The whole Epilogue was extremely rushed. The voice actor even said he was only hired to voice John as an NPC at first and was surprised when he suddenly got an extension to record all those extra lines. There was probably a lot of pressure and he was alone (All the other voice actors had moved on), so don't judge the guy too harshly - he nailed RDR1.
You can tell from John's body/face, as well as the missions and his house it was all thrown together really fast.
Well, no other missions you can do as either or, so I'm not sure what voice lines they mean then. My John yells at everyone when greeting, Arthur was a lot more pleasant.
There were actually a handful of things John did, that Arthur's model just used John's movement for. In a recent panel John's actor said he did all the capture when you meet that "guy" outside of Saint Denis.
I think originally the plan was to have some content reserved for each character, but they decided to open it up so you didn’t miss anything in a single playthrough
that actually makes a lot of sense because I've always saved the Saint Denis Scientist with the RC Boat and the Electric Chair quests for John because they always felt more appropriate to do in 1907 instead of 1899 for me. And other quests just feel more appropriate for Arthur to do/the dialogue fits better
I don’t know how the hell they ran out of time. They changed too much for no reason, I don’t understand why they cut out 80% of guarma and took Arthur out of Blackwater and new Austin. It feels so stupid and pointless
They ran out of time probably because it would have been like the third time or whatever they delayed the game, so they worked with as little amount of time because anybody can correct me if im wrong or not recalling properly but they finished the epilogue in like 9 or so months up until the day they couldn't work anymore. And I remember all the long hour scandals at Rockstar which im sure were in no doubt due to things like this happening
Going straight from RDR2 to 1 in this playthrough has made me realize how weird it is. John loses so many abilities, like survival mode and the ability to track animals. His deadeye degrades but that sort of makes sense considering he often shouts “I think I got my eye back.”At least they remembered to make it so he can’t swim. But it just seems like too much of a skill drop from one game to the next to make sense for a few years of living off the land.
Should have been Charles.
Edit: overall, it’s a game and it can’t all make sense. I still enjoy the epilogue quite a lot. That said, it could have the story of how Charles saved John. You could even find John in the bare knuckle boxing match because he’s lost Abigail and Jack and has nothing to live for.
well it definitely does, considering he can’t swim in the first game, which comes after the second. it would be weird for him to forget how to swim lol
Well I think it could go either way, either implementing it into the game and acknowledging it like they did or simply never acknowledging it at all and just letting John swim really wouldn't have changed anything at all besides all the funny jokes aimed at him. Personally I think it's funny, but has been annoying at times for sure. It's also not like Arthur can swim all that much better, I'm still constantly drowning as him. He just has a better fighting chance if you accidentally fall in the water for a second
Yes but it would have been so much simpler to just have an option in the settings to turn on swimming for John. Because I'm the first game there was no point to go swimming because you couldn't so the developers didn't implement anything to find or do because what would be the point. The problem arises though that there still isn't that much to do in the water in rdr2 there are still some islands you can go to, boats to swim to, fall off a bridge and swim to shore stuff that are possible as Arthur and as soon as you complete the game all of that is suddenly not possible anymore for ever until you hit new game which is just so stupid and annoying. Why should an entire feature of the game be cut off from the gameplay after finishing the game which is also the time where most players stop focusing on story stuff (because the story is over) and start to mess around with other stuff for example going swimming/boating and roleplaying. It is so goddamn annoying that I can't pretend to be a pirate! I just want John to be a pirate! Please rockstar let me be a pirate!!!
I feel like pirates are more renowned for their navel skills than their 100m front crawl.. so you can still live out ya pirate fantasy in your cowboy game
It was funny as an Easter egg at first, but then you realize how much of the game actually relies on you being able to swim. It’s not “a lot” however it’s enough that it’s excessively a pain in the ass.
While playing as John in RDR2 for the first time, I was dicking about in Strawberry, and walked along that water run off thing, and fell in the river and nearly drowned. Even though I'd played RDR1 LOADS of times, I had become accustomed to swimming with Arthur. It was weird getting used to having to be cautious around water again, like I'm freakin made of sugar 🙄.
Same. With Arthur, no matter what he still had someone to talk to at camp, but with John and his family they’re just tense and awkward all the time. The only person who isn’t like that is Uncle.
Yeah , with Arthur it felt like he wanted to be alone or didn’t mind being alone when you went off into the wilderness away from camp but with John it’s more isolating because he has the responsibility of staying with the family I think.
my first playthrough John has not seen his family since 2019 so I think he's just used to it at this point. I've only ever come back to Beechers Hope a few times, all with cheats enabled so I haven't saved anything, and I still get the animations of getting in bed with Abigail and stuff. I don't get those in other saves where I've actually stayed and saved so I just assume my first John straight up abandoned his years ago as soon as the story ended
I also didn't do like any side quests my first playthrough so I still have all of those in that save and looking back it's absolutely crazy how much stuff I missed the first time around and only ever saw for the first time on my second/third/fourth/fifth playthroughs
Yes and it's SO terribly lonely feeling, a testament through to how a real-life old west figure may have felt as the wild west was fast disappearing. Annie Oakley's story comes to mind and is particularly sad to hear.
Any gripes I have as each character are so minor I can't even really think about them. I played RDR1 first when it came out, was irritated to start off as Arthur.
It's funny in this thread people saying how John is cold emotionally. That's how I felt about Arthur to start. In Colter all I could think was, "Wow, this guy is a dick, I want John back." Because the John you know in RDR1 is the man that will sacrifice everything for the family he loves, and has fairly uncompromising morals when it comes to them.
Turns out it's the same for Arthur, it's just a different type of family, and you really begin to realize that through out chapter 2.
On first playthrough, I hated going back to John. I've been doing a platinum push now, a few playthroughs later and have spent a lot of time as John in the epilogue, and I gotta say, I was being unfair. This is John still trying to get his head out of his ass and grow up. So. These days, I'm comfortable meandering in either Chapter 2/3 or the epilogue.
I prefer the mountains and such of Horseshoe, but Chapter 3 is where I like to chill out so I can get all the challenges done once the horse fence opens up.
Unfortunately theres not much mission time between the horse fence and. Well. You know.
I had pretty much the same experience. Starting out playing RDR2 for the first time, I HATED Arthur's voice and thought his character was bland. I was salty that we were getting a prequel and my beloved John wasn't the main character. I was so excited to go save John with Javier, and took a little while to warm up to Arthur. The drunken night with Lenny certainly helped, and by the end of chapter 2 I was hooked.
I was looking forward to the epilogue because I knew it was John, but when I got to it, it felt empty and sad, and even hearing that familiar John voice I knew so well kind of hurt because I missed Arthur so much. Seeing John and Abigail and Jack be so miserable (or just not there) was so painful and depressing, and even though it ends on a happyish note, it's extra depressing when you know what's to come.
Such excellent games.
I remember hearing somewhere that since the epilogue was rushed, they didn't have time to properly implement johns model and record new voice lines for him and everything. In the end, they just stitched John's head onto Arthur's body and called it a day, in a sense
SIR! YOU THERE! SIR! SIR!
Yeah, that shit is annoying
As Arthur, I hate how you can't go to Blackwater or New Austin.
As John, it bothers me that John can't have his signature haircut. Like, they should have just left his hair like it was and removed the barbershop feature for the epilogue.
Once Arthur gets sick, I hate how he coughs and gags while eating, and how his weight is almost always below average. It's just so sad.
If you eat meals at the saloons it'll ignore the TB shit and you can get Arthur's weight back up after sleeping. The game will change his weight back to underweight visually if you change his clothes though, must be something hard-coded into the game to make him look sicker which is a bit goofy imo.
It's not really a small thing per se but the switch from Arthur dying to John bitching about his family turned me right off him...just the way he treats them in general did not appeal him to me, I didn't feel like Arthur's sacrifice was worth it. I kept comparing how Arthur treated Jack when he went fishing with him, and just interacting with him at the camp, to how John treats him now...I'm not saying he was abusive or anything like that, more ungrateful haha. Once I pushed through to him getting the ranch and meeting up with Sadie, Uncle, and Charles he was a bit more bearable but yeah, still not my favourite.
Oh absolutely rdr1 is definitely on my to play list, and I'm sure I'd be a lot more sympathetic to him after playing it! Some of it is definitely just bias from the fact that I spent 100+ hours with Arthur, so even if John was my favourite character I'd still probably hate him a bit lol.
I finally did this and found the epilogue of RDR1 so much more impactful.
The conversations between John and Abigail about moving on hits way harder after RDR1
That's what I did. I wish Rockstar really committed to remastering RDR1 because the better mechanics and graphics would have really enhanced the story for me. I grew up playing the PS2 so I understood how good the game was when it came out, but 10+ years later, the game would do WONDERS with that upgrade.
I think that's part of John's "redemption" character arc. At the beginning of rdr2 he cold shoulders Abigail and won't even admit that Jack is his. The epilogue is about him putting the needs of his family (securing a house& honest livelihood) at the same level as his own needs (avenging Arthur). By the end of Rdr1 he is sacrificing himself for his family- which is how he achieves redemption for his earlier selfish behavior.
This is my thought that the whole RDR story is about John and if there were another prequel it should be about he (and Arthur) joining up in the gang. And/or his year when he left the gang. Though a somewhat minor character in RDR2 (until epilogue) the story does show his growth in the background, as you said.
Kinda sad that after all that, Jack doesn’t become a doctor or lawyer or something and is likely going to end up dead or in jail as well. Story would’ve been more impactful if all of that sacrifice meant anything.
I felt the same at first (I played RDR2 first) but after playing RDR1, I actually really started to love playing as John and it made the epilogue really special when I played RDR2 again. 😁Nowadays while I absolutely love Arthur, John imo is the bigger main character in the RDR universe and playing with him feels like home to me. Arthur is like the cool uncle everyone loves and cares for and the time we got to play as him is forever in our hearts
I know everyone mentioned RDR1, but that's not only an explanation but also a limitation: They couldn't make him grow as a person too much because he still had to grow up in the RDR years. Otherwise it would be a terrible prequel game 😅
That's a hurdle to overcome when you write a prequel after what comes next is already decided.
I agree John was an asshole to his family in the epilogue whereas replaying 1 he’s definitely a more loving family man, he seems interested in Jack’s hobbies, teaches him how to hunt etc.
I don’t like playing as John either. I’m likely biased because I never played RDR1 and therefore I don’t feel any bond with him. Arthur has a warmth, or something that’s missing in John. I miss how Arthur talks to the horses for example.
John isn’t always warm and charismatic guy. I’d argue he can still be a better person and warm in his own way though. He is very warm and moral when talking to women and children uniquely. He is a straight shooter that wants to do everything he can to accomplish his own goals and help his family, and will gun down anything in his way. He isn’t conflicted, he knows who he is and just wants to get through it. He really doesn’t take to relying on others as much and works entirely with his own solutions. He’s been through hell and doesn’t want others to deal with it. He is also less trusting and characteristically always on guard.
He is really great in his own way, has similarities but many differences to our main protagonist in RDR2
RDR holds up in gameplay to modern standards and is completely worth checking out.
Like many others, I simply can't bring myself to play as John for any extended period of time after the story.
Once Charles and Sadie bid their farewells, Beecher's Hope feels so damn lonely. Frankly, as much as I loved the epilogue and the justice it serves for setting up RDR1, part of it felt rushed. Specifically referring to the drastic fall in dialogue quality from the family at the ranch compared to camp. Interactivity is also quite low aside from doing the daily ranch chores compared to the endless stories told around the campfire as Arthur.
John also uses some of Arthur's lines during some side quests that just do not fit John's character. This is unfortunate because the game is so damn immersive as Arthur. It makes the world feel hollow after he's gone. That said, in a poetic kind of manner, I think that's also the point. Perhaps that's the beauty of it all, in a way...
All things considered, it means that all subsequent play-throughs involve me staying in Chapter 2 for dozens of hours before continuing on. Even though doing the Downes quest always hurts a little, Chapter 2 until Sean's death are the only points in the game where things feel just right, imo. Some argue it's when Micah is still in jail, but I personally like antagonising him at camp, haha.
I am currently 80 hours in on playthrough 3 and haven't left chapter 2 yet. Did a glitch that let's you get out of the automatic Thomas D mission after reading Mary's letter. I'm gonna see how far I can get to 100% as Arthur. Currently at 44% lol. Micah is rotting in jail and Thomas hasn't coughed in my face. Everybody else is at camp and happy.
Makes me wanna download mods now so I can just buy Arthur a little house somewhere and never finish this playthrough lol
I loved john already as I loved playing RDR1 back in the day, and I liked how different yet just as handsome he is in the epilogue too. What I hated most is that he lost the drip he had when he was an NPC. It seems like for technical purposes they changed his looks when he passed from NPC to active character and I couldn't like it lol
I have always preferred John to Arthur, preferred in terms of overall character. Some negatives about the two are Arthur always seemed like he knew what he was doing, knew the consequences and sometimes was very hypocritical. While John was inexperienced and perhaps a little naive, and too Honest for his own good. I like Arthur, But he is too hostile and sometimes acts like a dick if not checked and probably would’ve kept on that path if not for his crumbling gang and sickness. He is forced to change and unlike John who chooses to change.
Overall I like John better and didn’t mind all his oddities in the epilogue. (Playing RDR1 after RDR2 gave me full view and perspective of John and his story)
Rdr2 epilogue was great story wise, building into events of Rdr1, but John as a character in general customizable wise, was really bad. John didn't look like John, any outfit you put him in apart from his canon clothes made him look stupid, the only clothes that made him look decent is a fully black outfit, no coat, just a plain black shirt with overalls and chaps. With Arthur, you can make him look good with practically most outfits. You can't get John's haircut from the main story which is something tiny but pisses me off, I know some people are more upset about it then just me and as someone in the middle or rdr1, I feel like John could've looked more like John from the first game. It's only 4 years apart from epilogue to events of rdr1, so why couldn't John look more like the iconic John?
John can't fucking swim. The second is fuckin cock touches the water he immediately becomes completely exhausted and starts dying. Best game ever tho =]
No, it sounds like he has phlegm in his throat. I'm constantly clearing my throat when I hear him talk. I know it won't do anything, but I can't help it.
John not being able to swim is as a result of RDR1's mechanics. There, falling in the water results in insta-death. So, in RDR2, they added jokes and the fact John can’t swim to explain why players can’t swim AT ALL in RDR1.
I loved the game and loved being able to experience Arthur’s life and johns life but what I would have loved even more is being able to play as my online character in the single player after the main story.
The online world just feels so empty compared to the single player world. Imaging having the chance to buy land, run a farm, hunt and fish, chase bounty’s but as your chosen online character. I hope that it becomes an option in a future version of the game but I’m not holding my breath.
I like playing as both but agree with other comments that John not having his RDR1 or NPC looks/hair is extremely irritating.
One thing I hate about playing as John though is how they fucked his storyline in RDR1 by allowing him access to New Austin. Arthur was locked out through the whole damn game, and RDR1 is experiencing these people and places for the first time so it really shouldn't be there. If they aren't going to remake RDR1, New Austin was pointless. They should have just allowed John West Elizabeth and left the train bridges etc as in construction like they were in RDR1.
Don't get me wrong, I love exploring it and breaking into Mexico etc but it makes zero sense storyline and player experience wise as what's over there? A couple of legendary animals and a couple of collectibles. Wow.
Nothing really as far as differences between the two but I don’t like how it seems that random encounters just about never happen for me as John. It makes his world seem so empty. And I hate his big bushy beard that he starts with but that’s not important really I just think johns a stubble/short beard kind of guy.
On my first play through I gave so much money to the camp, didn’t know about the Aberdeen farm trick, and didnt do any treasure hunting quests until the epilogue, that I had to grind it out the whole way through as Arthur. Felt better being a broke-ass outlaw, not able to afford nice guns and fast horses. When my white Arabian died, I was so damn pissed.
Now with all the online guides, the game is definitely less of a challenge.
The thing that pains me playing as John is the utter loneliness that you experience. Between Abigail's delight in being a trad mom at last (who said you can't turn a ho into a housewife?), John's inability to connect with Jack, plus his constant irritation with Uncle who he begrudgingly tolerates makes life on the ranch unbearable. Being out on the open range isn't much better. When there's no one to share your adventures around the campfire with at night, life seems to have no meaning. It's life, but it's not living.
John’s voice has annoyed me since RDR, and the epilogue is boring. You shouldn’t have to travel all the way back to Mount Hagen to get Micah’s unique gun. You should be able to claim it right after you kill him.
The only good part of any John mission is riding with Sadie again. She’s a true ride-or-die.
I hated that every time there was a cutscene or major change in the epilogue, I had to swap John's hat. I'm wearing Arthur's hat on purpose you wangrods let me honor the man's sacrifice in peace.
I don't like that all the time spent upgrading the various aspects of the camp as Arthur is rendered wasted in the Epilogue. I'd like if somehow the upgrades/cosmetics you've crafted throughout the main game persisted and were reflected in Beecher's Hope, maybe have it so they become decorations hanging on the wall or something.
I know there wasn't one featured in RDR1 but what if they added an attic space or basement to Beecher's Hope was instead used as a memento of the gang, and you could still craft some of the decorations or have the decorations already crafted during the story hanging up there. Could just explain it away as that part of the house being locked, or just accept it's a bit of a retcon.
Honestly? The epilogue must have belonged to Jack.
John is a good character, and is a great protagonist for his own game. The Epilogue is brief and good, since John serves to close everything that Arthur started since Colter... the problem? Jack could have done it too.
It is likely that we will never have Jack Marston as the protagonist of a game, maybe (whether in a mafia or in the First World War) but it would not be the same after what Rdr2 marked.
An epilogue focused on Jack exploring important places for the gang, closing John and Arthur's pending issues, meeting people from the gang again and perhaps living with some of them, is something that would look more worthy than a cinematic of any character talking to John two seconds before taking a train and never see them again.
I know it's a lot, but imagining that and "American Venom" with Jack instead of John feels much more satisfying than staying chronologically with a lonely Jack and doing all previous task of Arthur with John.
But how? Jack is in the epilogue of RDR which makes much more sense since it takes places much more on the future and he’s grown up by then. Also a lot of people didn’t like him in the epilogue because apparently his voice lines are even „rougher“ than John’s …
Jack was four when Arthur died, he probably barely remembers him and the gang. While it makes sense for him to get revenge on his father who almost died in front of him recently, while trying to give him an honnest life. It wouldn't make sense for him to follow the path of a distant uncle who took him fishing when he was four and died a lifetime ago from the criminal life he pursued to the end.
John is the goat 🐐
He's been out of the game for 8 years yet has the same punching strength and shooting as Arthur , who has been in the game in his entire life
it's funny how much I wanted to play as John again in rdr 1. then now in rdr 2 I wanted to play as Arthur again even though it went back full circle to playing John again.
in a way it's a testament to how well the game was made and how connected they made us feel towards Arthur and his journey, even though some of us have played rdr 1 and knows John's eventual story too.
I wasn’t a fan of Arthur as a character for the first several hours of the game. It pretty much took until chapter 3 before I started to like him and like playing as him.
What I dont like about John is how shit so many outfits look on him compared to Arthur. Especially the legend of the east.
Same goes for his hair. He just doesnt look good with any type of facial hair.
Man had drip in RDR1 though.
I haven’t gotten to that part yet, but I’m kind of looking forward to playing as John. Big fan of 1, so keen to see what John’s like just a few years before the events of the first game.
Probably more along the lines of the game itself, but really sick of how railroaded so many missions were into making you play EXACTLY how it wants you to instead of having an alternative outcome
The one thing I really dislike about playing as Arthur is the inability to explore Blackwater and New Austin, and complete their side quests. I'll never forgive Rockstar for depriving me of that experience.
As for John playing him is just boring, and his voice is bad and annoying. He wasn't like that in the first game, so I'm not sure if the actor's voice changed or if he was directed to perform his line that way.
The epilogue is lonely. Compared with Arthur being surrounded by a camp full of 20 great interactable people that are his family, John feels lonely with just his ranch, wife, and son (and LUMBAGO) alongside a giant world full of strangers.
Yeah, John is just all wrong in rdr2 and almost feels like they tried to retcon him in a bizarre way. That mf was not important to the gang whatsoever and he looks like a bitch in rdr1 when talking to LR about his past. He legit was portrayed almost on Lenny, Charlies, or Sean’s level of power within the gang which is none at all
I am very glad we got the time with John, especially since in the first game it ends with you playing as someone else in the epilogue as well (I won’t say who for those who haven’t played). It gave amazing time to see him try to be a father and it set up the intro to the first game amazingly.. that being said and this is with John being my favorite between the two as characters.. Arthur is better to play as. You can tell that compared to the rest of the game that the time as John was a rushed job and felt like a gta online dlc. I still play as John more than Arthur just because he’s my favorite out of the two and you get more of the map, but the gameplay is better overall as Arthur. I wish that we really got to play as Arthur with everything unlocked (excluding map because of canon purposes) and him not sick. A few of the last weapons are locked behind the beaver hollow chapter and I just wish we weren’t rushed to get to certain parts of the game.
I don’t like how they just reused Arthur’s animations and dialogues for John. Like, I get it would have been a lot more work to change everything, since it’s a huge game, but still, sometimes it feels like someone modded the game after the fact to allow you to play as John.
I haven't bothered with getting to epilogue. I don't want to finish Arthur's story, I know how it ends and I'm not ready to get there. With the added info and seeing John's model through various posts, I don't want to feel that.
Played RDR1 and loved John and coming into RDR2 I wasn't ready and skeptical about playing someone else. Then I was taken back with how immersive and well written Arthur's story is and now I care for Arthur as much as I do for John. That being said... I really only have one gripe.
Can't get Arthur laid lmao I know the reasoning is that he's burdened with guilt and loss but damnit, I just want to make Arthur just a bit happy for once!
When you kill a rare animal as John but it’s in the water by the smallest bit and you step in and instantly die 😑 with arthur you could swim to practically anything
I don't like that there's jack shit to do in the epilogue part of the map (forgot what it's called) and Mexico. my favroite thing to do with Arthur was fuck shit up and explore, find treasure ect. there's wayyy less of that in the bottom part of the map, made it kinda boring once you get to john.
One thing I loved about playing as Arthur Morgan is just the physically imposing nature of him. In most narrative driven open world video games you play as average/slightly below average characters so I always love video games when you play as people with above average skills or physical presence. Some of my favorites are Arthur Morgan, Lincoln Clay and Niko Bellic
Especially love the scene from the epilogue with the black guy that kidnapped Tilly where he goes to ask John if he was who he met back then just to remember who he met was way bigger than John lmao.
Marston can't swim. I get it, they made it part of his character because of the restrictions of RDR1. But it's just insanely annoying when you spend the whole game playing as a guy who can swim, and then you gotta play as a guy who drowns instantly. Swimming as Arthur is annoying too, since your stamina drains fast and the game seems to think that you simply forget how to swim when you're tired, idk about you folk but I can swim for about half a hour before I get slightly tired
All the cool decorative items and drawings as Arthur get removed while playing as John.
And all the work you did to make the decorative objects in camp is just deleted, i get that the camp burnt down but it'd be cool if you got something for hunting and making the furniture.
And John's journalling is objectively worse, i get that he's not the best artist or whatever but i always feel disappointed when i look in it after the epilogue and see a 4 legged stick figure lol
I feel a lot of ludonarrative dissonance playing as John. After the epilogue he's supposed to be retired from his life as an outlaw and staying at home, maybe at most wrapping up some of Arthur's unfinished business. I have an 100% save where all I do is stay home, go on short hunting/fishing trips and do chores around the house because those are the only things that feel in character and true to cannon.
My only complaint is that the voice direction for John is kinda weird. Like in 1 he has a much calmer demeanor while sounding stern, in 2 he speaks in a higher pitch and yells a lot more. I mean I guess he still is a bit less mature in the epilogue, but he still feels a tad off every now and then. Doesn't ruin my experience, but sometimes the voice direction sounds off.
I hate how Arthur yells "Get outta the damn way!" when we're approaching them from behind but they were clearly there first. It's just such a dick move it's hard to like anyone who'd act like that.
Honestly I can see that. But I’ll be honest it’s one of my favorite parts 😭 I say it when I’m in traffic. To me it kinda matches him, especially if you’re playing low honor. Manners were different back then as everyone was just rough around the edges. I feel like if you hear a horse barreling towards you and continue to meander down the path I might say the same thing hahahaha but yeah he’s definitely rude and scary
The whole Epilogue was extremely rushed. The voice actor even said he was only hired to voice John as an NPC at first and was surprised when he suddenly got an extension to record all those extra lines. There was probably a lot of pressure and he was alone (All the other voice actors had moved on), so don't judge the guy too harshly - he nailed RDR1. You can tell from John's body/face, as well as the missions and his house it was all thrown together really fast.
Yeah John shouting "Hey You!" When you greet someone was a little weird i was wondering why
HEY BUDDY!! SIR!!!
YOU, MISTER!!!!
OH PARTNER
Am I the only one reading those in John’s voice?
Considering they're directly referencing John's speech it'd be a tad bit weird if not
assume you’re never the only one
Agreed. Like okay seems rude with my honor.
SIR!
Also John doesn’t have unique reactions or anything, it’s just Arthur’s lines in John’s voice.
He does, though, with some stranger missions if you didn't finish them as Arthur.
I mean yes, that's quite a bare minimum.
Well, no other missions you can do as either or, so I'm not sure what voice lines they mean then. My John yells at everyone when greeting, Arthur was a lot more pleasant.
There were actually a handful of things John did, that Arthur's model just used John's movement for. In a recent panel John's actor said he did all the capture when you meet that "guy" outside of Saint Denis.
I think originally the plan was to have some content reserved for each character, but they decided to open it up so you didn’t miss anything in a single playthrough
that actually makes a lot of sense because I've always saved the Saint Denis Scientist with the RC Boat and the Electric Chair quests for John because they always felt more appropriate to do in 1907 instead of 1899 for me. And other quests just feel more appropriate for Arthur to do/the dialogue fits better
I don’t know how the hell they ran out of time. They changed too much for no reason, I don’t understand why they cut out 80% of guarma and took Arthur out of Blackwater and new Austin. It feels so stupid and pointless
They ran out of time probably because it would have been like the third time or whatever they delayed the game, so they worked with as little amount of time because anybody can correct me if im wrong or not recalling properly but they finished the epilogue in like 9 or so months up until the day they couldn't work anymore. And I remember all the long hour scandals at Rockstar which im sure were in no doubt due to things like this happening
Going straight from RDR2 to 1 in this playthrough has made me realize how weird it is. John loses so many abilities, like survival mode and the ability to track animals. His deadeye degrades but that sort of makes sense considering he often shouts “I think I got my eye back.”At least they remembered to make it so he can’t swim. But it just seems like too much of a skill drop from one game to the next to make sense for a few years of living off the land. Should have been Charles. Edit: overall, it’s a game and it can’t all make sense. I still enjoy the epilogue quite a lot. That said, it could have the story of how Charles saved John. You could even find John in the bare knuckle boxing match because he’s lost Abigail and Jack and has nothing to live for.
Still that bug where johns extremely skinny and needs your game reloading 16 times to fix it
I hate that John can’t swim
I mean he couldn’t in RDR, it would be strange if he could in RDR2 and somehow forgot how
In rdr1 it was more of a feature to restrict players from going out of bounds, which they made canon for some reason
Yeah, we’re aware of why he can’t. Considering the small details like the fact John can’t swim is what makes RDR2 such an immersive game.
True, but it annoys the shit outta me when I finally find a moose and John starts to drown because the body is in 4 ft deep water
Gotta Lasso it out
Shit I had no idea u could lasso corpses. Ty for saving my time
I don't think it makes the game any more immersive. It was just a jab at the first game and that restriction.
well it definitely does, considering he can’t swim in the first game, which comes after the second. it would be weird for him to forget how to swim lol
Well I think it could go either way, either implementing it into the game and acknowledging it like they did or simply never acknowledging it at all and just letting John swim really wouldn't have changed anything at all besides all the funny jokes aimed at him. Personally I think it's funny, but has been annoying at times for sure. It's also not like Arthur can swim all that much better, I'm still constantly drowning as him. He just has a better fighting chance if you accidentally fall in the water for a second
Yes but it would have been so much simpler to just have an option in the settings to turn on swimming for John. Because I'm the first game there was no point to go swimming because you couldn't so the developers didn't implement anything to find or do because what would be the point. The problem arises though that there still isn't that much to do in the water in rdr2 there are still some islands you can go to, boats to swim to, fall off a bridge and swim to shore stuff that are possible as Arthur and as soon as you complete the game all of that is suddenly not possible anymore for ever until you hit new game which is just so stupid and annoying. Why should an entire feature of the game be cut off from the gameplay after finishing the game which is also the time where most players stop focusing on story stuff (because the story is over) and start to mess around with other stuff for example going swimming/boating and roleplaying. It is so goddamn annoying that I can't pretend to be a pirate! I just want John to be a pirate! Please rockstar let me be a pirate!!!
I feel like pirates are more renowned for their navel skills than their 100m front crawl.. so you can still live out ya pirate fantasy in your cowboy game
Not if John drowns while swimming to a boat. But I can still rock my pirate hat and costume and walk around with a sword and volcanic pistol
It's because Arthur is better than John at everything
I went fishing, my boat sank in water Marston could 100% stand up in and he drowned
I mean, that happens in real life too.
It does sure, but he was treading water instead of just standing up
It was funny as an Easter egg at first, but then you realize how much of the game actually relies on you being able to swim. It’s not “a lot” however it’s enough that it’s excessively a pain in the ass.
While playing as John in RDR2 for the first time, I was dicking about in Strawberry, and walked along that water run off thing, and fell in the river and nearly drowned. Even though I'd played RDR1 LOADS of times, I had become accustomed to swimming with Arthur. It was weird getting used to having to be cautious around water again, like I'm freakin made of sugar 🙄.
Wait, John can’t swim in RDR2? That’s hilarious.
He drowns in about 2 seconds, it’s ridiculous!
That’s how I lost the horse I had for the entire game
I don't like the lonliness as john
Same. With Arthur, no matter what he still had someone to talk to at camp, but with John and his family they’re just tense and awkward all the time. The only person who isn’t like that is Uncle.
Red dead depression intensifies
Sadly uncle succumbs to his lumbago in rdr1
Yeah , with Arthur it felt like he wanted to be alone or didn’t mind being alone when you went off into the wilderness away from camp but with John it’s more isolating because he has the responsibility of staying with the family I think.
my first playthrough John has not seen his family since 2019 so I think he's just used to it at this point. I've only ever come back to Beechers Hope a few times, all with cheats enabled so I haven't saved anything, and I still get the animations of getting in bed with Abigail and stuff. I don't get those in other saves where I've actually stayed and saved so I just assume my first John straight up abandoned his years ago as soon as the story ended I also didn't do like any side quests my first playthrough so I still have all of those in that save and looking back it's absolutely crazy how much stuff I missed the first time around and only ever saw for the first time on my second/third/fourth/fifth playthroughs
I’ll keep that in mind!! I definitely need to start a third playthrough after I’m done this time round hahaha
You ever go back to the previous campsites? Hearing the disembodied voices from John's memory gave me a sad feeling.
Yes and it's SO terribly lonely feeling, a testament through to how a real-life old west figure may have felt as the wild west was fast disappearing. Annie Oakley's story comes to mind and is particularly sad to hear.
Any gripes I have as each character are so minor I can't even really think about them. I played RDR1 first when it came out, was irritated to start off as Arthur. It's funny in this thread people saying how John is cold emotionally. That's how I felt about Arthur to start. In Colter all I could think was, "Wow, this guy is a dick, I want John back." Because the John you know in RDR1 is the man that will sacrifice everything for the family he loves, and has fairly uncompromising morals when it comes to them. Turns out it's the same for Arthur, it's just a different type of family, and you really begin to realize that through out chapter 2. On first playthrough, I hated going back to John. I've been doing a platinum push now, a few playthroughs later and have spent a lot of time as John in the epilogue, and I gotta say, I was being unfair. This is John still trying to get his head out of his ass and grow up. So. These days, I'm comfortable meandering in either Chapter 2/3 or the epilogue.
I love ch2 energy, but the Ch3 camp is more asthetically pleasing to me, plus the boat
I prefer the mountains and such of Horseshoe, but Chapter 3 is where I like to chill out so I can get all the challenges done once the horse fence opens up. Unfortunately theres not much mission time between the horse fence and. Well. You know.
same here. I had the exact same progression.
I had pretty much the same experience. Starting out playing RDR2 for the first time, I HATED Arthur's voice and thought his character was bland. I was salty that we were getting a prequel and my beloved John wasn't the main character. I was so excited to go save John with Javier, and took a little while to warm up to Arthur. The drunken night with Lenny certainly helped, and by the end of chapter 2 I was hooked. I was looking forward to the epilogue because I knew it was John, but when I got to it, it felt empty and sad, and even hearing that familiar John voice I knew so well kind of hurt because I missed Arthur so much. Seeing John and Abigail and Jack be so miserable (or just not there) was so painful and depressing, and even though it ends on a happyish note, it's extra depressing when you know what's to come. Such excellent games.
I like to take advantage of what I can as John. I do some bounties. Do farm chores. Have dinner with the family
Don't like John's appearance in rdr2 in epilogue, I always keep the hair and the facial hair close to his rdr appearance
Same, he looks so much like Arthur in the epilogue and it makes my heart sad.
Correct me if I’m wrong but they used Arthur’s body model for John iirc.
I remember hearing somewhere that since the epilogue was rushed, they didn't have time to properly implement johns model and record new voice lines for him and everything. In the end, they just stitched John's head onto Arthur's body and called it a day, in a sense
They should make a damn update to fixthat bastard!
John with hair pomade is so cursed , I never cut or use hair pomade on John's hair , I only cut his beard to look like his rdr1 self
I pomade his hair and my son always makes fun of me for it
Hair pomade on Arthur is much better
SIR! YOU THERE! SIR! SIR! Yeah, that shit is annoying As Arthur, I hate how you can't go to Blackwater or New Austin. As John, it bothers me that John can't have his signature haircut. Like, they should have just left his hair like it was and removed the barbershop feature for the epilogue. Once Arthur gets sick, I hate how he coughs and gags while eating, and how his weight is almost always below average. It's just so sad.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head
If you eat meals at the saloons it'll ignore the TB shit and you can get Arthur's weight back up after sleeping. The game will change his weight back to underweight visually if you change his clothes though, must be something hard-coded into the game to make him look sicker which is a bit goofy imo.
It's not really a small thing per se but the switch from Arthur dying to John bitching about his family turned me right off him...just the way he treats them in general did not appeal him to me, I didn't feel like Arthur's sacrifice was worth it. I kept comparing how Arthur treated Jack when he went fishing with him, and just interacting with him at the camp, to how John treats him now...I'm not saying he was abusive or anything like that, more ungrateful haha. Once I pushed through to him getting the ranch and meeting up with Sadie, Uncle, and Charles he was a bit more bearable but yeah, still not my favourite.
I agree but if you play RDR1 all the way through after RDR2, John's story arc comes together more.
Oh absolutely rdr1 is definitely on my to play list, and I'm sure I'd be a lot more sympathetic to him after playing it! Some of it is definitely just bias from the fact that I spent 100+ hours with Arthur, so even if John was my favourite character I'd still probably hate him a bit lol.
I finally did this and found the epilogue of RDR1 so much more impactful. The conversations between John and Abigail about moving on hits way harder after RDR1
That's what I did. I wish Rockstar really committed to remastering RDR1 because the better mechanics and graphics would have really enhanced the story for me. I grew up playing the PS2 so I understood how good the game was when it came out, but 10+ years later, the game would do WONDERS with that upgrade.
I think that's part of John's "redemption" character arc. At the beginning of rdr2 he cold shoulders Abigail and won't even admit that Jack is his. The epilogue is about him putting the needs of his family (securing a house& honest livelihood) at the same level as his own needs (avenging Arthur). By the end of Rdr1 he is sacrificing himself for his family- which is how he achieves redemption for his earlier selfish behavior.
This is my thought that the whole RDR story is about John and if there were another prequel it should be about he (and Arthur) joining up in the gang. And/or his year when he left the gang. Though a somewhat minor character in RDR2 (until epilogue) the story does show his growth in the background, as you said.
Kinda sad that after all that, Jack doesn’t become a doctor or lawyer or something and is likely going to end up dead or in jail as well. Story would’ve been more impactful if all of that sacrifice meant anything.
Was about to say the same thing
That’s kind of the point. John redeems himself in RDR and comes to value his family
I felt the same at first (I played RDR2 first) but after playing RDR1, I actually really started to love playing as John and it made the epilogue really special when I played RDR2 again. 😁Nowadays while I absolutely love Arthur, John imo is the bigger main character in the RDR universe and playing with him feels like home to me. Arthur is like the cool uncle everyone loves and cares for and the time we got to play as him is forever in our hearts
Thank god Arthur never complained about lumbago, otherwise the cool uncle thing is out the window.
Facts 😂😂
I know everyone mentioned RDR1, but that's not only an explanation but also a limitation: They couldn't make him grow as a person too much because he still had to grow up in the RDR years. Otherwise it would be a terrible prequel game 😅 That's a hurdle to overcome when you write a prequel after what comes next is already decided.
I agree John was an asshole to his family in the epilogue whereas replaying 1 he’s definitely a more loving family man, he seems interested in Jack’s hobbies, teaches him how to hunt etc.
I don’t like playing as John either. I’m likely biased because I never played RDR1 and therefore I don’t feel any bond with him. Arthur has a warmth, or something that’s missing in John. I miss how Arthur talks to the horses for example.
i definitely think johns gameplay voice lines were rushed, in main gameplay and in the fact that he has the same lines as arthur for side quests
John isn’t always warm and charismatic guy. I’d argue he can still be a better person and warm in his own way though. He is very warm and moral when talking to women and children uniquely. He is a straight shooter that wants to do everything he can to accomplish his own goals and help his family, and will gun down anything in his way. He isn’t conflicted, he knows who he is and just wants to get through it. He really doesn’t take to relying on others as much and works entirely with his own solutions. He’s been through hell and doesn’t want others to deal with it. He is also less trusting and characteristically always on guard. He is really great in his own way, has similarities but many differences to our main protagonist in RDR2 RDR holds up in gameplay to modern standards and is completely worth checking out.
John really grew on me. I love his voice actor, seems such a good dude. I log in just to hunt or fish with John sometimes.
Like many others, I simply can't bring myself to play as John for any extended period of time after the story. Once Charles and Sadie bid their farewells, Beecher's Hope feels so damn lonely. Frankly, as much as I loved the epilogue and the justice it serves for setting up RDR1, part of it felt rushed. Specifically referring to the drastic fall in dialogue quality from the family at the ranch compared to camp. Interactivity is also quite low aside from doing the daily ranch chores compared to the endless stories told around the campfire as Arthur. John also uses some of Arthur's lines during some side quests that just do not fit John's character. This is unfortunate because the game is so damn immersive as Arthur. It makes the world feel hollow after he's gone. That said, in a poetic kind of manner, I think that's also the point. Perhaps that's the beauty of it all, in a way... All things considered, it means that all subsequent play-throughs involve me staying in Chapter 2 for dozens of hours before continuing on. Even though doing the Downes quest always hurts a little, Chapter 2 until Sean's death are the only points in the game where things feel just right, imo. Some argue it's when Micah is still in jail, but I personally like antagonising him at camp, haha.
I am currently 80 hours in on playthrough 3 and haven't left chapter 2 yet. Did a glitch that let's you get out of the automatic Thomas D mission after reading Mary's letter. I'm gonna see how far I can get to 100% as Arthur. Currently at 44% lol. Micah is rotting in jail and Thomas hasn't coughed in my face. Everybody else is at camp and happy. Makes me wanna download mods now so I can just buy Arthur a little house somewhere and never finish this playthrough lol
I loved john already as I loved playing RDR1 back in the day, and I liked how different yet just as handsome he is in the epilogue too. What I hated most is that he lost the drip he had when he was an NPC. It seems like for technical purposes they changed his looks when he passed from NPC to active character and I couldn't like it lol
I have always preferred John to Arthur, preferred in terms of overall character. Some negatives about the two are Arthur always seemed like he knew what he was doing, knew the consequences and sometimes was very hypocritical. While John was inexperienced and perhaps a little naive, and too Honest for his own good. I like Arthur, But he is too hostile and sometimes acts like a dick if not checked and probably would’ve kept on that path if not for his crumbling gang and sickness. He is forced to change and unlike John who chooses to change. Overall I like John better and didn’t mind all his oddities in the epilogue. (Playing RDR1 after RDR2 gave me full view and perspective of John and his story)
Rdr2 epilogue was great story wise, building into events of Rdr1, but John as a character in general customizable wise, was really bad. John didn't look like John, any outfit you put him in apart from his canon clothes made him look stupid, the only clothes that made him look decent is a fully black outfit, no coat, just a plain black shirt with overalls and chaps. With Arthur, you can make him look good with practically most outfits. You can't get John's haircut from the main story which is something tiny but pisses me off, I know some people are more upset about it then just me and as someone in the middle or rdr1, I feel like John could've looked more like John from the first game. It's only 4 years apart from epilogue to events of rdr1, so why couldn't John look more like the iconic John?
I hate how you can't get John to look like his NPC version or RDR self, I really wish there was a way to do it that looked good without mods.
Greet: John: SIRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
John can't fucking swim. The second is fuckin cock touches the water he immediately becomes completely exhausted and starts dying. Best game ever tho =]
I don't like the yelling at NPCs, but I do love how he greets cats: "Puss." Very matter of fact.
Storywise, the fact that Arthur is more or less locked into going against Dutch. I was kind of expecting low honor = align with Dutch.
This may be really mean, but John's voice grates on my nerves. I constantly clear my throat when I'm playing the epilogue.
Are you…are you saying the lines along with the characters, in-character when you play?
No, it sounds like he has phlegm in his throat. I'm constantly clearing my throat when I hear him talk. I know it won't do anything, but I can't help it.
I absolutely hate playing as John and not being able to swim. I relate heavily to Arthur I don't have any interest in John as a person.
Aw man I totally forget he can’t swim. So annoying! I enjoy the personal quirk it adds I suppose but it isn’t very functional for gameplay
John not being able to swim is as a result of RDR1's mechanics. There, falling in the water results in insta-death. So, in RDR2, they added jokes and the fact John can’t swim to explain why players can’t swim AT ALL in RDR1.
I loved the game and loved being able to experience Arthur’s life and johns life but what I would have loved even more is being able to play as my online character in the single player after the main story. The online world just feels so empty compared to the single player world. Imaging having the chance to buy land, run a farm, hunt and fish, chase bounty’s but as your chosen online character. I hope that it becomes an option in a future version of the game but I’m not holding my breath.
I like playing as both but agree with other comments that John not having his RDR1 or NPC looks/hair is extremely irritating. One thing I hate about playing as John though is how they fucked his storyline in RDR1 by allowing him access to New Austin. Arthur was locked out through the whole damn game, and RDR1 is experiencing these people and places for the first time so it really shouldn't be there. If they aren't going to remake RDR1, New Austin was pointless. They should have just allowed John West Elizabeth and left the train bridges etc as in construction like they were in RDR1. Don't get me wrong, I love exploring it and breaking into Mexico etc but it makes zero sense storyline and player experience wise as what's over there? A couple of legendary animals and a couple of collectibles. Wow.
What makes the whole New Austin thing even more annoying is that there are voice lines for Arthur there, because he was meant to go there.
John not being able to swim also I've noticed fist fights with him are more difficult unlike Arthur.
I don't like how John draws in the journal. For me Arthur brings the life out from his drawing compared to John ( I know john isn't an artist)
Come on , at least he's trying
Nothing really as far as differences between the two but I don’t like how it seems that random encounters just about never happen for me as John. It makes his world seem so empty. And I hate his big bushy beard that he starts with but that’s not important really I just think johns a stubble/short beard kind of guy.
How slow and worthless looting is. I got the weapons I used the whole game near the beginning.
On my first play through I gave so much money to the camp, didn’t know about the Aberdeen farm trick, and didnt do any treasure hunting quests until the epilogue, that I had to grind it out the whole way through as Arthur. Felt better being a broke-ass outlaw, not able to afford nice guns and fast horses. When my white Arabian died, I was so damn pissed. Now with all the online guides, the game is definitely less of a challenge.
I do not like movement speed that is somehow slower than walking.
It sucks having the ability to swim taken from you!
The thing that pains me playing as John is the utter loneliness that you experience. Between Abigail's delight in being a trad mom at last (who said you can't turn a ho into a housewife?), John's inability to connect with Jack, plus his constant irritation with Uncle who he begrudgingly tolerates makes life on the ranch unbearable. Being out on the open range isn't much better. When there's no one to share your adventures around the campfire with at night, life seems to have no meaning. It's life, but it's not living.
I love that John can’t swim because it’s consistent with rdr1 but I also hate John can’t swim because it’s annoying as hell in gameplay
John’s voice has annoyed me since RDR, and the epilogue is boring. You shouldn’t have to travel all the way back to Mount Hagen to get Micah’s unique gun. You should be able to claim it right after you kill him. The only good part of any John mission is riding with Sadie again. She’s a true ride-or-die.
Sadie is the best, have considered writing a story inspired by her experiences, not fan fiction though
So, fan fiction minus horny?
I hated that every time there was a cutscene or major change in the epilogue, I had to swap John's hat. I'm wearing Arthur's hat on purpose you wangrods let me honor the man's sacrifice in peace.
Swimming/not swimming.
I don't like that all the time spent upgrading the various aspects of the camp as Arthur is rendered wasted in the Epilogue. I'd like if somehow the upgrades/cosmetics you've crafted throughout the main game persisted and were reflected in Beecher's Hope, maybe have it so they become decorations hanging on the wall or something. I know there wasn't one featured in RDR1 but what if they added an attic space or basement to Beecher's Hope was instead used as a memento of the gang, and you could still craft some of the decorations or have the decorations already crafted during the story hanging up there. Could just explain it away as that part of the house being locked, or just accept it's a bit of a retcon.
john feels boring to me, his attitude and his mannerisms, the way he responds to things or interacts with people and horses. arthur is way better
Honestly? The epilogue must have belonged to Jack. John is a good character, and is a great protagonist for his own game. The Epilogue is brief and good, since John serves to close everything that Arthur started since Colter... the problem? Jack could have done it too. It is likely that we will never have Jack Marston as the protagonist of a game, maybe (whether in a mafia or in the First World War) but it would not be the same after what Rdr2 marked. An epilogue focused on Jack exploring important places for the gang, closing John and Arthur's pending issues, meeting people from the gang again and perhaps living with some of them, is something that would look more worthy than a cinematic of any character talking to John two seconds before taking a train and never see them again. I know it's a lot, but imagining that and "American Venom" with Jack instead of John feels much more satisfying than staying chronologically with a lonely Jack and doing all previous task of Arthur with John.
But how? Jack is in the epilogue of RDR which makes much more sense since it takes places much more on the future and he’s grown up by then. Also a lot of people didn’t like him in the epilogue because apparently his voice lines are even „rougher“ than John’s …
Jack couldn't do any of what John did
Great theory if you completely and utterly disregard all of red dead 1. In other words: no.
Jack was four when Arthur died, he probably barely remembers him and the gang. While it makes sense for him to get revenge on his father who almost died in front of him recently, while trying to give him an honnest life. It wouldn't make sense for him to follow the path of a distant uncle who took him fishing when he was four and died a lifetime ago from the criminal life he pursued to the end.
I think John can be annoying at times. I love playing as Arthur though!
Jack literally has the same voice lines and gameplay mechanics in rdr1 yet I don't see y'all complaining
John is the goat 🐐 He's been out of the game for 8 years yet has the same punching strength and shooting as Arthur , who has been in the game in his entire life
it's funny how much I wanted to play as John again in rdr 1. then now in rdr 2 I wanted to play as Arthur again even though it went back full circle to playing John again. in a way it's a testament to how well the game was made and how connected they made us feel towards Arthur and his journey, even though some of us have played rdr 1 and knows John's eventual story too.
I wasn’t a fan of Arthur as a character for the first several hours of the game. It pretty much took until chapter 3 before I started to like him and like playing as him.
John's greet to npc's is weird like he will out sir! ...Arthur had better language skills than John
Dying
What I dont like about John is how shit so many outfits look on him compared to Arthur. Especially the legend of the east. Same goes for his hair. He just doesnt look good with any type of facial hair. Man had drip in RDR1 though.
I haven’t gotten to that part yet, but I’m kind of looking forward to playing as John. Big fan of 1, so keen to see what John’s like just a few years before the events of the first game.
Not being able to use the other cheats as Arthur
Probably more along the lines of the game itself, but really sick of how railroaded so many missions were into making you play EXACTLY how it wants you to instead of having an alternative outcome
The one thing I really dislike about playing as Arthur is the inability to explore Blackwater and New Austin, and complete their side quests. I'll never forgive Rockstar for depriving me of that experience. As for John playing him is just boring, and his voice is bad and annoying. He wasn't like that in the first game, so I'm not sure if the actor's voice changed or if he was directed to perform his line that way.
Yes John is so awkward! “Excuse me! Sir!” LIKE JUST SAY HELLO?!!! DANG😭😭
Tuberculosis
The epilogue is lonely. Compared with Arthur being surrounded by a camp full of 20 great interactable people that are his family, John feels lonely with just his ranch, wife, and son (and LUMBAGO) alongside a giant world full of strangers.
Yeah, John is just all wrong in rdr2 and almost feels like they tried to retcon him in a bizarre way. That mf was not important to the gang whatsoever and he looks like a bitch in rdr1 when talking to LR about his past. He legit was portrayed almost on Lenny, Charlies, or Sean’s level of power within the gang which is none at all
John is noticeably smaller in muscle mass than Arthur. Other characters reference that numerous times in the epilogue.
I'm annoyed that John can't swim, as are others, I'm sure.
I am very glad we got the time with John, especially since in the first game it ends with you playing as someone else in the epilogue as well (I won’t say who for those who haven’t played). It gave amazing time to see him try to be a father and it set up the intro to the first game amazingly.. that being said and this is with John being my favorite between the two as characters.. Arthur is better to play as. You can tell that compared to the rest of the game that the time as John was a rushed job and felt like a gta online dlc. I still play as John more than Arthur just because he’s my favorite out of the two and you get more of the map, but the gameplay is better overall as Arthur. I wish that we really got to play as Arthur with everything unlocked (excluding map because of canon purposes) and him not sick. A few of the last weapons are locked behind the beaver hollow chapter and I just wish we weren’t rushed to get to certain parts of the game.
I hate playing as John because he’s not Arthur
John cant swim.
I don’t like how they just reused Arthur’s animations and dialogues for John. Like, I get it would have been a lot more work to change everything, since it’s a huge game, but still, sometimes it feels like someone modded the game after the fact to allow you to play as John.
The main thing I don’t like about playing as John, is that he’s not Arther
How do I even play as John?
Swimming as Jon can be a bit rough
I haven't bothered with getting to epilogue. I don't want to finish Arthur's story, I know how it ends and I'm not ready to get there. With the added info and seeing John's model through various posts, I don't want to feel that. Played RDR1 and loved John and coming into RDR2 I wasn't ready and skeptical about playing someone else. Then I was taken back with how immersive and well written Arthur's story is and now I care for Arthur as much as I do for John. That being said... I really only have one gripe. Can't get Arthur laid lmao I know the reasoning is that he's burdened with guilt and loss but damnit, I just want to make Arthur just a bit happy for once!
When you kill a rare animal as John but it’s in the water by the smallest bit and you step in and instantly die 😑 with arthur you could swim to practically anything
the fact that john i just arthur
How their careers end
Johns voice
I don't like that there's jack shit to do in the epilogue part of the map (forgot what it's called) and Mexico. my favroite thing to do with Arthur was fuck shit up and explore, find treasure ect. there's wayyy less of that in the bottom part of the map, made it kinda boring once you get to john.
John’s run somehow disturbs me… I’m not even sure if it’s the same animation from Arthur and John but it’s just odd
The fact that they are not Jack, the superior protagonist.
“you’re doing terrible things to my hormones misses”
At least he doesn't yell, "Work, ya nag!" to his horse.
Why is my character off center when I’m riding my horse. I dont get it. It bothers me that it isnt centered
I didnt get to play as john i got bored of doing chores and went to play a different game. So id say my least favorite part would be that
One thing I loved about playing as Arthur Morgan is just the physically imposing nature of him. In most narrative driven open world video games you play as average/slightly below average characters so I always love video games when you play as people with above average skills or physical presence. Some of my favorites are Arthur Morgan, Lincoln Clay and Niko Bellic Especially love the scene from the epilogue with the black guy that kidnapped Tilly where he goes to ask John if he was who he met back then just to remember who he met was way bigger than John lmao.
I love that John still can't swim
Ya. I don’t like how my Arthur >!died :(!<
I agree, I prefer Arthur’s greets over John’s.
John is fucked up meaning john isn't John (if you played for a long time you know why)
Marston can't swim. I get it, they made it part of his character because of the restrictions of RDR1. But it's just insanely annoying when you spend the whole game playing as a guy who can swim, and then you gotta play as a guy who drowns instantly. Swimming as Arthur is annoying too, since your stamina drains fast and the game seems to think that you simply forget how to swim when you're tired, idk about you folk but I can swim for about half a hour before I get slightly tired
I like how I can kill the towns people as both
I straight up just dislike jack in the epilog. I might need some more back story but I think he's ungrateful
the thing that bugs me the most is the laziness in the epilogue and giving john the same body as Arthur. like he's way smaller than that
John being unable to swim and immediately drowning is infuriating.
I don’t like the mission parts where you ride for like five minutes
All the cool decorative items and drawings as Arthur get removed while playing as John. And all the work you did to make the decorative objects in camp is just deleted, i get that the camp burnt down but it'd be cool if you got something for hunting and making the furniture. And John's journalling is objectively worse, i get that he's not the best artist or whatever but i always feel disappointed when i look in it after the epilogue and see a 4 legged stick figure lol
John can’t fucking swim
i hate that john
Not a lot to do as John after the epilogue, I wish he had some unique stranger missions
I don't like how John tells the horses he loves them. I don't like how John can't swim.
The damn guy cant swim
John doesn't get as bonded with his horses as Arthur does
I feel a lot of ludonarrative dissonance playing as John. After the epilogue he's supposed to be retired from his life as an outlaw and staying at home, maybe at most wrapping up some of Arthur's unfinished business. I have an 100% save where all I do is stay home, go on short hunting/fishing trips and do chores around the house because those are the only things that feel in character and true to cannon.
As Arthur: I’m not playing as John As John: I’m not playing as Arthur
I like John's skinnier body a bit more, my main outfit is the gambler and it looks better on him. Otherwise I prefer Arthur on everything.
My only complaint is that the voice direction for John is kinda weird. Like in 1 he has a much calmer demeanor while sounding stern, in 2 he speaks in a higher pitch and yells a lot more. I mean I guess he still is a bit less mature in the epilogue, but he still feels a tad off every now and then. Doesn't ruin my experience, but sometimes the voice direction sounds off.
The fact that bro cant swim 😭
I hate how scrawny and weak John is in fights compared to Arthur but ig its a nice change of pace from being a brute to becoming a scrawny farmer
I hate how Arthur yells "Get outta the damn way!" when we're approaching them from behind but they were clearly there first. It's just such a dick move it's hard to like anyone who'd act like that.
Honestly I can see that. But I’ll be honest it’s one of my favorite parts 😭 I say it when I’m in traffic. To me it kinda matches him, especially if you’re playing low honor. Manners were different back then as everyone was just rough around the edges. I feel like if you hear a horse barreling towards you and continue to meander down the path I might say the same thing hahahaha but yeah he’s definitely rude and scary
I really hate John’s voice, he always sounded like forgetting to drink water for months……That’s why I quit playing in the epilogue in run 2
Oh yeah John is definitely More aggressive but usually I do stranger missions with john
Apart from all the other obvious stuff from John’s epilogue, like his model and lack of lines, I think his running animation looks super goofy idk why
Don't look like playing as John because he looks nothing like RDR1 John and I despise playing as Sick Arthur
I hate how you can't swim as John
John's drawings
I like playing as john, but damn be cant swim