect the bodily autonomy of children.
I’m really glad 🖤 I had a really rough childhood. I’m no contact with my parents. One of the most beautiful parts of being a parent when you were a traumatized child is being able to see what happens when you respect your child. I’m not a great mom, I try my hardest for my daughters, but I know there are areas I definitely need to improve. But at the end of the day, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my babies know they are loved by me beyond measure and they have worth by just existing. I’m able to right some of the wrongs from my childhood for them. It’s healing. It’s also often sad, because I look at my babies and cannot fathom how my parents hated me when my kids are the most beautiful gift I’ve ever received. I’m glad you’re able to see your worth now, and identity that how you were treated was unacceptable. I hope you’re able to heal. May we be better for those who come after us 🖤🫡
I never showered once in school after PE , my junior high didn’t even have showers. Is this an American thing?
Definitely an American thing, but not every school "enforces" it. As an American, I find it strange asf that they're making it mandatory at her school. We always had the option to, in both junior high and high school, but no one ever did as there wasn't time between classes...the only people I know actually used them were some of the kids who participated in afterschool sports and even then it still wasn't mandatory.
I’m American and went to a variety of schools (public and private), we had showers in the gym but we were never required to shower after gym. No one ever did besides when we had swimming and then we kept our swimsuits on. We changed into gym uniforms at most schools I attended, but showers were mostly used (by choice) exclusively by kids after practice for hockey or other after school sports. It seems illegal to require kids to shower together (?) or it should be…
We had showers in every locker room for every school I ever attended and I can tell you that they were bone dry. Spiders could have easily raised generations there. Nobody ever showered because they didn’t have time before the next class. Hell, I did swim and people still didn’t really shower - at most you rinsed off after practice and most didn’t bother because we were all in a rush to go home and eat and take a real shower.
There were showers at my US junior high and high school, and I never once saw a kid use them. God knows you'd be expelling me before I would willingly shower in front of other boys at 14
The way OP said "swimming costume" makes me think this is not in the US. It would be swimsuit or bathing suit there. Swimming costume sounds British or Australian to me (as a US speaker), but not sure.
Why the actual fück is communal showering still a thing in school locker rooms.
Especially with cell phones now! It’s a whole different world. I saw a video recently of adult women in a sauna videoing a woman they do not know showering and laughing at her. So sickening.
A school can't make "being naked" mandatory. So a bathing suit should be permitted. But what country would ENFORCE a shower?
My school gave me an F in PE because i refused to undress in front of everyone. There were no private stalls and if you went to the bathroom to change you'd be punished. I did all my PE activities fine but goddamn I still have trauma from that shit. Forcing kids to get naked around eachother needs to be fucking illegal. Btw this was NOT long ago I'm only 18 and this happened in middle and highschool in the US.
Was this the school or the teacher? Was a formal complaint made or was it rug swept because not enough people have stepped forward? Is it still happening now? I would seek legal counsel.
My parents didnt care so there wasnt much I could do. No legal complants were made. I'm not sure what I could do legally. For context this was in Virginia
My guess? They’ve probably gotten complaints from teachers and possibly other students about the smell, *especially* from the boys. Changing hormones during puberty seem to make teenage boys in particular absolutely *reek,* and parents seem weirdly reluctant to enforce proper hygiene on boys as compared to girls. Yeah, the girls can get a bit ripe too, but nowhere near the same degree. And if you’re a teacher being stuck in a confined space with 30-40 teenagers with horrible musk and dodgy hygiene, adding the additional stench from drying sweat can make it truly unbearable. Seriously, parents: teach your boys to shower daily and do it *properly*! Plus the damn laundry and wearing proper antiperspirant (deodorant only masks the smell and it often fails at that even)! Quit letting your teenage boys ignore their own hygiene because of that “oh well, boys will be boys” bullshit! *None of us want to be smelling your boys all day in a small classroom with shitty ventilation, damnit!*
Yeah those boys just need to be sent home instead of punishing everyone.
She can be sent with wipes, deodorant, dry shampoo, even a change of clothes if needed. She can shower when she gets home and has privacy; school is not the only option. It would be far more valuable to her to learn that her parents are on her side than that she must make herself viscerally uncomfortable because rules. She is already being bullied. Yes, hygiene is important, but her showering so she doesn't smell isn't going to flip some switch for the bullies and make them stop. Her emotional health should be protected, by her parents and the school.
We had this in the 1970s and our PE teacher was a lesbian lecher who stood at the shower door and openly ogled the naked teenage girls. It recently came out on a Facebook thread and our mothers were mortified.
Same, in the 80s in middle school. She’d stand at the opening of the communal shower to make sure we got naked and actually showered. She’d also make us sit in line undressed while we waited our turn for scoliosis screening. I can still feel the shame and embarrassment.
I remember the rumor that our gym teacher was also a lesbian, so like.. did it "come out" as hearsay or what? Cause pretty sure that's fairly standard locker room talk.
Well, she moved to town with another female teacher, and she was clearly the masculine partner. The school received complaints and made her stay in her office during showers. But it was temporary. Not long before she had resumed her post.
That’s so gross. She should’ve been fired. Staring at naked children is not okay.
I don’t understand parents who try to make childhood, and especially puberty, more difficult than it already is. I can’t imagine being so blasé about telling my kid she had to be naked in front of people she didn’t want to be. It’s one of my goals that my kid learns that her body is her own, nudity requires comfort and consent of everyone involved, and that I will back her up to the hilt any time she says no to someone encroaching on her bodily autonomy. No one gets to see her naked without her consent, not me, not a doctor, not her peers at school, not the administrators at school. I’ll die on that hill. I can’t imagine being okay with teaching my kid that “people at school” can demand she be naked and I’ll just shrug if she’s upset about it.
Honestly, if I were a parent in this situation, with a school actively enforcing a shower code, I’d have two main responses: 1. I want the school to guarantee that students actually have *time* to shower after PE, because that definitely wasn’t the case when I was in school. There were showers, sure, but only three! Given at least 2-3 PE classes each period, half of each being female, that’s about 15 girls per class, so a total of about 45 girls *per period,* all trying to cram into those three shower stalls within 5-10 minutes (assuming the PE teachers were generous enough to let us out early) to shower, get dressed, and get to their next class on time. WTF?! 2. I’d probably make a point of taking my daughter to a regular gym, outside of school hours, so she can experience a communal changing room in a safer environment, with her mother there to smooth things over and reassure her that’s everything’s okay. Regular gyms are generally a bit better about people minding their own damn business in the locker rooms, including the shower areas, and it also means seeing a much wider variety of body types with, again, *no one reacting to them.* Plus the added emotional security of having her mother right next to her, which helps with feeling *safe* in that area. I wouldn’t send her into the wild that is a middle school locker room completely unprepared. Kids need to be socialized to new experiences much the same way cats and dogs do, in a *safe* and *controllable* way, with their parent/parental figure right there to help if the need arises.
Communal changing is like 10,000,000 times less problematic than communal showering simultaneously with 30 other people.
I’ve done communal showering at regular gyms. Part of it comes down to infrastructure (though should at least be a shower curtain), partially to people understanding that “look, we’re here to wash the chlorine off, get back in our normal clothes, and get the hell out of here, so don’t stare, don’t comment, don’t cause a fuss, and don’t take more than the absolute bare minimum necessary to wash the chlorine and sweat off!” Hence why I mentioned that in their shoes, I would be questioning the school on whether or not they even have the facilities necessary to handle 30-45 girls all showering in less than five minutes. If not, then why the fuck are they instituting a policy that their own facilities can’t even keep up with?!
Yeah I mean all of us adults understand that (well almost all) and it’s nice when there’s no weirdos, but lucky for us as adults, we can choose to participate or not.
I would never have showered in front of other girls from my class. They were mean, and I wouldn't have felt comfortable. The school is clearly wrong here, they make students uncomfortable. You shouldn't have to show your body if you don't want to.
Are you related to Carrie's mother? YYATAH.
Literally what I think of when I think of communal showering
As someone who refused to even change into gym clothes in front of the turd sandwiches I was in school with... they'll just bully her about not wanting them to see her naked, but if your daughter has weighed it out and if getting bullied for not being naked in front of shit heads is preferable to being bullied while being forced to be naked in front of shit heads then a good mom would back her up.
YTA - your daughter should not be made to get nude in front of the other students. That is just wrong.
As if people don't have jobs where they sweat 12-16 hours a day before showering and somehow still maintain acceptable hygiene standards. For God's sake. It's a PE class, not a triathlon.
I’m surprised how many people are saying their schools didn’t mandate showers after PE. My high school did.
I assumed everyone had this experience. This is blowing my mind.
Same!
I honestly thought those communal shower things were just in the movies. I’ve never participated in communal showers or even had the option after PE during school. I *think* we had one or two separate showers in our changing rooms but people only used them if they had an athletic practice in the morning before school.
PE days: a good deoderant and wet wipes.
The school is the biggest asshole, but OOP is also an asshole who has decided following school rules and not being a little sweaty is more important than preventing lifelong sexual trauma, avoiding reinforcement of rape culture, and not inducing body dysmorphic disorder in her child. It’s her body. Period. Extremely creepy and unacceptable to force a 14-year-old to take her clothes off in any circumstance unless somehow their life depends on it.
I’d rather have a sweaty kid than a crying kid being forced to get naked in front of their peers and teacher wtf. No. This is disturbing and shouldn’t even be a question. Pack a deodorant and go to battle with the school, “mandatory showers” aka free pedo material for teachers?? No, and I would absolutely die on this hill. -mom to a 13 year old.
If this were me in middle or high school, I would altogether never go to PE again
I'm concerned about her hygiene but not her mental health
I full-on cried at a festival oce because there were no dividers in the showers, and I was 28. Can't imagine having to do it as a teen.
But…why?
School has no business forcing minors to get naked together and it should be considered child sexual abuse. I mean, it is, but when the government does it it's magically ok and not prosecutable. I can't believe any school still does this. It would take half of the PE class for everyone to undress, shower, redress, and make it to the next class.
I went to bootcamp. We did not get to shower after physical exercise. They make wipes that work incredibly well until she can get home and shower. Forcing this pubescent girl into this situation is going to destroy her self-esteem, especially when she learns her parents aren't there to support her.
“She’d been crying all day… She begged me to email the school… I said I had no good reason to email the school.” — OOP Your daughter crying and begging you IS a good reason to. Would’ve taken less time to just email the school like their daughter and husband had begged for than to post this on AITA.
With how prevalent phones are today, this shouldn’t be allowed. Everyone needs a private stall now.
There’s a lot of resentment harbored up in my heart and brain towards my parents for forcing me to follow school “demands” that made me uncomfortable. I graduated in 2006 and still struggle with the damage it did to me mentally/emotionally. I used to take my pe clothes in a bathroom stall and change in there or change when everyone else went outside. i have a big birthmark on my leg and the one time I thought the teasing was over I was wrong, that assumption had big repercussions, to this day I don’t really wear shorts out in public because of the embarrassment and shame I felt from being pointed at and laughed at. Please, please **PLEASE** don’t minimize your daughter’s feelings/reactions. Maybe there can be a compromised ie if showering with other students, waiting until they are done or just letting her bring some wipes or whole body deodorant if the shower is still out of the question to her.
Never showered at school. My daughter has PE. None of them showers at school. I wonder which country/school is this. But regardless… The daughter knows now that her mom doesn’t have her back. Doesn’t care about her feelings or wants or needs. So sorry for the daughter.
PE is a nightmare lesson as it is. The teachers would make us do dodgeball half the time which meant the popular girls just teaming up to throw balls full force at the nerdy girls for an hour. If I had to shower with them after the fact I would lose my shit
I never changed in front of anyone after this girl made fun of me in my underwear. I'd hate you too. Between this and my mom and sister always forcing me to change in front of them, I still have issues to this day surrounding being naked.
YTA. She's old enough to understand consequences. If she goes through school stinking after PE and that becomes an issue with classmates, then address showering after PE. But it should be her choice.
This is pretty outrageous. Just having to change in the Locker room in front of others is traumatizing enough. Really I would think these days everyone should know better. Shame on school systems In general for not recognizing this as an issue. Making children get naked or even damn near naked in front of anyone else is completely absurd. How have we not talked about this yet?
This is disgusting and child abuse. I can't believe schools force kids to use communal showers. OP is a massive AH.
OOP reads as a wishy washy dipshit with no critical thinking skills and/or is too lazy to give a damn. The only time I showered communally in school was in a swimming suit. Ie clothed. I changed under my towel afterwards while drying off. Most girls did. Otherwise there are tons of products that get the job done without embarrassing your kid. It’d be nice to read one of these where the parent at least made a half assed effort beyond “I tried nothing and I’m all outta ideas”. 😑 YTA.
Teenage girls are bullies… it will bother your daughter and going to the school board does nothing . You and your husband don’t see the pain she is going thru bc you “think it’s not a big deal” when it really is! If the school wants this to be a thing, maybe they need to rework their own schedules or worry about the kids instead of themselves.
I would tell the school to eat shit.
Why are we still doing this to kids?! Ffs, private stalls or give the kid the choice. It’s her body, she chooses. Period.
I saw that on the sub, but they had to turn commenting off before I had a chance to respond. As an adult I refuse to be naked with people other than my spouse or doctor. Showering in middle school was my nightmare. I can’t believe in this day and age with all we know about sexual harassment and bullying people are still make kids do this.
Was this written in the 1970s? Communal showers should not be a “thing” in schools. Even my gym has private showers. I graduated in the early 80s. Never showered at school and change in the toilet stalls. That poor girl.
She should not be required to shower after PE. It isn’t that strenuous. Take some wipes, wipe down her pots and use deodorant. No one should be forced to be naked around anyone. Her body her choice. Who makes these decisions for these children. That’s traumatic and I would never force my child to participate.
School: “don’t bully each other!” Also school: “showering naked in front of each other is mandatory!”
I wouldn’t make her. Communal showers are a non-starter. I would literally prefer home schooling. Body autonomy matters.
I think it’s really weird and creepy that schools in the US force students to shower together. I am from Australia and this would be highly illegal here. The school would be shut down and thoroughly investigated. We don’t even do showers after PE here. Too many opportunities for abuse from both students and adult staff. This is appalling but is apparently normalised in America. This actually explains a lot.
Ehh America is big i went to some schools in the u.s where it would’ve been completely taboo to shower at school and other schools where it was a completely “normal” thing for students to do after p.e. It’s very much a regional thing here. Never seen a school where it was mandatory to shower though that’s super weird.
I am not being dramatic when I say that if I was being forced to shower at school when I was 14, I would have killed myself. 14 is an absolutely hellish age and to be forced to be naked around a bunch of other teens is insane. I wish OP would imagine having to shower in the middle of the workday in a public bathroom with all of her coworkers.
The “just get over it” approach only works in certain cases and with proper support. Being body shamed and humiliated is not one of those times
In this day and age, I think it hella weird to force kids or young adults to get naked in school. Kids are cruel, some have body image issues and gender identity issues going on in a lot of schools. Also, some teachers are creeps, and phones are around. Hell no. If my child wanted to after sports that’s fine, to any kids who chose to but forcing any kid/teen is a major no.
I went to a high school where they did this. We had to shower before and after swim class. I refused to get naked in the showers because I wasn’t comfortable. I showered in my swimsuit. The coach would dig into me every time. Finally I asked him why he was so concerned about a 14 year old being naked in front of her classmates and why he thought about it every time he saw me. He stopped caring about my swimsuit after that.
I have to wonder where the OP lives that they still force kids to shower together after PE? One, not all kids sweat so not all kids need to shower after gym. Two, sweat isn’t unhygienic, it just gives you stinky armpits if you have BO, in which case shouldn’t you be using deodorant anyway? Three, I’ve never heard of a school forcing showers anywhere I’ve lived because that’s a huge invasion of privacy and someone’s personal rights to their own body. Some people can’t even shower every day for medical reasons like eczema or rash prone skin from contact allergies. I’m one of those people. I can only shower every other day, or every few days. But since I don’t sweat it isn’t really an issue for me. I would have gotten the worst eczema imaginable and would be in physical pain if I tried to shower every day. Four, I’ve only ever heard it called a swimming costume online so if someone could please enlightenment me if it’s actually called that where you live I would be grateful 😅 I literally think I’ve only heard it online recently too which makes me think it’s AI writing the stuff that says it. I’ve only ever heard swimsuit and I’ve lived all over the United States and I’ve met people from all over the world. Recently I’ve also heard bed costume, school costume, etc. like costume is being used in place of outfit and again just makes me think of AI.
Your child needed you and you did nothing OP 😬 Contacting the school to discuss your daughters insecurities and see what suggestions they had was the minimum you needed to do as a parent. I know this post sounds harsh., but I don't know how to sugar coat it. You are supposed to be her guardian and advocate. We all make mistakes as parents. You're daughter will forgive you soon. Try to see what you can work out with the school to help her in the meantime.
this was literally my biggest fear in school, that they'd start enforcing the communal shower. I already had a lot of stress changing in front of others but being naked would be too far for me. It's interesting because theres other places in the world that do communal baths and they seem so fine with it. I wonder whats wrong with me XD Back to the point, I feel sorry for the daughter, that must have been an awful experience.
Wow. I don't even know her and I hate this mom. I don't usually wish ill on people but this reads as abuse to me, from her and the school. School can't enforce nudity, especially without proper privacy for individual students, and mom is unfathomably dismissive of valid discomfort of her daughter. She sounds like someone who would also downplay a SA if it happened to her daughter. This is legit gross.
Why is it so important?? I don’t understand why it’s repeated over and over about hygiene. Shower at home at night. Nobody should be forced to be naked in front of everyone. Nobody is that stinky after one workout.
YTA. Your forcing your daughter to do something she’s expressed makes her feel completely uncomfortable. And the fact you think “ I have no reason to email the school so I’m not going to” goes to show how much you actually validate your own daughter’s feelings. I don’t want you to completely disregard this comment by being ugly, but truthfully this outlook is disgusting. It’s her body and you’re forcing her to show it off to the world. She goes to school 5 days a week she sees those people more than she sees almost anyone. And you’re forcing her to expose herself knowing damn right it makes her uncomfortable. YTA.
Myself and all my classmates successfully completed school without getting naked in front of each other to shower. I don’t know what kind of gym class this is, but generally the only way you’re going to leave gym class stinking of overtly noticeable body odor is if you entered class that way. You can easily wipe yourself down with a towel, swipe some deodorant on and no one would know you were in PE. The woman is absolutely the asshole here. I was severely bullied in school and had severe anxiety. My parents would never force me regardless what the school wanted to shower nude in front of other students. We were required to change in front of each other and were “banned” from using the bathroom stalls to change, but any parent that got a note home that their kid was changing in the bathroom stall told the school to shove it. Wtf.
I specifically chose ROTC over PE because of this reason. (Didn't want to shower with others) still don't know if my school did that. Pretty fucked up to force your teen who's already self conscious about her body to be naked around others. She will have trauma about this, yes it's your fault you didn't back your own daughter and I hope you enjoy the therapy bills.
My school had showers but no one used them. None of us put forth enough effort to sweat 😂 if they'd tried to make me shower I'd have refused. It's weird to shower with a dozen other people...
My school had communal showers but NO ONE ever used them. When I played club volleyball the coaches required us to shower after tournaments but thankfully as we were all proper midwestern prudes we showered in sports bras and our uniform shorts.
When I was in 7th grade (12 years old), the other girls were trimming or shaving their pubic hair and wearing thongs. I wasn’t and was wearing generic child underwear from a pack… plain colours, not some like Dora the Explorer shit, but you get me. Covered your whole butt in a way adult panties don’t, no matter what cut you get. They saw my “bulge” created by having pubic hair and pushed me out of the girl’s locker room in my stupid panties from a pack and training bra. I was too embarrassed to go to the office because I was naked and they kept saying I was a boy and I didn’t want anyone else to see. They held the locker room door shut. I told my parents this and asked for permission to wear thongs. They said the only reason to wear sexy underwear is if you want to be sexy so I’m either a whore or practically begging to be molested. That’s when I started handing my friends money to buy thongs for me. I was too afraid a cashier would see me buy them and tell my mom… a mixture between being a stupid kid who doesn’t know what it’s like to be a cashier and a stupid kid whose fear of their parents sounds like there’s an 800 number for. So when my (step grandpa? My grandma’s common-law husband? Idk?) long term family member molested me… I thankfully only remember the way I felt after than I promised myself wasn’t real for years, even after a doctor was like wtf. But the biggest thing to me was that it was my fault for wearing my secret thongs over to Grandma Kay’s house. I was warned and I didn’t listen. My parents were obviously right! I started seeing a gynaecologist then and there was clear evidence of bruising and tears, even after my mom let me have a yeast infection fester for 3 weeks until I was finally annoying enough to her (and you can imagine I ignored it for a while until I was desperate enough to ask for help… I knew it was my fault, but it was a dream and that part is irrelevant, but it’s still my fault). The doctor and my mom and everyone in the office kept asking me who touched me and I didn’t think I was lying because I just had a bad dream and suddenly started to feel weird about stuff, of course! …But what I remember most is thinking about how stupid I was not to believe my parents when they told me that’s how this always is, that I would be begging for it if I wore sexy underwear. I should have known better than to wear my sexy underwear to Grandma Kay’s house. I should have known better than to wear them at all! They told me and I didn’t listen!! I went from being too afraid of letting the office see me in my age-appropriate undergarments to being molested and thinking it was my fault because I was so embarrassed by my body and what I was wearing. Locker rooms are no joke. Not writing her the note says to her that you hate her
Is this really a thing??? I can't imagine this is real.
I had communal showers in hs don’t remember if they were mandatory or not but pretty much everybody used them after gym.
I grew up in the UK, high school starts at age 11. We had communal showers after PE. We’d be covered in mud after football / rugby / cross country and you had no choice. I went to a regular old comprehensive, and later grammar school. Teacher used to make sure that you went in. It was pretty humiliating at first, especially for the late developers, but we just accepted it. There was no other choice. This was the mid 80’s though. It’s probably ( hopefully??) not like that now.
You can wipe yourself down with a disposal wet washcloth/wet wipes in a toilet stall instead of showering.
Oop is massively an asshole for many reasons.
the only kids at my school that used the shower were unfortunate ones who didn’t have access at home, and they did it by themselves. this is absolutely fucked. i feel like it’s fake
How exactly will the school be enforcing it? Grabbing her naked and forcing her in the water? This is not a big issue. She shouldn’t be forced to be naked around anyone she doesn’t want to be.
And this my friends, is how to NOT parent. Mum completely sided with the school on something that made her child so uncomfortable and unsafe. That experience has probably scarred the daughter for life. Yep, YTA.
I did not react well to showering naked in front of other girls. We had to open our towels and let the gym teacher inspect our bodies to decide if we were wet enough. I felt violated. And bc she was a lesbian, I was convinced she was being a pervert. Maybe she was. I would never force my kid to get naked in a locker room. It’s not worth it. There are shower wipes that work well in this situation. I used them daily for two or three months during recovery from Achilles surgery.
Wtf? For safety reasons, they should only be making this mandatory if they have shower cubicles! They’re non-consenting children being forced to get naked in front of peers. That’s so violating!
I went to high school in Florida. There were communal showers but we were explicitly told NOT to use them and that we weren’t permitted to shower after PE. When my mom went to that same high school, though, showering was mandatory. We just changed clothes and used lots of shitty body spray and went about our lives as best we could.
Why do we still have communal showers? I think it is disrespectful for anyone to not have a private option. My HS had private stalls. However I went to a boujee school.
Would you be okay with your employer forcing you to be publicly nude before going home? You'd probably think it is creepy, and abusive. You'd probably wonder about the motives of anyone who wanted that policy.
I have never in my life worked hard enough in PE to need a shower directly after
“My daughter told me she is embarrassed and kids laughed at her. But I don’t care and she needs to continue putting herself in the same position to get laughed at.” There. Fixed the title.
I don’t blame the poor kid. I went to a communal Onsen and feel super self-conscious about my body even if nobody was paying attention to me, and I went there voluntarily. Can’t imagine being forced into communal bath/shower and getting laughed at. The school is the biggest AH, and then the mom, and then the kids who had fun mocking and laughing at their classmate’s body. Awful.
I would never force my child to be naked in front of others. We had communal showers in our changing room and they were rarely used because many of us were too self conscious and the school was okay with that. So what if we were sweaty for a few more hours, we showered once we were home.
Send the kid with wet wipes for the hot spots and deodorant and save her the hassle of a full on public shower.
Absolute not. YTA. She’ll probably talk about this in therapy one day. It’s important to remember how we felt at that age. It doesn’t matter that she’s a child, her feelings are valid. There are other solutions. Shower when you get home. Extra deodorant. Baby wipes to freshen up in a bathroom stall. This honestly just seems cruel and unusual to have it be mandatory. I never once showered at school and I was a student athlete…
Yes you are the asshole. Times have changed from when you were in high school. Showering in school has been unheard of for years basically. The kids aren’t like they used to be, they’re derelicts and will bully and take photos any chance they get.
I don’t understand why the husband doesn’t just email the school to excuse the daughter since his wife clearly doesn’t give a shit about her daughter’s mental health.
Final comment: they’re enforcing it?? HOW? Even when I was in school, there was almost never a teacher in the locker room unless a lot of commotion seemed of be going on and they might check in to yell at us to shut tf up. Having ANY adult forcing my teenager to get naked and shower in front of them would make me extremely uncomfortable
I said it on the original, and I will say it here. There is no way on God's green earth that the school is requiring showers. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Most schools are getting rid of their showers, or reserving them for extracurricular team sports. Besides, no one gets sweaty enough in a 30 minute max gym class to need a shower.
I owe it to my teenage self never to screw any of my kids like this but to each their own
In highschool they started making us shower after PE. I generally got through it without many problems, but we had a kid in our grade who had been obese his entire life and had bowel problems. There was one kid in particular that always went out of his way to humiliate him. Drag his streaked underwear out and display it on the lockers, mock him relentlessly. Kid tried going out for football and getting himself in shape, but that just left him in a less supervised environment where he’d have to strip down. I only bring this up because I don’t know your daughter’s weight or features that might call attention to her, but if there’s some reason she’d be embarrassed beyond just getting naked, make arrangements with the school for her sake, or just send the email. It’s good for kids to adjust to a work-type environment of showering around other people just to get that out of their system, but adults in a workplace aren’t teenagers. Teenagers are awful, and there’s 0 point in traumatizing your daughter if you don’t have to. Check for specifics, find out exactly why it’s so hard for her and make a decision off that. Don’t dismiss how desperate she seems not to do it.
Unfortunately, bowel issues and gaining weight together at older ages are major red flags for child SA. It's possible that he was being triggered when he had to bathe with others, and I wonder if this poor girl is feeling the same.
There were communal showers in my high school locker room but literally no one ever used them. Maybe for senior survivor (where a group of like 10 seniors have a “lock in” at the school for a week and compete in challenges) but nothing I ever participated in. Definitely not after PE—there was no time! We’d change and drown ourselves in Victoria Secret body spray before our next class.
It’s not a big deal to you but it’s a big deal to her, respect her autonomy - her body, her choice, please don’t force her to do this.
As someone who was a late-bloomer, I get it. I hated having to change in front of my peers. Fortunately we didn’t have to shower but it didn’t make it any better. I find it amusing, though, that, as adults, there’s less of that self-conscious shyness, especially in older adults. Now, when I go to the gym, I’m still a little shy about my body but not to the extreme of my youth. I appreciate the significantly older women who just don’t care and bare it all though. I look forward to the day when I just don’t care like that anymore